http://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/latest/a/-/newshome/19030647/labor-attacks-governments-move-to-end-announcements-of-asylum-seeker-boat-arrivals/

This is not wartime. This is a democracy and the people have a right to know how many are arriving and what our government is doing because if bad things happen it will be in our name.

The way government departments leak information I doubt they will have much success in sitting on the numbers that arrive.
I think hide the boats will be as successful as stop the boats.
It is a big problem with amateurs trying to find a solution that suits the politics of the time.
Remove the politics and there may be a chance of an acceptable solution.
Sadly that ain't going to happen.

SD

As much as I don't like Government secrets anymore than the next person, I actually don't have a problem with this one.

If the media rave on about asylum seeker boats arriving on our shores and we watch TV footage of the arrivals happily being taken ashore, then potential leaky boat people and people smugglers will just be spurred on.

I would hate to see any others die at sea trying to reach our shores.
I also hate to see racist people rant and rave about 'illegals attacking our shores', and just revving up all the paranoid 'reds under the beds' brigade.

Suseonline, I understand your point and in some respects I could agree with it. however this government has to be held accountable for policy, or lack of. In opposition Abbott continually peddled the glib one liner "I'll stop the boats" which quickly morphed into "I'll buy the boats" and now its a case of "I'll hide the boats". In international affairs like in so many areas of government Abbott and his incompetent crew are going to prove themselves just that, incompetent, its only a matter of time.
It will be interesting how the conservative faithful on OLO react, when Labor was in power how quick they were to rush in with hysterical clap trap about the governments policy with call of "illegals...the hoards are coming, quick save your children, from these monsters" where are they now? As you say hiding under the bed from the reds.

Abbott has many methods to not tell us things we may not like.
This is both one of them and evidence he intends to deceive us as often as he can.
His stop the boats policy seems to demand we do not know how many come.
A media once content to blast the ALP daily on this issue is content to lift its dress and let him hide under it.

Come on you lot. We've had 6 years of nothing but mayhem & stuff-ups & none of you said anything. The Coalition has been in for two weeks & you expect them to rectify 6 years ? Get real !

Suse,

"If the media rave on about asylum seeker boats arriving on our shores and we watch TV footage of the arrivals happily being taken ashore, then potential leaky boat people and people smugglers will just be spurred on."

Sorry, but that is straight out of the LNP's book of rank hypocrisy.

Are you telling me that Morrison who held a media conference everytime a boat landed, is now requesting to be taken seriously that he's doing this to dissuade smugglers.

He's spent years yelling from the rooftops whenever a boat loomed on the horizon...for political purposes

We all know that it's a strategy to hide the boats to hide the fact they can't just click their fingers and stop the boats. That "stop the boats" was nothing but an election slogan.

Ahem, do the presume that in 2013 that they will able to keep this information "secret"...on an island with civilians with access to social media.

Sham hypocrisy from a sneaky govt....(dumb, but sneaky)

Luciferase,
What you are talking about is useless information really. People have a right to know how many prisoners there are in the local watch-house or how many guns the army has at a particular depot or how many brake shoes the railway ordered for the next year. They have a right to know but they really don't want to know because they couldn't care less.
I am sure that if you really want to know how many boats arrive and when all you would have to do is ring the office of the genersl in charge and they would tell you.

".....I am sure that if you really want to know how many boats arrive and when all you would have to do is ring the office of the genersl in charge and they would tell you."

Ho,ho,ho......

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-23/detention-asylum-seekers-border-control-sovereign/4974016

"Christmas Island's administrator Jon Stanhope says he will have to reconsider his position if told not to speak publicly about boat arrivals."

"However, Mr Stanhope expressed surprise at the Coalition's attempt to effectively gag thousands of people on the issue of boat arrivals.

"I would find it absolutely remarkable that there could be a policy that would seek to prevent 2,000 Australians on Christmas Island talking about what happens here," Mr Stanhope said."

"A former Christmas Island administrator, Brian Lacy, meantime has labelled the decision to only provide weekly updates on asylum seeker arrivals as "puerile."

Mr Lacy says withholding information does not make any impact on the actions of those seeking asylum.

"There's simply no measure of deterrents that we could introduce that will stop these people fleeing the persecution and the brutality of their homeland and braving the elements for a better life in Australia or anywhere else for that matter," he said."

Welcome to "1984" - LNP style.

Poirot, I am not saying it is a good policy, merely that it may dissuade some people from jumping on a leaky boat if they don't hear of other successful boats!

I agree the Coalition aren't doing it for that reason of course, but it surely may help save some lives.....I hope.

The other thing is that it is coming into the start of the cyclone season up north next month, so the boats normally slow down then anyway.
I reckon that's when Abbott will open the lines of communications re boat arrivals.

@Poirot,

<<"A former Christmas Island administrator, Brian Lacy, meantime has labelled the decision to only provide weekly updates on asylum seeker arrivals as "puerile.">>

I'll bet you were up all night on the web looking for that one --great cherry pick!

<<"There's simply no measure of deterrents that we could introduce that will stop these people fleeing the persecution and the brutality of their homeland and braving the elements for a better life in Australia or anywhere else for that matter," he said.">>

Another cherry, from same tree?

Except all thinking people (and I know that kinda leaves you out!) but all thinking people know that the illegals are not RUNNING FROM persecution, they are RUNNING TO(Wards) an affluent lifestyle in a Western country--with lots of freebies

You just have to get over it Poirot, your side lost the election.The people of Oz dont want your dopey open border policies!

Suseonline - Quote "I also hate to see racist people rant and rave about 'illegals attacking our shores', and just revving up all the paranoid 'reds under the beds' brigade."

It amazes me that you still apply the "racist tag" just because people want to protect what they have does not make them racist.

I am sure the same sentiments would be applied by most of the people, even if the boats were full of English, Americans etc.

Economic invaders are a threat to the future of any country, especially ones who do not want to assimilate or respect our laws.

The fact that Australia gives them hundreds of dollars plus loads of things free while Indonesia, Malaysia etc give them nothing is a big factor.

Just like Cuba opened the jails and asylums and put the people on boats to America, any money says a number of these coming are exactly that.

Also how many are foreign agents sent by Iran and other countries.

Yes Belly, I'm sure Murdoch will keep the government honest and accountable, "LNP HIDES TRUE NUMBER OF ILLEGAL ARRIVALS!".

The cloak of secrecy may well extend further. Will we be privy to the logs of RAN ships encountering irregular arrivals or will comprehensive logs be kept at all?

As my country will be judged by its actions, and I am a citizen, I want to know what my government is doing in my name on the high seas and wherever it interact with irregular arrivals.

I am livid at having to have my information siphoned and filtered by Scott Morrison, a rabid member of the most, right-wing, reactionary government we are ever likely see judging by its performance in opposition and its actions to date (including purging senior public servants in its first hours in office).

it's very many years since I first heard (verbally) that "Australia gives them (asylum seekers/refugees/illegal migrants/Aborigines) hundreds of dollars plus loads of things free". One story (ca 1998) was that every refugee was given a house and a car. (Clearly that continuing belief underlies the recent statement by the political candidate that illegal migrants were responsible for the traffic congestion in western Sydney).

Philip S. (or anyone else) - can you provide some evidence for this?

Talk about opportunists, jumping at anything to attack.
To reduce the info to the smugglers they are going to make
announcements on a regular basis as the commander in charge has information.

Just relax for a week or two and see what happens.

SPQR,

You are so full of it.

No cherry pick...I usually check ABC news online in ze morning....well ar'll be darned, an article detailing Morrison's attempted sleight of hand!

Nice to see you're in favour of said hypocrisy.

This guy almost made a daily musical out of boat arrivals. He shouted long and hard every time one arrived.

Now he's the minister responsible, what does he do?

He closes the show.

Pathetic!....but not surprising tthat you think that's just hunkeydorey.

Suse,

It's bullsh!t. It's happening because "stop the boats" was a vacuous slogan - and they can't do it.

What they think they can do is slow down or stop information pertaining to arrivals.

Great stuff from a ragtag team of amateurs...this is only the beginning.

Even their shenanigans are made of crepe paper.

Luciferase,

"I am livid at having to have my information siphoned and filtered by Scott Morrison, a rabid member of the most, right-wing, reactionary government we are ever likely see judging by its performance in opposition and its actions to date (including purging senior public servants in its first hours in office)."

Precisely!

Bazz,

"Talk about opportunists, jumping at anything to attack."

You may think it's fine for the Abbott govt to "attempt" to introduce the first pillar of political censorship.

I have a problem with it.

I suppose you look forward to that sort of behaviour whenever the government deems it necessary (for political purposes)

Hi Philips,

Don't bother with Cossomby's little request: <<Philip S. (or anyone else) - can you provide some evidence for this?>>

It's a common illegal immigration advocates tactic to demand *proof*,then, when it is presented just shrug it off.

Having tried to educate Cossomby before let me tell you no amount of evidence will ever shift her rusted-on views.

For how much longer are we going to have to put up with the most incompetent government since Howard in 2007. Surely they must have been in office for 3 years by now, if not it seems like it. Vote for Albo he has the answers particularly his rock solid policy of "I'll stop the boats." LOL.

Note to Graham.

The lefty garbage on threads like this is so puerile, it is making OLO hardly worth reading. I know you don't delete comment other than for abuse, but some of this stuff is abusing all intelligence.

OK, so they are only demeaning themselves with this stuff, but it does get so boring. It is rather like listening to a bunch of undergrads being smart, so I guess it will continue until they grow up, & that looks like being a long way from now.

Note to Hasbeen.

"Lefties" make up around 10 percent of OLO's contributors.

Mostly right-wingers here, so much so that people like me spend most of their time elsewhere these days.

Except when one notes a relevant thread like this...relevant that is to the dodgy tactics and transparent attempts at trickery by the new govt.

Unfortunately, for you, Abbott and his merry band of incompetents are set to provide a lot of fodder for criticism.

Lucyface,

Is there any indication that the information in the weekly briefing will any less accurate than the daily briefings of the Labor government?

Under the pacific solution roughly 2-3 boats arrived a year. Would daily briefings still be necessary?

The people do have a right to know, but do they have a right to know everything instantly? Are the left whingers addicted to the 24hr news cycle that made the last 6 years such a circus? Perhaps they would prefer hourly briefings?

Already the boat arrivals are half what they were under Juliar and Dudd, 8 in 16 days.

Oh, looky here...

More censorship looming:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-23/moves-to-stop-green-makret-boycott-campaigns-a-27threat-to-fre/4974784

And just in case SPQR accuses me of cherry-picking, here's the same issue from Murdoch's rag, The Australian:

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/companies-to-get-protection-from-activists-boycotts/story-fn59niix-1226724817535

Well, goody...I wonder what's up next for censorship

"Is there any indication that the information in the weekly briefing will any less accurate than the daily briefings of the Labor government?"

Really? so why is the LNP doing it?

"Already the boat arrivals are half what they were under Juliar and Dudd, 8 in 16 days."

Before the election just over a week ago fewer arrivals was due to the weather, according to your mob, but now it's not? Perhaps PNG is working, not that you'd ever give it credit, Shal.

Poirot and others,
If the Christmas Island Administrator (I suppose that is upspeak for prison warden) isn't happy with his Minister running the show wouldn't it be the right thing to resign and leave his cushy salary and perks behind.
The government was elected to govern and it seems to me that we all, that is all, must fall in line and cop whatever happens until the next election when you get to have your say again.
Whatever Abbott does is his prerogative given to him by the majority of the population.
At least in this country those that voted for the other side get to stay alive and in the mix not like a lot of other left wing countries. It is called democracy.
You blokes lost the election. Cop is like men and move on. You will get another chance but I can tell you this from the inside by the time the next chance comes around the methodology for voting will be so changed minorities will have no say in the outcome and the Labor Party will never again be the government.

>>Also how many are foreign agents sent by Iran and other countries.<<

Let's just think about that one for a second: what foreign power is going to take their expensive, highly trained, difficult-to-replace intelligence operatives and stick them on some leaky boat to either drown on the high seas or get locked up indefinitely in detention while extensive security checks are performed, when they could take the far simpler and more practical option of providing them with false documents and sticking them on a plane?

Yeah, that sounds incredibly plausible. Your fear of boat people has obviously grown so disproportionate to the threat they actually pose that it has overwhelmed your ability to think rationally. Calm down, take a deep breath, go for a long a walk and stop reading the Tele.

>>It's a common illegal immigration advocates tactic to demand *proof*,then, when it is presented just shrug it off.<<

It's a common and very transparent tactic of people who invent their evidence as they go along - or accept it on hearsay from people with the same prejudices as themselves - to provide some spurious and far-fetched reason as to why they can't produce any data instead of just admitting they haven't got any.

I don't know why they haven't got any. It's not hard to find:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2012-2013/AustGovAssistRefugees

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/98services.htm

>>The lefty garbage on threads like this is so puerile, it is making OLO hardly worth reading. I know you don't delete comment other than for abuse, but some of this stuff is abusing all intelligence.<<

If left-leaning discussions are puerile and abusive of intelligence, what on earth can you say about comments that don't try to advance the discussion, challenge the substance of anybody's arguments or offer any insight or wit? Comments which merely consist of some whiny sook's bunch of sour grapes because not everyone agrees with him about everything.

Cheers,

Tony

Tony Lavis what a self centered heap of male cow dung!
Are you saying only your views and those that share them should post here.
Cr&p!
Right now the Minister who once demanded daily updates on boat arrivals is telling us he will not give them.
The week old government is on the nose.
And that will be seen to be true in just months.

Before the election just over a week ago fewer arrivals was due to the weather, according to your mob, but now it's not?
Luciferase,
That's precisely how it it is. We've got 5-10 kn winds whereas there were 30 kn average a month ago.
The dinghies are on the move again along the south coast of PNG but the $3.-litre fuel price is dampening the show.

Good grief, Indy, it takes time to get here too. Let go of it occasionally.

I object to boats being turned back by naval force, always have, always will. "Processing" asylum claims on the open ocean is not what Australians want, I believe, regardless of who won the election.

Lucyface,

For nearly a decade before the labor disaster, the coalition had weekly briefings on border protection. This only changed when Labor stuffed it up and the boats became coming on a daily basis.

The coalition is returning the situation to normality.

I'm sure that if the papers want to comment on the boats on a daily basis the news will be available from a variety of sources, the commentary from the government will only be once a week.

As for making the greens and other fringe groups comply with the same regulations we all do is about time.

those who cheered the last Government's fiasco obviously have no shame when raving on about the two week old Government. They would need to be in for 30 years to create such a mess.

"I'm sure that if the papers want to comment on the boats on a daily basis the news will be available from a variety of sources, the commentary from the government will only be once a week."

That's a retreat. How does this sit with Morrison's statement that the Government will manage the information in a way that supports the success of Operation Sovereign Borders?

Is there some way in which the status quo fails to supports the success of Operation Sovereign Borders?

As we know, Shal, you'd be the first to howl in indignation if a Labor Gov't ever tried to pull this shenanigan.

From http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/christmas-island-residents-will-tell-the-world-about-asylum-seeker-arrivals-union-leader-20130923-2u8se.html : "...But General Campbell said he had ‘‘absolute respect’’ for the need of the Australian people to be aware of what was occurring, balanced against the need to protect personnel performing operational duties.

Is this wartime? How were personal ever in danger and why would they be now by simply by maintaining the status quo? Sounds like that hoary old out, "commercial confidentiality", to me.

Poirot, you are pathetic !

Seems there it not a tactical brain amongst the lot of you.
Don't you think they may be trying to hide the location of the ships involved ?

First rule of interception; hide your own location !

