Maybe they should combine and form the Green Tea party.

"TONY Abbott and Joe Hockey have flipped the politics of debt as they frame Labor MPs as extremist "Tea Party" zealots, prepared to gridlock the economy US-style and shut down the government."

With all the fearful symmetry of the fiscal cliff in the US and the spectre of shutting government services, it is now Labor who are the Tea Party economic vandals and I wonder if they are "so heroic to go down the path of starting to close down government services".

What a load of poppycock from Eleventy Joe and Dodgy Tones.

First Hockey acknowledges that we're in good shape and that the AAA credit rating is what matters.

Then he gives the RBA nearly $9 billion that it didn't request and doesn't need.

Then in order to pay back debt he maxes out the credit card to way over requirements.

Then he tries to pull a stunt based on the US GOP's economy-damaging behaviour.

Good one, Sloppy Joe - where did you get your Treasurer credentials - a Cornflake pack?

Here's a Tea Partier who just got the boot in Virginia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mr-cuccinelli-has-himself-to-blame-for-loss/2013/11/07/d8b8cc54-47da-11e3-bf0c-cebf37c6f484_story.html

Let's have a look at his traits and see who he more closely resembles:

"It was mainly about bashing homosexuals, harassing illegal immigrants, crusading against abortion, denying climate change, flirting with birthers and opposing gun control. A hero to the tea party and a culture warrior of the first rank, Mr. Cuccinelli lost because he was among the most polarizing and provocative figures in Richmond for a decade. That made him the wrong candidate for Virginia."

Again:

"It was mainly about bashing homosexuals, harassing illegal immigrants, crusading against abortion, denying climate change..."

Sounds far more like the LNP to me, SM

Cheers.

Yes, I think SM is really grasping at straws now, trying to rev up his beloved Libs.
They won the election SM, isn't that enough?

Saying that Labor are more like the mad 'Tea Party' crowd than the holier than thou Liberal party is like saying the mad monk is actually a closet atheist !

Look again at Poirot's credible list of Tony's well known beliefs SM.
It's like reading the sacred vows of the Tea Party nutters....

Well before the election, the issue was raised of the closeness of the debt ceiling, but Labor lacked the backbone to raise the ceiling then. Now with Labor's spending programs likely to cause the gross debt to reach the $300bn ceiling by early December, and the ceiling recommended by Treasury of $500bn rejected by the Green Tea party (labor greens alliance), there is a strong likelihood that a partial shut down will have to be implemented.

I see a few scenarios:

A) The coalition backs down and accepts the green tea parties $400bn or more likely,

B) The debt ceiling is reached and Joe Hockey is forced to immediately cut government spending to a deficit neutral position. Being a cynic, I see the targeted cuts being most of Labor's pet projects and hand outs that would require months of fighting in parliament to reverse.

The cherry on top is that Green Tea Party would get the blame.

Why do we feed this gentleman, years of observation shows he is intent on ignoring the truth.
Find me a single word he used to tell of problems in his party.
Show me a day he did not insult/miss quote Labor.
And here in this thread he try,s to put a case other than the truth, Labor has offered Abbott the cash he needs, just tell us why it is needed.
Here too on open display *is the lie many of them,used to gain government*
Constantly demanding Labor stop things this grubby mob of frauds now claim as their own!
Shadow Minister! Sir! at last I understand your sign in name.
You are a man of no substance, *a shadow of a man*

SM, why wont you be honest on this. Labor for all their faults, and they were many, left government with the Australian economy in very good shape. The continual rhetoric from the Coalition about how they have to clean up the economic mess left behind by Labor just does not ring true. None of these rating agencies are going say "You are an economic basket case but we give you a AAA rating." if they did that, then they would have no credibility.
Do you need reminding Labor are not in government. In opposition the Coalition was thumping its chest about how on winning government it would be such a responsible manager of the public purse etc, cutting Labor waste, sacking public servants, cutting taxes, loading up middle class welfare, looking after big business, most likely committing to a war or two, just joking on that one, Tories would never do that. This must have been such sweet music to your conservative ears. Unfortunate, in government, the reality is now setting in for this shonky bunch of Tories as they realise they can't deliver all that they had promised to the faithful without creating an economic nightmare, and plunging Australia into some economic cellar with a ZZZ rating. The simple answer is for a responsible parliament to say no to any $500b and tell the shonks to dig themselves out of their own economic hole or hand the reigns of government back, to those who can.
Belly, before the election I said to you many times I wanted Abbott in government, it would be the "best" thing that could happen for our side of politics, at the moment I fell all warm and fuzz as I watch these clunkers trying to run the country, they are not letting me down.

Gee the desperation is thick here.

I suppose our lefties have to kid themselves, or spend all day crying.

Tony & company are already gaining fans among the fair minded at a rapid rate, & our lefties have to pretend even to themselves, or spend all day, every day crying. The tissue manufacturers however, are laughing all the way to the bank.

Get used to it kids, you've got a minimum of 9 years to go.

Hasbeen, a week is a long time in politics, 9 years that's an eternity, do you have a crystal ball or did you get it from reading the bumps on SM's head? As I said I'm happy to have these clunkers running the country. Been running the show for a couple of months now and already things are starting to fall apart, give them time, but 9 more years, no way! When Judge Paul1405 sentenced Australia on this, I gave them 6 years of Abbott, with a non parole of 3. Only a sadist would inflict Abbott on anyone for 9 years. Don't forget not only do you get Abbott you also get a whole basket case of clunkers, they'll all contribute to the disaster.

Yar, hasbeen,

I have to agree with Paul.

Tony Abbott and his regime can only ever be a shot in the arm for left politics.

They are so transparently inept and "shonky" that it's a real education watching them roll out their spin.

I like the latest.

Amidst other Commonwealth leaders either boycotting or criticising Sri Lanka's human rights abuses, Mr Abbott says "oh well, difficult things happen - would you like some boats?"

Apologist much!

Perhaps he can invite a delegation of Sri Lankans over to Australia's "detention camps" and show 'em how its really done?

(Psst...I don't reckon Tones will last the distance himself with the LNP hierarchy. He can't even hold a press conference without having to read his lines or be fed through that elaborate earpiece he constantly wears...and even then his mouth goes into automatic:)

He's a dangerous joke.

here we go again..myth-making
give a.dog..the bad name..and all..of a sudden..
we got terrorist gun nutters..red neck dollar-bills..in opposition

but thats just poli-tricks one oh one

also..im noting dollar/bills..copying
the methodology..of phony tonies question time rave
[and thats fine too..but belly..iknow your out-there..

can you tell d-bill..that his rave..IS MUCH MORE AFFECTIVE
at the start of question..time..then..the loaded..questions..to drive..the point..home ..[and when..they..the,..close down question time..go out and tell the questions..direct to the hard press]

you cant simply do the same bill..your no tony
his advisers advice wont work for you..so..i suggest the new way..that may..work..for you

but your media shy..you come across
..like nixon..or that warming rebutting lord..you must look to the camera'..its about eye contact..mate..plus you..need warm colors..[avoid them..fleuro=vests old mate..that will only look-like mutton..dressed as lamb..and yes regarding hard-hats..avoid that..too

ps watch out for..the dollar signs
and people in the background..holding up..their bills

Paul, Belly and Suse,

Here's a story of some putrid LNP machinations.

http://m.smh.com.au/federal-politics/society-and-culture/nasty-saga-you-nearly-missed-20091025-hem5.html

ijust noted that in Parliament..from..the back..
you look like..your wearing..and off the rack..suit
[i..instantly saw you..like keating..or..rather the keating antithesis]

so even...keating's tailor made suits..will only look worse
its going to be interesting..who..gets to teach..you how to wear a proper suit coat..of the proper shade..over-alls..bib and brace..of union blue shirt..[think blue collar]

anyhow i..wonder who..will first
get the..honorarium label ..of best..[worst dressed]..'dag'

ps..the topic is greens/labor right
and how libs are going to..[PLANING]..to..spend up..BIG
[up to 30%..abouve budgeted spending]..jobs for the boys..for big toys

ans other ploys..that deflates the buying worth of many
so the dollar value of exporter's [few]..look..better on..the bottom-line..for a few looters/exploiters..ex-porteres..loving the easy..return..of a lower dollar bill.

giving 9billion..TO the fed

manages the means to the fed
to flood the market..[via fractional reserve leveraging]
to the tune..of 90..to 250,,BILLION..just toget the parity of dollars..to where we loose our buying powewre..but the exporters get tocollect even more dollars for stuff they contracted..in us dollars

howard used to keep the dollar down
by bying say 10 billion..in broken planes..but he got something..for selling out the rest of us

hockey..just gave it away..in cvash
but..by[money he just borrowed..from*..the same bank]
because as cash..[income/credit]..it can be leveraged..into massive gift [bailout...of the yank/bank]

no doubt..he was told..in the briefing
or by his misses..in..bed..but either way..its not our debt..[those 9 billion..he simply gave away..direct to the worlds broken banks

but he also wopuld knowe..the next bailout..will..need
nearer..to 100 billion from us tomorow..sdo hesets up today..PRAYING he dont need extend it again..before the next election

AND ITS ALL LAPDOG bills fault
[lapdog..because he is only..the front-man..for the backroom suits

you can see the strings..he isnt..his own.boss
but neither any of the rest of the crims doing collective treason..in.of govt.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You mentioned two possibilities - I see more: one is to just continue acquiring debt regardless without passing a law. I don't think the AFP is going to arrest anyone for insisting on paying their salaries.

