Mr Abbott and Immigration Minister Scott Morrison held a media conference today to say it had been 100 days since an asylum-seeker boat had reached Australian shores — and that over the same period under Labor there were 66 boat arrivals. With nearly 4000 illegal immigrants.

With an estimated average of 4% of illegal immigrants dying at sea, Abbott has already saved about 150 lives and is happy to continue this humanitarian work.

“It's too early to declare the job has been done but nevertheless we can safely say that the way is closed,” the Prime Minister said. He warned, however, that the end of the monsoon season may prompt asylum-seekers to attempt to reach Australia by boat. “The monsoon is coming to an end and traditionally people-smuggling operations have picked up at the end of the monsoon,” he told reporters in Sydney. Mr Abbott also conceded the absence of boat arrivals did not mean there hadn't been attempts to make the journey.

Mr Morrison said asylum-seekers trying to come to Australia by boat would be confronted with the same policies “that stopped all those coming over the last 100 days”.

Abbott can't keep his mouth shut can he. Now he has shot down his own thunder saying the monsoon time is always a time of low arrivals.

I was going to comment...but this cartoon best sums up yours and the govt's faux compassion-slash-humanitarianism:

http://d2g5sp6heqx5bg.cloudfront.net/uploads/cartoons/111/large_65088ef8.jpg

Dear Poirot,

Great cartoon.

It puts things into their right perspective.
Hypocrisy knows no bounds from those guys.
Still it's a diversion from Sinodinos,
and the other things they don't like to talk about
or answer questions. Just like the Knights and
Dames farce - another diversion!
And they think the Aussie voters are mugs.
And they could be right - they voted these guys in.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I certainly welcome fewer deaths at sea of these very unfortunate people escaping grave risk and persecution in their own countries. Who wouldn't.

But come on mate, you're not really about to tell us no boats arriving in Australia means none are setting out to attempt the journey. The difference Abbott has made is he has devoted far more of our resources patrolling our approaches and as an admirable result incidents like the Siev X are far less likely to happen. I for one welcome the spend, it should have been done ages ago if we want to consider ourselves a humanitarian country.

I certainly don't condone the mistreatment of these poor souls that occurs after we perform our 'rendition' to a foreign 'concentration camp' but purely based on the actions of the navy those attempting this perilous journey are now at far less risk of losing their lives that they have been. In my opinion this effort should not be diminished and be free from other proposed cuts.

He is not going to get anything over the Sri Lankan debacle.
Or the Manus isl corruption camp.
Maybe we could come up with an award for the biggest mouth, or shot in foot award. Other than that it all seems rather predictable. Lord Abbott doesn't make it either, Lord Clive now that has got something going for it.

Shadow Minister is shooting fish in a barrel.

Australians voted overwhelmingly to destroy the criminal people smugglers' business model. Any party interested in representing the voters would have taken immediate heed and proposed suitable policies.

However it was only Abbott and the LNP who were at all interested in what the voters wanted, so they got the guernsey to form government. All perfectly above board.

It is only to be expected that those who were not interested in representing the voters are now on the sidelines spluttering. That they haven't learned anything about democracy in the process, or more likely despise allowing voters to have a say, is a monkey on the back. So be it.

Great stir Shadow Minister.

Now I've seen your trick with weasels, tell me what is your technique with wasps?

Some may like Abbott's policies, but it doesn't imply that it was the voters' wish.

In the last elections I preferenced Abbott's party in order to stop the NBN, not in order to harass ocean-travellers far from Australia's shores. The NBN was stopped, for which I thank Abbott 150 times, but the latter was not my wish: it was a frog I had to swallow due to Australia's ridiculous electoral system which practically only allows for two parties.

If people like to sail the great ocean in inadequate boats, they should know that drowning is a very real risk, yet if that is their choice then we have no right to disrupt them. If Abbott truly cared about people dying overseas, he could with half that money have saved 15,000 starving children in Africa, who would have thanked rather than cursed him.

The continuation of the argument, is that KRudd, Juliar and Milne should be hauled before the courts for negligence in the deaths of up to 2000 people.

While the left whingers like parrot and foxy feebly try and pick at Abbott's motives, they cannot fault the results.

Deaths at sea:

Labor nearly 2000,

Coalition 0.

< Abbott should get a humanitarian award for savings 1000s of lives at sea. >

SM, yes I think you’re on the right track. Although we need to wait and see…. and make a judgement on just how successful the stop-the-boats effort has been in a couple of years time.

We absolutely need to stop the boats.

Bloody hard thing to do after Rudd’s extraordinary opening up of the whole saga in 2007 and Labor’s hopeless filibustering for the years following that.

It couldn’t be done without taking a hard line.

Abbott and Morrison should definitely be applauded.

But, as part of this whole sordid affair, we should be hearing from them just how Australia is contributing to refugee issues. Our formal refugee intake should be constantly mentioned, as should our international aid effort. These are really quite reasonable contributions on a per-capita basis.

Australia IS doing its bit.

<< The continuation of the argument, is that KRudd, Juliar and Milne should be hauled before the courts for negligence in the deaths of up to 2000 people. >>

Yes, absolutely!

No deaths at sea, how does anyone know that. No one knows what is going on at Manus isl. No one wants them so where are they going to end up.
The Malaysia plan should have been the go. Can you rule that out.

Shadow Minister, I am afraid you are flogging a dead horse, if you think you can change the position of these labor lovers, because after all, after the six years of gross mismanagement and waste, THEY STILL VOTED FOR THEM, which pretty mush says it all.

The other problem they suffer from is not recognizing that there was also a monsoon season in 07,08,09,2010,'11 and 12, yet, the boats kept coming and the deaths occurred.

Frankly, as cold as it is, these people are ILLEGAL immigrants and, if they die in an attempt to enter our coumtry illegally, then that's the risk they KNOWIMGLY take.
. There are correct channels if one wishes to immigrate and, if one chooses to pay people smuggler thugs, then that's a risk THEY chose to take.

As for immigration, withnour jobs crisis looming, we should immediately suspend all 457 visas and refuse entry to anyone without skills to offer, even then, the skills will only be useful if there are jobs to be had, otherwise we are shooting ourselves in the foot. AGAIN!

As I say, anyone who continues to offer their unconditional support to the labor/green movement will be impossible to reason with.

