Here is an article about the Islamic impact on the UK, which the polies there seem to ignore.

We seem hell bent on doing the same here in Aus.

http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/02/17/britains-fate-sealed-muslim-baby-boom/

Is this the future we want for the generations that will follow us?

And so many of our lefties on here scoff at boat people being referred to as an unarmed invasion.

The really funny thing is "OUR" ABC. How can the home of homosexuals, & women's lib, be so pro the boat people & Muslim invasion.

The very first things to go, [quite probably to the chopping block, or to the square to be stoned], will be all those feminists & poofters from the ABC.

Those who are against it have the most to gain. Just imagine obedient wives, easy divorce, just one black dress thing & a pair of sandals to have your lady in full style. That means no more homosexual dress designers either, & we'd save a fortune.

We have so much to gain, why are we resisting?

Just kidding Foxy.

the vacumm left by secularism and the hatred of Christianity by the god deniers are simply reaping what is sown. We are heading the same way.

The part that should concern people is quote.

"One example being in 2010 it was revealed that over 50% of Muslim men and over 75% of Muslim women were economically inactive in the UK."

Totally supported by taxpayers, reminds me of the Government statistic around 2011 where 85% of the refugees were still on welfare even though they had been here over 5 years.

Unlike Labor and the Greens Abbott is doing something about it.

banjo..its one of them fringe issues..[most talked about..in usa]
there..THEY SAY THE PLAN..IS TO..outnumber..yankies..with mexicans so they can 'take our guns'..ITS EXPECTED..[WRONGLY]..THAT ALL VOTING MUSLIMS VOTE THE SAME WAY[thats of course a fear delusION]

SEE my parents left..netherlands..to come to new hollanD[VAN die mens land]..after ww2 wrecked many homes and all the good homes were given..by the landlord to the yanki hoards/in occupation.

there were jobs jobs jobs a pLENTY..OF COURSE..but no chance OF EVER OWNING YOUR OWN HOME..nor fultime work..SO THEY BOUGHT INTO..the australian dream..raised aussie kids..in their own home etc[lived the australian dream]

but the things is..the kids are aussiE
JUST AS THE MUSLIM KIDS WILL BE UK'S OR USA's
anyhOW WE WENT..HOME..back in the 60.s..and lo and behold the elites had simply moved in muslims/who did the renting and the low paid jobs..our parents were too good to be doing for pennies.

anyhoW..in the homelands..my parents left..to invade others homelands
THE LOWER CLASSES MOVED OUT..AND THE NEW LOWER CLASSES MOVED IN..[i think iTS A natural thing/A HUMAN NATURE THING.

i RECALL MEETING WITH african americans..who cOME HERE AND SEE our first people/and cant believe how good we got it here/compared to usa

thing is mate..its called civilization..[it replaced invasion/war]
i suppose they would be more happy if the Norsemen..came a genociding [pillaging raping/conquering..like we done in europia foR MILLENIA.]

YES HOW DARE THEY..

BUT ECOnomics 101..wins everytime

i think its called yankies go home..or send the pomies home to fix this statistical racism

its sort of like complaining ya wife sHACKED UP..with some 'grub'
CAUSE YOU WALKED OUT..its not as IF..its even worth discussion..its just the way..things go

yOU DONT LIKE IT
you can allways go there..and fix it.

2 b
ctd

BUT MATE..dont expect to come..'home'..to the same place
see once they seen the yanki troops standard of life/living..they wanted it.

THINK..MATE..IF WE GO TO THEIR HOME/BOast about how good our life is..of course they want it[we could stop it..by not going to their homes blowing them back to the stone age

that way..they wouldnt..know how good our place is
who wanTS to watch the yanies having everything..they got the taste for the good life..[because they betrayed their own[in ozzie we call em coconuts/white on the inside..[mate they took our side/thus they rejected their heritage]

the last thing they want..IS to MAKE THIS PLACE LIKE THEIR we//made their HOMELANds..they took our side fighting their own people[dont tell the kids]

just talking about it leads NO WHERE
[its much like watching porn really]

some watch others doing it
some like talking about it

BUT THE ACTUAL DOING OF IT PROPERLY?
NOPE TOO HARD..sorry not yelling..[what we hate in other we fear in ourselves]..if its any consolation..IN 200 YEARS THE new norm is chinese...[you would think one child policy will work in uk..IT DID WONDERS IN CHINA]

anyhow..is it..the god aspect you dislike..[FEAR]..
OR THEIR GODLESSNESS..OR THEIR GOD..[i know good fences make good neighbors]..but if we step back..we see the same same same [play iT AGAIN..SAM..

SAME SAM
SAME SAME SHAME..
FORGET the same old FEARS/../we can find soME NEW ONES]

NT

Banjo while I have not yet done so I read the British press every morning.
And all over Europe the signs are there people have had enough.
We are on a slippery slope about ten years, no more behind England.

You will think me stupid, but it is my view the UN and others are trying for one people one world and we are seeing this migration pattern forced on us as first move.
We think of today the UN thinks of a hundred years on, they wast their efforts war will be forced on us long n before that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562957/Muslim-leaders-issue-fatwa-against-living-MARS-no-righteous-reason-there.html
Madness? yes purely insane.
A chance however to ask why is the word allowing this purely insane religion to rule?
No hoax! it is true!
And from mainstream British press.
If want a laugh goggle Muslim conspiracy theory,s and see the belief Coke is a western plot to make young Muslims penis drop off!

Islam is an ideology that uses religion as an 'other-self' in its desire for/attempt at World domination and as such should be banned in any country that so desires.

Time is running out.

Belly,

Those Muslim conspiracy theories are a hoot!

Loved this one,
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Conspiracy_Theories#Coca-Cola_logo_is_anti-Islamic

and here's the link to many more,
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Conspiracy_Theories#Americans_and_Christians_responsible_for_the_creation_and_spread_of_AIDS

Have a good laugh but be warned, if you stop to think, you may weep.

Here we go again. Yet another round of fear-and-loathing.

Based on what?

"One example being in 2010 it was revealed that over 50% of Muslim men and over 75% of Muslim women were economically inactive in the UK."

The "statistic" that starts it all off came from this 2010 report:

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/key-projects/how-fair-is-britain/full-report-and-evidence-downloads/

The report details all the factors associated with Muslim unemployment in the UK, including:

"...male Muslim unemployment is 9% compared to the national average of 5%." p.405

...and...

"The proportion of Muslim people who have never worked, are long-term unemployed or students or do not have a class specified, is much higher than for Christian people (46% compared to 17%) partly reflecting the much younger age profile of this group" p.708

Using carefully-selected "statistics" to generate antipathy towards a particular group of people is a tactic as old as the hills. As is the classification of individuals into easy targets by the press, designed to fuel existing preconceptions and prejudice, in order to sell newspapers. Especially the Daily Mail...

>>No hoax! it is true! And from mainstream British press.<<

The percentage of the UK population who are Muslim? 4.8%

'Nuff said.

Dear Banjo,

You sound like my younger brother (he's a Principal of a
Catholic School). And many of my other relatives also have
the same fears - including my husband. I don't like to
pre-judge people no matter what their religion, race,
colour, et cetera. I take people as I find them and in most
cases I've been pleasantly surprised. I think that human beings
are the most extraordinary creatures, and a big part of me still
wants to reach an even greater understanding of who we are.
Not because I need to know more, necessarily, but because I
am drawn to the process of discovery.

In this country we've gone through various stages of fearing
the "differences" in our newcomers to this land - and together
through interaction and discussion have managed to sort a
great many of our problems out. We're still a work in progress,
of course. Frankly, I don't see a problem with Muslims - because
the percentage of our population of Muslims is so small (as
Pericles pointed out - as they also are in the UK). So I can't
see them making such a huge impact here. Besides religious
laws have no legal status in this country - and people do have
to obey our laws or take the consequences.

Your fears are understandable. But I'm sure given time they
will prove to be unwarranted. Anyway, Thank You for your
concern - especially about archaic customs like FGM - which
you've raised in the past

Of course, we'll head in the same direction.
And it won't even matter if we see street battles with thousands dead in London, Paris or Amsterdam on the news.

Because Australia's different.
Our multiculturalism is a "success", so no need to worry.

We should never have opened the door to Third World immigrants.
Their lack of development is symptomatic of a lack in many fundamental elements of modern society.

Progressives proclaim they're our "equal", yet the evidence (e.g. GDP per capita, human development index) says otherwise.

Perhaps they are *potentially* equal, but mostly they have yet to live up to that potential.
We should restrict immigration from any country without "very high human development" (like us, #2) AND at least two thirds our GDP per capita, until they reach that level.

Individuals from restricted countries whose personal annual income is at least equal to our average may be accepted.

Those "very highly developed" immigrants will probably share similar modern life experience and values to Australians, causing little disruption to our stable society.

But no, that would result in a policy highly biased toward countries with White populations.
Egad!

So look forward to more of the same. Forever. No matter what.

Foxy,

".... I don't like to
pre-judge people no matter what their religion, race,
colour, et cetera. I take people as I find them and in...."

How about their political ideology?

You cannot tell the full story and convictions of a person at face meeting as we experience from con persons and pedophiles. We need to know their cultural convictions and private views. Those that practice F.G.M. child brides, multiple wives, etc i'm sure are very nice people but with different private convictions.

Dear Is Mise,

I don't pre-judge a person's political ideology
as such, what I do is react to misinformation,
slogans, and rhetoric - as well as inept and
corrupt reporting and finger-pointing. And this
is not restricted to only one side of politics.
BTW - my views are not set in concrete - and I do
try to keep an open-mind. Of course when the right
buttons are pushed I do react - as we all do, I'm
sure you'll agree.

Foxy,

You are happy with Stalinist Communists?

You wouldn't pre-judge them based on their outspoken desire to convert/rule the world?

The one that wasn't a Marx brother would love you and Lennin would shake your hand.

The difference between Communism (as practiced in Russia) and Islam is that Communists could be reasoned with to some extent.

THIS EXPLAINS MUCH..AS TO WHY THE MEDIA is beating UP/BIAS*
were GOING TO WAR/based on a false flag/nuke fuse detonation...'somewhere'..THIS THEY MUst do before lybia votes

the fail safe..is a little further north
its the multiHEADEDhydra..colonizers...REAPING
LOOTING PILAGING..THE FINAL Booty/bubble/value..from you.

EVERYTHING..from ya social security/to ya pensions..
to ya savings and YA public services..YEP EVEN Your kids..and their ability..to breed.

http://rss.infowars.com/20140219_Wed_Alex.mp3

ALEX DOSNT SAY It..but its a red flag
linked to the endtime..there is so many promises for 'petro/dollars'
out there..the price OF usa/prICED FUEL IS going to fall through the floor..THEN HYPER INFLATION

AS THE MONEY system..bites off its various bits/SAVINGS PENSIONS/assets

AS THE ASSETS WE BUILT Get sold off for scrap..[and the builders clean up building it again]..clearly we need begin again/from scratch..but nOT DESTROY OUR EARTH FURTHER..rebuilding it all over.

its not the right path
so whats the right path
gnosis..KNOWING..STOPPING THE ROT
it begins wITH THE MEDIA BEATUPS/SPIN..and the sleepers sleep.

http://republicbroadcasting.org/Stang/index.php?cmd=archives.month&ProgramID=77&year=14&month=2&backURL=index.php%253Fcmd%253Darchives.getyear%2526ProgramID%253D77%26year%3D14%26backURL%3Dindex.php%253Fcmd%253Darchives

Dear Is Mise,

Perhaps I didn't explain things properly in my previous
post.

Our political views stem from notions of what we consider
responsible, moral and reasonable. People don't usually
think uniformly - therefore as far as politics
is concerned - there are often marked differences
in all political points of view between people - even within
the same political parties.

People from different backgrounds and walks of life, may
interpret the same phenomenon - whether it is a
Prime Minister's policies, a religious doctrine, or a
military action - in very different ways.

In other words,
people tend to see the world from a viewpoint of subjectivity.
An interpretation based on personal values and experiences.
Like the question of Muslims in Australia.
Our views are shaped by what our past experiences have prepared
us to see and by what we consciously or unconsciously want to
see.

Inevitably we are all guilty of some measure of bias -
the tendency to often unconscious to interpret things
according to one's own values. However, as I stated
earlier - I do try to avoid
sweeping statements and generalisations when it comes to
politics, religion, et cetera. I prefer to take people as I
find them.

I hopt this clarifies things for you.

Those who look at this problem through rose coloured glasses should
consider the statement by the Algerian Imman who said;
"We have no need to go to war to take over Europe, we will take over by the wombs of our women.".
I liked that photo about 2/3 down that link on the Daily Mail page.
That should have been taken seriously.

