I see so many problems in our current society from someone over 50
My discussion is about If your a poor Australian over 50 being told by job networks and employers that you probably will never work again as is the case for many,many people. You can't afford housing so you sleep on someones couch of in a car or under a bridge can afford 1 meal a day or if you do have housing can't afford electricity or gas, Then your afraid to go outside because of the multi-cultural gangs roaming the neighborhood,Are you better off going and committing a victim-less crime to spend in jail

If you get locked up, you do not get to choose your cellmate therefore you could end up getting put in with the thugs.

At least you will get a few square meals a day.

@Aussieboy, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 1:47:28 PM

The difference between poor but proud and independent Australian and a jailbird is that the latter has no self respect and is dependent on others while constantly blaming society for his/her own decisions.

100,000 homeless I believe. That can be turned around subject to no drugs.

Salvos and see if they can help the homeless person get off the street.

http://www.salvationarmy.org.au/en/find-help/

What about a country town where the living is much cheaper and easier for all sorts of reasons and s/he can grow food for subsistence and independence?

MATE LOCK ME UP

THEY FEED YA entertain ya educate ya
ya spends ALL DAY DOING WHAT YOU LIKE[IF IN PROTECTION]..WITH THE OTHER CHILD Perverts..you CONT NEED TALK TO ANYONE

i hate talking to REAL PEOPLE..SINCE I GOT LOCKED up i pyt myself under home detention/dont speak audibly to no one/jail is fun/the only people i meet IN JAIL ARE Scum..[mainly the resut of proTECTION ORSERS THEIR MATES OR LOVED ONES..got talked into having put on THEM BY COURTS

THEY FIX YOUR TEETH/THEY Educate you entertaIN YOU
FORGET OLD Peoples homes its better in jAIL

On the beach...

your missing one key point. Technology advancement catches out those born between 1950s to right this very moment. Its fine for us who had the chance or opportunity to keep up with the flow, however there are still many Australians still having trouble with centrelink computer's and the elderly are having the hardest time of it.

While most of us are in tune with the global situation, that 100.000 homeless is going to increase as the have gots hold the course of events, which the whole world knows just too well. Japan USA, UK,etc...are seeing more people displaced as our political systems bend under the strain...hence like I've said before...( We have never had this many people on the planet before)..and the fall out of displaced people will continue.

I guess the rich will just have to count the numbers, and in the mean time, enjoy the human meat grinder......and try not to worry when they are forced to (hold you up) while their bodies on the streets gets in your way...hence why most have to go to jail in the first place.

People of the world are making a very dangerous situation for themselves and the problem falls squarely on (too fast too soon)

Remember, the human race has only just taken off its baby boots....try and keep that in mind.

KAT

To 'Onthebeach' and 'Under One God' and others -

Clearly classist oppression and a common desire to 'kick at the poor and underprivileged when down' is still in fashion for the wealthier classes of Australia to engage in.

Such behaviour makes me wonder whether the same bunch often play 'spot & mock the down-syndrome person’s cross-eyed look" and "impersonate-mock the uneducated-dumb sounding speech of the retarded persons" or maybe "spot the 'Koori-Bogan' at centerlink"

I HOPE NOBODY is ACTUALLY considering that so
me difference actually exists between 'poor white' and 'poor black'.

On that note, I wonder if the class-twit idiots holding this view understand that the same mockeries and same characteristics of the poor white person in jail freely bashed for laughs [poor speech, poor education, no teeth, stupidity] are identically and abundantly found in the thousands of "POOR INDIGENOUS Australians" who also end up in and out of prison all their lives often for identical reasons to the white person's case.

These descriptions describe the average Indigenous Australian as well as poor white Australians ALIKE whether in jail or not.

Does the intention then to mock, demoralize, strip of ALL sense of worth which is directed to the white group . . . ALSO KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY apply to and encompass the Indigenous inmates?

Within that 'sticky, muddled and awkward world that is your mind" KNOW THIS -

Your logic and actions REVEAL you to be a racist, a bigot and prejudice person of all manners.

Just because you hide (even from your own mind's explicit sense) all forms of that prejudiced thinking and beliefs other than those involving the white race but especially the 'poorer white classes' . . .

. . . your guilt and extreme increasing population of actual committed crimes of elitism/prejudice Acts . . . IS NOT DISSOLVED or dismissed BUT in fact when one day ALL is revealed to ALL clearly, your now hidden acts will become seen to be "VIOLENT murderous racist/classist inhumanness'.

