I mean that genuinely.

What does this man stand for?

If we subtract the sound bites and platitudes, what vision does Tony Abbott have for Australians that's not based on a negative and contrary assessment of his opponents.

"Turning Back the Boats" and "Australians deserve better" are cozy, populist and fairly vacuous when there's no accompanying commentary.

My problem with Mr Abbott is, that apart from the odd garbled interview, I'm not getting any substance.

Tell me why this mediocre pollie deserves my vote on his own merits - and not on his negative assumptions regarding the present government?

You wouldn't be voting for the LNP anyhow, Poirot. So the question is a criticism.

The big question is which policies will Kevin Rudd be standing for.

Greens leader Christine Milane has already given Kevin Rudd and Labor a dreadful spray yesterday June 26, 2013. She alleges that key policies agreed(?!) with Gillard will be dropped. She referred darkly to boat people, or at least alleged a different direction under Rudd.

If Labor's sidekick the Greens are bucking and making headlines out of a 'Negative' Rudd and a sizeable rump of the Labor caucus remains opposed to the new PM even before he gets to speak in parliament, the vital issue for the electorate is what does Kevin '13 stand for

there is no doubt that we need to see much more detail from Abbott and coalition.

With Rudd's rhetoric and clever ability to promote a message, albeit it will be mostly rhetorical (catering to everyone and anyone), I feel that just targeting each other's personalities only dumbs down debate.

I don't have much faith in Rudd, but hope that Abbott will do much more than simply say 'only we can guarantee stability' or simply target Rudd's many faults.

So far, I have seen very little of how the Coalition will address eco aims, beyond northern Australia and cutting spending.

Note that I didn't ask what the Greens stand for. That is all smoke and mirrors.

onthebeach,

You presume too much.

I've voted for my local state Liberal representative in the last two state elections.

Next......

Abbott IS vacuous as far as I am concerned.
He does tend to make big promises, with no actual policies.

He stands for his very conservative, backward, religious views, and I believe a vote for Abbott is a vote for the Catholic Church.

Anyone who supports George Pell and his disgraceful knowledge of hiding paedophiles within Catholic clergy, should not be in the top job.

Poirot, I suspect that like Gillard and Rudd he stands for personal power.

I'm possibly not as bothered by the lack of announced vision from him as others are, pollies seem quite happy to say one thing and do another. Last run at the job Rudd claimed to be a fiscal conservative, Gillard assured us that there would be no carbon tax under a government she lead.

I quoted this earlier on another thread

"In a statement on his website Mr Rudd says he wishes to make 100% clear to all members of the parliamentary Labor Party - including his own supporters - that there are no circumstances under which he will return to the Labor Party leadership in the future."
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/131006/rudd-says-he%27ll-never-again-lead-alp

I'm well past the point where I take political rhetoric and claims of vision seriously, it all seems to be spin designed to appeal to swinging voters and even if implemented in some technical form does not necessarily mean implemented in spirit. See the dfference between the appology and handling of other indiginous issues under Rudd and then Gillard.

In the end I suspect that the smart money is on judging the parties by their track record rather than what they tell us to win elections.

For me that means a wish for a "none of the above" option but if I have to choose between them then the libs seem to hate me less.

R0bert

What Does Mr Abbott Stand For?

I suspect an orderely immigration policy
Economic responsibility
Family friendly policies
Proper science in forming crippling policies
A smaller public service
Ministries appointed by competence not gender/quotas
that's just the start

You "suspect".

It would be nice if Mr Abbott clarified those points, instead of sitting with his lips sealed, expecting to sail into the top job.

It's an indictment on Australian politics that a man and his team have been able to sit back with almost no policy direction, while the electorate tussles with the irksome dynamics pertaining to Gillard and themselves.

Abbott needs to enlighten us more fulsomely as to the depth of his vision for a government under his leadership.

Now, he may be forced to do just that.

No doubt, based on his history, a vote for Abbott is a vote for the traditional Catholic Church (much to the dismay of many good Catholics who have left the "traditional" side of the Church long ago, for obvious reasons).

No doubt, Abbott will be taking lots of advice from his buddy, Cardinal George Pell. It's interesting to note that "both" of them have had a history containing sexual allegations made against them.

According to the LNP of QLD website, here's what Tony Abbott stands for:

https://lnp.org.au/static-news/our-plan-real-solutions-for-all-australians/

On a level of particular importance to those of us in the tropics, here's some more:

https://lnp.org.au/static-news/9468/

I note that it's all a lot of hot air, really. Nice ideals but no real indication of how they will be achieved. And I hope the latter proves to be little more than hot air. Well, the hot air up here is likely to keep it that way. There's a reason why the strip of our planet that lies between the tropics tends to be the most underdeveloped part of the planet. Or maybe that's just me hoping!

But you asked what he stands for, not what he'll deliver, and this is the closest I could find.

I'm thinking that what he stands for might be an indication on what he will endeavour to deliver.

Both Gillard and Rudd are proven liars, by their own statements.
At least, at this stage, Abbott hasn't fibbed, yet.
Gillard still has to face the law in respect of her criminal involvements with the union funds and now out of her own pockets. That will be fun.
Did you notice Rudd carrying his bible very prominently. Abbott and Rudd both have God on their sides. Which God is the true God?
Remember Gillard was Godless. Perhaps that is why she fell to the devis sword.

"....Abbott hasn't fibbed, yet."

Au contraire.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s933489.htm

This is a sterling effort, worthy of an Olympic gymnast.

Oh dear, Chris "gaff" has done it again. He lied about Abbott not having fibbed (thanks Poirot). He thinks the reason Gillard is not still PM is because she's "Godless". He thinks Rudd became PM specifically to "increase his superannuation and pension".

Oh deary, deary me.

Gee, I hope Mr Gaff becomes Abbott's speech writer. I really do.

What does KRudd stand for:

Wild spending and huge deficits
Very expensive school halls
Pink batts with dead teenagers and house fires
Open borders
Failed health reform
Grocery watch
Fuel watch
Mining super tax
Asbestos fibre to the home?

My concern with Abbott is also with his character. I don't think he is a monster or a misogynist as some have tried to paint him, but his penchant for vitriole and negative campaigning is a concern. It is more than just an Opposition keeping the government honest and many times the media did not call him out on misrepresenting government policy (many of which they voted for in Parliament).

His attacks against Gillard (no matter what you think of her policies) sunk to bottom-dwelling lows with the comment about her father in Parliament. This is not the sort of person I want as PM but more importantly the LNP have continually avoided discussing their policies which shows great disregard to the voters. The LNP may think the election is a done deal but the electorate will not allow itself to be disrespected or taken for granted.

Not that it is a big issue for me as I am not a Liberal or Labor voter as my first preference, although I have voted for a Liberal once for local government. I am now in a quandary. With Rudd as leader and with the LNP taking policy advice from the IPA and the big end of town, I am not sure who to preference in this election.

It is slim pickings. I hope that those who vote for major parties remember to keep some minor parties and independents in the Senate so we don't get a repeat of Workchoices (or worse) given the pressure on the LNP to go hard on the most lowly paid Australians.

Come on Poirot, you're usually very rational but today you seem to be just a little oppositional instead. You asked a question: 'what does Mr Abbott stand for?' I offered an answer. Simple as that. I have no reason to doubt his intent to deliver, but whether or not he is successful in the delivery remains to be seen. His plan for the North is a 17-year plan, which puts a lot of faith in the desire and ability of subsequent governments to follow through. It also puts a lot of faith in mysterious buckets of money that must come from somewhere, especially as he intends to repeal the carbon tax and mining tax (neither of which has proven particularly profitable to date).

A leader's intention and performance are two different things. I have no doubt that Julia Gillard INTENDED to deliver a better education system, but she didn't manage to do so in her time. Campbell Newman INTENDED to reduce the cost of living in Queensland (well, he said he did), but he hasn't managed to do so. Jenny Hill, our mayor here in Townsville, INTENDED to do all manner of things - water rebates, frozen rates, etc. - but hasn't managed to do so. Inheritance of dodgy finances and constant obstruction from those in opposition can wreak havoc with one's ability to follow through.