Cossomby - You read too much into these words "plus loads of things free" it means free legal, medical, dental and other services they get also things from the charities which the taxpayer ends up paying for.

To quote you "every refugee was given a house and a car." That is false and I don't believe anyone on this thread has said that.

Hasbeen - I am sorry I twisted your arm and made you read this thread, to the point you had to post a comment to Graham.

Everyone PLEASE stop forcing Hasbeen to read things he does not want to.

Tony Lavis - Can you absolutely rule out that as a tactic?

Luciferase - The majority of Australian want them STOPPED. Full stop.
They don't want them here Economic Invaders.
Why do you think Labor and the Greens lost so much in the election.
Refugees were the 2nd most important deciding factor according to polls

Quote "Scott Morrison says the Government does not plan to publicly reveal when or if any asylum seeker boats are turned around"

This I don't like because if they turn them around and publicize it other may say it is not worth going on the boat, but if they don't say anything the smugglers can just say they are not turning any boats back.

I would video tape it and post it on the news to show we are serious.

They can never turn any boats back and we will not know, but they can say we are turning them back.

Je ne suis pas Poirot.

ROFL. Who's the hunter and who's the hunted, Bazz, and what's the number of arrivals got to do with anything?

Philip S, it's you being kept a mushroom, not the smugglers.

Philip S,
In my street a house was renovated to a high standard. New high security fences and the place landscaped. We all thought it was going on the market and would give us an insight into the value of our own homes. How wrong were we.
New tenants arrived. We later found that they were Afghans. There was a father and mother, grand mother x 2 grandfather,1 15 year old girl with one child and pregnant 1 boy about 18 and 4 other children from 2 up to about 10.
They were accompanied by officers from the housing department and an organization called Settlement Services.
Within 2 days the housed was completely fitted out with ne high end furniture right up to huge flat screen TV and surround sound music systems.
The whole family was fitted out with Nike and Adidas clothing and the kids given new bikes.
Within a week the family had a new Toyota people mover mini bus and the boy an after market Honda Sports car.
Apparently they dispensed with the need for these people to have license tests like the ordinary Australian.
When some of the locals started to question the free gifts they were told to mind their own business the gifts were from Settlement Services and not the government.
The fact that Settlement Services is funded by the government is lost in the semantics of the situation.
So Philip S please don't say these refugees do it tough.
Within a month the boy had teamed up with other Afghan kids and they were roaming the streets at night armed with cane knives.
Inside 12 months the complaints were so loud about the unfairness when there were pensioners starving in the same street the department moved them overnight to another city.

Bazz,

"Poirot, you are pathetic !

Seems there it not a tactical brain amongst the lot of you.
Don't you think they may be trying to hide the location of the ships involved ?

First rule of interception; hide your own location !"

Care to explain why Morrison yodelled long and loud from the rooftops every time a boat arrived?

Care to explain why he made a career of bringing attention to boat arrivals...and now seeks to suppress information about them?

Could it be that now he is the minister responsible, and having no strategy to "stop the boats" (despite using it as propaganda to grab votes from naive voters) the only tactic he can come up with is to censor and/or control information pertaining to arrivals?

First rule of a shifty government; hide your intentions.

This development is not surprising - just a return to their old form.

Downer once admitted on ABC Radio that the boats didn't actually stop under Howard - they kept coming but some were turned around and the information was deliberately kept from the press to make it seem that they had stopped.

It's also not an invasion by a hostile force that warrants military intelligence but considering that the purpose of conservative politicians is to keep people alarmed, again they are back on track.

Abbott also promised that he would spend his first week as PM in aboriginal territory - a lie?

Now they have set the ground rules for opposition - they can cop what they have been dishing out for the last 6 years.

Lucese said;
ROFL. Who's the hunter and who's the hunted, Bazz, and what's the number of arrivals got to do with anything?

Don't understand what this is about, what are you saying ?

Poirot asked;
Care to explain why Morrison yodelled long and loud from the rooftops every time a boat arrived?

Because he did not understand what was happening.
He has now employed an officer with tactical knowledge to manage that sort of thing.

It is the difference between professionals and amateurs.

Seems there is not a tactical brain amongst the lot of you.
Bazz,
Unfortunately you're right with that assertion. That's why Australia has been invaded at it's own expense without an angry shot. I mean how do minds like that actually think ? I for one can not fathom why I'd wish for the country that put me up to be ruined finically & socially & have its security jeopardised only to get some perverse satisfaction of seeing myself & my fellow citizens facing being under the yoke of some superstitious backward.
Being left should not be interpreted as being stupid, but they do.

chrisgaff1000 - To quote you "So Philip S please don't say these refugees do it tough." Please be so kind as to show me where I have stated or implied that.

Personally if you read what I have written on the subject, I say give them what the UN do a tent some food and nothing else that will stop most of them.

If what you say above was true I would have taken lots of photos and plastered it all over the internet and given it to newspapers anything that would listen.

The tories started the "boat people' dog whistle for base political purposes and now they are stopping blowing the dog whistle for base political purposes. The lieberals are consummate manipulators and conmen Ill give them that.

Bazz, I asked "Who's the hunter and who's the hunted.." in response to your first rule of interception; hide your own location. The boats aren't exactly running away from the RAN, after all, their aim is to engage.

Not only are we not to know anything of arrivals, we are now not to know of turn-backs or their results. I want to know what our government is doing in our name, not treated as a mushroom.

Has Australia voted for its dirty work to be done out of sight and out of mind? I hope not, or do I despair of my countrymen?

I initially tried to start this thread with a reference to the German people and what they knew of the actions of the Nazi-party in their name, but it was rejected. Each time I hear Morrison tell me I must not know anything other than what he feels I deserve to know, I am reminded of what I have read of history. I'm mad as hell about it and we should all be.

Philip S
Oh it's true all right.
<If what you say above was true I would have taken lots of photos and plastered it all over the internet and given it to newspapers anything that would listen.>
Unfortunately to take such action is a federal offence.

What would Tony Abbott, his press Baron partner in true Crime.
Every media out let have said if.
IF the ALP government tried to hide its successes and failures behind a wall of lies and deception.
A black wall as strong as the Iron curtain made up of lies and deception has taken the place of good government in this country.

I can not believe this new governments naivety on foreign affairs. Particularly statements being made about asylum seekers involving Indonesia. Julie Bishop has been running around making foreign policy statement that dictate to Indonesia with no dialog, rather saying what will be so.
"It will make Indonesia-Australia relations sour because, of course, Indonesia will not readily accept what is proposed by Australia," Professor Juwana of the University of Indonesia said.

Do the conservatives think we still live in a 19th century world of colonialism where the white man dictates to the brown man, and if he doesn't comply he will feel the thrust of cold steel.

Would Abbott and his ministers dare to dictate to the Americans in such a cavalier fashion when it comes to matters of foreign policy. I think not, rather they will play the part of the subservient lap dog.

Luciferase, I now understand your question.
It is simple really, they do not want to be intercepted too soon.
They will need to avoid that.

Indonesia will not readily accept what is proposed by Australia,"
Paul1405,
Oh I see. Australia should then just accept all the boats coming here & that's that. Try take one boat from Australia without documents to Indonesia & see how you'll go. Actually it might be a good idea to give all the do-gooders a boat & send them to Indonesia without documents, sort of like the boats Indonesia has no qualms sending here.

Bazz,

I asked you:

"Care to explain why Morrison yodelled long and loud from the rooftops every time a boat arrived?"

You replied:

"Because he did not understand what was happening."

That is the single most pathetic and naive response I've ever received on OLO.

Congratulations!

I agree Poirot, lol!
I thought I was the only one who found that comment funny.

Individual, why on earth do you keep going on about 'do-gooders' (aka academics, bureaucrats, feminists, all women)?

I'm assuming then that yourself, and all those you agree with, are bad then?

Certainly, the current measures being put in to 'stop the boats' are bad, so no wonder you are happy with them.

Suseonline,
What would be your solution then to the boats ?

I am delighted to see all the illegals advocates upset and frothing at the mouth because the new government has started action to stop them wanting to come here.

OK, they now have been told that they WILL NOT get what they want and information that may assist them will be limited. Next will they confiscate the mobile phones and PCs? Or will they be monitored to find out who their contacts are here and in Indonesia. Maybe laws relating to assisting illegal entrants. No legal aid and no appeals.

All good stuff. I can only suggest a detention centre on Macquarie Island. If we are fair dinkum, the potential illegal entrants will not want to come here. Why bother if there is nothing to be gained.

Australia is perfectly aware that turning the boats around is unpopular in Indonesia, while Indonesia is perfectly aware that Australia has right to stop the illegal boats, turn them around and tow them back to the limits of Indonesian territorial waters.

The situation is exactly as it was in 2001 when Howard started turning the boats back. Indonesia publicly rejected the turning back of boats, but discretely assisted the process.

As with Police matters where the public does not question the need not to reveal all details immediately, the releasing of information after tow backs are complete will thwart those from the lunatic fringe that would like to use megaphones to sabotage the process.

SM,

What a larf!

Didn't see you criticising Morrison for his regular and loud megaphone media conferences, etc. whenever a boat arrived while he was in Opposition.

Hypocrites unite!

(should start yerself a new party)

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/people-smuggler-ridicules-scott-morrisons-silence-on-boat-arrivals-20130924-2ub2z.html

The attempt at suppression isn't for the smugglers - it's designed for domestic digestion...well, der!

What a bunch of stupid incompetents this govt is starting out as.

As if they can keep that stuff hushed up.

Lol!

This cartoon:

https://twitter.com/Jackasouras/status/382341025596833793/photo/1

Morrison in foreground of ocean, boats, says:

"If you want a daily commentary on arrivals....You'll have to wait until we're back in Opposition."

(Double Lol!)

P,

Next time I'll use small words as this clearly is above your head.

With several boats arriving a day, there is no way that Scott Morrison had a news conference for each boat, and the ones he had were to highlight the incompetence of the Labor government every couple of thousand new arrivals or each time Labor killed another illegal boat load of asylum seekers.

Scott Morrison's actions were to damage the labor government who were desperately trying to pretend that there was no problem. What Labor and some lunatic fringe greens would love to do would be to embarrass the Indonesians and make the tow backs more difficult, which is clearly not in the interests of Australia, or the protection of boat people.

With the tow backs and hand overs taking several days, a delay of a week would leave these nut jobs with only old news.

SM,

"With several boats arriving a day, there is no way that Scott Morrison had a news conference for each boat, and the ones he had were to highlight the incompetence of the Labor government every couple of thousand new arrivals or each time Labor killed another illegal boat load of asylum seekers."

Pure bunkum!

Spin it any way you like...

Morrison's a hypocrite.

This govt are hypocrites.

And so are you.

after a decade of 'we are the compassionate ones'you would think the left would of shrivelled up in shame after 1100 plus drownings. No instead they can't help pushing their hatred that exposes the idiotic decisions they supported for so long. After less than a week in Government here they are at it again. Try just try working out why you lost the election guys. Oh that's right we didn't lose the unelectable Mr Abbott won it.

The fact that people like Poirot are so annoyed shows that the managing of the boat arrivals news is effective.

Both the people smugglers and their illegal immigration advocate allies draw much of their oxygen from the constant publicity around boat arrivals.

Keep them guessing,and besides, Poirot can get by doing what she has always done: making it up as she goes along.

Parrot,

Another hissy fit!

How can the government be hypocrites when they are doing exactly what they said they would. You are simply resorting to name calling because you have nothing else.

Hypocrite!

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3733408.htm :

"SCOTT MORRISON, SHADOW MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION The locals in Geraldton - The Labor's border protection failures literally came to their harbor this afternoon, and I think that's emblematic of the state of chaos and state of failure that we've seen from this government on our borders. I mean, just how bad does it have to get? Now there'll be a range of issues that will have to be worked through here: How people will be received, where they'll be quarantined, the issues of immigration, where people may be transferred to, what their likely destination may have been. We understand there are reports that they were seeking to go to New Zealand. That is unlikely to occur now."

This instance was supposed to be symptomatic of Labor failure when it suited Morrison but he failed to mention that similar instances happened under the "Pacific Solution".

From Shallow Minister: "...each time Labor killed another illegal boat load of asylum seekers." Due to LNP & Green stymying opposition to Labor's chosen solution, any "killing" (gawd, let go of your tool occassionally, SM) is on their hands. At least the Greens thought they were on a principled stand, whereas the LNP was always about politics first, and last.

"Scott Morrison's actions were to damage the labor government who were desperately trying to pretend that there was no problem." No, Labor was desperately seeking a solution to an acknowledged problem that was being stymied by the LNP position that it had to its way or the highway. Now it hypocritically talks about mandates.

Gee Poirot the Minister for Nasty comment has you in his sights, keep up the good work he must fear you.
And remember if this lot can be so deceitful in just two weeks what will they look like in two months.
A report from the front line.
ALP has not seen so many new and committed members ever before.
Pages set up to hold local coalition members to account, feel free to start one.
Bob watch is my local, not yet running but passing between very active members.
You never know just maybe we can find out how many boats arrive, oh yes forgot it is being done right now, watch this very secrete space.

This thread offers 63 responses, 37 from lefties but nothing new, just the peddling of the same old opinion of others and groupthink. Why do the 37 of 63 present the dysfunctional defeated ideology of the left so disproportionately?

It seems that there is nothing like a good flogging in an election to convince the losers that they are even more right?

Having just returned from three weeks in Canada, I could be forgiven for thinking that the ALP, PC, Post modernist deconstruction, warmers, the commentariat, the ABC, progressive media and left wing OLO contributors had just avoided a wipeout election defeat.

GY, for pities sake, get the balance right, you are killing OLO. Australia has spoken, stop pi**ing us off

SPQR,

Not annoyed....absolutely intrigued that you and your cohort here defend Morrison's hypocrisy.

No surprising, but I did hope there may be one redeeming feature amongst the disingenuous guff from you lot.

Not so.

Not surprised.

SM,

"How can the government be hypocrites when they are doing exactly what they said they would..... "

I have no recollection of Morrison telling us pre-election that he would descend into gross hypocrisy. Perhaps people like you just expect the worst behaviour from those you support - and therefore don't bat an eyelid at such hypocrisy.

I mean to say...that's the sort of guy Morrison is - right?

And you're right behind him...great stuff and all that.

Right?

Farcical.

Lucyface,

Under the Pacific solution there were about 16 boats in the 6 years, and each time a boat arrived, labor would hold a press conference to say that the pacific solution had failed. When Labor was having 16 boats a month arriving Bowen / Rudd / Juliar should have been horse whipped outside parliament house.

The coalition does have principles, they include Australia having control of immigration not human traffickers, and not killing nearly 2000 people at sea. The Green's policy of letting people drown, but feeling sorry for them when appropriate is despicable.

The coalition is now doing exactly what it said it would do. TPVs, offshore processing and getting ready to turn the boats around, instead of the morally bankrupt labor that did exactly what it promised not to.

Dear LuciferArse,

Sometimes it is entirely appropriate for you to read what you write, and this is one of those instances.

You and your supporters demonstrate a lack of understanding of real issues that defy even gravity.

I cannot understand why such dysfunctional thinking is registered as an acceptable mark of the failure of modern education. We have failed you and for this we are truly sorry.

You do not comprehend reality; you rely on Google and the millions of conspiracy web sites rather than social values and fact. What did your parents do to make you so negative? Why did you reject the social norms of family values? What made you so reactionary? Why do you need to challenge those who actually understand your dilemma? What have we done to create such aberrations of society as you?

You are not on your own of course. There are so many, who gave you the voice of the freedom of speech that you so despise? Who gave you the accesses to the information that that you distort as knowledge? Who gave you the freedom to express your opinion and now abuse as your right to be right? Why are you incapable of forming your own opinion and have to rely upon and adopt the opinion of others? What a sad indictment of the modern society you represent.