My goodness, just listen to you lot, by the sounds of it Abbott seems to have single handedly solved the refugee problem. The killing, rape and torture in Sri Lanka have been brought to an abrupt halt, the Taliban have turned over a new leaf and are right now pounding their guns into plowshares.

The only problem is it is all crap, there are still outrages against civilians in many countries and still thousands fleeing the horrors of conflict. Are we to account for the lives of those who might otherwise have fled but found the door closed because of Abbott's policies so were left to their fate? Or do we find some comfort in thinking well they probably escaped but we sent the problem elsewhere.

And what have we done as a country to appease people like Shadow Minister? This once proud defender of human rights gave a country, accused and condemned by other Commonwealth nations of gross human rights violations, of genocide, of systematic torture and rape, military hardware in the form of naval ships, just so the Shadow Ministers of this world can sleep easy in their beds.

Just to show how deeply we have sold our souls the United Nations Human Rights Council passed a resolution last Thursday to launch an independent investigation into alleged atrocities in Sri Lanka. British PM David Cameron called it a ''victory for the people of Sri Lanka''. Our response? We opposed it. Yes that is right, we opposed an investigation into a genocide.

My god haven't Abbott and Shadow Minister given us so much to be proud of as a nation. Tell you what I think we should give both of them a well deserved humanitarian award. In fact Sir Abbott and Sir Shadow Minister have such a nice ring and in keeping with Abbott's fondness for royal titles. Wait a moment I will call the Queen to check her availability... opps, seems she is otherwise engaged, so to apparently is the PM. Can't imagine why.

The whole world mourns at the loss of 229 persons lost in the southern ocean and spares no expense in searching for clues. We loose over 2,000 persons at sea in the northern sea and the asylum seeker sympathizers couldn't give a damn, as they supported their venture. Why? Because their political party supported their coming by boats.

Those kept in detention are not kept against their will as they are free to be sent home or another nation; they are only detained while their claim for refugee status is established.

SteeleRedux,

You should then be grateful that there is now one less outrage against civilians in the form of Labor, the greens, and the human traffickers carelessly drowning people at sea.

I too congratulate the government for stopping the boats, at least for the 100 days.

I recall the illegals supporters saying that it could not be done and I admit it happened a lot sooner than I expected. I was visualising that it would take much harsher measures to convince the illegals that we were determined to deter them from coming.

It highlights just how stupid Rudd and Gillard were and the total incompetence of their governments.

I will endorse 'whatever it takes' to stop this intrusion by these shonks that take criminal advantage of our goodwill and generosity.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I have declared I am supporting the nomination of Abbott and your good self for knighthood for your outstanding humanitarian efforts as per the title of this thread.

They are fully deserved in my humble opinion, but you see we need to get it past the committee of the Order of the Garter. To do this will need some planning and some fund raising for air fares to England you and Tony to England. Yes I know there is a perfectly serviceable RAAF jet at the ready but Tony is a little leery after his slap on the wrist and having to max out the credit card repaying some travel allowances.

But first things first. I feel in order to give your application the very best chance, having a local award in the bag would give great credence to your nomination and I think I have found a suitable organisation to deliver it. The NSW Service for the Treatment and Rehabilitation of Torture and Trauma Survivors (STARTTS).

From their site;

“Every year STARTTS holds the Humanitarian Awards to acknowledge and thank those people who have made an exceptional positive contribution towards refugee issues in NSW. Indivduals and organisations in various fields who are doing outstanding work to support refugees are eligible for the Awards. Over the years, the Humanitarian Awards have honoured community leaders, youth workers, lawyers, journalists, teachers and many more – each them making an incredible contribution to improving the lives of refugees.”
http://www.startts.org.au/news-events/refugee-week/humanitarian-awards/

Cont...

Cont...

Sounds just the ticket! It continues;

“Anyone can be nominated for an Award, as long as their work with or for refugees is worthy of recognition and falls within one of the ten award categories. Nominees can be individuals, organisations or specific projects.

This is where it gets a little tricky you see the categories are as follows;

Refugee Community Worker
Refugee Supporter
Youth
Education
Government and Legal
Media
Sport
Rural and Regional
Best Project

Tony gets the nomination for the Government and Legal but where to put you? Perhaps media?

Anyway I will get the forms in ASAP but you will need to be a touch circumspect about what you say in public and who you associate with, these bleeding heart can be a bit touchy. I will try to keep the others in line.

Dear Banjo,

I feel if you have any affection for Tony and SM you might want to tone down the rhetoric at least until after the close shave by HRH. So perhaps park 'illegals', 'shonks', and 'harsh measures' for now. This honour would make SM's day and for Tony … let's say the just isn't enough room in the budgie smugglers.

As to the rest of you please try and remember these two blokes are after a well deserved H-U-M-A-N-I-T-A-R-I-A-N A-W-A-R-D got it? So get on script and let's not poo in their nest.

Australian honours recognise and celebrate ordinary Australians who show courage, self-sacrifice, dedication, love and service to their community and humanity. Their stories help shape our country's enduring qualities in the present and the future.

Steele,
I do not hold any particular affection for TA or SM and do not feel a need to tone down my speech when referring to the illegals. In fact I could use even stronger language, but the mods might not allow it and that would defeat the purpose of posting.

I believe those illegals that send kids or bring kids on the boats should be charged with child abuse and endangering their lives, wilful neglect comes to mind.

I hold no respect for the illegals at all, it is you and your ilk that love the shonks and you should be praising Morrison for saving their lives.

Abbott should be praised for the money allocated to the homeless in Aus. Again another promise made by Rudd and never fulfilled.

Egg over the face of those who smirked, mocked and ridiculed Abbott. Still waiting for an apology from Abc. Guess the saved lives speak for themselves. The left have shown clearly their crocodile tears over previous deaths caused by Rudd/Gillard policies.

Dear Banjo,

Fair enough mate, I will remove your name from the list of referees I had included on the nomination form.

But I am intrigued by your statement;

“Abbott should be praised for the money allocated to the homeless in Aus. Again another promise made by Rudd and never fulfilled.”

That Tony is full of surprises. First a great humanitarian now an advocate for the poor and homeless.