So, as I said: you asked what Mr Abbot stands for; I offered an answer.

Otokonoko,

Apologies, my most reasonable friend. (One gets a little used to serving it up around here)

...............

SM,

Well there you go.

Your last post was a splendid example of Lib-speak. Nothing but simplistic and vacuous one-liners.

I'm asking Mr Abbott and his team to deliver something a little deeper and more comprehensive.

So far, utterances like those contained in your last post are all we' get.

More and better details, please.

Dear Poirot,

To me he stands for fear, hate, and nastiness.
He's brought out the worst element in our society.
For almost 3 year Mr Abbott has used a wrecking ball
strategy designed to bring down the government as
quickly as possible. And as poolitical commentators have
pointed out - he has not played a clean game as
Opposition leader. Had he been an Opposition leader who
challenged a government's policies and pointed out
their flaws, an Opposition leader who provided alternative
policies that won broad support - he would be someone
we would respect. Instead he has had a campaign of
destruction, involving lies, fear mongering,
unproven allegations and smear tactics.

It is no wonder that he is one of the least popular Opposition
leaders this country has ever had and those that claim he
has been successful, all that means is that his Opposition to
almost everything, and his unproven smear campaign has held
the government back in opinion polls.

We're now told that nasty, negative, nay saying, Mr Abbott has
become "nice" Mr Abbott in the dark blue suit, white shirt,
blue tie. As one author stated, this should be a WTF moment.

It will now be interesting to see if the Coalition can get rid
of their unpopular leader by having the guts to following
Labor's lead in this direction. Somehow I doubt whether
Mr Abbott would have the grace to resign as Julia Gillard
did for the "good of the Party." He ain't going to go quietly!

BTW - have you seen the Coalition's, "Our Plan - ReaL Solutions
for all Australians?" It is a litany full of contraditions
and all they offer is statements - nothing more. So if you're
asking, "What does Mr Abbott stand for?" Voters should also
be asking, "What exactly does the Coalition stand for?"
Giving people a list of statements and nothing else - are they
seriously expecting to get voters to elect them to government?
I guess those who find it easier to condemn than
think will follow suit. Fingers-crossed most Australians are
better than that.

Abbott needs to produce 2 things to gain credibility:

(1) Specific, detailed policies

that are

(2) Fully and professionally costed.

I predict these policeis, in their fully costed form, will (like the last election), be revealed about a week or so before the election. Why? In order to reduce scrutiny and analysis as much as possible. We ALL know their costings at the last election were fraudulent and deceptive. It was one of the main reasons they lost the election. They couldn't totally cover it up. They never learn.

Lexi,

You may find this article illuminating. It was written by someone who knows Abbott the man.

http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/qed/2012/10/the-honourable-tony-abbott

As for what Abbott stands for, his Battlelines has been examined for some years and to his credit, Abbott has changed his emphasis in some respects.

Has Christine Milne or Kevin Rudd produced anthing similar? The answer is 'No!'.

There ae bits. Kevin Rudd has his 'Big Australia', a policy that really isn't acceptable to many Australians, especially in the capitals where over-population has led to very high energy and water charges to take two common examples. Vehicle registration, land development and other government taxes are crippling. Rudd does not seem to have departed from his 'Big Australia' ideal.

Rudd also worships the UN, as does Milne and the Greens. That is another area where the electorate is not happy at all and for a heap of reasons, one being that such thinking led to the destruction of Howard's policy on boat people, which was working well.

'It would be nice if Mr Abbott clarified those points, instead of sitting with his lips sealed, expecting to sail into the top job.'

With the loony tunes Labor lot that is all that is required.

I have no idea why people are so scared of a religious person being leader. Why should Abbott's personal religious beliefs disqualify him from leading.

It's rank prejudice.

I cant fathom why it's supposedly so wrong to prejudge Gillard on being in a de-facto relationship with no kids, but somehow ok for the lefties to constantly bang on About Abbott's religion.

As for what he stands for, I don't think it's too hard to decipher. What does any conservative leader stand for? The status Quo, protecting business and promoting nuclear families.

I really think people give governments too much credit for making any difference. There could be no government for a year and nobody would even notice.

Poirot thanks for an interesting thread asking a question that most can not answer.
Because the truth is extremely hard to avoid, he stands for very little of substance.
Few want to know but Tony Abbott remains leader of his party by the grace of Gillard.
She was unable to make him visible to the public.
They, sorry but true saw her as worse.
Now like a naked man trying to hide in a empty ten acre paddock he is is going to be exposed.
His hobby horse, no no no , and baseless charges we are broke and that climate change is crap are hanging around his neck like dead rats.
Stop the boats! that simplex statement has been bought by unthinking voters but not the fact he has no answers on how to do it.
Pyne And both ageing and fading Bishops, his member for Cook and that Mirabella woman, are in for hard times.
Truth is about to expose they are chanters of trivia, not politicians.
So? Poirot the question may be can Abbott stand,stand honest inspection.

"Why should Abbott's personal religious beliefs disqualify him from leading."?

They shouldn't and they don't...

Though I would start to get uncomfortable if he truly-ruly believed in transubstantiation.

Is he an antidisestablishment ex-seminarian?

The first action of the 2nd Rudd Government was to vote against the introduction of TPV's in the Senate this morning. The second action of the 2nd Rudd Government was this afternoon to vote for the Gillard Government's Union advocated changes to 457 visa's in the Lower House.

Rudd2-Gillard what is the difference? Just more of the same old useless cr-p.

I would have thought it was obvious that companies should advertise first in Australia before going to 457 Visas. We need to skill Australians and then use those skills. Why is the LNP so against this simple stipulation.

So with Labor you get union-influenced policies that work to keep Australians employed while with Liberals you get business-influenced policies that create unemployment but hand companies a cheap workforce who won't rock the boat even in the face of poor workplace conditions.

Mmm.... difficult choice, which one to choose.

Why does the religious stuff come up all the time. It is irrelevant to whether someone can do a good job as PM. Rudd is also religious. It is a non-issue.

seems like the wounded ladies could do with a little therapy today. Having totally failed idealogies over the last few years and being rejected by the masses the attacks on Abbott, Abbott, Abbott have commenced. What will it be like when/ if he comes to the PM.

Pelican, "I would have thought it was obvious that companies should advertise first in Australia before going to 457 Visas"

Yet Julia Gillard did not do that when she brought in John McTiernan, her chief spinmaster from overseas. Mc Tiernan is known as the polarising influence behind Julia Gillard, not that she needed any encouragement.

Here they are,
http://www.afr.com/p/national/gillard_chief_spinner_mcternan_quits_B5C9MfW08B5w4IgTdAaF5L

onthebeach
Yes Gillard was wrong to take on an outsider for that role. There is certainly enough spin meisters in Australia to choose from.

runner
I doubt the attacks on Abbott will be as vitriolic and as personal as the attacks on Julia Gillard. I note you did not protest at any of the appalling behaviour towards the previous PM. High principles and standards about behaviour are a good thing but not if they only apply to protect your side of politics.

It's interesting, runner, how asking for further detail regarding Mr Abbott's vision for Australia, is construed as an "attack" on him - by you.

The fact is that the media and the electorate have been so caught up in their disdain for Gillard, that Mr Abbott hasn't had to bother with the detail of the mere trivialities concerning his, and his governments, plans and intentions.

Nothing but negativity and sloganeering serves the purpose to some extent, but its hardly a substitute for a comprehensive and sincere program held dear and clearly articulated to the voting public by those who seek the highest office in the land.

When is Mr Abbott going wax lyrical on his vision?

The only idiots that are confused about what Abbott stands for are those that form their opinion from only the left wing blogs and polemics. It must be especially confusing for them when Abbott steadily over took Juliar as preferred PM. The party without functional and costed policies is the Labor party, who has never produced a budget that it met by a country mile.