The best outcome of course, is to close down immediately a large number of government departments and never open them again, also selling their office-buildings to cover the existing debt.

Aren't they ashamed to be in debt?

Just like any of us should do when we don't have money, the government should give an example and sell their parliament house, conducting their meetings in some local community hall, using folding chairs if they can afford, or otherwise sitting on the floor.

Why doesn't labor just deny everything.

Haha...threads going well so far, you reckon, SM?

Dear Shadow Minister,

It's a bit of a stretch even for you to claim
that Labor and the Greens copy the
American Tea Party. It will never happen in this
country - we are not America - (despite what John
Howard and his ilk may want us to believe). And
our Political Parties, especially Labor and the Greens
will never hold our Government to ransom, as the Tea
Party did in the US. Labor has made that quite clear
all that is being asked of the government is that they
produce the paperwork as to why they need to raise the
debt ceiling. Which is fair enough. Joe Hockey has the
paperwork - and all that is being asked that he give
Parliament the reasons for what the government wants
done. However with the current avoidance of answering
questions by the government and all the secrecy involved
it looks like its far easier to be creative and blame
the US "Tea Party," rather than come up with the paperwork
in Parliament which is all that's being asked.

I'm simply surprised that you Sir, are buying into this
crap. And you supposedly an inteliigent man and a self-
professed professional and "thinker." How about thinking for
yourself for a change - instead of repeating the Party mantra?
You remain wedded to the carefully rehearsed, simplistic
rhetoric - which Mr Abbott and his colleagues repeat
ad infinitum. Don't insult our intelligence.

Oh gee SM, I sure hope Tony doesn't last 3 years, let alone 9!

According to my lifelong Liberal supporter, Catholic, middle-class wise old Mum, it is good for all 'us' middle class and big business people to have the Liberals back in power.

But...Tony is proving to be the bumbling, embarrassing orator that I always predicted, and having him at the helm for longer than 3 years would be excruciating!
Bring back Malcolm!

Suse,

Our very good friends are Catholic, life long Liberal supporters who voted for and support LNP.

They toddle off to church every week and bring me extracts about human rights abuses, etc.

I asked one of them the other day about something pertaining to human rights and this govt.

He answered that he didn't really care what was going on because all he was interested in was in the "other mob" being voted out.

Go figure?

This fascist outfit is giving Liberal politics in this country a bad name...IMO

Dear Poirot and Suse,

Why can't Mr Abbott take the lead from the UK's
conservative Prime Minister, Mr Cameron ,and his
stance on human rights that he expressed so
forcefully in Sri Lanka? It's surprising that a
Catholic PM like Mr Abbott cannot find the nouse
to take a stronger moral stand on this issue and show
the world what he stands for.

Foxy,

Few governments would ever be so overbearing, crass and stupid to follow Cameron's diplomatic gaffe, arguing with the host country, intruding into its domestic politics, encouraging sensationist media publicity and embarrassing the country internationally, and getting everyone so far off-side as to result in intransigence and defiance. He conveniently ignored too the history of the conflict and the aims of the Tamil Tigers.

Cameron set out deliberately to embarrass and cause the host country to lose face.

That is the very behaviour that is criticised by Asian countries.

However there is also a lot of conjecture as to whether the one-sided allegations he is giving oxygen to are correct. All he has done is grandstand, making a diplomatic mess. See here,

<Pro-government commentators have pointed to alleged abuses under British colonial rule to suggest Britain has no moral right to criticise Sri Lanka.

And Mr Rajapaksa made an oblique reference to Bloody Sunday, when 13 civilians were shot dead in Northern Ireland by the British army in 1972.

He said some investigations took 40 years to emerge, referring to an inquiry into the shootings which reported in 2010 and laid responsibility for the events on the army.

Mr Rajapaksa also accused his critics of ignoring deaths during the period of the civil war.

"Every day for the last 30 years people were dying... so we have stopped it," he said.
..
Mr Rajapaksa has said the end of the war has brought peace, stability and the chance of greater prosperity to Sri Lanka.
..
Sri Lankan cricketer Muttiah Muralitharan, who said the PM had been misled about the situation in the country
..
On Saturday, the UK leader met Sri Lankan cricketer Muttiah Muralitharan, a Tamil who works for reconciliation in his country.
..
Murali told journalists: "He must have been misled by other people. People speak without going and seeing the things there. I go on and off. I see from my eyes there is improvement>
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24970403

otb,

What a shocking post from you.

I am gobsmacked.

Our Prime Minister did not show leadership in his
toady behaviour in Sri Lanka. He did not prevent the
atrocious authoritarian regime there from presenting
an air-brushed image to the world.

The film, "No Fire-Zone: The Killing Fields of Sri Lanka"
provides a harrowing account underlying the need for an
International inquiry and for the International Community
to stand up for the people of Sri Lanka.

Amnesty International, and the UN High Commissioner of Human
Rights have visited the country and have given detailed
accounts of what's going on there. Nothing has improved.
Enforced disappearances are continuing, as
are - extrajudicial killings, torture, and violations of the
rights to freedom of expression, association and peaceful
assembly. As well as intimidation of and reprisals against
human rights defenders, members of civil society and
journalists, threats to the rule of law and discrimination on
the basis of religion or belief.

Women and girls are sexually abused, including by the police
and military. People disappear overnight. And the list goes
on.

Mr Cameron deserves our applause not our criticism.
And you Sir, well I'm too polite to state what you
deserve on this forum. Except to say, I now understand why
God invented the middle finger.

Never mind, Foxy.

otb has just inserted his "faux outrage" chip.

Now he can obfuscate by citing historical abuses - and excuse Tones being an apologist for Sri Lanka's questionable human rights record.

Foxy,

No surprise at all that you are 'gobsmacked'. As a serial protester that would often be the case. It is no surprise either that Cameron's public grandstanding, which he later appeared to soften, appeals to you.

The diplomats will be obliged to pick up the pieces. Australia has had to the same after egocentric Kevin Rudd involved Indonesia in domestic politics in his vain attempt to score political points in an election.

The UK election is still some way off. Maybe Cameron is getting in early.

Foxy I believe Abbott has a problem with communication on any level.

If he had weighed into the debate about Sri Lanka's dodgy human rights issues, he would have caused much more trouble than the diplomatic and well spoken PM of England!

Cameron has managed to become the CHOGM headline. He put his day job as a politician ahead of international diplomacy and ahead of the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting.

The Left would be rejoicing in the disruption of CHOGM. However in a world that needs more diplomacy rather than less, it is a very sad business that sees Secretary General Kamalesh Sharma defending CHOGM and trying to promote discussion of CHOGM's outcomes.

<"The Commonwealth is distinguished by the fact that it's a very issues based organisation," Mr Sharma said.

"As far as the outcomes are concerned, you will find at the end of this CHOGM, that it has been very productive, and it has been very meaningful and successful."

Discussions at the summit, including on debt relief for small member countries and financing projects to battle climate change, have been overshadowed by the row over Sri Lanka's alleged rights abuses.

However, Mr Sharma said the level of discussion at the biennial summit in Colombo was in no way lower than in previous years.

"They (delegations) all come with the equal willingness and enthusiasm to contribute to the causes that have brought them here," he said.

"They are countries from all parts of the world, they've got national issues on their mind...they've collective global issues on their mind.">
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-17/an-david-cameron-puts-sri-lanka-on-notice-over-war-crime-allega/5097278

Cameron was about Cameron. Politicians are like that. If he had wanted to achieve real results the diplomatic way was clear and very open to him. Now there is a mess of his making for others to clean up. Just like Kevin Rudd who cynically pushed domestic politics into Australian relations with Indonesia and we are still paying the price.

Foxy,

<< Nothing has improved.>>

NOTHING?

Come now Foxy I think you are doing a bit of David Cameroning (aka exaggerating) there! The UN has been overseeing the return of Tamils from India.

