Well thats it, Toyota pulls the plug !
2017 is the go date.
Now watch Tony Abbott get the blame !

Bazz,
Right or wrong it has happened on his watch and history/folklore being what it is he will be seen as the man who brought it all about.
He wanted the job, such things go with it.
SD

Toyota had to go. Even if they had been building a suitable car, which they aren't, with them alone the components industry they depend on could not have survived on the volume.

Our last 4 manufacturers all made the decision on new cars about the same time. At that time the market was for large 6 cylinder cars, with a V8 option. However the long lead time it takes today, & the multimillion development costs did them all.

By the time even Mitsubishis 380 came to market, the required car was smaller, or 4X4 wagon. The wrong car killed Mitsubishi in Oz, & has now killed Ford, Holden & Toyota.

Yes the huge labor costs, pushed up by the last governments sped the death, but Holden, even moving to produce the smaller Cruise could not generate enough sales to support their plants & those labor costs.

I hate to see them go. The Commodore & the Falcon were a couple of the best value cars in the world, but as 4WDs became more comfortable, smaller cars more competent, & government stopped buying them they became nonviable.

I drove in the first ever Holden Dealer Team at Bathurst, I wonder if I could con them to give me a drive in the last? I'd probably kill myself, but what a way to go.

An interesting observation.
Could the decisions by the whole car manufacturing industry in Australia to close be just a coincidence ?

There has been discussion on US web sites that GM has pulled out of
Europe because the usage of cars in Europe is falling and many young
people are not buying cars at all.
I have seen figures that similar situations are developing in both the US and Australia.

Peak hour travel on suburban trains is increasing rapidly which may
mean that many families no longer need two cars.
The cost of petrol and motorway charges are also increasing.

Even in the US car mileage or usage has fallen significantly.
All of the above would lead to lower sales indefinitely.

The view of Australia to GM, Ford & Toyota might have coalesced into one decision.
Get out, while the getting out is good.

Have the car companies been reading their tea leaves ?

I don't think this can become a factor in Oz Bazz, even in the medium term.

Unlike the older part of the US, & much of Europe, which developed when people walked or cycled to work in the factory, most of Oz, like California developed after the car became common. In much of Oz we have industrial areas & dormitory suburbs. With much of our industry, even rail transport is not within walking distance of workplaces.

One of my biggest complaints about planning is the love of high-rise centralised workplaces, serviced by public transport. City centers become horrific places. Much better decentralized workplaces scattered throughout the outer suburbs, close to those dormitories.

We also have too many working parents who have to deliver kids to a couple or more different places, on their way to work, & return. No form of public transport yet developed can handle the diverse travel requirement of these people.

I feel we are about to see some massive changes across the board in Oz. They have been coming for some time. Much will not be to our taste.
It is a time where the best leadership we can find will be needed but sadly this is the area where we are lacking, and have been for some time.
It is mostly of our own doing as the warning signs have been there for a very long time.
Opportunities were lost and it is now too late. It will be some time before the Lucky Country will have that title again, if ever.
SD

Unsure Bazz.
The sad event was going to happen in any case.
But look me in the eye and say the following is untrue.
Abbott,s factory door stops seem bland after the loss of so very much manufacturing under him.
And had these events took place before last years election Abbott would have blamed Labor for each of them.

Well that makes 50,000 jobs lost. I think it was going to happen no matter what. Abbott and co have been there for 5 months and done nothing , they are just marking time. 40 billion lost in three months by now it will be 60 billion. When are they going to do something, or they don't have the expertise. This mob were all talk, before the election and since then nothing has occurred.

Yes Belly, the doorstops are very bland and will continue to be so
while ever both parties fail to face up to what happened in 2006 to 2008.
They can only waffle around the subject.
I guess they must understand as they suppressed that BITRE117 report.
They would not have done that if they were not afraid of it being
generally understood by business and the public.
The car factory closure decision was not made in the in the last couple of months.
They have been mulling it over for a while, that is how it is done.
A government bailout would have only kept the wolf from the door for a couple of years.

