To be screened on Sunday, April 20,

<SBS Tales of the Unexpected asks Who’s your daddy?
..
The show, which forms part of SBS’s Tales of the Unexpected series, compares rates of paternity uncertainty in Australia and the United States, and follows parents and children as they discover the truth behind who their father really is.

The survey draws a sharp parallel to a 1972 UK study which found one in three children was not related to the man they called dad.

According to the recent findings up to 30 per cent of Aussie women admitted to having had sex with more than one man in a single month.
..>
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/sbs-tales-of-the-unexpected-asks-whos-your-daddy/story-fnet085v-1226877662142

This should be a revealing program. There is a feminist 'gender ethicist' (?!) who has often said that it shouldn't matter to a man whether he is the biological father or not and he should welcome responsibility if nominated as the dad, or is in a relationship. On the other hand, feminists and women are adamant that it is of crucial importance that a mother has her child because they experience an entirely different and deep bonding. That is why baby mix-ups at hospitals although rare receive the shock, horror treatment, and demands for millions in compensation.

A mix-up in paternity and false paternity are the stuff of jokes, but a mix-up of mums is dreadful and reprehensible, not funny at all.

So what thoughts from OLO in anticipation?

i tried to tell em..grandma was a sow and daddy was an ape
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16038&page=8
but mate..THEY KNOW..THEY ARE A LUSTY BUNCH/MADE IN OUR PARENTS IMAGE
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16065&page=0#280906

BUT NO..OUR PARENTS DONT HAVE SEX..
ITS SIMPLE DENIAL..look woman will confirm..the ones that turn them on/are the ones that move on..once their gone.the next sukker to latch into..get luckier than his love making deserves

i noted that the woman/who complain about sex satisfaction/mainly TALK of lenght/of time..on the nest..yes/they..hate sex..so when it happens ever so infrequently[once..only]...they wonder/why its a race..and the sukker is gone.

POOR LOVERS get POOR LOVE..POOR POOR LOVE
then when they go longer its get off you sex maniac/who i really want is the father of who you call your kid..[its suss when mothers love their kids more than their spouse]..listen..48 minute mark
http://rss.infowars.com/20140409_Wed_Alex.mp3

but heck the guy is punching above his weight
why whine.the kids not yours nor mine...i dont see its even worth discussing..its rather personal..and adds stress un-needed thoughts

you cant trust em
but reject the other options
guys that cant speed..have other skills
but their spoiled as kids/both ways/SEE LAST SATURDAYS POST..909
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=0

Onthebeach,

This Wikipedia article summarises some of the studies that have been done on this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event

The very high rates that have been quoted are usually for cases where the paternity is being disputed, i.e., the man already suspects that he isn't the father.

Why this isn't treated as fraud when it does happen is a mystery to me, as the woman would know that her husband might not have been or definitely wasn't the father. It could be quite effectively prevented by genetic testing of the parents and baby at birth.

Given the 'Progressive' informal editorial policy of the national broadcaster I am wondering what spin will be put on the findings.

Paternity fraud is rife in Australia and many western countries. In ordinary everyday life fraud is an offence which is punishable by a variety of means such as paying back the money as well as a fine or even a jail sentence if the matter is serious enough. In paternity fraud however the perpetrators are always women, seldom if ever are they subject to any penalty or are they required to pay back the money which they have effectively stolen under false pretences.
In one case a few years ago a man called Liam Magill fought to have the child support he was defrauded of, returned. He won the case and was awarded $70,000 in damages. Then on appeal it went to the high court and was overturned, despite the fact that the mother was found guilty of paternity fraud. Unbelievably Justice Susan Crennan who was one of the presiding judges, had previously misled her own former de-facto husband that their two children were fathered by him. Despite this obvious conflict of interest she refused to step down from the case.
No father should be forced to pay child support unless a DNA test is carried out. Apart from the issue of paternity fraud what if such a child became ill and needed, for arguments sake, a kidney transplant. What then, if the assumed father was not the biological father ?.
Men are ripped off regularly by many women who practice what is commonly referred to as "father shopping", purely out of self interest, and it's high time it was stopped.

I believe in any case where the father is stated as unknown by the mother that paternity must be established by dna testing and welfare benefits withheld from the mother until the paternity of the father is established.

