With both leaders pledging to reboot manufacturing here, it is quite obvious they are both in la la land, as the only thing that will make manufacturing viable here, is welfare.

I say this because we have a unique situation, whereby wages are now too high for manufacturers to compete, yet, at the same time, these same wages are barely enough to survive on. That's SURVIVE, not LIVE.

So, it is my view that the only way to reboot our manufacturing, is for government to maintain real wages, while providing assistance to the manufacturers, in other words, wages must fall, and government must plug the gap.

Good luck with that, because one, we have no money left, and two, we have no money left.

Not only that, but we also have labors huge debt to service, along with labors unfunded promises to fund, and Kevins ongoing illegals debacle.

What idiot is going to start manufacturing something in Australia when they can hire employees in China and a lot of other countries.

For 1 months work overseas, in Australia you would be lucky to get 1.5 days work for the same dollar amount.

The only way to lower wages is an across the board percentage cut on everything.
No good cutting blue collar wages if dentists, doctors,lawyers and everyone else doesn't also.
Also if the wages get dropped business would need to drop prices instead of sit back and enjoy the profit windfall.

The only way I see that happen is in the event of another World War.

Can't see any substantial increase in manufacturing in Aus.

All our manufacturing investors went overseas, since Whitlam abolished tariffs. That is obvious to anyone that goes to a shop, as there are no, or very few, Aus made goods available.

The parties will soon forget their promises after the election.

Such a pity and if some countries engage in war (like china and japan) we will be short of goods. I feel for our future generations.

For Australia to compete in Australia against imported goods and services we must impose wage parody as tariffs to keep our people employed. It is pointless offering higher education in the hope we will build a better all employed society to people who have no desire to be higher educated or of lower IQ who prefer to work with their hands.

Australia has always been a producer of raw materials that have been processed here and created some of the worlds leading inventions. We had a clean food production that has given way to cheap imports and the introduction of diseases and inferior products.

Phillip, wage costs to businesses will have to drop for us to have any chance of competing in the future, BUT, governments must plug the gap, so the workers are no worse off. That is the key, most likely unaffordable, but the key none the less.

As for reducing profits, no, that shouldn't happen, because these profits will be needed to fund investment, the investment that will be needed to boost manufacturing.

You see governments prefer to assist business with borrowings, but refuse to attack the MAIN PROBLEM, wage costs.

As for China, those days are numbered, as their youth, tomorrow's workers, want what we have, and that will put huge pressure on China itself.

So the day may come where China ceases to be the manufacturing supe power, not in my life time perhaps, but it may well happen.

As we speak, Americas unions are pushing for a doubling of the minimum wage, and this could have huge implications with industries such as hospitality, because although the wages are very low, many do very well through their personal ability to attract tips.

Interesting times ahead, but our manufacturing businesses simply can't bring about rebuilding our industry without serious government assistance, and simply allowing an excelerated writing off of equipment is not the answer.

I am convinced that if we are to reinvent manufacturing here, governments need to plug the gap between affordable wages, and a livable wage.

Wages are only a part of the problem, & even a fairly minor part at that, in many areas.

I have mentioned here before, that I had to go offshore for some products, that were making here, or go out of business.

I could have solid brass chrome plated products, assembled with rubber gaskets, delivered into my Brisbane store, first from Taiwan, & then from China, for less than the cost of the brass to machine them from in Brisbane.

These products were being made from our copper & zinc ore. There is not a great deal of labour involved in refining metal, certainly no more than in transshipping it to Asia, & back from Asia, so I think there is something other than wages pushing up our prices.

We are being ripped off somewhere, somehow, & I don't have the knowledge of the metal industry to know where or how.

It is a similar situation in the car industry. Cars today are made mostly by robots. Labour must be a greatly diminished component of manufacture, unless over manning & ridiculously high wage rates are being paid.

I have heard of low skilled assembly workers getting $100,000 a year. If this is so, little wonder we are going out of business. The unions destroyed the British manufacturing industries, particularly the car industry, & it looks like our turn has come.

rehctub - Quote "As for China, those days are numbered, as their youth, tomorrow's workers, want what we have, and that will put huge pressure on China itself."