I ask these questions because we, as a society, need to understand how and why we have failed your generation. I don’t lay blame however, many of the thinkers in today’s world of adults and realists are at a loss to understand why your generation got so screwed up.

I’m sure that your response to this post will be more of the “mantra” to which you subscribe, it will be short, abusive, disconnected from reality, reactionary, socialist and the proselytized opinion of others. Your response will of course, prove me wrong?

Over to you

Lefties and righties,
Do you really think that the average Australian beset with the rigors of keeping house and home together in the face of rising living costs and diminishing incomes really cares about who or how many drown trying to get here where they can add to the existing non earning pressures.
I don't care if people take disproportionate risks on open waters in leaky boats and they sink and they happen to drown.
What I do care about is the stupid UN convention that says we have to spend a fortune rescuing them and giving the medical aid and probably burying the dead we find.
Can they get travel insurance.
I don't care if their country is torn apart by civil war. They should fight on the side they believe in and not run away like cowards in the face of war. I am bloody sure that real Australians would pick up whatever they could to protect this country and, I might add,along the way protect all those Muslim immigrants that are already here
I am also very bloody sure I didn't fight three f--**__g wars to see the place overrun by people who care only about themselves.

chrisgaff1000,
Even the Prime Minister of Kenya called these people cowards yet our resident morons want open doors for them to overrun us. The Kenyans are fighting back unlike our morons who want these terrorists to keep on sending so-called refugees to these shores.

The Monash Australian Border Deaths Database documents 746 reported deaths of asylum seekers between 2000 and 2007 (under Liberal/Nats).

Of those, 363 died at sea while on their way to Australia and a further 350 were presumed dead missing at sea. Of the rest, 22 died in detention and 11 were returned to Afghanistan - and reportedly murdered for being “Australian spies”.

Between 2008 and July 2013 (under Labor) 877 asylum seekers died. Of those, 15 died in detention centres. So during this period, 862 individuals died trying to reach Australia’s mainland by boat to seek asylum.

Therefore, the best official figure to mid 2013 since Labor took office, is just under 900 deaths, and during the Howard years just under 800 deaths.

The Liberal led Opposition thwarted all attempts by the Labor Government to find a satisfactory way to prevent people traveling by boat. Indeed, one could argue that the Coalition Opposition in fact encouraged it by inducing the government to re-open Nauru for their own political gain/game.

Deaths at sea is a tragedy that has occurred under both political parties - not just under the Labor government that OLO's 'Shadow Minister' or the Murdoch spin would have you believe - especially since 90% of asylum seekers who arrive by boat have been found to be genuine refugees.

My take, people should do their own research, from reliable and credible sources. Sadly, most people don’t have the time, capacity nor the will – particularly if it means going against what they want to believe.

In fact, some people deliberately lie or distort the truth for their own political games, as we see here from a shadow in his own mind.

Personally I wouldn't believe a word that came from a leftist university like Monash.
Why would they keep these figure if not to stir the pot.

I wish some of you posters would just admit that behind all the faux outrage it's little more than simply hating the "ragheads".

No matter how it's dressed up - immigration, integration, intolerance - it's the same old arguments and half-truths that the shock-jocks like to vomit over the airwaves to keep listeners angry and buying stuff to fill the emptiness in their lives.

You really don't care if they drown or not, as long as they do it in the mediterranean and not in our back yard and it's the hypocritical evangelical self-righteous zealots that are worst of all.

All that's changed is that it's officially being made to look like a sinister invasion war fleet is on the horizon and only the government can save us.

It's a "big secret" but weeks ago Morrison was happily broadcasting refugee numbers on the back of a truck.

Treat the cause, not the symptom.

At least Serco is making some money out of it and probably laughing all the way to the bank.

Well spotted chrisgaff1000,

Ozdoc's little site is another illegal immigration propaganda group.
Check out their topics of interest--everyone of them pet advocacy issues.

on a related front. I noted that the Kenyans are talking about Somalis of US origin taking part the latest Al-Shabaab massacre.

It would not be the first time. We have already had instances of Somali "refugees" -after having secured there meal tickets in OZ -suddenly discovering their fundamentalist roots , and taking furlo to return to fight with Al-Shabaab.

Hey Ozdoc, does your database have any stats on that sought of thing?:
Betya they don't --that's not the sort of thing they (or you)would want to talk about!

Dear spindoc,

Upon reading your diatribe I thought of an immediate short, abusive, disconnected from reality, reactionary, socialist and proselytizing response.

Then I thought, nah, you can choose a response from http://www.soundsnap.com/tags/raspberry

Geez, you've written some drivel today. Perhaps it's jet lag or you left you brain in lost luggage? What a tosser.

ozdoc,

Thanks for your post.

Unfortunately there's not much here except abuse and bigoted responses.
(The highlight of their intellect appears to be a penchant to altering poster's monikers - schoolkid style)

spindoc,

"There are so many, who gave you the voice of the freedom of speech that you so despise? Who gave you the accesses to the information that that you distort as knowledge? Who gave you the freedom to express your opinion and now abuse as your right to be right?..."

How monumentally ironic!

Morrison now seeks to suppress information and construct an edifice of censorship - and you wax lyrical about freedom of speech, opinion and knowledge.

What a joke.

rache,

Good post.

Luciferase <"...(gawd, let go of your tool occassionally, SM)...
ROFL :)
This thread has given me several good laughs.

Individual asked me what I would do to stop the boats.
Like everyone else, I don't have all the answers.

I do like temporary protection visas, but I don't like 'turning back the boats", as I believe the boats will be in no condition to be towed back.
How will towing leaky boats back to Indonesian waters and then leaving them to sink there, save any lives?
We need to stop them leaving Indonesia in leaky boats in the first place... perhaps arranging for them to be checked for refugee status in Indonesia by Australian officials.

I agree with Rache that most posters on this thread are simply worried about a perceived 'invasion' by non-European immigrants, and couldn't give a stuff about the '1600' or '2000' or whatever other hysterical made-up figure of deaths at sea they can come up with.

The fact is we will never really know how many have drowned because we probably don't know the true figures of how many boats actually did set out for Australia.

With the Monsoon season nearly upon us, there will naturally be far less boats from October on, so we shouldn't get too excited.

Suseonline
It doesn't matter how many have drowned, who really cares? Only those making money out of it. They choose to take the risk, they pay the price. I don't care and yes I would rather be in my local Coles with a couple of hundred good white Australians than be surrounded by a crowd of Islamic who knows what.

We need to stop them leaving Indonesia in leaky boats in the first place..
Suseonline,
I'd go one earlier, don't make these people refugees in the first place. The problem is though that those who think they're doing good will fight tooth & nail not to help those people from becoming refugees by way of sending in forces. Instead they force many to their death by having them go on leaky boats. I am convinced that this is also a situation exploited by those with an agenda to come to Australia under the pretence of being refugees.
As you have admitted you don't have a solution I suggest you listen to others & refrain from criticising them for thinking of solutions. My idea is if these countries don't stop from sending their people here we need to go there & stop them. It is up to us from preventing them to get to Indonesia as refugees in the first place.

Do you think the refugees own countries send them here Individual?
Why would you say that?
Scared they are all terrorists because they aren't white?

What about the white British woman involved in the latest Kenyan shopping centre shootings? And she wasn't the only one...

I would imagine that only really scared or persecuted people would risk death by coming here on those boats ,especially those who bring their children with them.
If you were planning on coming to a country to take part in terrorist acts, would you bring your family with you?

Do you think that the hard-arse immigration staff would declare most of the boat people as genuine refugees if they weren't?
Have you seen what people have to go through to become genuine refugees?
It isn't easy...

Don't bother, Suse.

individual and his cronies aren't interested in examining why people risk their lives to flee - or any sort of reality pertaining to displacement.

They are cosy in their ideological bunker, feeding in their frenzy on fear and hysteria.

Happy rolling in the stench of their ignorance and lack of compassion.

i say good luck to the Libs. They promised to stop the boats. They put it to the people and the people voted them in, and they voted the ALP out. The ALP had 6 years and clearly failed. We need to give the Libs a little time. They look like they are taking it vary seriously. I would be very suprised if the flow of boats was not substantially reduced within 1 month ( on top of any seasonal adjustment).
Go Tony, Good job so far. Maybe we can use some of that hard earned tax dollars to help our own poor and homeless.

Since Suzi has played the race card --one of her favourite tactics

Let's have a look at the white woman "suspected" of being involved.

She is the wife of: " Germaine Lindsay, who blew himself up on a London Underground train on July 7, 2005, killing 26 people."
who incidentally was born in Jamaica and emigrated to the UK --big open hearten UK.

"Lindsay's wife... denied his involvement until authorities produced forensic evidence to confirm his identity. She later went on record stating she abhorred the attacks and that her husband's mind had been poisoned by radicals"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_Lindsay

"She later went on record stating she abhorred the attacks"

"She later went on record stating she abhorred the attacks"

"She later went on record stating she abhorred the attacks"

Almost as credible as the Somalian "refugees" who tell Oz or the USA they are fleeing Al-Shabaab!

http://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/19091521/come-clean-over-raids-bowen-urges-barry/
One could be forgiven for thinking many things are being kept secret not just federally but nation wide.
Any honest, that word matters, review of both those who are under a cloud and those who have left state governments from within the *Australian Secret Government*
And it state pups can be seen .
A brand new policy? no just the normal tell them nothing its our ball if they do not want to play by our rules go away.

Unfortunate some on here have taken an anti refugee stance through fear and ignorance of the plight of these people and the problems in the world that cause people to become refugee's. Such people are basically good, but live in a world of fear through ignorance.
To help the unfortunate who are ignorant of the problems of refugee's below is a link to Amnesty International Australia. Amnesty is an organisation doing what it can to help the less fortunate in our world. Maybe if you become involved you would free yourselves of the shackles of fear and ignorance and start to feel good about yourself.

http://www.amnesty.org.au/

As for those that are genuine haters of others who are different, there is nothing I can offer, you will have to continue to stew in the juice of fear and hatred. I'm genuinely sorry for such pathetic excuses for human beings.

A brief history of Scott Morrison.

http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=38232#.UkIFrmeVogJ

Why would you say that?
Suseonline,
You had me fooled for a long time, I didn't realise you were a racist. It all is agenda based & I'm starting to think you're part of it. Why else would you so eagerly support this conspiracy ?

Poirot,
Wouldn't it be great if the cartoonist were right & the boats would stop ? Wouldn't it be great if there were no more refugees ? But you need refugees don't you to bleat your case. Never mind that some of them are real refugees as long as it supports your idealism, eh ?

JOKE OF THE DAY

This is Paul1405 --on line one:
<<As for those that are genuine haters of others who are different>>

Ah, so it seems Paul1405 is arguing that we should tolerate/accept difference...?

BUT, this is that same the Paul1405 -- a little further along in the same post:

<<[let them] stew in the juice of fear and hatred>>
<< I'm genuinely sorry for such pathetic excuses for human beings>>

WOW, yes, Paul you set a good example!

Difference is Ok as long as it sides with you!

ROFL

SPQR, I can clearly see which group you fall into. Can't you tolerate difference? Do you want us all marching around in the same uniform, saluting the same leader, all harboring the same hatreds of others we perceive as different.
SPQR as for the genuine haters, I wish there was something I could offer, but unfortunately short of telling them to join National Action and worship Jim Saleam there is not much to offer them, maybe this link will give them some comfort.

http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?tag=jim-saleam

Good to see the illegal advocates in a frenzy. Shows they can see the new government is serious.

Some are even bringing out the race card which again shows how little they have to argue with. They simply will not accept that the illegals are con artists who lie and bribe their way here. The truth is they are criminals who gate crash our country. It has been easy to be a refugee, just turn up here without any docs and bull our officials. Proper refugees would rock up to the front door and present their docs for scrutiny. That is now changed.

Hope the government gets even tougher, we do not like to be taken in by shonks. I look forward to further announcements of other measures to deter the illegals.

individual,

"Poirot,
Wouldn't it be great if the cartoonist were right & the boats would stop ?"

Ahem...that's not what the cartoonist was saying.

The cartoonist was highlighting Morrison's hypocrisy.

Morrison is not going to stop the boats.

Morrison is angling to gag people reporting the arrivals or turn arounds, now that he's the minister responsible.

That he made the biggest din every time a boat arrived while he was in Opposition seems to escape you odd-bods around here.

Here's Bishop utterly failing in her diplomacy skills with Indonesia.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/indonesia-voices-concerns-about-coalitions-boats-policy-loud-and-clear-20130925-2ucuz.html

P et al,

What I always find amusing is that the same left whingers that in 2008 steadfastly predicted that refugee numbers were almost entirely driven by push factors, and that Dudd's removal of the Pacific solution might lead to only a small increase in numbers, desperately tried to pretend that the huge increase in 2009/10 was due to external wars in Sri Lanka and Afghanistan (that had been occurring for years) and were forced to eat crow, are now the same wind bags claiming that the solutions that reduced boat arrivals from 4000 p.a. to 100 p.a. in a year won't work.

Sorry guys, but having been wrong with just about every prediction so far, your credibility is zero. It is time for adults to clean up your mess.

Banjo <"They simply will not accept that the illegals are con artists who lie and bribe their way here. The truth is they are criminals who gate crash our country."

Really?
What proof do you have that the "illegals' are con artists or criminals?
Do you think the immigration department officials are fools?
Seen as you seem to have inside knowledge, maybe you should ring them with details.

The truth is that they have to work within the international and national refugee laws.
The Government sees fit to keep the results secret at present, and I know which crowd lies the most...

>>Some are even bringing out the race card which again shows how little they have to argue with.<<

Like this you mean?

>>yes I would rather be in my local Coles with a couple of hundred good white Australians<<

I can only shake my head and wonder what the hell is wrong with people like that.

Cheers,

Tony

Poirot,
I know full well what the cartoonist was saying. I merely retorted with exposing your hypocrisy which constantly evolves around weak attempts to ridicule others yet never once offering a solution.

Do you think the immigration department officials are fools?
Suseonline,
No, but the previous federal Government & all it's supporters were & now we're faced with sorting out those fools' mess.

Susie,
You have been around OLO long enough to know it has all been established years ago,(well before the Tampa incident), that the illegals were flying to Malaysia and then by boat to Indonesia. Either on false docs and bribing officials. Then paying far, far more than the commercial fare to gate crash Aus. They destroy their docs they have used thus far and are coached on what to tell our immigration officials. It is too difficult to check their stories in detail so they are let in and there is difficulty in establishing their person identities. You well know all this so don't try and make out it is something new. No bona fide person would pay far more to go on a leaky boat when they can fly directly to Aus from Malaysia.

It is all a con and you know it, we are being duped.

Tony, I noticed that rache, Paul and Susie are now maintaining anyone objecting to the illegals are racist. If they were Poms I would object as well and I also think we let Kiwis in too easily.

So much for a "no surprises government."
So far it's been full of surprises and the
score settling has been unashamed. Targets
have been thus far:
senior public servants, scientists, climate
change bodies, public health agencies, the board
of the National Broadband Network, academic researchers,
and the list goes on. We're going to see bitter
battles over culture, the humanities and science.
Hang onto your seat belts folks it's going to be a
bumpy ride.

Foxy,

You are silent on the policy backflips of the two hopefuls for the Labor leadership.

That is different you would assert.

Still, it must be comforting to believe that all of the good people are on one side of politics and the other is devoid of talent, principle and concern for what sort of Australia will be inherited by our grandchildren.

But wait a bit, the culturally cringing Left don't believe that young Aussie couples should be having children.

