The news tells us UN climate chief Christiana Figueres has attacked Tony Abbott's carbon plan.

Well what do you know? Do you think that just might be because that fool Gillard promised 20% of our carbon dioxide tax to the UN?

You have to agree, anything that goes the opposite way to the most corrupt organisation ever seen on the planet, has to be going in the right direction.

It might be a good idea on the UNs behalf, to shut the fool Ms. Figueres up. Every time they flog the dead horse of their pet money redistribution vehicle, climate change, they wake up, & alienate just a few more of the slumbering public.

Who the hell is this bird anyway? Where is our much loved Indian railway engineer, who has been pushing the crap for the UN this last decade?

Now we know?.
Once a man said every thing that could be invented had been.
This threads thoughts and directions is as wrong as that man was.
And the amazing thing is Hasbeens views ignore science and mounting world action.
May you live long and prosper Hasbeen, and look back in ten or fifteen years at these thoughts with a clearer understanding.
And by then the events in this area as they will be then.

this country would not have a cigarette butt on its ground if half the wasted money ripped off the tax payers was paid in improving our environment rather than green religious zealots and public servants. Imagine we had of done the necessary clearing before the bushfires. Are not the UN the fools who are backing terrorist against Israels democracy. Why do Labour/Greens keep selling out to these fools. Last nights Q&A was revealing when the guest Chinese academic xpressed the opinion that the Chinese Government could not give a stuff about gw. Tony Jones had to quickly move on to stop him saying anymore.

Belly Belly Belly, mate have a real look.

Germany, Spain, France, Belgium & Denmark are all running away from alternate energy, & the stupid subsidies they paid, just as fast as their little legs will carry them. It is only the fool Poms left in Europe that are still killing themselves with it.

There is a fair bit of evidence that it is vested interests in the present UK government members, & the large land holders where windmills are sighted that keep it going.

Add the absolute stupidity of the UK importing wood chips from the USA to replace coal, despite this increasing total emissions, & I can't see how anyone with a single thought can support it. It is all expensive gesture, with no substance.

It is a great program for corruption on a grand scale, left alone by the media, as they "believe".

Even Germanys premier magazine has recently come out against the fool alternate energy schemes. When greenie journalists start knocking it, you know alternate power generation is really stinking so badly they can no longer ignore it.

Have a good look around mate, I think you're missing a bit. You should not let your dislike of the Libs colour your thought processes, on something so important.

Dear Hasbeen,

The pollution problem is an exceedingly difficult one
to solve, for several reasons. First some people and
governments see pollution as a regrettable but inevitable
by-product of desired economic development -
"Where there's smoke, there's jobs." Second, control of
pollution requires international co-ordination. Third, the
effects of pollution may not show up for many, many years,
so severe environmental damage can occur with little
public awareness that it is taking place. Fourth, preventing
or correcting pollution can be costly, technically complex,
and sometimes - when the damage is irreversible -
impossible. In general, the most industrialised nations are
now actively trying to limit the effects of pollution,
but the populous less developed societies are more
concerned with economic growth, and tend to see pollution as
part of the price they have to pay for it.

Mr Abbott was elected leader of his party primarily because
of his opposition to placing a price on carbon. He has no
choice but to continue with that particular stand.
Also there are powerful vested interests in Australia
including the fossil fuel lobby, the mining industry, and
carbon intensive corporations that are heavy donors to Mr
Abbott's Liberal Party. The following link lists the
amounts donated and the reasons why Mr Abbott has to abolish
the carbon price. It also explains the Liberal's policy and
why it is considered a sham and the fact that no credible
organisation, economist, or scientific body supports Mr Abbott's
direct action policy.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/southern-crossroads/2013/sep/18/tony-abbott-abolish-carbon-price

It remains difficult for some to come to terms with the results of the election.

It remains difficult for some to come to terms with the results of the election.
onthebeach,
Those with some sense don't have that problem & those who do will always have a problem no matter what.