At best Cameron's little outburst might be viewed as grandstanding ...he wouldn't have an election coming up soon, would he?

What is said by *SOME* Tamils (and lots of illegal immigrationists) about Sri Lanka could be said about 3/4 of the commonwealth countries by their own minorities. And you might recall that Amnesty International has made some very uninformed comments on Australian Aboriginal affairs in the recent past.

Tony Abbot ought to be commended for not clinging on the coat tails of the UK

Despite being ousted by the repressive Sri Lankan regime NSW Green Senator Lee Rhiannon found serious ongoing abuses of human and legal rights in Sri Lanka. Abuses Tony Abbott is not interested in hearing about, but then again Abbott himself supports human rights abuse of asylum seekers.

“The Australian Senate has now passed a Greens motion calling on the Prime Minister to act while he is at CHOGM and raise the issue of an independent investigation into allegations of violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law with the President of Sri Lanka."

http://lee-rhiannon.greensmps.org.au/content/media-releases/australian-senate-calls-pm-abbott-raise-sri-lanka%E2%80%99s-human-rights-abuses-chogm

Its good to see we have at least one Senator from NSW who is prepared to fight for human rights in Sri Lanka, well done Lee.

Dear SPQR,

My next door neighbours are from Sri Lanka
and they've recently returned from Columbo
visiting their family. We've heard first hand
accounts of the supposed "improvements"
in the country. So what I've been stating comes
straight from people who know what they're talking
about. Perhaps you need to see the film that I
mentioned in my earlier post. Still, to each his
own. Stalin also gave Bertrand Russell a tour of
Russia (VIP treatment of course) and Mr Russell
wrote an extremely glowing report on his return.
I dare say Mr Abbott, et al, are receiving the
same sort of VIP treatment from the Sri Lankan
government.

Dear Poirot and Suse,

I am embarrassed by our PM.
I thought that he's now been given a chance
to shine - but goodness me, the man has no light
whatsoever and simply makes one cringe every time
he opens his mouth. It's so rehearsed and simplistic.
An insult to our (and everyone else's) intelligence.
He's even given boats to Sri Lanka that will now be used
by their government to persecute and catch people attempting
to flee. He's actually helping the government do their
evil work. Nice.

Let's face it guys...

Tony Abbott is in no position to criticise Sri lanka for its human rights abuses....while he's busy running little gulags of his own.

Yes Foxy, you may be embarrassed, but as the election showed, most Ozzies don't agree with you. I have just heard some of the green harpies on the news. You would have to be embarrassed to admit you were a green.

Not quite as embarrassed as you would have to admit Cameron was your prime minister. Cameron is almost on a par with Rudd & at least as bad as Gillard.

The poor buggers in the UK don't don't even have a Tony Abbott to rescue them from Cameron's stupidity, although I must admit our Abbott is looking a bit soft around the edges.

I reckon we will see a huge swing to the UK Independence Party, at their next election. Their Labour party have proven every bit as bad for the general public as ours, & Cameron is a total twit.

You have to feel sorry for the poor old UK. Not only do they have the parasitic UN trying to suck them dry, they have the EU as well.

Hasbeen,

Nice dreaming.

Cameron will be out on his pink ear thanks to Labour next election.

Mainly for his Torie cruelty, tight-arsedness and economic stupidity - and targeting those least able in the community.

Will enjoy that muchly.

I thought Australia's overseas embarrassment stopped after we booted out Johnny in his green and yellow tracky dacks, and the hat with the corks hanging off it. It was bad enough that Howard insisted that foreign digs call him 'Bluey' and every second word was a line from a Barry McKenzie movie. Struth, stone the crows! It could not get worse, then along come Tone... in his "budgie sumgglers", it got worse, Tone opened his gob.... and struth he spoke! Stone the crows. how embarrassment.

Dear Hasbeen,

You should be more concerned about our current
PM and his government's survival.
They've only been in government for such a short
time - and people are starting to realise just how
regressive they all really are.

As I stated earlier - so embarrassing.
Just look at the record thus far.

the tea party is given a great diservice by being compared with Gillard, Rudd and the Greens. No one could possibly be that bad.

Get your facts straight.

Cory Bernardi spent a lot of time in the US researching Tea Party tactics on behalf of the then-Opposition.

As a result several astro-turf groups suddenly appeared along with their right-wing media backers to mount public demonstrations.

Contrived government public scandals were then filling the newspaper pages and little attention was paid to Opposition policy for the last 3 years.

If anybody is worthy of comparative Tea-Party status it is the Liberal Party.

How about a few polls? After a few years of constant polling I have only seen one since just after the election and that showed a swing back to the ALP.
Abbott is already an international embarrassment.

Dear runner,

It depends on one's
interpretation based on personal values,
one's background, training, education and
experiences. We all view things subjectively
and we're all guilty of some measure of bias
which becomes particularly acute when the subject
matter involves issues of deep human and moral
concern.

I see this thread instead of inspiring the left whingers to some form of introspection has set them all off baying at the moon again. Hoping that their feeble attempt to throw mud at Abbott will eventually lead to some of it sticking. Well guys, it hasn't worked for the last 4 years, so what on earth makes you think it will for the next 10?

My comparison of the Labor Green alliance is more than just a dig at the left whingers, it is a serious comparison. Coming from the center right I have no love for extreme politics on either end of the spectrum, and what I see of the center right core of the republicans and its ideological far right Tea party, I see mirrored in the Labor green alliance.

The Tea party is focused on ideology and using whatever means to implement policies that reflect its ideology. It is not interested in compromise, and it has a strong grip on the whole Republican party. This is a mirror image of the Greens and its influence on the Labor party.

In the political game of thrones, the party that captures the center either by convincing the majority of its policies, or by fashioning its policies to meet the mood of the voters. Abandoning the wishes of the majority because it is incompatible with ideology is to condemn ones party to the political wilderness. This is happening with the Republicans, who having lost power, are trying to pursue their agenda by being obstructionist. The analogue with the Labor Greens (Green Tea party) with the choice to fight the abolition of the carbon tax and debt ceiling by obstructionism, here is uncanny.

The claim by Labor to be following its mandate by the 40% of those that voted for it and the carbon tax, whilst abandoning the 60% that didn't, is a gift that will bless Abbott with a decade in power.

I only return to answer that rant from SM.
We, all those not being Liberal voters, are branded leftist, not just by the unhappy Shadow Minister, but by many.
This thread could be one produced by that mad Doctor of spin Gobbles, he twisted the truth *no more* than this thread attempts.
See*TEA PARTY* best describes about half of this governments members, Nationals being the biggest but not only part.
If we are wise we will see such statements in all walks of life.
Selling us a product by using its fault as a good thing about it!
We are confronted with a government that told us so many outright lies to get elected and continues to regard the truth as optional.
Shadow Minister is no role model.
He is blind to travel rort,s blind to Abbott crawling at the meeting and too blind to the actions of England,s PM a true Tory yet a man who occupies the ground Liberals should.
Remember as the Liberals shifted to the right Labor took that ground, so SM is calling his party,s past lefty,s.

SM, In the history of modern politics in Australia we have had only one truly obstructionist opposition. Do I need to remind you that opposition was a conservative one, lead by Malcolm Fraser which conspired with Catholic extremists from the DLP, along with others, including a drunken sulk in the form of John Kerr, representing the Queen of England, to ultimately dismiss an democratically elected government. It is the conservatives who have established the ground rules in this country for the destruction of democratic governments, not the left.
I believe the voters gave Abbott a clear mandate to wreck the country and he should be given a free hand to get on with the job. As for you being seen as "center right" its a matter of perspective on issues. I'm sure on some issues you could be seen as radical on others conservative it fairly meaningless to apply an overall generic term like "center right".
You said "This is a mirror image of the Greens and its influence on the Labor party." You over estimate the influence The Greens had on the past Labor Government, it was not a matter of The Greens beating Labor into submission on issue after issue but rather cooperating with Labor to implement Labor's legislative agenda. What I understand of the Tea Party in the US is it a controlling internal part of the Republican Party, a lot different to how I would describe The Greens and the Labor Party's relationship.

SM,

Just a reminder of Tea Party qualities:

""It was mainly about bashing homosexuals, harassing illegal immigrants, crusading against abortion, denying climate change..."

That, my dear, describes the Abbott govt to a tee.

.......

Just on another matter....

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/a-craven-tony-abbotts-refusal-to-discuss-human-rights-in-sri-lanka-cheapened-the-commonwealth-20131118-2xpmh.html

"Tony Abbott came to Sri Lanka to praise President Mahinda Rajapakse, not to bury him under the weight of human rights abuse allegations that completely dominated this Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting.

