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The Forum > General Discussion > Is someone willing to give cigarettes the butt?

Is someone willing to give cigarettes the butt?

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About five years ago, my parents were driving in their car and my father suddenly felt uncomfortable. He went to his local GP clinic straight away and with the doctor, collapsed on the floor. He'd had a heart attack. An ambulance was called.

Both of my parents were smokers since I was born. After the incident - he said to me I wish I'd listened to you earlier. This comes from my childhood. One day about when I was eight - I wore a heart (like I was from the Heart Foundation) and ran outside with my parent's cigarette packet. They ran after me. I threw the cigarette packet onto the roof as I wanted them to give up smoking - right into my adult life.

Currently tobacco kills 5 million people per year worldwide according to the World Health Organisation.

A solution? Have all tobacco products phased out by the time you turn 18 - say in five years time. Existing smokers could continue to use the products.

The other side to this debate however is the Federal Government's addiction to tobacco taxes - read: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-01/government-to-raise-5-billion-from-cigarette-tax-increase/4857244

Then of course there are the multiple government funded anti-tobacco groups - who I'm not impressed with and don't support a ban on smoking, in my view to simply keep themselves going. Certainly no phase out for them - to difficult.

Imagine if my father had the heart attack immediately and died, killing my mother and other road users whilst driving?

All of this, however raises the question for me - do we have a government in Australia that is willing to phase out tobacco products in Australia?
Posted by NathanJ, Saturday, 18 January 2014 10:18:09 PM
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NathanJ, I totally agree with what you are saying.
While I don't think it is a good idea to ban smoking right now, as that would be cruel to all the nicotine addicted people, phasing it out over 5 years is an excellent idea.

That would give all the current smokers plenty of time to give up, and the tobacco driven industries etc time to find other sponsors or products.

However, I have no doubt that all the 'lefties' and 'do-gooders' would be up in arms about smokers 'rights' etc . They will bang on about high-calorie foods and alcohol being next to go. But there are acceptable levels of eating these foods, or drinking alcohol, while NO smoking at all is the only healthy way to go.

Surely the government could raise enough money to cover the losses from tobacco taxes by spending less on smoking-related diseases?

Butt them out people!
Posted by Suseonline, Sunday, 19 January 2014 3:36:57 PM
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I reckon alcohol & other drugs kill more than tobacco ever did.

However I will go along with your ban, but only if alcohol is banned at the same time.

Hell the same people could run both products. Should open a new avenue for people smugglers as Abbott closes that line of business.

I wonder how you'll like the red spittle everywhere, when Ozzies take up chewing betel nut?
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 19 January 2014 5:39:47 PM
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Suse, I could be described as one of those 'lefties', 'do-gooders'. Firstly, to state my position, I am vehemently anti smoking, as the sarcasm that follows will testify to.
There is no relationship between smoking, alcohol consumption and fatty foods, although many people in Australia are consumers of all 3, no doubt to their detriment. Therefore we do not need to discuss smoking in the context of alcohol consumption or fatty food consumption, like stamp collecting and Yak hurding are completely separate issues as are the ones you mention and should not be discussed in the same context. If Sir Francis Drake was an Australian living in the 21at century and not an Englishman living in the 16th century and returned home today with a new product to market, namely spin sticks or coughn' nails. After a simple experiment by the authorities, like making monkeys do the draw back until they croak, that would take 60 a day of the 'Sir Francis Special Filters', the baboons would be cactus inside a week. I'm sure after that experiment the Sir Francis Fags would get the same approval as the 'Exploding Dunny Can', none, to be labeled forever "Not Fit For Human Consumption". My opinion on "Smokers Rights" is that they should be afforded the same rights as those that would peddle plutonium to children, none.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 19 January 2014 6:22:58 PM
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Nathan J,
Yes they could phase out tobacco but only if they let people grow their own, there will always be people who will want to smoke but if they ban the sale of tobacco but decriminalise it's use and possession then the habit will be restricted to a few enthusiasts. Marijuana smoking used to be a niche pastime, it wasn't difficult to find if you had the connections but it wasn't ubiquitous like it is now and before it became big business the product was actually better. When I used to smoke it in the 80's and 90's being stoned was a pleasurable sensation, the last time I smoked it in about 2000 one bong rendered me unable to function for about four hours, couldn't stand up or talk, didn't know where I was etc. If tobacco was organically grown by ordinary people instead of big business and passed around like pot used to be then I'm sure there would be better plant strains and better quality products for the enthusiasts to smoke.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Sunday, 19 January 2014 6:50:07 PM
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Paul , I was being sarcastic when suggesting lefties and 'do gooders' would be upset about banning smoking. It never seems to translate well to online.
Whenever I argued about smoking on this forum before, everyone else ranted about every other 'bad' thing known to man, so I thought I would bring them up first.

I am constantly accused of being one of those terms, even though I'm sure no one really knows what they mean! I sure wouldn't want to be a 'do badder'!

Hasbeen, as I already said. Alcohol is ok in small amounts, so no point banning it, whereas smoking is no good no matter how little you smoke.
Posted by Suseonline, Sunday, 19 January 2014 7:56:08 PM
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How do you ban smoking?

We havenít been able to ban illicit drugs. Far from it.

We canít phase out smoking. Any efforts to do so would just drive it underground. It would still be out there, along with all the other illegal addictive substances. And it would be a huge operation, no matter how much the authorities tried to clamp down on it.

It would turn a very large number of people who are presumably currently law-abiding citizens into law-breakers if they purchased tobacco. It would place them before the courts, impose large fines, perhaps put some in prison, give them criminal records and maybe seriously affect their jobs and careers.

Hey, Iíd love to see tobacco eradicated from our society. But letís look at the practicalities.

It canít be done.
Posted by Ludwig, Sunday, 19 January 2014 8:26:56 PM
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Suse, I did think it was strange, your post, I thought this is not the normal, Suseonline, I must apologize for not realising you were being sarcastic. Yes what or who is the antithesis of the "DOGOODER" must be the "DOBADDER" those who castigate others as being a "Dogooder" must be from the other camp the "Dobadders" or somewhere in between.

"I reckon alcohol & other drugs kill more than tobacco ever did."
"I reckom arsenic $ other poisons kill more than strychnine ever did."
The justification for taking a dose of strychnine.

"However I will go along with your ban, but only if alcohol is banned at the same time."

"I will agree to ban the use of the guillotine, which I oppose, but only if you will agree to the banning of the axe. Until then we'll continue to chop off more heads.

What a nonsensical line of argument Hasbeen.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 19 January 2014 8:55:25 PM
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In this book, I will show that the case against smoking based on bogus statistics and downright lies. I will show that the case for a link between smoking and disease has not been proven and that, indeed, the international statistics suggest that there's no link at all.
http://www.lcolby.com/b-chap1.htm

Furthermore, I will show that the government estimates of "smoking-related deaths" are simply fraudulent and that the recent EPA report, purporting to show a risk to non-smokers from second hand smoke was predicated on manufactured "evidence" which some of the EPA's own scientists found appalling.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=YAldAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=FRAUD+Surgeon+General%E2%80%99s+Report+on+Smoking&source=bl&ots=1jVvxcP0Tf&sig=L5RGZyrEUIFnIQ_zXL4D_jJHnv4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6rfbUoCALciwkgXo-oHQAg&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=FRAUD%20Surgeon%20General%E2%80%99s%20Report%20on%20Smoking&f=false
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 19 January 2014 9:39:00 PM
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I am reminded of a skit I heard on the radio;
Sir Walter Raleigh rings up Sir Francis Drake from America;
Francis, they have this great thing here, you roll up this leaf and put
it in your mouth and then put a match to the end;

Sir Francis, "you do what ?" "You set fire to it !"

And on it goes in that vein. A very funny recording.
I am in favour of an immediate ban.
Actually, it is not so hard to implement.
In a job I was doing I used to go to WD HO Wills plant and each shipment comes in in multiple 40 ft containers.
Bit hard to smuggle them in, and they smell to high heaven.
The leaf is very big and would use up a lot more room in a pot house
judging by what I have seen on police raids on TV.
Anyway they could not smuggle enough in to affect the countries health.

Whenever anything becomes a health risk they rush around the chemists
supermarkets etc etc pulling them all off the shelves.
They do this for things that are a lot less risky than cigarettes.

