Australia's taxation base is very limited. We need more funds to pay for essential services. To do this we need more money. Yet very few people seem to be willing to accept an increase in the rate of the GST. Why?

An Australian newspaper editorial gives an emotional but fake sounding editorial on the matter - to protect the Liberal Party at:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/editorials/no-excuse-for-gst-increase/story-e6frg71x-1226724720856

The people of Australia - should be willing to pay more in GST to get better roads, hospitals, schools and other services for their benefit.

tax ignorance
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6196&page=9

Flat Tax & be done with it. Pay so much in the Dollar & all your contrbutions for pension, health care are taken care of. No deductions after you get your pay unless you want extra & then you simply contribute more. No writing anything off. Earn a Dollar pay so much Tax. My guess is 20% would cover it. Also, a couple of stipulations where you want some of your tax Dollar to go. Sorry, hangers-on you'll need to put in an effort in my system. Ah & yes, no dole unless you've done National Service. Get it ?

NathanJ, the GST is a very inefficient tax as it gets paid by business, then claimed back, then paid by the next step, then claimed back then finally the consumer pays the tax and that's it, the end of the line.

Another problem with this tax is that it is a one off retail tax.

It is my view that the best tax option would be a transaction tax, as unlikenthe GST, income tax and company tax, it is paid ove and over again as money changes hands.

Now the interesting part is that we as PAYG earners woukd only ever pay the tax once because you can only spend money once and, as it's been suggest that a TT tax of just 2% will replace every other tax we have, so the most any PAYG earner would pay is $20 out of every $1000.00.

The trick is that this is a tax on money, not people, so, the very small tax is generated every single time your $1000 is transferred from one account to another and this happens thousands of time each and every day.

The other strong point of this tax is that businesses, large or small pay just as much tax (per dollar) as the average person on the street therefore removing the unfair arrangement we have now whereby ABN holders get their GST back.

So in effect it is a flat tax, it's just on money not people which makes it much more fairer in my view.

The problem with increasing the GST is that it hurts low income earners because, unlike high earners, they (low earners) often require 100% of their income for necessities, so to increase this will hurt them more than anyone else.

We did have a perfectly good mining tax once.

but nah that was a "great big new tax" wasnt it

Lets slug the povos with an increase in GST and lower the threshold for buying stuff from overseas while your at it.
And dont forget to abolish the plebs penalty rates and drive out every manufacturer we can. And then when they end up penniless and on the dole we can kick em some more.

Is this what they mean by "class war"?

Better idea.

Get rid of half the bureaucrats, & ALL the NGOs, & we will be able to cut taxes.

NathanJ - Quote "The people of Australia - should be willing to pay more in GST to get better roads, hospitals, schools and other services for their benefit." BUT a lot of the cost is in bureaucratic incompetence For example the $2 Billion dollar Hospital in Perth that has more than 200 staff BUT will not open for patients for 8 Months $50 million dollars minimum for nothing.

If the Government fixed up the loopholes the rich us to avoid tax then there would be no need to increase GST.

That raise is also needed to pay for the 50,000 Plus so called refugees Labor incompetence let in.

Despite an iron clad promise from "Honest" Johnny Howard that there would never ever be a GST from his government, at the first opportunity he introduced one. Despite a iron clad promise to never ever increase the GST from 10% we now have the conservatives, the so called minimum tax people, wanting to increase the GST to 15% or more. The conservatives are very much in favor of this flat consumption tax on two grounds. One, its a tax on the poor, where by the old age pensioner on a few dollars a weeks pay the same amount of tax on a meat pie as does the billionaire Gina Rhinoceros, I can hear the conservatives now "But Gina Rhinoceros consumes many more meat pies that the average pensioner does" I say so what. Secondly and more importantly its a business bonus. where by since its introduction business has ripped billions of more dollars from the tax system by simply pocketing the GST for themselves.

The lies of "Honest" John Howard on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixn9fFatdcs

and a good piece from the Canberra Times on lies from politicians.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/more-than-promises-broken-when-our-politicians-recant-20120927-26nro.html

In all the years of taking and interest in Australia politics from pre Whitlam to the present. I must say, when it comes to lying to the Australian public it has been the conservative side of politics that history has proved to show are the big political lairs. Is it due to their general disdain for the average Australian, their "born to rule mentality", I don't know.