"We are here to praise as much as judge," he told the forum's opening meeting, lauding the ending of Sri Lanka's civil war, and the development in the country since."

"Mr Abbott came to CHOGM, a multi-lateral meeting of 53 member nations, with an entirely domestic agenda. He needed Sri Lankan support to combat people smuggling, and so was unwilling to criticise his hosts.

While human rights concerns – forced abductions, torture, and extrajudicial killings by state forces, land seizures by the military, and oppression of political opponents – dominated every public CHOGM event, Abbott sidestepped these at every turn.

"We accept that sometimes in difficult circumstances, difficult things happen," he said of torture allegations, instead focusing on the progress that had been made, and on Australia's co-operation at sea.

But Abbott's refusal to even countenance Sri Lanka's ongoing human rights issues, in contradiction to the position of the UN and his own foreign affairs department, was craven and irresponsible.

To put a minor, questionable political point above an issue as fundamental as human rights diminished Australia and cheapened the Commonwealth."

Of course it's what we're coming to expect from this dodgy outfit - so no surprises really.

Poirot, Don't you know our Tone is an expert on world politics and its leaders. Just the other day he said how much he is looking forward to his first visit to the United States to meet President Roosevelt. Our Tone has also promised the President of the Congo a brand new Battleship for their navy, Tone's very big on boats.

Paul,

You might be interested in this:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/18/refugees-and-human-rights-abuses-we-cant-pretend-that-we-do-not-know

"Arendt provides a useful framework to think about Tony Abbott’s extraordinary statement in Sri Lanka: his comment that, though his government "deplores the use of torture we accept that sometimes in difficult circumstances difficult things happen".

On one level, the Abbott "torture happens" line might be understood as old-fashioned realpolitik. Because Australia wants to repatriate Sri Lankan asylum seekers, Abbott needs to paint the authoritarian regime there as evolving to democracy (despite Amnesty International’s assessment that "the government is slowly but surely dismantling institutions, including the judiciary, that protect human rights".) Because Abbott seeks co-operation against people smugglers, he’s willing to provide warships to one of the most bloodsoaked militaries in the world."

Paul 1405 spoke of embarasment stopping after Howard? What about Juliar Oi am the Proime Minister Gillard and the absolute end KRudd? Gee mate you must be on a different planet.

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for the link.

The more I read about Mr Abbott's actions the more
depressed I get.

Thanks Poirot, very good link. I am old enough to have had a father who was a grown man in the 1930's and he told me there was a lot of admiration for Hitler in Australia, The New Guard (Australian Fascists) were well supported by the conservatives in society. 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies the founder of the Liberal Party spent 2 weeks in Nazi Germany in 1938
Menzies wrote home, “Nevertheless, it must be said that this modern abandonment by the Germans of individual liberty and of the easy and pleasant things of life has something rather magnificent about it." Menzies was an ardent admirer of totalitarian regimes in both Germany and Japan in the 1930's. Howard named Menzies as the one he most admired, and we know Abbott is an admirer of Howard.

Mrs Howard (JBowyer) glad you could pop in, between garden parties, and leave a comment. Nice to hear from you.

Foxy, do not be depressed by what one can expect from Abbott.

Paul 1405 - I say again, Tony Abbott won the election. Tony Abbott is now Prime Minister. Dry your eyes Princess and suck it up ha ha ha!

P & P,

"That, my dear, describes the Abbott govt to a tee."

Yup, and Electricity Bill is a serial rapist, Albo a pedophile, Juliar a common thief, and Milne a porn star.

Instead of posting lies about Abbott, and giggling like school girls, perhaps you could address why the Labor Greens alliance (the Green Tea party) is copying the Tea party play book.

At least Abbott is meeting his principle promises and stopping the flow of economic refugees. While Labor was so fond of trashing foreign relationships by indulging in stupid megaphone diplomacy to appeal to the domestic audience, Abbott has adopted the rational approach of constructive engagement.

If anyone knows where megaphone diplomacy has ever worked, I would be grateful if they could give an example.

At least now we have got rid of the back stabbing comedy duo of Juliar and Dudd, perhaps the rest of the world will take us seriously. Indonesia certainly has, and so too will Sri Lanka.

SM,

You're an apologist for the Abbott govt.

Abbott is an apologist for Rajapaksa's regime.

And now an abetter, it seems.

Simple really......

https://newmatilda.com/2013/11/18/cover-could-have-changed-chogm

"The Prime Minister's silence on human rights abuses in Sri Lanka was inexcusable complicity, but this is nothing less than collaboration and it is abhorrent," Greens leader Christine Milne said....."

She's right.

Abbotts type of governance has got to be causing talk behind the scenes.

Come on now Shadow Minister, you listen to Poirot, she knows everything.

I'm sure she remembers when those nice Tamils had a plan to bomb the Oz cricket team. Nothing personal of course, they only wanted the publicity.

I'm sure she remembers when they were No2 bombers on the world, much more competent than the IRA, & more prolific.

Of course you realise we need this type of immigrant. How the hell else are we to gain full bombing competence, if we don't have these able teachers here to train us.

So you wake up to yourself, & get on the "bad Abbott" bandwagon, or we might be denied a new influx of these lovely people.

Dear Poirot,

There are people who are known as "stealthies"
according to a recent article in the Sydney Morning Herald.
They're people who obviously place a low priority on
transparency and accountability of government.

We're told that, "Mr Abbott, whose attack-dog politics
created the perfect chaotic conditions for government by stealth
to flourish - now presents himself as Mr Stealthy."

"If he can keep the government process operating silently
he knows he will retain support from the stealthy...
He needs to keep politics off the front page and the TV news
which is where 3 in 4 Australians get their main political
information... He needs new Speaker Bronwyn Bishop to keep a
lid on Question Time to avoid disturbing the peace..."

Have a read of the link. It's very interesting and
explains the new government's behaviour and that of Mr Abbott:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/hate-politics-its-just-tony-abbott-operating-by-stealth-20131112-2xefr.html

cont'd ...

oops typing error. I should have stated that Mr
Abbott now tries to present himself as "Mr Stability."

Thanks, Foxy.

"There are clear similarities between the stealthy and the so-called ''Howard battlers'' who seem to have morphed into Abbott's ''anyone but Labor'' rump who just want politicians to shut up and get on with it. Certainly it helps explain why most people voted for Abbott on September 7..."

I've mentioned elsewhere our good friends who are staunch Liberal voters. When asked about something pertaining to this govt, our friend said that he wasn't interested in what Abbott was doing - just that the other mob had been voted out.

Seems to fit the above description perfectly.

J Bower did you reach deep down in your understanding for those two sneering posts?
Or is it more likely that is your best?
Lets not trouble our selves the truth is like its favorite party the American Republicans, notably Tea Party section of that mob.
Republicans and soon Liberals must confront the truth policy's of the extreme right cost votes and seats.

Belly your temper tantrum is understandable but you will just have to calm down, abide by our democratic institutions and just seethe, preferably in silence.

P, et al,

I must be a stealthie, I prefer a government that gets to work to meet its commitments. The opposite of stealthie would be a whiny, who prefers a government of talking heads that promise everything and delivered nothing like their promises.

I see that the whinys can't bring them selves to address the Tea Party tactics of their talking heads.

Dear Poirot,

I found the Sydney Morning Herald article spot on
as well. And of course it now becomes crystal
clear the reasons why people like Shadow Minister
are so supportive of Mr Abbott and his team.
Even his moniker makes sense - the key lies in
the word "Shadow," both for a suporter and the
phantom government (government by stealth) that he supports.

Foxy,

People like SM would support their favoured dimwits no matter how low they sunk.

Have you ever heard SM criticise the LNP..at all..anytime?

Also watch him parrot almost verbatim what silly Tones and his band of sewn-lipped cronies yabber about the Tea Party.

It's a line - nothing more...and not even a believable one!

That's the extent of the SM's of this world.

(They're boring too:)

Foxy my sweet, I'm sorry, [well I'm not really] to shatter your illusions, but I just heard on no lesser authority than the ABC, that in the only poll they have our illustrious PM, Tony Abbott has increased his approval rating, & the coalition vote, since the election.

Even despite what our failing education system, Ozzies are not so dumb after all.

Aint it grand!

Foxy,

http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/how-to-trash-australias-international-standing-in-three-easy-steps,5902

"The Coalition’s blunderbuss approach to governing the nation and diplomacy has delivered a triple whammy to Australia’s international reputation."

"Their focus in opposition on being masters of spin led to seriously superficial policies. This was certain to find them out of their depth in government. As a result, they have gone from being masters of spin to masters of mismanagement.