@Jottiikii, Wednesday, 16 April 2014 11:04:06 PM

Why do some indigenous communities thrive? Why do some indigenous grasp the opportunities, especially in education and employment and get on with their lives?

If you need a victim excuse for dependency you are welcome to it. Your monkey, your back and your wasted life.

Prisoners are getting looked after better than pensioners, especially when it comes to health services. They also get pretty good access to education if they so choose.
Dental care in prison appears to be exceptional in comparison to the outside.

I have often touched on this subject with mates. We agree that if you reach 70 or 80, and run out of money, you might as well rob a bank.

You will at best, getaway with it, or at worst go to jail where you receive three squares a day, a bed and, as a bank robber at 80, probably a hero.

It's a sad story, but there is some truth in it because as an old age pensioner, either you've done well and get no support in return for your efforts, or, you leave your dignity at the door and prepare for a life of neglect, or at least the remainder of it.

Many pensioners must scratch their heads and ask themselves, why did I bother.

A wasted life......See people like Tony abbit..hence the reality of just a bit of thinking, while in school, (he had dreams very much like our new leaders of tomorrow), and playing as a child, he never gave one thought, like all of us at that age........ he forgets:)( as a child)the men and women which made his life possible, and yet, the same people that welcomed him into the world, now little tony also makes the same people work from the cradle to the grave.

I got this from a patriot or pensioner from central station in Sydney. He put so much life and tax into the country, he sat there and told me his complete life story, while little tony played in his sandbox, not thinking of the man that passed him in the streets so many years ago, with a smile on his face, not thinking of the times to come as he spoke from his heart, embracing his morning newspaper and the old Holden his so loved and cherished.

Shame TONY Shamed...how soon we forget......that old man died three weeks later.

Maybe our new leaders should forget about you.....When your no longer useful.....

KAT

YOU/KNOW..its..getting harder.to get into jail
the more of us..in the know..we'll..we need more prisons
[but not..inc/private prisons/thei'r...run by the marfia/for the marfia/much/lie..THE RENDITION CAMPS..where they hold/flight..mhf79

the evil..goings/on.in them is/true-torture/really
its sadists..wanting you..to spend up big..in their shop./work/till..you/drop..[or we sold your organs]

your/superannuation..holds many of them
BECAUSE..by private prisons..you get free labour/no unions/NO OVERSIGHT.YOU/get to run protection rackets..and get thieves and other working..FOR YOU/FOR PENNIES...

proper/GOVT..only..MUST RUN...THE PRISON SYSTEM
but..there is a certain kismet..in sending the private
imprisoned worker system broke..[its plan a for the elites]work-camps/for us..intergenarational entitlement..to the few.

arjay/quote..<<>.This pre-occupation..with illegals is a just a distraction.from the real game of looting..our economies and keeping us peasants subjugated>>
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16224&page=0

see how they sell suburbia..tO US..
in sitcoms/train coppers by cop shows..JUDGES-JUDIES
..YES-MINISTERS/..CYBIL/PUBLIC Service etc

see./by media..we have bought into the dream..instead of family we are 'the team'..or the state..or the nationality..or the sex..or the skin..GROUP/MOB..

my point is we are all..being made over into clones..
ONE BRUSH...TARS US ALL../WE ARE...ALL SINNERS/WE ARE..ALL IMMIGRANTS.

we are all children
of the one..most holy l0ving/living/merciful wholly spirit.

how to explain..to loved ones..whats going/down globally
as they give us foodstamps or subsistence dole/work-casualisation

where most half/govt income..goes back direct
to some capitalist..landlord/tax free off shored trust..stealing govt bailout cash
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16206&page=0

[we ARE SEEING REAL ESTATE UP AGAIN IN IRELAND..yet still 5000 ghost estates..they bought up pennies in the pound..stand empty

but/what if..we could..get cash/from govt via rent assistance for immigrants ..nice sure govt cash-flow..to fill to fill the capitalist bill..dole/rent assistance..

[yet more drain/from the public purse..filled only by selling more public services..[privatizations..of govt income streams..or by ever more sin taxes or fees fines revenue access charges/other increases in govt theft..[read tax burden]

WE ARE SEEING HOUSES GO UP/..YET/SEEING EVICTIONS AND REPOSSESSIONS..homeless joblessness broken homes..go up to

THEN..HUGE GOVT..bailout/mates..with TAX ADVANTAGED FIRMS CREATING THE NEXT INVESTMENT BOND..bubble..[bunded RENTED HOUSING]...damm caps..ie the next bubble[rental houses paid for immigrants via dole payments]

its a hidden bailout/
THE GROWTH MODEL DEMANDS
but..ONLY PUTS further NON PRODUCTIVE/Burden on us...ALL .GLOBALLY..
http://rss.infowars.com/20140417_Thu_Alex.mp3

i wish people would..get the facts
http://whatreallyhappened.com/node
GIVE THINGS A REST
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16225&page=0

I can't agree with you on this one rehctub. I'm a pensioner, & I think the pension is quite generous.