Foxy said;
Besides religious laws have no legal status in this country

Are you serious or tongue in cheek ?

They marry people here outside the law and presumably do not even
register the marriage. You need to keep up with the news Foxy or is
it that the media is still applying self PC censorship in Melbourne ?

I am never going to change my mind and views.
But can we look at religions all of them?
As a kid it was common to insult Catholics on the way to School and them us.
But we grew out of it,even wed some we had once abused.
IF we believe in evolution, most of us do, why do we inflict any God on our every day life.
What benefit comes to non believers by our action in saying they have freedom of religion?
The link above, a fatwa, religion order to KILL any one living on Mars?
That man never to be forgotten in Pakistan during those hate filled riots flogging an empty burning car!
The teaching western medical folk immunizing kids are trying to make Muslims impotent?
Once the cradle of education and the storehouse of knowledge this creed is no longer so, blinded by hate and a creed that tells us CONSTANTLY we are inferior, half the Muslim population of the world have a far lessor IQ than those they blindly hate.
Tell us Mr Abbott how much is it costing to stop the boats.
But too tell us how much the welfare bill is for them and tell us the average length of time they receive it.
Then tell me it is right to cut from our pensioners to pay for unwanted audience of folk criticizing us constantly.

Dear Bazz,

Don't attack the messenger.
You're better than that - and having a personal
swipe at me is no way to argue.

The fact remains that all Australians are free to
follow any religion they choose, so long as its
practices do not break any Australian law.

Australians are also free not to follow a religion.

Australia has secular government and no official
or state religion. Governments treat all citizens
as equal regardless of religion.

Religious laws have no legal status in Australia.

And if you don't believe these facts - take it up with
your Member of Parliament. Not me!

Foxy,

What is apparent is that you seem to be seriously lacking in knowledge of both Islam and Communism.

You also seem to be unaware of the legal system vis-a-vis Customary Aboriginal Law, which is religious in part, and which is used to subject Australian citizens to laws and consequent punishments that are not only outside the Law but are also often barbaric in practice.
There are two law systems in parts of this country which are recognized by the Government

Good afternoon to you PERICLES...

Unlike your preferred sobriquet 'Pericles', that well known ancient Greek Statesman, often referred to as the first citizen of Athens;

I'm not entirely sure if you're fully appraised of what's actually occurring as a consequence of the 'Islamization' of some of Sydney's south eastern suburbs ? In order for you to receive that necessary exposure, you might need a little 'environmental inoculation' by wearing a blue uniform for a few months or so, in one or two of the patrol sectors, designated for that area ?

As a former working detective, you can take my word for it my friend- Notwithstanding your highly commendable attitude, of accommodating and befriending those people from different countries and of different religions is most laudable. Regrettably, it's only when you're accosted and aggressively challenged by those from these Muslim gangs, will your entire percipience of Islam per se, will significantly alter ? To them, you are either a Muslim, or you're not. There's no middle ground, and there's NO respect for police, or authority at all.

You may quite legitimately ask why ? Thirty, thirty five years ago, during those troubled times in The Lebanon, our esteemed political leader, the Rt.Hon. Malcolm FRASER, decided to permit the flood gates to be opened for any of the 'refugees' from that country, to settle in Australia. This was done, without heeding advice from either, ASIO, the AFP, the ABCI and state police commissioners.

All of those 'stake holders', strongly suggested to government, that careful screening of all applicants MUST be undertaken before anyone from that country is permitted to settle in Australia. It was therefore suggested that ASIO conduct initial screening, and later on the AFP investigate anything 'flagged' by ASIO ? It's my understanding, this proposal was NOT accepted. In reality, other than just the merest, most desultory process of checking, there was virtually no significant screening pursued at all ?

The rest PERICLES as they say, is history.

Thats what happens when you believe in fairy tales and superfriends in the sky.

Dear Is Mise,

Kindly do not make assumptions about the breadth or
depth of other people's knowledge.

You in this case are simply making very wrong assumptions
because I have chosen not to respond to your attempts at
stirring - especially regarding communism - from which
my family suffered uheard of cruelties and the reason
they fled their country and came to Australia. I took
our earlier statements as offensive - and
not worthy of a response.

As for my knowledge of Indigenous
Studies, and /or - Islam - you have no way of knowing how
deeply my knowledge extends on those issues.

It's interesting that you've made all these assumptions
about me.
I on the other hand prefer not to make any assumptions
about the quality, breadth, and depth of your knowledge.

cont'd ...

Dear Is Mise,

Apologies for the typo.

The sentence should read- "your earlier statements
as offensive," (not our).

Foxy said;
Don't attack the messenger.

Didn't know I was attacking any messenger.
The major error you are making is in considering Islam as a religion.
It is primarily a fascist political movement that uses religion to
mould its adherents together.

It advocates a theocratic government and civil rights are not allowed.
You may not be aware that Islamic countries did not sign the Universal
Human Rights Treaty, but set up their own "rights" known as the Cairo Treaty.
It affirms the domination of men over women as well as all the other
practises for which Islamic societies are infamous.

The silly thing is it will be people such as yourself who will be the first to suffer.

Dear Bazz,

Well in that case perhaps I should be concerned.

My medical specialist is a Muslim.
The staff looking after my mother who
has dementia are all Muslims. We have
Muslim neighbours.

Yet we've not had any problems with any of them.
On the contrary. And -
the only people in my life that I can recall
having problems with were people who kept insisting
that we should all conform and be exactly the same.
Strange that.
I've had difficulties with were mainly

Yet we've not had any problems with any of them.
Foxy,
Don't you think it's a bit too early to tell ?

cont'd ...

Dear Bazz,

Actually did you know that Islam is one of the
world's major religions. It claims the allegiance
of a fifth of the entire human population.
And treating them all as one group is not very
intelligent. There are Muslims in Indonesia,
India, China, the previous Soviet Union,
. Islam is the second-largest faith in Europe
after Christianity, and it competes with
Christianity in many black African countries.
Each country has language and cultural differences.
Islam is not practised in the same way.

Also look at the history of Christianity. Women's
rights, et cetera - before soing any finger
pointing. And finally, fundamentalists exist in all
religions. However we should make judgements not
by what's on the news - but what we experience.
Perhaps this would give us a better and more accurate
picture. I don't make judgements about Judaism or Jews - by what
programs are shown about Israel on TV. And I certainly
don't blame all Jews for the behaviour of their extremists.

Foxy, "The fact remains that all Australians are free to
follow any religion they choose,... Governments treat all citizens
as equal regardless of religion."

But these are not "Australians".
Nor "citizens" unless we allow them to be.

We have no obligation to make a single person born elsewhere a citizen.

And we can use any criteria we wish to evaluate immigration applicants, including their membership in any known troublesome social groups.

We also have no obligation to treat all *religions* equally.

Should cults that practice mind control techniques receive public funding for a school, where cult children can be further isolated and indoctrinated?

The only reason this request is not made is that such cults generally have too little geographic concentration to set up such a school.

Foxy,

As I used to say, as a wireless operator, when communication was difficult or it was necessary to repeat a message,

"I say again"

"Message begins: What is apparent is that you seem to be seriously lacking in knowledge of both Islam and Communism.

You also seem to be unaware of the legal system vis-a-vis Customary Aboriginal Law, which is religious in part, and which is used to subject Australian citizens to laws and consequent punishments that are not only outside the Law but are also often barbaric in practice.
There are two law systems in parts of this country which are recognized by the Government".

"Over".

Foxy, of course I know that Islam is a large religion.
That is exactly the problem. Wolfs in sheep's clothing comes to mind.

Of course many moslems act as you say. The problem is that when the
crunch comes and the police ask for help they will either be silent or
support the moslem.

Their religion tells them they cannot have Christian or Jewish friends
and I know that there are individuals who will ignore that but I don't
think it takes much to pull them into line.

As their numbers increase they start to demand sharia law etc.
See what is happening in Britain & France.

I think you need to expand your reading somewhat.

Bazz, from what I have seen, Foxy seems to be very well read, and also willing to take people as they come.

Many others on this site are close-minded and blinkered re other political parties, gender issues, cultures and religions, and tar all people of one country or religion with one brush.

Obviously, it is these small-minded people who aren't well read....

Suzie, the problem is that Foxy like many want to believe the best in
others. Well that is fine as far as it goes, but if it means that you
discount the experiences of others, in this case what is happening in
Europe, you will walk blindly into the same mess.

Just look at Lakemba-Bankstown as the start here in Australia.

My wife grew up in Punchbowl, between Lakemba and Bankstown and the
place is unrecognisable. It looks like an up market Baghdad.

Because their car rebirthing business got sprung by the police they
shot up Lakemba Police Station. I mean this Sydney not Beirut !

How long before the Sunni/Shite warfare expands out of Bankstown ?

Obviously, it is these small-minded people who aren't well read....
Suseonline,
Those small-minded people get their opinions from real life experience unlke those who read too much.

Here's a link that may be of interest:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/44400.html

Islamophobia, not Islam is the real threat.

Bertrand Russell's quote at the end is quite interesting.

Cheers.

The ABC, Foxy?
You don't even need to read it to know what it says.

"Why wouldn’t the Australian people listen?"

Because the ABC audience isn't "Australian" in any representative way.

Progressives talk of tolerance, yet can't spend a day without Christian-bashing and/or White-bashing.

Does it ever occur to you that secularists, gays and feminists might also be concerned about Muslim immigration, not just conservative Christians?

Bertrand Russell "Persecution only ceased after long and bitter experience of its futility"

Yes, but it *ceased*.
Such wisdom has yet to emerge in the Muslim world.

Foxy, sigh, the link doesn't change anything.
Islam is still the belligerent political movement it has always been since its inception.
Its religion just makes its followers feel better.
It gives them the excuse they need to justify their actions.

Dear Shockadelic,

Lets take a look at how conflict has "ceased."

Over the centuries, the number of people involved
in, and killed by, warfare has increased dramatically.
Alexander the Great set out to conquer the world as he
knew it with an army of less than 40,000 men. William the
Conqueror invaded England with 50,000 men. The Napoleonic
Wars involved hundreds of thousands of soldiers. In the
American Civil War, nearly 2 million men were under arms.
During World War I, some 65 million troops were mobilised
and 19 million people were killed.

The carnage of that pointless and dreadful conflict so
stunned the world that people called it "the war to end all
wars," for they knew humanity would never commit such folly
again. World War II followed a mere twenty-one years later -
and this time, almost 100 million people took up arms, and
an estimated 38 million soldiers and civilians were killed.

The fighting still continues throughout the globe - wars
have not "ceased." And today the major powers maintain huge
standing armies. Over the past quarter century, global spending
for military purposes has consumed an estimated $14 trillion
(that is, $14,000,000,000,000).

This represents a colossal diversion of funds from socially
useful goals, for example, a single hour's worth of these
expenditures would suffice to save, through immunisation,
the 120,000 children around the world who die
each day from preventable infectious diseases.

And that is not something that any of us can be proud of.

So let's run a check list through another typically hateful thread.

Started by inaccurate link – check

Use of push button terms;

'Invasion' – check.

'Slippery slope' – check

'World domination' – check

'Multiple wives' – check

'Female genital mutilation' – check

'Child brides' – check

'Theocratic government' - check

Use quote; "We have no need to go to war to take over Europe, we will take over by the wombs of our women." - Check

Attack multi-culturalism – check

Not a bad effort lads. Forgotten 'terrorist' and 'suicide bomber' it would seem although you may be holding them for later.

Sigh. Same old same old from the usual suspects, high on hysteria but short on facts.

Foxy, "Islamophobia, not Islam is the real threat"

So quick of you to demonstrate albeit unintentionally that political correctness is the real threat because it causes people to self-censor, effectively curtailing their freedom of speech.

Julia Gillard criticised the use of PC stereotyping and labels, saying quite properly that people should be able to criticise without being accused of being 'racists', xenophobes' and the like. Or as you have so ably demonstrated Foxy, the use of the offensive allegation of 'Islamophobia' to gag criticism of Islam and Muslims.

Other posters have mentioned this to you previously no doubt.

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

The moderate voice of ISAMIC reason eh ? Didn't think it would be long for you STEELEREDUX 'the Islamic apologist and propagandist' to wheel out your tired old cliché "...Sigh, same old, same old from the usual suspects, high on hysteria and short on facts..." ?

I might remind you STEELEREDUX you've never worn a police uniform in Bankstown or any of it's environs. In fact, you've never worn a police uniform, full stop ! If you had, and it was in the Bankstown Patrol area, you would've had a first hand opportunity to witness for yourself, the verifiable consequence of 'Islamization' in that area.

My question of you STEELEREDUX, why at least don't you open your mind sufficiently, to accept the above FACTS,(even in part) that you might well be wrong, in your defence of Islamic immigration for Australia ?