One of the fundamental things that we need to do as part of tax reform is to greatly reduce the rate of increase in the demand for everything that our tax dollars are spent on.

Sure we could increase the GST or introduce a flat tax or somehow get the big business sector and the rich to pay their fair share.

But rather than just thinking of the money-supply side of the issue – which is what practically everything thinks only of – we need to look very closely at the demand side as well. Think about the amount of our tax revenue that has to be spent on forever duplicating all the basic infrastructure and services for ever-more people.

By greatly reducing immigration and heading towards a stable population, we would be doing much more for tax reform than if we successfully achieved even the most optimistic supply-side improvements.

Ludwig. speaking in general terms we have a very strong expectation in Australian society for "welfare" not just for the poor but for all in society, the rich, the corporate and the poor, everybody. At the same time we have a general expectation for lower taxes. How do you accommodate both expectations?
It is easy to "spot" direct welfare, the cash given to the needy, its not so easy to "spot" the indirect welfare in the form of grants, subsidies you name it given to other more powerful sections of the community. In fact these sections are the first to deny that they even receive "welfare", they very much see themselves as givers and not receivers.

Morning NathaJ we speak about this from time to time, emotion seem to over rule the Brain when we do.
Before the election in a thread about tax reform I said I thought Abbott, despite words to the contrary,would do it,and as a Labor voters said I would support it.
I am unlikely to bring the Australian in to any debate unless it is the warn of Murdock's power, and his miss use of it.
But you touch on the truth, like it or not tax reform is over due, some will hurt some help.
Many just plain silly tax,s could be dumped and a GST higher than it now is, maybe 15 percent, would more than cover that.

Australians are reluctant tosee our welfare transport education health and much more are in part Socialism, nothing wrong with that.
But we pay in the end.
And if we stop paying those who want less tax will cry unfair.
GST if we confront the truth is a fairer tax getting at least some tax from those who work hard to avoid it.

I'm with Indi on this one.

I have put forward my idea before a couple of times.

A flat Tax of 10% on Gross, same as the GST, no deductions for anything for any reason. 20% on any money/artwork/property going into a trust Fund or anything like it. 20% on any money going into Off Shore Bank Accounts. 20% on all Perks/bonuses. Huge fines for any attempted avoidance. Confiscation for deliberate avoidance. Have I left anything out.

Halt all Overseas AID except for immediate Emergency AID for Disasters.

Hi NathanJ,

It’s interesting that the “takers” in society promote increases in tax on the “producers”?

Regardless of the size of the pie they squawk for a bigger piece.

As for the social and infrastructure spending, it’s worth a thought that whenever economic activity is reduced by bad policy, the tax take is reduced. No rocket science there.

The government of the day is then expected to fill the gap by spending more public money. When there isn’t enough money we hear calls for higher taxes. Funny that?

More pie please sir!

Nathan,
Funny thing the previous Howard government found the tax base adequate.

It was the last big spending government that racked up all the debt.

Lesson learned. We just need governments that are prepared to live within our means and stop tryimg to buy votes by giving handouts to all and sundry.

alex exposes some of the lies behind,,the curtain
http://rss.infowars.com/20140206_Thu_Alex.mp3

pLus the next 'Tax'..[future world currency/carbon credit]
so forget taxing..our consumption,,soon we shall see who was cheating their fair share..for too long its easier TO Collect the pennies from the poor..to pour gold in ITS MILLIONS INTO THE FAMILY TRUSTS OF the few elite.

get UP TO Speed
[as this info sites owner is dying
once its gone..so are we..save THE WORDS WHILE YOU CAN

http://whatreallyhappened.com/

anyhow..the other voice..audible//lives on
THIS format..allows the skipping of the commerce

http://xml.nfowars.net/Alex.rss

ANYHOW..the wikiseed/wikigeld..offer remains open[we dont NEED YOUR SYSTEM]..plus you can fIX THE CONSTITUTED..money system,115..BY RETURNING THE COIN FACE VALUES....BACK TO REAL VALUE/if the bwankers..hasnt inflated away its true worth/BY DEBASING THE VALUE from the coin.