The tax I read is less than the cost of smoking illness.
So why not ban it ?
We have a fitness conscience PM, so now is the time.
Posted by Bazz, Sunday, 19 January 2014 10:02:29 PM
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THE highest cause of lung cancer is diesel particulate
[wood smoke comes number TWO
theN Asbestosis...[then tobacco]

lest we forget ASBESTOSIS WAS GOING TO BANKRUPT INSURANCE
SO A Convenient scape goat WAS Manufactured[our asbestos didnt kill you/your smoking did[ITS CLever lawyer spin/REDIRECTED THE ASBESTOS/THREAT..TO BIG MONEY.

.http://www.google.com.au/search?q=DIESAL+micro+PARTICULATE..cancer+

BUT HATING..is so profitable for govt revenue raising

also please compare the rates for cancer..of smokers versus non smokers

THE SAME RATE*..ie smoking isnt a factor..BUT I explained these facts and more in so many of these hate smokers and execute them

its estimated that smoking TAKES Six years of our lives
if it was half..i still WOULDNT Give a stuff..go hound boozers..their filling up 75 %..of hospital sevice

pick on drunks if you dare
blame drinking blame TRANSFATS..BLAME THE CHEMICALS THEY put into tobacco..to make it burn[then the other chemicals govt mandated to then add in to not make it burn..

buT WHO DOES ..CARE TO do the research
lawyers and govt and science colluded..to revenue raise
[plus the hippies scarred the straights..into declaring war on smokers

bah..you all make me suffer for yOUR OWN MINDLESS FEAR MONGERING
WHAT ABOUT passive drinking..as you inhale the booze fumes in the pub

how about these yOUNG KIDS..And their ladY ATTRACTANT STINK
..[AND OLD LADIES WITH THEIR perfume stink
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 19 January 2014 10:03:20 PM
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quotes from
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4307&page=0

[quoted from govt speeches]

ALP
Chris Hayes

""Leaving aside the emotional costs..of that toll,

...*the social costs...*
are estimated at $31.5 billion...""
[lost labour/income tax guestimates]
and plenty of other lard/spin

[social costs..
[attributable guesstimates]..not REAL COST]

this new law
raises 5 billion

ALP
Melissa Parke

""has a double purpose:it adds a significant price disincentive to the purchase of tobacco products,and it will generate an additional $5 billion..over four years to be directly invested*..in better health and hospitals""

yet costs
669 million

smoking..""was responsible for 753,618 hospital bed days,
and for $669 million in hospital costs..*.""

the spin dont add up

laurie furgessing[alp]
smoking responsable...for
""...*20 per cent..!
of all cancer-deaths..in general""

Excessive taxes. How much more will they take from you?
http://www.ideservetobeheard.com.au/home.php

The government has already hit you with a 25% tax increase on your cigarettes in April 2010. How much more will they take from you? Itís time to get involved, speak up and say enough is enough.

Did you know?

As of February 2011, about two thirds of the $18.25 recommended retail price for Peter Jackson 30s is government tax.

Less than 1% of tobacco excise taxes is put towards preventative health measures such as anti-smoking campaigns. (Source: National Preventative Health Taskforce, Technical Report 2, 2008)

The recommended retail price of Peter Jackson 30s has increased by 109% since 2000.

The real price of cigarettes has tripled since 1983. (Source: National Preventative Health Taskforce, Technical Report 2, 2008)

Nowís your chance to write to your local MP to say NO to more tobacco tax increases, NO to more bans on smoking outdoors and NO to plain packaging of cigarettes.

Click here to send a letter to your local MP.
http://www.ideservetobeheard.com.au/getInvolved/writeLegislator.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Costs
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 19 January 2014 11:09:07 PM
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.adverse reaction to *prescribed drugs..IS
killing one..in 10 hospitalized for adverse reaction[1/100..hOSPITAL-admissions]

[as well..find-out..about..ttn*..[as..'the numbers needed to treat
number...[where the number..that need to take..a given subsidized medication..to achieve just one cure..that reveals most..of the heavily...lobbied for subsidy[subsidized drugs]
only work..in 1 in one hundred cases]

ie 100...need to take..the drug
for..one cure

anyhow back to
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2F7pmproject.com.au%2F&ei=TC6eTe3uDMODcN-zofEB&usg=AFQjCNGRT5IxM8tSfsbb8nImZQpbzjJa-Q&sig2=VPpKs4hZcVt6sO1ZU5AV7g

.rocks-on..''the medical cost of smoking..[669 million]
and how much the INCREASE was taking in..[6 Billion]..''

and rocks/on replied blah..blah blah
social costs =31 billion

to which the rat faced host replied
oh 31 billion for medical costs

IE HE WAS SPINNING A LIE

CANT YOU LOT
TELL SOMEONE IS SELLING us all..SPIN?

since when is social cost =medical cost?
social cost is AT BEST a guess

just as CAUSE of death..
CANNOT be 'smoking'...

[ie if you die..of cancer..WRITE..cause,,of death=cancer
if you die..of heart atack..WRITE..COD=heart attack]..not 'smoking'

CAUSE of death
cannot be....the ACT..of smoking

yes i know..you hate smoking
BUT.WHY..THE LIES/why the spin?
to get a new tax
and vilify harmless smokers HURTING NO-one

drunks do more damage
auto's do more damage
why is prostitution and gambling just fine and dandy

but smokers are vile and evil
must be taxed into quitting

but lets face facts..many hate smokers
here is a chance to hate others
and to be in the in crowd

its all built..on fear and lies

ya really think they can prove
that little sick girl...was a smoker
or that her sickness WAS..from someone smoking?

ya think that eye/with the hooks
went blind from smoking?..
ya really believe those black toes..is from smoking[not frostbite]

ya really believe that those teeth went crooked and rotted from smoke
or from softdrink or fructose acids...and them TB blisters on their lips..was that smoking related
or to generate fear

why would libs and govt buy shares in something they want to tax
to shut up complaint..have a say on the boardroom..to kill us without ANY representation by govt or 'big tobacco'

please think
is smoke..the worst thing
or just..the easiest to..generate hate or fear.!
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 19 January 2014 11:31:36 PM
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Well come to our author hope you stay around.
You will not know it but we talk about this very often.
No need to ask for a light, some will provide it.
A contributor to these pages, indeed this thread was subject of a bitterness rarely seen,because of her views on smoking.
One Under God stands firmly6 on his view smoking does not kill and all the science is crap.
I think we should tax it our of existence,we currently are trying just that.
In my defense I once was a walking ash tray.
Buying [ordered in advance] on pay day[fortnightly] three packets of pipe tobacco 4 cartons of ten, 25 in each cigarets and 4 packs of roll your own.
My lunch box always had more tobacco than food in it.
Had I not got Q Fever I would have been dead and self embalmed 25 years ago.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 20 January 2014 7:49:05 AM
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One under god, whether you want to continue smoking, with your head firmly placed under the ground, is totally up to you.

I don't need scientists to prove anything about the effects of smoking on people because I could see it for myself, on all the respiratory wards I have worked on.

Do yourself and those around you a favour, and give it up.
Even if you foolishly think they don't hurt you, the stink of a regular smoker should be enough!
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 20 January 2014 8:58:10 AM
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belly
you said last TIME..15,000 deaths
but the lawyers use..the word ATTRIBUTED
ie not/the true-cause of death as such..but deaths ATTRIBUTABLE to smoking..IF..smoking was the sole cause..of dying.

how is it attributable..is..by deeming smoking to cause..SOME/ cancer some..heart-attack..some..emphysema and some..frost bite..IN RATS..MICE..[OR A FAVORED/BECAUSE IT GET.. TUMORS]..Guinea pigs..

once..you can..claim..causation/let the spin begin..SAID..to be caused by smoking..thus any deaths FROM THE SAME
are ATTRIBUTABLE to smoking..

its funny how we swallow the spin
we heard lawyers colluded to hide the facts
BUT ARNT ALLOWED TO SEE THE FACTS..its a clever catch 22

how do we KNOW ..they got the facts?
they could have ..made this whole thing up..!
just to get their mates a nice tax cash cake..

you know most politicization's...ARE or WERE lawyers
over half ya govt members WERE LAWYERS..the self same lawyers that are now DEEMING tobacco to kill..and getting a nice new tax out of us..by guilt UNSUPPORTABLE by the facts

i dont know any sick smokers
how many you know of?

but aint it funny how they go into hospital
and die within days

aint it funy how we get a tax
then get new guilt..from adverts ..WE PAYED for

our tax started IMMEDIATELY
but the miners TAX will never be
whats the difference?

