I was watching news services this evening and saw people interviewed complaining about having to go back to the ballot box in Western Australia. Why?

During the same evening of news I'd seen the elections in Afghanistan at present. People were lining up to vote in huge numbers looking 'excited' - like we do in Australia at after Christmas sales.

Large voting numbers - despite terrorist attacks and killings during the election campaign and people putting their lives at risk to vote. Women for example had to have special officers for voting protection.

I don't know what we do about Australia - but for the first time - I think the Afghanistan 'people' did things better than us!

The difference is that Afghanistan has ethnocentric, tribal candidates and we don't, they're not voting so much as enlisting in a faction in an endless civil war.
There is a point to voting in Afghanistan because it's democratic, democracy is mob rule and you get an MP at the end of the process who will pay it forward via cronyism and tribal nepotism.
There's no point in voting in Australia because it's not a democracy, the voter has no hope of benefiting from the process, only the MP benefits from his election via enhanced future earnings when he moves back to the private sector.

Yes, they’ve got everything to vote for in Afghanistan. In Australia there is no point.

For the last several elections I have voted for no candidate/party, as none has deserved my vote.

Our system is so screwed, primarily because of the overwhelming influence of vested-interest big business on government, of either persuasion, and because of the utterly DISGUSTING compulsory preferential voting system, which compels you to mark every square, and can make your vote count where you absolutely don’t want it to.

Gosh and golly gee, Nathan, you are getting that leftie cultural cringe down to a fine art. Must be that 'progressive' education system.

Get a backpack and travel. You don't need much money and it will do you wonders.

Ludwig
Our compulsory voting rules do not compel you to "mark every square, and make your vote count where you absolutely don’t want it to".
You are only compelled to turn up at a polling place and have your name marked off the roll. What you do with your ballot paper is confidential and you can place it in the box unmarked if you so wish.

I think some people do not understand why preferential voting is used.
Its purpose to prevent someone that the majority DO NOT want from winning.
Of course it only applies when there are more than two candidates.

First matey the Meeja always pick some absolute knob to give a skewed view of their own. Second if you don't like Australia go elsewhere.
The fact is the preferential voting system is now being gamed by the right as well as the left and so the lefties cry foul!
As pointed out you do not have to vote just attend the polling station. Personally I think we should fine anyone who repeats "We have to vote" it would get some tax at least.

Mikk, the general understanding that most voters have is that they are required to cast a vote and therefore mark their ballot paper, and that they have to mark every square to make it legitimate.

The implication is that if you lodge a blank ballot paper or deliberately illegitimise it by not marking every square, then you are doing something dodgy, irresponsible and technically illegal.

Yes of course we have the democratic right to lodge a blank or annulled ballot paper.

Although I’m not so sure that we actually have the legal right to do that.

If we really wanted to exercise our democratic responsibilities at election time, we’d lodge a blank ballot paper… well…. not quite blank…. covered with obscenities, objecting to the DESPICABLY antidemocratic Compulsory Preferential Voting system.

We wouldn’t vote for any minor candidates that we might like, because our vote would very often filter down and end up counting for a party that we specifically wanted to vote against !! !! !!

Sheesh, we are incredibly hypocritical here in OZ. We promote democracy in places like Afghanistan, and yet our form of democracy is based on the most utterly undemocratic counterintuitive voting system you could ever get.

We look at all the problems with free and fair elections in many countries around the world. We hold ourselves up as being totally above all of that. But we don’t see just how rank our voting system is, directly due to CPV.

Ludwig "For the last several elections I have voted for no candidate/party, as none has deserved my vote."

As far as I am concerned, anyone who does a donkey vote has no right to comment on the results of an election, because they did not participate in that election.

< As far as I am concerned, anyone who does a donkey vote has no right to comment on the results of an election, because they did not participate in that election. >

There's no Anarchy selection on the ballot paper so who am I suppose to vote for?

Just because I didn't vote doesn't mean I can bitch like everyone else. I still have to follow the rules laid down by the percentage that voted against me.

What makes me laugh is all those that think democracy is the way to go. In a democracy, 49% of people in a country of 23 million is 11.4 million people totally jacked! That's a lot of pissed off people! Is it any wonder we constantly hear whaling?

Democracy is a joke! And if voting worked, they'd ban it!

Suse,
I've found that for the most part the people casting informal ballots are more aware of the various party platforms and the issues pressing on society. Informal votes are counted in the final tally so the informal voter has actually participated in the electoral process, again, democracy is the rule of the mob (or the rule of the streets), not the rule of the voter, the politician or the party.
An example of vestigal democracy as practiced in the Australia of 2014 would be the endless Twitter and Facebook campaigns used to bully and intimidate businesses and individuals into political correctness or the Occupy and Sea Shepherd provocations.
Like most of the formerly powerful institutions in our society, religion, art, science etc democracy is just a stump of what it once was. It's such a novelty that the Occupy thugs and Twitter bullies thing that they're "starting something" when in reality 100 years ago political meetings regularly descended into chaotic melee and political disputes were settled with fists, boots and bludgeons.

Suse, that’s terrible!

There’s a whole bunch of things fundamentally wrong with that.

1. It is our democratic right to vote for no candidate. If we choose to do so in a considered way, then we are undertaking our democratic duty just as fully as we would if we were voting for any candidate in a considered way…. and more fully than voting in an ill-considered manner, which many if not the vast majority of voters do.