<<benefits withheld from the mother
until the paternity of the father is established.>>

that seems a step too far
mothers need love and support...[or else the kid cops it]

govt claims kids belong to them/as we registered them with govt
[see freemen don't need register..but slaves do...ITS HARD ENOUGH BELONGIN G TO A MAN..let alone a state demanding you explain/then checking up on whether you lied to govt or not.

its reported that jesus was raised by his step father
[many of our leaders were raised by single mothers]
we have a father[god]..we have parents/usually mum and dad/regardless of whom the sperm drone was

he abandoned his claim of right
the supplier of sperm should have no rights..[they abandoned ship]
and the one who claimed salvage rights has the parental duty..now..

they put a ring on it

[let him who GAINS ADVANTAGE PRESUME TO OWE THE DEBT..[not any power to abuse]..

ITS NOT GOVTS KID..ITS A CHILD OF GOD..and GOVT PAYS on gods behalf..

there was an important point..to be made.but its gone
THE REAL QUESTION IS...DO YOU KNOW YOUR TRUE FATHER.
YOUR HERE TO SHARE HIS GLORY.

From a newspaper report of the Magill case mentioned by eyeinthesky,

<LIAM MAGILL has discovered one of the few places the law just won't go - infidelity - and some kinds of justice it just cannot deliver.

Soon after he married Meredith Magill in 1989, she bore him a son, and soon after that, she took a long-term, secret lover.

Unknown to Mr Magill, it was a productive affair. The second son and daughter he thought were his, in fact were the offspring of his wife and her lover.
..
The decision was overturned in the Court of Appeal last year, and yesterday the original decision was unanimously dismissed by six High Court judges. Three judges found there could be no legal action for deceit about paternity between spouses, while three said there could, but only in exceptional cases, and this was not one.

All six said the law could not provide Mr Magill with the moral justice he sought. There could be no duty to disclose infidelity.>

tbc..

contd.,

<Justice Ken Hayne said: "The law cannot satisfactorily prescribe how a relationship that depends entirely upon matters wholly personal and private to the parties to it is to be maintained. The trust and confidence between marriage partners is based in much more than considerations of sexual fidelity."

The Chief Justice, Murray Gleeson, said Parliament had legislated the policy of protecting and preserving the institution of marriage, and imposing a legal duty to disclose infidelity would, "in the practical circumstances of many cases", go against that policy. Nor would he impose a duty to give an assurance of paternity.

Justice Gleeson said: "Few husbands expect, or seek, from their wives, assurances of paternity. Such assurances, if volunteered, would often raise, rather than resolve suspicions."

Three judges - William Gummow, Michael Kirby and Susan Crennan - jointly said fault was no longer relevant in divorces, and the child support scheme allowed for the recovery of money wrongly paid. They said infidelity should be left "to the morality of the spouses".

The judgements should leave no doubt about the High Court's view. Answers to quarrels such as these are not to be found in the blame of the common law, but in the no-fault procedures set up under the Family Law Act.

Mr Magill's lawyer, Vivien Mavropoulos, said the case had highlighted fundamental social issues in Australia. "They are the importance of truth in relationships and marriage, a child's identity and heritage, parentage and the responsibilities that go with that and a person's blood line, health issues and medical history," she said.>

I wonder how many married people would agree with the learned judges' views on the meaning of marriage? Not the relevance of the Family Law Act, but the fundamental duties and contract of marriage. What about this for instance,

<Justice Gleeson said: "Few husbands expect, or seek, from their wives, assurances of paternity. Such assurances, if volunteered, would often raise, rather than resolve suspicions.">

http://tinyurl.com/nm5k3qp

How many wives would believe that their husband's infidelity and children sired outside marriage are mere trifles and they would rather not know?

OTB, it's my impression that the high rates mentioned earlier are where paternity was already in doubt. Eg the nominal father was concerned enough about paternity that he sought a paternity test.

Not an area I've looked at recently. Some years back I got a little focussed when the Australian Law Reform Commission was seeking to have paternity testing made illegal without the consent of the other party or a court order. I exchanged some emails with them and one of the points they were concerned with was that paternity testing without the mothers consent violated her privacy if she had been having an affair.

I was struggling with the idea that someone who had been cheating within a relationship would consent to a paternity test and the potential for attempts to get a paternity test to be used as a weapon to isolate kids from the person seeking the paternity test. I get the impression that change to the law was not made.

Some general comment on the topic of paternity testing from the ALRC at http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/35-parentage-testing/social-consequences-parentage-testing

Some of their concerns are valid but don't seem to come into consideration when other aspects of family law are considered.

R0bert

RObert,

After reading the learned judges' reasons for decision I was left wondering if the public agreed with the concept of marriage that has been moulded by a law change long ago that was only aimed at simplifying divorce.

