Hi Pericles,

<You (presumably) were sent a replacement card, with the same account number. It is the account number that determines the relationship between you and the Bank, not a piece of plastic.>

When I get sent a new card, the account number is the same, but the expiry date is different. What I object to is the fact that a merchant can continue to draw funds using the expired card details when I cannot use an expired card? Why should the merchant have this right when I do not?

Still confused, I see, Fester.

>>When I get sent a new card, the account number is the same, but the expiry date is different. What I object to is the fact that a merchant can continue to draw funds using the expired card details when I cannot use an expired card?<<

When you established the arrangement, your card showed a date later than the date of the agreement, right?

It also showed an account number, yes?

Today, when you are asked to pay the amount to the vendor, your card shows a date that is later than today's date, right? So it is a valid card, with the same valid number.

The supplier accepted your card in order to set the process in motion. He did not need to, nor was he obliged to, record the expiry date anywhere, because that was simply a check that you did, in fact, have the card in your possession.

Nor did he have the responsibility to renew the card - you did. If you had not renewed the card - that is, you allowed it to lapse at its expiry date - the supplier would not have been able to continue charging that account number... because it has expired.

But you did renew the card. It did have the same account number.

>>Why should the merchant have this right when I do not?<<

You gave him that right, when you entered into the agreement in the first place. And you do have that right yourself, to use that same card, referring to the same account number.

What is so difficult about that?

Pericles I think in large his complaint is that he can not stop the payment by giving the bank a direction on the handling of his account, without the payee's approval.

Now obviously such a system is to the banking industries advantage, as many of these recurring payment arrangements would be in favor of payments to banks for loan repayments.

I can't see how any institution I am doing business with has any right to refuse my instructions regarding that business.

I have just closed the account my eftpos card was on, & notified the one supplier, [phone & net supplier] I had an automatic deduction agreement with, that they should in future email me the account. They had better get used to handling my cheques, as I have never had a credit card, & will not have any card until a more equitable system is available.

My lady, having been caught once, has a card on an account with a minor bank, used for net purchases only. The account has little in it, & money is transferred to it to meet purchases when necessary. I may do something like that, but will never put any information on my main bank accounts on the net, ever.

Hi Pericles.

<What is so difficult about that?>

So then, why cant I use an expired card if the expiry date is irrelevant? Surely I could still make purchases with the expired card if my account number is valid? The fact that I cannot do this, yet a merchant can shows that the law is not equitable in this instance.

This is becoming a little surreal, Fester.

>>Surely I could still make purchases with the expired card if my account number is valid?<<

The validity of your account number rests on there being an expiry date later than the date on which you use the card. If you have a replacement card (for the one whose expiry date has passed), that becomes the expiry date relevant for all new transactions.

Your card - and the account behind it - was valid when you signed up with your supplier in the first instance. It is still valid now, albeit with a new expiry date.

The Bank has done you the courtesy of providing continuity, precisely so that standing orders of this type are not interrupted. If they cancelled the card each time an expiry date was reached, this would require you remember all recurring transactions, and go through the hassle of re-applying to the supplier.

This is classic, Hasbeen...

>>I have just closed the account my eftpos card was on, & notified the one supplier, [phone & net supplier] I had an automatic deduction agreement with, that they should in future email me the account. They had better get used to handling my cheques<<

I just hope you have enough goose feathers to sign them with.

Hi Pericles.

<Your card - and the account behind it - was valid when you signed up with your supplier in the first instance. It is still valid now, albeit with a new expiry date.>

The agreement specified a card number and expiry date. The expiry date has not been updated, yet payments continue for nearly three years past that date. I would think that each credit card transaction should be valid in its own right, with a card number and non-lapsed expiry date. This is as much as is required when I myself use it, and the fact that there is an agreement between the card holder and merchant should not alter this requirement, nor be of relevance.

<If they cancelled the card each time an expiry date was reached, this would require you remember all recurring transactions, and go through the hassle of re-applying to the supplier.>

Not so. All I need to do is to update credit card details at a number of websites, hardly time consuming or of much inconvenience. I guess that we just have different perspectives on the issue. Yes, there is quite a bit of the fu factor involved, but I know that my intended actions will achieve what I want them to. It will be a slight hassle to me, but of far more inconvenience to the bank and credit card organisations. Quite frankly, making a request to the merchant in this instance would be undignified.