There is not one Western country in the world, where there's been any successful integration with Islamic migrants ? Not one.

SteeleRedux posted;

'Invasion' – check.--- right.

'Slippery slope' – check.--- right.

'World domination' – check.--- right.

'Multiple wives' – check.--- spot on.

'Female genital mutilation' – check.---- spot on again.

'Child brides' – check.--- right.

'Theocratic government' - check.--- right.

Use quote; "We have no need to go to war to take over Europe, we will take over by the wombs of our women." - Check.--- right again.

Attack multi-culturalism – check.--- right.

Not a bad effort SR, right 10 out of 10.

Looks like you finally agree with most of us.

Dear Bazz,

Catholicism stresses rewards in heaven and encourages its
followers to be satisfied with their lot on earth.
Hinduism threatens reincarnation in a lower form of life
to anyone who tries to attain a higher caste status.
Buddhism stresses mysticism, far removed from earthly
goals. Taoism requires the believer to withdraw from
worldly temptations. Confucianism emphasizes a static
social structure as a part of the natural order.

However many Westerners make the mistake of equating Islam
with what they see on their TV screens and what they read
in their newspapers. They associate Islamic fundamentalism
as being the norm. They think that Islamic fundamentalism
is what all Muslims practice. It isn't. Fundamentalists
exist in all religions.

And as I've written in the
past - to many Westerners, Islamic fundamentalism seems
like an almost scandalous return to a medieval morality.
I'll repeat what I've written previously - it conjures forth
images of women behind veils, of adulterers being stoned,
of theives having their hands cut off, of public floggings
and executions, of martyrdom in holy wars, and in extreme
cases, of political fanaticism exemplified in aircraft
hijackings and terrorist bombings.

This picture is rather distorted, for it is based on what is
newsworthy rather than what is typical.

It will be interesting to see how things develop in this
country in the future. And whether the fears that some of
us have will have vanished through inter-action and
discussion. I feel that there's enough hatred in this
world - we don't need to add to it.
Wouldn't it be great if we made people feel welcome
instead of repelling them into antagonistic behaviour.
Remember when Italians, Greeks, Maltese and Portugese
and many others,
remained closely knit. When they sought only one
another's company and married girls of their own nationality?
When they were reluctant to apply for naturalization, partly
because they were regarded as bloody riff-raff?

Today, Australia is a happier land than most others.
Let's hope that this trend will continue - if we all continue
to make it so.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Just letting you know that Spain and Portugal show
success in Muslim integration.
There's an interesting book by Marvine Howe,
"Al-Andalus Rediscovered: Iberia's New Muslims,"
that I'm sure you'd find worth reading.

Cheers.

Yes, I agree Foxy, Australia really is the lucky country, that many people of the world would love to live in.

Yet, if we listen to the ranting and raving of the anti-multiculturalism rabble on this thread, you would think we lived in the middle of a war zone between all the different cultures and religions of Australia.

Sigh...

Dear Suse,

Some people seem to forget that both of the two
largest world religions, Christianity and Islam,
were spread largely through conquest. Christianity
was originally diseminated through western Europe
as the official religion of the Roman empire,
and then it was carried to other continents when
Europeans seized and colonized vast territories
elsewhere in the world, particularly in Africa
and the Americas. Similarly, Islam was spread
around the Mediterranean, the Middle East, and the
Near East through wars of conquest.

Indeed both religions have enjoyed immense success in
societies that their adherents have dominated politically,
while making relatively little headway elsewhere.

o SUNG WU/quoye..<<..I might remind you STEELEREDUX you've never worn a police uniform in Bankstown or any of it's environs. In fact, you've never worn a police uniform, full stop ! If you had, and it was in the Bankstown Patrol area, you would've had a first hand opportunity to witness for yourself, the verifiable consequence of 'Islamization' in that area.>>

we at olo/know..your a good copper..o..AND MAYBE EVEN chris[of the known police posters here/but you know how CHRIS has a harder edge..where you have a strict/firm..'edge'..but if your in uniform/..'they'..dont see the man..they see the uniform.

personally..i was shocked..at hoW FIRM..YOUR conviction..of racial based bias..[TP TRY TO EXPLAIN..TO A FRIEND..imagine..[one]..thought YOUR NAME JAPAnese..and we all* thought of YOU LIKE A CAMACASI BOMBER

[OR MAYBE BETTER A SAMURI..[HONOURABLE]
THING..is presumptions are wrong..maybe your parents came froM SHANGHI/OR bROOm..thing is race is the worst PREDICTOR of evil/next worst would be religion..its THE TARRING With the same unthinking brUSH COBBER.

I THOUGHT YOU FAR PAST..THAT..but that even you a good copper/thinks it..INDICATES MAYBE AN INTREBNCHED..reaction/feeding on its mutual DISRESPECT..]mate respect..is a thing earned]..you have earned ours[ok mine]..thATS WHY I WAS SO SHOKED

that reveals intrenched bias
just within my family..alone..we have extreemist [me]..down to rediciously passive..[me]..

it much depends on the face
facing my face at the time...thus is it with us all

as thyne own face reveals
mate face/honor/respect..is everything.

love you as much as i could love mine technical controler.

Foxy, you're the one who referenced the Russell quote, yet you don't even understand what he said.

He didn't say ALL conflict has ceased.
He was referring only to religious conflict, in Europe.
My God, you can't even understand your own arguments.

None of the European wars you mention had anything to do with religion.

"it conjures forth images of women behind veils, of adulterers being stoned, of theives having their hands cut off, of public floggings and executions, ... aircraft hijackings and terrorist bombings."

No "conjuring" required.
Conjuring is an illusion.
The footage and photos of these acts are real.

"what is newsworthy rather than what is typical."

So why don't we see equivalent newsworthy events by believers of other faiths with the same frequency?
Why are Muslims so prone to being "newsworthy"?

"Today, Australia is a happier land than most others."

Despite immigration, not because of it.

We were and are one of the best, because of the *people* who lived here.
You are changing the people. Expect different results in future.

SteeleRedux "Same old same old from the usual suspects, high on hysteria but short on facts."

And yourselves?
High on naivety, short on realism.

Suseonline "you would think we lived in the middle of a war zone between all the different cultures and religions of Australia."

Just wait. It's coming.

You may not see it in your gated community, but you will on the news in "those" suburbs you never visit.

Mixing people from 6000 cultures together has "Doom" written all over it.
It's laughable you cannot see how reckless that is.
Even a cursory knowledge of human nature and history should set off alarm bells.

Hi there FOXY & My good friend, ONE UNDER GOD...

Thank you Foxy for your information apropos Spain & Portugal having a successful integration programme for Islamic People. I will admit, I was totally unaware of this, particularly the success of the programme.

FOXY & ONE UNDER GOD...

Please, I would ask that neither of you seek to condemn me, for my beliefs in this instance. They're definitely not born out of any racist convictions or judgement. Merely from what I've experienced and witnessed first hand of what this country of ours, (Australia) should become if we permit any further Islamic immigration.

To be very honest with you, I myself never wore a uniform in the Bankstown Patrol area. I was a detective when assigned to that local CIB. That said, I've not only been directly involved with serious racially based crime, all grades of violence, occasioned against the person, other wanton lawlessness, and intimidation.

Further, I've also been witness to ruthless acts of overt violence, directed towards the uniformed GD patrols, together with other emergency workers, and innocent bystanders. Often the Islamic groups fight amongst each other ? Why, brokers of guns, drugs, and explosives ?

FOXY and ONE UNDER GOD, I'm being absolutely truthful with you both, about the type of often, racially based crimes of violence. I'm in no way, attempting to seek or inspire racism.

I've got no idea where either of you live, other than to suggest keep an eye on the daily (I should say 'Nightly') events occurring in and around the greater Bankstown area. You'll no doubt see, what I'm saying is the truth. I have no other way of trying to convince you of these facts.

In conclusion, we must resist at all costs, any further Islamic immigration. If not for us or our children, then our grandchildren and their children's, sake ! Ask any Sydney policeman about the conditions as I've described, seriously impacting Bankstown and it's environs ?

"However many Westerners make the mistake of equating Islam
with what they see on their TV screens and what they read
in their newspapers. They associate Islamic fundamentalism
as being the norm. They think that Islamic fundamentalism
is what all Muslims practice. It isn't. Fundamentalists
exist in all religions."

True, fundamentalism exists in all religions, but there is a vast difference in the fundamentalism as practiced by, say, Shintoists and Muslims.

This Westerner studied Islam in depth for three years at University and has continued his studies.
This Westerner has Muslim friends here and in India and the ones in India have far less pressure on them to conform to fundamental Islam than do the ones in Bankstown.
Life for them in the rapidly developing ghetto of Belmore, Punchbowl, Bankstown is becoming stifling and they are selling up and moving.
Fortunately for them they'll get a good price for there is ready money available to those Muslims that want to move there.

My Muslim friends in India are happy there, despite the occasional trouble that is whipped up by politicians, usually nominal Hindus. The one country that none of them want to even visit is Pakistan, let alone live there.
Most of the men have performed the Hajj and a lot of their women folk,
and I make it a point to find out before a visit just who has been to Mecca in the intervening time, they always appreciate being greeted by
Haji or Hajiya, as appropriate.

I have no problem with Muslims as people but I fear the presence of Islam in my country.

o sung wu,

The husband of one of my cousins was a Detective at Bankstown some twenty-five years ago and it was still relatively quiet then, possibly before your time. He retired just a few weeks after some character shot at Bankstown Police station, not that that had anything to do with him retiring, he'd reached the age.
I won't, of course, mention any names but he was a fitness 'fanatic' and swum a couple of miles every day.

Good evening to you IS MISE...

Small world eh ? I was attached to the local CIB as part of, TFN, that had been established there, not quite twenty five years ago, nevertheless quite a few years ago now ? There's some nice people in the area, small business, local shop keepers, decent people actually, who happen to wisely and quietly vanish, as darkness approaches. This situation existed as far out as Wiley Park, Lakemba, Punchbowl, Greenacre, Yagoona, Belfield, Belmore, Campsie, in fact quite a lot of previously decent suburbs. Sad really ?

Thanks IS MISE.

Shockadelic "Just wait, it's coming".
Oooh, really?

How often have we heard that phrase over the years from doomsayers?
They said it after the first and second world wars, when waves of displaced people came here from Europe and beyond.
Remember those dreadful Italians, Jewish, Chinese...the 'Yellow peril"?

They said it after the Vietnam War, and all those terrible Communist Vietnamese came to Australia...in boats no less!

And here we are again, with all the 'White Australia Policy" tragics frothing at the mouth and predicting doom to us all.

Ho hum....

We are living in a World with a spirit of hostile anger against Governments and violence on the street is the order of the day. Egypt, Ukraine, Thailand, Iraq, Afghanistan etc, etc; and the same spirit is emerging worldwide. We have accommodated and raised a group of warlike thugs here that deal in drugs to raise their money. They have no respect for authority or laws. When you look at the images from Manus Island they seem to be young men willing to act violently against authority.

O Sung Wu, my wife's cousin is a prison officer and he confirms that
the same violent attitude continues in prison. So much so they have to
try and segregate the moslems out.

They are the bully boys in prisons.

Foxy, I think I understand; hi !
You have had cataracts removed OK ?
The lenses the surgeon implanted were Rose tinted ? OK ?

60 million Frenchmen can't be wrong.

Suse,

Have you been to Bankstown lately or any of the nearby suburbs?
Been harassed for not wearing a head scarf?

When there it is quite amusing to listen to some of the conversations of people who think that they can't be understood by the nearby Europeans.
My wife is fluent in Arabic and translates quietly for my benefit.
The best bit though is when she then speaks to me in Arabic and I reply with a stock phrase that she has taught me.

You should see the faces [:-O]

It seems that Islam has been transformed by
Westerners from a diversely expressed, international
faith to a narrow political identity. It's now a symbol.
Westerners use terms such as "radical," "militant,"
"extremist," Islamist," "Jihadist," - but the distinction
between these labels is never clearly articulated.
Engagement with Muslims then is reduced to a one-dimensional
fiction and there's little if anything in-between.
No Muslim can be complex - which is to say - human.

And that is something I don't like to see - an entire group
of people reduced to. If that makes me in the opinion of some
looking at things through "rose-coloured" glasses. That is
something that I shall wear with honour. Better looking
through rose-coloured glasses than not being able to see at
all.

This from the article:
>>The goal of Islam is not to peacefully coexist but to eventually implement the Shari’a worldwide.<<

This from the Quran:
>>Those who believe and those who are Jewish or Christian and the Sabians-any who believe in Allah and the last days, and work righteousness shall have their reward with their lord-on them shall be no fear. (Qaran 2:62)<<

From the Qaran we have an ecumenical statement of brotherhood for all who believe in the god of Abraham……..but their Mufti’s don’t preach this, they preach conquest and division and we let them………

Idiot Caucasians we defend everybody’s rights except our own….but that is the agenda of political and social engineering in the first world.