IT DONT NEED..to end this way
as revealed in alex show todaY
http://rss.infowars.com/20140206_Thu_Alex.mp3
ALT End

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15820&page=0
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0

....We did have a perfectly good mining tax once.
Do you mean the one that cost millions to implement and returned next to nothing. Yep! Well worth saving.

Nice rant Paul, that ones getting a bit old don't you think. Besides, in all fairness he did take it to the electorate, unlike a certain carbon tax hey!

...How do you accommodate both expectations?, unfortunately Paul, it's called vote buying and is rife in both major parties.

Jayb, investors are a very important part of the housing industry and if you toy with the incentives, like increasing taxes, then you take the risk of chasing them away. The result being where do people live.

Banjo, governments spending money is one thing, but the previous government wasted too much, the result being so many unfinished, unfunded projects and no money left to address the issues.

Nathanj you will need humor to get you past some on this subject and for others?
An ability to not be dragged down.
Banjo if J W Howard was still PM he as is Abbott would be considering tax reform.
May I ask that some look at the VAT in England? it I believe has been raised at least once.
Tax reform is dead ground for political slanging matches,,m that it is needed is a simple truth.
Abbott will cop plenty if he raises it but not from me
My fellow travelers might be interested to be reminded it will not be us the left of center or the fixed right of it that wins elections, in the end the uncommitted hopefully can see for them selves Australia is best served by other than fixed immoveable s like Shadow Minister

Belly,
The only reason the present government may need to increase the tax base is because of the massive debt they inherited from the Labor government.

It would be good if Labor/green supporters here acknowledged that fact. Borrowed money has to be repaid, with interest, which present Labor do not understand, or do not care about. So much for the public interest.

Paul1405 said;
Despite an iron clad promise from "Honest" Johnny Howard that there
would never ever be a GST from his government, at the first opportunity he introduced one.

Now, I know that you know the truth about that because you have been
told previously.
The GST was introduced AFTER an election during which it was part of
the campaign to introduce a GST.

When you repeat that the way you do it makes you the liar, not John Howard.
You damage your own reputation. I can see that the way you wrote it
is to enable you to say,
"I didn't say that it was not mentioned in the election".
Knowing full well that anyone who didn't know that it was an election
policy would presume that Howard lied.

It is a pretty sneaky way to write a comment.
Perhaps Andrew Bolt is right about the left !

I've read one comment which more fits more in with my line of thought. With a GST increase, review how you live and be willing to pay more in tax (much more simply) to have better community services and infrastructure. I don't really want to hear silly debates about eating pies and tax. I don't see tax reform as a result going far in Australia as a result.

Belly in fairness to Abbott, while he did say he will not touch the GST, he has included it in the agenda of tax assessments, or what ever he called it, so there is a chance he will visit that come next election.

Paul, if he does take an increase to the next election, can I suggest that you take note of that, because you obviously missed it when Howard did the same. Either that or you are just blowing more hot air.

I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt.

"Do you mean the one that cost millions to implement and returned next to nothing. Yep! Well worth saving."

No I mean the one originally proposed by Kevin Rudd. The one the lieberals and their mining masters killed. The one phony rabbott called "a great big new tax". An epithet i intend to use every time these liars try to weasel out of their supposedly rock solid support for low taxes and small government. Filthy Hypocrites.

Rehctub, anyone who reviews taxes has got to consider every tax so that
you can examine the effect of one tax on another.
However it seems to depend on your political leanings whether want to
use it to bash someone over the head with it.

How many politicians have a family trust?

Why is not the use of trust structures targeted?

Bazz, I offer no pretense of fairness to the conservative side of politics. No more than you would offer such a concession to the left. Please none of this piety here. Neither of us will sway opinion on the forum one way or the other. Like a parliamentarian holding forth on a particular bill, no matter what he may say, he doesn't sway the vote one iota.
You said
"Now, I know that you know the truth about that because you have been
told previously.
The GST was introduced AFTER an election during which it was part of
the campaign to introduce a GST."

I know that, but it does not diminish the fact Howard made such a promise, and that sometime later the promise was no more, How Howard achieved that circumstance is irrelevant.