25 million of adverts?

to be continued
there is a lot more ..
im going to be saying on this

those who trust lawyers
put their trust on fools

GIVE US FACTS
give autopsy reports
but we dont do autopsies
they would expose WE BEEN LIED TO

I NEVER SMOKED IN YOUR FACE
i dont complain about your stinking car or your perfume
to callup on smoking in busses is living in the past..get real

as for me not paying my way
i dont visit docters..have paid my medicare levie
have paid my tax on my smokes...
and dont complain about you getting its use..mainly to ridicule me

dont make up numbers
20 percent of all aborigonal deaths is the latest claim
GIVE YOUR PROOF..[as no autopisies are conducted..its a GUESSTIMATE]
based on hate/spin..and to make your point
Posted by one under god, Monday, 20 January 2014 9:12:49 AM
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Belly, I understand your point about wanting to "tax smoking out of existence" but it is not that simple. If cigarettes were $100 a pack it would simply encourage a black market, which does already exist in Australia, with cheap Asian cigarettes being sold under the counter. The laws of supply and demand don't apply to a product like cigarettes, double the price does not see demand halved, it may be reduced but not by anywhere near a half.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 20 January 2014 9:34:15 AM
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surprised that nobody seemed at all sceptical of the figure.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/perspective/4311009/Ministrys-figures-need-analysis
Here's how they derived the figure -number reckoning revealed courtesy of an Official Information Act request and extensive correspondence with the ministry.

After sorting the population by age, gender, income, ethnicity and smoking status, they then compared the costs of providing health services to smokers..as compared to nonsmokers for each group.

The excess costs of the smoking group were tallied up to produce the $1.9b figure.

But there are two very big problems..with this way of estimating costs.

think..of smoking as bringing forward..end-of-life costs.

Smokers die earlier than nonsmokers.
do..We know that.?..for fact/or spin?
http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com.au/search/label/smoking
And the costs to the health budget..of somebody who is dying are rather higher than the costs..of somebody who is healthy.

But everybody dies sometime..and most of us will incur end-of-life costs that will be paid..for by the public health system.

Suppose that a smoker will die..at age 65 and a nonsmoker..will die at 70.[at best..its about..4TO 5 YEARS/DIFFERENCE]..TRY..Comparing 65-year-old smokers to 65-year-old nonsmokers and calling the difference the cost of smoking..then rather biases upwards the measured costs of smoking.[there..is no difference]

We ought to be comparing the health costs of a smoker..dying at age 65 with the health costs..of a nonsmoker dying at age 75.

And, perversely, the deadlier cigarettes are,..the greater will be this bias...The younger smokers are when they die of smoking-related illnesses,..the greater will be the measured cost difference between smokers and non-smokers because a smaller proportion..of comparable nonsmokers would be incurring..end-of-life costs.

The figures assume that in the absence of smoking, smokers would never have imposed end-of-life costs on the health system...But for their smoking, all smokers in this scenario would have died of a sudden,..and cheap,..heart attack and would only have had average health costs up to that point...That's clearly nonsense,..but the $1.9b figure only makes sense if it's true.

note these are..nz numbers
HERE..our real costs..FOR SMOKERS HOSPITALIZATIONS=889..MILLION
even well under the nz boosted....[SOCIAL/COST NUMBERS..its criminal

govts..lIE..FOR MONEY.
lie down with DOGS..YA GET FLEAS/FLEECED..[IN TIME THEY come for your cash.]..

no TAXATION..WITHOUT REPRESENTATION
http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/no-you-cant-tax-your-way-to-happiness.html
Posted by one under god, Monday, 20 January 2014 9:43:31 AM
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So what do you know, we have a couple of drunks on here.

They want to ban tobacco, they obviously don't use it, but not alcohol, which they obviously do,

How bloody lefty can you get. A bit like the Greens wanting to ban a prayer, they don't use it.

Talk about little would be dictators.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 20 January 2014 10:06:30 AM
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do you recall..EVER hearing
we have a cure..for cancer
or a cancer cure..is only..a few years away..etc etc

[they have been..saying it for decades]
thing is curing cancer..has never been closer
think why..[more cash-flow..in suppressing symptom/than a cure]

now..just..as/a cure is more in-sight..than ever
now they CHOSE to ban it..
[or rather chose..to attack it]
or rather..tax it

thing is..ONLY one quarter..of the most..'obvious'
smoking related..cancers..ie lung cancers are smoking related

3/4 ARNT..smoking related
yet all are attributable..as smoking deaths
[ie ITS A LIE}..a profitable taxable lie

see all/the spin
i have..been exposing

why the spin?
to get a new tax
and vilify harmless smokers..HURTING NO-one

drunks do/more damage
auto's do/more damage
why is prostitution..BOOZE.and gambling just fine a..nd dandy

but smokers..are vile and evil
must be taxed/killed..into quitting..govt steals my tax..feeds me some guy coughing up..strawberry jam..pathetic,

his cough..isnt even believable
why arnt our suppliers..taking govt to court for the lies[lib/shareholders?]

we see a cows artery..filled with margarine
or some guy..with tooth problems teeth..mate aint that neat
i got yellow teeth..with smokers breath..but NOThING LIKE THE ADVERT

how many smokers got teeth like that?
any dentist could tell ya it aint smoking what donbe that
those teeth come from too much acid..[ie softdrink or orange juice]
those teeth..are in some kids mouth..!

their mother/father fed them..juice/lollies/softdrink
not tobacco

or how about the guy..with black toes
mate thats some mountain climber..with gangrenous toes

HOW YA THINK SOME JURY..WILL REACT TO THOSE LIES

dont be joking
lawyers wont represent us
because they*.are the PROBLEM

but all it takes is truth to be revealed
we are still one third the population..one of us will be on the jury
or know a smoker and be forced into compulsory tax because of that

BUT ITS ALL BASED ON A LIE/fear/spin..[sin].
tax by guilt

shame blame lies
and ever..more taxes

you talk..about alternatives ..lol
yeah like chewing gum..priced by lawyers?

how hard is it..to take suger..out of gum
and throw in...a few ciggie butts?

then charge us ten times..the price of real/chewing gum?
Why..make it SO EXPENSIVE..CAUSE ITS ADDICTive..and they can..
Posted by one under god, Monday, 20 January 2014 10:09:35 AM
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Hasbeen
Isn't it equally dicatorial to keep the Lord's Prayer and to insist it remain just because a small group want it. Religion is a private matter. It really is that simple. Does it make our politicians more honest?
Posted by pelican, Monday, 20 January 2014 10:12:43 AM
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i dont know.any smoker..in hospital
NAME NAMES..how many you got?..WHAT..PROOF/SMOKING CAUSE?

how about..those abusing sugar..asbestos/micrO-PARTICULATE.
who need medical aid..for diabetes
are..they stealing from you..too?

or those people need..their blood washed
every/day..they stealing from YOU?

are they paying tax..on the cause..of their disease
reviled by all..blamed for everything
advertised..by ridicule..and insult

smokers go to hospital..TO DIE.told you did it t..o you ..GO-AWAY
who else cops that..how many obese..DONT OVEREAT THEIR WAY INTO SICKNESS?

but no we/must protect..the sugar industry
must/not tax lollies..or transfats..or booze..OR LAZYNESS.

mate..if law..really helped
this lie couldnt..have got started

but they been..sheparding..the lie..for revenue..
ASK YOURSELF WHY

think of..the ruling in usa
that forced..the companies to payout
EVEN THAT..WE SMOKERS PAID FOR..PLUS..TAX..ON TOP.

how come other..multinationals appeal
and get off..but was all..that spin ever appealed?

why not?

we pay our way
stop giving..the money to the media/PRESSTITUTES....for adverts that lie

put the tax..WE ARE FORCED TO PAY..into health..for smokers
but no..we get told you stink..go to hell

is govt..allowed to declare war
on its..OWN PEOPLE..via lies?

you swallowed/the coolaid..and we get abuse..and a new tax

IS IT BANNED NOW?
then whats..the problem..if its really bad..ban it
but there..is no proof its bad...so we get sold spin/lies..via adverts

drinkers..are the..real problem

go to..the emergency center
on any friday...or saterday night

you will see..glassing/rapes/bashing's/cuts/BLOOD GUTS
the result..of violence..and drink

we got real-problems...mainly..that lawyers
[processional-liars]..are running..poli-tricks
spinning spin..to get ever more..shame/blaME/guilt taxes..

