Dear Houelle,

You wrote;

“I think we actually want the same thing csteele. We disagree on the measures.”

I'm not even sure that we entirely disagree even on those.

But there will be a generation of primarily public school kids who without some assistance with ATAR scores now will miss out. These are good kids, struggling in a poorly funded system, and if some sort of affirmative action is required as an interim until we get the system sorted out then so be it.

Hopefully we can get past what my daughter had to put up with, things like class biology films on VHS constantly interrupted by the teacher explaining why key points were not current any more, plus some really shoddy relief teachers.

I am constantly surprised just how much more responsible this generation is than mine. We are failing them.

I have sat and listened to the aspirations of my daughter's friends gradually diminish, especially in their VCE year. For the vast majority an ATAR of 80, the base UNSW score, is just a fantasy, achievable by only a few. Most of these kids work 2-3 nights a week (some of the money going to support single parent families), do not have access to tutors, nor in many cases tertiary educated parents. How are they meant to compete with a Melbourne Grammar student without some form of assistance with their score? Or have we given up the notion that they ever should?

We need to get fair dinkum as a nation about Gonski and I will say that State governments, who seem to be finding less and less money for public education, despite the enormous growth of the private sector, probably need to just get out of the way and leave it to the federal government.

I'm not sure funding will be a panacea csteele. I went to one of the roughest schools in Sydney, and I have seen first hand some of the poor monkeys that never had a chance, and hate the world and want to do harm to the kids that are attempting to get an education.

Middle class parents have fled this environment, putting a gate around their kids via their private schools and leaving public schools as Ghettos for the rest. There are some smart kids with good parents in the public system, some teachers trying to fight the good fight, but they need help. The problem is the previously middle class have abandoned them and are sacrificing their whole family life in a lot of cases to drudge through and afford a ridiculously priced private education.

If we were smarter and more courageous, we could have it so the vast majority of these parents could have a good education for free, while paying just a little more tax. It may also involve a mechanism for ejecting the worst 10% into some other system to deal with all the tragedy and abuse and neglect in those kids lives.

A class with 10% disruptive, with better resources can be dealt with. A class like my school with 60-70% disruptive kids, well, it takes skill and courage just to duck and dive and go home in one piece let alone get good grades.

The quality of public schools will also reflect the area, so you will never really get an even playing field, as when parents select their house, they are buying a better public education, just by the demographics of the more affluent area.

It needs to be turned on it's head. A lot of resources are needed for these ghetto schools, and the sickening thing to me is the government giving money to those who have abandoned the system and have the resources to pay 20k a year per kid, while skimping on those kids where school is the only chance to improve their lot and intervene in their dire lives.

There are two different discussions here.

One is an egalitarian public school system where no child is disadvantaged by demographic (or other) factors.

However, a quality education system does not necessarily mean everyone should get a degree. Surely that has potential to devalue education and denigrate the idea of a tiered education system that focuses on different skill sets and aptitudes. Australia already has issues with lack of skills in certain areas due to past and present governments lack of attention to trades etal.

Should a university degree be the new minimum standard? Surely the goal here is to ensure access to university on merit regardless of wealth or class. The handing out of degrees willy nilly reeks of the problems of tertiary education commercialism. Lack of government funding means universities have to raise funds through selling education as a product. Merit has no part in that type of capitalist model.

The aim should be not to reduce standards because that defeats the purpose. The fact that some universities now hold Remedial English classes highlights the problem.

Attention to early childhood education equals better outcomes and should be the priority. A strong early education also gives people the best tools to be able to meet university entry standards.

This idea that a university education is for all, is an aspect of what I can only label as aspirationalism (is that a word?). The idea that everyone must aspire to a university level education even if it means society will ultimately be the poorer for it.

An egalitarian society should value all roles including those that do not require a university education. An egalitarian society recognises that working class jobs have value and serve a great purpose. It has come to the point where people feel embarrassed to say they don't have a degree or that they are a secretary, a cleaner or a factory worker. Where would society be without people occupying all manner of jobs and performing all manner of necessary functions.

Essential we are creating a level of elitism out of a desire to be egalitarian.

My mate is studying at University to be a golf Pro. Says it all really.