They say that Australia should throw open the gates to 'solve' the population problems of the Third World. It is all part of the diversity-we-have-to-have. That policy has been rejected by the electorate, but the Left still want to foist it on an unwilling public come hell or high water.

It is too difficult to check their stories
Banjo,
That I can verify personally. It is amazing though how some of our Customs people have honed their skills in detecting those who are genuine & those who aren't. All I can say I was pretty impressed. Unfortunately, some integrity-devoid australian Lawyers have also learnt how to exploit and, backed by the cries of the do-gooder brigade & the UN hangers-on-make-everyone-else-foot-the-bill crowd, the rest of us & our children are paying for the mess.

individual, "backed by the cries of the do-gooder brigade"

The cloak of 'do-gooder' is a convenient cover for:

- an industry that is making meg bucks out of the government. It is only taxpayers' money after all; and

- the culturally cringing Left, many of whom are rule-breakers in the sociological sense or have been unsuccessful in life, and as a result have a sizeable chip on their shoulders against society.

The traditional Lefties would be rolling in their graves at the self-serving BS being spruiked as 'Left' ideology. But then there were always crack-pots and opportunists around, even in their time.

It would be interesting to know how many who challenge the policy of the government that has just been elected (and resoundingly elected at that!) are directly or indirectly swinging from the government's teats and have been for years.

Should read, "- an industry that is making MEGA bucks out of the government. It is only taxpayers' money after all"

individual,

".....I merely retorted with exposing your hypocrisy which constantly evolves around weak attempts to ridicule others yet never once offering a solution."

This is a thread about Morrison seeking to censor reports of boat arrivals.

I commented that I consider that hypocrisy -considering his behaviour in Opposition.

Nothing disingenuous or hypocritical about that.

SM,

"....It is time for adults to clean up your mess."

That is doubly funny coming from the kiddy who likes to change posters names - coz he thinks it's vewy, vewy clever.

They are not "fixing" anything.

They are just as stymied as was Labor.

What they are (not-so) sneakily trying to do is suppress reporting of irregular boat arrivals.....

...to make themselves appear "successful".

Sounds a bit cheaty and underhand to me.

No doubt you approve of such behaviour.

Paul you will in time be forced to confront a truth.
Most Australians could not care less about your pain and suffering claim for boat people.
We just do not want them here, further any government not trusted to stop them, will never become government.ever.
I see however some truths coming home to roost on Tony,s shoulders, he will in time stop the boats, bank on it.
But any honest observer will know he already has a bloody nose for his return the boats policy.
It is at best pure red neck silliness, and unneeded, he has begun in the right way by his 48 hour turn around.
But harmed his own image with the attempt to hide his actions and the arrivals.
Yes many will be far less than pleased but take this on board *few Australians think these people are truely refugees or are truely in danger*

Foxy,

The only reason you could have for being surprised would be if you slept through the months prior to the election.

It was made clear that climate commission would be abolished, the NBN restructured, and that certain public servants had lost the confidence of the Coalition.

Parrot,

I do it to annoy you, and it is obviously working by your childish response. Comparing the coalition to the disaster that was labor, then definitely the adults are taking over.

If the coalition's plans are not working, then why is the number of boat arrivals already 1/3rd of what it was under Labor?

The new changes for boat asylum seekers, with most already implemented will be:
-they will never get permanent residence,
-can not bring in their relatives nor leave the country,
-face being sent to Nauru or PNG (with vastly increased capacity) within 48hrs,
-risk having their boats stopped and spending time in detention in Indonesia, and
-have limited access to appeal the rejection of their asylum claims,

Etc

SM,

".... by your childish response."

My childish response?

ROFL!

>>I noticed that rache, Paul and Susie are now maintaining anyone objecting to the illegals are racist.<<

Well they shouldn't. It's an over-generalisation and it's not accurate. There lots of reasons people object to the resettlement of boat-arriving refugees.

Some of those reasons seem pretty valid: personally I'm none too thrilled about their circumvention of proper UNHCR processes; it doesn't seem fair that some refugees get a better chance of resettlement just because they've got the money to pay people smugglers.

Some of them are obviously ridiculous: I've seen a few posters around here trying to imply that illegal boat arrivals are actually foreign intelligence operatives or the vanguard of an invading military force, who are choosing to use the WORST DEPLOYMENT METHOD EVER in favour of tried, tested, and altogether more sane and rational deployment methods. These are paranoid fantasies which don't stand up to critical analysis and unless they take a widespread hold on people's thinking they are more amusing than concerning.

And some of them are downright offensive. Apparently there are still some people in this country who have paid so little attention to the history of mid-20th century Europe that they haven't figured out that racial supremacy is a PHUCKED ideology which can only ever lead to PHUCKED outcomes.

What I find interesting is that it is only ever the refugee advocates who speak out against this sort of offensive crap. The anti-illegal mob seem to take the view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Sometimes that is the case but sometimes the enemy of my enemy is just a redneck racist dick. Somebody that I would seek to distance myself from at all costs. Because they undermine your case. When you don't pull these dicks up and take them to task for their racist crap - like the lefties do - you send the implicit message that you endorse their racism.

I'm pretty sure that's not a message you want to send. I know that your arguments would be more persuasive if you pointed out not just to lefties but also to your own team - before they score you any more own goals - that this argument isn't about colour or faith: it's about proper legal process.

Cheers,

Tony

What is ist that some citizens of this country can't comprehend when it comes to people from other countries just simply rolling up on our doorstep & expect to be housed, fed & otherwise kept for years on end. We can't even go to their countries simply just to help them there so to eliminate their need to leave for Australia. Yet they demand we put the up.

I'd like to see their young & able men joining with our & other Coalition forces to go back to their countries & hammer the crap out of the mongrels who make their life hell there. But hey, that's not what they want is it now? They want to overrun Australia, that's their mission & the way they're going we might just get that religious yodeller at 3.30am every morning waking us up to remind us of our newly imposed duties.

Tony Lavis < "?..if you pointed out not just to lefties but also to your own team - before they score you any more own goals - that this argument isn't about colour or faith: it's about proper legal process."

Well said Tony.
I see Individual took some notice of you below.
It is posters like him that give the anti-boat people movement it's racist overtone.

Individual <"They want to overrun Australia, that's their mission & the way they're going we might just get that religious yodeller at 3.30am every morning waking us up to remind us of our newly imposed duties."

Charming...

Charming...
Suseonline,
Now there is a racist overtone ! How about telling us if I was wrong & why ? Are all those boat people wrong then for coming here ? Are they then running away from western values ? Why then do they head for a western country like Australia ? I think you owe us all an explanation.

Holier-than-thou Suzie,

I'll think you'll find this is where the racist taunts started:

<<Scared they are all terrorists because they aren't white?
What about the white British woman involved in the latest Kenyan shopping centre shootings? And she wasn't the only one...>>

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6032#172572

Guess who said that?

Individual and SPQR, your comments go before you.
I have no need to explain.
The Ku Klux Klan are looking for new members...

<<Individual and SPQR, your comments go before you>>
Kindly point out my "racist" post?

And <<The Ku Klux Klan are looking for new members...>>
How do you know--inside knowledge?

Indy,
I don't see any racist overtone in Susie's last post, but I do see some ideological niaveity that sees the illegals as poor oppressed people, as distinct from the con merchants they actually are.

The illegals see themselves as missionaries for Islam, as do other muslim immigrants. That is the only reason they come to western countries with an alien culture to theirs. Their intent is to spread Islam. Our governments stupidly accommodate this.

This bloke gave us that information years ago..

Algerian president Houari Boumedienne. "One day millions of men will leave Arabia to go to Europe. And they will not go there as friends. They will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory."

This is happening in Europe now and will happen here as the numbers of muslims grow. I am sure you, and others, can see this.

To criticize a persons conduct, a religion or a culture is not racist, but there are some who try to expand the meaning of the racist word. Especially if they fail in other opposing arguments.

Hence Susie's latest little post. trying to connect you to an extreme group.

I am sure you, and others, can see this.
Banjo,

I just hope that our federal government monitors sites such as this one AND see what we see.

"I just hope that our federal government monitors sites such as this one AND see what we see."

Ho,ho,ho...chortle, splutter...cough!

(Would go nicely with the new regime of censorship and secrecy)

Fan of that sort of thing, are you?

well, it seems you've elected an appropriate government, in that case.

Suppression of dissent for everyone!

: )

Dear Poirot,

You're absolutely spot on and there are quite a
few concerned journalists and political commentators
who are telling us the same thing.

The abolition of the Climate Commission is one example
that's given. Yes, it was an election promise but
the fact that the Coalition scheduled it right at the
top of their first term agenda tells us just how
influential the climate sceptics in the Liberal Party
have become. We're told that "the war on science is just
getting started."

Shooting the messenger, or the very least controlling the
message seems to be the general theme of the new
Coalition government.

The new Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has stated that
he will withhold critical information on boat tow-backs
and asylum arrivals ostensibly for "operational" reasons.
Apparently informing Australian citizens about the arrival of
seaborne asylum seekers, as Labor did, is now merely helping
the people smugglers.

Commentators remind us that "this didn't seem to worry Scott
Morrison when he was in opposition as Shadow immigration
spokesman. He liked to drive a big truck around marginal seats,
advertising the number of boats that had turned up on
Labor's watch. He'd give TV interviews on the subject at every
opportunity. Now in government his conversion from valor to
discretion is complete."

@Foxy,

<<The abolition of the Climate Commission is one example...Shooting the messenger, or the very least controlling the message seems to be the general theme of the new Coalition government>>

Total and utter BS. The Climate Commission was nothing but the propaganda arm of the the AGW church.

Dear SPQR,

You have to realise that The Australian, The Daily
Telegraph and others in the Murdoch fold misrepresented
key facts from leaked copies of the draft IPCC report
and left out many others.

You need to broaden your reading.

Voters need to face the challenges before them and hold their
leaders to account not close their eyes and try to extract
themselves from the messiness of political reality.

Dear Foxy,

<<You need to broaden your reading>>

Aah, therein lies my fault. I read tooooooo widely. You see, I read all the Climate Commission predictions, you know, all that stuff Flannery said about our dams drying up, and all that stuff that Peter Garret said about 6 metres of water invading out homes --and foolish me I did a bit of further reading, some fact checking!

If I had just been satisfied to keep my nose glued to the Climate Commissions latest prophecies of doom and gloom, and not worried about its veracity I might still be a true believer --just like you.And I'd likely be still singing it's praises --just like you.

Foxy, "Voters need to face the challenges before them and hold their
leaders to account not close their eyes and try to extract
themselves from the messiness of political reality"

Translated, "The voters cannot be trusted to get it right".

Nothing totalitarian in that, much. LOL

When the revolution comes, eh Foxy?

But wait a bit, those $$millions of taxpayers' money wasted on the victim industry and multiculturalism will dry up and your local Centrelink Office will close.

That would be a Pyrrhic victory and catastrophic for the whinging Left. Not that they would suffer long, being the first that are put up against the wall and shot, I believe.

Foxy keep up the good work.
Those targeting you give evidence the words are making an impact.
Worry no more, while we got our butt kicked no other result could have been hoped for under the circumstances.
But we are on the rise and states will return soon.

Belly (channeling Shorten and cheering on), 'Whatever she (Foxy) says'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf4nlIEHfaU

Lock step, don't think, comrades!

individual,
You can be absolutely sure this site is being monitored. There are two distinct organizations with interest. The first is a Group I thing we all know called Media Monitors. This is headed up by J Laws,S Flannery,A Jones and that big buffoon who recently fell out with the queen of the turf. Their interest is commercial.
The other group operates out of a building in Deakin, Canberra.They are part of the Echelon network and very interested in anything people have to say that may be off the beaten track.
It is primarily because of the influence of these people we have only laws that tell us what we CANNOT DO and no laws that tell us what we CAN DO.

Dear OTB,

You must stop with your personal insults.
It is unacceptable and totally inappropriate.

How dare you call me "Comrade," and make all
your other disgusting references simply because
my opinion does not agree with yours.
That is lame and pathetic - and low.

As for being put up against the wall in front of
a firing squad. My family is well aware of what
that feels like. Dad's brother was tortured to death
by the retreating Red Army. He was a high school student.
And his sister was sent to Siberia, she was fifeteen
at the time. She had a mental breakdwon when forced to
identify her brother's body - and couldn't do it because
it had been mutilated beyond recognition.

So, please stop all your inferences and stop behaving
like such a low-life.

Foxy,

You may be interested in this article.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/26/australia-happiest-wealthy-nation

"the Liberal party has skilfully and relentlessly inculcated a sense of crisis and emergency where none exists."

"Australia is one of the most successful economies in the developed world. But within the strange fortress that has come to envelop Australian domestic politics, we have apparently been dogged by a series of calamities including:

the cost of living crisis
the productivity crisis
the retail slump crisis
government debt crisis
emergency low interest rates
the threat of sovereign risk
the carbon tax catastrophe
the budget emergency
the border protection crisis"

Foxy,

This link may interest you:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4_B1AANiXs0/TempilRY3oI/AAAAAAAAAak/FIWiltgVIss/s1600/trolls-kitten.jpg

Cheers,

Tony

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for that - we all need the reminder.

But there's more heading our way -
The Coalition plans to cut $100 million from the
Australian Research Council and abolish a string
of public health agencies that perform such
"wasteful" functions as publishing health statistics and
researching crime.

Perhaps in time all of the Coalition's earlier predictions
will come true after all. ;-)

Dear Tony,

Thank You.

Much appreciated.

Foxy,

No need to worry.

With a government as ideologically motivated as this one, which shows every indication of overstepping itself due to overconfidence.

I expect major implosion not too far down the track.

Dear Poirot,

Did you watch the recent debate between Bill Shorten
and Anthony Albanese for the Labor leadership?

Any thoughts?

Poirot,
Do you honestly think those crisis you mention are all BS?
I saw
1 newsagent
1 butcher
1 women's fashion shop
vacate their businesses this weekend. Not sold just closed down.
That is in Cairns and I suppose it is happening everywhere.

To build onto Poirot's list of LNP BS may I also add the carbon tax "lie" half-truth.

In the infamous channel 10 TV interview on August 16, 2010 Gillard's entire statement was, "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead, but lets be absolutely clear, I am determined to price carbon”.

Before the 2010 election, on August 20, she was again clear about her intention concerning a carbon tax versus carbon pricing: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

The entire three year long half-truth campaign from August 2010 to September 2013 was a credit to the entire LNP/Murdoch/Mining/Industrial complex.

But I digress. Interesting emanations coming out now about the LNP limiting who will be allowed be speak to the public media about what, and when:
http://www.afr.com/p/national/abbott_office_takes_control_of_ministers_kOrNDWvxfGRPUF4FEGzQPK

This fits the path we're going down with this government over asylum-seekers. It all feels like a curtain coming down and, if I wasn't so sane, I might be concerned at Tony living with the army and forging an addition to his mighty complex, IYGYKHN.

Luciferase, "To build onto Poirot's list of LNP BS"

What is it with Left Whingers like Poirot, Foxy and you that you have been oblivious to the industrial, manufacturing and retail businesses closing doors around you? What about meat works?

I can only imagine that OLO's Left Whingers must all be suckling from the government's teat in some capacity. Which is likely for some given their bleating at the thought of reviews of government expenditure and the public service.

For any who reside in places other than Canberra, which has been a boom town for years under Labor, it would have been impossible to avoid noticing the closure of offices and small businesses in particular. What about coastal areas that have been affected by the downturn in tourism combined with rising government regulations and taxes?

To claim that it was all LNP spin is utterly ridiculous.