Hasbeen, the public transport situation is worse in the US and that
trend is strong in the US and likewise here many young people are not
even getting driver's licences. The local trend was reported in the
local papers following the US report.
Roads are still packed bumper to bumper !

What is 579 on about $40billion loss becomes $60billion ?

Let's look at the car industry and go back ten years.

During this time the only reason they have stayed here is because they have been subsidized.

Also, during this period the unions have been relentless in their quest to secure wages and conditions well above manufacturing industry standards. They pushed and pushed, then they pushed even more.

Finally the industry has become so over burdened by costs that not even a nominal amount of tax payer subsidy can save them, so the only solution is to quit and even that is going to cost a small fortune as the average production worker with Holden will walk away with between $300K and $500K. Any wonder they don't want to renegotiate their greedy union gains.

Of cause costs is just one issue, but it was a boil waiting to burst and it has finally burst.

To blame Abott is typical of a labor supporter, but just-look at the mess they encouraged with their unconditional support over the past six years of labor.

I also find it amusing that the likes of 579, less than a year ago said, don't worry, we are in great shape.

As an example I recently got a quote to have a tipper body built for a new truck. 4m x 2.2 m and was quoted a staggering $20,900. For what amounted to about two grands worth of steel, two grands worth of hydraulics.

The problem is costs as the charge rate for these workers is now around $120 per hour.

Manufacturing in this country is dead!

The Labor government went out of its way to increase the cost of doing business, and to empower the unions to extract increases in the face of falling revenues.

Since Electricity Bill and his green partners in crime have blocked all legislative attempts to rectify the situation, the Labor party has to accept 100% of the blame for the closures.

"Ford had signalled it would pull out of local production in 2016, and General Motors-Holden was girding its loins for a similar announcement. Local production of Toyota's next generation Camry – and its larger Aurion spinoff – was up for grabs after the current model ran out in 2017. Toyota Motor Corp was due to make the crucial decision this year.

In the circumstances, you'd think the Toyota workers and the Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union would play ball. But instead, the union orchestrated a Federal Court challenge by a handful of shop stewards to prevent Toyota putting the changes to its workers for a vote, citing a "no extra claims" clause in the enterprise agreement."

The wages of holden tradespersons 15 november 2013 was. New starter tradesperson $1147/wk as the person gained experience in the particular work and over many years the top rate was $1547/wk.
BUTCH your walk away prize money is for employees that have been there for twenty and thirty years.

Well, this was very predictable.
We of all first world countries, subsidize manufacture less than any first world country! Car manufacture supports more than 30,000 jobs in Victoria alone. And flow on factors could end up costing more than 150,000 jobs.
Some of these workers could be employed elsewhere; as part time drink waiters and boot polishers for the tourist industry? But many will go from being productive taxpayers to dole recipients.
These two numbers as lost tax and increased benefit allowances, plus the probable recession that will flow, could conceivably cost much much more than subsidizing car manufacture in this country.
Rationally, we could have limited that taxpayer support to just one car company; namely, that which had developed a large exponentially expanding export market!
Other companies looking at earning similar support, could have developed a significant export market?
We lead the world in molded carbon fibre production! We invented methane powered ceramic cells. and there is a large market in our region for clean running carbon free, right hand drive electric vehicles!
Why haven't we rolled out with urgent alacrity, both CAD and CAM facilities and training in all out technical schools and TAFE colleges? Way aren't we looking 20/30/50 years ahead and a feasible plan to quite dramatically drive down manufacture costs? Namely, the quite exorbitant cost of energy, transport and water.
Why haven't our so-called leaders already acted to reduce the tax bill of all local industry?
95% of corporate Australia is headquartered offshore; namely to avoid or minimize tax.
50% of something is always better than the 100% of nothing we now receive as company tax, from at least 40% of these multinational companies?
Why is it so difficult to reform this industry?
Lack of the requisite testicular fortitude in our so-called leaders perhaps!?
Even when every boy and hie dog knows, we have no other choice, if we wish to remain a country that still makes things, even as our mining industries decline; none of which can ever be replaced by dining industries!.
Rhrosty.