The Coalition’s blundering has delivered a triple whammy to Australia’s international reputation. The three major casualties are:

Our regional relationships which were characterised by international co-operation and engagement.
Our world standing as a multicultural nation which is opposed to discrimination.
As a leading achiever in science and an advocate for taking effective action against dangerous global warming."

(Never mind, SM, I know you're allergic to thought provoking and competent analysis - you can go away and read some Murdoch garbage while we're discussing this:)

"Blunderbuss"...magnificently describes the LNP's modus operandi.

Some of our long haired radical ratbags have referenced some utter garbage, but that bit of bull droppings Poirot just posted is about the worst bit of garbage, ever to hit the net.

Do they really think adults will fall for such tripe?

Wow SM, I'm staggered by today's revelation.
SM said; "While Labor was so fond of trashing foreign relationships by indulging in stupid megaphone diplomacy to appeal to the domestic audience, Abbott has adopted the rational approach of constructive engagement." and " I (SM) prefer a government that gets to work to meet its commitments."
Shadow Minister, Does the rational approach of constructive engagement include tapping the mobile phone of the Indonesian President!
ROFLMAO.

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for the link.

It simply confirms what other journalists are finding
and telling us. We certainly won't hear much in
Question Time - where everything is on such a tight leash,
including the new Speaker. Who has declared earlier
that she was going to be unbiased. Ha!
Anyhow - we can always rely on other sources to inform
and -
Once this government will be held up to scrutiny -
all voters may begin to realise just how much has been hidden
from them.

Dear Hasbeen,

Better to be long-haired than short-brained.

Indonesia have recalled their ambassador from Canberra, Wow SM, got to give it to your man Tony Boloney when it comes to international diplomacy, he's the bomb! You got to hand it to your man Tone. I think I prefer Howie in his tracky dacks to this galah. What do you think?
ROFLMAOASTC!

Dear Foxy,

>>Stalin also gave Bertrand Russell a tour of Russia (VIP treatment of course) and Mr Russell wrote an extremely glowing report on his return.<<

Are you sure you are not confusing Bertrand Russell with George Bernard Shaw?

Wikipedia:

In August 1920 Russell travelled to Russia as part of an official delegation sent by the British government to investigate the effects of the Russian Revolution.[43] … In his autobiography, he mentions that he found Lenin rather disappointing, sensing an "impish cruelty" in him and comparing him to "an opinionated professor". “

and

“After visiting the USSR in 1931 and meeting Joseph Stalin, Shaw became a supporter of the Stalinist USSR. … Shaw continued this support for Stalin's system … writing:

But the most elaborate code of this sort would still have left unspecified a hundred ways in which wreckers of Communism could have sidetracked it without ever having to face the essential questions: are you pulling your weight in the social boat? …That is why the Russians were forced to set up an Inquisition …to … "liquidate" persons who could not answer them satisfactorily.”

On the ABC news tonight the presenter said that the ABC asked the US
person Snowden in Moscow what info he had on Australia's intelligence
operation against Indonesia.
The ABC obtained this information and publicised it in the news.

For doing this the ABC should have its transmitter licences cancelled.
To release that information was a really stupid thing to do.
I would suspect that it was a political act for no other reason than
to make things difficult for the government, and before the bleeding
hearts get up in arms, remember this is Australia that has been betrayed.
Also it is Tony Abbott that is being blamed but it was going on for
years while Rudd & Gillard were running the government so why doesn't
the media blame them ? Could it be their politics ?

Oh well, Bazz, you win some you loose some.

The Abbott govt has been keen to take credit for Labor's Manus solution of "slowing the boats" (although we don't know how many have actually come)....

So, with that in mind, I see no reason why they wouldn't be happy to take responsibility for this latest debacle with Indonesia.

It's all part of the job of govt - especially when Tones has reassured everyone that Australia only uses it's intelligence for "good".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-18/indonesia-angered-by-revelations-australia-spied-on-sby/5100264

""All governments gather information and all governments know that every other government gathers information," he told Parliament."

""I should also say that the Australian Government uses all the resources at its disposal, including information to help our friends and our allies, not to harm them."

Anyhooo....It's going to take some diplomatic skill to dig out of this one.

.............

Hasbeen,

Thanks for the confirmation that I'm on the right track.

Anything you might condemn is obviously the right stuff!

P&P,

The phone tapping and spying about which you are crowing occurred under Labor.

Once again the coalition is left to clean up Labor's mess.

Our relations with China under KRudd and Juliar suffered more than in any other period other than war time.

Dudd's PNG solution was a good idea, however, in the two months before the election Labor actually sent almost no one off shore. The 25% drop in illegal entries was unsustainable.

Since the coalition has taken a firm approach in sending everyone immediately off shore, returning "rescued" illegals to Indonesia, and with Indonesia's and Sri Lanka's help, stopping them at the source, the numbers have dropped by nearly 90%. Labor's pathetic attempt to claim that this was entirely due to the PNG solution is completely unsubstantiated.

SM, is this the way your man Tone deals with our friends, do you think he's got a tap on North Korea's Kim Jong. I think he would be up to no good.
One things for sure, the one phony who hasn't been tapped is Tony! No use, he talks some kind of indecipherable code only understood by fellow clunkers in the Liberal Party.
It must be serious, Bozo wants the ABC antenna ripped down.

Abbott and his mouth are causing international turmoil.

Here we go.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-18/hetherington-the-coalitions-big-lie/5098544

Nicely unwraps the Coalition's deception on the state of the economy.

"The Coalition's characterisation of Labor's economic management as "reckless" and "wasteful" is a big lie that is going to be hard to revise, writes David Hetherington.

One day, they'll write textbook case studies about it. Political genius, they'll say - a master class in strategy, messaging and discipline. It worked a treat and delivered government to the Coalition.

I write, of course, of the Big Lie - the myth created and propagated by the Coalition that the Australian economy is in the mire as a result of what Joe Hockey calls "Labor's economic and fiscal mismanagement"

The Big Lie was a cornerstone of the Coalition's political strategy over the last three years.

At every turn, Coalition MPs railed against Labor's "reckless", "scandalous" and "wasteful" handling of the economy

The choristers within News Corp Australia played their part to perfection, with a daily drumbeat of opinion pieces echoing profound concern.

That the Big Lie ran counter to all economic fact mattered not a bit. Its communication was so successful that many in the electorate came to believe it.

However, the sting may be in the tail. For the government, the challenge of the Big Lie is dealing with its legacy.

Having won government, the Coalition finds the economy is - surprise - in the same good shape it was before. Low unemployment, low inflation, steady growth, a triple-A rating.

As this reality sits uncomfortably with the Big Lie, the Coalition must navigate a delicate political shift and manage the inflated expectations of its supporters."

The problem is that now we're stuck with an incompetent team of fairy story tellers and we know we can hardly believe a word that passes their lips..and that's when they deign to tell us something.

This lot of shonky operators actually makes me yearn for the days of Howard....not nearly as fascist!

You lot just do not get it! Labour took Australia from savings to debt. Wasted on things that the teachers union liked but the thinking adults did not!
The rest of the world never even give Australia a glance and who cares anyway. Last night there was the edifying site of an Iraki murderer planning a people smuggling operation from an Indonesian jail. What a joke! We just have to pander to the Indonesians but if the chips were down we would flog them in any conflict.
We all know that but we also know it is more sensible to be more diplomatic and always avoid conflict. I could not care less about Indonesian pollies upset when they are facing an election. Again "sorry" but not really!

Our prime minister is a prime galoot. Shouldn't be allowed to say anything. How long is this going to go on. Turnbull should never have been butchered.

Quite so, 579.

Mr Abbott is about as diplomatic as a banana.

He is our leader - although some of us realise that being a national leader requires more than the ability to mouth slogans ad nauseam - it also entails dealing with sensitive issues not necessarily related to one's incoming govt.

Take this view from the Indonesian President, for instance:

"President Yudhoyono said he deplored the statement of the Australian prime minister, which had underestimated the severity of the wiretapping of Indonesia and suggested Mr Abbott not been sufficiently contrite."

http://www.afr.com/p/national/sby_attacks_abbott_over_spying_response_XBROlQaP3nxv5IOpsrAmxH

Mr Abbott is a political buffoon which, unfortunately, makes it near impossible for him to deal with issues like this well.

He's more disposed to making things worse...especially if he attempts to feed Indonesia BS like he does with the Australian people.

Once again the coalition has to clean up the mess left by the Green Tea party.

Fortunately even the Indonesians recognise that this stuff up, like many left by Dudd, Juliar and Milne, but expect the adults to sort it out.

Noticably Carr let the cat out of the bag about the relations with Sri Lanka that the labor Whingers have been going on about, indicating that Labor was intending to do exactly the same.