Foxy,
For someone who wears her belt rather high, you never resist the urge to lecture, berate and sledge posters who disagree with you. For instance your reference to me as a "low-life". Nice! NOT.

The be fair, otb, it depends on what part of the truth you want to pull out of each matter listed.

The Gillard interview with Kochie I recall (so it must have been channel 7 then, not 10) is a case of which side of the comma in Gillard's comment you want to put the subjective emphasis. OTOH, cost of living is measurable via the overall CPI (which was low during the last gov't) with one side focussing successfully only on power costs and carbon pricing and (without its compensatory offset) which form part of the CPI.

BTW here's a nice piece where Abbott could just as easily be partially, mischieviouly quoted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oPpQisoZqx4

Luciferase,

Where I reckon the new government's policy and performance needs to be watched carefully is interest rates, meaning rises in interest rates.

That will be catastrophic for the elderly, low income families and those on fixed incomes.

That is moving away from the subject of the thread so I will leave it at that.

I understand the brand a flavor of the biscuits on the governments table is now a state secrete.
Tony has a line up ten deep at his door as his cabinet lines up to ask permission to ring the wife and let her know how they are.

Belly,
Keep up with silly comments like this & you'll have a good chance of becoming president of the society of morons.

It really amuses me to see the Labor supporters falling over each other trying desparatly to find something to criticize the new government about, and they are barley a fortnight old. Susie's thread is another example, she finds critical humour in a sign writers mistake. Even me old mate Belly is getting into the act.

Reminds me of the outrage and demands for her resignation on corruption charges levelled at Pauline Hanson, because she used a sheet of paper with parliamentary letterhead to advise her local council to cancel her garbage service when she sold her business.

All good fun while I await further announcements regarding the illegal entrants. All the while the defeated incompetents fiddle around trying to find a new parliamentary leader, and the greens look like imploding.

Lucyface,

There are at least 2 lies in the link you posted of Juliar.

a) she ruled out a carbon tax (again)
b) any would not be triggered until after 2013.

In 2011 she put in a carbon tax in spite of guaranteeing she wouldn't. That is a huge lie.

Dear OTB,

I do not berate or personally insult posters deliberately,
as you do. I do not deliberately set out in my posts to
hurt people.
Therein lies the difference between us. To me
if you base your entire case on insults - you've
lost the argument, and deserve to have it pointed
out to you. Insults is what you do best.
It's all you've got. That is your stock in
trade. So blaming others for your actions simply
does not wash.

If you behave as a "low-life,"
or come across as "red-neck, ignorant, neanderthal," you
deserve to have it pointed out to you. Go back
and re-read your posts. If you don't
like the opinion that was being formed from your posts -
you can always improve.

Talkin of airy tales...

Here's Mr Hockey on the "surplus":

"We will achieve a surplus in our first year in office and we will achieve a surplus for every year of our first term."

and Mr Abbott:

"We believe we can deliver surpluses in each year of the first term of a Coalition Government."

Tell me the difference, SM?.....because they've got buckley's of delivering it, especially in their first term.

Lies....designed to grab the votes.

"In 2011 she put in a carbon tax in spite of guaranteeing she wouldn't. That is a huge lie."

No Shal, she put in a fixed carbon price. A carbon tax is what Tony was talking about in my second link video, which he saw as preferable to an ETS. A fixed price was a first small step towards an ETS, whch many in the LNP supported, but not enough to give Turnbull the single vote he needed to defeat Abbott for the party leadership.

Whatever, congrats on being a part of the LNP/Murdoch/Mining/Half-Truth complex that achieved its aim. You can let go now.

Disguised by any name you like, it was a TAX.
Carbon Con.

So PPL is a tax, too? (on shareholders and/or purchasers of products of companies paying the levy).
Shhhh...it's a secret.

Any government that is not aiding the enemy, will keep secret the effect of any invasion, until it has been repelled.

Our last government were actually boasting to their western Sydney Muslim constituency, how many they had let in each day. It's called vote buying, & Labor are good at it. They wanted the numbers made public daily, to keep the Muslims on side.

Reading between the lines of the last bit of information to appear, we might have just successfully started the repulsion phase of this particular invasion.

Thanks, Hasbeen,

This place gets more and more bonkers on this subject as the days go by.

Now it "Labor" who, according to you, was promoting boat arrivals.

Which is a laughable conclusion.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-26/green-tony-abbotts-incredible-disappearing-act/4980664

"For three years every arrival was proclaimed. From the blogs of the enthusiastic election-now! right, from newspapers of like mind. In the recent federal campaign, Tony Abbott even gave his support to a touring billboard that counted down every new boat arrival. The political line was simple and eager: the then government had lost control of our borders, it was unable to secure the perimeter...."

"None of it is consistent, of course, none of it rings true. In opposition every boat was numbered and paraded for full political effect. In government the shutters come down."

"If as Morrison now claims the provision of this information has aided the smugglers, then we can assume it also, by his own arguments, put lives at risk. Logically that is precisely what Messrs Morrison and Abbott have spent the past three years in opposition doing: spreading information for political purpose that by their own standards of "shipping news" encouraged the smugglers and thus put the lives of asylum seekers in terrible jeopardy."

Poirot - Quote "Now it "Labor" who, according to you, was promoting boat arrivals. Which is a laughable conclusion."

You can promote something by not actually doing anything effectively enough to stop it, so by that Labor did promote the rise in boat arrivals.

If they had effectively stopped them we would not have had over 50,000 arrive during there term of office.

So far Australia under the Liberals has returned 2 boatloads of people to Indonesia they rescued just off Indonesian land.

Labor had our Navy bring them all except 1 boatload to Australia when they picked them up well into Indonesia's rescue zone.

Labor only started to really do everything possible to stop them when it became apparent it could become part of an election loosing issue if they did not stop them.

Philip S,

There's always been a mode of secrecy and spin concerning refugees, their arrival and subsequent treatment.

That's not new.

It's the ramping up of censorship of it that's interesting.

"Immigration, it happens, has had one of the more upfront PR operatives. The department's chief spinner, Sandi Logan, has been in the habit for some years of using Twitter to make announcements, argue his department's stances and sometimes take direct issue with critical reporters. Commander of the High Seas Rear-Admiral Morrison has now told Logan to put a sock in it. The minister's office will handle things from now on, thank you, and Mr Logan's Twitter account has been "retired"."

(I followed his twitter account for a while after the Rudd announcement when he was advertising transfers and publishing pictures of crying refugees being told they were straight off to Manus)

"The British newspaper publisher Alfred, Lord Northcliffe (1865-1922) famously defined news as "what somebody somewhere wants to suppress; all the rest is advertising".

We should thank the Minister-General, Scott Morrison, for reminding us.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/from-morrison-all-the-news-fit-to-suppress-20130927-2ujta.html#ixzz2g6ovyRVD

<<So far Australia under the Liberals has returned 2 boatloads of people to Indonesia they rescued just off Indonesian land>>

Yep good to see,should always have been the policy!

Up to now we've been soooooooooo wimpy-weak:
--We pick them up from just off Jakarta and escort them to an OZ port.
-- Give them a free call home (to alert folks to send the next boat).
--Give them access to all the latest IT/internet, to keep in contact with their relos & finalize payment transfers to the smugglers.
--And the Green/lefty media (in which I include the ABC & SBS) run regular sermons about how bad we are to not be more accommodating.

And take a look at the title of this thread: <<Are irregular arrivals a wartime secret?>> another symptom of the wimpy-weak disease!
FGS! call a spade a spade. Anyone who barges, bullies and bribes their way to our shores is an ILLEGAL!

SPQR,
Poirot is staring to sound like it is a member of the illegal invasion crowd. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it wasn't actually involved in the people smuggling rort.

individual,

"Poirot is staring to sound like it is a member of the illegal invasion crowd. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it wasn't actually involved in the people smuggling rort."

You are a very poor excuse for reasoned debate around here.

So now you, who trumpet your down-to-earth virtues, are now referring to fellow posters as "it".

At least you have more than one argument to fling at your opponents. You used to make do with merely calling them a "moron" - now you can refer to them as "it" as well.

Making progress.....slowly.

Sadly, I fear, too many of us are happier not knowing what (we) our government is doing, making the cloak of secrecy all the easier to throw over this matter.

If we can't see it it's not there, much like it was for the German people, or so they told us later.

We are "processing" asylum claims at sea, with the same outcome for all: "REJECTED".

At least the PNG solution did not involve this extreme prejudice.

I am absolutely disgusted.

Poirot,
You don't appear to have too much of a problem ridiculing others but when some of it is flung back at you you start sulking.
Let me ask you this. Are you capable of offering your idea of a solution the flood of so-called refugees passing through several Muslim countries only to aim for a western i.e. not yet non-muslim nation as Australia ?
Still part of this question is how would you go about preventing these people from becoming refugees in the first place. Please offer your solution, I'm not interested in more subject evading ridicule.

"Still part of this question is how would you go about preventing these people from becoming refugees in the first place."

Yeah, we march into those countries and sort them out, right? Let's get those 45 million back home where they belong.

Perhaps you secretly support Bob Brown and a one world government, Indy? All you need are bells, beads, incense, brown rice, crystals and mung beans, and a ban the bomb placard.

Good grief.

individual,

I have no idea what the solution is.

Displacement of humanity is part of the human condition - always has been.

This thread is ostensibly about the secrecy and hypocrisy surrounding Morrison's new regime.

That's what I've been addressing.

All you need are bells, beads, incense, brown rice, crystals and mung beans, and a ban the bomb placard.
Lucidarse,
Your degree of intelligence is simply mind-boggling. Why they didn't get you instead of Julia Gillard is beyond understanding.

"Why they didn't get you instead of Julia Gillard...."

Good grief, again.

Just for you, today, Indy:

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

Ooh,hoooooo.......

Lucyfarce,
Now I get it, all we have to do is dream. Problems solved.

Luciferase is absolutely disgusted, but no where near as disgusted as I am at the stupidity of this bleeding heart attitude.

Luciferase you have no right to give away other peoples birthright. Now I have no idea if you have any birthright to our country, or are a recent boat person interloper yourself, but you disgust me completely with your simplistic garbage.

Every time we allow another one of these gatecrashers into our country, we diminish what it is. Let in enough, & we will have another hell hole, like those they are trying to exchange for Oz.

No place is a hell hole. They become such because of the people who live there. These people carry their hell hole generating ability with them wherever they go. I don't need any secretive rejection of the rejection of this invasion. I'll happily volunteer to personally help repel them with all force necessary

The law is on my side, Hasbeen. We are a signatory to the UN refugee convention and while that is so we are bound by it, legally and morally.

What we are doing is paying lip service to our obligation whereas under the PNG solution, were it followed through, we'd be honoring it.

Why doesn't it pull the pin on the convention and bare itself to all istead of playing stupid games like we're all stupid?

"Why doesn't it pull the pin on the convention and bare itself to all istead of playing stupid games like we're all stupid?"

Precisely!

Luciferase - We are not a signatory to boatloads of welfare for lifers and Economic invaders! So anything the government does to repel them is okay with me.

I agree pull the pin on the outdated convention.

We are a signatory to the UN refugee convention
Luciface,
Perhaps we should have a referendum on pulling out of the UN it before it totally ruins us.

On one of the boats that sank 1 Lebanese man was on the boat with his pregnant wife and 8 children.

That is a family of 11 people Taxpayers would have had to support.

Australia would have been liable to a few thousand dollars each week to support them, not wanting that burden does not make anyone racist. (put that in because someone will throw the racist card)

I have great sympathy for the children forced by the parents but none for the adults.

The only survivor of the family so far is the man.

(put that in because someone will throw the racist card)
Philip S,
No-one with an ounce of compassion can not help but feel about such tragedies but no Australian should feel guilty. I Have some time ago conversed with several Lebanese & all of them spoke of how good life was there. If you google Lebanon you'll find they have much more advanced holiday resorts & shopping malls than anywhere in Australia. Was this family forced to take this journey or were they genuine refugees ?

Knowing that there was a reasonable chance of drowning on some of these boats, who but really desperate people would risk taking their pregnant wife and eight children on a leaky boat to Australia?

You guys are absolutely heartless!
There is nothing illegal about coming to Australia seeking asylum.
I see nothing to be gained by us leaving the UN.
End of story...

individual - Quote "they have much more advanced holiday resorts & shopping malls than anywhere in Australia."

But what is the divide between a country having these things and people being able to afford to go there? 28% below poverty (1999 est)

Lebanon
Unemployment, youth ages 15-24: 22.1%
Population below poverty line: 28% (1999 est.)
Is there any political turmoil in Lebanon?

Suseonline - Quote "Knowing that there was a reasonable chance of drowning on some of these boats, who but really desperate people would risk taking their pregnant wife and eight children on a leaky boat to Australia?"

That desperation can simply be that Indonesia do not give them 1 CENT - NOTHING so with such a large family Australia is the ONLY OPTION.

By the way you have already thrown out the racist card on page 3 so now you try the "heartless" line.

I would like to know how charitable you really would be if you were faced with mounting debt and your family and relatives were homeless.

Would you really be so open to accepting every beggar that stopped at your door in place of your own family members.

No Australian shout feel any guilt for this episode. My understanding is that the boat was firstly unseaworthy and secondly it was in Indonesian waters.
Are we expected to patrol Indonesian waters as well?
If that bloke with all the kids that drowned tried what he did in Australia in exposing them to the risk he did he would have been charged with child abuse, locked up and the kids placed in welfare.
Susanonline
"There is nothing illegal about coming to Australia seeking asylum."
Provided you do it in a legal way as prescribed by our laws that is.
It is a crime to land in Australia without papers or the correct invitation methodology.
The magic words "I want asylum" should be accompanied with proof by the applicant they need asylum.

I see nothing to be gained by us leaving the UN
Suseonline,
You cant see anything at all let alone sense & reality.

How about answering Philp's question below ?
Would you really be so open to accepting every beggar that stopped at your door in place of your own family members.

Individual, you can't see anything but your own blind hatred of all people who don't have the same rigid views as you. No sense, no feeling.

As for dear PhilS, I don't think any Government official has asked anyone else if they would like to have some 'beggars' to live with them?
I doubt if our first Australians were asked if they wanted all the European 'beggars' living in their country either, so you must understand their problems very well...

Chris,
I have read that the latest boat was not only in Indonesian waters, but that it actually was only around 100m from the beach and broke up in the crashing waves.
A very sad event.
However I fail to understand why the media and others try to blame this on Australia.
I wonder if the media would have the guts to blame Indonesia if a boat sank just off the coast of Australia. Also why is that Asylum seeker blaming the Australian rescue service and why is he phoning them in the first place? I know if I was in a boat just off the coast of Australia and it started to sink, I would't be calling Indonesia.
What hypocrisy.

Ozzie, I think what the media are on about is that the latest Liberal Govt strategy (threat?) of getting a 3 star General to drive back all the 'invading' foreigners in leaky boats, is not working.

Whether or not the capsized boat was just off Indonesia or not, the fact remains that they were on their way to Australia...despite the new measures to 'Stop The Boats'.

And Abbott was a disgrace today to not even comment on the tragedy.
He did the usual furious silent thing he does...like a petulant child.
So embarrassing in a PM...

Suse,

"And Abbott was a disgrace today to not even comment on the tragedy.
He did the usual furious silent thing he does...like a petulant child.
So embarrassing in a PM..."

Shameful that Abbott behaves...as someone remarked....like a dodgy trader being pursued by a Today Tonight news team.

Not a PM's bootlace.

Suseonline - Your argument is just plane crazy Quote "Whether or not the capsized boat was just off Indonesia or not, the fact remains that they were on their way to Australia."

1) In what twisted logic does the fact the boat was heading to Australia make them our responsibility?