Anyone with an IQ greater than a squirrel knows clearly what Abbott stands for.

Pelican,

The class war and gender war are two of a number of very divisive campaigns that are attributed to McTiernan.

Recruiting him was Julia Gillard's greatest blunder. The PM has high ground by virtue of the position. Ministers are the same. But we have seen the PM and Ministers of the Crown tell porkies where they should have kept to the high ground or not spoken at all. Worse, they indulged in the really grotty stuff such as the denunciation of Rudd, their own PM. Any wonder Rudd's head kept bobbing up like the arm in Deliverance (the movie).

Julia Gillard was foolish. She didn't have to react at all at any time. Her judgement failed her (and lack of breeding, sorry to say).

Watching Kevin Rudd today your assessment (if I read it right from elsewhere) may be proved earlier than imagined. Because in some of his replies to Abbott, Rudd's large ego was back on display. That continuing flaw in his make-up must be apparent to the Opposition (and his colleagues).

Poirot

'It's interesting, runner, how asking for further detail regarding Mr Abbott's vision for Australia, is construed as an "attack" on him - by you.'

what is interesting is your denial. Some quotes from the ladies in this post

'To me he stands for fear, hate, and nastiness.
He's brought out the worst element in our society.'

'Abbott IS vacuous as far as I am concerned.'

'My concern with Abbott is also with his character. '

It's "interesting" that not one Abbott supporter here, has been able to produce even ONE fully costed Abbott policy.

Says it all.

PJack

I take it you would like the Libs to employ Mr surplus Wayne Swan. Give us a break! Don't Labour/Green supporters have any shame.

SM,

"Anyone with an IQ greater than a squirrel knows clearly what Abbott stands for."

That may be fine for those of your ilk, but some of us see only vacuous sloganeering, platitude, negativity and invective.

That appears to have worked a treat up till now.

If you're telling me, SM, that I should know that Mr Abbott stands for anything and everything other than what Labor represents, then I say that's far too nebulous.

I need Mr Abbott to convince me.

I need him to stop the sloganeering and negative politics and tell me what he wants to do.

Surely anyone who reaches his position must have some creative program he wishes to enact. Why won't he tell us what it is?

.........

runner,

Considering these threads have run hot for three years with posters freely abusing and slinging insult at Gillard and the independents, I'm surprised by your feigning outrage when a few ladies express their doubts about Mr Abbott.

There should be no surprise that there have been questions. Does the name Craig Thomson ring a bell for instance?

Has there ever been a federal government as scandal-ridden as the present Labor/Greens government?

Tony Abbott can only be voted for in his Electorate; and be a member of a party now headed by him. The Party is bigger than him so we should ask "What are the policies proposed by the Liberal / National Party?"

Dear Poirot,

It is interesting that the best all the Abbott supporters
can come up with is more of the same tactics of nastiness,
negativity, fear, and hate, instead of discussions on
policy. But then I guess they don't
really have anything to discuss. Condemnation is the
best they can come up with. Nothing new to see here.

BTW - Labor has risen vastly in the polls in every state
since last night. I believe the Morgan poll tells us that
there's very little difference between the two party
preferences now. And it's still a while until the election.

Interesting.

Lexi, "And it's still a while until the election"

That is the problem for Rudd. That the 'bounce' in the polls is only for the short lived honeymoon period.

So you agree though that the previous abuse heaped on Rudd by Gillard, Swann and Co was wrong? Rudd is a saviour whose policies were right all along and he should never have been knifed by Jools?

Poirot,

'Why won't he tell us what it is?'

I had you as knowing a bit more about the political game. Why would he give a sucker an even break? What opposition gives out their policies in time for the government to steal them or discredit them with their superior access to the vast resources of the public service.

It's simple tactics, but you disingenuously argue it has something to do with a lack of policy.

It's like assuming that an army that hasn't attacked yet has no ammunition, and asserting they should just wave a bloody big flag to show the enemy where to shoot.

Dear onthebeach,

Your reference to Julia Gillard's "knifing" Kevin
Rudd suggests that she came to power illegitimately.
This is not true.
It ignores the fact that there was widespread
dissatisfaction over Mr Rudd's leadership with the
Labor Party as polls began to slide. Julia Gillard
spoke to Kevin Rudd face to face about her intention
to challenge, after being approached by several concerned
members of caucus. Mr Rudd resigned and Julia Gillard was
elected unopposed by her Parliamentary caucus. There was
nothing illegitimate about the process. She became
leader because she gained support of the Labor Party
caucus. Everything else is innuendo and smear tactics
and should be ignored.

Dear Poirot,

As political commentators, including Mr Rudd, point out:

"Australians need to know precisely why they should vote
for Mr Abbott and the Coalition. This requires work,
not glad-handing, nor empty rhetoric."

"If Mr Abbott believes he leads the next government-in-waiting
then it is incumbent on him to enunciate the policies and
the vision that drives them."

"Clearly, there has been huge advantages while in Opposition
in offering a small target to Labor. But, to carry that
strategy any further now is to treat voters with contempt."

Throwing out a government is not the same as electing
an Opposition. The electorate, like nature, abhors a vacuum.
Without detailed policies it cannot properly assess who
deserves to govern. It's time for that to occur from
Mr Abbott and his Party.

Pjack,

Please produce even one fully costed Labor policy, one that has even closely approached predicted expenditure.

Poirot,

"That may be fine for those of your ilk, but some of us see only vacuous sloganeering, platitude, negativity and invective." That sounds like Rudd or Juliar.

Lexi,

Juliar got a 5% jump after knifing Rudd, this had dissipated completely by the election

Lexi sweetie, you say Australians need to know precisely why they should vote for Mr Abbott and the Coalition, which is interesting.

However Australians already know precisely why they should NOT vote for Mr Rudd.

Lexi has held her own views strongly,and she is in part quite right about Rudd,s knifing.
Fact is however the part we saw is like an iceberg.
However for the same reason, Gillards polling was nearly our worst ever, and Australia never for gave her, for knifing Rudd.
She was knifed!
So nothing wrong here surely.
OK if Labors instantly rising polling, Morgan that night ALP 49.5% Liberals 50.5 two party preferred are and they are true?
Why squabble over an unwanted leaders exit.
Yesterday, as is the case always three apparent circus clowns, you know those open mouthed ones waiting in this case to put their own foot in it, lost the debate.
And out smarted by a real politician looked as they are described clowns.
Be afraid Mr Abbott, be very afraid M Turnbull looked states man like, by just sitting there not getting involved in Chris Pyne school yard naughty boys club.

Two questions seem to exist here re policy
- Meaningful statements of values and direction
- Detailed costed policies

We should be hearing more of the first. I remain sceptical of those though given our polies willingness to tell outright porkies and given some here don't seem to see any disconnect between Gillards assurance that there would be no carbon tax under a government she lead and what was later implemented nor with Rudd claim that there was no circumstance whe he would lead the ALP again an his current role it all seems like a lot of nonsence.

For the second question. I think there are some fundamentalprobleims for an opposition party trying to do that whilst not have access to the full set of books of government and while they need to go through the treasurer to get what approximates for that.

Perhaps the onus is on those critical of the coalition for not having those available to the public to demonstrate when Labor has done so prior to an election date being firmly set and how well the announced policy and costings match what has been implemented when in government. My guess is examples will be very thin on the ground.

We should know what our polies stand for but this partisan outrage at Abbott for what is normal practice by both sides rings very hollow.

R0bert

Once a upon a time one party stood for social welfare and the other sucessful business. But we need to delve into what each currently is the goals of the Party agenda.

Houellie and RObert,

I asked that question because I genuiniely do not have a handle on what Mr Abbott stands for. Usually if someone has been in his position for as long as he has, we have some idea of his "vision". I feel like the only time we see the "real Mr Abbott is when he drops his guard and his cardboard cut-out persona....the only problem is when he does that, he's liable to put his foot in his mouth.

