The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Do-it-yourself voluntary euthanasia for older Australians

Do-it-yourself voluntary euthanasia for older Australians

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. All
A number of older Australians are joining forces to make the suicide drug nembutal available. This drug is illegal in Australia and this open act of civil disobedience puts these people at risk of severe penalties. But why should they have to go through this when the vast majority of Australians want legal access to voluntary euthanasia anyway?

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=265577&_cobr=optus
Posted by Rex, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 5:00:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Rex,I agree.Many of our aged get to the stage of being too diminished both physically and intellectually to be able to determine their time of exit."They shoot horses don't they?",and we relieve animals we love of agony when their lives become agonising.

People should be able to determine their time of exit from life with family members around demonstrating their love,without any interference from religious do gooders or Govt officialdom.

If the law does not change many will end their lives prematurely for fear of being trapped in some nursing home being incontinent,incompetent and totally incapicitated without any human dignity.Suffering at this stage in life does not make us better people,only suffering slaves to the ideologues of those who have not a clue.

We have no say in being born,at least we should have the right to have a say in our own end.
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 9:31:48 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Rex, there are strong arguments for euthanasia,for the right to choose one's own time of death and the dignity this would allow.
But I think that no law could be drafted that would cover every contingency and bring about the didnity desired. Actually, I reckon the opposite is likely to happen-an ugly chaos of lawmaking to cover family disputes and horrific legal cases. I've seen and heard of enough greed and selfishness over the estates of both the living and the dead to know that legalising euthanasia would open the gates not just to the just, but to any amount of unspeakable behaviour as well.
Euthanasia already exists in numerous instances between 'consenting adults', thru the decision to cease or withhold treatments. I think that this is about as good as it gets.
So fine in theory, but will not work in practise.
Posted by palimpsest, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 9:43:20 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Thank you, Rex.
I agree that this suicide drug should be available- but I am not very optimistic that this will happen in the near future, at least not as long as we have a government that controls Australians by interferance such as taking books of shelves about such issues.
The book titled The Peaceful Pill was banned recently- the author acknowledges that Nembutal is the most peaceful way people can commit suicide, but he offers realistic alternatives as well, for people who cannot obtain these powerful sedatives.

We are stuck (for the time being) with a minister for the aging, Christopher Pyne (did you see him on the Insight program about euthanasia?). He adamently said that he would never allow promotion of suicide. It’s clear that he endorses policy according to his religion.

There’s a good Christian for you! A Christian who supports natural death and watches as people are being pulled of life support and either starve slowly or choke to death.
What a horrible, inhumane experience not only for the terminally ill patient but for the family as well. Arjay is right, we treat terminally ill animals with more dignity. I find it very distressing to think about the plight of our aged people.

Why deny person a peaceful, quick death with less suffering?

What surprised me on that euthanasia program was that only about 30% of the people who were accepted by a Swiss euthanasia clinic took advantage of it. For them, it was enough to merely have the permission as a back-up plan. They coped better with their disease and their pain after they were accepted by the clinic, and on average, 70% never go back to be euthanised.

I strongly feel that the Nembutal pills will give people peace of mind; it is comforting to know that this pill is there “in case”. They won’t have to be scared of the future, of more suffering and pain. Knowing that they are able to end it at any time may give them more courage and strength to go on living.
Posted by Celivia, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 11:32:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I also agree with the euthanasia for older Australians. What gives the government the right to tell us what we want? I am only 35 but have a "living will" as does my husband. This is a legal document which allows either one of us to turn off any machine that is keeping us alive. I think that Nembutal is a great pill to let the elder people die with some dignity and no more pain. Hopefully when I am elder it will be available. I agree with Celevia about us being humane to animals and not humans.
Posted by Fruityfee, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 10:02:46 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I must say that I was bemused and impressed, by that bunch of
oldies in the programme, who clearly want to make decisions about
their own lives, then spent 2 years to make their own Nembutal.
Congratulations to them!