Doubtless as far as the law stands the judges would have got their interpretation of the available law right. They are paid to so so and others among them should criticise if not. However, is that what was intended by Family Law and is there public agreement? There is no statement of intent to accompany a law, nor is there any routine review apart from the occasional comment by an annoyed judge.

Has the law run ahead of the public?

Were there unexpected negative consequences that would cause angst with the public?

I am hoping that this thread might move away from the usual taking of sides to talk about the meaning for fatherhood, marriage and I guess, what worth is a marriage contract.

What consensus is there on marriage, fathers too, and does the law recognise and provide for that?

Generally,
My birth certificate discloses no father.
Does that mean I was an immaculate conception?
Seriously I, like some 100,000+ kids born between 1940 and 1944, obviously had an American serviceman for a father.
My mothers husband was locked up in Changi POW camp for the duration and I was born in the middle of it so he couldn't have been my father.
Who cares?
If the 'pill' had of been around then UI wouldn't be here today.

My fiance and I gave up our good jobs and house to return to his mother and take care of her as she became terminally ill. We considered this a natural role and responsibility. With my history as an assistant nurse, I became her carer and we were able to keep her at home till she passed away.
During this time revelations were made that were life changing for my partner, making my 'caring role' extremely difficult. Relatives turned up, paperworks were uncovered - a life of fraud and deception.
To cut a long story short, the mother/wife ran away abandoning one son and taking the youngest (my now fiance). Mother had a son to this philanderer ( who hasnt changed to this day). My fiances apparent father showed total favouritism to his new younger brother until a few years later abandoning the woman and boy he stole from another, plus his own son.
Twenty years later this man returns old and down and out. For five years my fiance, feeling sorry for the old guy, spent a fortune on him feeling the need to compensate for the time they lost, that he eagerly accepted.
Before the mother died, having discovered these life long secrets, time was spent offering her the opportunity to reveal the truth, ridding herself of a past full of lies.(mum do you need to tell me anything, is there anyone you want to see etc)nothing.
(Hard story to cut short) My fiance now knows his dad isnt his dad, and his brother (who has turned out just like his father, leaving a trail of kids, moving on to bigger and better things..apparently) is hishalf brother, met his full brother just before the funeral and has yet to meet his real father.
His name was changed very early, not legally so, with everything else, he isnt even who him!(We found a tiny newspaper clipping, naming both parents and himself)

Out of all this mess the most damage was done to the original husband and father, and the two boys. My fiances fake father will be getting what he deserves for his deceit. The main offender who is now dead, got away with her remorseless evils, but if there is some form of god I hope their justice system is better than ours.

chrisgaff
I always enjoy your posts and have learnt a lot from them.
There would have been so many terrible and sad circumstances back then, one of them being my dads situation, having been born around the same time in war torn country. Control had taken over peoples lives, they did what they could possibly humanly do to preserve their families. Many dads mums, children ,grandparents losing their battle, and loved ones. Clinging to who and what they had, and cherishing the fond memories, to pass on. Extending the love that shared and lost.
Kind regards

Feminism/secularism has got what they want (ie destroyed normal families) just because they can't control themselves and want guilt free sex with whoever comes along. No wonder the kids are topping themselves at such a young age and they are dumb enough to ask why.

chrisgaff1000,

There were many sad stories during the war and later, as a consequence of harm from the experience.

Did your mother raise you alone, or did your 'mothers husband' return from Changi and accept you as a father?

Coming from a cattle property in a remote area I attended a boarding school where I met many whose fathers died through hostilities, and many too who had lost fathers and sometimes mothers as well through the farm and other accidents that were common at the time. It was surprising how many class mates had lost both parents through various causes and were being raised by other relatives. Not always happy experiences, although they were tough times anyhow in the country.

otb 'mothers husband'? unnecessary

jodelie, "otb 'mothers husband'? unnecessary"

I was quoting. The poster used the phrase to distinguish and I was being respectful to his/her view.

otb. My stuff up, I apologise

jodelie,

That is very kind of you. No problems at all. Have a good day.

onthebeach,
He did accept me and even scooped me up on the airstrip as he crossed the tarmac despite the fact that he looked like a scarecrow and weighed about 5 stone.
I think he was just glad to be back alive and any semblance of reality was acceptable.
He developed what we now know as PTS (then 'shellshock') and spent years in and out of "The Huts" at Yaralla Military Hospital (113 Australian General Hospital)which was a special section for the uncontrollable violence these patients presented from time to time.
There was a special act of Parliament that dictated no criminal charges or convictions and the patients were handed back to the repatriation dept. for whatever treatment was available.
Unfortunately my 'father' developed a psychosis that made him believe I was the product of a union between my mother and Japanese prison guards and we both suffered terrible violence over the years.
It ended for me when I fired 16x.22 shorts through my bedroom door into him as he tried to hack the door down with an axe to behead me.
He lived and I left home.
It ended for my mother when she dropped dead from an undisclosed cancer of the uterus. She was 36
Such were the days.
I have a lot to do wit ex prisoners of war and my experience was very common indeed.