2) They were in Indonesian rescue zone.

3) They could have phoned Indonesia.

4) Australia had a merchant vessel and RAAF plane look but could not find them.

Poirot - Why does Abbott have to take responsibility or have to reply to something that is an Indonesian problem, Australia were just assisting them.

Nothing he could say would bring them back to life, the survivors are just looking for someone to blame for there own greed, or probably setting Australia up for a law suite for compensation.

As stated before I have NO sympathy for the adults my sympathy is for the minors forced onto the boat by greedy parents.

Abbott can take or not take responsibility as he pleases.

My point is that even if he does deign to pop his head out of the bunker, it's only under the supervision of Credlin and his minders. He appears incapable of speaking under his own volition and with his own mind.

What kind of a leader scuttles down the street ignoring inquiries into a serious issue?

He could have at least offered condolences and indicated a statement would have been forthcoming.

I could give a toss what you think about people fleeing persecution...

But I'd be interested to see you and your (not so) manly cohort here in a similar position...I bet you'd all squeal long and loud.

No one here has said the situation is Australia's fault PhillipS.
Obviously it is a mixture of 'faults' to do with the problems in their original countries, the countries they travel through to get to Indonesia, the people smugglers, and some of the refugees themselves.

The problem we have is how the PM and his Government handle themselves and the refugees involved, as far as this asylum seeker situation goes.

This current Govt spent years ranting and raving about the Labor Govt's handling of the asylum seeker problem, when they were in opposition, but when anyone asks about what is happening now, there is silence on all fronts.

What have they got to hide anyway?
Surely the current situation can't be as bad as before the Coalition swept into power... can it?

Not to worry, soon the wet /cyclone season will be here, and the boats will stop anyway.
Gee, I hope Tony doesn't call that time his 'success' at stopping the boats?

Poirot - Quote "But I'd be interested to see you and your (not so) manly cohort here in a similar position...I bet you'd all squeal long and loud"

Sounds to me like you a getting into a tizzy.

To quote you again "What kind of a leader scuttles down the street ignoring inquiries into a serious issue?" One who has not yet been given all the facts so as to make an informed comment.

Just out of interest what does "deign" mean?

Suseonline - I agree they should be more forthcoming with arrivals etc.

Philip S,

" One who has not yet been given all the facts so as to make an informed comment. "

Sorry, not good enough for a leader.

I suggested: "He could have at least offered condolences and indicated a statement would have been forthcoming."

That's what leaders do, even if they're not fully cognizant of all the facts.

They don't scuttle down the street like a dodgy trader pursued by the media.

Since you can't bothered seeking out a dictionary, I'll help you out with "deign".

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/deign

Susie,
What you have said in response to my post is incorrect.
I asked why the media is blaming Australia.
You said what they were on about, was that they are saying the Libs new strategy is not working.
That is not correct. Have a look at the headlines.
The latest one I see today in The Australian is "Australia failed to send help"
There keep on blaming Australia for failing to rescue people 100m off the coast of Indonesia. There is no mention of what you say, about the libs strategy, it is all about how supposedly Australia failed to send help.
Incredible hypocrisy, why are you not blaming Indonesia for failing to rescue people just off there coast.

I see the new competent government has started to implement its policy by rescuing the asylum seekers in Indonesian waters and returning them to Indonesia. So when the traffickers phone up the Australian Navy expecting labor's water taxi service to Xmas Island, they get sent home.

There is no interference with Indonesian sovereignty if Australia turns the boats around in International waters, and Abbott is going to get some form of agreement that Indonesia does not interfere in Australia's sovereign rights to intercept and stop illegal boats coming to Aus, and Aus will not interfere in Indonesian sovereign rights.

<<"Australia failed to send help">>

We can expect this in truck loads.Illegal immigration industry bods ain't going give up their plush seats on the gravy train without a fight.

PS: <<The latest one I see today in The Australian is "Australia failed to send help">> kinda shows-up the old lefty lie about the Murdoch press, ay!

SM, we would know what Abbott and his cronies are up on asylum seekers it all a "big secret" turn back the boats, become buy the boats which then morphed into hide the boats. It was shocking how Abbott didn't even offer condolences at the sad deaths of mostly children trying to make their way to Australia for a better life. I wounder if he would take the same attitude if a boat load of Americans were to drown, I think not.

"the new competent government" did someone, somewhere have an election besides Australia and vote in a competent government, we didn't in Oz, we got wombats.
Have you checked out that "Minister" that looks and sounds like Aarnie Schwarzenegger, I thought all the neanderthals were extinct, seems not there's one still running around Canberra. if he's a minister imagine what's on the back bench, orangutans...gee that's unkind to orangutans.

your own blind hatred of all people who don't have the same rigid views as you.
Suseonline,
That statement is a much clearer indication of YOUR hatred of all people who don't have the same rigid views as you.
I am interested in protecting Australia unlike you. The more you write the more it becomes obvious that you have a vested interest in people smuggling. You're not concerned about children drowning, you're encouraging more to come here & my guess is you're a closet fundamentalist like that white widow from Kenya. No sober thinking person in their right frame of mind jeopardises the lives of children in order to achieve some perverse satisfaction of seeing their country invaded at the cost of childrens' lives. Only very, very sick people do that.

The PM simply chooses not to assign any responsibility or guilt to Australia or his government for the misfortunes and stupidity of others encouraging criminal neglect.
I bet the bloke who rang Australia was the smuggler captain and the number was on speed dial.
The seaman's unions of Australia, US and Britain in particular would not allow such unseaworthy vessels to leave the harbors why the do the Indonesian allow such stupidity?

Paul,

Labor and the Greens are the ones that don't care about children drowning. They created the trade in human trafficking that has killed nearly 2000 people in the last 5 years.

If anyone has read the papers, the Australian navy has been stretched with several "rescues" in Indonesian waters just yesterday. With boats crying wolf to get the Australian water taxi service, the rescue service has been stretched to the limit. It was only a matter of time before Labor's stupid policy would lead to a real rescue falling between the cracks. How many women and children will labor's moronic policy have to kill before the left whingers realize that saving lives means stopping the boats.

For the first time in 6 years Australia has a competent PM that realizes that to get things done he does not need to get everyone's approval, that there will be some huffing and puffing, but the boats will stop, and women and children will stop dying.

One other point needs mentioning. The boat apparently sank only 50-100m from shore. Most of the survivors seem to be young/middle aged men. Many of the dead are children. Why were not those who could swim helping those ho could not?
I know if an Australian boat sank off a beach in Australia and all the adults survived and the children didn't, there would be many people including the media asking very serious questions about the possible conduct of those adults.

This kind of conduct makes one wonder if those children actually belonged to those claiming to be their parents. It would not surprise me at all if one day it was revealed that kidnapped children were used to stir the compassion of those who let their ignorance rule their thinking.
It sort of reminds me of the days when kids were loaded up with explosives & sent into enemy camps or even these days when terrorists hide bin amongst children. Whatever the truth it certainly is disgusting.

Individual, a new low, but not surprising, that you call me a terrorist.
Isn't that a little hysterical , even for you?
I still think you would be happier living in the US, where you would have ready access to the KKK...

Ozzie, what a dreadful post above!
Suggesting the adults deliberately let the children drown, when you weren't there, is disgusting...

individual,

That's about as warped as it comes.

See if you can plumb the depths a little further.

Grotesque!

Suse,

Do yer reckon these mealy-mouthed fearful men and their hysterical theories represent "manhood" in Oz these days?

We're in a bad way if they're representative of the majority.

No Poirot, none of the men I know would think that way.
It is obviously an OLO specialty.

They should be ashamed of themselves!
I think it's time I leave this thread because I only have swear words available to use at this stage.
See you all on another thread...

Suse,

"I think it's time I leave this thread because I only have swear words available to use at this stage."

Great idea...see you elsewhere.

: )

Susie,
That's a poor excuse, suggesting that my thoughts are disgusting, yet making no meaningful response.
The boat sank 50-100m of the beach, many children died, yet only young and middle aged men survived. I think a few questions need to be asked. Like I said, if the same situation would have happened to an Australian boat 100m of sure, you can bet that many people would have been questioning the adults as to how many children they tried to help.
Surely if each adult had jus thelped one child.

It is actually disgusting that you Susie try to suppress debate on thsi topic, by suggesting the very thought of it is disgusting.
You are the disgusting one Susie, who tries to bully others in to your own PC views \, and suppressing any debate.
Most people have had enough of people like you.

Girls or rather old women,
A reasonably decent, sober thinking person would have reacted totally different. Ask anyone who has been in war zones & they will tell you how innocent little children have been exploited in the most inhumane manner. Now if you had replied that my comments weren't beyond the realm of possibility no matter how far fetched then it would identify you as thinkers. You chose to be seen as the opposite.
I just heard on the radio that the wreck occurred within 50 metres off the beach. Now, I have plenty experience in boats & I do not wish to judge without knowing the facts. Even that close to a beach a crew may not have any control other than throwing an anchor.
But that's not what got you going is it ? You got your bloomers in a twist because of my drawing attention to a rather bad possibility but a possibility nevertheless. Surely by now you must accept that those people try ANYTHING to get here. They are fully aware that westerners in general are suckers for compassion.

After some here like dear Old Tin of Fruit Poirot have gone on and on about Indonesia's sovereignty in support of its Foreign minister's slanted comments earlier, they have no credibility at all demanding that the Australian navy steam into Indonesian waters to rescue an Indonesian flagged vessel with an Indonesian captain and crew that was operating dangerously and founded 50 metres off an Indonesian beach.

<Asylum seeker boat sank 50 metres off Indonesian shore, survivors say

Survivors from an asylum seeker boat that sank off Indonesia say the boat returned to land after it hit trouble in rough seas and sank only 50 metres from the shore.

About 50 people are either missing or dead, 30 of them understood to be children, after the boat sank off Agrabinta, a remote area of the coast off the Cianjur region of west Java after it got into trouble on Thursday>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-29/asylum-seeker-boat-sank-50-metres-off-indonesian-shore/4987412

Any other nation would immediately charge the captain and crew with maritime offences and go looking for the criminals behind the venture.

However Dear Old Tin of Fruit and the Grrls only have eyes for an opportunity to bag Australia, Australians and the Australian Navy.

Another suppository of wisdom from a poster who
probably considers a pot belly as a status symbol
and whose only flair would be in his nostrils. ;-)

Foxy,
Your intelligence re finding a solution to a very tragic problem is out-shining all others. You must be feeling incredibly proud.

The problem is of course that first Rudd, then Gillard & the rest of Labor trained the providers of boats, & the illegal immigrants who ride them, that they could get away with anything.

Boats could be absolute tubs, & overloaded 300% when they only have to get a few miles off shore, then call the Oz navy to come & get them.

Labor have been doing this for years. It was a good ploy for them, if not the people of Oz, it bought enough western Sydney votes to save a few seats. Who cared if a few drowned, Ruddy sure didn't.

Our patrol boats are falling apart, having been run into the ground on this Labor taxi service. Boats meant for light fast patrol duties are near torn apart after being used as tugs, towing these boats & their garbage cargos to Christmas Island.

So ladies, now & until Abbotts new policies are digested & understood by boat people & boat suppliers alike, every death can still be laid right at the feet of the disgusting man who instigated it, Kevin Rudd.

No amount of posturing, blathering or spinning can change the simple fact. Billions of dollars & thousands of lives lost is all down to that disgusting excuse for a man.

Dear Individual,

Good to see that you do finally
know your limitations and recognise them.

"So ladies, now & until Abbotts new policies are digested & understood by boat people & boat suppliers alike,..."

Pray tell, Hasbeen, can you detail the policies to which your refer?

We've had the slogans - and the attempted censorship.

I don't believe they've actually got as far as the policies....not really (if you know what I mean:)...apart from the grandiose title of "Operation Sovereign Pretense".

Poirot - Quote "I think it's time I leave this thread because I only have swear words available to use at this stage." from page 33

To have to resort to profanity implies you have no real counter argument or could it be you know it to be true and just cannot accept something that you disagree with.

I assume that means the white flag of surrender.

Philip S,

"To have to resort to profanity implies you have no real counter argument or could it be you know it to be true and just cannot accept something that you disagree with.

I assume that means the white flag of surrender."

Neat theory...except...I didn't say that.

I was merely quoting Suse.

Bye bye.

Foxy,
this should warm your heart, it's all Australia's fault.

One survivor told ABC News he had lost his whole family because Australian rescuers did not come when they phoned a day before the sinking.

"We called the Australian Government for 24 hours, they were telling us 'we're coming, we're coming, we're coming,' and they didn't come," he said.

"We sent them the position on the GPS, exactly where are we, and we drowned and nobody came.

"This is because of the Australian Government. I want them to know that."

Foxy, "Another suppository of wisdom from a poster who probably considers a pot belly as a status symbol and whose only flair would be in his nostrils"

That from the poster who lectures others on how to conduct a debate and whinged that the previous Opposition was 'negative". LOL

It is going to be a very, very, long six years for some.

Waiting for the howls of outrage as the government (necessarily) reviews government services and grants to ensure relevance and worth, and that value for money is being obtained. Most of the pre-emptive strikes against the democratically elected new government would be coming from individuals and groups who have been swinging from the government's teats for years. The sound of the elastic 'SNAP' as the teats are removed from undeserving mouths, will be priceless!

Dear Individual,

Good attempt at stirring.

Dear OTB,

I understand that you really do have a
deep need to complain.

Foxy,
cheers for that, I was hoping to stir some deep hidden bit of sense in you & Suseonline et al. Sadly, a mere attempt is yet another failure on my behalf. As they say one should never give up trying.

After this rant;
"This is because of the Australian Government. I want them to know that."
I suppose we can expect a full scale terrorist attack by locals in one of our shopping centers because Australia failed to rescue a (Muslim) family in Muslim waters.
Fair go.

Dear Individual,

You keep on doing what you're doing.
You're doing a great job.

"This is because of the Australian Government. I want them to know that."

Dear freeloading Economic Invader, on behalf of Australia we are sorry that a plane and a merchant ship that were sent to your aid could not find you.

Also we are sorry we had to rescue 2 other boats just before you and the ships were otherwise engaged, If you would like to contribute to the Australian Economy a few billion dollars we may be able to provide a better taxi service.

The more I see video from these rescued people there rhetoric make me glad they never got here and the good news is the Indonesian government contacted the embassy's from where they came and are deporting them back home.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Before the elections boat arrivals had reached nearly 1000/wk. This last week less than 160 arrived. That is already a more than 80% drop. I love watching the left whingers eating crow.

SM must have inside information, no one else knows how many have come/drowned in the last week.
However Abbott in my view will stop the boats.
He however should not hide the numbers and for the sake of his own sanity and ours not try turning them back, he has no need to, his policy,s will do that for him.
Many who push the be kinder to them wheel barrow need to think.
Evidence exists pink left and just the looney left are constantly ringing and giving advice, including to sink the boats as or navy arrives, under mining both Labor and Liberal governments efforts to stop the drownings/boat arrivals.
Here is the very real danger the true left imposes even on the so called refugees, in an effort to win their way over us all.

SM must have inside information, no one else knows how many have come/drowned in the last week.
However Abbott in my view will stop the boats.
He however should not hide the numbers and for the sake of his own sanity and ours not try turning them back, he has no need to, his policy,s will do that for him.
Many who push the be kinder to them wheel barrow need to think.
Evidence exists pink left and just the looney left are constantly ringing and giving advice, including to sink the boats as our navy arrives, under mining both Labor and Liberal governments efforts to stop the drownings/boat arrivals.
Here is the very real danger the true left imposes even on the so called refugees, in an effort to win their way over us all.