For those who are so deeply concerned about
Muslims and their "lack" of integration in this
country of ours perhaps the following link may
be of help:

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/12/13/comment-changing-our-view-muslim-australia

See you on another thread.

FOXY...its not their fault
ITS SORT OF EXPLAINED Here..in the last 1/4..OF THE HOUR
[3/4's..tO 2/3 RD the way through..its sad..THEY CAN'T REALIZE..IT..
in themselves,,/the ones who need TO DIVIDE US TO RULE..[LORD IT OVER us]

IT begins with us..BEING BETTER THAN THEM*
[or bigger/or moRe powerful/or i got A GUN..OR KIDDY Stuff most of us left behind in school/BUT THOSE frighted by the bullies/now love bullying..Now they found OUT HOw..now.

ONCE IN THE CLAN..ALLWAYS IN THE Clan
you can get in anytime you waNT
[BUT YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE/NOR TELL OF ITS SECRETS[OR ACCIDENTS HAPPEN

FIGHT
OR FLIGH
HT..MEANS WE CHOSE..one of the other
IF ONE DONT WORK..WE TRY THE OTHER

http://216.240.133.177/archives32/Rivero/2014/02/Rivero_2_022014_140003.mp3

Dear Johan (OUG),

Thanks for that.

I'll see you on another discussion.

This one for me has now run its course.

Take care.

Foxy,

Not so fast.

Earlier you claimed that a book by journalist Marvine Howe 'proved' from examples taken from Spain and Portugal that Muslims 'integrate' well. You implied that Australians haven't got it right and would be blameworthy themselves if Muslims didn't integrate well in Australia.

As you realise, it is easy and usually safe for you to do your Left cultural cringe act using cherry-picked 'examples' and blame Australians for objecting to foul introduced violence and noxious cultural practices that challenge Australian law, because it is very unlikely that anyone would ever find the book you cited, or find the relevant paragraphs that you never cite.

However in the case of your preferred author, what you woulkd like Australians to think is challenged by the author herself who is also on record for observing that 'conservative' Islam that dominates in Turkey 'brutally suppressed' a humble environmental protest,

"My visit and the interview were overshadowed by the explosion of discontent against the democratically elected conservative Islamic government. What should have been a local town-planning issue easily resolved by compromise was brutally suppressed by riot police. The excessive use of force served to galvanize secular critics on the left and right and an apolitical youth against what was seen as an increasingly authoritarian government, determined to impose an Islamic agenda on the deeply rooted secular state."
http://www.mepc.org/journal/middle-east-policy-archives/turkey-today-headscarves-and-womens-rights?print

I'm sure you'd find that worth reading.

As for those who claim to be on the side of good, wearing 'rose coloured' glasses that see good in endless 'diversity', the fact that they never demand diversity for nations like Japan indicates that they are simply out to dilute and destroy the Australian culture and traditions that they are embarrassed by and reject. Further proof lies in their rejection that there is any worthwhile Aussie culture, traditions and values worth keeping. Strange how those 'rose coloured glasses' do not correct a far Left jaundiced view of Australian culture and traditions.

Criticism of Muslims and Islam is not by definition (as you would have it) wrong, it is freedom of speech. See here,

onthebeach, Friday,21February2014,1:30:22,PM

Hi FOXY...

I'm very disappointed that you sought NOT to acknowledge my last thread which was specifically addressed to you, and ONE UNDER GOD. In one of your previous threads you mentioned 'rose coloured glasses', I do wonder who it is that views this issue through those very same glasses ?

Is Mise>> Have you been to Bankstown lately or any of the nearby suburbs?
Been harassed for not wearing a head scarf?<<

If you are refering to non Muslims....that's a racist cheap shot and certainly not the norm.

IM, I am against any form of “uniform” outside the usual vocations or associations.
As an example I give you Hitler whose propaganda and indoctrination of the citizens included uniforms, badges and other exterior identifiers for most of the population. They even had badges for mums who produced a certain number of offspring. Everybody felt and saw the presence of the regime every day.

My point in raising this is to draw direct comparisons of “intent” with the wearing of the burqa and the wearing of uniforms and insignia in NAZI Germany. The burqa may well have a religious function in some of the Muslim countries, but there are conflicting facts on that issue as many Muslim nations are pluralist on this issue.

But when the burqa is worn in a first world nation it is primarily a statement of “presence “and “separation” whether that is the prime intention or not. But it is certainly understood by the wearer that a statement of separation is being made. I am not saying that this statement making people will not integrate, but it will be on their terms.....and that is my issue.

Integration implies a “greater and lesser” with the lesser taking on the values of the greater, Merger implies a conjoining. This is not to say that the greater may not take on some traits from the lesser, but “take on” as opposed to “forced upon” as is the way burqas have been forced into western society.
Wearing a uniform that will identify you as different every day of your life andis a statement of group segregation.

Suseonline, keep your fingers crossed.

Not much has happened yet, because White Australians are still the majority of the population.
Wait til they get below 50% and see what happens (not long now, one or two generations).

Past immigration was very different to now.
There weren't actually very many "other" immigrants in any wave.
And there were breaks that allowed absorption, a new equilibrium.

And those that came from Europe were similar/related people, part of the same civilisation, a connected history going back 6000 years.

There were also few Asians precisely because we restricted them.
Had we not, there would indeed have been a "peril".

Now it's more like an amber peril.
In the last year, about one third of immigrants came from just two countries: India and China (over 19,000 *each*, more than double the UK's 9000, our tradition source now just 7%!).

Today's immigration is very different to the past.
Then it was overwhelmingly British, with a smattering of "others".
Now it's the exact opposite.
Don't expect the same output with different input.

Ever heard of the tipping point?
Drastic changes often occur suddenly after a long time of apparent stasis.

The dissenters here on OLO are the tip of an iceberg that will grow larger every year, as more and more Australians have bad experiences with these "others".

Then one day, the trigger event, the tipping point. BAM!
I won't be the one eating my words.

Heh, heh, Suseonline you have missed your calling with your hysterical false analogies. Lines like that would get riotous laughs and applause at a downstairs comedy club.

General Comment
What most people find so objectionable is that the Aussie public has always been denied their democratic right to be directly consulted on and to vote on:

- the 'Big Australia' (read as teaming capital cities) that we have to have; and

- the diversity-that-we-have-to-have as well.

The public have been mushroomed for years: kept in the dark and fed manure.

Foxy,

Rose coloured glasses are useful, they dim the hue of blood.

Would have been useful when viewing the scene of brutality as Muslims murdered Fusilier Lee Rigby but you ought to take them off to view this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkKesjMICq0

Dear o sung wu,

What a crock as usual.

I am not an apologist or a propagandist for anything. It is a patently idiotic line. For instance when I defended stress leave for policemen impacted while doing their duty did I then become an “apologist and propagandist” for them?

What I am standing against is racial incitement which you and others on this forum are so keen to propagate.

I don't want the 'Go back to where you came from' mantra spruiked here to become the norm.

I don't want to see more of this;
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-fan-kicked-out-of-aurora-stadium-after-majak-daw-racist-slur/story-fni5ezdm-1226834217493

Where I see injustice I tend to push back.

Then you deliver this sterling piece;

“I might remind you STEELEREDUX you've never worn a police uniform in Bankstown”

and then admit neither had you.

Well mate have you lived within predominately Muslim communities overseas? Have you interacted on a social level with Muslim families? Played with Muslim children your own age? Gone to schools where a large proportion of the student population was Muslim?

What about nowadays, do you spend a weeks of your year mixing with a sizable group of young adults of which the majority are Muslim? In fact do you mix socially with Muslims in any shape or form?

I have and I do mate. I find them on the whole to be as relaxed interacting with me as I am with them. Jokes freely made, ready laughter, good natured banter, same concerns about family and work, same aspirations, human beings like the rest of us. People I am more than happy defending from what gets spewed out on threads like this.

Dear Is Mise,

You seemed to have dropped one. Here you go;

“Started by inaccurate link – check”

Why hasn't Banjo apologised for posting that link?

“"One example being in 2010 it was revealed that over 50% of Muslim men and over 75% of Muslim women were economically inactive in the UK."

Thanks to Pericles for so effectively trashing it. No doubt others on here will still be recycling through their racist forums.

Look it is okay to express the opinion that immigration rates are too high in this country, or that certain groups may well be facing greater challenges than others, but when you ramp up 'fear and loathing' in my country then expect a response.

Dear Belly,

You keep banging on about 'the Australian majority'. In my sister's town this week they had a public forum on 'A More Humane Refugee Policy'. Over 700 people turned up. Quite extraordinary. You might be vocal but you certainly ain't the majority mate.

Sonofgloin,

"Is Mise>> Have you been to Bankstown lately or any of the nearby suburbs?
Been harassed for not wearing a head scarf?<<

If you are refering to non Muslims....that's a racist cheap shot and certainly not the norm."

I am referring to both Muslims and non-Muslims as those doing the harassing don't necessarily know the faith, or lack thereof, of the female being harassed.

Have you been in the area lately?

I have when visiting Muslim friends; friends who are selling up and moving elsewhere.

Sonofgloin, if we are to allow Catholic priests, nuns and brothers, as well as other Christian groups, to get about wearing their religious garb, and hanging crosses all over the place (especially those crosses with a tortured dead man hanging off it!) , then Muslims and anyone else should be allowed to wear their religion or culture on their sleeves. As long as it is legal.

I have no problem with anything they wear, except for maybe the big black dresses that cover women's faces and eyes (only slightly more restrictive than what nuns wear). However, if the men also had to wear them, I may not be so uncomfortable with them!

SteeleRedux is right. There is nothing wrong with worrying about unsustainable population growth, but banging on about restricting one whole religious or cultural group from emigrating to Australia is just plain racism.

By the way boys, there is no use calling for Foxy now, as she has stated she has left this thread.
These sort of threads always degenerate to a final racist few, with all that ranting and raving and beating of hairy (or not?) chests.

In fact, if you look at who is left to post to this site now, there are very few female posters at all that I can tell.

Now, many of you may be joyful about that, but if all the females leave, who on earth are you going to argue with?

Think about it...

Steele,
Not for the first time you misquote somebody. Raises the question as to how accurate is anything else you say.

Susie,
To criticise a persons conduct, a religion or a culture is not racism. I will continue to advocate abandonment of a non-discriminatory immigration policy. We need to be more selective about whom we allow in. Those persons belonging to groups that have shown us they have nothing but contempt for our society and laws, by their continuing with alien cultural practice and anti social conduct, should not be allowed to immigrate.

You need to refresh yourself of the meaning of the word 'racism' and apply it accurately. I suspect you only use the word for shock value, which has dissipated long ago.

No Banjo, I have applied the word racism correctly when people want to apply a blanket ban on any one country, culture or religion from emigrating to Australia.

I have no problem with banning known members of some violent groups like Al Qaeda, or similar, or known criminal gang members, or other criminals, from entering Australia from anywhere in the world.

Some people maintain that ALL people from certain countries, cultures or religions are all the same, and are ALL violent etc.
That is racism in its purist form...and it is a very ugly trait.

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

If you bothered to read my other threads more carefully, I said I was a detective I/C of a TFN, at Bankstown.

I also suggested you open that very blinkered mind of yours and examine exactly what it is I said ? Further, I also unequivocally stated I'm NOT a racist, I was merely reporting exactly the sort of conditions I witnessed at the greater Bankstown Patrol region.

I think you should attempt to dismount that righteous horse of yours and listen to others who don't particularly share your views or opinions about Islamic crime in that region. But not you, eh STEELEREDUX, your really are the apologist for all Islamic philosophy.

And please, don't crow about your defence of police and/or their conditions, from you, they simply don't need it !

Dear o sung wu,

Yes mate I do realise you are one of the 'I'm not racist but...' brigade. If you choose not to think of yourself as racist that is most certainly your prerogative. If in the judgement of others you appear to walk like a duck and talk like a duck then the conclusion they draw ie, that you are probably are a duck, is also their prerogative.

So when you complain “I also unequivocally stated I'm NOT a racist” please do not expect this alone to alter the perceptions of others, it won't. It is just like me stating unequivocally that I am not an “apologist and propagandist” for Islam but having you repeat the accusation the very next post. Perfectly within your rights of course but please don't expect me to treat you any differently to what you dish out.

Whilst being under little obligation to read any of your posts bar besides those directed at me I did note your involvement as a detective. But that is not the proposition/jibe you directed at me. I quote;

“I might remind you STEELEREDUX you've never worn a police uniform in Bankstown or any of it's environs.”