ChrisGaffe1000, what a dreadful story!
The war certainly affected your family badly, and that is very sad.

I don't believe that any woman should lie to her husband about the paternity of her child.
However, I do understand why some women do keep quiet in the desperate hope that the baby could belong to the husband.
Maybe they think that if they do speak up about the possibility of the child not being their husbands, then even if he turns out to be the father, she will lose him anyway?

We had the opposite problem in one side of my family.
My uncle was never faithful to my aunt, and obviously never used protection either, because my cousins found out very late in life that they had 5 half brothers!
In the small town they lived in it's just lucky none of my female cousins ended up marrying their unknown half brothers.

IN ONE/ON-LINE/Opinion thread..there was a family
With much confusion..as you will see

It was a mama and a papa,.and a boy who was grown
Who wanted to marry..and have a wife of his own

He found a young girl,..that suited him nice
And went to his papa to ask his advice
His papa said son, I have to say no
This girl is your sister but your mama don't know

Woe, is me, shame and scandal in the family
Woe, is me, shame and scandal in the family

A week went by and the summer came 'round
And soon the best cook in the island he found
He went to his papa to name the date
But papa shook his head and to him he said
You can't marry this girl, I have to say no
This girl is your sister but your mama don't know

Woe, is me, shame and scandal in the family
Woe, is me, shame and scandal in the family

He went to his mama and covered his head
And told his mama what his papa had said
His mama she laughed, she said go, man, go
Your daddy ain't your daddy, but your daddy don't know

Woe, is me, shame and scandal in the family
Woe, is me, shame and scandal in the family

SO HOW EVER DID AB-ORIGINAL../
FIRST PEOPLE FIGURE OUT MATING BY SKIN GROUPS
pre the clever invader..[and any im-migration policy]
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=australian+aboriginal+skin+groups&

chrisgaff1000,

I am sorry you had that experience. You are right though, there were many tough lives during and after the war.

Suseonline,

It is said that many children conceived in country towns and during WW2 look remarkably like the priest who comforted them while their men were away.

Secret women's business, obviously.

Onthebeach, I have absolutely no doubt that what you suggest about the local country Priests during the world wars is true in some towns!

Obviously the women and the Priests 'comforted' each other though, given that it always takes two to Tango....

I also believe that many of the military men serving over seas during the wars took their 'comfort' wherever they could get it too?
I know this happened in Vietnam for sure.

ploT POT
..meet kettle

WHEREVER WE ARE WE SEEK COMFORT
SAME IN heaven..as in hell

if there is a safe place..WE..Seek comfort

WHO'S ya daddy..is often heard in prison
WHERE YOU Learn not to sit upon Ya stool..yet love endures..any discomfort...[so they say]

REALLY THE GENES/Determine your FACE..not your COMFORTING WAY
iTS PURELY ENVIRONMENTAL..if You happy..or gay

YA SEE I RECALL THIS GUY HAD A GOTCHA Moment
when his wife had a black child..on the stand..it was revealed..that the sperm/he TOOK HOME TO his wife..from the gUY..WHO HAD LAST HAD SEX WITH THE HOOKer...just before him..swIMMING..IN THE OTHER GUYS SPERM

[he took it home..and impregnated his WIFE..how is he NOT accountable?][HE WENT TO FIGHT..HOW IS HE NOT ACCOUNTABLE..HE WENT OUT WITH HIS PALS..how is he not accountable..but it runs bOTH WAYS

LOWER THAN LOW ONe who denies the other their RIGHTS
YET GIFTS THEM UPON OTHER/one GETS THE BURDEN..THE OTHER THE BOTHER.

we soon get sick of one and other..one will give more than they gET
IF THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP THAT works..i aint found that one/yet..but comes the time/you see its not worth laying ya bagg-age/BEFORE ANY AS KIND AS thee.

baggism tells me to bag it/
john was going DEAF BY THIS TIME..that wer'nt what jokO SAID
JOHN WAS A lover..he COULD NEVER FIGURE YOKO OUT...it makes a relationship..but not a TRUE MARRIAGE...

a good husband and a good wife
doth not necessarily..a GOOD mother father lover MAKE
mask.[THATS WHERE GOVT NEEDS BE LIKE A MOTHER/NOT A BAD DRUNKEN DISCIPLINARIAN/FATHER/do as i say/not do what i do..ie SPENDING GOVT CASH ON HIS MATES/HIS BOOZE AND HIS SUPP..STEALING REVENUE FROM Mum and the kids..he is sure cant be his/yet are.