And so misunderstood. This is him speaking on that very topic with Four Corners in 2010.
http://youtu.be/CiekYLkMyv8

From what I had read recently he was not prepared to commit to homelessness funding secured in a bipartisan fashion by Rudd and Turnbull called the National Partnership Agreement on Homelessness which was started in 2009.

“On 16 November 2012, at a Council of Australian Government (COAG) meeting, the Australian and state and territory governments agreed, subject to Cabinet processes, to enter into negotiations for a new NPAH. The NPAH has been in operation for four years and is due to expire on 30 June 2013. In 2011-12 over 180 new or expanded initiatives were delivered. At the COAG meeting it was also agreed, subject to Cabinet processes, to work on a one-year transitional partnership agreement for the 2013-14 financial year while the new long-term agreement is negotiated.”
http://www.dss.gov.au/our-responsibilities/housing-support/programs-services/homelessness/national-partnership-agreement-on-homelessness

So it appears you have information that he is not just going to continue the funding arrangements installed by Rudd but from the implication of your words is going to do over and above what Rudd did. That is certainly welcome news and indeed he does get credit for it. If you could send me a link I will make sure it is sent to a couple I know who work in the sector. They will be mightily relieved.

Cont...

Cont...

However I shouldn't have been surprised since I had remembered reading this somewhere;

Prior to the “election, before we made any announcement about homelessness policy, we went together to the Mission Australia homelessness facility in Surry Hills and with no media present, just the then Leader of the Opposition and I, we sat there for several hours talking to those men and some women, mostly men, about their lives, how they had become homeless, what had happened in their families, in their backgrounds and how could we change things so that not only would they have a roof over their head for the night but that they could leave homelessness behind, they could find a permanent home. That personal discussion and investigation that the then leader of the opposition brought with him into attacking and addressing the issue of homelessness was very important.”

Hats off to the man.

Well hello runner, surely a man I can pen it instead of Banjo as a referee on the form. Just need a few more and I will get the thing sent in.

Any others?

SR,

TA's humanitarian credentials are far stronger than anyone's in Labor or the Greens, with decades as a volunteer for fire and surf rescue, fundraising for charity and involvement in indigenous affairs. The saving of hundreds of lives at sea is just the cherry on top.

Ta's humanitarian effort on Manus Isl will stand for quite some time. Where are these people going to end up, they can't be held indefinitely.
Has the invasion of QLD happened yet, or is that still to come.

There's currently an investigation into the murder
of 40,000 people by the Sri Lankan government -
for war crimes. Countries around the world have
voiced their approval for this investigation -
Great Britain is one of them. However, our current
government is against the investigation. As Mr
Abbott has stated "difficult things happen in
difficult times," Or words to that effect. Julie Bishop
has also voiced her disapproval of the investigation.
And to make matters worse - the Australian
government has even given patrol boats to Sri Lanks to
intercept the people (asylum seekers) attempting to
flee this deplorable situation.

One can't help but wonder whether these asylum seekers
would agree that Mr Abbott deserves to be given a
"Humanitarian Award?" The British Prime Minister certainly
would not!

CLASSIC FOXY! cherry-picking for the left.

So now we've heard the Green Lefts take on things (through Foxy)--but, what does Sri Lanka's closest neighbour ,India, think of the UN resolution/study:

"the resolution ignores the progress already made by the country"

" Ïndia abstains"

http://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ians/india-abstains-from-sri-lanka-vote-in-geneva-114032701061_1.html

And then there's this inconvenient fact:

"According to UNHCR, there are more than 136,000 Sri Lankan refugees living in 65 countries worldwide. Of those who have returned, the overwhelming majority are from Indian camps in Tamil Nadu, with a handful also returning from Malaysia, Georgia and Hong Kong."
http://www.irinnews.org/report/96203/sri-lanka-government-welcomes-refugee-repatriation-from-india

One can only wonder WHEN Australia will start repatriating the Tamils who boated here -- oh look, there goes a flying pig!

Foxy,

Initiating an investigation into Sri Lankan atrocities committed by the government AND the rebels, when the government has opposed it is as useful as teats on a bull. The complete lack of access to anyone or anywhere relevant makes this yet another exercise in pointless gesture politics.

Giving patrol boats to intercept the economic refugees bound for Aus, (that would simply be sent back home again if they hadn't drowned) is a humanitarian gesture that saves lives and $bns of taxpayer's money.

SM,

The final months of the Sri Lankan Civil War
resulted in the deaths of civilians, the
displacement of more than 350,000 and allegations
of gross violations of international and
humanitarian law. An independent investigation into
what was done by both sides is something that would
to me seem worthy of support especially from
governments that are supposedly concerned with
human rights and their violations. Many of
Australia's allies agree with this investigation,
including Great Britain. Therefore the behaviour
of our current government is not something that should
be applauded in this matter. And therefore the
suggestion that Mr Abbott should get a humanitarian
award for supposedly saving lives at sea - is
ludicrous, considering their records thus far -
which is more about "spin doctoring" than saving lives.
At least that's in my opinion. You of course are
entitled to sing your Party's praises as you've always done
on this forum.

Foxy,

I guess that someone that has never left the comfort of the suburbs, the reality of war eludes you.

For decades the Tamil tigers have murdered thousands of civilians, bombed public places and used the North as their own private fiefdom and dictatorship. At some point the killing had to stop. The attack by the government wasn't completely clean, but the Tigers were deliberately hiding themselves amongst civilians who had to remain or be shot.

Now the war is over 5 years ago, the killing has stopped, and Sri Lanka is rebuilding, and the usual sanctimonious idiots are wanting to review the war through filters that have never been applied to any other conflict, and the Sri Lankan government is not impressed.

Without the government's support, the investigation is futile. The Sri lankan government's attempt to save its citizens from exploitation and dead at the hands of the people traffickers that Labor supported should be applauded.

SM,

You really appear to be a very ignorant man.

Take your blinkers off, stop spouting your
Party's mantra - and do a bit of research for
yourself -
as to what was going on in Sri Lanka five years
ago, and what's happening there now.
How the government controls the press - how they
still torture and kill people.

Stalin also denied the Ukraine Famine, and other atrocities.
The Soviet Regime has always denied the operation of concentration
camps - which they expanded into their draconian system
to include psychiatrict wards, thereby raising torture,
suppression, and murder to a science (vividly disclosed to
the free world by Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn).