I don't expect costed policy to be already out there, but I do expect this man and his team to give me a positive reason to vote for him. I'm not all that happy with a few things Gillard did, and I would not have voted for a government led by her. I'm not hugely happy with the way our society conducts itself as a wide-ranging paradigm...perhaps Tony has some ideas that I would agree with. Who knows, because he doesn't tell us.

The point is that Mr Abbott has been allowed to coast, and would have continued to coast into government merely by haranguuing the present government. That is not good for politics in this country.

Now he and his team are going to have to peddle.

As I read it, in the wake of the GFC, Australia pulls up being one the best performing countries among industrialised nations...but you'd never now it listening to the Opposition.

Now I know they are called the "Opposition" for a reason, but with an election looming, yes - they need to tell me "why I should vote for them" - not just "why I shouldn't vote for Labor".

(Hasbeen's last post says it all - straight out of Abbott Opposition strategy book)

Poirot my post was somewhat more targetted at those a lot more partisan in their posted views.

I'd like a better handle what they stood for but have also rached the point of having vey little faith in what they claim to stand for vs whats actually delivered (or for that matter what they claim is delivered vs is what is actually delivered).

R0bert

'they need to tell me "why I should vote for them" - not just "why I shouldn't vote for Labor".'

That's pretty funny. The reason Rudd says he came back, and the reason Shorten says he betrayed Gillard, was they wanted to 'do what I can to prevent Mr Abbott from becoming prime minister'

"What is his agenda now? We know Rudd has long wanted the leadership, but to what end? The most emphatic reason he gave was to ''do what I can to prevent Mr Abbott from becoming prime minister''. Then came Shorten: "I believe that Tony Abbott and his conservative Coalition represent a once-in-a-generation risk to the advancement of this nation and its peoples''. Then came Carr: "Too much is at risk … [it's] overwhelmingly in Australia's interest that Tony Abbott not be our national leader''."

They seem to have a good idea, otherwise why are they so scared of what he's going to do?

They've scared the willies out of old Foxy! Hahahaaha

What Does Mr Abbott Stand For? If you really want to know just give Archy Pell a buzz, after all, an Archbishop outranks a monk, even a mad one.
Tony just announced a new policy to boost the fishing industry. No more eating meat on Fridays. Sorry about that Butch.

Houellie,

Rudd said he didn't wish to stand by and see Abbott win by "default'

Frankly, that's is what seemed to be happening.

Whatever machinations were happening between Gillard, her government, and the electorate, it was allowing the Opposition to merely coast.

It would have been pretty dumb to continue with that.

If Howard hadn't been so lauded toward the end of his tenure, the Liberal Party would have done the same. Instead they just went down with the ship. We all knew that was going to happen, and it did.

At least now we have a bit more of a contest.

I don't see how you miss the irony of all you labor-ites asking what Tony stands for, when all that Rudd stands for is that he doesn't like what Tony stands for.

What do you stand for?

:-)

BTW: I have never voted for the Coalition. And I'm not about to start now.

Would you vote for this man...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPmpswEJ-sg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51dJ4_rZKmE

Would you vote for this man....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGj8min8iwA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYxap_vxK7E

I'm sure Mr. Abbott would stand for old ladies on public transport... but that's not important right now.

I've decided to only consider voting for a political candidate who or party that, during the time SM says "gave Aus the 3 biggest deficits in history", did not vote for or support any increase in politicial pay and allowances or benefits.

Houellie,

Why don't you start a thread titled "What Does Mr Rudd Stand For?"

I've experienced Mr Rudd as Prime Minister.

I haven't experienced Mr Abbott as Prime Minister.

Need I say, that I find Mr Abbott a useful, but mediocre pollie, who seems to have advanced to the top job in the Opposition and managed it successfully from the Opposition's point of view.

That's my opinion.

If this fellow is in line for the highest office in the country, I'd like to know what it is that I'm missing...surely he must have more substance than is presently on display.

(And yes I'm somewhat partisan, but not completely. As I mentioned to onthebeach earlier, I have voted Liberal in the last two state elections, because of a fantastic local member and a relatively stable and sensible state government)

Dear SM,

A Morgan poll shows a big bounce for Kevin Rudd,
and puts Labor almost even with the Coalition.
And Kevin Rudd is far more popular with the
Australian voters than Mr Abbott. Suddenly
Mr Abbott faces an opponent far more popular than
himself and the Opposition leader's supposedly
assured run to election victory has now been
radically challenged.

Mr Abbott will now have to do more than just keep
breathing to become the next Prime Minister.
It won't be enough to want to have the job presented on
a plate. As I stated earlier the electorate will want
detailed policies so that it can properly assess who
deserves to govern.

In a recent poll 59 per cent of voters have now stated
that Labor can win the next election.

And I suspect this stems from Kevin Rudd portraying
himself as the face of reassurance and Abbott as risk.
Rudd is turning Abbott's fear campaign against Abbott.
And Kevin Rudd certainly has the people's attention.

Dear Hasbeen,

As I stated on this discussion - throwing out a government
is not the same as electing an opposition. The electorate,
like nature, abhors a vacuum. Without detailed policies it
cannot properly assess who deserves to govern. And Mr
Abbott has to do more than just keep breathing to become
the next PM.

Australians need to know precisely why they
should vote for Mr Abbott and the Coalition. This requires
work, not glad-handing, nor empty rhetoric. Again, as I've
stated in the past - clearly there has been huge advantages
while in opposition in offering a small target to Labor,
but to carry that strategy any further now is to treat
voters with contempt.

And, Kevin Rudd will continue in portraying himself as the
face of reassurance and Abbott as risk. It's up to Mr Abbott
and the Coalition to now try to correct that image.
Otherwise Mr Rudd just may succeed in turning the fear
campaign against Mr Abbott and his team. Mr Rudd does have
the people's attention.

Can I ask how many on this thread will actually get to Vote for Mr Rudd or Mr Abbott? If you are not in their electorates you will not get to vote for either. This thread is merely spouting popularity opinion on Rudd V Abbott, and not genuine policy of either Party, for which the leader has to represent. VOTE FOR YOUR BEST LOCAL CANDIDATE!

Tell us about your local candidates if you want to talk about personality, otherwise talk about Party Policy if you wish to make a genuine political debate.

I have asked several times in this thread for any Abbott supporters to produce even ONE fully and properly costed Abbott policy.

No Abbott supporter has been able to supply that one policy.

Says it all.

Of course, what will happen is that "fully and properly costed .. ha ha ha ha" policies will be produced by Abbott within about 1 week of the election. That's because it will greatly reduce the time for the public and the experts to undertake appropriate scrutiny. Just like what happened in the last election. It's one of the main reasons the Coalition lost that election. They never learn. Also, those costings were revealed to be fraudulent and misleading and GROSSLY underestimated the "real" costs. Hockey is an economic amateur, in addition to being a very angry, aggressive and immature individual.

Julia gets an office and staff, even after she has retired. So does The Rodent. The Rodent still needs staff and an office? For what? I don't understand why this is never questioned.

Why don't you start a thread titled "What Does Mr Rudd Stand For?"

I don't care what he stands for. Whoever the likes of Shorten and cronies put up for a figurehead, based on their latest whim, is not really relevant to me. It's the party that is the problem, it is just as bad as the Obeid party in NSW. It's fun to watch as a SOAP Opera. I call it The Rabble.

The NLP are the NLP, screwing the workers, born to rule, meh, and the Nats are a bunch of crazy red necks, same as it ever was.

I vote in my electorate, I don't vote for a leader.

You sound to me like someone that has watched too much The West Wing, wanting to be inspired by a visionary with integrity, with some warm and fuzzy leftie sensibilities:-)

'Hockey is an economic amateur, in addition to being a very angry, aggressive and immature individual.'