Abbotts gay sister Christine Forester has announced her engagement to her partner Virginia Edwards. Unfortunately due to big brother Tony's loathing for gay marriage the couple may have to go to New Zealand or even France to tie the knot. The big question would be, will Tony and a plane load of cronies fly in for the nuptials, naturally at taxpayers expense.
Laugh at this one, Liberal John Alexander and a family member made a taxpayer funded trip to of all places Margaret River in remote WA for 6 nights to "study" traffic congestion. Alexander is the Liberal member for Howard's old seat of Bennelong in Sydney. Do these Coalition MP's think taxpayers are mugs when it comes to this snouts in the trough affair.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/electoral-business-behind-john-alexanders-taxpayer-trip-to-margaret-river-20131021-2vwun.htm

Lol Paul1405 :)
I go to Margaret River regularly for work, and it is about the least traffic congested place that I go to!
If the pollie went there to study more economic ways to grow grapevines , make wine, or for tourism reasons, I might think that could be ok, but not traffic congestion.

He would surely have to pay that money back? What a rort!

As for Tony's sister marrying her girlfriend, if he had any guts at all, he would stand behind his party line (and his religious scruples) and refuse to attend such a sinful 'marriage'.
Either way, I would certainly not expect any tax-payer funds being spent on any pollies wedding, let alone their family or friend's weddings.

onthebeach,

"It remains difficult for some to come to terms with the results of the election".

Do you mean like Abbott a few years ago?

otb,

""It remains difficult for some to come to terms with the results of the election"."

On the contrary, it's turning out to be a constant source of hilarity - from Tones taking all his photo ops dressed in a firey's costume, to unfolding saga of rorter's heaven....and to top it off Mr Bugdet Emergency, Eleventy Joe, today launched his new book titled, " Debt Ceilings for Dummies" (or "That's Not a Debt limit - This is a Debt Limit")

For all those who miss the Coalition's BS - here's a walk down memory lane:

http://www.joehockey.com/media/media-releases/details.aspx?r=254

What the bookies say about Bill Shorten's chances of surviving to the next election? OK, that is too far in the future to get any odds at all. What about his chances of surviving to the end of next year? Short odds?

In photos together, Tanya Plibersek is already giving Shorten 'that' look, the calculating, narrow-eyed one - stink eyes in Left parlance- that Julia Whatshername used on Kevin Rudd.

The photo in this article is one example of many,
http://neoskosmos.com/news/en/democratising-the-alp

Asbestos pants and knee pads, Bill!

It seems to be working,

The latest essential poll shows the increased popularity of the liberal party and especially Abbott who is far preferred over backstabber Bill.

The boats are stopping, and we are getting shot of the carbon tax that Labor promised we wouldn't get.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/john-howard-warns-liberals-frail-labor-will-rise-again-20131022-2vz5x.html
This link comes from a man I fought so very hard.
A man, not uncommon in politics, who let his wife, an unelected person have far too great a say in his leadership.
Yet in truth a man who walked and talked politics.
It is hard to find fault in his words in the link.
Reality tells us some, on both sides will try.
But be aware in the back of his mind he knows it was a party trashed at the last election.
Not policy,s.
And Abbott came to power, with no intention of delivering his scrambled eggs policy,s.
Even intentionally using the Labor policy,s he for so long said had this country debt bound[Hocky raises debt ceiling].
These tragic fires?
Gives more room for the massive unachievable tree planting back bone of Abbott,s anti change climate policy,s.
After, and it will take place, the Greens contaminated Tasmanian Government is thrashed, maybe a lessor one for South Australia, the Labor movement will be a very different and successful one.

