I've done a blog post on it http://www.ambitgambit.com/2013/08/12/why-abbott-won-the-debate/, and while I think Abbott won the debate he could have lost by a little and still won.

Rudd obviously thought the debate could provide him with a silver bullet, but rather than that he missed Abbott, and came out looking a little shifty.

I can imagine all those Western Sydney types shaking their heads that he didn't seem to know about the Badgery's Creek Airport proposal.

So, no matter which way I score the performances, I see the outcome as damage to Rudd.

But that's just what I think.

as krudd NEEDED A CLEAR WIN*
and at best*..drew a draw..tony won

but of truth..
if they are our best..we all loose

playing safe ..will backfire
recall lathums absurdly aggressive handshake
or childish sin spin..kiddies over board..the times shape the man

till one or other..begins doing
as we saw jesus do..;ie helping the poor sick abused
overworked..overtaxed..over policed..

not just the swinger voter
or the fo-cuss group

Hi GY,

I think today’s highly orchestrated debates are just a big set up for the media “gotcha”.

It’s not surprising that the candidates are overly cautious. I did watch it but to me it was always going to be a Q&A in waiting. Not impressed with David Spears, never good when a moderator joins the fray.

Judging by the Sports bet odds this morning this did not go at all well for the ALP, they are now out to $5.50 with Abbott unbackable at $1.15. I guess that sounds about right to me.

Abbott seemed to have won.
But he was helped by Rudd.
The second Sydney air port remark was an own goal.
His now deputy has been working hard to get it done.
And NSW Barry O Farrell just as hard stopping it.
Rudd did not press home the 70 billion Abbott needs to find, based on Hocky,s words.
And Let Abbott get away with not talking about his green house gas reduction scheme.
Not over yet and no easy task for Labor, but I would have thought Rudd would have learned from Obama talking over the moderator and past his turn.
Like Obama he can come back and win but it will take more than last nights effort.

i agree with grayham/belly..the 2de airport was an own goal
till then kevin at least tried to debate..

but the moderator..fox/dude?..
wanted too much to be seen to be..in control

tony did appear to be more camera focused
but i watched the worm turn..[the people of the worm gave it clearly to krudd]

i would like to say i wont watch..the next one
but its like a train wreck..cause kevin GOT rushed into the election

un moderated..or of/to specific topic may be better
but these things are too formatted..and tony wont be risking that

krudd should have pushed more
to say WHO..will you sell nbn..to
how does the mining tax cut..help..the little guy

if only '500'..[250]..are paying juliars green c02 tax
how come millions..are feeling the pain

why didnt..low c02 users get the free tax credits
how come service access fee/charges costs the same for big ab-users..as the small user[50%..of my bill..is acces/gst etc charges]

there maybe a 2de..de-bait
but i will warrant..there wont be no third

Belly I think you will find Rudd did not mention any 70 billion, because old mate there aint none, he knows it, & talking about would make him look even more stupid than he did.

He can't talk about global warming, as there aint none. Hasn't been for 16 years & he damn well knows it. It was a hoax all along. Bring it up now & what is happening in Europe, with them all getting out of it as fast as they can run, will come to light, & make him look even more stupid than he did after his Copenhagen extravaganza turned into a catastrophe.

Mate he is a dead man walking, & good riddance to bad rubbish. It is all over, & I'll even bet you a day lily on it.

Even the great John Howard could not come back from where this fool has got himself.

Belly>> Abbott seemed to have won.
But he was helped by Rudd.<<

Yes china I believe that is an apt appraisal. Kev was definitely off for some reason, not disastrous but not his usual fluidity of spin… can’t put my finger on it, but not on top of his game.

Abbott was the probably at the top of his game, as uninspiring as it was, but he is a plodder.
He managed to say the right things most of the time and did stay on task. But he never looked at ease, as if he is always ready to pounce. Intense personas leave people uncomfortable and distanced from the orator.

Kev will always outshine Abbott when it comes to presentation, but given whatever amount of integrity each of these men possess…..Abbott has substantially more.

As you know I am not keen on Abbott because of Hanson, but the real Kev, the power and control hungry Kev just plain disgusts me.