As a late starter, I was only getting rid of the kids when I retired, & didn't have time to build up much of a bankroll. So it's a matter of "I spent my money on the kids, so now YOU must pay", & I think you pay handsomely.

I have some assets, but fortunately I've been here over the mandatory 20 years, so the property doesn't count as an asset. Very fortunately actually, as about the only way you could earn a living growing stuff on 20 acres around here would be to grow pot, & I'm not into that. It was fine for a few horses, but not much use agriculturally.

I don't feel forgotten ORIGINS OF MAN, in fact I feel damn lucky to have the taxpayer keep me while I still enjoy my property, the last couple of kids old horses still around, & my old cars.

I came back to Oz in 77 with effectively stuff all. You couldn't sell a business in PNG at that time, every one was getting out. In 20 years I was worth over a million, so it was not too hard.

If it weren't for councils, I could be worth a couple more. If I could split off half a dozen 2 acre blocks, as I could just 8 years ago, I'd be right out of your wallet for ever, but for some ratbag greenie rubbish, I must now keep this place as "private open space".

So fair is fair I suppose. If the people of Brisbane want control of my property, they have to pay for the privilege with my pension, even if it is only a few ratbags that want, or even know it. They are not allowed on it, they can only look at it. However for the greenie ratbags, the fact that they control what I can do with my property, bought & paid for by me, is enough to answer their wet dreams.

This thread raises an important issue: why does anyone, old or young, have to live on the streets in the first place, in our 'welfare' for everyone society?
Is it truly by necessity, or is it at least partly by choice - possibly because of drug, alcohol and tobacco dependence whittling away at any welfare provision to such an extent that there isn't enough left over to cover modest shared accommodation as well as modest food and clothing needs?
Surely there can't be many choosing to hoard their welfare payments - for whatever purpose - or who simply prefer to live the life of a vagabond (and do who knows what with their welfare, giving it to church or charity perhaps, or to their kids)?
And surely there can't be many who fail to apply for welfare?
Or can there be many who simply don't qualify for welfare - and if so, why don't they qualify?

Or is welfare provision simply totally insufficient? (Though very many seem to get by on it.)

I don't have a problem with the provision of welfare (aged, sickness, unemployment, disability, veteran, education assistance, rental assistance, and the like) - as long as it's for those truly in need.
But why anyone, and particularly the young, would have to live on the street is a mystery to me. (Or is there a lot of bs and misinformation going on?)
(Surely no severely disabled would be living on the street - apart from the occasional 'nutter'?)

I have friends who worked all their lives and saved enough to buy a home - while raising three daughters - and now get by on the aged pension, including running a car and providing some assistance to the kids. Also, one of their unmarried daughters with 4 kids gets by on welfare in rented accommodation.
If these and others can do it, and with their dignity intact, why can't everyone else who is out of, or past, or incapable of, work?

Well 100000 homeless in Australia atm, 1 in 7 people living below poverty line, charities turning away 2/3 of people, 10000 people had to have electricity cut off so far this year ( could not find total figures) So yea I think we have a bigger problem brewing, And I don't see any of the major players addressing these problems and can only see them getting worse

In that case Aussieboy it is time to forget the "dignity" of those welfare recipients, & manage their welfare for them.

If they are not capable of keeping enough in the bank to pay the power bill, the rent or other fixed costs, perhaps they would be better off if the money to pay these things was withheld from them, & used to pay their bills for them.

Just in passing, have you noticed most of these people, who can't manage on their welfare have a mobile phone, a car, & don't shop for clothes at Lifeline/St Vincent de Paul shops. In places like Byron bay you will find many of them riding the best of surfboards.

I don't mind anyone, even welfare recipients, choosing their own priorities in spending, so long as they don't then want a second dip into taxpayers funds.

Still I can't help wondering sometimes, how many prospective employers the surfer boys & girls on newstart, find out in the break.

Aussieboy,
I agree we're looking at an increasing problem there but, how many homeless are homeless because they simply do not like any discipline & pulling their own weight ? I'm not denying that there are genuine cases of people getting a rough trot but out of those 100000 my guess is no more than 2-5% could be considered genuine. The rest is choice, choice of the aformentioned.