I don't know where you got that but a lot of Chinese young do have a lot of what we have, there is upward pressure on wages but not enough to get anywhere near closing the gap between Chinese and Australian wages. In the Australian wages we need to include many other charges compulsory superannuation, insurance, gov red tape, work place environment, the building etc.

If wages go up too much business will move to India.

half the living costs=rent!
so govt must stop giving tax breaks..
for clever folks who make renters payoff..their cashcow..

any aid..giving by govt to...'investers'..buying up every cheap
would be better spent..on therenter bying back their squat

china works..cause most dont pay rent
cause most still..have farms..and because farmers cant get dole

so lets stop giving miners 12 billion fuel subsidy
[only to have computers drive their subsidized truck's]..and give a job back to the driver..

after all the driver..pays fuel tax..
plus by 2015..c02 tax on top..plus gst..
govt must only give aid..to the poor/individual's..

not the corp-oration...person
nor the loud persistant..collusive lobby
nor trust's..nor/incorporated/limited liability..quango'$

especially..not any..in tax free havens..
washing clean the rent and tax refunds/grants/bailouts..reaped in from govt..squeaky wheel..largess

let the rich..EARN.our pennies
decentralize..specialize..speculate..

teach kids
how..the system works
how they too..can scam the lurks..off the govt cash trough..
and get mug renters*..SIC*..to PAY_OFF..their in*vestment..for them and their..selfish-essences.. too.

rehctub has valid a point,

It is a changing world and the changes are leaving much, but not all, of our manufacturing industry isolated.

Globalised markets, energy and wages costs are critical for survival.

We have a population of about 23Bn, Shanghai alone has 26Bn and some 25 other cities in Asia have more population that our country. Unless we have an export market many times greater than our domestic market, it will fail.

We are already seeing some of our competitors shifting their manufacturing bases away from traditional low wages regions to low energy cost regions. The USA has already repatriated dozens of US corporate facilities from Asia/China back to the USA, TATA is doing the same in Europe and VW’s latest plant will be in Washington State. Gas prices in the USA are 60% less than the EU.

The crazy thing is that USA is also benefitting from increases in coal exports, particularly to Europe with Germany alone increasing hard coal imports by 17%.

So Australia suffers from high energy costs, high wages costs, limited export markets, increased competition and a limited domestic market.

rehctub is right, our manufacturing will soon be visiting Centrelink

rehctub has valid a point,

It is a changing world and the changes are leaving much, but not all, of our manufacturing industry isolated.

Globalised markets, energy and wages costs are critical for survival.

We have a population of about 23Bn, Shanghai alone has 26Bn and some 25 other cities in Asia have more population that our country. Unless we have an export market many times greater than our domestic market, it will fail.

We are already seeing some of our competitors shifting their manufacturing bases away from traditional low wages regions to low energy cost regions. The USA has already repatriated dozens of US corporate facilities from Asia/China back to the USA, TATA is doing the same in Europe and VW’s latest plant will be in Washington State. Gas prices in the USA are 60% less than the EU.

The crazy thing is that USA is also benefitting from increases in coal exports, particularly to Europe with Germany alone increasing hard coal imports by 17%.

So Australia suffers from high energy coasts, high wages costs, limited export markets increased competition and a limited domestic market.

rehctub is right, our manufacturing will soon be visiting Centrelink

Yes Spindoc, Insourcing is all the go in the US.
The exact same conditions should happen here for the same reasons.
Unless the IR and some other conditions are fixed it will not happen.

National service would be a great start to stabilise wages & re-boot manufacturing here. As I have said so many times here, start providing overseas aid with locally manufactured, tents, wheel barrows, shovels etc. instead of simply sending millions in cash. Start manufacturing smaller & less fancy cars, start building small aircraft, start building small scale & gradually it will build on itself. It's called making money go round then out the window. Vote conservative next election.

Hi Bazz,

Yes, if we had any overseas manufacturing interests that we could repatriate, now would be the time.

Not sure I can think of any though? Any nominations?

You missed the point, or did you ?;
The US is not so much repatriating their own firms but not using
overseas manufacturers.
What we would do is put the importers out of work by manufacturing
locally.
That is what we are doing in furniture manufacturing here and now.