RECALL..the ozone-hole..will cause global heating
now..the earth is melting..CURE.give us a new tax..
because now .its carbon..not ozone?

cant you see..this spin..for ever/new taxes]..
will be the death..of all of us

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11283&page=0
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3851&page=0
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2696&page=0
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2905&page=0

cant find..that time/the libs..planned a smokers tax
that julia..roxon..hurriedly..adopted
then we got..the adverts

just like..adverts spin
the miners used..to not*..get their tax

then we..get a foolish/nurse..who thinks...she knows iT ALL
SHE THINKS SHE..IS a docter..SHE THINKS..THAT ALL CANCER..IS FROM SMOKING..all evil..from..me.

NEVER Actually studied nuthin/RELated../BUT OPINION..yet.has her high horse..[me]..she loves riding..well be warned..you smoker LOBBIest
*medicine causes..MORE DEATHS..THAN Smoking.

be wary..of who..you LIE.WITH
your ..souls merge/YOU WILL..SPEND ETERNITY..IN THEIR HELL..[FACT..not threat]..[lest we..fORGET].
Posted by one under god, Monday, 20 January 2014 10:35:17 AM
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Some responses have been very well thought through - so thank you to those people. Others however - who seem to be partners with large tobacco companies, in opinion have not. I thought my original introduction, which was based on a true story would have changed these people's minds - when clearly it hasn't.

I now feel the need to say something. There clearly are a range of damages caused by smoking and using tobacco products. Some include:

1. Medical impacts in general. All types of smoking are bad for your health. There are multiple websites to back this up. Visit: http://betobaccofree.hhs.gov/health-effects/smoking-health/

2. Medical problems and children - smoking will affect their future. This can't be good for future generations. Visit: http://www.asthmaaustralia.org.au/smoking.aspx

3. The impacts on running a business and our economy. This is not free. http://www.smh.com.au/national/smokers-cost-employers-3000-a-year-each-20130617-2od7l.html

4. So many people don't see the emotional impacts of smoking related illnesses on the individual, families and friends - particularly when someone dies or is left lying in hospital. Read a persons story and other comments at: http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Lost-My-Father-To-Cancer/62656

There are just so many reasons at the present moment to why cigarette and tobacco products should be phased out in Australia. To those who want smoking kept legal in Australia - realise people like myself, don't want to see you die and we are actually caring about your future.
Posted by NathanJ, Monday, 20 January 2014 10:40:28 AM
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As one of the legion of ex-smokers, I feel very sorry for those who for whatever reason are unable to give it up. But I refuse to join the control-freaks who want to ban it. Freedom to indulge in activities such as smoking, drinking, driving SUVs (and occasionally running over the odd child while backing out of the driveway), is a staple of our civilized society. Selecting one particular "vice" to be banned can only lead to the mindset that says "ban everything we (that is, I) don't like".

This form of totalitarianism suits the outlook of the kind of people who want others to make all their decisions for them, just like mummy and daddy used to. Actually taking exclusive responsibility for their own actions, rather than investing their energies in involving themselves in everyone else's, seems to be an alien concept.

Freedom is a delicate flower. We often don't realize how lucky we are to have it. We should exercise it carefully.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 20 January 2014 10:52:39 AM
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I tend to take Pericles point here although I am pleased that there have been changes to smoking rules in regard to enclosed spaces like restaurants and aeroplanes etc.

The right to smoke stands next to the right of others to say, enjoy a meal without having to tolerate a smoker nearby. Freedom is sometimes a two-edged sword.

I don't buy the costs to the community aspect. If judged on that basis all manner of slightly dangerous pursuits and habits would be banned. Humans are not perfect, they sometimes drink, smoke, over-eat and undertake dangerous sports. That is just part of life and as such there has to be room for that from the idea that communities work for us. It is not always a cost equation.

That said tobacco companies annoy me no end. That they got away with lying to the public for years about health consequences and interfering in the government policies of others..... but I digress
Posted by pelican, Monday, 20 January 2014 11:01:09 AM
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Spot on, pelican.

>>I don't buy the costs to the community aspect. If judged on that basis all manner of slightly dangerous pursuits and habits would be banned.<<

I feel exactly the same way about McDonalds. We read reams of evidence that the kind of food that they serve in their restaurants is damaging to our health. Yet I still believe they have a right to peddle their fat-soaked burgers to willing purchasers...

http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/getnutrition/nutritionfacts.pdf

Tobacco products are labelled, dramatically, with the potential consequences of their use. But we should accept that people will willingly ignore the potential for harm in the same manner as folk will happily lunch on the 77 grams of fat (113% of their RDI) in their Big Mac 'n' fries 'n' shake, in the full and complete knowledge of what they are doing.

Totalitarianism comes in many guises, including in the shape of little, grey people who firmly believe that what they are doing "is for your own good", and expect us to be grateful.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 20 January 2014 11:35:06 AM
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Pericles, your point is fine except that you expect others to pay the
costs of the smokers' medical treatment.
I have seen the treatment that has been going on for years.
He never got lung cancer but his other lung problems make him an invalid.
He cannot even get leaves out of their pool let alone mow the lawn.
Even the three steps at his front door are an obstacle to him.
He stopped smoking years and years ago but too late.
He is 15 years younger than me but looks and moves like he is 20 years older than me.

OUG, well I can even smell it on his emails !
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 20 January 2014 12:42:19 PM
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Welcome to planet bullsh!t...a lot of that getting around now days:)..Its still the same rules.."survival of the fittest"..just because money is the root of all evil, commonsence should be worth to you, a little more.

Its your life...longer or shorter...its your choice.

Planet3
Posted by PLANET3, Monday, 20 January 2014 2:30:55 PM
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Perhaps we should ban driving cars. The costs to the health system are enormous.

Yes I am being sarcastic.

There is a line somewhere between where rights are conferred by society that meet the fairness test. Fair for the individual and fair for others whom may be affected adversely by a particular behaviour, ie. where those rights might impinge on others.

Many will disagree where to place such a line. I prefer to draw it with minimal interference, and only to differentiate where there might be obvious detriments to the freedoms of others.
Posted by pelican, Monday, 20 January 2014 3:51:24 PM
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OUG Face it my friend it is my view that on this subject you are talking rubbish.
It is my right to have that view as you have every right to continue putting the minority one.
No doubt, not a mili gram, exists in my mind smoking kills.
And via our health system unfairly costs the majority.
Not a nanny state thing, but if people continue to smoke, with the evidence we now have make them not us pay for associated health costs
Posted by Belly, Monday, 20 January 2014 5:09:44 PM
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Belly sometimes you do get things very wrong.

Smokers have been paying huge taxes for decades. I remember seeing figures many years & tax increases ago showing 72% of the cost of a cigarette was tax. Smokers have paid so much tax that they can never get it all back with any amount of medical care.

That is fine by me. I have no trouble taxing the hell out of pleasures, including grog, gambling, boating & motoring, we have to get the money people want spent from somewhere, & better to tax these things rather than essentials.

However, I have always been offended in the pity for illegal drug users, & the hate directed at smokers. From what I have seen, nicotine is a harder addiction to kick than most. I know a couple of ex smokers who a decade later are still on nicotine patches or gum. I gather this "treatment" is about as expensive as the smoking, but we offer no help.

With the poor smoker, we tax the hell out of them, denigrate them, then spend their taxes treating illegal drug users, giving them no help. Typical bleeding heart technique

However it is very wrong to tax the hell out of some consumers, then claim they are a liability, I think the fool smokers are suffering enough these days, without being wrongly denigrated as a community expense.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 20 January 2014 6:40:44 PM
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Yep, that's the elephant in the room that no-one really wants to address, Hasbeen.

>>Smokers have paid so much tax that they can never get it all back with any amount of medical care.<<

That blows the "it costs us all" argument completely out of the water.

>>...via our health system unfairly costs the majority.<<

Belly is repeating the mantra of the control freaks, who are offering up a completely spurious argument based on the cost of treating lung cancer sufferers. It is an argument that ignores both the revenue from smokers, and the fact that they generally pop their clogs ahead of the pack, thus lowering the financial burden of end-of-life care. Which, by the way, is huge, and getting bigger by the day.