.....In that case Aussieboy it is time to forget the "dignity" of those welfare recipients, & manage their welfare for them.

Hasbeen, you hit the nail on the head. Welfare IS A GIFT and should be quarantined and provided via a special debit card whereby selected items/purchases simply can't be made.

I lost count of the number of customers who presented a salvos voucher for meat, yet had a slab of beer and smokes in their trolley.

Now before anyone gets on the 'it's not fair to decent people ' band wagon, let me tell you, decent people who receive welfare assistance, appreciate it and respect the fact that a tax payer has gone to work to provide it, because after all, it's only fair that the payee receives value for their contribution.

At the end of the day, when stupid governments raise the age of dependance on parents, the kids get kicked out of home earlier.

Now they are wanting to make it even harder for these youth find work with their lowering of the adult wage age. Just plain incompitance on display yet again.

individual/residual/quote..<<.<<..how many homeless are homeless because they simply do not like any discipline>>

most of the ones i met
they want nuthing from govt!

resent having to sign/ie self incriminate paper into contract

ya see the ones who signed ..app-lied..to get the dole
[see our founding documents ..SORT OF PROVIDE A PENSION/DUTY OF CARE FOR BARSTARDS/ person under the protection of an act/an act is a conditional offer/that gives permissions to that other wise unlawfull to do

ie if in life its not allowed/on paper by begging [Applied means beg]..a beggar gets for that he begs

ie BOUND UP IN PAPER/you create a legal person/on paper/under the act

<<..& pulling their own weight ?>>

yes they take nothing from no one
of course some prefer to openly beg..others not
but the litle they dont got thery didnt take from you

<<>. I'm not denying that there are genuine cases of people getting a rough trot but out of those 100000 my guess is no more than 2-5% could be considered genuine.>>

yes condemn the 100,000 because 20 doing the wroing thing
by this new law/..lets lock up all public servants all cops all judges all doctors all nurses all kids..[no hang on they all got lawyers//but not the kids

ok you can bust and criminalize the kids
but not the bankers govt or no other big to big to fail
well its time they were let fail..
http://rss.infowars.com/20140418_Fri_Alex.mp3

before they make us all homeless..knock us off
with disease/poison..in the water over night/how many could that kill ya dill..THERY GONE TO FAR WANT TO STAY OUT OF JAIL/DONT WANT TO GIVE UP THEIR STOLEN PLUNDER

bail out the top/..to big to fail../
in the top down system..

*the value comes..from the base.

<<..manage their welfare for them.>>
<<Hasbeen, you hit the nail on the head...>>

YES
not..FROM THE TOP DOWN

so..YOU CLAIM YOU OWN IT...PROVE IT..
TILL THEN YOUR ALL ON THE ONE SAME DOLe/...everyone..till the paper work gets properly done
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0#178808
oops you have to...finish writing .the new law
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=0

Sorry OUG too hard!

rehctub,

I don't understand one under god's posts, but he is a Legend. I appreciated the link he gave to the article about Alana Johnson, a bike squad officer with the Qld Police.

Now if others could flag similar links in the future, please.

uog,
stop doing a Foxy, Poirot, david f to me. :-)

<<..Sorry OUG too hard!
Posted by rehctub,>>

3what being called to witness
or write out how much the base dole would need be[to be seen as fair for you..if govt took all your wealth/till you..[ok every signle one of US]...pass muster..[IE HAVE THAT WE ARE MEANT..TO HAVE

PLEASE CLARIFY/WHEN YOU WERE TALING ABOUT OTHERS YOU SEEMED SO SURE
WE NEED LEADERS..few are chosen

<<>.uog,
stop doing a Foxy, Poirot, david f to me. :-)
Posted by individual,>>

NOT SURE WHAT YOUR SAYING INDY
BUT THOSE ARE 3 VERY SPECIAL PEOPLE..im proud if we are on the same page..re you..[not that i have a clue whast your saying[but if you want to be witness 5 just turn up 6 may

onthebeach,..<<I don't understand one under god's posts>>
ITS THE PROSICTIONS ADVICE REGARDING MY COURT CASE
FOR SMOKING A JOINT/ON NEW YEARS EVE

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0#178808

<<>>I appreciated the link he gave to the article about Alana Johnson, a bike squad officer with the Qld Police.>>

shes a cutie/but has a mean streak[her handcuffs are offset 90 degrees]..and HAVNT BEEN USED MUCH..as they cut into my wrist's
and if she was driving drives too fast in car parks/ie the lockup circuit..never the less its the first arresting officer that was deliberately cruel..[showing off..to alana].he performed a docters technique/test...a docter may/have used....but ito ascertain if i was dead. wasnt..and he sure aint no docter..[ie ..tit was abused in his hands/he will need be in court to ascertain who taught him this abuse/my guides suggest he is former vet...or he might yet prove to be a certain blogger

<<Now if others could flag similar links in the future, please.>
just be careful she is the real officer/and her real work-number
i believe she may have been the first polite officer/but we will see in court

Whats too hard OUG is your posts. What I don't understand is one day you post in plain simple English, then next in riddles.