Nothing lasts for ever. At least this seems to relate in no uncertain way to companies world wide. As an interesting exercise I typed into Google

"what is the average life time of a company ?"

I was quite surprised at the plethora of information and statistics that were revealed. I would invite you to take a look. Apparently the average expectancy of a multinational corporation-Fortune 500 or its equivalent, is only between 40 and 50 years.

The American auto industry is also in a parlous state and you only have to look at the City of Detroit and the fact that they are now bankrupt to realise that we are in an ever changing world. Things die and are born again. It's the way things are and will continue to be. It's very sad, but we live in a world of change so we have to remain flexible. Even with a lot of technological development the market will always dictate outcomes.

I read that America's top personal computer maker, Hewlett Packard was dumped from the Dow.. Just one more example and Professor Foster estimates that by 2020, more than three quarters of the S & P 500 will be companies that we have not heard of yet

I just thought another perspective should be introduced to this discussion.

......BUTCH your walk away prize money is for employees that have been there for twenty and thirty years.

Ar 579, never let the truth get in that way of a good story, hey!

Firstly, you forgot loadings and perks.

Secondly, the walk away money as you call it was an average figure, so your extra long tremors would receive more.

Snake, I agree with what you say, accept that I doubt there will be many out there willing to take the risk to fill the void.

I too think it's worth trying to save one of the three car makers, then, rather than just provide a hand out, we buy into that company so at leas if they walk, we retain the plants.

The other effect these closures will have is that they will most likely see real wages take a dive, simply because of the imbalance in the supply and demand labor market, funnily, the same market force that drove wages and conditions to where they are today.

meanwhile we still have huge anounts of tradespeople coming from Sth Africa and every other nation on 457's. Something does not add up. Why are not those on the Government gravy train taking up these 457 jobs?

Rehctub, why would we want to retain the plant ?
By plant I presume you mean all the machines, robots etc ?
The buildings I can see could be useful for a business park.
Probably the robots etc will be taken by the car companies or returned
to the lessors.

Whatever engineering business is established it is unlikely to be such
as heavy engineering, but electrical and or electronics or similar
automation industries.
The future of transport is almost certain to be very rail orientated.
I can suggest one project that could use part of a car factory.
To build an automated container transfer system to move containers from
one train to another at break of gauge points and to also automatically
load and unload containers on & off road trucks.

Someone with more knowledge of railways than me would probably be
able to make many more suggestions such as signalling equipment.

However what it needs is politicians that can see the changes coming
and see future needs.

About 40 years ago Australian clothing and footwear industries moved overseas; we now import cheap footwear and clothing. About 20 years ago hardware and building product manufacturing moved overseas we now import cheap hardware product because local costs cannot compete. Currently we see car manufacturing going overseas because imported cars are cheaper than local manufactured.

People will find employment but the wage packet will be smaller as we move toward World equalization and we are ruled by fewer employers

Rhrosty it is cheaper having them on the dole.

We were paying up to $50,000 each, taxpayer money to pay process workers up near $100,000 a year.

Process workers, just one step above street sweepers, how can an industry work with that stupidity.

They used blackmail tactics to get those ridiculous wages, lead by union bosses now all too often in parliaments around the country. It is the companies most damaged by strikes that end up with these wages, & then fail. Why would anyone invest in Oz?

AS far as I am concerned they should be thrown to the wolves, they are certainly not worth the redundancy packages mentioned, when it is their crap in their nest that sent it rotten.