I was perfectly correct in pointing out neither had you.

Cont...

Cont...

Now to me and my supposed high horse. Mate I have never in my life corresponded with people so determined to look down on another group of human beings as you lot here. Your cohort take every opportunity to expound how much superior you and your supposed culture is, to vilify, debase and dehumanise. Climb off the Clydesdale mate and I might see about hopping of my Shetland.

Finally I was not 'crowing' about anything, I was making a point about support not being portrayed as 'apologists' for behaviour. I do not condone police corruption nor unwarranted violence however I do fully respect them and the job they do. Just this afternoon my wife and I stopped to assist with a situation involving an elderly lady who despite only being mobile through the use of a walking stick was making her way along a central Victorian highway determined to get to Adelaide.

Obviously confused, perhaps afflicted with dementia, the lady refused any assistance and offers of a ride to the nearest town and became agitated, dangerously crossing the highway. We stayed with another lady to keep an eye on her until the police arrived. The officer who attended did a brilliant job, quietly talking to the woman until she calmly got into his vehicle. A great job of compassionate, professional policing.

However I note you, on another thread, have decided to have a crack at our Federal Police, questioning their worth. My sibling proudly did their time within their ranks, not without risk to life and limb, and helped put away some pretty nasty people. So may I suggest that you take your own advice and “open that very blinkered mind of yours” before you slag off about fellow law enforcement officers. You disrespect their service to the rest of us.

Hi (again) STEELEREDUX...

Of course you're quite correct apropos the uniform bit - but surely you'd agree, as a detective I would've been in a perfect position to witness everything our uniformed, GD colleagues, had to contend with ?

Your illustration of the 'duck bit' could also apply to you ? For the intractable posture you've adopted in defending these people, perhaps ?

I'll let you into a little confidence STEELEREDUX - as a working detective, you have very little time, nor opportunity to effectively conduct your enquiries, if you allow yourself to be physically and emotionally encumbered or blindsided, with any of your own mindless prejudices or intolerances.

I'm compelled to admit, the job is demanding enough, without any of us aimlessly wandering down that meandering little road, to one's vocational perdition ? Surely you would accept that ?

Pause for moment STEELEREDUX, there's always three sides to every problem. There's yours, and then mine, and then, the truth ?

And in conclusion, I was NOT in any way, denigrating the Australian Federal Police. A senior journo. of the Melbourne Herald Sun, was the individual who sought to degrade them. To me personally, a copper is a copper, is a copper. We all have the same problems, the same issues, the same philosophy. Moreover we're all coppers, full stop ! Members of the world's biggest vocational club !

However, I know very little about them, hence the topic. Oh, I understand one of your siblings was a member of the AFP ? Perhaps then your sibling through you, may care to contribute to the topic ?

Susie,
You are incorrect, neither a religion or a culture is a race and the word applies to a race.

So, according to you, It would be racism if Aus decided to ban a particular group from coming here on cultural grounds. For example if they practiced honour killing or acid attacks on former lovers. You would contend that the group should have a right to come to our shores.

You are quite wrong. We have a perfect right to not allow persons entry on the grounds of alien cultural practices and that is not racism.

Again I suggest you are attempting to change the meaning of the word racism, simply because you believe that such an allegation will put your opponents on the defensive. To me it merely demonstrates that you have no argument, and resort to personal attacks.

Suse,

You're showing your age; it's decades since the nuns kicked the habit.

words changed to protect..the innocent

,,..<<..but surely you'd agree, as a PRISONER.. I would've been in a perfect position to witness everything our IMPRISONED, crimalised colleagues, had to contend with ?>>

sometimes..WE NEED step one step back
To get a clearer impression..

i have NEVER Met any prisoner..[IN JAIL]..WHO WAS GUILTY..
no doubt MANY POLICE..FIND THEM ALL THE TIME..so many 'confessions'..simply because they PUT Trust in the blue UNIFORM[NOW MADE IN BLOOD PROOF BLACK..FOR PURPOSE of intimidation/AND MIND RESET.

the times/PLACE/SITUATION..CHANGE THE MAN
when your power less..JUST THE THOUGHT OF..power appeals
AND THEN..ONCE YOU GOT THE POWER/AND ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTLY

instead OF DUTY..IT became sport
OR ENTERTAINMENT..OR Duty..instead of service.
just like if you hurt one christian/they yet resent it/even if they turn..the other cheek

i figure/the bigger man..sets the ruleS
IS THE SMALL THINGS..that accumulate..till one day..we became that we HATED.

Dear Banjo,

I've just come back briefly to have a look at how
things are progressing here.

Why don;t you actually read what Suse is saying instead
of attributing all sorts of things to her and then
slandering her for it. You're now beginning to sound
like our neanderthal resident nasty (we all know he's
all out at sea and unhinged).

Anyway, here's a link that goes into greater detail - and gives
a Conclusion that is worth a read: :

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/multicultural/grassroots/muslim-community-in-australia.pdf

Suseonline>>Sonofgloin, if we are to allow Catholic priests, nuns and brothers, as well as other Christian groups, to get about wearing their religious garb,<<

Dear Suse, Yesterday after posting my opinion.....my visiting still at uni/eternal student daughter read it and then became Foxy/Suseonline..... All her arguments are yours and Foxy....but I stand by my reasoning.

I have no issue with the local Mufti dressing in the expected uniform of the position...but I am against half the congregation making unmistakable religious and political statements just by their presence. Everyone except for the blind get a statement of intent every time they see the ridiculous impractical garb they persist with.

This is a ludicrous scenario...but apt.....If Priests and Nuns became citizens of Muslim nations and they incited their minority congregation to wear religious habits as the norm I would also object. It is a statement of difference, an insurmountable obstacle to integration. They know it, I know it...but yourself, my darling daughter, and Foxy fail to see it.

Re the discussion with my girl, it ended as it always does with me once again reminding her that the rights of the miniscule must should not be realized if it affronts or “damages” the majority for the sake of social cohesion.

Dear SOG,

Read the link I've given above your post.

Foxy,
Thanks for the link, I do not agree with the conclusions. It is the ingrained cultural and religion that have prevented muslims from integrating into our society. They generally hold our society and laws in contempt and consider their religious laws to be higher. For example Those that considered there was nothing wrong with the underage marriage of recent times.

The main problem is that muslims will not compromise in any way, to change their culture to fit in. We are expected to change to suit them at all times. e.g. Protests about the existence of bottle shops and lingerie shops in shopping centres forcing their closure. The refusal of muslim taxi drivers to allow guide dogs in their cabs.

Susie,
You may not agree with selective immigration but if done on cultural grounds it is not racism. Racism only applies if done on the grounds of race. e.g. Muslim Lebanese have exhibited much anti social conduct so I would stop allowing them in, however non muslim Lebanese have not done the same so would be allowed. Further, Coptic christens are said to practice FGM. If those here continue that practice then that group should not be allowed in. You see, race has nothing to do with selective immigration. It is a matter of disallowing those that have shown us they continue with alien cultural practices.

Foxy's link demonstrates the political spin that government agencies have been obliged to put out under recent administrations and especially in this case during the six long years of Labor+Greens government that was in place until very recently.

It is unnecessary for example to go on and on about the 'White Australia' policy. That was not all bad, black armband stuff either and was representative of many countries at the time. However if Foxy would like to debate the point, it was Arthur Caldwell and his so-called 'White Australia' policy that resulted in her own parents being offered sanctuary and a life in Australia, which they have obviously enjoyed. Caldwell intervened personally to extend an offer to the Lituanians after visiting a camp in Europe.

If any honesty in reporting is to prevail, the date, author and sponsorship of Foxy's article would be given. Because as is so obvious from it, it represents and markets policy particular to the government of the time.

Times change and so do the social policy imperatives of different governments, and that definitely applied to the previous Labor government. A topical example could the the Immigration Dept saying that '90%' of boat people (the prevailing politically correct term was '[asylum seekers') were 'legitimate'. That political factoid was later dismissed by Labor Foreign Minister Carr, who lifted the lid as did his Labor PM, on the numbers of economic migrants arriving courtesy of their travel agents, the criminal gangs operating people smuggling world wide and in this region.

Of course Foxy would not feel at all obliged to accept what Foreign Minister Carr and PM Gillard said where they might disagree with her (Foxy's) more Green-tinged opinions. However balance and facts are important and her link is just cherry-picking.

otb,

Perhaps this link may help clarify things for you:

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/multicultural/grassroots/

If you click on the
"Full Version" - you'll get the full report of the
article I gave in my earlier link. It was written in 2008.
I'm not sure why you refer to cherry-picking.
The authors acknowledge their sources.
And they all are credible.

As far as what my parents went through and what they
experienced, that Sir - is part of the history of this
country - no matter which way you try to argue it.
The facts themselves are there as a historical
record.

As for your assumptions about my politics?
That is your fixation. Not mine. I'm actually
a "swinging voter."
Although I must admit
ever since you've been raving on against the Greens
they are beginning to attract my attention more and
more. I've never voted for them in the past but if
you're so anti them - then perhaps they're worth taking
a closer look at. So Thanks for that! If I do decide
to vote "Green," it will be as a result of you!

Foxy,

I think you have proved what I said. 2008, you say?

That colossal interfering fool Kevin Rudd had already destroyed Howard's Pacific Solution, thus creating mess the LNP was recently elected to stem which is the flow of illegal immigrants.

In 2008 Labor Immigration Minister Chris Evans was practicality in tears because he had 'too much power and had to make decisions affecting individuals' - illegal immigrants one would assume and people with poor criminal histories who were trying to enter under the legal system. How can a government department handle a minister who is reluctant to take and be responsible for decisions delegated to him?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-02-19/i-have-too-much-power-immigration-minister/1047184

Of course the briefing sheets put out by the bureaucracy are in tune with the spin of the minister and government at the time.

Referring yet again to the historical fact that it was Arthur Caldwell, the man you frequently malign, who went against precedent to offer your parents and other Lituanians sanctuary, work and a home for as long as they chose in Australia, I would like to see you prove otherwise, but it would be kind to his memory and truthful if you at least admitted that fact instead of constantly sidestepping it.

otb,

I don't side-step anything.

Firstly, presenting you with historical facts is in no way
meant to denigrate Australia or its people. It's merely
stating the conditions and government policies that
existed at a particular given time in this country's history.

Now - regarding Mr
Caldwell's motives as to why he travelled to Europe seeking
the "Beautiful Balts." Offering "Sanctuary" was not
his reason for going to Europe at that time. He saw an
opportunity and he took it. Australia at the time had an
acute labour shortage and Mr Caldwell saw a way that this
problem could be solved.

Australia was the last country to enter the
International Refugee Organization's re-settlement Scheme and
political rhetoric aside, "economic expedience was by far the
stronger motivation." (C. Panich (1988) "Sanctuary?
Remembering post-war immigration," p. 137).
The Australian government
contributed only ten pounds ($20) towards each migrant's
fare. The rest of the passage was paid by various
non-Australian welfare agencies.

I stress again - that most post-world war II -
Lithuanian immigrants came to
Australia (1949) - as indentured labour.
Every single migrant
over the age of 18 had to enter into a two year contract with
the Australian government which obliged the migrant to
work wherever directed. And the contracts were strictly
enforced, even if it meant that families were split up -
(N. Klaassen (1997). "Leigh Creek: An Oasis in the Desert,"
pp.157-158).

I won't go into the details of the early conditions of
migrant settlement and how inadequate they were
or how all Lithuanian migrants were
classified.

The fact remains that on arrival in this country, the 10,000
Lithuanians had joined other migrants in the re-building of
Australia's capital structures that were to serve the nation
for many decades to come.

The same migrants could have
accomplished a great deal more, if the Australian authorities
had made full use of their skills and knowledge, instead of
treating them all as unskilled labour. (S. Marginson (1997a)
"Educating Australia: Government, economy and citizen since
1960," p. 17). Nevertheless, their economic contribution was
significant at a time when Australia needed it most.

cont'd ...

otb,

BTW - I have never "maligned" Mr Caldwell. Neither have any of
the historians who covered the part he played in this
country's history. Reporting historical events is not
"maligning." Those were the conditions that existed at
that time.

Foxy,

What is true is that Arthur Caldwell was reportedly so taken by the suffering of the Lithuanians he saw in a camp that he made the offer.

Here is a photo of immigrant Lituanians presenting a gift of thanks to Arthur Caldwell, Immigration Minister, on the deck of the KANIMBLA.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/anmm_thecommons/8400302435/

Regarding work available to the Lituanians, as has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions before, the available work was part of the arrangement. They were damned lucky to get work too, it was something de-mobbed Australian troops didn't get automatically. Read their history. Also, in post WW2 Australia which was desperately trying to recover from its total conversion to war production to save Europe, the industry being developed pre-WW2 had been destroyed.