If the law is clearly wrong, as in this case, only people power
can change it. These people kind of reminded me of the hippy
generation of the 60s, who did their old thing, did it en masse,
told the old fart generation of Ronald Reagan etc to get lost
and landed up changing the world.

Now its a bunch of clearly intelligent oldies, telling a few
religiously driven young farts to get lost. Great stuff!

In one sense the internet will change the world, as it takes us
beyond controling Governments. Somebody somewhere will create
a website telling us how to make our own Nebuntal, so that we can
all have that option of making decisions about our lives,
when the time comes. Flying to Switzerland in that condition
and at that age, might not be possible.

If the religious think that suffering is noble or whatever, fine
thats their choice. I prefer my own choices, not theirs to be
forced on me
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 10:12:29 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I make no apologies for my sincere and genuine belief in the right of anyone to decide how and when they die.

Neither do I make any apology for hoping that the right-to-lifers suffer a very unpleasant death as they remember their attempts to stop other people from dying with peace and dignity.
Posted by Leigh, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 10:27:36 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
There is no doubt in my mind that if suicide was made a lawful activity the laws enabling and regulating suicide would be abused by many people. Legalising suicide is legalising murder making it easier to cover up. Old people are not a burden, they are a treasure to be cherished for as long as possible.
Posted by vivy, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 11:56:04 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
'These people kind of reminded me of the hippy
generation of the 60s,'
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 10:12:29 AM

These people are the hippy generation of the 60's.
Posted by Rob513264, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 12:10:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Leigh and Arjay... I suspect it doesn't happen often, but I agree with you both wholeheartedly on this one. I don't really see why people should be held hostage to disease and illness when they would rather relieve themselves of suffering.

I hear the arguments put forth against it and I concede legalising euthanasia does have it's share of risks - however the notion that we shouldn't even try because it might be abused seems to me, to be giving up on what is an important issue. When faced with risks, you come up with solutions to get around them... you don't just give up.

Sometimes I see this argument being put forth to quell any efforts at legalising euthanasia - you often find however, that the people using the argument are less concerned about the risks, and are simply opposed at all costs.

So more importantly, has anyone got any constructive ideas in relation to how abuse of euthanasia could be prevented?
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 12:58:03 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I also support voluntary euthanasia. One of the interesting things on the 4 corners doco was the fear people have of ending up in nursing homes.

Facing an ageing population our government's response was to support the growth of a nursing home industry, which is clearly not what anyone wants. The inmates are a captive market which just adds to the indignity.

In Welcome to the Monkey House, Kurt Vonnegut (rest his clever soul) described suicide parlours. People could go there, sort out their affairs, get a bit of counselling and then go peacefully.

We'd need some really strong rules and regulations ensuring that it was voluntary, maybe a registry of intent or something. If people could register long before their competence could be questioned, like the people in the doco, you'd reduce the possibilities for complications.

I don't think that anticipating problems is a good way to start thinking about it. There are problems with everything. Should we abandon social security because some cheat? Should we get rid of schools in case some kids play up? Should we go back to flat earth theory in case someone falls off the under side?

According to currently fashionable economics markets work on simple principles of supply and demand. There's a demand for this, so where's the corresponding supply?
Posted by chainsmoker, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 3:31:43 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Vivy, based on your logic, we would have to ban say cars, matches,
knives and a host of other things, as they are likely to be abused.

Nobody has said that old people are a burden. What certainly I am
saying is that I want to make choices about my life. Life is
a journey, which I enjoy and appreciate, every day. But when/if
the time comes, when I am due to be shipped to a home, where my
arse is wiped, I'm spoon fed, in pain, to me thats not quality of
life. At that point I should have the choice to decide about me,
no matter what you think.