Rubbish. Initiate new Govt Banks and we can actually reduce taxes. Iceland told the banksers to take a jump and now has unemployment of 2%.

Arjay, once upon a time we had government owned banks. the Feds had the Commonwealth Bank and the states ran their own banks. Not only did they offer competition to the private banks they actually lead the market. this was no good to the big end of town and they made sure such juicy plumbs were given over to them at rock bottom prices. The politicians gave the usual assurances that the new privatised banks would operated as per usual serving the ordinary Australians first and share holders second. That provided to be an unreal expectation. the "new" banks soon abandoned any semblance of serving the people and fell into line with the rest of the money grabbing oligopoly.

Retchub
Yes, yes to your transaction tax. Finally someone who's mind is not hypnotised.
It beggars belief that we continue to be entrapped with this patch work of crazy inefficient tax methods. And the GST would challenge for being the least efficient.

A transaction tax has all the advantages and no disadvantages. It instantly captures the widest number, it is entirely progressive as the more you transact the wealthier you are. It captures speculation which nowadays is huge and entirely tax free.

In fact there is really only one problem with a transaction tax - it works too bloody well and would make avoidance near impossible. And probably put a lot of accountants out of business.

Spindoc
Who exactly are these producers? I doubt more then 15% of our economy is made up of what could be labelled as producers. Farmers, miners, manufacturers, builders and those who support them retailers, transporters, while the rest of us play in an imaginary world of little more than entertainment. Administering Byzantine laws, regulations, procedures, speculations.

What do lawyers, accountants, financial planners, lenders, consultants, council staff, parking officers, politicians and their staff, psychologists, social workers, business studies teachers, defense personnel... Produce? Our entire economy is riddled with excess, inefficiency, waste. We take all this for granted as production but it is a perversion of the words meaning. It is certainly not production. It maybe a kind of bloated administration but largely its boredom and people just inventing things to do.

Our capabilities have entirely outstripped our intellect. What is now possible is so much more and we instead are fixated in 19 th century thinking and 19th century debates.
A pox on that. Our tax system is not of this century. Having everyone complete these stupid forms each quarter or year in an electronic marketplace which operates 24/7 is quite frankly laughable. By the way are my Internet charges tax deductible?

Paul said;
I know that, but it does not diminish the fact Howard made such a
promise, and that sometime later the promise was no more, How Howard
achieved that circumstance is irrelevant.

Paul, it is not irrelevant, the opportunity was offered to the voters
to reject it.
What you are saying is that no politician can either change his mind
or find a change of circumstances forces a change.

That is what has happened to the greens and the labour party.
They have both become hoist on their own petards (policies & dogma).

You wrote the way you did to delude the unaware to think that Howard lied.
It was cynical

YEBIGA, the word you are looking for is "Overheads".

"Honest" Johnny Howard that there would never ever be a GST from his government,
Paul1405,
That Lie as you like to malign it as was an absolutely true statement AT THAT TIME. As the economics of Australia worsened due to years of ALP mismanagement Howard ended up finding that a GST & only a GST could pull Australia out of the ALP inherited proverbial crap. It wasn't a lie when Howard put it up BEFORE the election & gave dencent Australians the opportunity to vote for the better of the country unlike the ALP supporting parisite club.
Situations change & we all have to do a 180 at times. You never know even you might acquire some sense one day & agree with us.

Paul remarks like individuals are giving increasing evidence Torys just do not except any wrong on their side.
Howard did lie.
His never ever again statement was as untrue as Gillards no tax statement.
Now think on that.
Consider the bitterness and bile heaped on my side, some quite justly.