2. When you look at the politics of the Libs, Labs, Groans and others, you could very easily find that you have significant disagreement with their policies and legitimately not want to vote for any of them.

3. When you look at how the compulsory preferential voting system works, you will see that even if you do vote for a minor candidate, and wish to put the big parties last and second last, your vote will probably end up counting for the one you put second last after your preferences have filtered down. How can anyone who gives a damn possibly be party to that sort of incredibly antidemocratic VOTE-STEALING voting system? It is surely your democratic DUTY to NOT be a part of such a disgusting perversion of democracy!

4. Most people vote for the candidate they dislike the least. It is not a matter for them of voting for someone or some party that they really endorse. So how does this fit with democracy, and the right to comment on elections? Suse, do you think we should vote for a candidate/party that we really strongly don’t like, simply because we dislike the alternatives even more?

5. In saying that you think I shouldn’t have the right to comment on elections, you are violating the fundamental principle of free speech. So, do you extend that sort of thinking to other things? If someone does something wrong or something you disagree with, do you think that they should forego their rights to voice an opinion on anything related to the particular issue?

Ok then Ludwic, what would you suggest we do to elect our government or parliament instead then?
If everyone was as apathetic as you and Raw Mustard, then there would be no elections and we could end up with anarchy.
Maybe that would be attractive to you guys?

Suse, it is simple.

We need the optional preferential system implemented at the Federal level. This system has been used in Queensland for a long time. It works perfectly well.

It is democratic. It allows the voter to mark only one square or as many squares as they like, thus declaring their preferences as fully as they wish.

In other words; it allows the voter to properly express their wishes at the ballot box…. and there is no chance that their vote will end up counting where they don’t want it to.

<< If everyone was as apathetic as you… >>

Scuuuze me Suse, if there is one thing that you could have gleaned from my last post, it is that I am very passionately concerned about our domestic politics.

What a silly thing to say!!

It is you who is showing major signs of apathy when it comes to our voting system. You didn’t know what a donkey vote is. You didn’t know anything about CPV. And you haven’t answered any of my questions, presumably because you don’t want to be drawn into discussing something that you clearly know very little about.

Half the problem with our political system is that there is a very large portion of the population that is as apathetic as you. If they gave a damn about some of the extraordinarily bad aspects of our so-called democracy, then we would have a much better system of governance. They simply wouldn’t stand for things as corrupting as CPV. And they would be much less inclined to vote for the slightly lesser of two (or more) evils (which most people consider our political choices to be) and much more inclined to vote for minor parties, independents or for no candidate, thus ultimately watering down the power of the big parties and bringing about real political reform, which heaven knows we desperately need!

vote by black ball/definatly dont want
white ball/definatly do want

put the right ball/into the right box
tally the yeah/\tally the nay..IF MORE NAY..GO AWAY

ANyhow/this was inspired..by a vision..a now way/voting box option
or collecting the no vote votes..to mean your level of govt is fired[an unofficial referendum..that over 50 percent no votes/dissolves that level of govt..into lower level/of governance

when our informal vote jumps up
things will change..as long as the informal IS STILL A FORMAL VOTE

IF WE GET REFERENDUM NUMBERS ITS DECIDED...BLANK
VOTE MEAs...I VOTE YOUR SYSTEM IS GONE.[or in-formalise it in creative ways]

DONE
SIMPLES.

add up the one number that can change the farce
fight back..informally..nul/void the voting form

[dont leave blank as any idiot can steal that as a vote...deface the disgrace..keep it informal]

http://whatreallyhappened.com/node

We would not like to be an economic basket case like Germany would we. The mere fact they are holding Europe together financially is of little significance?

As for those Mongrel Kiwi’s, their dollar is getting close to parity with ours, what are they doing right. They have been able to get free trade deals through years ahead of us?

Did you know that both these countries have not had a majority government for a bloody long time? Gee they must be unstable!

Believe it or not one chicken was squashed do to the sky falling on them.

Both these progressive countries are represented democratically and proportionally.

We need to vote in a government that is prepared to give up power, change to a proportional system and give the power to the people.

For more details on how it works read this thread in March 2012:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5047#135467

What some people on this topic don't realise is that their vote can make a difference - but no change will occur, unless they change their mindset! Unfortunately too many people in Australia believe things like - "my vote won't make a difference" or "why bother voting, when major parties dominate".

To me this is simply being lazy. We need people in Australia to change their voting mindset - and vote for someone else! People in Afghanistan were willing to come out and vote, regardless of the risks, put themselves on the line - and we will wait and see the outcome.

I heard some of the comments from a women's rights advocate living in Afghanistan - and she was a very intelligent person - much more than the many voters in Australia.

NathanJ, "I heard some of the comments from a women's rights advocate living in Afghanistan - and she was a very intelligent person - much more than the many voters in Australia"

Did you pause to reflect that Australia's young men and women are in Afghanistan trying to protect her and bring democracy, while the buff young Afghan blokes who should be sticking up for her rights are paying big money to criminals for a one way tourist gig to Australia to hitch up with 'Wonderful Centrelink'?

Amazing though it seems, there are smug intelligent 'progressives' in Australia who slag the young Aussie soldiers who put their lives on the line to free those women, and they applaud the very traditions and garb that represent that ferociously cruel, inhuman treatment of Afghan women.

Complex, eh?