Do your research on Sri Lanka - you just may learn something.

cont'd ...

SM,

You can start with this:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-25/howie-australias-silence-on-sri-lanka-is-deafening/5342796

Dear SM,

You wrote;

“TA's humanitarian credentials are far stronger than anyone's in Labor or the Greens, with decades as a volunteer for fire and surf rescue, fundraising for charity and involvement in indigenous affairs. The saving of hundreds of lives at sea is just the cherry on top.”

Excellent points, they are definitely going on the nomination form, and I have many mates who will be tickled pink to learn their involvement in the CFA and SLCs has now elevated them to 'great humanitarian' status.

And I think Foxy has a huge amount of cheek insinuating you are an apologist for war criminals. She needs to accept as the rest of us do that the Sri Lankan government has repeatedly stated there were NO CIVILIAN DEATHS in the closing stages of the war. In fact it clearly was in reality a vast humanitarian undertaking, or from your perspective, a grand rescue operation, for which the government should be applauded.

I really think Tony could extend his humanitarian credentials by explaining to our two biggest allies, Britain and the US, how wrong they were for sponsoring this resolution at the UN, to tell them it was a magnificent rescue mission and that they too should be arming the Sri Lankan military so it too can continue its great humanitarian endevours. I'm sure with his sterling humanitarian CV they will be all ears.

Anyway it looks like I have The Big Moof's endorsement that leaves one more spot to fill.

Foxy,

You definitely appear to be a very ignorant woman!

If you bothered to read up about the conflict in Sri Lanka over the last 5 decades referring to objective historians rather than left whinge opinion pieces, you might be able to offer more than fluffy generalities and incorrect figures.

The questions that need to be asked are:

- Whether the situation before the final phase of the war was sustainable. Given the the appalling atrocities committed by the Tamil tigers on a regular basis, the devastation of the economy and the grinding misery inflicted on all Sri Lankans the answer is clearly NO.
- Is the situation now is better than before the war was resolved and continuously improving, and the answer is an overwhelming YES.
- Was this a conventional war with defined targets and combatants easily differentiated from civilians? Clearly NO.
- Did the government forces have sophisticated weapons to enable them to selectively target enemy forces and spare civilian targets. Clearly NO.
- Did the government have highly trained and disciplined soldiers, NO.
- Did the Tigers deliberately mingle with civilians and actively use them as shields, YES.

All of these are recipes for disaster, and the final question that should be asked is whether the government army had any real alternative to ending the war, and the answer is not without drastically prolonging the war.

Using the filter modern humanitarians would like to apply that exceeds anything in the Geneva convention not only wildly unrealistic, but extremely unhelpful. Given that not only has this "inquiry" not got the support of the Security council or any of the countries in any position to assist, this is yet another example of gesture politics.

Sri Lanka may not be a model democracy, but is far better than most in the 3rd world, and vastly improved from 5 years ago. Most of the refugees are lifestyle migrants, and turning them around is the safest and most human option.

High Court agrees to hear challenge to processing asylum seekers on Manus Island.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-03/high-court-agrees-to-hear-challenge-to-processing-of-asylum-see/5364360

Shame this govt isn't powerful enough to nobble the High Court, eh?

Should be interesting....

SM,

Talking of ignorance your argument beggars belief.

That's like saying that Mugabe, Pol Pot, et al, were
not as bad as Stalin and Hitler.

Keep defending your Party's stance on this matter.
If you take pride in siding with China, Cuba,
Russia - instead of our allies, Great Britain, US,
Canada. Then I certainly don't. I suspect that Sir
Rober Menzies would turn over in his grave over your
arguments.

And I know which one of us he would consider to be
the ignorant one!

Yes Shadow Minister, & he should be given the guts award for doing what had to be done decisively & with conviction. The only thing worse than the disgusting Rudd's effort would for Abbott to have been half hearted in fixing the mess.

Interesting Poirot, that these jumped up judges should think they have any say in the matter. When did they get the idea they have any jurisdiction in a foreign country. I would expect the PNG government to say, see you in the international court in the Hague.

Do you think our peanuts in the high court would actually fund a case in the Hague from their own pocket. Not the sort of activity I see them indulging in, from previous actions. Getting on their high horse is about all they are good for.

It would be a better idea if they were to take off their clownish wigs & fancy dress, & try to join the rest of us in the real world, but that is most unlikely from such a bunch of clowns.

It was Australia's hand that put them there, that could be the problem, in any case you accepted the ruling on Malaysia and would not vote for legislation to overrule the ruling.
So i hope what goes around comes around.

Hasbeen

You are a hoot!

"...I would expect the PNG government to say, see you in the international court in the Hague."

Bring it on!

Every time I see Morrison, I picture that setting exactly....

The sooner the government stop spending our taxpayers funds on giving illegals access to the 'ambulance chaser' lawyers the better. Whoever first thought up giving these non citizens free legal representation was a bloody fool. Only Aus citizens should be able to get legal representation with our funds.

The Malaysian deal was different in that we were to just drop the illegals there. On Manus, we run the centre and do the processing.

The same applies to Nauru. But I do think the processing could be much tougher and the onus of proof put back on the illegal entrant

My suggestion of using Macquarie Island, looks better each day

Foxy,
Whether you/we like it or not what happens in other countries is really none of our business and if these elements try to get into our country they should be repelled and sent home.
These people (Sri Lanka) are being rounded up because they were anti government terrorists, nothing more and nothing less.
The government has the right to deal with them however they choose. They had their chance to change the government and failed now they must pay the price.
Having them come here under the guise of refugees and asylum seekers is a load of hogwash,
Don't bleed for them Foxy I am sure they would not for you.
As for the rest of these so called asylum seekers let them fight against what they see as tyranny in their own country not here.
Beforte these people came to Australia we had one of the lowest and least violent crime rate in the world.
Now, thanks to multiculturalism racist agendas we have close to the highest per capita.

Shadow Minister;
You forgot to mention that the majority of Sri Lankan refugees and asylum seekers coming to Australia are actually Tamil Tiger and their supporters too scared to face up to their treason's.