SM, That flip of a treasure "we" have Hayseed Hockey is doing an "Obama" and lifting the Australian debt ceiling to $500,000,000. can we expect Tea Party members amongst the Liberals to shut down the government. Was it not just a few short weeks ago that the Abbott mantra was "we must reign in the debt to save Australia". Abbott wont reign in the shouts in the trough, little own reign in the debt.
"the increased popularity of the liberal party" What about a comment on the Miranda by-election last Saturday? 27% swing to Labor.

rein not reign. The Mad Monk reigns.
Maybe the conservatives are still on the old British imperial system and the new debt ceiling would be 500,000,000,000,000 pounds.
Something new: The Abbott bunch not content with their own snouts in the trough, they have now invited their mates in to see how best for them to get their snouts into an even bigger trough. We now have the nicely named "Commission of Audit" subtitled "The Bureau of Rip Offs". Who makes up this illustrious commission, chair Tony Shepherd (Business) Peter Crone (Business), Peter Boxall (friend of business), Tony Cole (friend of business) Robert Fisher (friend of business) and Amanda Vanstone (twit). What will the agenda be for this most business friendly mob.

1. Identify all the juicy government plumbs to pluck for the big end of town. Naturally to be sold at a bargain basement prices.
2. See how much of public money the Coalition can blow to provide infrastructure for business. No problem Hockey just got his hands on half a billion bucks.
3. Introduce business friendly only taxes, like hike the GST to 15% Chairman Shepherd is big on that one.
4. Think of any other ways of making the rich richer and the poor poorer, demand big spending cuts to welfare, health, education etc.

Paul,

Perhaps you would care to read what you have written to avoid sounding like a gibbering idiot.

As the debt is entirely generated by the labor government not only spending like drunken sailors, but entrenching spending at unaffordable levels with a bloated public service, huge cash hand outs, and white elephant projects.

Given that the Labor dunces knew the debt ceiling would be reached by December and have raised it a record 4 times in 6 years, it was reckless not to raise it prior to the election. As the libs are raising it now the only idiots that could block it would be Labor.

Belly,

Labor will probably rise from the ashes when sufficient time has passed for the public to forget how incompetent they were at governing.

Come on SM, what are they doing cutting the debt or increasing the debt? Can't have it both ways, or can you. Maybe Hockey is as bad at maths as they say he is.
Can I have a comment on the Miranda by-election, the Liberals were white washed, who's fault was that, O'Farrell, Abbott or both. I feel it was done to both of them. What do you say?
Your silence makes you a "gibbering idiot". A little while back you had something to say about insults, now you throw one here. You are fair game once more

Paul,

It took the coalition more than a year in 1996 to stop the budget hemorrhaging and about 10 years to pay back the debt. This time Juliar and Dudd made Hawke and Keating, who in their time left a record debt, look fiscally responsible.

Labor has left the economy in the worst state in decades, and while the coalition are miles better than labor, they cannot perform miracles.

As for Miranda, considering the latest NSW polls, the coalition is still way ahead so while the voters in Miranda can be expected to be angry about MP Graham Annersley walking away mid term, I wouldn't read too much into it. As they say, "a single swallow does not a summer make."

As for the "insult" I was just giving some friendly advice to review what you have written before posting, as carelessness can give the impression that you should be wearing a tin hat and tilting at windmills.

PS. a plum is a fruit that can be picked, and a plumb is a vertical measuring device.

SM you are quite right, not the reason that lives only in your head but the truth we will rise again.
And as we do your team falls, federal polls pointing to this will be seen mid next year.
By mid the one after any by election will be more than likely a loss for your team.
Being honest my views on Tasmania are gloomy the chances for the greens controlled team down there are about the same as me winning the lottery.
Without holding a ticket.
SA? maybe the time before an election, balanced with the unfolding lies and total rottenness in your team can save us.
SM do you in my post see a truth?
I know the ALP knows I know you know at some level the greens contamination of this c0ountrys politics is on the way out.

Philip1405;
For goodness sake stop being so silly.
Have you never heard about how long it takes a 1 million ton tanker to
change course ?