“Wheres my special f'ing dinner”
“Do you know I am the PM and I want my f'ing dinner.
“What sort of air stewardess are you, I’m the f'ing PM.

As I said the real Kev disgusts me.

I got word that Rudd was waffling on about how many more jobs the ALP crowd created. Apparently it's in the thousands. Does it really require that many people to work the asylum seekers ?

Indy in exactly the same fashion that immigrants are Labor fodder of the future, the expanding of the public service under Labor accomplishes the same thing immediately.

I was in Canberra the other month and colleagues down there tell me business and retailers are concerned that Abbott will put some of their customers out of work, and downturn the local economy.

My thought was so what….it happened to the rest of Australia, why not you guys. Canberans have always been weird closeted and cliquey, I try to stay in Queanbeyan when I’m down that way

....I think today’s highly orchestrated debates are just a big set up for the media “gotcha”.

I'm with you there spindoc, evidence being in that annoying worm.

The audience is supposedly exclusively undecided voters so tell me, how can they agree, disagree, only to agree again, all in the space of mere seconds.

It suggests to me that they are responding to the speaker, not the speakers words.

Yes hasbeen, he was handed enough rope, and used it well.

I said all along that the longer he delayed the election, the harder he would make the task.

At the end of the day, what does Kevin have to be posetive about and, if he has plans to fix the mess, then how long has he sat on these plans, saying, great ideas, but it's not my problem because that bitch who shafted me is PM.

As for his and labors never ending blurt about how many jobs they have created, he needs to answer a few questions.

1. Given the jobless rate has increased, doesn't that mean that more jobs have been lost, than created.

2. Of the hundreds of thousands of jobs they have created, how many are in the unemployed list.

Even tonight he is fudging figures, say they have spent more on roads than Howard did.

Well of cause they have, because they (road works) are about 300% more costly than they were back then. Dur!

He then attached Abbott about money, but hey, why does he think there's no money.

It would be interesting to find that out, as he firmly believes labor have done a Stella job.

I sure hope he hasn't unpacked his belongings in the lodge.

Finally, if he does get tossed out, he must be close to the shortest serving PM in history, to have been installed, then voted out in the space of about one month.

Rudd could not be where he is if it weren't for the silly amongst us. Those who are blessed with some sense can not be swayed by whatever this bloke comes up with.
His supporters are seeing something that's not there but because he tells them it will be there they fall for it.
Abbott made a big mistake with Hanson but he learnt quickly. He'd make an alright PM, a PM that doesn't embarrass Australians who have the interests of Australia at heart.

My view is that no one landed any punches or said anything they hadn't said before. On substance, the debate was a draw. On body language, TA looked confident and assured, while Rudd seemed shaken and trying to rattle off as much information as possible.

TA did catch Rudd in a lie over the numbers of those on Nauru that were resettled in Australia, and Rudd stupidly brought notes, and ended looking as though he was trying to cheat.

For someone that is trying to push the trust issue, this was a really bad move.

Hasbeen your self assurance is again leading you on to thin ice.
Abbott was asked the question.
Rudd did not pursue him enough on it.
And you by inference call your would be treasurer a lier.
It was him not one else who first admitted you had a 70 billion black whole.
Maths mate dump taxes and give more.
How will Abbott pay for it?

How will Abbott pay for it?
Belly,
I guess Abbott will be able to pay whilst Rudd's only got an empty till to stare at !

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>

via tax cuts tobig business

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>
by selling the nbn..to fox/agents

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>
he wont..we the tax payers will

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>
via 3 word's spin

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>
on credit..just like krudd

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>
he wont
you will

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>
he will tell you..18 hours before elect-ion day

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>
by being the small target

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>
majic number spin

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>
same way..as allways..HYPER INFLATION

<<..How will Abbott pay for it?>>
be selling telstra...or education..or universities..or privatisation

Of course we will have to pay for it OUG. But what exactly will we be paying for.

We will be paying for our own stupidity in electing Rudd first, & then Gillard, with a bit of a slight of hand involved there, but we were still guilty.