<< and the good news is the Indonesian government contacted the embassy's from where they came and are deporting them back home>>

Well surprise, surprise, Chris Bowen was always telling us their countries would NOT accept them back.

Another policy response to the illegal immigration racket which was long said to *impossible* has just been shown to be possible, amazing!

Apparently informing Australian citizens about the
arrival of seaborne asylum seekers, as Labor did,
is now merely helping the people smugglers.

The new Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has
overtly stated he will withhold critical information on
boat-tow-backs and asylum seeker arrivals ostensibly
for "operational reasons."

This didn't seem to worry Scott Morrison when he was
in Opposition as Shadow Immigration spokesman. He used
every media opportunity to advertise the number of boats
that had turned up on Labor's watch. He liked to drive
a big truck around marginal seats, advertising the
number of boats. Now in government his conversion from
valor to discretion is complete.

I appears that the slogans have now changed from -
"We'll Stop the Boats," to "We'll stop talking About
the Boats!"

And who can blame Mr Morrison - when his leader,
the current PM simply regards the boat arrivals as
a "small irritant." Times certainly change when
you're in government instead of in opposition.

Link
http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/19166795/smugglers-behind-lebanese-asylum-seekers-deaths-of-java/

Economic invaders - destroying passports - traveling on fake Syrian passports so as to get Asylum easier.

Time to deport the economic invaders that Labor welcomed. Check them out thoroughly not just 10 to 15% of them like Labor did.

Dear Philip,

What evidence do you have to back your claims about
what Labor did? You don't appear to be arguing in
a logical manner. Your statements about Labor -
without any evidence makes you appear to be arguing on an
emotional level, not a mature, intelligent one.
It would be like my saying "All Collingwood players are
rough hoodlums." A more effective approach would be a
subtle hint that the players often use physical
force to overcome the opposition. And your stating that
Labor "welcomed" economic asylum seekers - is just plain
silly because you should know by now that all asylum
seekers have to be assessed - and then judged accordingly
and dealt with, and it was Labor who tried to offer
many solutions to the asylum seeker problem while the
Coalition blocked every suggestion. It was Labor who saw this
as a regional problem - and attempted to seek solutions
to the problem. Now that the Coalition
are in government - they don't
want to talk about the isue. Goodness me!

Foxy,
Do you honestly believe that the assessment system is free from corruption and manipulation? If you do you must believe in those little green me at the bottom of my garden.

Belly,

The "inside" information is available in most newspapers, as it has always been. One does not need a daily ministerial briefing to realize that an illegal boat has arrived.

Chris Bowen (former Labor minister for illegal immigration) obviously misses his daily communique to announce labor failure, and is now daily giving news conferences demanding daily news conferences from the government.

As for the Indonesian boat with an Indonesian crew and non Australian passengers that sank in Indonesian waters, why do you want a news bulletin from the Australian government?

Foxy,

As per my post above, it looks as though the boats are stopping.

PS how does the crow you are eating taste?

SM,

"....One does not need a daily ministerial briefing to realize that an illegal boat has arrived."

Why did Morrison shriek so often whenever they turned up. He even put it up and had it driven around the suburbs.

You have as much credibility on this issue as the hypocritical cretins in government.

Which amounts to zero.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Actually the boats have not stopped coming at all.
According to the last known count there's been
seven at least since the Coalition has come into
government and with the numbers on each boat
totalling in the hundreds that does not tally with
your given count. And who knows how many have arrived
since. (Not allowed to talk about it - its a secret).

As for my eating "crow?" You wish. I'm simply amused
by the BS you're spreading so thickly and no one's
buying it. Before long the voters will also catch
up to exactly what it is they've voted in.

Dear Chris,

Of course there will be always be people who will
try to get around the "system."
We all know that. But that doesn't mean that the
government should stop doing its job or with hold
critical information - which is the general theme of
the new Coalition government.

We need to face the challenges before us and hold our
leaders to account - not close our eyes and believe in
fairies (or in this case slogans).

Shadow

To adapt Belly's words in a previous post (above)

"[Shadow] keep up the good work.
Those targeting you give evidence the words are making an impact."

Cheers

Foxy,

I see the feathers have stuck in your craw.

I said in the last week, and most boats have had less than 100 passengers. Since the election there have been less boat arrivals than were occurring every week recently under Labor's failed policy.

Since being sworn in and putting in place the new polices the boats have been tapering off.

P,

You are lying again. Scott Morrison only spoke to the media a few times a month even when the boats were arriving at the rate of more than one a day. I challenge you to show where his press statements even vaguely matched the number of boats.

The person doing the shrieking is the ex minister for illegal immigration Chris Bowen.

Foxy - The FACT that only 10 to 15% of refugees were checked properly is a well documented statistic.

It came out around the same time as Labor was spreading the BS about refugees only being responsible for 4 or less crimes which I provided information that showed that was wrong by 100's.

Foxy tell me if I am wrong but in truth no stirring, I see true hate in some things said to you and others here.
Too a belief that nothing you say is true.
You are aware of my thoughts on boat people, and I understand you disagree.
But in all my time here I never hated.
Oh true dislike was there, strangely not at those you would think.
SM and his few mates are not on my Christmas list, but not too on the avoid one.
Let me tell you Foxy a truth about boat people.
I understand we are 47th in the world in taking in refugees, but much better based on population numbers.
In the 1970,s like it or not, we both gave refuge to many and too saw we gained a culture other than our own.
Hard, harsh even, but people fear the enclaves, the determination to be different in todays migrant/refugee intake.
And more important than anything.
We think/know if we do not stop the boats our country opens its arms, then we see hundreds of thousands of refugees arrive every year.
I must be sounding xenophobic by now, but Foxy, one day we will be told how much it costs and how much our welfare bill to keep these folk for near decades after arrival costs.
Abbott not telling us how many is a crime but not putting an end to them is too.

No boats for three days today and countimg

Dear SM,

I see more of the same from you, piled higher
and deeper. You've certainly got it down to a
fine art. As for feathers and craw?
Harry Truman put it so well:

"I have no desire to crow over anybody or to see
anybody eating crow, figuratively or otherwise.
We should all get together and make a country
in which everybody can eat turkey whenever they please."

Dear Philip,

Well documented stats are easily checked.
Where did you get yours from?
Show us.

Dear Belly,

You're not alone in your concerns about
boat people. I remember an reading about a
well known writer who had your fears a few
decades ago and his walking into the Legend Cafe
in Bourke Street, Melbourne, standing beneath
the Sinbad murals of Leonard French, ordering a
"cappa-cheeno." Minutes later he'd learned
two new words from the man behind the hellishly
steaming espresso machine - "prego" and "grazie."
This was a beginning for him. Each of us can only
go from our own experiences, I guess. We've sorted
things out in the past. Hopefully, we'll be able to
sort them out again. Of course it involves taking
some considerable risks - but almost every human
advance is based on experiment, innovation, and
adventure.

Dear Chris,

I guess the boats that sink - don't count in the
tally.

chrisgaff1000 - Sorry BUT there was QUOTE "Another vessel carrying 78 people was intercepted overnight Sunday, but doesn't count as a fourth boat because it was detected outside the weekly reporting period."

This sounds like a dodgy way of calculating them, so theoretically it should show in next weeks figures.

Foxy, "Of course it involves taking some considerable risks"

You always have plenty of advice for others, however it is your heart on your sleeve and they take the risks and pay the taxes.

You have had abundant opportunity to take one or more of those buff young fellows in to board. The Government will even pay you for doing it.


So the question still remains, why haven't you walked your own talk?

That question could also be asked of prominent Greens such as the very well remunerated Bob Brown.

Instead of playing pirate on the high seas why hasn't Bob Brown and his partner who are living in comfortable retirement courtesy of the Australian taxpayer volunteered to take some of those illegal immigrants in for a while to 'save' them from the hotel rooms the government is obliged to rent for them?

Of course, given the interminable drubbing you give Australia for alleged unfair and abominable treatment given to migrants post WW2 (unfair and abominable according to you!), it is a wonder you aren't warning these economic migrants away from the place.

Foxy - Quote "No boats for three days today and counting" Means no boats arriving.

To quote you "I guess the boats that sink - don't count in the tally."

You are playing silly buggers here you know what he meant.

Philip S
The whole process is dodgy so why worry.
Foxy
Missed that one

It looks as though Abbott has already got further with Indonesia than Dudd/Juliar did in 6 years.

"The Indonesian President has made a significant concession to Tony Abbott's demands on asylum seekers in talks in Jakarta, agreeing that Indonesia will need to make direct deals with Australia to solve the people-smuggling problem."

It looks as if the coalition will restore the relationship with Indonesia back to Howard government levels and repair the damage done by Labor.

Yeah, SM, It depends on which paper you read...as to how the message is couched.

From Jakarta Post editorial,

"As Indonesia’s leader for nine years, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono knows he should give enough space to his guest — Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott — so that the latter can claim to the Australian people that the result of a bilateral summit between the two countries on Monday proves his tough asylum seeker policy has been endorsed by Indonesia.

The President will not humiliate his guest by telling him to “abort” or soften his position. Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa has warned his new Australian counterpart Julie Bishop against taking unilateral measures, including buying Indonesian boats and paying Indonesian villagers to gather intelligence for Australia on the movements of asylum boats.....

Indonesia has a strong obligation to help Australia eradicate the flows of asylum seekers as Indonesia itself does not gain any benefit from human trafficking. It is a also a matter of national security for the country. Indonesia has a strong capacity to play a crucial role in the battle against illegal immigration.

The Australian leader, however, needs to understand that “loudspeaker” diplomacy will only harm his own government."

Dear OTB,

Yes, I know... earthquake in Canberra - obviously
my fault.

Your "objectivity" simple shines in all of your posts
as does your "knowledge" - especially about government
policy post World War II regarding refugees and their
treatment (through which my family happened to live
and experience).

But hey, when someone dares to look
critically at motivation, circumstances, context, or
any other such considerations of any issue - you immediately
accuse them of being "anti" Australian, et cetera.
I'm surprised you haven't called me a man-hating, "progressive"
yet... But there's still time. Can't wait.

Next will come some blatant reference to totalitarianism,
and firing squads. (Despite the fact that my family ran
from them during World War II having suffered dreadfully
from that regime).

Keep piling it higher and deeper until like some others
on this forum - you'll have it down to a fine art.

Cheers.

P,

The editorial was written before the meeting and expresses the editors opinion of what should happen not what has happened. Secondly, I notice that excluded from the editorial (and most commentary from Indonesia) is turning back the boats. This is most probably because turning back the boats has nothing to do with Indonesia's sovereignty.

The abject failure of Dudd or Juliar at the Bali process to achieve anything is due to the generalized nature of the Bali process that applies to all 45 members, and similar to the UN has turned into a talkfest where much is said, and little is done.

A bilateral meeting will deal specifically with Indonesian boats leaving Indonesia, with Indonesian crews heading for Australia, and the generalities of regional problems are abandoned for specifics of a local problem. Abbott in a few weeks has trumped anything done by labor in 5 years.

Yes, reading anything but News Ltd
prejudices one so.

<<Yes, reading anything but News Ltd
prejudices one so>>

Say's someone who thinks New Matilda is balance and fair.

ROFL

SM,

"This is most probably because turning back the boats has nothing to do with Indonesia's sovereignty."

Well, Tony seems to have stepped back a tad on his party's chest-thumping rhetoric of late...but you would, being the guest of Indonesia.

Of course, you ignore the fact that Mr Abbott has forced onto the back foot to give such a reassurance because of the same hot-headed rhetoric.

If his government had been more circumspect in its rants, he wouldn't have need to make such a remark - it would have been taken as a given.

"Indonesian foreign minister Marty Natalegawa says he is not sure what Mr Abbott's pledge means for his policies.

"We'll have to wait and see, don't we. What am I to say? I mean, we'll see," Mr Natalegawa said."

Foxy,

A typical idiotic comment considering none of the quotes were from Newscorp. No wonder left whingers are so fond of censorship.

Gawd, SM,

You really are some spectacular spin machine.

".....No wonder left whingers are so fond of censorship."

Grotty opportunistic LNP censorship off the agenda...is it?

Hope you enjoy watching Tony bumble (embarrassingly) through the visit...because they'll be shoving him back in his box the minute he arrives home.

Parrot,

Abbott has achieved in one week what Labor failed to do in 5 years. The bilateral meetings have a far greater chance of reaching real solutions.

And differing from Labor, each discussion will not be broadcast.

Abbott has promised to respect the sovereignty of Indonesia, in small words for the left whingers:
Turning back of the boats will not occur in Indonesian waters without their co operation, Intelligence gathering / buy backs will be done in co operation with Indonesia not alone.

Boat arrivals have dropped drastically, and who ever arrives is sent within 48hrs to Nauru or Manus, not labor's pitiful gesture of a few asylum seekers of thousands.

Poirot, "Hope you enjoy watching Tony bumble (embarrassingly) through the visit...because they'll be shoving him back in his box the minute he arrives home"

Negative speculative gossip. Your Twitter source and started by you. Too many fruity Martinis and over-tight corsets affecting your thinking? LOL

otb, SM,

You're both full of it.

"Abbott has promised to respect the sovereignty of Indonesia..."

As I pointed out, it's an indictment upon the conduct of this govt that he should have to highlight such a fundamental aspect of our relationship.

He only announced such a thing because his govt had dented the relationship to such an extent, that it became an issue.

How long has this joker been in power?

And already he's having to reassure a close neighbour against the prospect of their sovereignty being disrespected.

The Abbott govt created that circumstance - no-one else.

Tony was forced to drop the bravado he and his cronies adopt for domestic consumption.

Backing away, tip-toeing, he knows he'll have to rely on diplomacy and co-operation.

Piorot,

<<Tony [is]...Backing away... yada yada yada >>

That's not the way I heard it. Did you hear his interview or, are your as usual reading what some lefty reporter is telling you he said?

Poirot,

This is not Twitter. You are becoming strident, hysterical and endlessly repetitive.

Take an Earl Grey, a brace of your favourite 'low-fat' choc-chip muffins with double cream topping and a rest.

Dear Poirot,

I watched the interview in full.

It made me cringe.

Where was the leader this country deserved?

If he crawled any further up the Indonesian President's
rear - Abbott would have been behind him.

Than I watched the Indonesian female Pollie on Lateline
and she had the typical Indonesian demeanour making it
quite clear that it was not against any law in
Indonesia to take people by boat to anywhere these
people wanted to go (including Australia). They were
not "people smugglers," they were merely providing a
"service." And so on and so forth.

What exactly did Mr Abbott achieve? Except kiss backsides
big time.

I guess Mr Abbott finds that of all the available
alternatives - kissing rear-ends is best.

Foxy, "If he crawled any further up the Indonesian President's
rear - Abbott would have been behind him"

Foxy, "What exactly did Mr Abbott achieve? Except kiss backsides
big time"

Foxy, "I guess Mr Abbott finds that of all the available
alternatives - kissing rear-ends is best"

Says the poster who is forever lecturing others on how to conduct a debate.

You are constantly revealing your origins. LOL

Poirot,

The only idiots that were using megaphone diplomacy were labor trying to embarrass Indonesia for rank political ends. The stupidest most offensive move to Indonesia was the suspension of the live cattle export business.

Abbott has only been in power for 2 weeks and already he is repairing the damage done by Labor.

Foxy,

Drug smugglers are also "providing a service" the question is whether it is legal to cram people into unsafe boats. Who does this idiot Indonesian poly think is responsible for people drowning?

Foxy "I watched the interview in full" ?

I think Foxy must be joshing. I've looked high and low but I can't see the Abbott interview annnnywhere on New Matilda!