It is very much like that with the economy

I hope you can see what I am saying to you. It is really very simple.
If you still don't understand, let me know and I will try again.

Foxy, the phrases and words you used in your post are rather inexact.

For instance you speak about pollution, eg;

In general, the most industrialised nations are
now actively trying to limit the effects of pollution,

Now that is very true, but it would be more accurate to your intention
to say CO2 rather than pollution.
Many countries have legislation about pollution but do not include co2.

CO2 is not a pollutant and similarly co2 is not carbon which is quite
a difference substance.

The effect of the way you use the language is to condemn by association.
In any other discussion this would be considered unfair or dishonest.

Did you hear the words coming out of Hockey's mouth at yesterday's presser?

"The credit rating is what matters."

Well, golly gee.

Here's how works - straight out of dodgy LNP 101

"Never mind the fact that we've been yodelling about debt for the last 6 years - and dismissing healthy credit ratings...now that we've conned our way into govt, we'll adopt the contrary position, while simultaneously blaming Labor for any future debt."

And all the nongs who voted for us will ably assist us on the blogs.

It's a win win all round.

(Let's hope they also ignore our blatantly fascist tendencies.)"

Now Poirot, you are trying to be as silly as Philip1405.

"Where there's smoke, there's jobs."
Foxy,
Where there is no smoke is where most of our tax dollars go because our tax dollars pay for an artificially clean surrounds for artificial positions with an artificial economy.

Dear Bazz,

I was referring to pollution generally speaking.

Over the past decades, pollution of the
environment has begun to threaten the ecological
balance of the planet and the health of many of
its species, including ourselves.

I don't think
anybody would deny that the planet has a finite
amount of resources or that it can tolerate only a
limited amount of pollution. If world population
continues to grow rapidly, if industrialisation spreads
around the world, and if pollution and resource depletion
continues at an increasing rate - and all these things
happen - we need to ask where is human society headed?
As I've stated in the past - the most optimisitc
answer to these questions would be that, one way or another,
sweeping social changes await us.

sweeping social changes await us.
Foxy,
profoundly so but I'm afraid the changes will be more anti-social than social.

SM you are absolutely correct plum as in plum jam and plumb as in plumb bob that's bob as in plumb bob not as in Bob Downe who is in fact Mark Trevorrow. Not doing too well lately after a bout of illness, but my opinions are as spot on as ever. Now that is about the only thing in you post that I find correct.
Now something very simple that the conserves can understand, and that's not the conserves as in plum conserve, but rather the conserves as in right wing nutters, who like things in simplistic terms, fits in nicely with their level of intelligence.
Take a fellow with a credit card, a bit of a bad financial manager, we'll call him Joe. Joe tells everyone who will listen. that his CC debt is out of control and he intends to cut up his credit card. But Joe also said "I'll get rid of my bad credit card only after I contact the bank and get them to double my limit." Joe doesn't tell his mates that also its October and Xmas is coming and he thinks it would be a good idea to max out the new credit limit on Xmas gifts for himself and his mates. Joe justifies this excess spending on the grounds that his ex, Kevin, when he was around, Joe's gay by the way, maxed out his CC with a new triple limit, and he's got to pay that one off as well.
I hear your asking, why did Joe and Kev split? Well, Kev turned straight and ran away to Queensland with a shella named Julia. Its sad that the truth is Kev has not been the same sice the days he was buggered up by a Father Tony from the CC mob. Father Tony took Kev's CC and buggered that as well.

Tony Abbott is our Prime Minister, in the spirit of helping a man in trouble out my thoughts on helping him make cuts are here.
Stop the greedy pigs nose in trough travel rorts see all are repaid.
Cut the social welfare for the already rich out, all of it.
Break his promise to reward polluters and name it affirmative action.
The list is long, apart from true waste do not dare Mr Abbott cut welfare while increaseing it for the already well off.

Razz, I've gotta agree with you about the Philip1405 character a bit a right wing dip stick. Razz is he your alter ego.