As for whats a fair amount for the dole, I would suggest a few levels, one for those who have had a job and paid tax (to a certain amount) and ones who have never worked.

As for the amount, the dole should never be paid in cash and at best it should buy the very basics, no grog, no ciggs and certainly no gambling money.

Its a GIFT and those who gift it should receive value for their money.

Its not just the dole of cause, as its a sad world when some single mum can live quite well simply by having four kids, often to four different fathers. Same applies for one of the dads if they hang around, as all of a sudden they find themselves often better off not working. Our out dated welfare system is over due for an overhaul.

oug,
I'm afraid I have to agree with rehctub on your posts. Why such absurd phrases, why not write in normal english ?
As for pensioner vs Prisoner, I believe that the whole system is totally idiotic. Most pensioners have worked for some 40 or more years & have paid adequate taxes, prisoners on the other hand have not, they cost us in damages, court costs, destroy neighbourly trust, cost us in theft, the list is endless.
Yet, for some inexplicably idiotic mentalities doing the rounds in society, prisoners are better looked after & at greater cost. One of the factors for this is that prisons are not a deterrent & even less of a punishment hence so many return prisoners.
Now with talk about retirement age going up to 70 things will worsen for many blue collar workers.
It should not be age that stipulates retiremnt, it should be how many years worked. The other one is that some office workers are not as physically worn as blue collar workers & they can quite easliy go to 70 whereas a tired blue collar worker will not last till 70 & his pension contribution will most likely not go to his dependents.
I have started in trade work at 14 & have hardly ever had a break & I'm tired & ready to put up my feet but I still have two years to go. I know bureaucrats who retired at 55 or 58 or 60 & can take things easy courtesy of the taxpayer.
I also know people who are now on a pesion yet they'd never experienced work because they've manged to be on unemployment benefits for decades & no authorities have ever questioned their unemployment. One of them is actually getting a pension supplement from having been employed for 4 years in Europe in his young days. He's been laughing at the system for 40 years & now he gets looked after by our tax dollars.
So, as to Pensioners vs Prisoners I'd say the crook ones got the better deal.

indies/quote..[post-limits]..<<..oug,..I'm afraid...I have to agree..with rehctub/on your posts..Why..such absurd phrases,..why not write./in normal english?>>

A BLOKE..I KNEW/ONCE..SAID..YOU\WRITE..LIKE YOU SPEAK..[I KNEW.. NO ENLISH..[WE WERE IN THE MOREWELL RESETTLEMENT GULAG]..before age 5
BEGAN STATE SCHOOL..

HAD/TO LEARN ENGLISH..TILL GRADE 3..by age/ten..i had to..relearn my mother TONGUE..tilL..my folks..ran away again..at thirteen...WHERE I BEGAN..HIGH-SCHOOL..in englash..yet again

so dear/brother..forgive/me
the\bother/..of explaining..my..ongoing pain/ever again

<<I believe..that..the whole\system..is totally idiotic.>>

me too

<<>.Most pensioners.have worked f..or some 40..or more years..& have paid adequate taxes,>>

no
know..they pay..*way too much..'taxes'..
all..taxation..should be gone..and a\only..a transaction fee..lives on

<<..prisoners...thon the other hand>>
they/too..paid their taxes/just like you*

but they live.-in poverty patches..like i used to
they pay sin taxes..and rent assistance..to landlords/
you clearly never thought..about how much govt/LARGESS..IS IMMEDIATELY GRABBED BACK

YOU PAY..LESS THAN..A SMOKER..OR..even..A DRUNK

LIVE WITH THAT..SIMPLe FACT
THE RICH.AVOID PAYING ANY TAX..most in prison..paid..as they earned...many a tax..just/like..you..but..we/are doubly..screwed

so/bully..take that back
]
<<>they cost./us\..in damages,>>

some have cost..'us'..petty damages
but..most..[the majority].have not.