Foxy,

I am not siding with Russia, India or China, simply pointing out that without their support and the Sri Lankan support the inquiry is simply not going to happen. This is Realpolitik.

apparently you lack the intellectual horsepower to comprehend what I said and are ignorant of what actual comprises a war crime. I would recommend that you apprise yourself of the geneva convention and what is and isn't a human rights violation. Here's a news flash. War is nasty and people get hurt. Firing on an enemy area that contains civilians is not a crime, and the estimates of casualties was less than 7000 not 40 000 caused by both sides not just the government, compared to Rudd and Juliar killing nearly 2000.

Similarly the information to the commanders on a battlefield is sketchy at best, and any inquiry that wants to pick through the decisions made with 20/20 hindsight is simply a fishing expedition. If there are specific allegations of soldiers executing captured civilians then these should be raised as individual instances.

The real question is what is happening now. Are people still being shot at, or can Tamils go on with their lives safely. That is what determines whether a refugee is genuine, not what happened 5 years ago.

Spot-on Shadow Minister --in *ALL* your assessments.

Here are a few inconvenient facts the illegal immigration spruikers don't want to face up to:

<< more than 440,000 internally displaced persons (IDPs) have returned to the [Sri Lanka's] north, three years after government forces declared victory over the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), who had been fighting for an independent Tamil homeland for more than 25 years.>>

<<Since the end of the civil war, more than 5,000 Sri Lankans have returned to the island nation under a UNHCR-facilitated voluntary repatriation scheme. Most were from refugee camps in Tamil Nadu[India]>>

[Source for the above:humanitarian news and analysis -a service of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs]

Another little fib which these spruikers fed us much earlier in the piece was that India --COULDN'T & WOULDNT --ACCEPT TAMIL REFUGEES SINCE IT WASNT A MEMBER OF THE CONVENTION.

Dear Foxy,

You just don't seem to get the logic put forward by SM, Banjo, Chris and SPQR. It is the logic of true humanitarians.

You see if you apply it to history you get to see things far more clearly and enables you to sharply delineate the dictator from the humanitarian.

Take Saddam for instance. All those lefty agitators who whinged about the gassing of the Kurds needed to realise this was the act of a caring man. These were terrorists plain and simple, or in Chris' words treasonous. Sure there were women and babies included in the Kurdish villages, but did Saddam have any way of targeting just the fighters? No. To paraphrase Shadow Minister 'Gassing an enemy that is in civilian areas is not a crime', or as Chris says Saddam 'had the right to deal with them however he chose' and remember what happened internally was 'none of our business'.

But far, far, more importantly while in power Saddam kept such sterling control over his population that we hardly had any refugees risking their lives seeking perilous boat journeys to Australia. In fact I'm thinking a posthumous humanitarian award would correct the injustice. The form is going in alongside Tony's and Shadow Ministers in the morning.

You might well think the US and the UK saw him as a war criminal but just like their bid to have the Sri Lankan government investigated it is all a product of bleeding hearts liberals who know nothing of war. Indeed if those countries and ours had taken heed of our three humanitarians we would not have gone to war, so many lives would have been spared and Saddam could have been free to continue his great, caring work.

In my humble opinion Saddam stands beside our Tony and Shadow Minister as worthy of recognition as a great humanitarians by the Australian, and indeed the world community. Let us strive to honour these men in a manner they richly deserve.

Dear SM,

Chrisgraff has kindly agreed to be your final nominee. You're looking solid mate.

SteeleRedux

I agree Saddam's gassing of the Kurds and Rudd/Gillard's drowning of 1000s of women and children were all heartless grabs for power.

You have been nominated for the left whinger "they were exercising their right to drown" award.

@Steele & Co

<<It is the logic of true humanitarians...>>

Aye, Oz should adopt the SteeleRedux Humane-Immigration program -that ways, Saddam and the Tamil Tigers would all be safely re-settled somewhere in suburban Oz (far away from Steeleville or Foxyville no doubt).

Just like that poor fellow Ayatollah Khomeini who was given sanctuary in France, for years--before he decided to return home and start executing infidels.

Or the Madrid Bombers, a number of whom were given refugee status in Spain-- before they repaid Spain by setting off bombs in peak hour trains.

Or the Somalis given "refugee" status in Oz (or the US or Sweden)but return to fight for al-Shabaab in Somalia ...or Kenyan shopping centres.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Now that is a little unkind my friend, all I am doing is going off your cues. Might need to whisper in the old-shell like to keep me on message.

I am trying to the best of my ability to get Foxy to step into line with your humanitarian outlook. These seemed to be your eminently valid go to points so correct me if I have them wrong;

1. 'Because Russia and China have voted against it that is it, it should not happen.' Whew, if only they had listened to you there would have been no action in Iraq because both countries did the same then and your fellow humanitarian Saddam could have continued his admirable work.

2. People “are ignorant of what actual comprises a war crime”. Oh I'm most definitely on your side on this one. The Mullivaikal Hospital is just one of the many incidents flagged by these bleeding hearts as a war crime.

“Mullivaikal Hospital was a makeshift hospital located in the Safe Zone in northern Sri Lanka. An alleged series of shellings and aerial attacks began on 23 April 2009 when the Mullivaikal Hospital was hit by three artillery shells. It continued on 28 and 29 April when the Mullivaikkal Primary Health Center was hit multiple times over a two-day period with six killed and many injured including one medical staffer. On the 29th and the 30th the Mullivaikal Hospital was again hit multiple times with nine more killed and fifteen injured. There were two attacks against the Mullivaikal Hospital on 2 May, one at 9 a.m. and a second at 10.30 a.m. resulting in sixty-eight killed and eighty-seven wounded, including medical staffers. On the morning of 12 May 2009 it was hit by an artillery mortar, killing at least forty-nine patients and injuring more than fifty others.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullivaikkal_Hospital_bombings

Cont...

Cont...

You and I both know it was nothing of the kind. This place was treating amongst its patients Tamil fighters. Some of them made fit enough to fight so the bombing of this place saved countless Sri Lankan Army lives and prevented thousands of terrorists boarding boats for Australia. Humanitarian action of the highest order. Anyway as you have said “Firing on an enemy area that contains civilians is not a crime” and especially coming from a now nominated humanitarian like yourself it should be taken as a given.