I think pelican has the answer:

>>Perhaps we should ban driving cars. The costs to the health system are enormous.<<

Pelican is absolutely right, of course. If the objective is to reduce the cost of our health system, this is an excellent place to start.

Unfortunately, s/he is under the impression s/he is being sarcastic.

>>Yes I am being sarcastic.<<

We all know that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. It isn't often, though, that we see it deployed quite so self-destructively.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 20 January 2014 7:07:27 PM
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Self-destructively. It made the point I thought... but each to his/her own method.
Posted by pelican, Monday, 20 January 2014 7:42:26 PM
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Hasbeen,

I wanted my parents to give up smoking. Why? Because I really care for them. I didn't hate them.

It unfortunately took my father to have a heart attack to give up smoking, but I didn't mind - at least he was still alive.

When I see people smoking out in public I feel very sorry for them, knowing they are using a toxic product that is killing their body.
Posted by NathanJ, Monday, 20 January 2014 8:11:06 PM
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<<..When I see people smoking out in public I feel very sorry for them, knowing they are using a toxic product that is killing their body...>>get over yourself.

i see drunks spewing blood guts and i feel ill
BUT I GOT OVER IT.

i see the drunks carryiNG THEIR CARtons..OF BOOZE
AND SEE..MY TAXES PAYING FOR THEIR 'NEW LIVERS'

I HEAR MY MATES..saying im being cared for by THEIR MONEy
as NEAR AS I Can tell..INCLUDING GST STATE ANd federal taxes
COMES TO 16/BILLIon//plus the extra 5 billion=21 billion..JUST ADDING IN THE FEDERAL INCREASES..NOT STATE/GST..

http://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-13-taxation/13-6-revenue-from-tobacco-taxes-in-australia

but the INFO IS KEePS DIVIDED..CAUSE THEY NEED IT LOOK LIKE ONLY 5 BILLION[THE LATest tax hike]

regardless we got a kid scared out of his wits hounding his parents[just like my kids hounded me for years..LIttle realisING THEIR TOOLS FOR GOVT TO REDirect..moneY For the kids into revenue for muggins in govt..to lie.

HEART ATTacks are bought on by stress
so go ride your father..im sick of mindless children telling me what THEY..want me to do..[YOUR MAKING ME ANGRY..THINK..WHY?]..

BELLY STOP DRINKING
it rots ya brain..and im worried about your drinking

BUT I WILL HELP YOU..
BY DOUBLING THE PRICE OF YOUR TIPPLE..BECAUSE YOU DRUNKS..CANT Empathize...BUT I CAN..YOU POOR HELPLESS VICTIM..OF DEMON DRINK

LOL Drunks..ya just gotta love the way they 'care'
..ITS..FOR YOUR OWN GOOD MATE..YOU WONT MISS IT.
Posted by one under god, Monday, 20 January 2014 10:33:12 PM
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cancer deaths is 9000
[one quarter of which is smokers]
2000?..

yET..ONE THIRD OF US SMOKE
the rest [MAJORITY]..are non smokers

so smoking 'prevents many cancers

the numbers cant lie

those one in four
is the same ratio
as the 3/4..who simply CANT Sustain cancer..[ie are resistant].

ie smoking makes no difference..!
[or at woprst reduces cancer

..Forty years ago President Richard Nixon
declared a "war on cancer". [SOUND FAMILIAR?

Yet in spite of $100bn (£60bn) of taxpayer-funded research
in the US alone,..

the cancer mortality rate remains little changed.

Dozens of much-hyped "cures"
developed by drug companies are either useless
or have marginal effect*.

but there is great..$$$
in building buildings

dont forget to note the cancer cures i posted previously
see the ban smoking topic link..previous posts
that cost less than 5 bucks..noted on lasts nights q&a
simon crean...dolling out more cream

to wit
auberry/woodonga getting 65 million for a..
...CANCER CLINIC

seems townsville got one[41 mil]
and we want one too

is anyone seeing a pattern here?
our smoking tax building...BUILDINGS

read on about this global SCAM
realize the why of these wars on smokers

[oh and china has just declared its first shot against
the one third chines that smoke..too]

Cancer: The beat of an ancient drum?
By: malterwitty
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/25/cancer-evolution-ancient-toolkit-genes
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 5:21:12 AM
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uog,
How many road deaths are there, I'm sure the rate is way higher than that of smokers. I have heard of passive smokers but no where near as many deaths from passive smoking than from passive road accidents.
We have way too high a population so why not let the smokers go for it. Same for druggies, they should all be required to have their own health insurances instead of depleteing the health resources of the people with self control.
What about authority induced stress then ? That probably kills even more people than smoking & road deaths put together, where's the outrage there ?
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 5:37:10 AM
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lymphoma has over come breast cancer..as highest cause..of death[as they are both..included..in death by smoking/numb-ers.

cancer is cancer?
[There IS..43 types..of lymphoma cancer]

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunday-night/video/#fop

its called
'the power of love'
currently its on this page
http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunday-night/video/
..the current 'best practice'..that failed..[in the power of love..

[after going the normal route..of radiation
and tcell that often fails..but negass sold as some miracle-cure]
the very next day..in short the other cure..that worked after negass cure failed..and is in danger of being lost in the chatter yet agai

see this..is how big medi-sin works
someone finds a cure..that works/but the media..goes for the propaganda/spin..of the old way

why govts...NEED..give a subsidy..for nicoteen gum..[and patches]
becomes more clear when we notice the inspiration[rational] of the big pharma lobby..for a crackdown on smokers

to get they new subsidy

why?

they are loosing..their old ones
need..more money

FDA Suddenly Bans Drugs
That Have Been On The Market For Decades

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/03/fda-suddenly-bans-drugs-that-have-been.html
..Big Pharma's patents are beginning to expire,..and the drug companies are freaking out.

*For years they have been spending..more money on research..and testing..and getting..fewer results.

This year alone..[2011]..11 patents expired fv on drugs..that bring in approximately..$50 billion in revenue to the big pharma firms.

Of course,..the flip side to this is that consumers can start saving about 95% on.the price of those drugs,..as generics hit the market.

More than 2,000 vaccinated ..babies died:
The cost of doing business

http://www.naturalnews.com/031820_vaccinations_babies.html

*the real news..Is never reported:
more than 2,000 babies died..in the United States after receiving pneumococcal and Hib vaccines..yet authorities refuse to warn parents and halt production.

A safety review is vital....as the..Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), ..ointly operated by the FDA and CDC, has received more than 59,000 reports of adverse reactions to pneumococcal and Hib vaccines during the past several years.

More than half of these cases -30,094- required hospitalization, with 2,169 deaths.

About 95 percent of these deaths were in children under three years of age.

its so easy to change the death numbers
no doudt..*all died by smoking
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 5:59:29 AM
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OUG please explain away this stat from the American Lung Association.

"Smoking, a main cause of small cell and non-small cell lung cancer, contributes to 80 percent and 90 percent of lung cancer deaths in women and men, respectively. Men who smoke are 23 times more likely to develop lung cancer. Women are 13 times more likely, compared to never smokers."
We wont even mention the stats for the myriad of other preventable diseases caused by smoking.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 6:34:59 AM
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INDI..i just get..the run around..[SPUn/numbers]

http://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/safetY/fatal_road_crash_database.aspx
goes to
http://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/index.aspx
sO..I GO TO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_Australia_by_year

''..5.78, or 5.73..''..per 100,000
ONCE YOU TAKE OUT MODIFIERS..LIKE THOSE who died by drive/SMOKING.

The age-standardised*..suicide rate..in 2010
was 10.5 deaths per 100,000 population
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/3309.0~2010~Chapter~Suicide+in+Australia?OpenDocument

22,526 suicide deaths..*registered
in Australia over the 10 years between 2001 and 2010.

ALP
Laurie Ferguson

""The Centers for [USA}..Disease-Control..<<esti*mate>>..that 443,000 people a year die..in the United States..as a result of cigarette smoking.

That is related to an..,,>>*estimate*<<
that eight* million Americans
will die.""

""They note:

More deaths..by tobacco use..than by
all deaths from human..immunodeficiency virus(HIV),
illegal drug use,alcohol use*,[*think about..that one]..motor vehicle injuries,suicides,..and murders combined.""

note what is excluded?

ie..abortions...war..
and..other*..sickness*..

