runner I started on a alternate list to help staff those ethics classes. Comprised of christian leaders who have been convicted of seriously unethical behaviour. Decided it was a pointless exercise but plenty of material available.

Any list you make be selectively picking badly behaved non believers can readily be matched by a similar selective picking of people who believe in your god (or have portrayed belief well enough to convince a lot of other believers).

When you get down to it though it's not a honest game. Its selectively portraying the other side by the selective use of examples that bother us and ignoring the majority. From what I've seen most christians are no more scammers or obsessed by child porn than most unbelievers, nor in my experience are christains any more honest or decent in their treatment of others than most unbelievers.

R0bert

SteeleRedux

good to see you are finally able to see all man is corrupt. It certainly taken you some time.

Dear o sung wu,

Thank you for your posts.

You wrote;

“Actually, I don't believe religion of any type should be permitted to be taught in state schools.”

I am actually going to disagree with you on this one I'm afraid. I think religion is so infused within our world that approaching questions about what motivates people to act in a certain manner without some understanding of what religion entails would ultimately hamstrung our youth.

Plus I do have a sense that an understanding of cultural Christianity would allow a better appreciation of certain aspects of the history of this country.

You see I have little problem with a devout Christian or a Moslem, or a Buddist coming to a school to address the children therein. I however think it is vitally important that a trained teacher is there at all times and that those speaking preface their words with 'This is what I believe' rather than 'This is how it is'. Also that the children are very much aware the perspective given is just one of many.

To me one of the greatest contributors to intolerance is ignorance. For instance if children see someone in the street with 'a funny turban' or 'a silly hat and long sideburns' or a 'man wearing a silly dress' what might be a cause for fear or derision may well be viewed in an entirely different light if they had been able to converse with such individuals in a controlled questioning environment.

However these people should not have unattended access to impressionable children in our state schools. The temptation to proselytise must be firmly countered whenever it is evident.

Finally that as a secular nation we have managed to accommodate people from many faiths without the rancour seen in many other countries. It is something that we should continually strive to protect and enhance.

Steele,

You're becoming a right windbag, you're all over OLO huffing and puffing...just a couple of minor issues with your last post,you say:

<<You see I have little problem with a devout Christian or a Moslem, or a Buddist coming to a school to address the children therein. I however think it is vitally important that a trained teacher is there at all times [to moderate things]>>

I must say I don't share your trust in teachers. It has been my experience that a good number of them are just as one-eyed and doctrinaire as the religious figures you seek to protect the children from.

Some of the misinformation I have heard put about to impressible young undergrads would knock your socks off --well, maybe not your socks since it's the sort of guff you put about too...but it would knock the socks off most clear thinking persons, so there is no guaranteed protection in teachers.

And this verges on the very thing I am talking about:
<< one of the greatest contributors to intolerance is ignorance. For instance if children see someone in the street with 'a funny turban' or 'a silly hat and long sideburns' or a 'man wearing a silly dress' what might be a cause for fear or derision may well be viewed in an entirely different light if they had been able to converse with such individuals in a controlled questioning environment.>

It is a natural condition of humans to see things that are different as "funny". The fact that one perceives someones dress or manner as "funny" is not in itself intolerance.

PS Just a question out of left field: have you undertaken a writing/creative writing course of late? The reason why I ask is your level of expression seems to improved markedly over your first incarnation (CSteele) --your content is still at the load of bollocks level --but your style has improved a mark or two.

'afternoon to you STEELEREDUX...

You've stated '...To me, one of the greatest contributors to intolerance is ignorance...' ? I'd not agree with you there. Therefore I'd like to draw your attention to matters we'd discussed some months ago concerning an antithetical view I'd expressed, as to whether or not, these Islamic people would make consummate immigrants for this country ?

Prior to my work as a detective amongst these Islamic conclaves and hordes, within Sydney's Bankstown region and it's environs, I was like most Aussies, somewhat ambivalent as to whether a non Christian group would make an affirmative addition to our (Australian) culture and way of life ? After some very adverse exposure to these people, I further asserted, it was my strongly held belief, all Islamic ideology, was both irreconcilable and incompatible with our definitive and classic lifestyle. Moreover, Islam was in direct opposition to our more importantly held values, and principles.

You see STEELEREDUX, my absolute intolerance of Islam is not borne out of ignorance, rather that of knowledge. A knowledge thoroughly gained, by a protracted exposure to some of Sydney's worst Islamic criminals ! A more destructive group, to good urban unity and cohesion, then you'd ever wish to find ?

Dear SPQR,

You wrote;

“You're becoming a right windbag”

Interesting, straight to DEFCON 4. I suspect these exchanges are becoming a little tiresome for the other readers but hell, in for a penny in for a pound as they say.

As you seem intent to follow me “all over OLO huffing and puffing” I think it is incumbent on me to try and instil some basic principles of clear thinking and concise argument.

I invite you to read through your post and try and pick up where if fails. I hope you are able to see there was no attempt to address, or offer an opinion, on the topic at hand,

Every other poster on this thread set out their own view on whether religion should be taught in schools (the post from runner the only exception). You failed to do so.

Whatever you may think about teachers a 4 year degree course would prepare someone in the role of a teacher to a far greater extent than a 6 hours of RI instruction costing the participant $15.

If you feel the point is 'bollocks' and 'guff' then fine, but to me, and I suspect the majority of readers, would see this as a waste of time.

As to 'funny' hats kids do grow into young men and women and some play football.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/footy-trip-race-attack-probe/2006/10/17/1160850895893.html

I would argue that had these lads been given the opportunity to get to know an orthodox Jew in a classroom setting, and being encouraged to understand why they dress and act the way they do, then this behaviour would have either not occurred or been pulled up very quickly by others on the bus. Unlike runner I think most human beings are generally kind and empathetic toward others when given the chance.

As to my writing style I thank you. I had felt it had become a touch more bombastic as since the early days I have succumbed to the temptation to throw back what ever is chucked my way. Perhaps you have a predilection for bombast that may well be clouding you judgement.