3. “Similarly the information to the commanders on a battlefield is sketchy at best” and “War is nasty and people get hurt.” - But even given all that the Sri Lankan troops were well equipped to carry out their essentially humanitarian work because according to President Rajapaksa “Our troops carried a gun in one hand and a copy of the human rights charter in the other,”

Believe me Shadow minister I'm your biggest fan here and when you get your well deserved award no one will be more pleased than I.

Dear SPQR,

I was completely oblivious to the fact that Ayatollah Khomeini and the Madrid Bombers were Sri Lankan or that Somalia was a neighbouring country. Thank you for clearing that up my friend.

Yes, I must say that it's fascinating watching the machinations as Morrison, Bishop and Abbott go for their Senior Despot Badges.

....
SteeleRedux,

"Believe me Shadow minister I'm your biggest fan here and when you get your well deserved award no one will be more pleased than I."

Bless SM's cotton socks...same here.

Better not mention the boat that did get through to Melville Island by an "unusual route" as Morrison accidentally did on AM radio, nor the 4 people who drowned on that voyage.

We should also ignore the 3 refugees who drowned crossing a river while looking for a road when their "lifeboat" landed in some inhospitable area in Indonesia.

On Manus Island "Operation Sovereign Murders" seems to be working too.
I wonder if the killers are still on the taxpayer payroll, but that's probably a secret best kept from the public (I mean smugglers).

Humanitarian Award?
I can hear the acceptance speech now - "I'm the best friend refugees ever had".

Dear SteeleRedux,

I'm beginning to understand the points that you're making
to SM. And of course you're right.
The definition of war crimes depends not on what's was
actually committed - but who's our friend or enemy at the
time in which the atrocities were committed or who we want
our friend or enemy to be at the time or in the future.
In other words - what's right or wrong has nothing
to do with it. It's what's in it for
us politically. So of course under that broad definition
what SM claims is feasible - and historically has been proven
correct.

Apparently we can close our eyes and ignore so many things -
when it's in our political interests to do so. That's the
sad reality as we watch the evening news and listen to
Mr Abbott's explanations that "In difficult times,
difficult things happen." I wonder thoug, if the victims would
accept these explanations? But then, who really cares - right?
Obviously not Mr Abbott or SM.

Here you go, SM...some more "humanitarian" LNP supporters displaying the sort of integrity one expects from your side of politics these days.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/asylum-seeker-themed-university-pub-crawl-criticised-20140404-362md.html

"An asylum seeker themed pub crawl, hosted by The Queensland Universities Liberal National Club, has been criticised for trivialising "the dangerous and often tragic journey asylum seekers face and associated deaths at sea".

The Queensland Universities Liberal National Club Rivercrawl 2014 used aspects of the Abbott Government's border protection policy to promote the event via Facebook."

Details...

"The organisers boasted that after a BBQ to celebrate a hundred days of no boat arrivals, party goers would board a CityCat to commence operation sovereign borders and “smuggle” their way into a bar at the Queensland University of Technology.

Revellers could then “seek temporary protection” at another pub and if they felt “leaky” were assured they would be resettled.

Attendees were reminded to meet their regional processing requirements - a Go Card and identification - to avoid tow back, but entry was not guaranteed after all “we will decide who comes to the River Crawl and the circumstances in which they come“."

Etc.....

SR,

The issue that Abbott has saved many lives at sea is not in dispute, so already he has done for more for humanity than anyone from labor or the greens.

However, I am glad that you want to reward all the humanitarians from the left incl Rudd, Stalin, Gillard, Mao Tse Tung, Hansen young, etc who focused on pure humanitarian socialist principles and were happy to sacrifice thousands in a brutal fashion so as not to deviate from their principles.

The whole red herring of Sri Lanka, even the shelling of the Mullivaikal Hospital proves my point. The conclusion of the Commission is "that shells had in fact fallen on hospitals causing damage and resulting in casualties. However, the material placed before the Commission points to a somewhat confused picture as to the precise nature of events, from the perspective of time, exact location and direction of fire."

Which in layman's terms means that the hospital was shelled, but there is no conclusive evidence as to who shelled it or why. And with one sweeping stupid gesture this inquiry has guaranteed that no further information will be forthcoming whatsoever, probably for decades, and will achieve the exact opposite of its aims. I note the complete silence toward Tiananmen.

Give me grace to accept the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things which should be changed,
and the Wisdom to distinguish the one from the other.

As for the integrity of the labor party, we just need to look at Thomson, Williamson, Obied and Macdonald.

@Steele

If Steele had just left his comment at this: <<SPQR, I as completely oblivious>> who could have faulted him--not me!

But as he then pontificated-on about other matters I will have to throw my hat back into the ring.

There are two ways of exposing Steele's little sideshow. The first is to examine the credibility of his “evidence”.

He cut and pasted a little piece from Wiki:
“Mullivaikal Hospital…[came under an] An alleged series of shellings and aerial attacks beg[ining] on 23 April 2009 ….
on 28 and 29 April … the Mullivaikkal Primary Health Center was hit multiple times over a two-day period …
On the 29th and the 30th … Mullivaikal Hospital was again hit multiple times …[And] …There were two attacks against …Mullivaikal Hospital on 2 May…[and on] …12 May 2009 it was hit by an artillery mortar…

But in his tongue-dripping-haste to get a hanging verdict, he overlooked counter evidence in the same source:
“ Dr. Shanmugaraja said that he could only remember 4 instances of shelling; 1 on Vallipuram hospital, 1 on Puthukkudiyiruppu hospital, 1 on Mullivaikkal West makeshift hospital and 1 on Mullivaikkal East makeshift hospital…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies_Agreed_Upon

But even one incident is bad – we would be justified in asking *why might the Sri Lankan military even shell close to a hospital?*

Steele thinks he knows all the answers: “You and I both know ….This place was [targeted because it was] treating amongst its patients Tamil fighters. Some of them made fit enough to fight …” [all cut & dried,eh!]

But if Steele had cared to check he would have found this, again, in his same source:
“Dr. Sivapalan, medical officer of Chavakacheri and former medical officer - Vanni, claimed that LTTE had its commanding centres from within 100 metres of Puthukkudiyiruppu hospital, in which 2 artillery shells had fallen in February 2009. He also asserted that LTTE used heavy artillery as close as possible to the hospitals”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies_Agreed_Upon

Is this possible?
Have we heard about such ruses before?
Abso-bloody-lutely! And,strangely enough from Steeles other favourites Hamas & Hezbollah.