Thanks Foxy for the reply.
As I said I don't believe you can call co2 a pollutant.
Without it plants die. We breath it out. Glasshouses buy co2 bottles
to increase the co2 level.
You said;and if pollution and resource depletion
continues at an increasing rate

Well it won't, as we can already see, nearly all developed countries
have falling fuel consumption.
As prices increase consumption will fall.

The US oil consumption has fallen from approx 22 million barrels a day
to about 18 million barrels a day.
Coal also is costing more to mine.
It is these costs that will reduce world emissions of co2.

Your points are supported by a presumption of growth increasing to
pre 2007 levels. It will not happen because it just cannot.
There is not enough cheap fuels to do it.

Paul,

This credit card was given 6 years ago with zero debt and a positive balance to this fellow we will call Whine. After 6 years of incompetence, Whine is fired but not only leaves the credit card maxed out, but bought a pile of crap that still has to be paid for. Joe who new gets the credit card has to raise the limit to avoid bills not being paid, and losing the credit rating, and needs to return the crap that Whine bought.

Joe considered the debt ceiling a limit, Whine considered it a target.

Eleventy Joe "now" says "The credit rating is what matters".

Which is code for "bugger the debt - that was only our angle to garner votes from the nongs".

SM, you're a scream! We've had an AAA rating under Labor's fiscal management - something which you always ignored when screaming about debt.

Now you say "Joe who new gets the credit card has to raise the limit to avoid bills not being paid, and losing the credit rating..."

Tell me why Eleventy had to max it out to $500 billion, when $400 billion would have sufficed for a party planning on tightening the belt?

........

Here's Tone's latest"

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2013/10/24/politics/pms-dept-grow-part-reform

"Prime Minister Tony Abbott's own department will more than quadruple in size by December 31 under a plan that comes alongside the Abbott government's plan to cut some 12,000 public service jobs over the coming two years, according to The Australian Financial Review.

The newspaper reported that the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet will grow from 552 staffers as of August 31 to about 2,250 staff by the end of the year as part of a plan to see the department take on expanded duties."

Yep - belt tightening is only for the plebs.

"Tell me why Eleventy had to max it out to $500 billion, when $400 billion would have sufficed for a party planning on tightening the belt?" Poirot what's a $100 billion between friends, besides Julie might have to pop out during a cabinet meeting to pick a packet of Iced Vo Vo's for the men's arvo tea. That's her job isn't it? Gotta have something in the petty cash, lots of wedding, bicycle races, holidays in the Bahamas etc on the horizon for Libs and Nats to attend. Someone has to pay, who do you suggest pays for that kind of important government business, Tony!

Maybe if we can rise for a time above the petty political point scoring.

While successive Secretaries of PM&C have spoken about the need for a 'whole of government approach' and 'being the preferred source of advice to government' (as do their counterparts in the UK), what the PM&C mandarins really mean is PM&C giving that advice, and PM&C being chockers with Senior Executive Service executive managers to do it. All of that jacks up the prestige and remuneration of the Secretary of the PM&C. However it isn't about the pay, it is the power and there is jockeying to do with the mandarins of Finance et al.

The tone was set at the top by Gough Whitlam who didn't trust the public service and trusted his ministers even less (more so because they were not as imbued with his 'mission' as he saw it). Gough was a benevolent dictator. Other centralist and statist PMs who followed him have done the same. The present PM is not a statist, one would imagine. Or is he, with a different slant? He is a centralist from what I can see so far. The rhetoric is opposite.

Since Whitlam made it so and he was a dominating figure, particularly after William McMahon, there has been far too much attention and decision-making focussed on the PM and Executive. It is anti-democratic, excluding the participation of ministers outside of the small circle of annointed ones. Backbenchers become marionettes, there to put the hand up (and nod as the women do, why?) when ordered by the party Whip.