<<..court costs.>>is..a nice lurk..
steady income..for legal aid lawyers..only/there to guide 'guilty-plea' deals

[a lawyer....is ALWAYS regarded...as a servant/of the court\..there to see..they[we].dont waste..court time

its/ALL..about revenue raisinG/filling private\Prison quotas/drug fines bring..in one billion/REVENUE..[of course/most DOpes pay ya freaking court cost.IN WASTED LIFE]

<<..destroy neighborly trust,>

govt did that..bY declaring..a war
on drug users/lying ABOUT SMOKERS

<<..cost us in theft,>>

GOVT SHOULD RESTORE..THE GOODS STOLEN..IN FULL
ONCE THEY HEAR ITS GONE...GOVT SIMPLY REPLACES IT.PROBLEM SOLVED

SOME THIEVE..'tour/goods'..ONLY TO PAY OFF PRISON.inured/DEBT
OTHERS..trying..TO PAY COURT COSTS..then..YET OTHERS to pay..their own lawyer/who always..gets em off

its a scam..if someone steals ya car/govt
can..just give ya a new one..but if ya lie..ya do..*big time

<<..the list is endless>>

yes..instead of fining..for the..'offence'
/the ticket is..a ORDER/bill/that fixes the issue

<<...Yet,for some ..nexplicably idiotic mentalities..doing the rounds in society,..prisoners are..better looked after..& at greater cost.>>

thats because..of the..MARFI/kickback system
its..totally corrupt bluey..[RUM-CORPSE]

<<..It should/not be...age that stipulates retiremnt>>

to right..just as its..the family/race/group]culture..
that should pay...for the crime/DAMMAGES..of the crime
one punishment for repeat offence=expulsio.

case closed

we begin..with govT/Public SERVICE/lawyers..then..fully audit their assets..at retirement/\white colar crime..must be policed/and punished

http://rss.infowars.com/20140420_Sun_Alex.mp3

Posted by one under god, Monday, 21 April 2014 11:45:21 AM

I will let that one go through to the keeper as well, just too much like hard work for me. Sorry!

onethebeach –

Just as many individuals and communities of poorer white Anglos have successful businesses and working lives. Sadly however, as with all peoples but more so with the Indigenous and poorest Anglo communities, many often do not “thrive”.

You can ponder the reasons for this failure all you like, it will not alter the facts.

First, as I said many poor whites do get on with it, BUT the key difference is: (i) the poor whites do not have the legal, social and political recognition as being in need of assistance, whereas the indigenous peoples do receive much official assistance not to mention the widespread media support for their plight.

Yet both groups are of very similar underprivileged and need the same help, that is only when the poorest whites of “housing estates” etc. are considered as a group on their own separate to the rest of white Australia.

“If you need a victim excuse for dependency you are welcome to it”. . .

Jeez, that sounds remarkably similar to something that would normally be imagined to be from some 2GB “shock jock” or perhaps a Ruphert Murdock or such.

Tell me, what makes the poorest and most underprivileged peoples from white Anglo Australia so different to all the other “underprivileged groups” and peoples in the world?

Where does this strong hatred and animosity come from?

I bet this hatred and mistreatment is the way the poorest in India and other Asian places, get treated by the wealthier of those lands.

And the disparity in India is revolting.

Yet I am sure your kind must think alike with the overlords who keep those millions oppressed and caged . . .

. . . 'stop looking for excuses and stop complaining'.

<<..I will let that one go through...to the keeper as well,
just too much like hard work..for me..Sorry!
Posted..by rehctub>>..TYPICAL*

no worries/you should try living it
it is the best i can be bothered explaining..it..cause i DONT GET SARCASM.

oh dont get me wrong...i can give it..but getting it..[why bother you wouldnt comprehend it..anyhow/or more likely simply chose to ignore it..

Jottiikii<<>.Sadly however,..as with all peoples but more so with the Indigenous and poorest Anglo communities,...many often do not “thrive”.>>

FOR SIMPLE REASON..limited acces to truth
limited access to credit..limited access to helpers who wont become exploiters..or favour a few..to the hurt of the majority.

<<..many poor whites..do get on with it,>>
as do many poor blacks/but blacks need to 'get on with it'..simply to survive
whiote[usuing your term]..have a system/the old schhool tie
they pick an outcast darky/make im into cocconut[black outside white inside]..wearing the old school tie thans be to that special assistance/RHOdes scollar..and set to work impoverishing the landless dispossesed darkies

we see the same now in usa
http://rss.infowars.com/20140421_Mon_Alex.mp3

<<>.BUT the key difference is:..(i)..the poor>>>
of all colours and shades..<<>.do not have the legal,..social and political recognition>>

nor righht..<<..as being in need of assistance,..whereas the indigenous peoples..do receive much official assistance..not to mention the widespread media support for their plight.>>

now hang on gungadin..mate..the farmers got their own tv shows/the markettteers get their vieuws/but who give a damm about the rest of em[the ants]..the media is owned by the rich/THE Courts are run by the rich..its not rocket science

would you rather be here with the rich
or down there with them..poor fools paying..for our free lunch.?