I am not proposing that the Sri Lankan government or military are angels. But I am suggesting the we need to be little bit more circumspect than hanging-judge Steele.

The second way to upset his sideshow is with this:
Let's suppose that Steele is right. The Sri Lankan military deliberately and systematic went out of its way to target hospitals—how does it justify/call-for Steeles (NOW) Open Door Policy re any Sri Lankan opportunist who boats in and cries "poor!"

Remembering, that:

The war is long over and
<< more than 440,000 internally displaced persons (IDPs) have returned to the [Sri Lanka's] north,>>

<<<< more than 5,000 Sri Lankans have returned to the island nation under a UNHCR-facilitated voluntary repatriation scheme. Most were from refugee camps in Tamil Nadu[India]>>

And the biggest political party in northern Sri Lanka is Tamil based:
<<The Tamil National Alliance (TNA)...on 30 seats in the 38-member provincial council in the former northern war zone, election officials said on Sundaÿ>>

They hardly sound like they cowering in the closet in fear, eh!

And lastly, let me say that I am very, very disappointed in that ,FOXY, our *alternative view point* source -- couldn't offer even a smidgen of opposition/alternative view point, and succumbed toSteeles kangaroo court-–you’re falling down on the job, girl!

Dear Foxy,

I am so glad you are finally coming around to accepting the deep humanitarian logic presented by Shadow minister. It is a measure of you as a person when you can view the repeated shelling of a hospital as an understandable act of a necessary war, or to put it in the Sri Lankan Prime Minister's own words 'a rescue mission'. Of course there are extra points if you can bring yourself to describe it as a 'red herring'. You keep playing your cards right and there will be a seat for you right next to Tim Wilson.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Slight hiccup I'm afraid, the selection panel has insisted I subtract the 755 who drowned after our Tony rejected the Malaysian Swap (for purely humanitarian reasons of course) in 2011 from those he has said to have saved since being in power. I think we will have to take the deal because there are some who, quite unfairly, want those deaths attributed directly to him. A bit rough I feel so I have agreed to the subtraction. I still think we have to make sure we continue to highlight the 262 who drowned under Labour up to that point.

Anyway Tony gave a full and frank explanation when he apologised to the Malaysian Prime Minister;

“"I offered an act of contrition, if you like, to Prime Minister Najib for the way Malaysia got caught up in what was a very intense and at times somewhat rancorous debate in Australia. He knows we play our politics pretty hard in our country,"

That really should have been the end of it.

Dear SPQR,

Wow! Now that is impressive. I certainly have a lot to learn from you.

You took my quote;

“Mullivaikal Hospital was a makeshift hospital located in the Safe Zone in northern Sri Lanka. An alleged series of shellings and aerial attacks began on 23 April 2009 when the Mullivaikal Hospital was hit by three artillery shells. It continued on 28 and 29 April when the Mullivaikkal Primary Health Center was hit multiple times over a two-day period with six killed and many injured including one medical staffer. On the 29th and the 30th the Mullivaikal Hospital was again hit multiple times with nine more killed and fifteen injured. There were two attacks against the Mullivaikal Hospital on 2 May, one at 9 a.m. and a second at 10.30 a.m. resulting in sixty-eight killed and eighty-seven wounded, including medical staffers. On the morning of 12 May 2009 it was hit by an artillery mortar, killing at least forty-nine patients and injuring more than fifty others.”

And turned it into this;

““Mullivaikal Hospital…[came under an] An alleged series of shellings and aerial attacks beg[ining] on 23 April 2009 ….
on 28 and 29 April … the Mullivaikkal Primary Health Center was hit multiple times over a two-day period …
On the 29th and the 30th … Mullivaikal Hospital was again hit multiple times …[And] …There were two attacks against …Mullivaikal Hospital on 2 May…[and on] …12 May 2009 it was hit by an artillery mortar…”

Comprehensively stripped of any humans. Of course you are right to do so. Any discussion about humanitarian actions could only be ill served by clouding it with real casualties. It should remain as logical and pragmatic as possible.

Best also to use authoritative accounts that way when we present our case we can do so without accusations of bias; “Lies Agreed Upon is an documentary produced by Sri Lanka Ministry of Defence.”

Foxy should be taking notes.

BTT

<Mr Abbott and Immigration Minister Scott Morrison held a media conference today to say it had been 100 days since an asylum-seeker boat had reached Australian shores — and that over the same period under Labor there were 66 boat arrivals. With nearly 4000 illegal immigrants.

With an estimated average of 4% of illegal immigrants dying at sea, Abbott has already saved about 150 lives and is happy to continue this humanitarian work.

“It's too early to declare the job has been done but nevertheless we can safely say that the way is closed,” the Prime Minister said.>

Quite an achievement and made even more difficult by the sympathisers of illegal migrants and others who make a living out of them.

All western countries have an illegal migrant problem. Some have drownings at sea, while others find dead in shipping containers and so on. It is despicable that anyone would support people smugglers, yet in Australia there are some who even claimed that these criminal gangs were innocent too!

Hi Steele,

<<You took my quote...Comprehensively stripped of any humans...>>
The point was to juxtapose your source which sought to paint the attacks as concerted campaigns against the hospital(s)that continued over many days -- with another source which portrayed them as isolated incidents.

<<Best also to use authoritative accounts ...[not Sri Lankan govt sources]>>
LOL if you were really concerned about "authoritative", you'd have to discount i) Any Tamil sources ii) Any human rights gravy-train-passenger sources and iii) any journalist after-a-sensationalist-headline-story sources--and what would you have left after that,eh?

<<Foxy should be taking notes>>
Don't worry, don't worry Foxy is over at New Matilda desperately searching their archives for something to link us to bolster your failing!--FAILED-- prosecution.

Humanitarian, i don't know if manus is humanitarian. And what about negotiating with pol pot about taking some of that humanitarian work.
One mill / refugee for resettlement sounds fair.

OtB
I do not expect an ongoing perfect score, but it is gratifying at this point. The message will get out as I hear there are less illegals arriving in Malaysia and Indonesia.

The costs will be lowered as more get sick of being detained and elect to go home and that should be encouraged. We then can progressively shut down the detention centres.