How can I so very often take the broom to the wrongs in my team, but those so willing to avoid the truth never dare except the wrongs in their tent?
Telling and above all this question arises
Do Conservative voters require constant improvement from their side?
Or will they forever except wrongs by not confronting it?

indi..those times..leading up to keating selling off the commonwealth bank for 8 billion..[funny enough ITS YEARly..prophet this year alone]..was sold off because keating needed to borrow from it..at 3 PERCENT[BUT..the new world order said no..you will borrow it from us at 12%..plus sell off the bank..or else..so HE DID

ANYHOW..THOSE..were the times of high inflation[AFTER THEY DEVALUED CURRENCY TOOK THE STERLING/silver from OUR COIN..[IE gold/silver coin..is only lawfull TENDER../lawfull..as per constitution 115..LAWFULL/tender..ie real gold/silver-coin]

but the debasement[treason]..of the queens coin..was supressed[but those in the know could exchange THEIR sterling silver coin..into them roUND 50 cENT pieces..but all the others [ignorantly]..traded their silver coin for nickle

as the values 'resettled''..via inflation..we copper high intrest
[it was a glkobal thing[jfk issued green -backs [tradeable for silver by weight[dollar = weight..in silver

just as a pound was promise to pay in sterling silver[real silver]
JUST AS A sHILLING OR A PENNY WAS WEIGHT IN SILVER/copper coin TOO[taking that way..set up all the abuses that follow

think..about it..DEBASEMENT..OF THE QUEENS COIN[TrEASON]..AND WE LET THEM

JUST LIKE WE LET THEM TAKE OVER MONEY CREATION..VIA THE FED..thats when they took our gold[you may notice they took our copper coins away..too..AND NOW WANT TO DO AWAY WITH ALL COIN.

these things are planned
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerwars.php

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/slavetobanks.php

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fedponzi.php

http://rss.infowars.com/20140207_Fri_Alex.mp3

Belly,
Cut it out, although you seem to strive on hypocicy it really doesn't suit you. What about all the broken promises from your parasite club then ? Do you think broken promises aren't lies ? Broken promises are worse than lies. At least Howard had the gonads to put it to the electorate up front. Let's have a little honesty & integrity here. tell us where you think you'd be by now if it weren't for the GST ? Have SOME integrity mate !

Some on here seem to think a politician should NEVER change his mind !

To compare Howard's mind change to Gillard's mind change is to say the
very least dishonest.

Would you vote for a politician who come hell or high water would NEVER change his mind ?

Bazz! surely you understand the impact of your words!
Good Grief bloke you prove my point and scuttle yours under you!
It a lie if Labor does it but a mind change if Liberal does it!
Hugely funny but deadly telling too!
I begin to understand your refusal on many threads to even consider peak oil is not about to murder us in our beds.

Belly, you did not read carefully enough.
The difference between Howard & Gillard was Howard put the change up
to an election, Gillard did change after saying she would not do it.

I do not mind a change of opinion by either but Gillard did not change
it because she had a change of opinion, she did it because she could
not get power via the greens unless she did.

That makes a very big difference.
The silly thing on Gillard's part was the greens were never going to
support anyone else anyway, so she sold her soul for for power needlessly.

No peak oil need not be homicidal but if the dopey politicians will
listen to their own government reports, eg BITRE 117 they will make
it a lot easier on all of us, after all it is simple enough arithmetic.

Gillard was/is an evil sub creation that belongs in the dark ages.
She is the subject of so many investigations that her history is going to make Underbelly look like Disneyland.

The GST should be 15& on necessities including food and rent and 25% on luxury goods.

Non production should be taxed and productivity rewarded.

Anything we can make here should be subsided with increased protection tariffs.

Commenting on the bellowed refrain (Hewson I seem to recall) of "Broaden the tax base" Keating responded: "You mean the many pay more so the few can pay less?". This is precisely the purpose of indirect taxation. It's what it's for. And blow me down, it's just what the Libs went on to do. A GST introduced to fund a cut in the corporate tax rate from 36% to 30%.

Howard didn't propose the GST in the election campaign but wouldn't exclude it. Whether he lied is moot. But no liar can be more despicable, never again qualifying for a scintilla of respect from anyone with even the most equivocal moral compass, than one who as PM of Australia lies our country into war, and demonises Andrew Wilkie, the one spook with the common decency to speak the truth. Or who participates in a government that acts on that blatant campaign of transparent lies.