What Jolly Joe Hockey? I reckon he comes across as quite a nice guy. A buffoon, but quite a nice one. I don't think I've ever seen him angry or aggressive.

A joyful greeting to all, on both sides.
Clearly we can if we look, see the fear in conservative eyes.
At last Labor has a leader.
One people like, now there is a change.
And some have come down to fibs, any one else see Iam a nutter or some such thing claim Labor voted to stop 457 visa?
Gee fear makes some say strange things, Aussies first, if not 457 is not voting against it.
Wondering, is the poster a front bench in Abbott,s team?
They use terminological inexactitudes rather than policy,s.
Polling should prove Labor has done the right thing, but some continue to rant we should not have tried to win the election.
Go down nicely with the person AUSTRALIANS would not elect.
Poms are kicking Rudd for being better liked than the lady of the knife?

Houellie,

I have never watched an episode of The West Wing.

I know you like to take the crown of the head cynic around here....

But I wuz only asking a question.

Belly,

It's quite entertaining that Libs apologists are pissed off that Labor refused to just trickle out the door.

How dare Labor take a real stab at reeling back some support.

They should have had the decency to go quietly.

Apparently Julie Bishop was just now blowing a gasket on Sky News about something Rudd said in his latest interview.

Here's to blowing gaskets!

Does Labor have a leader of all the Party in Rudd when some have resigned as they will not serve under him. Many believe he failed to lead last time his elected colleagues. He may be popular with voters but not in the Party room.

PM Rudd has announced today that electing Tony Abbott would result in a war with Indonesia!

"KEVIN Rudd says Tony Abbott's asylum-seeker boat tow back policy risks sparking a war with Indonesia"

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/kevin-rudd-says-tony-abbott8217s-asylum-seeker-policy-risks-a-diplomatic-crisis-with-indonesia/story-fnho52ip-1226671337940

PM for a day and already he is an embarrassment. What the hell was he thinking?

Dear onthebeach,

It's quite obvious what Mr Rudd was thinking.
He made his position quite clear on Parliamentary
"Question Time," yesterday.

Mr Rudd pointed to
statements from Indonesia that it would not
co-operate with the Coalition's policy of turning back
asylum seeker boats.

As a result of this, Mr Rudd encouraged
Mr Abbott to "take briefings on what further could be
done," on asylum policy, challenging the Coalition
leader to get briefings from government departments
and security agencies so the Mr Abbott could talk
about "policies that work as opposed to slogans that
sound good."

Good advice, and it would be great if the advice was taken.

I only wish that we had more people in politics like
Tony Windsor and Rob Oakshott, the two Independents
who will be leaving politics after the next election.
Mr "Point of Order," Christopher Pyne made the asinine
statement that the reason the Independents are
leaving politics is that they
think they won't get re-elected. A truly asinine statement
given their 2010 election results, and a perfect example
of the type of nonsense to which the Independents (and
the former PM) have been subjected.

These two Independents are an example of how politicians
should work. They're resonable men who took their job
seriously. They insisted on scrutiny, research and
consultation. They tried to act in the best interests of
the nation, even when it had the potential to damage
their own causes.

What a shame that there's not more like them. And our
Parliement will be the poorer for their absence.

Rudd was clearly referring to *DIPLOMATIC* conflict. Only his opponents would twist his words to means something that was not said.

Lexi,

You don't reckon that talking about war with a neighbouring country is serious? You have got to be kidding. And he is about to set off on a diplomatic mission there!

Please come back Julia, all is forgiven! Julia, you should have run over the idiot with a large dozer, twice.

onthebeach,

Cheap trick by Bishop......hysterics to the rescue (she wishes)

Sit down with arms folded, children.

Who knows the difference between a diplomatic conflict and a shoot-em-up conflict?

Take your time - there's no hurry.

If Mr Rudd did say, If Tony Abbot becomes PM he would spark war with Indonesia is poor diplomatic policy and he could not be trusted to represent Australia Internationally. Mr Abbott is not proposing we go to war with Indonesia. This is absolute nonsense!

seems like Mr Rudd's biggest moral dilema for humanity is changing everyday. Yesterday global warming, today international relations and tomorrow it could be gay marriage unless of course he sniffs a change in opinion. not long before this farce is all over. The sisterhood will have even more to hate about Abbott then.

Dear onthebeach,

Do try to deal with the facts if you can.

The PM was grilled by journalists and he
touched on a wide range of major policy issues,
among them was the Coalition's slogan on asylum
seekers, "We'll tow the boats back."

What Mr Rudd actually stated was that Australia
needed "cool hands on the tiller," when dealing
with Indonesian relations. "What I am about is
diplomatic conflict. But I am always wary about where
diplomatic conflicts go." And he suggested that the
Opposition's towing the boats could lead to
escalation. That is why during "Question Time," in
Parliament yesterday, the PM advised the Coalition
leader to get briefings from government departments
and security agencies so that the Coalition leader
could talk about, "policies that work as opposed to
slogans that sound good." And the PM pointed to
statements from Indonesia that it would not co-operate with
the Coalition's slogan of turning back asylum seeker boats.
In which case this could lead to a naval showdown.

What is so difficult to understand here?
Of course, unless one wants to continue indulging
with media beat-ups and all the previous nonsense and
tactics to which the previous PM and others, have been
subjected. Then by all means - carry on and let the public
judge your attempts accordingly.

Abbott's my local member and to me is not a person of principle or substance. My view is that he is just another political opportunist who cares little for the people of this country. Gillard and Rudd are further down the food chain. We are in a wilderness political ineptitude and corruption.

Who do we vote for?

Why bother to engage with Mr. PJack. He works for the Labor Party.

Lexi,

Rudd was not being 'grilled' by journalists at all. He just doesn't seem to be able to stop himself. That ego is mountainous and he lacks judgement.

I have never agreed with his knifing by Julia Gillard. It was underhand and a plot. However I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that Rudd could well be inflicted with the personality problems that so many of his colleagues accuse him of having. God knows what he has said to leaders and diplomats of other countries in his time. He would be putty in the hands of anyone who flattered that ego and let him wind up.

Now for cartoonists to draw Rudd with a head like a hot-air balloon, floating out there in space.

It's interesting that the Abbott lovers here have been incapable of admitting that Rudd was referring to "DIPLOMATIC* conflict. They wish to continue their mendacity about what Rudd actually said.

In Rudd's address, he was almost immediately quizzed by a journalist, who asked him precisely what he meant by "conflict". Rudd then IMMEDIATELY stated he was talking about *DIPLOMATIC* conflict.

Now the ignorant and uninformed Coalition spin doctors are saying that Rudd said Australia will go to war over boat people. It's absolute hysterics, personal politics, misinforming the Australian public via LIES, and a continuation of nasty, aggressive, bitter Coalition political spin doctoring.

The 2 sides are now neck and neck in the latest poll. The Australian public will not fall for the continuation of no costed Coalition policies and aggressive spin doctoring from the Coalition.

What Does Mr Abbott Stand For?
poirot,
A hell of a lot more than Rudd could ever dream of standing for.

What Does Mr Abbott Stand For?
poirot,
A hell of a lot less than Rudd could ever dream of standing for.

Suggest everyone see http://www.globalresearch.ca/ Both the major parties sold us out a long time ago to this concept of Global Governance with no voter input from us.ie A totalitariarn world Govt that will do what it pleases.

Too many people on the planet? Solutions? Wars, famine, disease and economic collapse.

They have the power since they create from nothing,all the money for our Govts to function. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

Ah I see. It's a world wide totalitarian conspiracy. Gee, thanks for that.

Fascinating to watch a panicked Opposition comprehensively misrepresenting Kevin Rudd's comments regarding Indonesia.

Faux outrage - 1

Political substance - 0

True.

Rudd stuffed up by over egging the cake.

He should apologise to Indonesia.

"KEVIN Rudd's warning of conflict with Indonesia is a reckless mistake that betrays the sheer depth of Labor's frustration over its failure to stop the boats.