We are guilty of going blissfully about our lives, with just an occasional glance at the TV news, & not looking more closely at the rubbish we were putting into the Lodge in Canberra.

Yes now we must pay, but if we don't start now, & give this rabble another term, we will end up like Greece, with no chance of climbing out of the hole we have let them dig for us. What's more we will deserve it, & will have decades to lament our stupidity.

Belly,

Don't fib, Joe Hockey never " first admitted you had a 70 billion black whole."

And at least the libs are trying to balance the books. Labor's spending is at a record high for a decade even as a % of GDP.

Why doesn't Rudd tell the Australian voters how much money is there for an Abbott Government to take over should the Coalition win. We know how much Rudd inherited but what is leaving ?
These are the sort of figures we need to know now not after the election.

Shadow Minister..<<<..Labor's spending is at a record high for a decade even as a % of GDP.>>

lol
for a decade

THING is..if the world is broke
and we are counted among the 5..first world..*not broke
logic would dictate..our dollar EXCHANGE rate..be extreemly high
and so it was..till krudd began spending it..

EVEN howard..NEEDED to spend billions..
on bulIshi..war planes..

and krudd gave billion's aussie dollar bonds to imf..
who..*now have cashed them..bringing the dollar exchange rate down..as these trickle down the drain

thing is AT LEAST..BE HONEST*
no debt..will increase the dollars value..to a point even howard refused to go..speaking figuratively..we are not an island..as far as dollar exchange rates go

no debt=higher dollar=no manufacturing
but both sides KNOW this.

.so where phoney tony
going to put..his*..lol.. savings..
into yet another quango future fund..or usa war machines mostly made in china?

beingh debt free is fine
as long as all your mates..are debt free
but if your debt free..and the rest are broke..you willonly be bailing the bar stewards out..yet again

the one with the most cash..pays
and thats us aussie sukkers..bailing out the richer..
via beating up taxing to death..our poor..via ever more clever revenue raising law

.via ever more clever revenue raising law
under one god,
It is not clever revenue raising it is criminal extortion !

I for two days have thought about this thread.
I truly think it asks a question that should interest us all.
But note it has far less contributors than I thought it would bring.
That old saying *do not talk about politics or religion* is a way to control.
But here it seems just lately, true dislike of hearing views other than our own, about politics is on show.
What are we doing? are those on the side that faces loss, it still can be either, but we must confront an Abbott win is the most likely, is the devision to become a chasm?
Has the hung Parliament harmed the Social cohesion of this country.
Do you know I think it has.
And do those avoiding talking politics not understand why we all, both sides should value what we have Democracy.

belly/quote..<<..Has the hung Parliament..harmed the Social cohesion of this country.>>

it has divided us
so on the surface..maybe yes
but in reality..we were never really a cohesive society..

except maybe..at a local/or social level..
as in following qld/nsw..or the rabbit0's..[ie sports/intrests or political levels]

but even there..left right wing..country or western
or dived by class..location..position or means

<<...do those avoiding talking politics
not understand why we all, both sides...should value what we have Democracy>>>

lol..51 percent..winners
lording it over the other 49%..whiners
except where its 49/49..plus a green elitist global cabal adgenda

demon-autocracy
demo-crazy

demon-mockery
demonic racey
de-mon oh-crazy

i am surprised..not more has been made of tony kissing the hair..of the mother holding a baby..[it just looked wrong]..

the sexy member..[tonies sexy member]..
seems to have escaped the joinder..but im thinking is
is..his daughter...on a living wage..retainer[or a work contract]..or just to help daddy?

like so many bureaucrats and politicians ..kids..seem to do
im also frustrated..that more hasnt been made of terrasarudd..and her benefiting MILLIONS..from howards privatization..of the ces?

but heckthey dare not mention..that
nor how peter beatup..gave half a BILLION*..to a magnesium mate in gladstone..[cause howard kicked inanother half BILLION*]

its the same insane scummmm..same same[demonic-autocracy]
that floats scum..with the cream..and the...cat fat*..always on top

cause..this realm
belongs to satan$$$..demonic mockery...

zieh..heil..
hail hale..gotta bail

zipping up me dacs
so i gotta zip..

tony prefers...butt ons
and sexy members

vanstoner likes tight pack-ages
and guess who thinks..the little guy..is sexy?

and channel 7 is going nude
ie no makng it up..

er what?
..oh no makeup..gotta zip
..on the back of the dress?

no i got buttons on me chest..