Bazz, the definition of a lie is;

"a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood,
something intended or serving to convey a false impression
an inaccurate or false statement"

Honest John Howard and his "Never ever a GST" statement fits the bill, it was in my view false, deliberately intended to deceive, it was in fact an intentional untruth at the time. You say Howard introduced his GST through the honorable method of putting it to the people, that might be so, and I may add at the time of elections politicians are putting lots of things to the people, some things acceptable and others unacceptable, Howard's grab bag of promises, on balance, along with other factors got him elected. Not withstanding any of that, the original statement in my view was intended to convay a false impression, a lie. Just in the way Gillard later claimed a change of circumstance was the reason her government introduced a carbon tax. I tend to feel her explanation was to a degree plausible unforeseen circumstances led to a change and her original "never ever" statement, unlike Howard's, was not deliberately meant to deceive at the time she made it.

Paul1405 I'm still searching the web for a fitting term to describe you. So far no luck, most are too lenient in their meanings.

Paul,
Amazing, Gillard sells her soul for power and you try to excuse it as
a change of circumstances ?

If circumstances had changed and she originally meant not to introduce
the tax, and circumstances really had changed, you might just, just,
get away with saying it was not a lie, but to change it to get
political power is indeed making a pact with the devil.

Gillard got everything she deserved, a pact with the devil always
results in betrayal, Machiavellian plots and political murder.

Shakespeare and many writers of opera have used that plot very sucessfully.

There was no "never ever" statement about the carbon tax from Gillard. The Libs lied. Lying's in their DNA. Only a pathological liar would lie his country into war. See what Gillard really said:

“There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead, but let me be clear: I will be putting a price on carbon and I will move to an emissions trading scheme.”

http://fairmediaalliance.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/there-will-be-no-carbon-tax-under-a-government-i-lead-but-lets-be-absolutely-clear-i-am-determined-to-price-carbon/

[I would call a government-imposed price on a commodity a tax, but econowonks have different terms for what I would call taxes: duty, tariff, excise, price, levy etc. I think they all differ from "tax" when their primary function is other than simply to raise general revenue (like the GST). Whatever, it was lies the mindless barrackers were bellowing when they persistently called her "Juliar". Pity the Labor crowd didn't have the sense to call them on it.]

let juliar be absolutly clEAR HEAR

i will not be taking your labors..I WILLONLY BE TAKING YOUR WAGE

i will not be hurting you
only breaking your leg

i will not be taxing your wage
only your spending

thing is too clever by half=an other NAME FOR LIAR

john howARDS WAY..IS the same same..HE SAYS NO GST EVER
then when we say phew..he changes his mind[SHE STATES no carbon tax..but we will be taking it by another WAY..but its not a tax its a levy

ps i never heard the full statement
thUS MEDIA COMPLICITY..the system is set up to rape us by blindING us.
when we set it up to help us..not them.

LAWYERS SPIN LIES
the poLLS SAID..no way she COULD WIN
she knew greens would want it..so gave in to it..by lying.

THEY ALL DO..[FULL STOP]
EACH AS DIRTY AS THE OTHER.

The Emperor certainly has no clothes, but no matter, the whole argument
is irrelevant anyway, it is just a way to waste money and if they did
not waste it on AGW they would have no problem to find another sink hole for our taxes.

Re the GST, I cannot make up my mind whether it is a good thing or not.
The flat percentage tax seems attractive and the transaction tax also
but we have learnt a lot about unintended consequences in recent times.

I wonder if anyone can judge such complex matters, and the only way to
resolve it is to try it for say five years.
You can see where computer modelling has got us !

If people are paying more in GST - they can be paying for themselves. Last year my brother very badly hurt himself playing local basketball. After surgery he had take 6 weeks of work. All he could do was lay on his lounge at home. It was terrible. He had to receive "tax" payer funds to live. With a percentage of increased GST funds set aside, he could have been somewhat covered - but with what so many have said, a lot of the activity seems to be around John Howard or Julia Gillard telling lies. I'd rather be questioning what their getting in taxpayer funded allowances - after being Prime Minister.

Bazz
A transaction tax requires only the banks to be tax collectors, not millions of businesses.
The money is collected instantaneously, there is no avoidance, no evasion. There is no deduction or exemption claim. No forms to fill out, no lies to be engineered.

The more you transact the wealthier you are the more you pay. The poorer you are the less you transact the less you pay.

It ticks the equity box, it ticks the universal box, it ticks the ease of administering box.

What is the problem? Well one, it captures a huge part of the untaxed economy, namely speculation in derivatives, stocks, commodities and a raft of financial transactions in and between corporations.