Rudd broke every rule in the book for dealing with Indonesia. His remarks misread Jakarta, risk the prospects for co-operation and are unwarranted on the basis of Tony Abbott's turning the boats policy.

Rudd's injection of possible conflict with Indonesia into his domestic row with Abbott over how to stem boat arrivals is irresponsible for an Australian prime minister."

P Jack while you have found yourself in Australia,s best forum.
You to are in this section, up to your chest in conservatives.
No not Liberals, but true conservatives.
Do not link much understanding to their posts.
They after all are Abbott fans.
And tend, like him not to care much about reality.
Abbott it is reported this morning told his team Turnbull is the man who virtually gave this country *the INTERNET*
Chuckle worthy stuff that.
Let the Libs have their due,they are the best comedy show in town.

SM,

"He should apologise to Indonesia."

But, SM, Indonesia doesn't have to resort to hysterics to represent itself as having substance.

Indonesia's Foreign Affairs spokesman (being a grown-up) stated that it's obvious that Rudd's comment was just part of the "pre-election argy-bargy" of domestic politics.

Can you explain this from Julie Bishop?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/04/julie-bishop-indonesia-ambassador-labor

It was inevitable many MPS would go with polls and bring back Rudd. They may rhetorically dismiss the importance of polls at times, but longstanding trends in polls are everything.

Rudd is more popular with younger people as morgan poll shows, and the election will be closer, although it was always going to close up when the crunch came wen people started to weigh up which major party will benefit their families the most.

Still, I think the past five years is ample reason why the ALP needs a time in opposition. Or put it this way, if they are the best option, Australia is in trouble.

I think Abbott is smarter than the haters would concede, but perhaps I am still too much of an optimist.

So the charge stands, PM Rudd should never have involved Indonesia in domestic politics. It was a diplomatic gaffe to be regretted.

James Hacker: "Foreign affairs are a complicated business, aren't they?"
Sir Humphrey Appleby: "Yes, indeed, Prime Minister. That's why we leave it to the Foreign Office."

from, "Yes, Prime Minister"

But wait a bit, the egotistical PM Rudd boasted of his diplomtic experience in the same breath as he presented the image of gun boats facing off, and war.

What a jackass, the Labor Caucas has made another blunder.

Indonesia has been dispatching boats for years into West Papua about 600 persons each day to bring the balance of Muslim population in West Papua to a majority. There armed forces shoot without question anyone that opposes them when they raid their gardens or believes in independence. The character of the Indonesian Army is well known by their East Timor invasion.

onthebeach,

The uplifting thing is that at least Indonesia appears to be displaying maturity and sophistication in their reaction to Ms Bishop's hysterics.

More than can be said for some around here.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-29/indonesia-wont-be-drawn-on-rudds-conflict-comment/4789162

So far all I see in the Coalition's armory is their rehashed boat people Dog-Whistle and a pretty impressive catalogue of pamphlets.

Anything else?

'So far all I see in the Coalition's armory is their rehashed boat people Dog-Whistle and a pretty impressive catalogue of pamphlets. '

yes Poirot even that is a bit better than the 'compassionate ' Greens/Labour who for political purposes caused over 1000 drownings.

runner,

Explain to me the exact process by which the Coalition will be able to "turn the boats around" without the co-operation of Indonesia?

(Notwithstanding that Julie Bishop intimates she's got a "secret" agreement with the Indonesians to do just that - and one which the Indonesians deny)

It's pie in the sky and incredibly simplistic to imagine that these boats will be able to be physically turned around by Australian authorities - especially while we are signatories to the convention.

Just because a pollie says "Yup, we'll turn 'em around." doesn't mean it's practically possible. That, in my opinion, is pollie rhetoric, fodder for the likes of you and others who would rather a play partisan pretendies than examine the rhetoric for nebulous promises.

Poirot

a far more honest question would be to ask how the Coalition can fix the atrocious mess caused by Rudd/Greens. The same could be said for the econmomic vandalism of the Greens/ Labour. The mess gets created by grubby socialist ideology and instead of then apologising to the public they then demand that the Coalition come up with an overnight solution.

The Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd is certainly having a strong
reaction from members of the Coalition. Panic
seems to have set in well and truly. From Julie
Bishop's hysterics to the hysterics of the screaming
female pollie in the Senate just to name a few.

Not a good look.

I can only imagine what will happen when a blow-torch is
applied to Mr Abbott.

Kevin Rudd stands for whatever is popular at the time.

In 2007 KRudd pledged to turn back the boats,
then he opened the borders,
then pledged not to swing to the right on the issue,
now pledges not to swing to the left on the issue,
now claims that turning back the boats will create conflict with Indonesia (nearly as bad as the live exports debacle)

Would the real Kevin please stand up.

HAHAHAHA

In all of this ranting you lieberal supporters still have not come up with a single policy.

It would be laughable if it wasnt so scary and irresponsible.

So come on tell us. Just one.

One costed, written in blood, "core" policy promise that the rabbott has made. Just one.

It was on the ABC news just minutes ago that Indonesia had denied Kevin Rudd's statement that such conflict could arise.

Rudd got carried away with his own ego and fluffed it, it appears. That would not be a surprise to his critics in the Labor caucus. Maybe if he had consulted with his Foreign Minister Carr, first. But no.

onthebeach,

Same story, nothing's changed. Regardless on Ms Bishop's version of "conflict'.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-29/indonesia-wont-be-drawn-on-rudds-conflict-comment/4789162

Read the article and tell me how the Indonesians feel about the Coalitions plans to turn around the boats?

............

runner,

If I thought for moment that you were genuine in your concern about the loss of life on refugee boats, and not just employing that line to score partisan points, I'd cut you some slack.

However, the reality is that most who subscribe to your line or argument are merely employing a caring and concerned front to mask their xenophobic fear and "lack" of compassion regarding refugees who arrive by boat.

(Strange as it may seem, they don't appear to give a toss about people who arrive by different means - definitely not newsworthy or employable as a lever for emotive political gain)

Mikk,

Here's one, get rid of the carbon tax. Simple.

Here's another, re implement the pacific solution.

Perhaps you could give me a costed Labor policy.

Gentlemen,

Please don't try to divert this thread.
Try to come up with something of substance
instead of blowing smoke.

Voters are not stupid - despite the fact that
Mr Abbott and your Party seems to hold them in
contempt. Have either of you two gentlemen
seen, "Our plan - Real Solutions for all
Australians?" Its the best that the Coalition
can come up with and is now being advertised
in the newspapers. But all it is - a litanty of
motherhood statements. 12 of them in total.
Things like:

1) We will build a stronger economy.
2) We will get the budget under control.
3) We will scrap the carbon tax.
4) We will help small business grow.
5) We will build a diverse 5-pillar economy.
6) We will generate two million new jobs.
7) We will build more modern infrastructure.
8) We will deliver better health.
9) We will deliver better education.
10) We will reduce carbon emissions.
11) We will deliver stronger borders.
12) We will deliver stable government.

Really? How about letting me win Tattslotto?
Will you do that as well?
Seriously - it's a joke, right?

These are people who've had years to work
on their policies, including having access to
Treasury. And what do they come up with?
Empty rhetoric. No details.

And, they seriously feel that they
deserve to govern? That Australians should
elect them on these motherhood statements.

It certainly is well past the time that the
fear campaign that
Mr Abbott and his crew have been running - be
turned against them. People need to ask
questions, and demand answers - and not fall
for the diversions that are being attempted.
Australians deserve to be able to properly
assess who deserves to govern them.

Lexi,

Look what we get from Krudd:

We'll turn around the boats,
We'll open our borders,
We'll not swing our border policy to the right,
We'll not swing our border policy to the left,
We can't turn the boats around.

Will the real Kevin stand up.

Has anyone else noticed that when ever you see the term "dog whistle" you know the poster has nothing of use to say, & it is a waste of time reading further?