Has the hung Parliament harmed the Social cohesion of this country.
Belly,
No ! It is the ALP Government & its bureaucracy that has ruined the social cohesion of Australia, no if's no but's !
There are no excuses to find no matter how hard one wants to try. It is all down to extreme egotism & extreme incompetence on their behalf.

OUG,

Would it be too much to ask whether you could try and make a few cogent points rather than the incoherent word salad of which you are so fond.

INDIVIDUAL! if it is the last post I ever make I will take this off you no more.
Sir you present in print as one who is rude and yes unknowing.
I doubt you even understand how badly you insult half of this country.
It comes down to this *read* your uniformed childlike hate filled description of LABOR VOTERS.
Too many here try to look nice, that is not being honest!
You however seem incapable of constructing other than your natural persona.
Descriptions used just in this thread see me make this claim you are a nasty but uninformed bloke.
I like OLO know I no some probably GY, with my own faults but has any one noticed how many good posters are no longer around?
Any one care to drop a link to other pages?
Think if I am to not go forever I need a long rest, will drop in to look for links.
My regards to all.

Belly,
You're only getting upset because of your own doing. Proof me wrong & all will be good.

I have just seen an ALP ad with the message "if Abbott wins, you lose". This is probably one of the most sickening displays of arrogance I have ever seen. After all this PM has put many good Australians through & then to sanction this line is beyond description.

Who won the debate, and why?

I'd say it was about even stephen.
Neither really came out on top for me.
And hopefully they'll both do better in the next round.

I was hoping to be impressed by either one or the
other. Unfortunately the evening as far as I was
concerned was a lack-lustre affair. One talked too
much and the other really needs to shake off his
robotic quality. Neither captured my attention.
The election may yet come down to personalities.
As experts tell us - "a politician's prime asset is
his or hers charisma. " They need to caputre the hearts
and minds of the people.

They need to show us more of who they really are -
and not just quote scripted dialogue.
I'd like to see some real action from both.
Let us take a peek at what's behind the masks.

Lexi,
beating around the bush with such rhetoric does not confirm nor deny the incompetence of Labor in the past six years. Do you think working & revenue producing Australians are willing & ready for another term of Rudd ?

Lexi my sweet, I most definitely hope that god, if there is one, spares us from politicians with charisma.

Churchill & Hitler both had it in spades, & between killed millions. Do you really want to see such types in power anywhere again.

What I want is a totally boring manager. I want them to manage the country & economy so well, that we don't even notice them doing it.

Unfortunately for Labor I think you will find, far too many of us have got a glimpse of what's behind the mask Rudd wears, & found absolutely nothing worth having. It really is a jumbled mess of narcissism, with nothing to recommend it at all.

Julia may have been incompetent, but was a better choice than this bloke

Dear Hasbeen,

Both Stalin and Hitler
were paranoids who killed millions
to consolidate their power.
Totalitarianism was their driving force.
They killed for political gain.
And your equating them with our politicians
is not logical.

Dear Individual,

I realise that it is tempting, if the only tool
you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were
a nail.

dam..how did wee get from krudd/phony tony
to hitler..[ok..hitler was lent huge fortunes..to build infrastructure/resources..cheap disposable labour..etc

that laid the foundation
for germaniac wealth..to this day

the banks looted..the rich..via hyperinflation
[while the true banker mates elites loan rates were fixed]
and ever air raid..veted so the bankers and thier investments didnt get boombed

bombing the peons house's too..was brilliant..
filling the colonies homelands ..with the next generation
of dumbed down/state educated ignorant sheeple..in others lands

[sorry that should read immi-grants?]..
under the immigration act..as city-zens..[under the act]

subverting the natives rights
via constituted rights..over trade commerce and arti-fical person's..[inc/ltd]..who only 'egsist'..on paper

govt can only control fictions
[ie the licence../a created straw personum under the transport act]

it has bene'fits
but also huge implicatioon..upon your person
as opposed by your implied personhood

http://www.yourstrawman.com/

but who cares
till hyper inflation yet again wrecks the peons homes
driving the ignorant/immagrants sick and hungry..for a slice of the pie..