The modelling numbers are huge. A half to one percent transaction tax would virtually eliminate the need for any other taxes.

No further need for income tax, gst, excises, payroll tax and their administration
No annual tax returns, no quarterly bas statements, no creative need for trust funds, or holding companies.

In short, all the incentives to create complex machinations to minimise tax is removed. Business and workers can focus on business and work.

The tax code could be reduced to 10 pages.
It is impossible to measure the sheer volume of unproductive, administration, accounting, lawyers and posturing which would be removed in one single swipe.

....How many politicians have a family trust?

Wally B, FT are not the tax havens they once were, brought about mainly frommthe change in PAYG whereby one can earn up to $104,000 before paying top rate.

Also, to receive BEFORE TAX BENEFITS from a trust, one now has to prove they earned that money. Payslips group certs etc. It's no longer the tax dodge it was.

Belly, which ever way you look at it, JH changed his mind and took his tax to the voters, they accepted it, whereas JG said there would be no carbon tax under the gov I lead, then, in that very same term, introduced one without seeking the approval of the voters. It was a lie.

Now if you can't see the difference then you are beyond explanation.

NathanJ, my son suffered a similar accident late last year, he had the surgery (no thanks to our private health rip off) and has been off work since late October, and will be off until at least late April.

Luckily he was wise enough to have income protection, so 1. He doesn't not burden the tax payer, and 2. He had to go without a few things to afford the policy, which he took out on our advice.

Life is all about choices.

You know, I was wondering why we haven't heard from Poirot for some time. I thought maybe he'd been over to Syria with Steelie. Then up pops YEBIGA. Did a little digging & guess what? ;-) Same M.O.

As for the GST, maybe a good idea would be to remove some of the special concessions that some big Business & Mining have negotiated for themselves.

Jayb, those concessions were not negotiated by business, they have always been a part of business.

Now being in business myself, I get my GST back, but I have always maintained that this is wrong, however, if we don't, then the costs will get even higher than they are today.

Given that the tax changes hands so often, yet is only ever paid by the end consumer, makes this a very inefficient tax.

A flat tax on money, not people is a far better option because one, it is very low giving the average Joe lots more to spend, and two, nobody can escape it unless they deal in cash and, given the tax would be only $2 in every $100, there's little incentive for people to want to trade in the risky black market.

Besides, eventually that cash gets spent, the money banked (bank deposit EFTPOS etc) and the tax is collected.

Last week I paid $543 in income tax, so, if a TT tax was in, I would have paid JUST FORTY DOLLARS and spent the additional $503.

interesting point clubman..*except*..YOU WOULD HAVE RECEIVED
$543....
PLUS THE BOSS/PAYER..WOULD HAVE paid..the $40..[out of their account.]

just the tax you paid...is a good take home wage
for many..but your spot on re transaction tax..tax it where its spent

banks can collect it/bank it instantly..no errors
you pay simply 2 percent..when money goes...TOO EASY*

IM GLAD WE FOUND AGREEMENT.

i would tax non living entities/trusts and money coming from tax havens etc..double..[ie 4 percent]..but thats all we need.

No OUG, the $40 tax would have been taken out as a transaction would have been made to my account. This is because the entire amount was transacted in one transaction.

So I would have received $1960 from my $2000, but paid full tax of 2%.

My remaining $1960 would also attract 2% of each dollar I send.

There is no escaping a TT as you get taxed the 2% on your earnings as it gets deposited into your account.

Although this is double dipping, it only happens once, when you get paid.

Then, as you spend your money you get taxed 2% on each and every transaction you make BUT, if in my case I have $2000 to spend, and, assuming I spend it all in a week, then the max I would pay is $79.20. That's if I send every cent I get paid.

Now, the trick is that I get taxed $2 if I spend $100, but my $100 gets taxed every time it moves from one account to another, which often happens thousands of times a day.

Governments just need the balls to act and put big business in their place. Perhaps Abbott is the one to do it given his hard stance on big business thus far.

Of cause having no money makes life hard for him as well. But that's another story.

WE STILL agree..[in principle..in cause and affect]
the movement needs to be taxed...NOT THE VALUE ADDING.