<<>.Where does this strong hatred and animosity come from?>>
GUILT/..YOUR ANCESTORS STOLE THEIR WEALTH

YES THAT INBRED/GUILT/..<<kind must think alike..with the overlords who keep those millions oppressed and caged..>>

ITS JUST/WE LIKE..THE NICE THINGS
IF WE ALL HAVE..the nice things that work/why would anyone need sell out the children of the one father?

<<..'stop looking..for excuses/to keep stealing the life-blood from your poor
<<..and stop complaining'.>>they got no clue of the evil you guys do.

http://www.arunjain.com/jokes/Shit_-_A_Bird_Story.htm

hint hint

I DONT THINK IM RISING JAIL
IN court tomorrow
court 20 brisbane maji strait/curt/stanley st
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=10

this thread will get special mention[the first will be the last]
but the sphyc ward is even better*..ANYONE WHO WILL REPAIR THE DAMAGE THE GOVT WAR ON ME HAS DONE

FROM MUTUILATING MY TEETH/to aLIANATING ME FROM MY PEERS
TO THE 22 YEARS of self imposed home detention/even land rights rates a mention as just fair compensation.

HE WAS TOSSINg up 'jail'..[i said yes pleasE]
TO GET MY Teeth fixed

and
..BECAUSE..spers has a lien on my DomuseIL
HE MUST HAVE HEARD IT..CAUSE HE THEN SAID 300..

THOUGHT MESSAGED ME
SPERS WILL be in contact/
then you raise that..at that case]
SUE THEM FOR THE ONGOING HARASSMENT.
[when i get the leter I WILL POST IT

OH WELL so..i NEED TO SUE SPERS//
I AWAIT THEIR OPENINg offer
[anything is aN OFFER..the seconD YOU GET THE BILL..thats the opening of a contract]

then i must get arround..to fix the cause of my teeth issUES
8 COURT CASES ?

SO FIX ME OR FIX THE WORLD/WHICH ONE IS WINNABLE

To bring this back on-topic, just for a moment, the question raised is "Is it better to be an old poor Australian or a Prisoner?"

The rationale being that prisoners are better fed and cared for than some pensioners. This makes the argument entirely about the economics of the elderly, given that no-one would choose jail if they were able to look after themselves financially.

So it occurs to me that the question is really about the value of freedom.

Put crudely, would you trade your freedom for a life where you had none. More importantly, would you commit a crime sufficiently heinous to incarcerate yourself for the rest of your life - if not, would you be better off after your release?

Alternatively, we could simply rephrase the question as "are we comfortable living in a society where the elderly are less well provided for than the criminal classes." That would at least allow us to debate what the phrase "provided for" means in this context. Because it quite quickly reverts to the same freedom/non-freedom question.

Clearly the optinum way to care for the elderly in a manner that society can afford is to consign them to a facility that operates along exactly the same lines as a prison, but without the pejorative context. Communal facilities, spartan surroundings, no choice of neighbour/next meal/recreation etc.

Personally, I'd opt for freedom. Every time.

IF WE DECENTRALIZED PRISONS.[ sorry duty of care homes/rather than bulk housing/we coulD EMPTY THE VICTIMLESS CRIME AND Insert intensive ong term care into jail.where the prisoners gain freedom by giVING QUAIlTY OF LIFE SERVICE/UNDER MONITORING 24/7

PUT long term care into jails?

IT SI BE FUNNy/im living with a gob of retted teeth
but will SOMEHOW MAYBE DIE WITH BETTER THAN I CAN use today

life assurance..raTHER THAN IN-SURE-TRANCE

Sorry OUG, but I think you've lost it. Your recent posts on several threads, with all your references to court and jail and teeth and the USA's world dominance conspiracy, are a bit off the air.
Time to get a grip?

Pericles,

The cost of aged care is a real worry, as well as the shortage of quality care places.
Could it be that salary costs are just too high - based on all the current demands for qualifications?
Perhaps the 'right kind' of carers, sans 'qualifications' could do just as good a job, but without the skyrocket wages?
(Of course the mighty buck, the profit motive, comes into all of it as well. No-one does much 'for love' anymore.)