Bazz importers can become manufacturers if they so wish. At the same time, importers employ a fraction of the labor, & in many instances user up foreign exchange better used on something more productive than domestic furniture & equipment.

All too often manufacturers are forced to become importers, by the costs of local production, & competition from those who choose to be importers. I hated it. When I first saw my companies import volume exceed our export volume I felt physically sick. I could see the future of our kids disappearing overseas, because of stupid government decisions.

I used to be the technical service officer for a plastics raw material supplier. I used to help the design & manufacturing staff, & even marketing staff, of 7 different TV manufacturers. Most of these produced radios & many other appliances, all in Sydney.

I dealt with 5 refrigerator manufacturers, 5 washing machine manufacturers, & a dozen producing small to medium appliances. The employment in the manufacturing of these goods was in the thousands, before you went into their distribution activities.

They are all gone now, replaced by a few importers. many of those workers are never going to be paper shufflers in some public service office, they need real jobs, not make believe.

hasbeen..i recall those days..[when tariff protection]
allowed us to make things[at twice the price]..so yes we could afford to make them..but were stuck paying top shelf price.

few may recall..that italy/germany..after DEFEAT*..ww2
both were set up according to their strengths..italy making the exclusivehigh price junk..germany the machines..of mass production...and big infrastructure machines..[to rebuild that destroyed by war]

the japs fit in there with the making of junk quality
that eventually became better..but not great..thing is we got enough junk

and its far cheaper to buy better quality elsewhere
far better if we taught..kids to fix/repair..[like soling shoes..or fixing a broken heating element..or improved hard drive..[ie keep in good repair..the stuff we use a few times..[or once]..then throway

WHY DO WE LET THE WORKMANS TOOLS OF TRADE GO OS?
in..the old days tradesmen..got a sack..
with which to carry their TOOLS home in

ok
if gm..goes
the machines stay!

put an EXPORT..tarrif
on the machines..classified as recyclables..
when big business runs overseas..*with their machines..

effectively..*paid for via..too generous tax write/off claims..at tax times..

thanks be due to..govt favor/collusion/bribe [ie corporate welfare]..subsidies and favorable terms...mates rates and treaties

let the tradesman retain their tools
let their tools dis-assemble..that THEIR TOOLS BUILT*

the future work..will be collating..and locating
where our money went....some call it a judgment day..others simply the judgment..how much money..is too much?

in the end..its not the cash/asset that sets our worth
but what you chose to do with it..when you did

What Under God has not taken into account is that it was manufacturing
that trained those Mr Fixit tradesmen with their bag of tools.
Remember the time when even the local radio shop would take in all
sorts of appliances for repair.
I cut my electrical teeth as a teenager in one of those shops every
saturday morning.

I guess that is why I cringe everytime I see a toaster with a burntout
element on the nature strip.

If we started to repair everything instead of buying new there are not
enough competitent people to do the job.
It will take many years to train such a large group.
So, the question is how do we transition to such a state ?

If we do not do it in a planned way, it will be thrust upon us by the
cost of international transport and wages making imports too expensive.
As I have mentioned previously this has already started a few years
back in the US with steel and furniture and now with many other things.
Furniture is an obvious place to start which is why most furniture
is manufactured here. The bulk of it is costly to ship.

So how do we start ? If it is to be planned then the pollies will
have to be convinced of the inevitability of it all.
However they show no signs of being awake. I suspect Barnaby Joyce
understands but dare not speak its name.

Hasbeen, if you were dictator, how would you handle it?

<<..manufacturing..that trained those Mr Fixit tradesmen with their bag of tools>>

not so..
if you recall any..'production'..line
they consist of robotic humans..just welding..
or just painting..or just putting in the dash..or just ensuring the badge sits in the right spot..etc

its not like every true tradesman..MUST have 3 apprentices
or when the blacksmith..WROUGHT METAL..or the carpenter made furniture..factories do mundane repeating work..hence so many robots..who collectively..'make'..a car or computer...

but really most..only*know their little bit..
[ie not trained holistically..only specifically/generally]
[ie no transferable skill base..like say a baker or a butcher or even scandal stiche'..MAKER*]

we need generalist trade people
not specialists..who only know how to make buggy whips

we need to decentralize
then set up bakers/farmers/stock man.barbers.handymen
who OWN..the fruit of their labor*..as well as their TOOLS of trade/licences..franchises/working locally..serving the local need on their turf.