In response to rehctub - for every dollar people pay towards private health insurance, the Federal Government gives you 30 cents back - that is why its been called the 30% private health insurance rebate.

So it's not cost free to the taxpayer. I used to have private coverage (when I was about 8) and my family dropped out - as it was too expensive.

We need a broader tax base - and people need to be willing to pay more in tax so services can be provided - including public/private hospitals.

NathanJ, my wife and I pay a massive $700 per month/$8400 per year for us, and our 22YO son. None of us have health issues and none of us smoke.

Recently, when our son broke his shoulder, going private (despite having the top hospital cover) was going to cost between $1500 and $2000.

To me, that's a joke!

The problem with all of our services is that there are simply too many with their hands out and, ironically, the only ones who get the FREE EVERYTHING from the system, are those who CONTRIBUTE LITTLE OR NOTHING!

The other problem that has been festering for quit some time is that the hand out brigade are fast catching the contributing brigade, with the result being, insufficient funds to go around. Hence our current problem.

While I am not opposed to genuine il people, who can't afford medical help getting free treatment, I am opposed to those who receive this assistance while participating in forms of self harm, be it illegal drug use, smoking, drinking excessively, even obesity related illnesses to some degree.

As for drugs,namingly overdosing, many druggies being treated have up to ten medical personnel working on them at any one time, meanwhile, genuinely sick people often wait hours in the emergency room seeking treatment, treatment that sadly comes too late for some.

While tax reform is a must in this country, waste reform is just as important, otherwise you run the risk of throwing even more money into a broken model.

rehctub: While I am not opposed to genuine il people, who can't afford medical help getting free treatment, I am opposed to those who receive this assistance while participating in forms of self harm, be it illegal drug use, smoking, drinking excessively, even obesity related illnesses to some degree.

I agree. These types should be made to pay full price for the care they get right through from the police, Ambulance/Emergency Service & Hospital care. No sympathy what-so-ever. I think that would put a stop to a lot of the problem. It's a wonder these people don't sue their supplier. Now that would be interesting. ;-)

rehctub and Jayb - a few years ago before my Grandma died last year, she had to spend three months in a major public hospital - until we could find her a nursing home bed as she could not live at home. We were told she would be able to stay in the hospital as long as needed to - a large cost.

To simply write off problems like youth alcoholism isn't good enough - we have to do something, writing off drink driving isn't acceptable for example (as this can and will injure the innocent) for a long time.

Prevention is better than cure, when you see people in awful situations and this requires educational programs with funds for this to occur.

NathanJ: Prevention is better than cure, when you see people in awful situations and this requires educational programs with funds for this to occur.

I agree Nathan. That's why people who self inflicted harm should have to pay for every bit of Treatment, Care & Services they get. You can't beat that for an educational program. They have had Politically Correct Educational Programs on going for about 40 years & they have not worked. Programs in Schools. Taking Paraplegics into Schools, Learn to Drive Safely, Alcohol/Drug Programs run by the Politically Correct Do Gooders. Not one Program has made one iota of difference.

Hit them in the hip Pocket, that will.

JayB

Prevention is 'still' 100% better than cure. You haven't answered that question.

Too many innocent people are dying, left in a wheelchair, with a permanent illness, loss of family members - I could go on...... and these are the people not found to be doing the wrong thing. Putting in a penalty after that won't help the innocent.

Programs of the past - may not have been good - lets properly research, invest and get some good strategies in - now and this requires well put together thoughts and ideas.

NathanJ: Prevention is 'still' 100% better than cure. You haven't answered that question.

Yes I did & I agree.

NathanJ: Programs of the past - may not have been good - lets properly research, invest and get some good strategies in - now and this requires well put together thoughts and ideas.

Every one of those programs have been researched, they cost millions to implement. They have all been touchy-feely, Politically Correct & espoused by the Do-good crowd. Nothing has worked. & you want to do it all again.

They have been like the Horoscopes. Everybody reads them but five minutes later they couldn't tell you what it was.

That's why people who self inflicted harm should have to pay for every bit of Treatment, Care & Services they get. You can't beat that for an educational program. The hip pocket is the best program, Simple & effective. KISS principle.