I ONCE/HAD..A FREIND/FIEND/FRI-END..who offered my baby-girl
some..lollies..for a kiss..thats like prostitution..IT REMINDS ME OF THE TITLE..WHO'S YA DADDY..?

Ok..ya father..is the sun
he alone takes no sabbath..him alone..but one
if he stops living goes..its tIME..YA TOLD DADDY...REST FATHER

ITS FUNNY..HOW..2/B..ACCOMMODATING..
[Without being..intimidating]HOW LONG..CAN OUR FATHER/REST?

WAKE-up..the..[pub*lick/PRIESTly..sir*vants]..have let us down
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0#178808

if/your..IGNORED/YET..PAYING..THE BILLS/LIKE..HIM
ITS..TIME..YOU KNEW..HOW..OR DARE ASK..WHY
http://board.freedomainradio.com/page/books/the_handbook_of_human_ownership_a_manual_for_new_tax_farmers.html
arjay/quote..<<>.This pre-occupation with illegals..>>

2..WILLING/TO..WORK..FOR FREE.<<<is..just a distraction...from the real game of looting..our economies and keeping us peasants subjugated>>
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16224&page=0

see how/they sell suburbia/REPLACEMENT/CULTURE..TO US..in sitcoms
we bought..into the dream..instead of family..[PICK/A SITCOM. FAMILY/ PICK..FRIENDS/PICK..COP/JUDGE SHOW PEERS]

we are..'the team'[JUDGE/JUDY/COP-SHOWS/FOOTY/SOME BALL/'BROADCAST'
or the state..or the nationality..or the sex..or the skin..GROUP/MOB

my point is.we are all..being made..over into clones..SET WAGE/ACCORDING/TO..THE STANDARD..OF WORK/EXPECTED..[FROM A FORCED SLAVE..]

ONE BRUSH TARS..US ALL/SARS/GODS/reality show/stars
chefs/cook's books..eat/waorkstarve slave..
WE ARE...ALL SINNERS/fatties/sexist-pigs..
WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS...BEGGING..FOR WORK

we are..all..SPOILED/BELOVED..children..enjoined living mortal heirs of..the one most holy living living merciful immortal/omnipresence wholly spirit.

how to explain..to loved ones..whats going on
globally..is they give us foodstamps..or subsistence dole/PENAL TITHE/RATE/CASUAL/AT CALL...ONE SIZE FITS ALL

where most half/govt income..goes back direct to some capitalist ..landlord/tax free.[off shored trust]..stealing govt/bailout cash..from..slaves..working/for\dole.

[we ARE SEEING REAL-ESTATE UP..AGAIN IN IRELAND..yet..still 5000 ghost estates..they bought up pennies in the pound..stand empty

but/what if*..we could..get cash/from govt via rent assistance for immigrants ..nice sure govt cash-flow..to fill to fill the capitalist bill..dole/rent assistance..

[yet more drain/from the public purse..filled only by selling more public services..[privatizations..of govt income streams..or by ever more sin taxes or fees fines revenue access charges/other increases in govt theft..[read tax burden]

WE ARE SEEING HOUSES GO UP/..YET/SEEING EVICTIONS AND REPOSSESSIONS..homeless joblessness broken homes..go up to

THEN..HUGE GOVT..bailout/mates..with TAX ADVANTAGED FIRMS CREATING THE NEXT INVESTMENT BOND..bubble..[bundled RENTED HOUSING]...damm caps..ie the next bubble[rental houses paid for immigrants via dole payments]

its a hidden bailout/
THE GROWTH MODEL DEMANDS
but..ONLY PUTS further NON PRODUCTIVE/Burden on us...ALL .GLOBALLY..
http://rss.infowars.com/20140417_Thu_Alex.mp3

i wish people would..get the facts
http://whatreallyhappened.com/node
GIVE THINGS A REST
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16225&page=0