Gentlemen,

We've had Tony Abbott touring the country warning us
day in and day out of the looming crisis in border
security telling us over and over again that
the government's duty is to the Australian people not
the Indonesian. And now with his first visit to
Indonesia - all of that disappears and nothing but
praise is heaped on to the point that leaves us
wondering ...

As Mr Downer rightly stated - the Indonesians are only
concerned with "Indonesian sovereignty" but what about
"Australian sovereignty?" Our PM telling them how much
Australia has to learn from Indonesia - and apologising
to Indonesia reminded
me of the brown-nosing of John Howard with George W.
However, let's see what he does next for the Australian
people.

BTW: SPQR - the interview between Tony Abbott and the Indonesian
President was telecast live on TV. I'm surprised that you
weren't aware of that. Most informed people were.

cont'd ...

I'm flattered by all your attention.
You sweet, kind man.

As for your reference to my "origins?"

I don't have to limbo under my family tree.;-)

Hi Foxy,

Since you are so well informed, can you quote the comments of Tony Abbott that indicated: <<If he crawled any further up the Indonesian President's rear - Abbott would have been behind him >> Tony Abbotts exact words --not your take on them-- I mean if they had such a impact on you I am sure you can recall them word for word!

<<SPQR - the interview between Tony Abbott and the Indonesian President was telecast live on TV. I'm surprised that you weren't aware of that. Most informed people were>> Foxy I was there ...and shared a dish of nasi goreng with Bambang Yudhoyono afterwards!

Dear SPQR,

Good.
I'm pleased that you were there
becaue you will fully understand as to what
upset me so greatly and there's no need to refer you
to any transcript or for you to Google things for yourself.
Thanks for that.

Foxy, "reminded me of the brown-nosing .."

added to your previous,

Foxy, "If he crawled any further up the Indonesian President's
rear - Abbott would have been behind him"

Foxy, "What exactly did Mr Abbott achieve? Except kiss backsides
big time"

Foxy, "I guess Mr Abbott finds that of all the available
alternatives - kissing rear-ends is best"

Foxy setting the tone of the debate.

Nice form Abbott, apologizing for a call made by our government (halting live cattle shipments) that the majority of the general public supported at that time, for good reason. Indonesia reacting as it did over this was vengeful, so why do WE apologize? Obsequious, and he's openly set a precedent in exposing Australia's disunity, which is not tolerable in a family member. If he's not going to back us in he should STFU.

On boats, there is no regional agreement with Indonesia and boats will leave from there as they like, entering international waters where Australia has no jurisdiction and no right to divert any boat from its course. When boats reach Australian waters claiming asylum, their claim is processed immediately as "rejected", by our navy acting on government orders, and they are ordered to leave Australian waters (to go where?). Then the bungs are pulled and the boat scuttled leaving our navy in the predicament of adhering to UN maritime convention, which we can only hope it does as we've already ignored our obligation under the UN refugee convention by then.

If anything will work to stop the boats it will be to let boat-scuttlers drown or to continue to processing and asylum in PNG. Whatever happens we're only going to know about it what Morrison decideshe wants us to know. Will canon-rounds be used to deter boats as happened under Howard? Will naval logs be comprehensive and available for scrutiny? We have a right to know at every moment of every day what our government is doing in our name. This is not wartime.

So what has Abbott achieved other than to con a majority of Australians into voting for him then pacifying Indonesia over everything he said in the election campaign regarding boat, as well as apologizing for our past d principled actions over live exports? Why aren't you haters annoyed with him given he's turned out to be such a pussy?

He really does need a lesson in etiqette too. He almost ate the Indonesians, gripping arms and getting very close up.

etiquette

Foxy,

wiggle, wiggle ...you'd go well on "Dancing With the Stars"--And Poirot has the hide to talking about Abbott's "BACKDOWN"!

Foxy:"[Look it up on Google]...you will fully understand as to what upset me so greatly"
Ahh Foxy, I couldn't possible do it justice -- no one else could see things the way you do...thank God!

Dear SPQR,

Yes. I am a Goddess.
Thank You!

Dear OTB,

I always like to draw attention
to someone's best "asset." ;-)

Actually, before anyone fires up, I've just seen footage where he's toned the grip right down, someone's giving him the right steer.

Luciface,

Stopping the live cattle trade was the singularly greatest diplomatic blunder in decades, and an apology was long overdue. Abbott has now re established the live cattle trade and repaired much of the labor damage.

It looks as though the coalition has re affirmed its credentials as far more competent in foreign affairs than labor.

Sticks and stones, remember that SM? why did you make me think of that?
Seems Abbott has banned all menu's from Parliament house.
He tells us what to eat so he says.
Rupert wants only one paper/comic book sold there too, the Australian, a criminals guide to shifty stuff, alternative names are tell them nothing or anything.

"Abbott has now re established the live cattle trade"
Has he? How do you measure that? Where are we now compared to three weeks ago, say?

Has he promised the Indo's they can abuse animals to their hearts' content and we'll turn a blind eye?

Has Abbott apologized in the hope everything returns to the way it was, including export volume and cruelty to animals?

We won't know anything because his discussions are a secret. Sshhh, we're at war and loose lips sink ships.

SM,

"It looks as though the coalition has re affirmed its credentials as far more competent in foreign affairs than labor."

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/abbotts-local-press-event-shuts-out-local-reporters/

"Despite Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s push to strengthen ties with Indonesia during a meeting with business and government delegates on Tuesday morning, a press conference following the breakfast was restricted to the Australian media.

Local media, including the Jakarta Globe, were not allowed to attend the press briefing that saw Abbott and Australia’s foreign minister, Julie Bishop, speak with Australian media.

Umar Idris, the chairman of the Jakarta branch of the Alliance of Independent Journalists (AJI), said it was the first time he had heard of a case where local journalists had been excluded from a conference, and condemned the move."

The first time....

These idiots are cowboys.

Further to, from http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/more-needed-to-encourage-live-cattle-trade-from-australia-to-indonesia-tony-abbott-20131001-2uq6g.html

"Indonesia is facing a shortage of cattle and skyrocketing prices after its disastrous introduction in 2011 of a self-sufficiency program. Mr Abbott blamed that policy on Australia's short-lived ban on live cattle imports in the wake of animal cruelty revelations, but it has as much to do with Indonesian economic nationalism."

So the live cattle trade was affected by internal Indonesian policy on food production which has failed and the policy is being reversed.

If export volumes improve it will have nothing to do with Abbott's sickening, obsequious apology.

On another matter, Barnaby Joyce won't be happy with the Indo plan to buy our grazing land and vertically integrate our national produce into its needs. Why don't we sell 51 year leases instead of freehold?

Don't give the Johnny-come-lately Tony Abbott any credit, it was Kevin Rudd and Labor who, with a great to-do at the time abolished the successful Howard solution, managing to create a market and cash windfall for the criminal gangs in people smuggling.

Julia Whatshername and her Greens sidekicks with Bob Brown at the helm also deserve credit for their role in facilitating the people smuggling trade,

http://www.frequency.com/video/julia-gillard-bob-brown-australia-youre/13937776

To top it all off it was Kevin Rudd again who, for short-term gain during Julia Whatshername's ill-fated 12 month election campaign, ill-advisedly politicised relations between Indonesia and Australia, and make a stack of expensive promises to Indonesia.

Supporters of Julia Whatshername would argue that the Real Julia had more of a hand in the people smuggling pie than that &^%*%^ Rudd would ever admit and it is his fault and his misogyny that she doesn't get all of the credit she truly deserves for the expensive mess. As well, the Grrls of Emily's List are just not getting the credit they are due for stuffing State and now federal Labor as well. Discriiiiiimmmmmination! Misogyny!!

otb,

Nice to see "Mr I'll Defend Women's Honour" refers repeatedly to Julia Gillard as Julia Whatshername.

Does he give the male leaders the same treatment?

Lets have a look...

"To top it all off it was Kevin Rudd..."

No?

"....her Greens sidekicks with Bob Brown..."

No?

".... it was Kevin Rudd and Labor who..."

No?

"Don't give the Johnny-come-lately Tony Abbott any credit..."

No?

Lol!

Abbott's apology to Indonesia for the live cattle ban was for a great injustice done to thousands of those that lost their jobs and millions of the poor that saw basic food become scarce and expensive.

The apology was in line with Dudd's obsequious apology to the stolen generations for injustices committed by previous governments.

The immediate increase in live cattle quota by 20% this week is directly due to Abbott's statesmanship, compared to the idiocy of the previous 6 years.

"Abbott's statesmanship"

A candidate for today's best oxymoron.

You've really got it bad, SM, if you think Abbott's halting performance was an example of "statesmanship".

"The apology was in line with Dudd's obsequious apology to the stolen generations for injustices committed by previous governments."

Really? You are one lost soul if you equate those. The Australian government is a continuum and we do not blame one parliament for one thing and another for the other. Furthermore, it was a deserved apology and internal, none of this international forelock-tugging. Abbott is a tugger alright, and a pussy.

"....Abbott's statesmanship", hohoho, don't you mean Indonesia's need? It will import no more and no less than it needs under its quota system designed to encourage national self-sufficiency

An example of the the flavour of this policy is at http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/04/18/govt-increase-import-quota-prime-cuts-beef.html

You really do cause me giggles at times, Shal, such is your desperation to make every LNP move appear swan-like and graceful. How about less secrecy for starters, so we really know what's going on under the water, as is our right?

P, Lucyface,

You left whingers are hilarious, you are all fighting a battle that was lost a long time ago. Abbott thrashed Labor and the greens. You can't bring yourself to admit that so far he has proved himself a better statesman than either Dudd or Juliar.

Fortunately the rest of Australia does not agree with you. As in the SMH

"Tony Abbott has emerged from bilateral talks with his Indonesian counterpart, President Susilo Bambang Yodhoyono, genuinely able to say that the bilateral relationship has been strengthened. Quite an achievement given the dire warnings of imminent relationship breakdown over his ultra-tough border protection policies...

Surprisingly, the newly elected Abbott was not just sure-footed but flexible, showing no need for ''L-plates'' on his first outing on the international stage. Rather, he projected strength and purpose in Australia's interests, and respect and sensitivity for the host country."

You should give your Prime Minister some credit.

"....Rather, he projected strength and purpose in Australia's interests, and respect and sensitivity for the host country."

What he did was back-pedal a hundred miles per hour - because all of his turn back/ buy the boats chest-thumping was for domestic consumption to win an election.

Faced with the reality of dealing with a neighbour of no small quantity, his pre-election jockeying can be seen for the fiction it was.

I'm not surprised he tip-toed around like the novice he is.

On the subject of statesmanship...how is barring Indonesian journalists acting statesmanlike?..after a full on state visit?

Can you imagine what would have been said if Obama had tried the same insulting stunt on Australian journalists during his visit?

Abbott is not a statesman's bootlace.

Not trying to be a smarty or to annoy any one.
But already Abbott has feet of clay.
Those thinking he is a savior are in for sad times.
Locking his crew up not allowing free comment.
Backing away from his date to get the budget balanced.
Nearly destroying his relationship with Indonesia.
Not telling us how many boar arrivals are coming.
The man is a fraud.
Rupert seems to have him on the leash reserved for people he owns and Tony is OK with that, but not his party.
Rumbles of true discontent are here already watch for the storm by mid next year.

There are some very short memories being paraded here.

In her quest to buy Australia a place on UN's Security Council and to promote herself, Julia Whatshername's very frequent trips abroad always featured the golden shower of millions of taxpayers' dollars in foreign aid. The fortunate recipients didn't have to ask for it. Meanwhile at home the survivors of catastrophic floods were all but forgotten.

Rudd was the same. Who can forget Rudd's shower of gold for Indonesia when he regrettably politicised Indonesia-Australia relations hoping to prove he was a diplomat and to score political points against Abbott?

<A GIFT-LADEN Mr Kevin Rudd will arrive in Indonesia today for his first overseas visit since his reinstatement as Australia's Prime Minister, amid fierce criticisms of his "irresponsible" warnings of a possible conflict with Jakarta.

Mr Rudd is set to present numerous gifts to Indonesia's President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, including second-hand C-130 Hercules planes, Customs patrol boats and substantial development aid, all worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

In return, Mr Rudd is seeking to persuade Jakarta to crack down on the flow of asylum-seeker boats that sail from Indonesia to Australia - an issue that, perhaps more than any other, threatens his prospects of winning Australia's upcoming election, particularly if he fails to stem the flow.

Mr Rudd will also try to revive live cattle exports to Indonesia, which halved its imports after Australia suspended the trade in 2011 amid concerns of cruelty at Indonesian abattoirs.>

http://www.stasiareport.com/the-big-story/asia-report/indonesia/story/asylum-seekers-top-rudds-indonesia-agenda-20130704

OTB,

Yup!

Labor = lots of talking and no results.

Coalition = Less spin, and more results.

just great to have adults back at the helm despite having to clean up the childrens mess. One day they might learn to do it themselves but from Gillards whinge and victimhood speach you can see they have learn't zero.

Yes indeed, Mr Abbott has discovered that it is
very different being in government than in opposition.
When Labor wanted a regional solution to the problem
of asylum seekers and regional co-operation, the
opposition wouldn't have a bar of it. Yet, now that
Mr Abbott's the new PM - and after meeting Indonesian
President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono Mr Abbott acknowledges
that, "it would be much better if the co-operation was
at the bilateral level." Mr Abbott has now gone from
boat tow-backs to "total respect for Indonesia's
sovereignty, a total respect for Indonesia's territorial
integrity."

And to sweeten the people smuggling pill, Mr Abbott has
annouced a $15 million commitment to a new Australian Centre
for Indonesia Studies based at Melbourne's Monash University,
to "build trust and understanding" between the two countries.
He even apologised in a dinner speech for Australia cancelling
the live cattle trade. Will he sell Australian land to Indonesia?
And what other concessions will be made?

Interesting times lie ahead.

Not as hard for Tony to get on his knees Foxy.
All that bike riding gets him in position to both do that at back peddle at speed.

He even apologised in a dinner speech ..Interesting times lie ahead.
Foxy,
Indeed, here simply is no comparison with Rudd. Abbott will improve our economy whereas Rudd, well, we've seen what he achieved or rather the lack of it.

Belly,
yes, much better to peddle back than plunging head-first like Rudd don't you think ?

But, individual, Abbott only put on his wimpy act for the benefit of the Indonesians (who I'm sure will now have it confirmed how shifty and disingenuous he is)

Here's big tough guy, Morrison, revealing Abbott's "back-pedalling" was all a bit of theatre for the occasion, as Tony has bit of trouble sticking to his guns when he's forced to rely on more than tacky slogans - especially when confronted with an event of this magnitude..

From ABC News:

"Immigration Minister Scott Morrison says there will be no change to Australia's border protection policies despite an apparent softening in the Prime Minister's language around the issue earlier this week.

Some media had questioned whether Tony Abbott's comments in Indonesia signalled the Coalition was abandoning its plan to buy asylum seeker boats from Indonesian fishermen.

Questions had also been raised about whether the Government was still committed to turning asylum seeker boats back to Indonesia.

"I wish to stress that the full arsenal of measures represented in the Coalition's policies to stop the boats remain available to be deployed by the Government," Mr Morrison said."

Funny how Lib apologist, Andrew Bolt, claims that the Libs never had a tow back policy.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/how_the_abc_frames_tony_abbott/

Abbott said:

"....Can I just scotch this idea that the Coalition’s policy is or ever has been tow-backs..."

Not according to then Shadow Justice Minister, Michael Keenan, in 2011 who waxes lyrical on the merits of "towing the boats back":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a55I1Vz5EWk

More lies and spin from the Coalition.