Take a look at the advertisement on this page of the Great Wall dual cab at $20,990 compared to the Holden dual cab at least 12,000 dearer.
A work utility if it lasts 6 years it has done its life.

....I can suggest one project that could use part of a car factory.

Bazz, at some point in time our governments are going to have to employ people and create jobs for them, the writing is on the wall.

So to have an option, such as a car manufacturing plant would be a good start.
As for railways, the reason most don't use it for freight is costs.

The cost of shipping to, unloading from rail, then delivering to customer is more expensive than just sending a B- double or flat bed semi.

Then you have the intrenched poor productivity if the government owned rail system, which is on par with our ports.

Yes Josephus, it's called supply V demand, as many of the conditions enjoyed today are as a result of negotiations where the employers hands were tied due to demand.

The trouble is, as in Toyotas case, the unions won't negotiate back down, so we have to do things the hard way.

As for the Great Wall, may I suggest you talk to someone who actually owns one, and works it hard.

You may be surprised, as the main cause of frustration for owners is down time.

As a contractor performing a major project, reliability is the key word, and it's hard to be reliable with an unreliable tool.

As my late dad used to always say, buy the cars the cabbies use. Same goes for outboard motors, buy the motor the pros use.

Value for money does not start and end with the purchase.

Here you go lads,

"Toyota has raised its annual net profit forecast by more than 10 percent. It is now looking at the equivalent of 6.6 billion euros for the year.
That is based on strong sales, particularly in its biggest market the United States, as it shipped a record number of vehicles last year. A fall in the value of the yen against other currencies is also helping. Among Japan’s big three automakers Toyota, Nissan and Honda, analysts see Toyota as the most likely to benefit from a weakening yen because it has the highest ratio of production in Japan, more than half of which it exports. But the world’s best-selling carmaker said it would not build any new factories over the next three years despite the pickup in its fortunes. “It’s easy to confuse volume expansion with true growth as a company,” Senior Managing Officer Takahiko Ijichi told reporters. “We’re getting rid of that way of doing business,” he added.”
http://www.euronews.com/2013/02/05/toyota-looks-to-profit-boost/

So the problem is really currency based. I suppose with the Australian dollar being a floating currency the opportunity for controlling it comes from other levers. The now defunct mining tax would have helped but hey, that is now history.

What is interesting is that Toyota's strength now seems to lie in the fact it kept much of its manufacturing in Japan. Its workers are not paid 2nd world rates like the Chinese or Thai rates rather first world.

That does not mean they have not flirted with dropping wages and conditions by employing a more casualised workforce.

In 2004 the ration of non-regular to regular employees at Toyota factories was at 12.5%. By 2006 this had risen to 29.1%. It immediately led to quality issues, the “move to individualised payment led to a series of difficulties, including a diminution in the team ethos, heightened conflict between older and younger employees, and greater cross-functional tension as company-wide objectives were supplanted by departmental performance targets.”

By 2010 the ratio had quite dramatically returned to 12.2%.

Cont...

Cont...

As one Toyota plant manager explained;

“‘I’d like to increase the ratio of regular workers because this would make it possible to provide more quality products.  It is needed to get a higher percentage of regular workers… [but] the decision is made at the top of the headquarters. Gradually, headquarters has recognized the necessity to increase the ratio of regular workers so now this plant is trying to employ good temporary workers who might become regular workers. But it is difficult to find good temporary workers’.”

To me one of the keys to the successes in Japan and Germany seems to be company based rather than universal union representation.

“Company unions, the third pillar of Japan’s post-war employment system, remain important in understanding developments; all five components suppliers had company unions. Toyota’s trade union negotiates both the amount of bonus and the regular salary on an annual basis. Every January the union requests increases in each item in the Table and there is a wage determination process in March through the spring wage negotiation. As in other plants, any changes in the payment system at Toyota require negotiation between management and union.