Parrot,

The coalition under Howard were the ones that got the AAA credit rating for the first time, and that Labor under Juliar and Whine were warned by both S&P and Fitch that they were in danger of losing their credit rating because of their unrestrained spending and failure to meet their promised surplus. So Labor is in no position whatsoever to lecture the coalition.

A loss of credit rating would mean that the interest on Labor's debt would rise from the $8bn p.a. it is now.

As for the office of the PM increasing, you are being dishonest again. The article you linked explained why the staffing was increasing, and it was because of the additional responsibilities that were moving from social services (aboriginal) to the PM's office, and the associated staff were moving too. This is standard shuffling with the public sector, not Abbott adding handservants and tea boys.

Go and tell someone who cares Spinner Minister (I can see the attraction in making up namies:)

As for Tony having the policy right.

Well, now the deniers have taken over, we're left with the Minister for Environment waxing lyrical about getting his scientific info from wiki.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/wikipedias-verdict-on-greg-hunt-terrible-at-his-job-20131024-2w34y.html

You fellows and your political heroes are proving most humorous.

Don't know science - get your info from denier sites and wiki.

Lie about the economy - until you get government.

What a bunch of diabolical improvisors.

Well all, have you noticed something about Poirot's responses ?
They are very mechanical. Not actually machine like but almost like
Turing's test. Her/its responses are becoming very predicable, like
she/it is following a flow chart, setup with today's topics.

Her/its responses are nothing like Foxy's responses at all.

Hmmm

Why thank you, Bazz.

Foxy is a most courteous poster.

Poirot, on the other hand, is more likely to dispense with the niceties and reply in kind.

It's a failing of mine. : )

Tell me, what is your excuse for your limited repertoire?

You're not exactly the possessor of a broad range of responses yourself.

Poirot said;
Tell me, what is your excuse for your limited repertoire?

You're not exactly the possessor of a broad range of responses yourself.

You are correct and deliberately so.
I am on a mission to wake you all up to the state of the world in relation to energy.
That is my first concern and the second is its effect on the economy
and how we transition to the next economic model.
eg the Transition Town Movement.

Compared to this, same sex marriage, global warming etc etc become irrelevant.

I do not automatically blame just one group of politicians for the
lack of real action, although it does seem as though one side has
been a total mess latterly. However while people like Belly are still
members I hope they will get back on track.

Fair enough, Bazz.

But why blame me when I get a little over-excited when the "saviour" LNP start behaving like 24 carat hypocrites and clueless fibbers...so early in their term.

Surely you have to give me some leeway there?

Well, maybe I am wrong, but you seem to me to never find anything
positive in one side and never find anything negative in another side.

I do lean to one side, but I do find both sides to be totally out of
touch on many subjects and only focus on the next three years.
On my pet hobby horse, I have spoken to pollies and they are totally clueless.
There are only two awake in Canberra and one has retired that are aware;
Barnaby Joyce and Martin Ferguson.

Bazz,

I have in the past criticised Gillard.

Why, just this morning I had a poke at Shorten and his invisibility cloak.

Anyhoooo....there's so much material to work with at the moment, yer can't blame me for indulging myself.

: )

Parrot,

If there is so much material to work with, why do you have to make up some?

You claim I am spinning, yet you take an article that talks about something giving reasons, and take the situation and impose your own reasons. You should work with Labor, they specialize in dishonest spinning and getting caught out.

I'd like to ask Poirot a couple of simple questions. It would be nice to receive a simple and direct answer but that might be asking a lot.

If the agreed amount of atmospheric CO2 contributed by humans equates to 12.5% of all atmospheric CO2, the rest (87.5%) coming from naturally occuring sources, and Australia only contributes 1.5% of the 12.5% 0.000875 of the total, do you honestly believe any changes in Australia will make one iota of difference to the climate?

Another question is: can you please explain how taking money out of my pocket via a carbon tax and at the same time awarding low income earners the equivalent amount will reverse the climate trends?