Now I could pull up at the side of the road, find some box poison,
which is full of 1080, eat some and die a fairly violent death,
not pleasant by any standards. I could shoot myself, slit my
wrists, there are a number of other options. My dogs are lucky,
when their time comes, I can purchase some Nembutal from the vet
and they go to sleep peacefully. Why should I not have the same
rights as my dogs?
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 8:16:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
When euthanasia was legal in the northern territory I seem to remember that you needed to get the consent of three doctors. Maybe there could be a doctor and a couple of government appointed officals who are required to be there along with the family when the actual drug is administered.
Posted by sharkfin, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 8:25:04 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It would probably be better if you didnt need the consent of three doctors just their confirmantion that you are terminally ill and wish to die peacfully using the appropriate medication.
Posted by sharkfin, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 8:30:30 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It is claimed that 80% of the population support voluntary euthanasia. How about you readers putting your hands up to be counted and join your local branch of the Voluntary Euthanasia Society and support its leader, Phillip Nitschke – one of the greatest Australians ever.
Posted by healthwatcher, Thursday, 10 May 2007 11:11:52 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
vivy,

Suicide is legal and there has never been a penalty in law for being successful.

What ever happened to the sleeping pill overdose?

I hope that if I ever need to end my life, because to continue would be unbearable, then the means will be available.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 10 May 2007 5:05:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The trouble with a sleeping pill or drug overdose is, if you dont know the actual amount to take you may be revived and end up brain damaged or something.

There is hanging by the neck until you're dead
Slicing your wrists
Gasing yourself
Shooting yourself
Non of these is very pleasant for you or your family when they find you and there is still the chance that you may botch it and end up brain damaged or worse off than before.
Thats why we need access to the right drugs and the knowledge of what the correct dosage is.
Posted by sharkfin, Thursday, 10 May 2007 8:50:49 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
What an absolutely fantastic solution to the extraordinary lengths the Right to Life exercise over those who favour the Right to Die.

Every person under the serious care of a doctor, should have the right for the opportunity to stash their personal supply of Nembutal. Clean, efficient and "relative" friendly one can take a drink with their favorite alcoholic booze and slump into the eternal sleep....I've tasted the stuff and its a little bitter but boy it should beats standing in front of a train, hanging oneself, or smothering a loved one with the nearest pillow......Nembutal used to be all the rage for our grandmothers and they didn't knock themselves off for the hell of it.....

We're living longer but not necessarily better lives with that longevity.....The ABC Documentary wanted to portray ordinary older people who were neither depressed nor anxious about the idea of dying but were aware that Government red tape would ensure they lived a life perhaps not worth living....from their perspective.

The idiot who said that suffering is OK and a life experience to be welcomed as purifying or some rubbish like that, can have my share of suffering.....Unlike the average Christian I can see no good purpose served by anyone suffering when there is no chance of recovery and even more so when it is one of my loved ones or myself...I don't want to be a hero or an example to anyone else about how tough I can show myself to be....I want peace and dignity in death.

I would like to thank the participants for highlighting their journey of discovery. But it is not only the 70 and 80 years that need help, it depends on health as well as age, how well we live and die.
Posted by yourchoiceindying.com, Thursday, 10 May 2007 9:05:34 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I support voluntary euthanasia.

Its all very well for a small vocal minority to say that every life is sacred and should be preserved at all costs, but does this minority provide respectful care for the frail aged, or expect the frail aged to be grateful that they can live in pain, slowly dying of hunger from meals costing 70 cents as they sit around in their own waste.

My grandfather used to say that pnuemonia was an old man's best friend, but increasingly keen young doctors administer massive doses of antibiotics to elderly who can't see, going deaf, losing their mobility and their friends without any regard to their patients societal circumstances.
Posted by billie, Thursday, 10 May 2007 9:16:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Any good chemists out there, please give us a possible easy recipee
for Nembutal, so that those of us who wish to, can put our stash
away, to make our free choices about our lives, for when the time comes. Anyone who has
any links, please provide them.

If you think that the godsquad will be a concern, just use an
overseas website. Many many thanks if you do, from all of us!
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 10 May 2007 9:19:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy