Just signed my contract today.
But was very surprised at the conditions that contract puts on me.
NSW is my home state, my plan is for two KW producing about 8.5 units a day, on average.
Now my daily use, daylight hours is about 4 units.
I will be paid, under NSW legislation, 6 cents a unit for every unused unit .
But charged so I am informed 40 cents per unit,for every one used at night.
I have a battery backed installation, it blackout proofs me and runs some lights and my ham radios.
But had thought the unused units would come of one for one, my nightly use.
We all could ask if the unit price is 6 cents per unit why bother producing more only to see others get the profits.
And remember my extra produced power, will be sold to those who want to use green based power at a higher rate.
Too if it costs 6 cents why are we paying what I thought was 34 cents but have been informed will be 40 in a month and 60, withing 3 years?
I found reason no to take the 1.5 KW because while I am paying over the average costs in this state I can use some of that extra power rather than gift it to commercial owners of NSW power sold by our dysfunctional NSW FILTH parliament.
PS my location will see me produce much more than what I said but it remains a question, others get big pay for feed in I never wanted to make money from it but just to save bills.

Communism ... the government will forcibly screw you.

Socialism ... everybody will screw everybody else, sponsored by the government.

Capitalism ... business and the government will screw you.

Result? No matter what system you're under, and no matter what service you use ... you're screwed.

Human nature.

I as my act in asking these questions shows, do not know much about it.
Thought I did.
Howard first got it rolling and I found the initial costs to high.
Others filled roof tops, both under Howard and Labor, with them,in northern NSW up to thirty on roofs that no longer have any one under them.
60 cents a unit always seemed like the many paying for the few.
Abbott says he wants another million homes across Australian to have it.
NSW has been blighted by the artificial price rise the last [ALP] government put on power to make us forever pay for the privatization of power.
And increase profits therefore value to buy, that power.
Two things need addressing, provided we are willing to ignore those cashing in,at the expense of powder consumers.
Why did I or would anyone, put in more panels of what I can use in daylight hours? knowing the 6 cents I receive is well theft.
And as increasing consumers seal refuge from ever increasing power costs, industry too, why stall the installation or maybe stop it all together of clean energy?
If I produce more than I use in daylight, and not over all as much as I use.
Then surely my made power is mine? why force me to put it back at 5 times the price I got for it?

Maybe it is me who did not float not the subject.
I can live with that.
Environmentalists however surprise me.
If other states are doing what mine is a disincentive exists to putting other than minimum on the roof.
I see one point five KW as worthwhile but clearly nothing more.
BUT spent an extra $1.000 to get the extra half.
That gives me, in this mad house state the pleasure of buying back each night, power I produced and was paid 6 cents a unit for.
For 40 cents?
Bet if it was a federal thing both sides would use it , improving it, as voter bait.
Why did I bother? last spend up from my hard earned and it seems we should practice what we preach and who knows?
Sanity may come in the future.
Price rises to buy will so why not let me use all the power I make? maybe one day.

I'm curious about how the tariff agreement is worded, Belly...

Seems ridiculously unfair. Is the document available on-line?

Hi Belly,

To your question “Solar Power worth it or not?”

The answer is obviously yes whilst ever those who don’t have it are paying for yours.

I’m not convinced you understand what you have bought; either that or you have been shafted.

I pay 11c per Kw/h for off peak (hot water, pool pump, irrigation pump) I pay 22c per Kw/h for normal tariff. I get paid 44c per Kw/h for everything we generate over what we use.

We run the dishwasher and washing machine before or after sun up because we don’t want to use our own electricity at 44c when we can do it for 22c.

We have a 2.5 Kw/h system, averages 12.5 units per day. I was in credit from March 2012 until this last quarter when my bill was $54.65. Annual electricity bill $54.65.

Many thanks to Julia Gillard, Bob Brown and Greg Combet for the CO2 tax which charges the rest of you for my cheap energy.

I love to see great thinkers and massive intellects like these in action. Doh!

