Dear o sung wu,

I'm not sure we need to unsheath the broad-swords over this again so permit me to make this point.

My experiences growing up in Asian as a teenager, going to schools where the largest majority of the student body were from an Islamic culture, and mixing with Muslim families on a social level, is a far cry from your experiences of dealing with the criminal element in Sydney.

Interacting with people of the Muslim faith in my current location and time of life has only served to strengthen my knowledge that these people are very much like the rest of us, with many of the same hopes, dreams, aspirations and problems blessing or besetting the rest of us all.

Therefore I hope we can both appreciate we have different perspectives and that they shape our individual world outlook in unique ways.

So to paraphrase your good self 'I assert, it is my strongly held belief, the Muslim religion, is both reconcilable and compatible with our definitive and classic lifestyle. Moreover, Islam is not in direct opposition to our more importantly held values, and principles.'

I hope I appreciate how racist tendencies or stereotyping may well be harder to keep at bay on the job so to speak. I'm sure if you were seconded to LA police force to deal with the gang culture there you would have to a strong person not to succumb to adopting a jaundiced view of Latinos for instance. In my view it is akin to a workplace injury.

But I also know such views can be destructive and divisive and it is something I will continue to speak against.

Kind regards,

SteeleRedux

Hi (again) STEELEREDUX...

Now that puts quite a different perspective on where you're coming from I believe ? Having been raised in Indonesia (perhaps?) I do fully appreciate the views and opinions you hold, much more clearly now I think.

There's no doubt, they the Indonesians are quite a warm, generous group when your have a need to deal with them individually. In fact they're probably more giving than us, in reality ?

Accordingly, it's appropriate that I now gracefully defer further comment apropos the suitability or otherwise, for Islamic settlement in this country. However this apparent capitulation should not be seen as extending to those individuals, who happen to reside in the Middle East, not by a long shot.

Steele,

You have demonstrated my point, you have shown yourself to be (what Tony Abbott might describe as) a "suppository" of misinformation.

We’ll go through your issues , one at a time:

1) You chose to open this thread with an attack on some FRINGE GROUP Christians who you feared might be given access to present their sexual mores and anti-evolution material to pupils. Their religious instruction was to take place a few hours per week. So minor, it was hardly be much of an influence –- you protested loudly.
Yet, the same mores are MAINSTREAM and CORE values in many bigger non-Christian groups and are being presented full-on in their religious schools (AND by their representatives when they visit to instruct children at state schools) -- you made no acknowledgement of it (till I twisted your arm).
Some might say, well, that was perhaps just an oversight, or perhaps this particular incident caught Steele’s attention . But having followed your posts over a long period I have come to note a propensity on your part to miss criticism-worthy acts by non-Christian (and non-Jewish)religious groups.

2) You brought up the issue people laughing at others who look or act differently. I made (rather tame) point that humans generally will find amusement in someone who looks or act differently. But like others of your persuasion you tried to make it an sermon on inter-ethnic relations. Implying such was the reason why so many distrusted Muslims *to know them is to love them*. And then linked to some newspaper report that gives a very hearsay account of what is *alleged* to be a racially motivated attack. And tried to make capital out of it ala *if only the alleged attackers had gotten to know the alleged victim this would never have happened*

3) Then there’s this bit of guff : “My experiences growing up in Asia…" It appears that your experience of Indonesia was very limited—rather like living on the north shore of Sydney and telling those in the western suburbs to put up with it --see here:

“The number of violations of Christians' religious rights in Indonesia reached 40 in the first five months of the year, nearly two-thirds the amount of anti-Christian actions in all of last year….

The Christian minority in Indonesia faced 64 cases of violations of religious freedom last year, up from 47 in 2010, said Theophilus Bela, president of the group. Bela said he was worried about the growing incidence of violence and church closures, as his group recorded just 10 anti-Christian incidents in 2009. There were 40 such incidents in 2008, he said.

At least 22 churches have been forced to close this year, including 18 in the Singkil regency of Aceh Province that were sealed last month, as local authorities either sided with or came under pressure from extremist Islamist groups in this Southeast Asian archipelago that is home to the world's largest Muslim population, according to Bela.

The closures in Aceh followed last month's election of a hard-line Islamic governor. Bela said that after his organization's intervention the closed churches in Aceh began worshipping again on May 13, but unconfirmed reports indicate other churches in the area have since been forced to close.
http://www.persecution.org/2013/03/08/rising-intolerance-across-indonesia-leads-to-violent-attacks-against-christians/

So okay, you haven’t lived in Indonesia for some time –but you could hardly have missed that Indonesia was not the sort of window display of Islamic tolerance you were (MIS)leading us to believe!

Notice a common tilt in your posts?

Dear o sung wu,

I thank you for appreciating my position and hopefully I have expressed some small understanding of how you may have come to your own. I do not consider either of us 'capitulating'.

I think it is a natural human tendency to 'tar with the same brush'. It takes thought and effort to move to a better grasp of what is reality.

I'm involved in coaching junior sports and interact with Sudanese lads who are an absolute joy to see play as well as being polite and respectful to their seniors (like me). The show great heart and humour, have big ready grins, and a love for athletic movement which is infectious. But I am not blind to reports of problems in other places, especially the more depressed areas, involving the same demographic.

I do not think Australia is in a great place right now. The 'boat people' issue has been exploited by both our major parties in their hunger for power and this has in turn impacted attitudes toward our new citizens. It was really sobering to watch Q&A last Monday night when there was a small moment at the end where the four international guests briefly reflected among themselves a sense of surprise at where this nation, so long regarded as a leader in tolerance and human rights, was now headed.

I happen to think we are capable of much better.

Dear The Big Moof SPQR,

Sorry mate, I was trying to figure out why you are getting so cranky and I reckon it might be because I neglected to use your newly acquired honorific. Feel free to pull me up if I am showing that kind of disrespect again.

In my last post I wrote;

“I invite you to read through your post and try and pick up where if fails. I hope you are able to see there was no attempt to address, or offer an opinion, on the topic at hand.”

Yet in your latest two voluminous posts you again gave us nothing.

To paraphrase your own words: 'You have demonstrated my point, you have shown yourself to be' far more concerned with sniping rather than offering an opinion yourself.

I think people come to a site like this to see opinions put and differences between them aired, and to participate themselves. I find my own opinions have often been adjusted though the interaction OLO provides.

But to not have your own opinions to buttress your flailing at others makes for a pretty poor spectacle. You can't have failed to “Notice a common tilt in your posts?”

So yet again I humbly ask, do you have an opinion on the topic at hand? Perhaps if you furnish that we can get to some of the other matters you have raised.