NOTE..{extracted QUOTE
from next speaker}

""Tobacco-related deaths account/for
..*approximately*..''15 per cent...*of all deaths""..!

back to/previous speaker

''This is indeed..a very serious area
of public/policy...[20 BILLION/REVENUE..YES..Of course]

..Our nation has been..at the forefront..in this area""

so serious..THAT..THE*disease control center*
*excludes*...*other diseases..!

""..perfidious industry.""

meaning:..deceitful..and untrustworthy
surely this..is pot/kettle..stuff?

""So there has been...very long-term action*[read preemptioN/SPIN]..
by governments..in this country...

I think Australia..and South-Africa were amongst..the countries that were most draconian..with some of these measures..many decades ago.""

yes ..a selective/LOBBY/hate-base..helps

get racists..to hate..*smokers
and..bobs ya uncle..

""The background..to this..is a COAG agreement""

""..As I said,the health figures..are very persuasive:""

{smoking is.....*attributable..}..

""...*20 per cent..!
of all cancer-deaths..in general""

""tough regulations..have restricted
their*..ability to make money""

and we..dole it out..like candy
to those hating..*smokers

NOTE
re indexing..ANNUAL price increases
above*indexed/inflation

told you..it would catch on

here in qld
PUBLIC transport prices..*HAVE BEEN INDEXED
for the next 3 years..at 15 %..[compounding]

see..i told you...!

the media..serve the interests of state..COMMERCE..WAR..and corporate powers..which are closely interlinked,..framing their reporting and analysis..in a manner supportive of..established privilege..and limiting debate..and discussion accordingly."-- Noam Chomsky

but
back to quotes

ALP
Melissa Parke

""At that time a review.*under the guidance*..of the then parliamentary secretary for health,Trish Worth,seemed to conclude that..no change was required.

I say Ďseemedí..because..no report was prepared""

*to the public..!

""as a result of..the review..and the inquiry submissions..
were not made public.""

feed the sheeple spin
have..meetings in secret

hear the lobby..and make..no PUBLIC CONCLUSIONS
sound familour?
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 6:44:54 AM
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OUG mate please!
You need to focus on you not me.
And by the way last beer single stubby was on new years night, next same, will be Australia Day.
Kidneys mate need looking after, never been a drunk.
You are trying to tell us science is wrong you are right.
I too while in hospital with the then undiagnosed Q Fever heard a room mate all day saying *if only I had given up smoking I would have seen my grand kids grow up*
A week away from finding out what I had I used his words and my illness to give the habit away.
Think as you want but do not put other down for not agreeing.
I remind our author of my warning this thread would get heated enough not to need a light.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 8:48:21 AM
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Belly, G'day old mate. you and I are both at the age now where for many of us "the chickens start to come home to roost" 2013 was a bad year for me health wise, with a heart attack in August, 12 days in hospital and 3 days more in November to have a stint put in. The very first question my doctor asked me in hospital was "Do you smoke?", "No", "Good that puts you in front for starters."
I have lost 2 mates to cancer, one lung and one throat over the past 2 years both heavy smokers.
If you ain't got your health, you've got nothing. SO it GOOD HEALTH to you in 2014.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 9:19:40 AM
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CONTRADICTION..OF/FACT..actualy SAID..IN..PARLEMENT[extensive]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4307#109664

DEAR PAUl..my research..RE/THE..LUNG-ORGANIZATION
indicates..an entrenched LOBBY..[FROm..1913].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Lung_Association

ITS LOGO..IS symbol..for/the.."crusade"..*against tuberculosis.
is..The double barred#cross..that..was..originally/used..in the coat of arms..of Godfrey..of Bouillon,..[Duke of..Lower*Lorraine,..a leader of..the first..crusade]

it.. FUNDING..WAS
$63,288,874..[2012]..[mainly from..'groups]..like../see..nathons poST/monday]

of WHICH..*Public*Health*Education
[Got..45%]..$26,128,524

$9,803,233..WAS SPENT ON LOBBY

""..Research..got..12%..$6,930,326
[MAINLY..*COLLATING..TARGETS*TO Lobby..and..miSS-education/MATERIAL]

""..founded in..1904 to fight/tuberculosis..as the*National Association for..the Study..and..Prevention..of Tuberculosis.

'"The American/Lung Association..is particularly interested..in highly meritorious..[IE..IN..WORTHY..their eyes]..research projects consistent*..with our mission..related Strategic*[sic]..Planning Goals:

*..Eliminate tobacco use..
*..Improve the air..we breathe..
*..Reduce..the burden of lung disease..on patients..and their families..[by SPIN]

''Since 1904,..the American/Lung Association..has
worked..lol..to fight..lung disease..[read tb]..by helping people..*quit smoking,..*funding/research,..improving indoor..and outdoor air quality,..and MISS-educating..millions
about asthma.*..

''Our work is possible..only/through..public donations...[from other lobbies..AND BIG PHARMA..NEEDING..TO SELL..nicotine-gum..franchise.

mate..they*
lobbied you..BUT PLEASE NOTE..*TB IS AGAIN..*ON THE RISE..
[BUT/That lobby..'died'..THUS MORE CASH..IN MISS-Educating..[alienating]..the kids..of smokers?..

ITS..more easy,,to..make money..[to
take]..from smokers..than those..with tb..?

im surprised..at you paul..your usually..so spot-on
[but..peer pressure..works..thats why..PLUS/

half their budget..GOES TO..PROPAGANDA FOr,,our/kids.

[they grow-up..blaming..them..theIR/PARENTS LOWly..SMOKERS.. NOT..THEIR real/POISENers..[big multinationals.]..NWO..

slick/sick/sic*..[..neo-WORLD...orders]

..about..small-CELL..HERE ARE THE CAUSES..
[excluding..smoking]..IE ALL..the..NON SMOKER..CANCERS]..
so much..lobby money..[PLUS/THEY GET A PERCENTAGE Of..the tax take/lol..TAX FREE*]

BUT LETS..TRY..TO RIDE/THROUGH..THE SIN..[SPIN]
that..usually your WELL AWARE OF PAUL...

think..why you missing..it now?

http://www.drugs.com/health-guide/non-small-cell-lung-cancer.html

''Adenocarcinoma...This is the most/common*..type of NSCLC.''...
'' (NSCLC)..equALS..small cell lung cancer...NSCLC..accounts for about 85%..of all lung cancers.''

""Although it..is related''..

[ATTRIBUT*ABLE]..

""to smoking,..it is *..the most
common type..of lung cancer..in nonsmokers.''

GET IT?

''However*,..more..and more..lung cancers
are being diagnosed ..*in people..*who have never*..smoked.''..

..SEE?

yet..just further...''cigarette smokers are..13 times..more
likely*..to develop lung cancer..than nonsmokers.''

UTTER RUBBISH..[85%=NON-smokers..GET IT?]

why?

THEY..TOO..WERE/are..exposed..to..the real causation
[GETTING ALL OF Us/smokers/non smokers alike..SEE THE..[RATIO]

[quote]..[causes]..[ATTRIBUTED
SMOKING EXISED..FOR CLARITY]..

[OTHER Causes]

NON-SMOKERS..too/GOT..exposure..to radon gas...[FOUND IN GRANITE/concrete/even earth]..ALL*..exposed to asbestos.all*..are exposed to other..cancer-causing agents..at work..These include uranium,*..arseni..*,..vinyl chloride,..nickel chromates,..coal/petro products,..mustard gas,..chloromethyl ethers,..gasoline,..thinners /preservatives..perfumes..and diesel exhaust.

PLEASE NOTE..though mentioned last..diesel micro
particulate=THE HIGHEST..REAL CAUSE of cancer..in the lung.[POLLUTION]

tb*..was mainly..'cured'..by smoking..[now smoking
is going down..antibiotic RESISTANT/tb is..on the up.]..lol

TWO MILLION..GOT TB...LAST YEAR..[ITS UP 40%]
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=Tb+increasing

so the lung/ass..has its fallback..money earner..
as drug resistant..TB INCREASES..AND GETS..ALL THEM..[YOU/ALL]..
TRYING TO AVOID KARMA..