Dear George,

My apologies, I was very tired yesterday.
Of course it was Bernard Shaw and not Bertrand
Russell who went to extra-ordinary lengths
and told the West that, "I did not see a single-under-
nourished person in Russia, young or old..."
Bernard Shaw had also felt able to say, - or was at
any rate so quoted in the Soviet press at the time -
that "in the USSR, unlike Britain, there was freedom of
religion."

This is all confirmed in Rober Conquest's book,
"The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the
Terror-Famine." A mind-blowing book that I can highly
recommend. It throws a flood of light on one of the
darkest events in modern history. It affected me greatly.

Pull the other one, SM.

Australia has a dud PM who needs to look up the words "diplomacy" and "contrite" in his dictionary.

Here's a translation of SBY's tweet this morning:

"I regret the Australian PM statement belittling the phone-tapping in Indonesia without feeling guilty."

It's Abbott's response that has upset him - more than the fact that spying occurs.

You don't get it do you?

Obama was contrite to Merkel when similar information came out.

Obama is a diplomat.

Abbott is a sloganeering fool.

@Poirot,

If there is one people who needs a good dose of "contrite" Poirot it's you --your posts are overflowing with bile.

Thanks, SPQR, on behalf of fellow OLOer's for your daily critique of Poirot's style and content...I don't suppose you have an opinion on the subject(s) at hand?

Too much to ask?

............

And talking of "bile" - I'd could be here everyday for the next six months with unlimited posts, and still not catch up to the "bile" distributed here over the years by SM and his cohorts.

And he's still at it with this thread parroting his master's garbage re: Tea Party.

Here's another take on Abbott's dearth of diplomacy:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/spying-scandal-sby-takes-to-twitter-to-hit-out-at-tony-abbott-20131119-2xs1o.html

Here's a bit on the shenanigans going on around Christmas Island:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/bow-ripped-off-asylum-boat-as-customs-attempted-to-tow-it-20131119-2xsan.html

The bottom line is I recent having a dunderhead as leader of this country.

It's one thing to have him elevated through nefarious means to the top job - entirely another to witness him clattering his way around on diplomatic matters.

He's an embarrassment of the highest order.

Well the Indon President can start with a few apologies for Indonesian boats with Indonesian crews loaded with illegals landing on Australia. How about those apples?
Diplomacy? Do not make me laugh I can't wait for the first one to pull the racist card, in fact I thought it would have been out by now.
Speak softly and quietly and ask "How much does Indonesia give Australia"? Followed by "How much does Australia give Indonesia"? Then everyone have a big think.

I saw an article by Graham Young today.

http://networkedblogs.com/RekdM

"Part of the secret of Tony Abbott’s success is that Labor and Greens underestimate him. The torrent of accusations that he is too dumb to be PM that has followed his election on Twitter and social media generally is proof of this.

Another part of his success is that Labor also underestimates, or just plain misunderstands, average Australians, and in this category I include what used to be their core vote – working class Australians.

You get no better example of this than the last week or federal parliament.

If there is one issue that Labor should steer clear of it is asylum seekers.

Sure, the government will make mistakes, but there is no gain, and plenty of pain, for the opposition in trying to exploit them, because every time they raise the issue of the boats all most Australians will recall is that they were the ones that created the problem in the first place.

Anyone who was paying attention knows that the Abbott government never promised to buy Indonesian fishing boats, or even turn boats back, except in certain circumstances. They also know that the promise on boats was to stop them coming, and that policies, and the policy mix, will change over time.

Average Australians don’t care how the government gets there (within the law), as long as they get there."

THIS makes me really happy. The left whingers and the twitterati can continue to ridicule Abbott, just as the Tea party were ridiculing Obama. The reality is that just about everyone does not care what they think or say.

A disaster at every breath. I would not be surprised if Indonesia cut all ties and trade with AU. Abbott will deliver us into disrepair.

579 Please refer to my post about who gives what to who.
I was going to say then have a think but on second thoughts. We do not care if you lick windows or bark at cars. You hang in there Sunshine.

JBower sorry, long ago saw you as not much more than a troll.
And believe me not angry enjoying your treading on your bottom lip, harsh mode of travel but amusing.

SM,

Quoting GY:

""Part of the secret of Tony Abbott’s success is that Labor and Greens underestimate him. The torrent of accusations that he is too dumb to be PM that has followed his election on Twitter and social media generally is proof of this."

"Another part of his success is that Labor also underestimates, or just plain misunderstands, average Australians, and in this category I include what used to be their core vote – working class Australians."

Yes...one underestimates the average Australian's gullibility, if that's what you mean.

Some of us never underestimated Abbott's unsuitability for the top job.

Some of us realised that he doesn't possess the substance and breadth of character required for success in that role.

Never has - never will.

Just a reminder, SM, that your attempts to link Labor with Tea Party politics ring extremely hollow.

Here are Tea Party qualities:

"".....mainly about bashing homosexuals, harassing illegal immigrants, crusading against abortion, denying climate change..."

An exact match to the LNP in Australia.

Dear Poirot,

You Go Girl!

Nothing like facts to interfere with their rhetoric!
Impressive!

"""
Here are Tea Party qualities:

"".....mainly about bashing homosexuals, harassing illegal immigrants, crusading against abortion, denying climate change..."
"""

These Tea Party types sound just like salt of the earth Aussies to me, must be a nice bunch of folk? And considering the intake of middle eastern types you lot seem to ardor. I find it amusing that you would bash Tea party types for their beliefs as your new found best mates share a common theme. That's what my new middle eastern neighbours tell me, anyway.

Must be a tough pill to swallow knowing you just made yourself an even smaller minority!

Personally I just don't see the attraction to any government, a bunch of thugs operating through violent coercion and theft. Whatever rocks your boat I suppose. But shouldn't you just let your beloved democracy run its course and accept you're on the side that lost and STFU before you make yourself look even sillier?

This Bower bloke is something else, or is it SM in disguise. Who could love such a peanut as our prime minister. We will slip beyond redemption in no time flat.
Big Joe needs to chose his words in a better manner also.
Payne is close to a break down, in more ways than one.

<<Dear Poirot ...You Go Girl!>>

Watch your back Poirot. The last person Foxy said "You go girl" to was Julia Gillard ...and we all know what happened to her ... that shortman bloke got her good and proper!

here are the regressives qualities

"".....mainly about promoting homosexualality, inviting illegal immigrants, killing the unboorn for convenience, sticking to failed gw mantras and lets not forget emily's list doctrines of emasculating men.

thankfully the majority spoke last September. Get over it.

Dear SPQR,

I've never had the privilege
of meeting our former Prime Minister. And contrary
to what you claim the former PM resigned
for the good of her Party once she realised she
no longer had the Party's support. She left with
her dignity in tact and was clearly loved by many
people in this country as the attendance at her
appearances at both the Sydney Opera House
and the Melbourne Town Hall illustrated.

But do keep having a crack.

Foxy,

<<the former PM resigned for the good of her Party>>.
Then her judgement was defective since her party fared no better in her absence.

<<She... was clearly loved by many people in this country>>
And, I never doubted that for one moment...they just didn't love her as PM!


But Poirot should still watch her back with shortman around. Seems to make no difference that you might be on the same side of the house as him,it didn't for Julia anyway--one moment he was with her, the next he was agen her --and the next...he was in her seat!

Dear SPQR,

Isn't that how politics is played?
All major political parties have their
musical chairs. Do your research.

Foxy,

<<All major political parties have their musical chairs>>

Yeah, and all house breakers are the same --except, every once in a while the house breakers turns out to be the Mansion family!

Whoops! Mansion should read Manson--Charlie will not be happy.
http://tinyurl.com/lukjeaz
Posted by SPQR, Tuesday, 19 November 2013 6:45:07 PM

Dear SPQR,

Don't you mean the Moran family or the Williams
clan ?
There's a series on TV called, "Australian
Families of Crime," you should watch it. It's
quite revealing if you're concerned about
"break-ins". Anyway I'm now going to go and watch
the "Keating" series. Interesting stuff. I enjoyed
the earlier John Howard series. Who knows they may
even do one on Mr Abbott sometime in the future.
Although I imagine it won't be a four-part series.

Foxy,

Aaaah! Once you've seen one crime family expose (or ABC/SBS News report) you've seen them all. The only thing outside the mold recently was "Lincoln Lawyer".

Cheers

Dear SPQR,

When my parents went to school history probably
involved memorizing names of famous people and
dates of famous events: Kings and Queens,
scientists and statesmen, wars, revolutions,
explorations. To me that's only part of the
story. I feel that if we really want to know
about the past we need to know - how people lived,
what they thought about themselves and their world,
how they solved their problems, and so on. To do this
it's necessary to study not only the "superstars" of
the age, but the ordinary people, the men, women, and
children, old people, and minority
groups. This is social history - the study of society
in the past. Of course we must be able to ask the
relevant questions and listen, not only for the answers,
but for the silences.