Honestly now, what jobs do you reckon were available? Do you think someone should have waved a magic wand?

The Lituanians were the first large immigrant group to arrive after WW2. No nation, NONE, was prepared for the influx from WW2. That includes Europe. Australia was well-intentionsed and generous. Without doubt, Australia has a proud record in respect of the Lituanians.

I am constantly astounded by those who would judge the migrant facilities, support and assistance of countries immediately post WW2 against what is available to migrants in modern Australia.

You really should check with those who fled Europe immediately after war's end (WW2) on their expectations. The victimhood baggage you carry on their behalf is unnecessary, and plain wrong.

Apologies for the misspell of Lithuanians that crept in.

otb,

I stand by the historical facts and references given
in my post. I have no wish to discuss this topic with
you any further because I can see that it is a total
waste of my time. You seem to think that I am somehow
denigrating this country. I am not.

Cheers.

Foxy,

You said "The Australian government
contributed only ten pounds ($20) towards each migrant's
fare. The rest of the passage was paid by various
non-Australian welfare agencies."

Ten quid represented far more than $20 of today's money; in 1949's terms it was two weeks wages for a tradesman, so today the equivalent is around $3,000.

otb,

The fair-skinned Lithuanians and other European arrivals
were seen as a tangible response to the popular call of the
day, to "populate or perish." this too was part of Mr Caldwell's
motivation. The migrants presence helped allay the Australian
population's fears of "the yellow hordes in the north" (Klaasen,
1997, p.155).

The following link may help with the brioader picture:

http://www.bonegilla.org.au/research/images/193802_Europes_Displaced.pdf

Mr Caldwell received a gift from the Lithuanians while they were
on board ship. They were naturally happy to be arriving - having
escaped from the the second Soviet occupation of their country.
I doubt if they would have given him any gifts at a later date
however.

Dear Is Mise,

This doesn't change the fact that Australia was the last country to
enter the International Refugee Organisation's Resettlement
Scheme and political rhetoric aside, "economic expedience was
by far the stronger motivation..." and that the rest of the passage
was paid by various non-Australian welfare agencies.

Dear Banjo,

My apologies for having contributed to de-railing your thread.
I shall try to stick to the topic in future.
I continue like a fool to respond to otb's stirring.
I should know better by now. I can't understand why he
doesn't start his own threads on issues he's fixated on.
I sometimes get the vibe that he's fixated on me for
some peculiar reason.
But of course I'm now being paranoid.
Silly me.

Foxy,

The truth is sufficient. No black armband. The proud migrants and the government and people who welcomed them don't need this century's victim politics. They would be embarrassed by it.

My concern is is to ensure that the history of the Lithuanian settlement in Australia post-WW2 is not re-written to accord the discourse and politics of modern victimhood.

Everyone had a tough time after the war. Australia did its very best to help displaced persons. They wouldn't have stayed on to raise their families if they didn't want to.

Foxy,

To equate a tenner of the late 1940s with $20 of 2014's money is misleading and shews, on your part, either an intention to give an entirely wrong impression or a serious lack of knowledge of fiscal matters.

unsure what the ISSUE relates..[10 POUND POMS?]
but the conversion..of pounds[weight]..into dollars..[also units of weights]..hides one of the greatest WEALTH THEFts..globally.

ismise reminds us that this so cALLED 20 BUCKS..IN Todays face vALUES
REPRESENTED 10 POUNDS..OR SAY 5 KG..OF [IN WAR TIME] SILVER COIN]..5 kg of pURE SILVER SHOULD EQUAL ARROUND 3000 dollars today.

but much depends uPON its purity..[after ww2..thEY HALVED THE SILVER CONTENT/IE DEBASED THE QUEENS COIN..INTO STERling silver..[50 percent silver]..that was of course after they took away gold money/the silver coin ended..WITH DECIMALISATION

wjen we exchanged our shillings and pence/for uncOMMON CENTS
AS TIME EVOLVED OF COURSE THEY took away our pennies and soon takeaway our coin all together[5 CENT PIECES ARE ELIMINATED FOR EXAMPLE ON QLD BUSES]..the biased unfair 'CASH' FAres
..ARE 'ROUNDED UP]

WE FORGET PENNY WAS A WEIGHT/dollar IS A WIGHT POUNDS SHILLINGS AND PENCE..ARE ALL Weights..IN FACT VALUABLE METALS-WEIGHT..EXCEPT SILVER IS A HEALTHY METAL[AND NICKLE MAKES US SICK]..REGARDLESS GOVT PUT IN 3000/real CASH value..THATS BEYOND Dispute..the 'welfare Agencies who knows..but for that many of us wouldnt be here.

BUT BANKERS HAVE LOOTED THE GOLD/SIlver
[CUE THE WIKISEED/WIKIGELD]

otb,

Your concern for the history of Lithuanian settlement
is touching but not believable - as you talk
about "victimhood," whereas I am talking about
history.

But that's not surprising coming from
someone who denies "black armband history,"
who doesn't see the "White Australia"
policy as being bad, who's against multiculturalism,
and the list goes on. So of course you would reject
historical facts that in your mind you feel
somehow denigrate Australia and are available in all national
library collections, immigration museums, and information
that has been recorded by reputable immigration experts
like Australia's leading Immigration authority -
J. Jupp "From white Australia to Woomera: The Story of
Australian immigration," Port Melbourne, Cambridge
University Press, 2002 (an updated version is also available).

However -
You really aren't any kind of authority - to be able to speak
on the subject of what Lithuanisns and other post world war II
immigrants went through in this country. I have not only
historical records to go on but the actual experience of my
parents, friends, and colleagues, in the Lithuanian Community
to go on. People who actually lived during those times.
I've given you heaps of sources both now, and in past
discussions - to no avai. You can choose to believe whatever
you want. What I object to is your trying to force that
information onto others. Because you frankly are not in any
way objective and choose to ignore - what you don't like.

Dear Is Mise,

May I politely suggest that you try to get a hold of the book
by J. Jupp, "From White Australia to Woomera: The Story of
Australian immigration, Port Melbourne: Cambridge University
Press, 2002. (there's an updated version available).
Professor Jupp is Australia's leading authority on Immigration.

Also the book by C. Panich, "Sanctuary? Remembering post-war
immigration," North Sydney, George Allen & Unwin, Australia,
1988.

There are of course many other sources available in any
library - as well as in our immigration museums. Any librarian
will be able to help you research this subject if you're
interested.

Cheers

OUG,

Just so that we all know that of which we are talking; your figure of 50% silver content for Sterling Silver is a tad low.

"Sterling silver is an alloy of silver containing 92.5% by mass of silver and 7.5% by mass of other metals, usually copper. The sterling silver standard has a minimum millesimal fineness of 925.".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_silver

Australia has more to fear from the very real threat of Foot & Mouth/Rabies outbreaks from the influx of Irregular Immigrants arriving unannounced and undetected on Australian shores via boats primarily.

In 2004 there was a boat which originated from Indonesia carrying 50 + women, children and menfolk. On board were chickens (later found by AQIS to be infected with Avian Flu) - Dogs (rabid) and a cat. They landed undetected at Roper River Bar - near Borroloola NT.

Several of the men who got ashore were found the day after they landed by local aboriginal children, severely dehydrated. 2 had in fact died the day before. Their bodies were found the next day by the NORFORCE patrol sent to the area.

Later, medical teams arrived to ascertain the condition of the others.

Luckily, all the animals on board except the chicken had stayed on the boat. Just for a moment consider the impact on our country - the primary industries for instance, and not to mention all those fluffy cute marsupials hopping around - if rabies had gotten loose?

Had the vessel been smashed in a fashion similar to the one off Christmas Island a few years ago it was a strong possibility.

RE: the condoms I observe strewn around the garden beds of the detention centre at Wickham Point when I go about my business of repairing air conditioners sabotaged and deliberately damaged by detainees made me ask the question - "DO WE NEED MEN WHO THINK IT IS OK THAT WOMEN ARE FOR PROCREATION, & (little/young) BOYS ARE FOR PLEASURE - IN OUR COMMUNITY ?"

I had a Serco escort with me, who was singularly inattentive on the job. I was watched intently by several detainees as I removed screwdrivers, gauges and spanners to do my work - all of which are signed individually in and out of the controlled areas by Serco staff. It takes on average 4 hours to get keys, get checked into and then escorted into the accommodation areas...this for a 15 minute job on average. The cost to the taxpayer is astronomical.

Dear Albie,

Thank You for your informative post.

It's a great pity that politics creates problems
that cost the nation unbelievable prices - not only a great
deal financially but as you point out could end up
with disastrous results. Surely better solutions
could be found instead of what's currently on offer.

Logic would dictate that potential refugees (economic or
others) should be allowed to arrive by plane at a far lesser
cost than currently with people smugglers. They should be
immediately processed at the air-port and depending on their
refugee status given asylum and be put on a contract work
program as migrants were in the 1950s or if unqualified
to be sent back immediately to whatever destination they
claim to originate from. This would cost millions of dollars
less than the current system that we have - and it would save
lives and not bring in diseases. After a few groups would
be sent back - maybe the message would get through.

If they sit in a detention centre for months or years - it
creates the image for others that people are not being returned
and it is safe to pursue the avenue that people smugglers offer.

Just an idea.

Dear Is Mise and Foxy,

Just to clarify the 'Ten Pound Pom' issue.

From my reading the £10 was actually the amount paid by the migrant not the government. The return fair was £120 so I'm assuming that was close to the full cost of the adult passage out here, therefore the government likely subsidised the journey to the tune of over £100.

But this is what interested me;

“Former Prime Minister Julia Gillard migrated with her family from Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales in 1966, in her parents' hope the warmer climate would help her fix a lung infection. The current Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, migrated in 1960 under the £10 scheme, despite the fact that his father had already lived in Australia after arriving at the beginning of WW2 on a "First Class Only" Blue Funnel Liner, served in the RAAF and studied dentistry at Sydney University at taxpayer expense, and that his mother was an Australian expatriate living in England at the time of his birth."

So Abbott is a £10 Pom?

Brilliant.

Sorry, my bad! Here is the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Pound_Poms

Foxy,

I have previously provided you with links but regardless of the facts that are put before you, you come back time and time again as though that has never been done.

Regarding your offensive slurs against Arthur Caldwell and your disbelief that Lithuanians would ever thank him, I provided an actual photograph of Lithuanian migrants aboard a ship presenting him with a gift. In reply there was no apology from you, just churlishness - you claimed they would never thank him again!

You disbelieved Caldwell's motivation and initiative in offering Lituaninas sanctuary in Australia, work and free choice to leave any time they wanted, without obligation. But despite evidence given so many times, you churlishly deny him even that.

So here once again I am providing information from Australia's largest Lithuanian community in Sydney that proves what I have said But weasel around it by all means, it is nore aimed at readers who do not have a chip on their shoulder or inherited (claimed)'victimhood' to pursue,

<...the first large migration of Lithuanians to Australia occurred only after W.W.II.
1.1 Post-W.W.II. Migration

Lithuanians arrived from the DP camps of Germany shortly after The Hon. Arthur Calwell MP, then the Minister for Migration, visited the DP camps of Europe in 1947 and reported to the government of the day about the miserable conditions he had witnessed. The large Lithuanian Communities in Australia today had their origins right at the very beginning of Australia's post-war migration intake. They arrived in the first and following ships bringing to Australia its post-war migrant intake. In the first shipload, some 85% of the passengers were Lithuanians..

The Lithuanian people migrating en-mass to Australia in the period 1947 to 1953 were refugees and displaced-persons fleeing from the Soviet occupation of the Republic of Lithuania. >
http://www.slic.org.au/Community/History/Background/Background.htm

What really puts the lie to your disgraceful allegations of discrimination and poor treatment of Lituanian migrants is that a negligible number of Lithuanians returned to Lithuania following the collapse of the USSR and restoration of Lithuanian independence.

To be very blunt Foxy, there is no evidence at all of Australia's largest Lituanian community in Sydney demanding the victimhood you are claiming for them.

They seem to be happy normal Aussies going about their lives and treasuring memories and traditions, just as others do.

They don't need the black armband you claim to wear on their behalf.

Everyone had it tough after the war. But even when people at that time were doing it comfy, if the left whingers of today were to experience similar duties and conditions, the left whingers' feelings of entitlement and denial would never allow them to see themselves as anything other than society's 'victims'.

SteeleRedux,

Thanks for the link.
I'd looked for one but never thought to type in ten pound poms,
should have as my first wife migrated from Scotland as a teenager, with her father, mother and young brother under that scheme.