Dear Hasbeen,

Some posters don't bother reading at all
as can be seen from what they type.
However, it's their comprehension skills
that are more fo a concern and the fact that they're
allowed to vote.

Poirot>> Tell me why this mediocre pollie deserves my vote on his own merits - and not on his negative assumptions regarding the present government?<<

P it all comes down to one thing...spending. The Libs will not spend and we will slowly regain a surplus.
Labor had spent what they had in Kev's first year and raised the Commonwealths credit card limit three times in six years; they have no understanding of "tomorrow."

I can't abide Barry O'Farell and his Liberal jerks in NSW, but they are repaying Labors debt. A decade of Labor ruling the States and 6 years of them ruling the Commonwealth has left us the largest State and Federal debts in our history.

P that fact coupled with economic refugees and Carbon tax will see Abbott hold the reins.

The elephant in the room is the widespread disaffection with how we have been governed - lies, deceit and protection of wrongdoers. The stuff of a banana republic.

Today, 'Gunboat' Rudd repeated his porky about a likely war with Indonesia. He knows better and Indonesia has been forced to dismiss his scaremongering, but he is shamelessly at it again.

The same fellow cried crocodile tears about people having a go at Julia, vowing to defend her name, yet he plotted her demise for years and finally succeeded.

What does 'Gunboat' Rudd stand for, apart from what is good for Kev at the time?

Dear SOG,

And why did Labor spend?

Do your research on that one old chap.

Here's a couple of links that may be of interest:

http://www.indexmundi.com/australia/economy_profile.html

http://theaimn.com/2013/03/30

Dear onthebeach,

Why don't you start your own thread on What does PM
Kevin Rudd stand for instead of trying to divert
this one.

Lexi,

My response was directed at the OP. The elephant in the room is the widespread disaffection with how we have been governed - lies, deceit and protection of wrongdoers. The stuff of a banana republic.

The alternative (LNP) government is arguing a convincing case that its way of governing would be above board and without the lies, deception, deceit and protection of wrongdoers that have been present in the two terms of Labor government.

For any with a comprehension problem, Mr Abbott is saying that he stands for ethics and principle and hopefully from my point of view, a return to the principles of the Westminster System of government.

onthebeach,

The "elephant in the room" is that Mr Abbott and his team have enjoyed many many many months without having to give an account of their vision for this country....that's changing.

Who's talking about "gunboats.

Did Rudd mention gunboats?

I know onthebeach is banging on about gunboats.

Did Rudd mention anything about "a likely war with Indonesia"?

Yes, I know onthebeach is ranting on about it.

You're just like your mentor.

Have you noticed in the last few days how each time before Mr Abbott unloads a blast of negativity, he prefixes it by saying "This is not being negative, but...."

Yeah, sure, Tony......

Poirot,

A naval frigate is a gunboat wouldn't you say? Because Rudd's scaremongering described a confrontation between Australian and Indonesian naval frigates. He also referring to the '240 million Indonesians', again insinuating there could be an invasion. He confirmed that today, figuring to bluff it out no doubt.

Rudd would have been smarter to have taken the honest way out and admit that he had run off at the mouth and it was all B.S.

The egotistical clown has damaged years of diplomacy with Indonesia. One can only imagine what other countries in the region made of Rudd's sabre rattling remarks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/28/kevin-rudd-coalition-greens-policy
Labor have confronted an unfortunate truth, need not concern its self with the ranters.
Those Liberals who agreed with me as I took the verbal base ball bat to my side now disagree with my every word.
Yet with zero doubt I am convinced Tony Abbott will soon see just how badly his advisers have been.
His mindless chanting of empty slogans.
His total lack of real policy,s.
And the very real danger, to his future some policy,s are.
Turn the boats around, failing to consider Howard only did that to 4 of the 200 plus his government saw, is trouble.
Abbott,s carbon surrender policy,s may hearten the raving non-believers but will not fit in with a big majority of voters.
I FEAR a return to Turnbull.
But it must be said, any spotlight on Abbott,s lacking ability give reason for a change in Liberal leadership.
And I FEAR THAT! just as Gillard,for that matter Abbott can/could not get voters on side Turnbull will be no easy push over.

Well, unlike "gunboat" Rudd & the red witch, who stand for spin, lies & freshly fabricated personalities, like the real Julia, Tony Abbott stands for a touch of honesty, service to the community.

A fair dinkum bloke with no pretenses or pretensions. One who is just what you see, & what you get. Actually he aught to appeal to Laborites, as the sort of bloke they used to produce, before the greens & academia took over the party & turned it into something unrecognisable lead by the unmentionable.

Time for you Labor lot to take a deep look at yourselves. Time to see you are being, & have been for years, lead by the scum that has drifted to the top of the swamp.

The Labor stinks with the electorate because it has been scandal ridden in the States and that has flowed through to the federal level.

It is enough for an alternative LNP government to demonstrate that it will endeavour not to become similarly afflicted. Although how any future government could become as prone to 'mistakes' and scandals as the State and federal Labor governments have been is difficult to imagine.

Rudd must pretend that the scandals never existed. But all that will do is allow the public concern with the lack of ethics and principles of Labor and the unions to fester away. The rotting still smells.

Rudd has said that he will be reviewing Labor policies. He has given very little away and he said it will take along time to confer. The ministry has to be finalised and there will be new faces.

A fat lot of good any of that does when the electorate knows full well that the men and women who have corrupted the party and the associated union movement for years are just keeping their heads down until after the scrutiny has passed when they will continue with their dirty business as usual.

Gentlemen,

Talking about "touches of honesty," and "dirty business."
As well as Mr Abbott's "character."
The following links are some must reads for all:

http://theaimn.com/2013/05/01/may-day-may-day/

http://theaimn.com/2013/01/19/never/

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/tony-abbott-and-his-slushy-question-of-character/

onthebeach,

Notwithstanding you're prone to exaggeration.

To describe Rudd's comments as "sabre-rattling" is bone-shakingly silly.

Who was he rattling a "sabre" at?

Apart from the ill-conceived and hardly achievable Coalition plan to "turn around the boats"?

.........

Must say it's been heartening to have a good old political stoush once again (takes me back endearingly to the Howard years)

I am genuinely surprised how many morons Rudd commands, got to give him credit for that !
It's almost like Hitler's following except the Germans were rewarded with a boom economy which the "good allied forces" then destroyed.
here Rudd has a similar following but fortunately for him morons are easily pleased so he doesn't need to be a good economic manager.

So Abbot is going to put Australian infrastructure at the top of his agenda but the only promise made is for freeways in Sydney and Melbourne and ignore the Commonwealth studies already done on the Melbourne rail tunnel and high speed trains. His visionary policy of building an agrarian utopia at the top end of Australia to feed Asia’s growing population. Asia has too much desert and too little have arable land and water to grow enough food.
He knows there is huge potential market for food in Asia there always
Asia is both ethically right and possible. Sadly he does not seem to understand the constraints standing it the way of his vision .

The UN Current estimate of refugees in the world is 40 million with many more from predicted disasters, such as rising sea levels, more extreme weather, creating millions more refugees for the foreseable future. Sadly Mr Abbot and Rudd know and both are responsible for drowning 100,000s of boat people them because the Australian navy only accounts the ones that are reported to them. The reality is that thousands of overcrowded little boats have sank without ever entering Australian territorial waters or died in traveling to and in Asian refugee camps .

At this stage Abbot’s vision reminds me of what 1970 when a utopian hippy exodus north to Queensland failed. Today all that is left is except a few villages, commune and interesting art, craft, tourist shops.

What is needed is 3 million Asians that can adapt to the heat and the desire to live in the top end most with 5 years contracts and flown in from asia. A new Land Army Division to mobilize them to use Australian agricultural knowhow initially at officer Officer and NCO level. In 5 years the trained
refugees would, work on the land, look after the livestock and crops, Fishing boats and fish farms. The mining companies know how to build suitable homes. The town ships be laid out like medium density English New Towns experienced architects and planner brought in.