Foxy,
<< we need to know - how people lived...not only the "superstars" ... ordinary people... minority groups>>

What you say has some merit but I am afraid that in many of our humanity subjects/fields it has gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond that.

Many humanity subjects are now little short of one-eyed leftwing indoctrination --no exaggeration. I would not have believed if I had not seen it.

That is why I said to you on a different thread that what Iftikhar posted isn't an isolated extreme viewpoint, it is the standard fare in many of our Unis.

Foxy,

Juliar was fired by her party after the voters abandoned her and everything she stood for. While she has many sycophants, there are many more that despise her.

P,

The mafia are corrupt, have no respect for the rule of law or individual right, are completely without principles, continuously line their own pockets from the earnings of the poorest, will do anything to retain power, and will take severe action against anyone that speaks out against them.

Exactly like the labor/greens/union alliance. I was going to try and compare them with the Tea party, however, the Tea party at least has principles they stick to and keep their promises.

The thread however, was about the Green Tea party adopting the tea party tactics, if not their morals.

Dear SPQR,

I will disagree with you as my experience is
totally different from yours and I find the poeple
like Iftikhar are a minority and not the rule.

As far as what's being taught at universities,
again, we have an excellent example in Professor
Abdullah Saeed, Sultan of Oman, Professor of Arab and
Islamic Studies at the University of Melbourne,
Director of Asia Institute at the University of Melbourne,
Adjunct Professor, School of Law, University of
Melbourne, and the list goes on.

Professor Saeed has done great work at the Asia Institute
and has been heavily involved in both the university
and the community. He's written many books on the subject
of Muslims in Australia, and is totally different to
what Iftikhar espouses.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I don't want to be rude or unkind - but
you're wasting your time with me.
I simply don't buy what you're selling.

Foxy,

<<people like Iftikhar are a minority and not the rule>>
They may be the minority in terms of community numbers but in terms of their representation --or the representation of their views --they are very much in the dominant position.

<<As far as what's being taught at universities, again, we have an excellent example in Professor Abdullah Saeed Sultan of Omqan...>>
Listing off names provides little. And it's not just about Muslims or Islam but how history and English, in general, are represented or as is more often the case misrepresented & used to push agendas --you're reading it as me against Islam thing-- it's much, much wider than that!

Though in truth it would be interesting sit in on Professor Saeed's lectures and hear how he represents some of the low lights in Islamic history, for all his *moderation* I rather suspect he would be pushing a very much sugar coated version of Islam.

I have been having fun with this thread.
At ALP meetings and soon Christmas party,s.
See the pure cheeky attempt by the Tory,s to link Labor to their love child the Tea Party is fun!
By the way let history judge Abbott, currently if asked most Liberals would nominate a true Liberal, Frazer as the worst, because he unlike them is a Liberal.
Tea Party Tony is front runner to hold that position.
Not with us, he won that award long ago in the ALP.
But in his own party.

Dear SPQR,

At least you have an open mind on issues.
This is encouraging and will undoubtedly result
in more enjoyable discussions between us.
Fingers-crossed. Prof. Saeed does not "sugar-coat"
anything. He simply works towards a better understanding
of his subject. You may be interested in getting copies
of some of his books. One of which is, "Muslims in
Australia," and is available at any public library.

Chris Bowen says that the Opposition is prepared to immediately support raising of the debt limit to $400 billion.

If Mr Hockey wishes to raise the ceiling further he needs to release the forward estimates.

Show us the figures - show us the update. (Stop hiding information)

If the Treasurer wishes to justify the $500 billion figure, he should do so.

I'm actually finding this new government utterly hilarious to watch in action.

Staggeringly incompetent, hypocritical in it's post-election policies and even more disaster-prone than their predecessors.

Only about a week into it's first sitting and we're already an international embarrassment.

We have a PM who even looks uncomfortable in his own skin. A classic example of a "Post Turtle".

Patrol boats for Sri Lanka today - next week, tanks for Syria to keep the refugees trapped?
Talk about locking people inside a burning building.

You'd think a fireman (even an unqualified phoney one like Abbott who uses it as a image enhancer) would know better. Then again, it's his style.

Where did all the polls go?

P,

This is why the Green tea party (Labor/greens) should let the legislation pass:

"TREASURY has warned of a backlash from global investors unless Labor and the Greens help lift the nation's debt limit to $500 billion within weeks as the budget faces a "double whammy" from slower growth and a hit to tax revenue.

In a rare rebuke, Treasury secretary Martin Parkinson urged parliament to avoid letting politics get in the way of good government and cited the US debt ceiling crisis earlier this year as a reason to settle the Australian dispute immediately."

This is the second time in a few months that Treasury has called Labor liars.

Abbott was always on about labors debt, now wants to stack on another two hundred billion.
They need to justify why the increase at all.
Abbott,s big mouth is out of tune with Hockey.
Let them stick with what they went to the election with, but deny it of course.

579

Given Labor's complete financial incompetence, not only blowing the budget in every year it was in government, but committing the country to spending programs for the next decade, Labor's debt is going to blow out to greater than $400bn.

It would be great if the Labor would stop its Tea party politics and follow the advice of the Treasury.

Don't blame Labour, they are not in govt, Abbott and his band of merry men had it all solved, as they told the people of AU. There was no mention of raising the debt level to Five hundred billion. We are going to have a surplus in the first year, lets not forget.
Abbott and co were prepared to say anything to con the people, that is what they have to live with.
one week of parliament and we have a diplomatic crisis with Indonesia.
The only way out is for Abbott to step aside and let a new leader apologize sincerely, and get things back on track.

SM,

"Given Labor's complete financial incompetence..."

Oh that - the one which gave us the third lowest debt in the OECD in the wake of the GFC...low unemployment, AAA credit rating,etc.

The economy which Hockey described as being in "good shape"...

That one?

Yes...dreadful.

But here's an article - although the reason I post it is for the excellent cartoon...which sums it up nicely.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/parkinson-gives-hockey-a-leg-up-20131120-2xvti.html

: )

579,

Considering that the coalition hasn't put any legislation through yet, the entire budget projections are based on the spending programs put in place by labor. There is no one else to blame.

The only reason labor is being difficult is to manufacture a crisis, just like the Tea party.

P,

That's the problem Labor delivered a massive debt. The only reason it was lower than most is because the coalition left a large surplus.

This govt has been in power for Two months + and has caused a diplomatic uproar. Abbott was going to do this that and every other thing without delay.
That is what he told the AU people, and he went to an election with that.
There has been no drop in boat arrivals, the numbers are worse than when labor left govt:.
The noalition is in govt; so don't blame Labor.

Hasbeen way back up the thread posted by far the silliest post I have seen this year.
And made claims Poirot had just done that! HA HA great stuff.
In my view the post gets the 2013 award for its lets say silly walks.
Tea Party Tony ;looked frail in question time, he sounds more like GWB every day ah and a ums are not words Tea Party ok?

Dear Shadow Minister,

Come, come - they also sold off most of our assets, and
left a crumbling infrastructure that had to be fixed.
Get real!

Here you go, SM.

Here's a collection of quotes by Tony Abbott arguing against increasing the debt ceiling.

http://www.phonytonyabbott.com/quotes/a-collection-of-quotes-from-tony-abbott-on-labor-raising-the-debt-ceiling

He's a hypocrite....

(although that's only the most obvious of his endearing qualities:)

Why could anyone think Abbott could suddenly end his foot in mouth disease His history of saying something stupid goes back many years.
Now he has got Indonesia saying he has no diplomacy. First international visit and what happens. Is this man suitable to be prime minister, maybe a change is in order. Three years of this, and we could end up in real trouble.
In opposition they went on about our debt level, now they want to stack on another 200 billion, this is not what they told the people of AU and went to the poll with. All they done was con the people telling straight out lies. Abbott's brand of politics is a phony, he will stumble from disaster to disaster without any foresight.

P,

Labor left a crumbling infrastructure that had to be fixed, and a huge debt.

I see now that Bowen is crumbling, as he realises that he can't win this one.

Dear Shadow Minister,

All economic experts, world banks and credit agencies
dispute your opinions. As did Joe Hockey before the gag
was placed on him.

I find it amazing watching Question Time in Parliament
how instead of telling us their policies the current
government keeps on acting as if they're still in
opposition - blaming Labor, the carbon-tax, for everything
and not answering direct specific questions. Someone
should tell them they've actually won, and how about
telling us what they're going to do now - instead of
consistently finger-pointing to the past.