WM Trevor maths is my best subject common use no deeper.
My figures are well researched and thought out.
They are true too.
And so blindingly wrong!
Spindoc Gday, you are not in NSW are you?
I too get a far lessor price for my off peak hot water, we all do.
But lets look, my figures come after my grilling of an old mate.
He stepped out of electrical goods retail not many years ago.
Now I goggled and found better offers, only how ever on the costs of supply and fit.
Went with the local, one of yours hands out HTV other side of the path to me most times.
Bloke current price to me is 34 cents, said to go to 40cents today ,1st of new year.
I use 15.37 units on average a day.
My daylight use is about 4 units average.
Will produce 8 to 10 every day.
But in this state at least, all unused daylight power I make, is sold back, no other choice, to them to resell.
Leaving me the first customers, buying my night time usage at the full price.
Google house hold solar power NSW, FRIGHTENING STUFF.
Lo0ok no expert in maths just quick at arithmetic
Lets look over the 90 days a standard bill is.
I will produce based on other working models not less than 900 units.
In that time my use is likely to be 360 units I pay nothing for.
But yes 540 units sold back to the grid at 6 cents.
It if nothing else questions those getting 60 cents.
I see noway I am other than a victim any profits go away from me not toward me.
I never wanted to profit and my installation at that size can not stop me getting a bill.
But current NSW policy,s dampens solar power installations.

I still don’t get it Belly. There is just too much discrepancy between the going rate you get paid for your output and what others get paid.

It may be a NSW State thing, but could you clarify if you paid the capital costs for the installation or did you get it partially financed though your energy supplier? This may account for the difference.

Some generators install for free then charge you some of what you generate to payback the installation costs.

Also, what do you mean when you say “said to go to 40cents today,1st of new year”. The rate you get paid should be contractual, not maybe and should be guaranteed until 2028.

Belly, I would suggest the following.

Purchase some very good batteries (the ones designed for solar stand alone systems) and an inverter, along with a very good battery charger.

Now what you do is use your solar power @6c to run your charger, that charges your batteries during the day.

Net result, you domt get paid your 6 cents.

However, come night time, you switch to your battery bank, which along with your inverter, converts your cheap power to 240v, that then runs your house at night, thus illuminating, or at least drastically reducing your 40c per unit consumption, which in essense means you are in real terms buying your night power for 6c per unit, as opposed to 40c.

Of cause this will come down to a cost analysis, but well worth a try I would think.

I'm in QLD and have just had solar put on two places, I get paid 44 c per KW for every KW I sell back to the grid.

There is speculation that this scheme is about to be dumped.

My brother in law, an engineer, has just moved into a property near Wyong, after living in the upper Colo area for years.

He drives an extra 25Km to work but reckons it would be worth driving 100Km each way to get away from the solar power system he had to live with as he was off the grid in Colo.

He wouldn't wish a solar power system on his worst enemy he reckons, just what I found with alternate generation on the yacht. A small petrol generator for battery charging used a bit of fuel, but was so much easier to live with.

Rechtub I already have a battery back up system, not in any way linked to the grid.
As a ham radio operator I am one of a group who have that.
We mostly run just enough to black out proof us.
And to run lighting and radios, TV can be run too.
Lets get back to the question asked of me.
NSW remember
Average daily use over 90 days 15.37 units.
Price NSW 34 cents but to be 40 per unit.
I get free power for use in daylight, as the meter runs in that time.
Extra power I generate [can not make use of in daylight] gos back to grid at 6 crimson cents per unit! Now sun sets,I produce no power, have sold my extra units I then pay to buy it back!
Now understand some agree it is weird love to know what other states do.
This is not a link, but search NSW gov solar power rebate and see it is true.
PS my predictions of out put come from comparing others with same installation.
Oh yes cost? I buy and pay for all the installation .

i went looking foe a link.
But could not find one supporting my one!
NSW was in 2012, talking of 8 cents not six.
As my system is to go on the roof next week I will put all figures here then.

So Belly, are you seeking a solution, or just having a whinge?

As I say, the solution lies in using your FREE POWER to charge your batteries, rather than selling it for 6 cents.

Every unit you replace with your batteries, rather than buy off the grid, will save you 40 cents each unit.

Problem solved I would suggest.

Belly, I'm not sure I fully understood your response though it seemed you thought I impugned your arithmetic... which I did not.

All I wanted to achieve was to compare the wording of your contract with the explanations for solar tariffs in the NSW Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal (iPART) "Solar feed-in tariffs, The subsidy-free value of electricity from small-scale solar PV units from 1 July 2013, Energy — Final Report June 2013"

In estimating the value of PV customer exports it "determined that the benchmark range for solar feed-in tariffs in 2013/14 is 6.6 to 11.2 c/kWh of PV electricity exported by non-Solar Bonus Scheme customers."

You need to remember that you are buying electricity at retail prices but selling it wholesale... whether or not that is fair.