Australia House advised them that as Australia was such a sunny warm place that they would not need their good Scottish winter clothes, so they sold them; she spent her first winter in Australia at Bathurst, NSW, and it snowed and snowed and snowed.
One of Bathurst's coldest winters!!

Able Manton,
Thanks for reminding us about the possible introduction of devastating diseases.

Some years ago I was told that Indonesian fishermen regularly stopped off on our mainland where they killed their chickens for food. Not sure if that still happens.

I don't think roos carry the rabies virus, but could be wrong. The big worry is if Foot and Mouth got into our wild pig population. Such would immediately stop all rural exports, meat, wool, wheat, the lot. Virtually impossible to stop getting into our domestic stock and millions would have to be destroyed. I cannot even imagine the cost to us.

There are other exotic diseases as well, like the bird flu and rabies in the wild dog population. There certainly is a risk of the illegals bringing in these diseases. Another reason they are best housed off the mainland.

otb,

For your information.

1)The photograph of Mr Caldwell being presented with a gift
by Lithuanians on board the ship that you cited earlier
is an extremely well known photograph and common knowledge
that it was a
part and parcel of Caldwell's campaign in selling the DPs
to the Australian public. Read the text of the Bonegilla
site I gave earlier.

2) The question of Mr Caldwell's motivation for selecting
the DPs and the conditions under which they were accepted to this
country, what was expected of them, how they were classified,
and treated is well documented.

3)I grew up in Sydney and was part of the Lithuanian Community
there for decades. My family is very well known in the
Community.
We were all involved in the Community and family members
have served on its Executive Council and fully participated in all activities.

4) As for preaching to me about appropriate behaviour and
churlishness et cetera - Let me simply say this -
when you display even the smallest, tiniest sign of
any decency and good manners (not talking about
logic or reasonableness - that would be too much to expect),
I shall then take you seriously. Until then I shall no
longer respond or read any of your posts because as I've
stated to you in the past (many times) I do not enjoy
inter-acting with you. And I would prefer not to do so
in the future.

You need to find someone else to bully.
I'm no longer interested.

Is Mise my comment about cheap shot was qualified by “non Muslim”......ie the harassment of Aussie women to cover up....and that has not become an issue yet.

But you mentioned Muslim friends that moved away from the radicals in the enclave suburbs.....yes I believe that....radicals always start the bullying on home ground before expanding.

Sorry Suse, don’t agree with anything you say on this issue. You take the politically correct high ground and plead equality and rights....but if the lot you are defending have their dreams realized your rights are gone....your equality gone because of gender, your freedom to voice an opinion contrary to the practice of the Koran gone.....Suse of old....gone.

Foxy my dear, from your link:
>>It is the social and economic marginalisation not their religious or cultural values that preclude Muslim-Australians from integrating into Australian society. Affected by a multiplicity of poor social and economic conditions, Muslim-Australians find a sense of belonging and self-worth within their own communities. Unlike the larger Australian society, these ethnic and parochial communities provide Muslim people an anchorage and identity .<<

Historically all immigrant groups start from a low socio economic base....all groups congregate geographically. But historically the Middle Easterners vary from this in one important point...none of the other immigrant groups grew their enclaves into adjoining suburb.....The Middle Easterners do not disperse but wilfully grow their non Australian anchorages and identities as the link points out.

Sure they come out to work and play....but they don’t want to live next door to the rest of us.....and that will never go away.
I don’t believe we have any more entitlement to be here than “them”....we only have a 200 odd year track record of habitation here ourselves. But we formed one nation....everybody assimilated.....except the Middle Eastern Muslims. There have been at least three generations of Muslim Middle Easterners born here since the influx of the 70’s and nothing has changed except the last generation has taken to drug crime and drive by shootings....happens weekly, sometimes daily in my city.

It is not that we took in Muslims; it is the social quality of the ignorant middle ages tribes we brought in. Smart Muslims don’t want to come to this backwater for residence.

Dear SOG,

This is certainly a complex problem.

I've just come across the following link that
deals with Middle-Eastern Australians and the
problems of their integration into Australian Society.
Perhaps it might help:

http://www.groups.psychology.org.au/Assets/Files/ACP-24-2-Salleh-Hoddin.pdf

The Reprot was done in Nov. 2012.

Foxy, " The question of Mr Caldwell's motivation for selecting
the DPs and the conditions under which they were accepted to this
country, what was expected of them, how they were classified,
and treated is well documented"

What possible motivation would the largest community of Lituanians in Australia, those in Sydney, have to lie about Caldwell?

Also, what possible motivation would the same community have for concealing the awful discrimination and ill-treatment you allege against the Australian governments then and following and the Australian people who generously took them in?

Why too, do you only now suddenly discover that you and your parents are members of the Sydney Lithuanian community when I have quoted them before on a number of occasions and in this thread? That is odd. But even more odd has been your avoidance of even acknowledging their briefing paper on the previous occasions I have quoted from it.

It just doen't gel, does it?

To repeat the rather obvious, there is no evidence at all of Australia's largest Lituanian community in Sydney demanding the victimhood you have been claiming for years on this forum.

They are ordinary, happy, normal Aussies going about their lives and treasuring memories and traditions, just as others do. Many who emigrated have passed on.

They don't need the black armband you claim to wear on their behalf. They would be embarrassed by your un-needed, uninvited, leftie patronising view of them as victims and for what?

Foxy I have been travelling for a little bit.....where is Lexi?

Foxy "They should be immediately processed at the air-port and depending on their refugee status given asylum and be put on a contract work program as migrants were in the 1950s"

Weren't you just crying a river over that a minute ago?
Now you want to revive it.

Foxy, I thought you were leaving.
Just came back to insult someone ("neanderthal") and contradict yourself?

sonofgloin "but if the lot you are defending have their dreams realized your rights are gone....your equality gone because of gender, your freedom to voice an opinion contrary to the practice of the Koran gone"

Yes, tolerance and inclusion are a two-way street.
If the people we tolerate and not themselves tolerant of us (and the 6000 other minorities), we are shooting ourselves in the foot.
And for no reason.
We have *no* obligations to people not born here.

"I don’t believe we have any more entitlement to be here than “them”....we only have a 200 odd year track record of habitation here ourselves"

So what's the time limit for greater relevance? 500 years? 1000?

In only 200 years White Australians/British, and virtually nobody else, built the roads, the farms, the shipyards, etc.

All human societies have a notion of inheritance or legacy.
This does not only apply to direct relatives, but to entire peoples/nations.

Any old hominid that walks upright is *not* equally entitled to the results of "tribal" efforts.
Only the biological/tribal descendents.
Everyone else is a guest (or an invader).

Why does this universal entitlement only apply to White countries?

Japan is one of the richest countries in the world.
Yet nobody disputes that its success is the result and right of the Japanese.
The native Ainu minority did not build Japan.
Neither did the small number of foreigners.

The Japanese created Japan. It is *theirs*, not "humanity's".
And Australia belongs to Australians, not "humanity".
We can refuse entry to any or all foreigners, as we see fit.

Dear Shocker,

No I wasn't the one doing the crying, merely setting
historical records straight. - Occupational hazard.
As for insults? I wasn't referring to you dear
boy - so you don't have to be concerned.
But interesting that you'd think I was.
Or have you had that label attached to you by someone
else previously?

Dear SOG,

One and the same dear heart!

cont'd ...Dear Shocker,

Your statement that we can refuse entry to whoever we choose
is actually inaccurate. We can't - unless we tear up the
Refugee Convention which we've signed - and also choose to
ignore human rights and international laws -
which could have serious
repercussions to us as a nation globally.
However, what we are entitled to do is of course lobby our
federal MPs to make changes for what we don't believe in.
That is our prerogative. Of course it doesn't mean that
we're going to be listened to. Pollies tend to do things
their own way. But you can always try.

Foxy,

This is what another nation, Canada, says (below). Why should you believe that Australia should be weak and not do the same to protect its citizens and borders?

<Managing access to Canada

Snapshot

Enforcement activities are essential to managing access to Canada in order to preserve the integrity of the immigration and refugee program, and to protect the health, safety and good order of Canadian society. Enforcement activities include preventing illegal migrants and other undesirables from entering Canada; identifying and removing criminals, illegal migrants, failed refugee protection claimants and illegal visitors from Canada; and ensuring that the provisions of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act are respected. Enforcement activities take place abroad, at ports of entry to Canada, and within Canada.>

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/media/facts-faits/037-eng.html

Only the ratbag Greens believe in open borders. It is interesting though that none of the Greens senators including Bob Brown and Christine Milne and presumably not you either, ever volunteered to take in any of those buff young male 'asylum seekers'* into your home, even though the previous Labor/Greens government undertook to pay you handsomely if you did.

*PM Gillard and her Foreign Minister Carr referred to them instead as economic migrants.

Dear Shocker and Banjo,

Here's a link on asylum seekers: what other countries do:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/asylum-seekers-what-other-countries-do-20120813-244fs.html

Dear onthebeach,

You have had a direct request not to engage with Foxy on this thread. Perhaps a parting shot is not a hanging offence but you have come back for more.

In my view this behaviour has become harassing and not in keeping with the spirit nor the rules of the forum.

Graham recently appraised the both of us of those rules which can be found here.
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/display.asp?page=legal

You are perfectly within your rights to reference and explore any points Foxy makes on the thread but this can be done without addressing her personally.

If in future I was to transgress the above referenced rules I am more than happy for you to take me to task. Perhaps with a little effort we work to make this forum a more respectful place while still maintaining the vigour essential for an opinion site to flourish.

Foxy,

No, Ms Kwerk the reporter was referring to asylum seekers, not illegal immigrants - or economic migrants as your previous Labor/Greens government preferred.

Are you calling Julia Gillard and Bob Carr liars?

Foxy,
Persons that enter Aus legally (with a valid visa) and then seek asylum are free to go about their business while their application is processed.

Makes one wonder why more, who consider themselves genuine refugees, do not take the legal route and enter safely by air. The obvious answer is because they are not genuine refugees so are prepared to pay far more to get on a leaky boat in effort to jump the back fence.

We are told that only about 30% of those that enter legally and then seek asylum are successful. Interesting to know if all the failed applicants leave voluntary and if not do they simply go underground and become part of the over stayers.

Mmmm.

Moving along for a moment.

As a bit of a Reddit consumer it is interesting how many people outside the country hold us in pretty high regard. It is only when you read comments like the one below that you realise that those who live among us see things slightly differently.
The topic is “Former Americans of Reddit, why do you no longer live in America and what about your new country made you want to live there?”
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1yszoi/former_americans_of_reddit_why_do_you_no_longer/

The following is one of the responses.

Quote;

Californian living in Australia. I was living in NYC at a major digital consulting company 3 years ago, when a breakup with my ex sparked a move to live overseas. I ended up in Sydney than Melbourne. I work in the digital ecommerce sector, an area in which Australia definitely lags behind when I arrived 3 years ago. I was able to leverage my USA skills and experience to quickly getting employment. Upon getting my job I was 2-4 years ahead in strategies and skill set to my supposed peers, which is a great upside, but you do get looked upon as a ‘Tall poppy’ . Even worse a “Yank Tall Poppy”. Also there are massive differences in work ethic that made me seem a bit too intense for my colleagues.

Cont...

Cont...

Positives to living in Australia: Safe (little to no gun violence), clean, work/life balance is more tipped towards life pleasures, almost negligible differences in our social cultures, 4 weeks paid leave, more casual approach to business, laid back attitude is prominent in all ranks of business, great restaurants, beaches, lots of sports to watch, and women tend to not mind American men.

Negatives: Slower pace of life, very expensive, passive thinking, bogans (look it up) and racist. Very racist. I find the casual willingness to be openly racist or prejudice uniquely Australian. From workplace to day-to-day it’s something this place needs to work on. Even encountering it personally myself (im not white skinned) and have them only rescind their comments once they found out I was American. I’ve never in my entire life been called a “n-word” by anyone until I came here. And I’m not even black.

End quote.

I remember a time when such an assessment would have cut to the quick. Now we seem to be determined to wear that badge with honour. What are we becoming?

Plain enough for all and Carr had long experience in government and traveled and consulted broadly with other countries in the region and elsewhere:

<Views on asylum outdated, says Carr
June22,2013

FOREIGN Minister Bob Carr has told a gathering of 40 non-government organisations in Canberra that their rhetoric about asylum-seekers is out of date, unhelpful and won't be accepted by the Australian people.

In the meeting on Thursday, Senator Carr told the leaders of more than 40 organisations that the old rhetoric about human rights and asylum-seekers no longer described the reality of Australia's situation.

Instead, Sri Lankans, Iranians and people of many nationalities with no genuine claims to refugee status were coming to Australia by boat. This, he said, was now a sophisticated and well-financed illegal immigration issue. The numbers, at 3000 a month, were intolerably high, Senator Carr said.