As for people crumbling?

Goodness me - take a look at Question Time.
The new Speaker doesn't give the opposition a chance to
open its mouth or its Ministers to represent their
electorates. She's so biased that there should be
a vote of confidence against her. She needs to be
removed from office. Her behaviour goes against the
Parliamentary Speaker's Tradition - and she simply
should be replaced. Parliament should be closed down
while she continues to behave the way she does.
She's obvsioulsy totally unsuited for the job. She's out
of her depth entirely.

Well said, Foxy.

"Goodness me - take a look at Question Time.
The new Speaker doesn't give the opposition a chance to
open its mouth or its Ministers to represent their
electorates. She's so biased that there should be
a vote of confidence against her. She needs to be
removed from office. Her behaviour goes against the
Parliamentary Speaker's Tradition - and she simply
should be replaced. Parliament should be closed down
while she continues to behave the way she does.
She's obvsioulsy totally unsuited for the job. She's out
of her depth entirely."

Poor old Bronny is a bit of a worry.

If she's not confusing member's titles, she confusing members.

If she's not confusing members, she's confusing protocol.

If she's not confusing protocol, she's fumbling around in her book trying to find which one she should be consulting.

If she's not fumbling around in her book, she's accidentally referring, during Madam Speaker's judgment, to "we" - meaning she and the government.

She makes a mockery of "impartiality" in the Speaker's position.

She is bringing the Parliament into disrepute.

Bill Shorten is looking the goods.
His one nation one answer offer on the Spy thing is great.
In contrast much future humor is being born with Abbott,s Bush like mode of talking.
Bronwyn Bishop? gee no other party would have her! she is blundering names and seats/positions held nearly every time.
Shorten in contrast to Tea Party Tony is as smart as one of the Rodents known to live in the country out door dunny, and is shining light on Abbott,s true nature/inability to lead.

Belly you have descended back into abuse and I can understand that as TA is now in charge and will be a fine PM for our country.
Shorten could do nothing else as it was his predecessor who was running things when the Indonesian President was being bugged by our spy services. Lets not get over-excited, let us at least try and play nice?

Dear Poirot,

Here's a link that shows just how "diplomatic" our
new PM can be capable of being:

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/dont-quote-me-says-ton-but-maaate-8230-20130816-2s1zy.html

This article also appeared in The Sydney Morning Herald.

Foxy,

I remember when Mike Carlton first wrote that article.

It was "obviously" over-the-top satire.

Here's the rub..... a lot of people took it seriously and attacked Carlton on twitter.

He retweeted every comment that "didn't get the satire".

The reason some people didn't get it was because, it was entirely believable...ie, within the bounds of possibility for people to imagine that Tones would behave like that.

Says it all....

Poirot Your belief that TA would talk like that shows your hatred and nothing of TA.
I wonder how Carlton would have laughed if he had been outed as a paedophile? Purely for satire of course, ho, ho, ho. Oh no sorry, being left wing he would be sqealing like the proverbial.
You left wingers were the ones squealing about mysogony with Gillard well take a look at who is talking.

Dear Poirot,

It is totally believable - especially
considering Mr Abbott's past history while at
Melbourne University, and his attack-dog politics
in Parliament, and now he tries to present himself
as "Mr Stability?" while he gags his Ministers and
is keeping the government process operating stealthily.
Dear oh dear.

JBowyer,

"Poirot Your belief that TA would talk like that shows your hatred and nothing of TA."

Where did I say that I believed that Abbott would say those things?

I said some people believed it because they imagined that it was a feasible scenario....".ie, within the bounds of possibility for people to imagine that Tones would behave like that."

The people who "didn't get it" were Abbott supporters outraged that someone could have a bit fun with their Tones.

They were used to Tones and Co having it all their way - standing in front of banners proclaiming "Ditch the Witch" and the like.

Therefore, they're probably not the sharpest wits around - if you get my drift.

Us left wingers! gee that is funny!
From just right of the very right poster after poster slings that at us.
We however can use that!
See those using it are telling us just how far right they are.
Tea Party Tony and Hansel and Gretel [the two Bishops] have fed them pap and they took it all in.
In a way I *truly* think reversing the truth as naming us that way clearly does, is Labors best help in re gaining office.
Labor/Tea Party?
Settle all those with two right arms.
Yes Labor took the ground Liberals left from about 1980, but we have no intention of following you that far!
So Tea Party land/Lib Nats can romp around that paddock forever.

Indonesia are now calling for Abbott's head. The lack of action from someone so brave, is now going to turn Indonesia into a dangerous place for Aussies. This whole thing has now escalated into violence.
Diplomacy and Abbott are not connected, we have an idiot as PM.

Oh how the worm is turned.

Not long ago when we criticized either of the moronic duo of Juliar and Krudd whenever they made one of their mind numbingly stupid moves, the left whingers would chant in chorus that we shouldn't disrespect the office of prime minister. Yet as their PM tries to resolve yet another mess left behind by Labor, they all proceed with vigour to do exactly what they were criticizing others for.

All you left whingers are raging hypocrites.

Now sit back and watch the adults at work.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Adults at work?

Have you watched Question Time in Parliament
recently?

It's Abbott's oversized mouth that escalated it into a fiasco. There will be more to come. It may take a change of leader to resolve this. Abbott will certainly not be popular in Indonesia any more, and neither will aussies traveling there.

579,

Rudd is entirely to blame with this crisis. Abbott is acting as an adult by not reacting in a knee jerk fashion like that diplomatic moron Juliar.

Dear Shadow Minister,

"Moron" and "Juliar?"

Your definition of behaving like an adult?

That explains a great deal!

SM,

"Abbott is acting as an adult by not reacting in a knee jerk fashion...."

Must admit I'm enjoying watching our excuse for a Prime Minister hash this one up.

(Almost as much fun as watching SM defend his incompetence)

Not merely for the hashing - which is unfortunate.

But for the sheer spectacle of watching this bozo trying to convince us that he's really PM material.

It's like watching a chimpanzee trying to whip up a three course meal, balanced on a unicycle while reading Voltaire...

Well, you get my drift.....

Quelle horreur! ;-)

Early days...but all set for One Term Tones

http://m.smh.com.au/national/voter-mood-turns-on-coalition-20131124-2y436.html

"Bill Shorten has made the strongest debut of any opposition leader since Kevin Rudd, propelling Labor into the lead against a government weighed down by its secretive asylum seeker response and an unconvincing commitment to action on global warming.

The first Fairfax-Nielsen poll since the election on September 7 has charted a rapid recovery for the ALP, with the opposition shooting to a 52 to 48 per cent lead over the government, according to the preferences of respondents. This is the quickest poll lead achieved by any federal opposition after losing an election.

It is also the first time in more than three years that Labor has led on the two-party-preferred vote.

The result will be seen as a wake-up call to the Abbott government as it struggles to maintain confidence in its tough stop-the-boats policy while refusing to reveal the most basic details on grounds of operational security."

Just sayin'.......

Dear Poirot,

I'm sorry that I couldn't comment on the other
thread where your post got deleted because I
had used up my quota of posts on that thread.
So I'm commenting here. I'm not sure what sort
of an appeal process there is to appeal a
Moderator's decision. I don't even know how does
one start that procedure of even if one can.

Perhaps it could be suggested that just the "profanity"
could be deleted but not the entire post? So that the thrust
could be allowed to remain?

Anyway, I hope that Graham won't give you a "holiday"
as you suggest. This place would become rather dull
without you.

Fingers-crossed.

This article puts it in a nutshell:

"JULIA Gillard and Bill Shorten last week gave the Prime Minister advice they should hope like hell he won't take.

Because if Tony Abbott really were the wrecker and thug they claim, then he would indeed say sorry to Indonesia - sorry Labor had been so catastrophically stupid.

He really would promise Indonesia that Australia would never again spy on the phones of its President, his wife and his ministers as the Rudd government authorised our spies to do in 2009.

He would say only people as reckless and paranoid as then prime minister Kevin Rudd and his deputy, Gillard, would bug a president as friendly to us as Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

Sorry, he'd tell Yudhoyono. Sorry we once had those crazier in charge. I'm here to fix it.

And with glee, Abbott would bury Labor's face so deep in this stinking mess with Indonesia that new Opposition Leader Bill Shorten would never surface.

So why doesn't Abbott do something so clearly to his advantage?

Why doesn't he listen to Gillard, a former prime minister who now sides with Indonesia against the Government of her own country?

So, yes, Abbott could give in to Indonesia - nothing easier - and make Labor seem cowboys, wreckers and hypocrites.

Instead, he's kept his head, endured Labor's insults and acted not in his own interests but in Australia's. At last, an adult in charge."