[YOU POLLUTED....our wORLD..IT*..HAS ITS KARMA]..
try..and take it..like a man..
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 9:48:18 AM
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I have had 3 acquaintances die of "smoking related cancer", & none of them ever smoked tobacco.

One had cancer of the mouth & two of the throat. Non smokers, but you can bet they are included in the smoking related death figures.

Although non smokers, 2 had spent much of their lives driving around first Sydney, but more Brisbane. Both of them were adamant that it was Brisbane's stinking busses that did them in.

Forget about smoking, what we have to do is stamp out diesel busses, or move those worth saving to the country.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 10:05:23 AM
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My main point was in reference to political parties at either a state, territory or federal level. What would they do to phase out tobacco products in Australia?

The Federal Liberal parties website for example - has details on very separate items like reducing drowning, helping problem gamblers and online safety for children - all important - http://www.liberal.org.au/our-policies - but nothing separate on phasing out smoking.

I've tried a range of other political parties online, via their websites and I can't find anything. It seems to me, its too difficult for political parties to deal with - but I won't be giving up.
Posted by NathanJ, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 11:01:12 AM
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Since the smokers and their supporters can't mount even the most puerile defense of the obnoxious, deadly habit, they resort to condemning other obnoxious thing in society. This condemnation is supposed to be justification for this vile habit of smoking.
Please some smoker tells us about your grandpa who lived to a 103 and smoked 80 a day, or you uncle who smoked 70 a day and got run over by a double decker bus when he was 27.
Or simply lie,why not just refer to the exhaustive research work of Professor Bob Gobble who not only proved smoking isn't harmful, but proved it was positively good for you. All of this will be of great comfort as you gasp for air while suffering the slow death of emphysema, or the agonizing pain of lung cancer.
These are the things the addicted don't like to hear, I'm am not sorry, for being confronting, because the reality is so.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 11:14:07 AM
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I think we understood that, NathanJ.

>>My main point was in reference to political parties at either a state, territory or federal level. What would they do to phase out tobacco products in Australia?<<

But surely you realize that as a policy challenge, "phasing out smoking" differs greatly from the initiatives you discovered on the Liberal Party website.

>>The Federal Liberal parties website for example - has details on very separate items like reducing drowning, helping problem gamblers and online safety for children<<

All very worthy. But note that they do not advocate the phasing out of gambling, merely "help" problem gamblers. There is a parallel in the "help" that the government provides to smokers, through education, health warnings and plain packaging. But no ban, no phasing out.

Unless the government legislates against tobacco products, there are no grounds to "phase it out". And they won't do that, for fear of slapping a totalitarian label on themselves.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 11:49:57 AM
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PAUL/QUOte..<<..I have lost 2 mates to cancer,..[EDIT]..over the past 2 years both heavy smokers.>>

PLUS YOU..have had a heart-attack
seems we all dying..WITHIN TWO YEARS.

anyhow..i noTE..your green..THUS..ITS LIKELY*..YOUR MATES Were tO
so here is my question..DID EITHER OF THEM..PRotESt nukes[or visit 'the outback''or WORK With poisons..

see PAUL..the 60/70..THEY were bombing nukes dust..onto TOOBACCO
ALL THAT STUFF WAS KILLER..dusT..THEN ASBESTOS DUST..THEN BENZINE LIGHTER FLUID[THE SAME STUFF THEY PUT INTO FUEL..AS LEAD Replacement[a known carcinogen]..take out lead..put in a cancer causing MUTAGEN.

OK YOU HAD A HEART ATTACK..
they got cancer..in the END WE ALL DIE.
BUT OUT OF RESPECT..FOT YOUR TWO MATES,PLEASE find out the real cause..of their deaTH

[DID THEY GO VIETNAM?..CLEAN F111 FUEL-TANKS..LIVE IN FIBRO COTTAGE..OR EARTH Houses or bessa block/CONCRETE HOUSES..DID THEY LOVE Vinyl..dID THEY drink..AND smoke..thats the woRST.

but heck two years

<<..one lung and one throat>>..

PLEASE THIS is out of HOW MANY..peers?
was it asbestosis..OR OTHER..too many unknowns..were they autopsied?

of cOURSE NOT/DOCTERS ARE GOD.

oR docters simply wrOTE..'died SMOKING'..
[ITS..symptom..not any..beyond doubt CAUSE...of death]

i respect you paul..PLEASE THINK HARD AND long
what did they really die from?

bad doctors kill hippies/DRUGGIES/SMOKERS..THE OLD FEEble and troublemakers..OF THE 30 DEAD I KNOW..ONly one was cancer[stomach]

id say the heavey drinker got THE THROAT CANCER
AND THE other was radio-active.
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 12:03:59 PM
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Pericles,

State and Federal government policies - they simply don't have anything serious.

This whole matter re phasing out smoking has got nothing to do with slapping a totalitarian label on anyone. It's just simply living on certain things (like the Federal tobacco tax) and lack of leadership.

Adelaide City Council has banned smoking in Rundle Mall. A fantastic policy. Why? There's no money for them to lose and as a result policy independence. Find out more here - http://www.adelaidecitycouncil.com/council/media-centre/media-releases/its-official-rundle-mall-is-now-smoke-free/
Posted by NathanJ, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 12:21:58 PM
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Thanks Paul1405! my recent health history will one day make a good movie in the carry on style, how about that? carry on Belly.
2004 very sick Doc on third visit in a week told me he needed to change my medicines [I was not on any!]I had pneumonia!
2008 told for third time I had cancer, but not known where.
Every test in the world, constant assurances I was not going mad blood tests concerned a list of Doctors but?
Still trying, them not me, kidneys need watching not good at all, anemic but have been for near ten years.
Look the autopsy will find it mate.
A stoic beggar I am OK and quietly amused at the weekly information day at some Doctor or others surgery, I answer questions they have only one answer we will find it!
Sorry old mate OUG you flog a long dead road kill in an effort to get it to its feet.
Have no doubt if I had not stopped smoking it would have killed me long ago.
Living long enough to own my own home and put my jungle/garden in place more than makes up for no longer trying to kill myself smoking.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 2:51:57 PM
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BELLY..you..sir..haVE seen..how the quacks..are incompetent.

IF you reaD my links..you would know hOW..colonscopy is spreading antibiotic resistance bacteria..just by LOOKING..into the pOOP shUTE.

YOU WILL have notED..sorry..could have..noted much
instead..you jump on me..and encourage others to jump on mE..even..[ban me etc]..JUST for telling..SORRY..trying to reveal home-truths..

like go figure..the lobby..gets..thEIr SAY
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2542367/The-sugar-tsars-bed-confectionery-giants-Five-members-committee-tasked-battling-obesity-epidemic-worryingly-close-ties.html

PEOPLE LIKE..THE LUNG/mob..get ontO..THE job..of doing/their job

your..AN outside guy..while you/were getting skin cancer/risk..on the road..i was inside..the power plant..in the asbestos dust/MIXED With coal dust..driving diesal forklifts..in tiny/storage sheds..for day on end/Rotating stock...AND FLESHING..HIDES.

mate its almost..liKE you forget..the workers being slow killed..by their jobs..sure there are telecom..PITS..made from..ASBESTOS+..they are now refusing to..put kruds nbn into..but When..the telicom workers were..putting them in..no one cared..about it..*then

then*..the UNIONS TRUSTED..the boss..[do it or LEAVE]

you forget..the diggerS..cleaning out..the f-111 tanks..WHO GOT SICK AND DIED..you forget..EVERY bad chemical..was handled/repeatedly by 'a worker'

thing is..in a just world..they could sue..someone
but..in this world..they say..you did it/by smoking

mate..think of the tar/fumes..you breathed in..think OF THE/DUST..you breathed in..think of..your dirty work Grimed hands..putting in pesticide..AS THE Dust/poison..WENT ONTO..your sanger/*SMOKO

THING IS..Mate..read the..'other'..causes..and SEE..HOW MANY/OF those you handled..but..NO/..ITS easier to say..its smoking..[THAT way/you cant sue..and they can..tax you..instead of you/getting your DUE*]

its..a waste/of TIME..even trying to explain..[to you]..WHY YOU BEen tricked..let alone how..thing is belly..you were/chosen..especially because..you were..SO SMART..we/THEY..like clever peoPLE..LIKE YOU..