Australians generally accepted immigration, but they would not accept the official immigration program being swamped by illegal immigration on this scale.

Among the groups attending were World Vision and the Refugee Council of Australia.

Senator Carr's words reflect a growing view within the government, but no other senior minister has expressed it so bluntly.

The Foreign Minister's declaration comes as the number of asylum-seekers to arrive in Australia this year closes on 25,000. ..>

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/views-on-asylum-outdated-says-carr/story-fn59niix-1226667823208#

Dear Banjo,

It's over 90 percent (not 30 as you claim) of boat people
who have been found to be genuine refugees.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/boat-people-genuine-refugees-20130519-2juvg.html

And speaking of boat people, here's another link on the subject:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial-its-not-just-about-boats-mr-morrison-20140224-33d10.html

It's an Editorial from The Age newspaper.

Foxy,
Here is what I said, "We are told that only about 30% of those that enter legally and then seek asylum are successful". That is the figure I recall from the DIAC site and, of course, refers to the legal arrivals which come by air.

But the point is that these applicants are free in the community while their applications are processed. We only detain the illegal entrants, irrespective of their mode of travel.

I may contact the DIAC to find out how many of the failed applicants actually leave when their visa expires and how many simply go underground. Those that do over stay must buy false identities and so on if they participate in our society, and they make themselves very vulnerable to extortion from landlords and employers.

Foxy, you didn't merely "set the record straight", you were COMPLAINING about the 1950s work programmes, then turn around and suggest we do it all over again.

And I never said you called *me* a "neanderthal".
I said "someone". You were too gutless to name names.
It couldn't be me. I'm too intelligent and articulate.

People call me all sorts of names (that's all they can do).
My favourite laughable misnomer is "fascist" (being the minarchist classical liberal that I am).

"ignore human rights and international laws - which could have serious repercussions to us as a nation globally."

Oh, yeah. Like how the whole world boycotted Chinese goods after Tiananmen Square? They learnt their lesson!

As far as I'm concerned "international" laws and "rights" have no legal validity.
Only the laws of sovereign nations, which specify their own citizens' rights, do.
None of those conventions and protocols had the democratic approval of our citizens. Invalid.

Refugees must show good faith.
Where is the good faith in paying people smugglers thousands more than an airline ticket and trying to sneak in unnoticed?

And to Australia, off all places.
When Europe is much closer to Africa and the Middle East.

You cannot return a *genuine* refugee to their homeland, but there's no prohibition from sending them somewhere else (Nauru?).

Thanks for the MSM link (almost as good as your government propaganda links), but I don't care what other countries do, think, say or want.
They can give refugees a diamond tiara if they like.

SteeleRedux "What are we becoming?"

Honest.

Dear Banjo,

People who arrive by boat seeking asylum are not
illegal. However, I don't want to go down this
path again. We've discussed this issue many times
in the past.

Deat Shocker,

Obviously you've made up your mind about things and
any attempted discussion will be a waste of time.

As for your self-praise on the status of your intelligence
and articulation - well, at least you've got one admirer.

Cheers.

Foxy, "any attempted discussion will be a waste of time"

You're the one who refuses the discuss anything.
I doubt you've addressed a single point I've ever made.

I am clearly articulate, and I couldn't be if I weren't intelligent.
I have an IQ of 123. "Superior. Well above average".

People who tear the status quo apart are rarely "admired".
Not in their lifetime anyway.

Foxy, "People who arrive by boat seeking asylum are not illegal"

You are calling Prime Ministers and their Foreign Ministers of consecutive governments from either side of politics liars.

Dear Shocker,

There's zero correlation between IQ and
emotional empathy. They're controlled by
different parts of the brain.

As for addressing your points?
What good's a high IQ if all you're
interested in is finding arguments to
support your own feelings on the issues.
Everything else you reject.

As for telling me not to question the status quo?
Well, a very wise person once stated:

"It's important to remember Australia before the
waves of migration. It was dull, self-satisfied
and joylessly conformist. Not sinply null and boring,
but nullarboring. Not merely mindless, but lobotomised.
Of course, the option of multi-culturalism involves
taking some considerable risks - but almost every
human advance is based on experiment, innovation and
adventure."

Dear Shocker,

Here's another link that addresses some of the
issues that may concern both you and Banjo:

http://www.news.com.au/world/ten-myths-around-asylum-seekers-arriving-on-boats-in-australian-waters/story-fndir2ev-1226676024840

Foxy, <Dear Corri, It's important to remember Australia before the wave of migration. It was dull, self satisfied and joylessly conformist. Not simply null and boring, but nullarboring. Not merely mindless, but lobotomised.>

Foxy, Friday, 23 November 2007 7:01:23 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1296&page=6

Same again same years later.

Same again 2014.

Cringe worthy. Why do the Left dump on Australia? Self-loathing.

Political commentators tell us that
"We've known for a long time that the traditional
Left-Right political divide, dating from the
French Revolution has reached its use by date ...
Society in Australia is not longer divided between
Left and Right, but is split between Reformists
and Regressives."

"Certainly Left and Right no longer have the meaning
they once had, and neither does the Socialist-Conservative
division. Most people are sick and tired of the old
divisions and expect a more positive approach in
public life. Part and parcel of this is wanting truth
versus falsehood to replace the old dichotomies."

What a positive move that would be in public life.
(And also on this forum).

Foxy.

With respect, it was an outrageously offensive, elitist thing to say about Australia. You may not intend it, but it comes across as the crass arrogance of the archetypal European toff dismissing Australians. That is if any Europeans actually know that Australia exists, or cares.

A cultural cringe,
"It's important to remember Australia before the
waves of migration. It was dull, self-satisfied
and joylessly conformist. Not sinply(sic) null and boring,
but nullarboring. Not merely mindless, but lobotomised".

It didn't help that after the cruelty and deprivation of the Great Depression, Australian were off in their thousands to fight for Europe's freedom. The bloom of new industries and culture were destroyed as Australia converted to war production for Europe.

Post-WW2 Australia was in a desperate plight as the small population struggled to pay a war debt - guns and bullets expended in Europe's war - and the fledgling industry pre-war totally lost to war production and war economy, had to be cranked up from the ground again.

OTB,
We did not go to war simply to aid the UK and Europe. Do not forget we were under direct threat ourselves. But you are right about the depression and the dire straits of our industry post war. We were very generous to the UK and Europe during that period.

I can clearly recall butter still being rationed here in the late 1940s as we were sending lots of food assistance to others and depriving ourselves. I knew a bloke who was a cook in a migrant camp and he told me that the new migrants could not believe the food we had. For example, the sugar would completely disappear from the tables at the first sitting of new arrivals. Took them a while to realize it would be there at every meal.

I am aware that there is no hope of the likes of Foxy and Paul to change their views, but I will correct them whenever I see the need because I know there are many that read these posts without commenting themselves. These people deserve facts instead of warped ideology.

Dear Banjo,

I can see that you've found a kindred spirit
with whom you obviously have much in common.
You can continue to share in demonstrating your
positive, broad-sighted aspirations and vision
for Australia.

I'll leave you to it!

Banjo,
Agreed.

Foxy,
You must have some evidence to support your jaundiced opinion of Australians. You have after all posted the same words repeatedly over many years. This is your opportunity to detail the basis of your prejudice. So by all means put your supporting evidence and argument forward.

Empathy, Foxy? How about a little for Australians, present and future?

For present generations you are destroying the people and place they grew up in.
For future generations you offer an "Australia" unrecognisable as "Australian", with no connection to their ancestral history.

"Feelings" have nothing to do with it.
My arguments is based on a realistic awareness of human nature and history.
It's the utopian wishful thinkers who base everything on "feelings".

Quoting Philip Adams?
Didn't finish school, former Communist, talk back radio, ABC, advertising, co-producer of The Adventures of Barry McKenzie?
What a role model! Better than Gandhi!

I'm sure if you actually lived in the homelands of immigrants, you'd find them just as conformist and monochromatic.

Their flavour and flair is an optical illusion, only visible to "dull, conformist" middle class Whites.

"multi-culturalism involves taking some considerable risks"

But is it wise to take all those risks at once (all cultures/ethnicities *simultaneously*) and to such a degree (100,000 per year)?
Why not take smaller risks?: lower numbers, incremental scope.

"wanting truth versus falsehood"

Well truth-lover, your artificially imposed diversity is the falsehood.
Nothing authentic about it whatsoever.

Dear Shocker,

Your views are shared by quite a few of the posters
on this forum so you can take comfort in numbers.
And of course you're all entitled to your opinions.
What you're not entitled to, as I've stated time and
time again, are the facts. And despite whatever you say
the facts remain as historical records for all to see and
judge. Of course, having said that - ( and again as I've
stated in the past) - a historian can establish that
an act took place on a certain day, but this, by historical
standards, constitutes only chronology. The moment a
historian begins to look critically at motivation,
circumstances, context, or any other considerations, the
product becomes unacceptable for one or another camp of
readers.

If people are reluctant to modify their judgements
this can lead to the questionable practice of stereotyping
each other as well as a total breakdown in communication, and
worse - personal insults, harrassment, and ill-feelings
especially on public forums such as this one - where its
convenient to hide behind anonymity and say things to
people they don't really know, and things they wouldn't say to
their face. But that's the internet. It brings out the
best and the worst elements in some people.

Anyway, I've re-discovered the following link by Dr Eva Sallis
and although it's approx. seven years old - it's still
relevant today. You probably won't get much out of it
(despite your self-proclaimed high IQ), because of your lack
of emotional empathy, as I pointed out earlier, but it says
much of what I feel, and I thought it worth including here:

http://australiansall.com.au/archive/post/australian-dream-australian-nightmare-some-thoughts-on-multiculturalism-and-racism/

For me this discussion has now run it's course you'll have to
find someone else to talk to. And I'm sure you will.
Plenty of kindred spirits around - some simply baying at the
heels and froathing at the mouth.

See you on another thread - I'm out of this one.

Simply amazing! LOL

There was a Labor Premier of Queensland, Peter Beattie aka 'Mr Teflon' or 'Teflon Pete' who could do that. Even totally caught out by his own words, 'Mr Teflon' could talk and talk and talk, finally redirecting the question or charge back against the journalist and looking the victim himself.

Peter Beattie was never crude though, or at least not in public.

I know Foxys heart, it is much the same as great numbers of Australians, one open to those in need always.
And I know myself, and this country[ if the majority think as I believe] are near racist in some eyes.
I however will not move one milli meter! consider why.
The thread talks of England, see the hate filled words of Islamic converts given life and near life for the most brutal of murders.
Consider how many, come be honest! people would come if we let them.
Tell me in a time of job loss and cuts we can, indefinitely spend our welfare dollars on those *who never ever paid tax here*
Then. in the end, be honest it is the Islamic Religion that drives most anti boat people thoughts.
It is!
Why is it near unclean to remind us all no God ever existed.
Why do we give followers of phantoms tax breaks and freedom to?
Interfere in our daily life?
Confront the divisive nature of God, then we will ask many more questions about world wide death murder rapes undertaken in his/her name, do we need that?
Do we support that?

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/welcome-back-to-white-australia-20140227-33m4w.html?google_editors_picks=true
This link is worth the read, to both sides of this debate.

But too it ignores some questions that I think need answers.
How many will come if we act other than our current ways.
How many will be on our welfare system after arrival.
And for how long.
Has the current behavior of past arrivals now settled here been seen and understood.
Do we remember *the anti west racist and insulting Sydney riot*
While taking every chance to insult those Australians who put an end to years of RACIST taunts at Cronulla Beach.
Do we remember those hate filled signs at the racist riot in Sydney.
And that woman screaming at us why would we want to integrate with people like you?
I still think the link is worth a read.
If only to know your enemy, see truth is first victim in this debate

Belly, "I know Foxys heart, it is much the same as great numbers of Australians, one open to those in need always"

Do tell.

Could you kindly read my earlier post then and explain her obvious and often stated contempt for Australians? I cannot say her Aussie compatriots because she always puts her European inheritance (and her claimed victimhood which her forbears don't claim themselves!) first. This one,

<Foxy.

With respect, it was an outrageously offensive, elitist thing to say about Australia. You may not intend it, but it comes across as the crass arrogance of the archetypal European toff dismissing Australians. That is if any Europeans actually know that Australia exists, or cares.

A cultural cringe,
"It's important to remember Australia before the
waves of migration. It was dull, self-satisfied
and joylessly conformist. Not sinply(sic) null and boring,
but nullarboring. Not merely mindless, but lobotomised".
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 26 February 2014 9:26:32 PM>

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6251&page=24

Any wonder that endless 'diversity' without the public having any say on it is the policy of the lunatic Greens and political 'Progressives' aka the wolves in sheep's clothing (what they call themselves!).