here mud in ya eye
same same

been thinkinking
re how on..on monday..on qanda
the great white hunky chubby hope..[joe ho,key]
has to demolish..the new treasurer..to win..[in the long run]
as much as..i would have loved to see...the old treasurer get his..

that de-bait
may be make or break..at least for joe

if only tony would retain..the mining tax..and cut the tax breaks/free ports..free lunch..of the miners..i would even vote for clyde..to win big time..he simply needs to turn on his old mates..say tax me..or elect me..but make the elite insanity end*

he just might get greatness thrust upon him
or how about MORE people..to spice it up

qanda..thursday..full panel
after the numbers are released
for 4 hours!

things im noting as tony meets the press

its fully costed..[repeat 3 word slogan]
good for families[repeat3 times]

thoughts re the 6 billion..paid parental leave..is
you get youyr regular wage../[even ginna rienhart?]
the pm..or the lady running the bank

how much bails out the rich
just like..a tax cut..plus a new tax=NOT*..fully costed
[note spell check says thats not a word]

[whatever FULLY&costed means..
beyond we think the model costs..put into the model
are a cost..fully..yes a fully costed cost...Fu

LLY COSTED..so that means it is fair
/..[ie the rich dont take more?..waghe than the poor?
..or that it works..only by refunding the same as its going to cost..upon those imposed with the new tax?

all the states/terror-tories must agree
[lol]..to change a federal law..get real..tony

are we seeing the real tony?

ok gay mirage
lets wait/see]3 wurds
i talked to john laws..name dropping?

build the roads

stop the boats

help corporations survive
opposition under control
hold this govt
struggle to survive

jobs at rick
keeping your job
under our rules
a difficult situation

this was actually

you might remember
tax fell..[percent]
not too critical

but i wish
govt hadnt presided over

42 is limit of minesters
you got 49

not taking anything for granted
gotta great front bench

thank you so much

ohhe went into 4 letter..no00
sorry 4 wurd mode?

oh well thats it
from meet the soft press

abc FACT* check
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-19/joe-hockey-exaggerates-debt-figures/4897264

Debt going to $400 billion'

On Mr Hockey's claim that Labor's legacy will be debt "going to $400 billion", ABC Fact Check consulted the Treasury's Pre-Election Economic and Fiscal Outlook released on August 13.

It contains a figure almost that large, $370 billion, which represents Treasury's debt projection at the end of the four-year forward estimates period. That is, it is the projected debt for 2016-17.

The Treasury projection Mr Hockey chose to describe Labor's legacy was its figure for gross debt.

The $370 billion figure in this year's PEFO refers to Commonwealth Government Securities (CGS), or government bonds, on issue. This is what economists and governments refer to as gross debt.

In contrast, the figure Mr Hockey chose to describe the Coalition’s legacy was its figure for net assets – that is, assets less borrowings.

To make a comparison using like-for-like, Mr Hockey should have used Treasury’s projection for net debt – that is, borrowings less assets.

For the 2013-14 year, Treasury forecasts net debt of $184 billion. At the end of the forward estimates period in 2016-17, it projects net debt of $217 billion.

We left the country with net assets of $70 billion, where if we are elected on the 7th of September we inherit debt going to $400 billion.
Joe Hockey

To make a correct claim, Mr Hockey could have said: We left the country with net assets of $31 billion where if we are elected on the 7th of September we inherit net debt of $184 billion going to $217 billion.

When the Coalition left office in 2007, gross debt was $59 billion (and was more than outweighed by government assets, resulting in net assets of $31 billion). Currently, gross debt is $268 billion.

Another correct claim Mr Hockey could have made is: We left the country with gross debt of $59 billion where if we are elected on the 7th of September we inherit gross debt of $268 billion going to $370 billion.

Either way, the change is less dramatic than Mr Hockey claims.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-19/joe-hockey-exaggerates-debt-figures/4897264