I notice that CountryEnergy charge 38.379 c/kWh between 07:00 and 22:00 and 19.107 c/kWh between 22:00 and 07:00. You're still stuck with a daily supply charge of 138.028 cents, so at 6 c/kWh you need to 'sell-back' 23 kWh to make-up just that.

Doesn't seem much of an incentive.

Mind you, each of the solar kWh you generate and use between 07:00 and twilight saves you 32.379 cents.

Wm Trevor it never entered my head that you had doubts about me additions.
The contract quite frankly was signed while empty,after it was explained to me.
I had for a very long time, considered buying the panels.
Missed the bus on profiting from them, never wanted to.
I am just as lost as you here.
Seems so silly, some can even increase their 60 cents a unit pack, by seemingly twice ?
Others get 13 cents [in NSW]or 20 cents.
Seems some one will rectify it as a honey pot at state elections but even then, will any change be passed on to me?
I get the panels and contract next week it seems more then.

Belly,

You will see I posted a reply to you in another thread. Sorry.

Here it is,

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5889&page=12

Thanks for a timely reminder onthebeach.
As I spent 4 grand, [yes over the odds] on the panels and the roof owes me much more, thanks.
You would not believe it! a brother still earns his liveing installing iron roofs!
Not going to ask him!
But as I do climb on my color bond roof to adjust radio aerials I will go up and watch installation,and inform them why!
Over the odds? some true shonks are in the game, my higher costs are worth it , knowing the firms owner and him knowing me.

Belly,

I imagine you could have less worries with colorbond, but look up the installation instructions for the roofing which should give you the metals to avoid contact with. Here is a zincalume example,

http://www.bluescopesteel.com.au/go/howto/guidelines-for-using-zincalume-steel

I have built a number of times and the most common fault is that trades do not comply with manufacturers' installation instructions. They don't even read them. They cut corners ('bang 'em up'). That will result in problems -sometimes impossible to resolve- down the track when the obligatory builder's warranty/insurance period is over.

The other issue is leaving the owner with too frequent or difficult maintenance bwhere the builder pocketed a few extra dollars by preferring cheap, poor quality sealants and so on.

That is a problem often seen in caravans and transportable homes where el cheapo sealants are applied to smooth surfaces (eg painted aluminium), only to shrink and lose the bond in a few years. They use a cheap product and then compound the problem by cutting corners and not roughing the surface for a proper 'key'. $60,000 caravan with rotting structure and hazardous electrical, but the builder saved enough for a six pack of beer later. A new installation like solar on a house roof brings workers without the proper skills (remember insulation) and supervision that is spread far too thinly.

onthebeach thanks again it had not come to mind before you reminded me.
I have seen the damage such things can do, my antennas for a start.
Will be watching closely.

In my part of Qld, Ergon pays 8c a kw, but charges 32c.
Considering line losses over long distances can be as much as 90% or more, this is an obvious rort. We should get paid 4 times more for locally produced power, instead of a quarter.
As for batteries, been there, done that. Battery prices have come down since I was on the farm, but they're still dear and they still have a usable limited lifespan. Counting the fuel we used in the generator during cloudy weather and the gas for the stove and fridge, plus capital costs and depreciation, we spent much more than on the grid.
And the batteries always ran out just at the climax of the movie...

Grim thanks for your post.
It is the type of answer I was looking for.
Dare I say it the greens if they are fair dinkum should be screaming about this.
YouR 8 cents and my 6, after considering we buy it back! at full price is a crime.
It too stops dead the full use of solar power.
Battery's, I would be happy to help any one who needs info.
But my installation, like most who use them in my group is minimal.
2 40 watt panels feeding two normal conventional 12 volt car battery's.
I have had it for years,it runs my ham radios and lights.
In a blackout, we have a few too many, my TV.
3 YEARS NO TROUBLES, SO IT IS WORTH THE EFFORT.

I end the thread with some crazy information.
It has been so from the start.
My system go,s on the roof this Thursday.
But because in my state contractors must wait for lengthy period to get a meter I will not have one.
So my current meter will run backwards while I am putting power in,[day light].
ALL will be paid for at the full rate I pay!
When the meter is in I revert to 6 cents a unit of all power made but not used?

Belly, "So my current meter will run backwards while I am putting power in,[day light]"

Old analogue meter creating a false reading.

Don't worry, the electricity supplier will likely estimate a bill for you based on past use. Start saving. LOL