And skyrocketing land and building costs also come into it - for aged-care facilities, and for the elderly to have been able to purchase their own home, or else then to rent in their retirement.
I feel our governments should provide much more affordable quality care for the elderly - and a lot more affordable housing in general.

As for the aged pension, is it sufficient - given current general living costs?

> "are we comfortable living in a society where the elderly are less well provided for than the criminal classes." <

Are they really less well provided for?
If so, what might be needed to correct any deficiency?

That's confusing matters even more, Saltpetre.

I was merely suggesting that the opening question might be more adequately phrased as...

>>are we comfortable living in a society where the elderly are less well provided for than the criminal classes.<<

...using the writer's own premise that a) prisoners have their every need catered for while b) pensioners are left to fend for themselves.

So when you then ask...

>>Are they really less well provided for?
If so, what might be needed to correct any deficiency?<<

...you are questioning the opening poster's starting position.

Sadly, I can't help you with that, as the point I was trying to make had to do with the value of freedom to control one's own destiny. I certainly don't actually believe that we should herd them into homes and treat them like prisoners, if that was worrying you.

It does of course leave open the question as to what exactly is the responsibility of "society" in this context. Tasks and responsibilities that used to be the unquestioned lot of family are now assumed to devolve onto the State.

Why should this necessarily be the case?

Pericles, you raise a very good question.

>It does of course leave open the question as to what exactly is the responsibility of "society" in this context. Tasks and responsibilities that used to be the unquestioned lot of family are now assumed to devolve onto the State.

Why should this necessarily be the case?<

In your previous post you also offered an 'optimal' suggestion, but then voted against it:

>Personally, I'd opt for freedom. Every time.<

I opt for freedom too - but I'm not sure how long I (and many others) will be able to maintain it, as I/we descend into frailty and ultimately the probability of alzheimers/dementia and incognitum.

I have no children, no wife, and only a small family group with their own lives to lead - so I'm really on my own recognizance, and getting on.
There must be many in the same or similar position, or worse.

My brother and I had to put our mother and father into aged-care towards the end of their lives. It was a distressing choice, and even more distressing reality. The wounds of caring for an age-disabled parent, at home and in a 'facility' leave scars.
It's reasonable having home-care, meals-on-wheels and visiting nurse, but it's still not great - but quality nursing home care is really scarce, and even the best is not 'ideal'.
As a mate said "when I can't wipe my backside, I want out".

Society's responsibility?
Our fortunate society of 'entitlement' has evolved to provide all manner of welfare, including the aged pension, home nursing and government-supported nursing homes, and various NGO's and charities also chip in (some very substantially).
We are 'the Lucky Country', but some feel it's still not doing enough.

Around the world many do with much less, and a lack of real freedom causes much conflict, turmoil and despair.
Even so, I feel we should have better aged-care, nursing homes and affordable housing.
Better 'sharing' appears the only avenue - with the well-off (everywhere in the world) putting more into the 'kitty'.
We've moved too far forwards to go back now.

saLTY PETER/QUOTE..<<Better 'sharing' appears the only avenue - with the well-off (everywhere in the world) putting more into the 'kitty'.
We've moved too far forwards to go back now>>

i jusT BEEN READING up on tonineE..the basis of 'PENSION/SCAMS'[EXCUSE FOR EXTRA TAXATION..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine

Each investor pays a sum into the tontine. Each investor then receives annual dividends on his capital. As each investor dies, his or her share is reallocated among the surviving investors. This process continues until only one investor survives.

Each subscriber receives only dividends;
the capital is never paid back.*

There are strictly speaking four different roles in the transaction: (1) the government or corporate body which organizes the scheme*, receives the loans and manages the capital; (2) the subscribers who provide the capital; (3) the shareholders who receive the annual dividends; and (4) the nominees on whose lives the contracts are contingent.[3]

In most 18th and 19th-century schemes, parties 2-4 were the same individuals; but in a significant minority of schemes each initial subscriber-shareholder was permitted to invest in the name of another party (generally one of his or her own children), who would inherit that share on the subscriber's death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine#Uses_and_abuses
Sometimes the names in (4) were famous people such as kings and queens. This eased the problem of death-verification and also reduced the risk of murder etc. to improve one's chances.Because younger nominees clearly had a longer life expectancy, the 17th and 18th-century tontines were normally divided into several "classes" by age (typically in bands of 5, 7 or 10 years): each class was effectively a separate tontine, with the shares of deceased members devolving to fellow-nominees within the same class.

In a later variation, the capital devolves upon the last survivor, so dissolving the trust and usually making the survivor very wealthy. It is this version that has often been the plot device for mysteries and detective stories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine#Popular_culture