Morrison needs to keep telling the illegals that they will not get residence in Aus and that they will never be able to bring their relos here. I wonder if we fingerprint them in case they try again. That should be a big cross on their record and a note against any relos. Keep up the good work, Morrison gets my encouragement award.

Steele,

Now you are really grasping at straws. The war in Sri Lanka that occurred 5 years ago is red herring precisely because it has nothing to do with Abbott. You failed to show how Abbott should not have any dealings with Sri Lanka because of their war crimes, yet the only example you have given has been demolished by SPQR, and rejected by the UN commission. TA has not in any way condoned the actions during the war, but chose constructive engagement with Sri Lanka to save lives rather than Labor's fascination with futile gesture politics and letting people drown.

Secondly your feeble claim that TA should have supported Juliar stripping all remaining asylum seeker protections to support the Malaysian solution, and thus shares culpability fails on so many levels:

1 It wasn't working. The boats had slowed not stopped under the threat of being sent to Malaysia, but the 800 people limit was almost full by the time of the court case, and was in reality already failed. The Malaysian solution was yet another failed thought bubble like the East Timor solution.

2 TA stopped the boats completely in 3 months without labor's protection stripping laws simply by doing what they had been begging labor to try for years.

3 Juliar promised in 2010 that she would not send illegals to non signatory countries, and her as her coalition had a majority in the lower and upper houses, how on earth can you try to pin responsibility on the coalition to help Labor break another promise to the electorate?

The deaths at sea from 2008 to 2013 unambiguously fall at Labor's feet. Labor simply could not bring itself to admit that Abbott had been right all along, or to abandon its claims that the refugees were being pushed not pulled, and that the pacific solution had failed, and rather let nearly 2000 people die rather than admit it had been wrong.

Arafat, Peres and Rabin were awarded the Nobel peace prize, not sainthood because they had made the compromises necessary to achieve the better good, as has TA.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I think you may have, completely inadvertently of course, got your commissions mixed up.

The UN commission to which you referred is actually a bunch of bleeding heart do gooders without a humanitarian bone in their body. They would have us believe "the conduct of the war represented a grave assault on the entire regime of international law designed to protect individual dignity during both war and peace".
http://www.un.org/News/dh/infocus/Sri_Lanka/POE_Report_Full.pdf

It found amongst other things that;

The Sri Lankan military shelled on large scale the three Safe Zones where it had encouraged the civilian population to concentrate. It did this even after saying it would cease using heavy weapons.

The Sri Lankan military systematically shelled hospitals on the frontlines. All hospitals in the Vanni were hit by mortars and artillery, sometimes repeatedly, despite the Sri Lankan military knowing their locations.

The Sri Lankan military shelled the UN hub, food distribution lines and Red Cross ships coming to rescue the wounded and their relatives. It did this despite having intelligence as well as notifications by the UN, Red Cross and others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_of_the_Secretary-General%27s_Panel_of_Experts_on_Accountability_in_Sri_Lanka

All complete nonsense of course and completely demolished by the Commission you were actually quoting from. That one is far more authoritative and unbiased than the UN's. It was specifically set up by the Sri Lankan government to counter the obvious lies being propagated by the UN and the US State Department. This 8 person panel even included a Tamil representative, how more fair could it have possibly been. It also had among its members people well placed to give incredibly well informed advice since both the chairman C.R. de Silva and member H.M.G.S. Palihakkara were senior government representatives during the final year of the war. Here is Palihakkara on CNN specifically denying the GSL forces were firing near or at hospitals.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2009/02/03/stout.sri.lanka.war.zone.cnn?iref=videosearch

I've just been emailed asking if you would consider paid employment as a Sri Lankan government spokesperson in Australia. I've expressed my great esteem for the efforts by you in ensuring the truth about the humanitarian efforts of the SLG are given full voice.

SR,

I have heard that you have been requested to lead Labor's spin team, and that your first task will be to convince the voters that Thomson was making humanitarian donations to the prostitutes and that his next action is a 3 month fact finding study of prison conditions.

Your increasingly shrill efforts to show that the UN inquiry is needed is actually irrelevant. Abbott is trying to stop people drowning today, not 5 years ago, and a "principled" boycott of the Sri Lankan government will kill people no matter how sanctimonious Labor feels about it.

My point is not that there should be no inquiry, but rather that without the co operation of Sri Lanka, India, Russia, and China, amongst others, the possibility of any meaningful inquiry is zero. The UN report contains "credible allegations" but beyond that contains little to nothing to hold anyone to account.

From your own link I found "The conclusion of the Commission is "that shells had in fact fallen on hospitals causing damage and resulting in casualties. However, the material placed before the Commission points to a somewhat confused picture as to the precise nature of events, from the perspective of time, exact location and direction of fire." This is an excellent example of the lack of detail the UN has on what occurred.

In the time that Labor's department of immigration and body recovery ran the border protection nearly 2000 died. There should be an inquiry in the culpable negligence of Rudd, Juliar and Bowen.

Dear Shadow Minister,

The enthusiasm with which you embrace the commission's findings are indeed admirable and duly noted. As the prospective mouthpiece for the Sri Lankan government you can look forward to being reimbursed handsomely. However there is some concern that you may be confusing readers with the ownership of your quote. This came directly from the independent, unbiased, unstacked, Sri Lankan government commission. Not the UN. I'm sure you will not make the same mistake again.

These slips are inadvertent, even our most seasoned spokesperson for the humane treatment of refugees is capable of it.
http://youtu.be/P8pnnVwcPUU

You wrote;

“Abbott is trying to stop people drowning today, not 5 years ago”.

Actually his rejection of the Malaysian Solution was only 3 years ago but the point is well made. You obviously feel his actions of not trying to stop people drowning then was to ensure he could assume the reins of power and so stop more drowning now. I see his and your deep humanitarian logic at work. I'm off to buy a new tie for your award ceremony.

SR,

Well I am glad that you have come to accept that Labor were responsible for thousands that died at sea, and that the Malaysian solution was a bust, but you are showing typical left whinger tendencies to try and blame others for your own stuff up. "the dog ate my homework" and "the opposition wouldn't let us strip all the protections from the refugees"

No one bought it and they tossed labor out on its Rs.

The final result is:
Boats kill people, Labor could have stopped them but wouldn't, Abbott had the spine to do so and should be acknowledged for it and the lives saved.