I think Paul Howes was right to raise this as an issue he was willing to explore, and to have the PM dismiss it out of hand smacks of a fixation on outdated and non-constructive union bashing.
http://iveybusinessjournal.com/topics/global-business/continuity-and-change-in-japans-automotive-industry

Adding to Abbott's dismissal out of hand of Howe's germ of an idea we have Hockey's verballing of Toyota and comments made by our PM et al re supposed overly-generous workplace conditions at SPC and in the auto-industry (except management's, of course) as the root cause of demise, and opening royal commissions into unions for political purposes.

The HR Nicholls Society is alive and well. We will never lift ourselves higher with this winner take all approach of liar ideologues. It's funny, tho', how ideology can be compromised for, say, a Taswegian chocolate factory. Must have been a melting moment.

Rehctub, you are right of course it is cheaper to send by truck but
at that will change as fuel gets more expensive.

When I sit on the station and watch a hundred or more containers go
thundering through at near 100km/hr all under the control of two men
I just cannot see sleep deprived truck drivers competing.

It has to end soon and the sooner the better.

Bazz,
Possibly my imagination but there appears to be less trucks crossing the Nullarbor these days and then I see those enormous container trains running through Kalgoorlie and I suspect it is not imagination.
Over trans con distances these trains would have to be more efficient.
SD

Yes SD you are right. If they could get the city terminal organised so
local trucks could receive containers of trains quickly & easily it
would mean even shorter trips by rail would be more economic.
Which was the point of my comment about using the car factory to build
automatic container transfer equipment.

The very basics of economics is that free trade always benefits both parties, and that messing with market via protectionism always comes back to bite everyone in the backside.

Protecting the car industry, has for decades provided jobs for thousands of workers, but increased the cost of transport for hundreds of thousand of businesses and many millions of consumers, increasing the cost of living, and of manufacturing pretty much every thing else.

The point of subsidies is to get a new industry with potential off the ground or protect an industry through a temporary glitch. When the industry needs tariffs and subsidies to survive day to day, it has become a parasite, and needs to be cut off.

EXACTLY shadow minister.. so many people only see one side of a problem. Wealth is created for everyone by profitable free enterprise. When governments start to meddle with the economy….That's when the problems start.

Why is it that WA has the highest unemployment figures when they neither have a car industry or a canning factory?

Josephus,
I think WA had the biggest rise but is still one of the lowest at 5.1 percent.
Many large mining projects are reaching the production stage which would account for the rise. Less people are required once the mine finishes the construction stage.
Not an abnormal event in the west as mineral demand is reflected in the associated manufacturing and construction etc.
Not necessarily boom or bust but is does fluctuate substantially and has been like that for as far back as I can recall.
Governments sadly, appear to be always out of step with these fluctuations. What more can you expect with unqualified politicians running the country.
Take it easy.
SD

Josephus, mining is your answer, because that's pretty much all they have and, if they have to pay taxes on top of taxes, they sitmonmtheirnhands and await good times again, or, they ramp down their production and run on skeleton staff.

It's called a reaction, tomthe action that was imposed on them.

Butcher,
It all comes down to the price of the commodity at the time.
I can recall pulling the drill out of the hole and seeing gold up front, in your face, the Geo was not interested because gold was not worth a damn at the time. Nickel was all the go.
And so it goes. That particular spot became a big gold mine in later years.
Country that is crud at one time becomes an ore body at some other time, it all depends on demand and price.
Pollies don't have a lot to do with that. Their masters do.
SD

Yes SD I agree, but now that the good times are taxed so heavily, miners will sit out the bad times. The result, lost jobs.

How clever is that, talk about 5hit in your mown nest.

Butcher,
A bit off topic but I kept an eye on those leases for a while where I saw the gold in the sample. No opportunity arose to slip in and peg the country whilst I was watching, sadly.
I had to confine my pegging activities to other areas. Interesting business without a doubt. I still kick and crack a rock from time to time, it gets in the blood.
SD