I really think UOG does not undewrstand how factories work.
The tradesmen learnt their trade in the maintenance shop.
They worked with tradesmen on machine mainteance etc etc.
Installing new machinery fixing faults etc etc.

They seldom had any experience on production work unless
they were manufacturing electrical equipment.
They were not process workers.

So, the question is how do we transition to such a state ?
Bazz,
With a national service, that's how ! We need to get the bright ones out of the indoctrination clinics & into a national service to give them a chance to be able to think. The rest will fall into place rather quickly.

BAZZ..quote<<..I really think UOG does not understand how factories work.>>

i have worked at dandy/kr/goldencircle so know 'factories'
done a lot of shutdowns/began at woolies even tanned/classed leather
and a panel beating shop/mexican food joint..plus some contracted work

i presume to know..something..re factories

<<The tradesmen learnt their trade in the maintenance shop.>>

lol the maintenance shop..
i worked in them..too
in the electrical generation/aluminaplants/fertilizer 'factories'

<<They worked*with tradesmen
on machine mainteance etc etc.>>

yes i too have oiled and greased..
replaced broken bits..etc..retubed condenser's..replaced bearings

<<Installing new machinery fixing faults etc etc.>>

ditto

so i can agree

<<They seldom had any experience..on production work ..>>
<<They were not process workers.>>

nor am i

even during my national service
i was at raeme..still repairing ..broken bits

installing restoring/recovering..arms/vehicles..etc..even designed/built my own home..but that dont translate..into valid comment

so i go
leave it to the trained expert$$

UOG said;
lol the maintenance shop..
i worked in them..too
in the electrical generation/aluminaplants/fertilizer 'factories'

Well then, why don't you understand ?

Banjo>> All our manufacturing investors went overseas, since Whitlam abolished tariffs.<<

Banjo all political parties were and are in favour of abolishing tariffs. The IMF and the bloody U.N. call the shots regardless of who we vote for. For some reason the gravity and net result of letting them strip us of our protectionism is something the "average" Aussie either does not know, understand, or believe. But given the entire first world has been stripped of manufacturing, I don't hear the Northern Hemisphere denizens screaming for the introduction of protectionism......sheeeple just like us.

…take a peek at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9aHC2tSmRM

sonofgloin,

Thanks for the youtube link concerning the Lima Declaration.
Most interesting; much food for thought; very relevant to the discussion on this thread.
Highly recommended for a look by all interested in this discussion.

How to lift Oz out of the current downward manufacturing and industrial spiral will be interesting indeed. Wages, conditions, government red-tape and cost impositions, and our governments' inability or unwillingness to support the development of local industry (as distinct from our overseas-owned automotive industry), are all relevant, and it appears that our government's commitment to the Lima Declaration substantially locks us in to this road to our own self-destruction.
Our only out may come when we are no longer considered a 'developed' nation - but by then our 'resurrection' would be very hard indeed.
The sooner we can opt out of the Lima Declaration the better - particularly as it appears that its key underlying objective is to keep the world's bankers rolling in 'the green', by exploiting both the 'developed' and the 'developing' nations; and with the UN taking a cut of the action.

The opposite tack - towards protectionism and self-sufficiency - may provide our only escape from this looming vortex.
We must ensure our assured long-term ability to export more than we import, but without destroying our environment to do it - as could occur if we mined everything without due regard for downstream consequences - and this can only be guaranteed if we are able to establish a large and comprehensive manufacturing capability, by whatever means necessary, no ifs or buts.

I look forward to our governments addressing this need, and hopefully sooner rather than later.
The clock is ticking; but Nero appears to be fiddling - if not unconcernedly asleep at his post.

i heard today
that windup's declaring bankruptcy
are 60%..by govt agencies hands

2 per day
that took wage tax..but didnt pay it to tax office etc
who took..from wage earner..yet wage isnt income

govt sent them broke first
thats a worry