WE love.how you are..so loyal/trusting..they PREY..ON YOU..FAITH.[LOYALISTS]..dont over-think.

mate..it..Is possible..you been tricked
just so..we cant sue the boss...just so we..cant sue..'tHEM'...you so rabidly/FAITHFULLY/Consistently..defend..

[its sad pauL..HASNT..replied..hE too..COULD simply/reveal names/details..and places..his mates were slow killed..by..just because..THEY protested..in the WRONG/pLACE

mate..ya heard of..cancer clusters..AT ABC ETC
well thats..how it is..our workplaces..can/do..kill us
then THEY GET..A SCAPE GOAT..and say..'you caused it..to yourself'.

its futile to..try to explain..the facts..to those..SELECTIVITY-ignorant..OF THE TOPIC..you smoked..MOST OF YOUR LIFE..[ONE SMOKE CAN..KILL?][bulldust].

you worked with..many POISONS..from ddt..to asbestos..and
yOU DIDNT GET..LUNG CANCER..[THINK why]
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 22 January 2014 6:45:07 AM
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Calm down mate, drop the caps please, do you know I question my own far less frequent, use of caps to highlight?
I am not and never will try to get others to dump on you.
Or am I trying to get you banned OUG I see how important this site is to you, and understand it is just as needed by many here .
I consider you a mate.
But a mate who truly values his mate MUST BE THE ONE TO TELL HIM/HER
You are doing your self no favors with abuse [computer wide it is named that] of caps.
Mate I understand your defense of smoking, it is your right to think as you wish.
Just as it is mine to say rubbish my friend.
My posts got better, maybe not good enough, when I started to spend more time editing them that writing them, keep well mate.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 22 January 2014 5:40:48 PM
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According to environmental clean-up reports, cigarette butts are the Number 1 littered item on U.S. roadways and the Number 1 item found on beaches and waterways worldwide. Yuk.

There was a lot of cleaning up of cigarette butts after New Years Eve.

The environmental damages of this are very serious - let along the toxic impacts on people!
Posted by NathanJ, Thursday, 6 February 2014 3:29:53 PM
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nathan//>>..The environmental damages of this are very serious - let along the toxic impacts on people!>>

yes i stood upon a cigarette butt once
it near blew off half my foot

my boot was so smelly..i had to burn it
i once received a ciggie burn so bad doctors had to cut off my fun arm...dont forget the lighter flash burns,,3 rd degree it can BLIND YOU...avert ya eyes there goes another one/

incomming incomming..warning warning
look out will robinson

i blame the air pollution ..of my burning shoe on smokers
i would much rather stand on dog poop..now that sure smells better than dirty butt stink.

OR i love walking on them free needles govt gives to them druggie users that buy that from cia [aphgan drug supply/inc]

mate i could clean up every butt..in FEW SECONDS
just offer 5 cents each for them..[that would only add two buck of the 30 dollar extra per pack..we pay now
and shut up igno*rants as well

if nicotine is so 'deadly..why..IS govt subsidizing the addictive stuff in chewing gum?..[so chemists can clean up on the ciggie cash flow?]

do you know how much wild fish die from the chemicals in our urine
boy fish become girls

mate you got any idea how poisonous the runoff
off a road puts into the ocean[you know the asbestos dust from brakes..the oil leaking from the car..the burnt lead free..but carcinogenic/fuel..the diesel micro particulate..the battery acid

yep ban cars they are killing the wildlife too
plus you iner city muggins..even the farmers sitting in their sheds

man butt out
stop drinking it rots ya brain[why do drunks get so holier than thou?
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 6 February 2014 6:31:32 PM
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IF NOTHING ELSE..YOU RABID ANTI-smoking smackers

THINK*..they hate me..so they tax me,,more
why do you defend hese same EQUAL/opportunistic haters taxing you/

,,SEE WAGE..<<taxes are by far the most horrible of the taxes
as they punish you..for producing and creating wealth...After all, if the purported reasons..for sin taxes such as alcohol and cigarette taxes is to de-incentivize people..from drinking and smoking, what do you think an income tax does?" -- Robert Taylor >>

they tax your wages for revenue
THEY TAX OUR SMOKING FOR REVENUE

SAME SAME
get it?

[if you dont get it..wait till they need the next tax..look fair]
THE CURRENT THING IS TAX YOU SO YOU USE LESS..[so DOUBLING THE PRICE YOU PAY SOME QUASI GOVT..agency..is clearly revenue raising.

taxing income=revenue raising
taxing your wages=revenue raising..levies fines service fees is revenue raising..Smokers drinkers is revenue raising/but better we pay..that you..eh?

AT LEAST HER HONEST ABOUT THAT
so they saY SEE THE CIGGIE BUTts..[I SAY SEE THEY DONT GO INTO THE WATER WAY..because their there]..and eveN IF THEY DID..its much like a leaf..containing nicotine..[it wont kILL THE FISH..ITS ADDICTIVE]

think of the poisonous flora..LEAVES..falling iNTO THE WATERS
OR THE PORK INDUSTRY OR POLTRY INDUSTRY OR AGRICULTURE POISONING..CIGGIE BUTTS ANd smokers isny the real issue

ITS TAXING THOSE YOU HASTE
BY WHAT RIGHT HAS GOVT DECLARED WAR ON SMOKERS
iTS UNLAWFUL..EVEN TREASON..ITS A TAX..AND I SAY BY WHAT RIGHT

ghandi is famous for saying no tax on salt
am,erica..said no tax on tea..now they put the tax burden..on me

your pathetic..[no tax withoutr representation]

docters are killing you
your love of western life style is killing you
heck think smokers are falling yet cancer rate has doubled

smokers and non smokers get the same cancers at the samE RATE
ie smoking wasnt the causE..ONLY 'ATTRIBUTED'..

ie BY LIE/Ridicule/threat intimidation/loathing

QUE WARRENTO
by what right?
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 6:44:09 AM
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and sO came the weak-end*

no PROOFS..of concept..for evolution..presented
no alternate..SCIENCE 'BEGUN'..[RE 'SCIEnces/theories..as opposed to bible..STORIES..

I TAKE tales in writing..AS HARD FAST
CLAIM..[UNREFUTED]..OVER THOSE WITH FAITH..IN SCIence

On THIS WEAK END...so let the dawning of logic weakly end.

AHHH MEN..SO..SURE..of..'the science'..BY FAITH..alone
i laugh at science..as presented by the aloof
in lue of PRESENTed proof.
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 16 February 2014 1:06:36 PM
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DEAD END?
THE JOKE/BUTT END*

*HOT TIP..BUTT OUT*
ALL TAX IS..FOR THE SAME REASON..AS THE TAX ON SMOKES

SO WHY GOVT..TAXING YOUR WAGE/SPENDING..SAME SAME.

PLEASE LEARN TO THINK..ITS ABOUT TAXing smokers WAGE EARNERS SPENDERS out of existance

same

same same
shame SHAME SHAME
LAME LAME LAME
NAME NAMES WHO Gains who explains

ALL TAXES ARE AVERSION TAXES/tax is a designed Burden..from the money CHANGERS..LENDING AT INTEREST Credit..to govt..TO BREAK US/ALL
STEAL/LOOT PLUNDER REAP THE COMMON WEALTH[OUR WORK EFFORTS]

THINK OF YOUR OWN AVERSION TAX Burden
what next a bedroom tax>?..MORALITYTAX[TOO LATE WEALLREADY GOT EM]

tax is tax
regardless of who is paying it

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6259&page=0
Posted by one under god, Monday, 24 February 2014 10:56:06 AM
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i hate tHROW Awly..
AY LINES BUT JUST HEARD ,ON MEDIA
DIABESTUS = ONE MILLION AUSTRALIANS
and two million AT RISK..[POTENTIALLY 3 MILLION IN 10 YEARS]

CURRENT..1 million]..costs 14 BILLION..per year
so in ten years that could be 42 billion/..just for diabetics
[LITTLE WONDER THEY WANT/NEED 6 DOLLARS PER Docter visit[while hounding us smokers you set uP A PANDEMIC..ELSEWHERE..AS YOU GOT GREEDY/REVENUE RAISING OFF FALLING NUMBERS..OF SMOKERS.

i guess thats karma..for lying re 'social costs'..of smoking
[AS OPPOSED To smokers TOTAL /MEDICAL COSTS ACTUALLY costing 800 million]
Posted by one under god, Monday, 24 February 2014 7:03:18 PM
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