The Abbott lovers can spin doctor, abuse and misrepresent all they like, but they can't avoid this *FACT* ... not even ONE of them has been able to produce even ONE fully and properly costed Abbott policy.

They have been asked on numerous occasions on this thread to do that, and they have FAILED the test.

PEST, that's pretty much the worst idea I've ever heard.
Why not send the refugees to Africa to farm? Africa has the lowest population density and some of the best farming land in the world.

Also...who said growth is going to continue in Asia? China, India, Japan and some of the smaller nations are facing the same catastrophic demographic problems as the West and most of them are trying to reduce their populations. What's more with good management and modernisation of the agricultural sector the Asian countries could support billions more people, some say that they could feed 12 billion people just in this region and still have excess capacity.

PJack

The Krudd Lovers have yet to produce a single fully costed policy yet!

ONE fully and properly costed Abbott policy.
P Jack,
can you quote one, just one Rudd policy that has worked ? You see Abbott has already been a senior member of a Government that ran the country. Rudd only ever played a major part in ruining it & the likes of you & belly are too challenged to see sense in general otherwise you'd realise how much Rudd with YOUR SUPPORT has cost Australia. And you want More ? Are you completely off your trolley ?

P Jack I did warn you.
We inhabit a strange land here in the forum in OLO.
Some very bright folk live here but do not always use the brain they have.
Two weeks ago polls meant every thing.
Today nothing!
Mathematics, the most important part of politics, love or hate them, with in a margin of error polls take the nations pulse!
Do not! as I so often did, *Quite wrongly*
Pack your bags and leave, we need all points of view.
I have, even in my aging years, learned to control my feelings, and respond in kind, to silly things.
Yes I am a pest,I confront silly things with silly things.
But keep anchored to the truth.
Great polling for Labor today is the truth.
Rant/Rave/ But do not avoid this truth we are alive and Abbott knows it.

What was that a Tea Party? There was the Mad Monk along with the old conservative mate, Weasel Howard, minus his aussie trackie dacks, fronting the Liberal bunch of knuckleheads, along with a motley collection of mostly geriatric party members. All gathered for a mighty Liberal Party election launch. What did we get, the Abbott "vision" for Australia, sure did, what is it? "ROLL UP THE RUDD CARPET" talk about shock and awe, more like mock and bore,
SM and other 'usual suspects' a couple of fair questions from Rudd, about the center piece of Liberal Party policy. "turn back the boats"

Q1 What happens if you turn back a boat and it sinks, and a couple of hundred people drown, how do you explain that to the rest of the world?

Q2 What do you do if Indonesia also turns the boat around, or is boat turning an exclusive right of Australia?

I'm very interested in your answers.

Belly Pjack gives the appearance of being another utterly partisan poster incapable of expressing a point of view, rather more party line spin.

The ongoing nonsence about fully costed liberal policies while ignoring the history of both sides in that front and the realities of the way "costings" are managed for oppositions under the current system tells the story well.

You and I differ in our political preferences but at least neither has a love for pretending that its all so different when "our" side does it. We have little chance of reforming much while the true believers on either side keep their passion for double standards.

R0bert

Paul1405, "There was the Mad Monk...."

You are obviously unaware that Kevin Rudd converted from Roman Catholicism to Anglicism and very often insisted on being interviewed outside a church when he was electioneering or making statements, including as PM. Here you go,

<Shriven, blameless, fresh from Communion, the Prime Minister [Kevin Rudd] stands at the lychgate of St John's Canberra and takes questions from the media. Although he rarely does the rounds of the Sunday current affairs shows, Kevin Rudd stands at the weathered gate of the old church on Constitution Avenue, available for the cameras, whenever Sunday finds him in Canberra.

The message is clear: Rudd is a Christian. To find a Labor leader as openly of the faith takes something like archaeology. Keating was tribal Catholic but not devout. Hawke was agnostic. Whitlam wasn't a believer. The last man to fill the bill for Labor was Andrew Fisher in the First World War.

But Rudd is the full box and dice: born a Catholic and now an Anglican, he signalled his candidacy for the top job in the nation with a thoughtful essay on Christianity in The Monthly. "It's another day," he told a press conference at the gates of St John's in the Brisbane suburb of Bulimba on the morning after his election. The other day he slipped into Mass at the Mary MacKillop Memorial Chapel in North Sydney as the story of her impending sainthood began to break.

"He can't resist the opportunity to hold media conferences outside churches," says the former candidate for the priesthood Tony Abbott. But are Australians impressed or perturbed by a commitment to faith that puts even John Howard's attachment to Christianity in the shade?>

http://www.smh.com.au/national/politics-and-religion-crossed-paths-20091225-lezy.html#ixzz2XeHO05mY

What do you think of that?

If we are to be tolerant as required by Australian legislation and the UN Charter of civil rights, we cannot discriminate or sledge on the basis of religion as you make a habit of doing.

Lexi>> Dear SOG,
And why did Labor spend?
Do your research on that one old chap.
Here's a couple of links that may be of interest:<<

Lexi my belle, here are some facts that may be of interest.

The Rudd government inherited a $90 billion comfort zone via a $20 billion Federal budget surplus and the $60 billion Future Fund. In a single parliamentary term the Labour Party has managed to turn a surplus into a $60 billion deficit. Net Federal liability has gone from zero to a projected $300 billion debt in 6 years.
The mining boom realized the largest tax receipts in Australian history….but Labor wasted every single cent of that and borrowed more.

Why?

A government costing review of the BER projects found that a building that should cost $1200 per meter cost over $3000, a building that should cost $3000 per meter cost $13000.

The insulation scheme was suspended because of serious concerns about fraud and safety that followed the deaths of four young installers, 120 house fires and claims that up to 10,000 roofs may have been electrified.

The Solar scheme was scrapped because it was not viable.
Grocery Watch,
Fuel Watch,
Housing Affordability,
Defense Funding,
Border Protection,
Computers in Schools,
Childcare Centers,
GP Super-Clinics,
Indigenous Housing,

None completed, nothing achieved and all tainted with excess waste, death, and theft.

You keep on playing personality politics Lexi, but those who possess any rationality know this Labor team are clowns, second rate self serving clowns…but like all clowns they have found an audience that are easily entertained with tricks and cunning stunts.

Poirot>> Have you noticed in the last few days how each time before Mr Abbott unloads a blast of negativity, he prefixes it by saying "This is not being negative, but...."<<

Quite right P, Tony should be positive.

I am positive we have no border control and thousands have drowned because of it.
I am positive we now have the largest debt in our history.
I am positive our kids came last of the English speaking nations in a global literacy survey.
I am positive our defense force is at its lowest operating capacity in70 years.
I am positive that Australia’s power charges are the highest in the developed nations.
I am positives that business closures have rocketed in the past six years.
I am positive that the size of the public service has rocketed in the past six years.

P, I am positive that you have an axe grinders license.

Excellent post sonofgloin. Sock it to her!

The last four years have demonstrated that Labour cannot have a fully funded policy with their vain promises of being out of debt. They even had to raid reserve bank accounts not touched for the past two years of investers, their mining and carbon taxes have failed to do the trick. They are incompentent managers of an economy, another three years of the same - means more of the same increase in debt.

All jokes aside.
Did any body else apart from me notice the prominence Rudd gave for the well worn Bible he was carrying all through the swearing in ceremony?

Dear SOG,

We've covered this ground many times.
Indeed the Howard government did achieve a series
of surplus budgets. That is not very difficult in
a time of strong economic growth which delivered
very high tax revenues. But as always you leave out
certain facts. The howard government also left
Australia with significant liabilities in
terms of our physical and intangible assets - our
common wealth. It negleglected so much. It let
fiscal impression management displace sound economic
management and directed political attention to only
one side of the public balance sheet - the debt side
while ignoring the asset side.

If the Howard cabinet had been the board of a publicly
listed company the shareholders would have thrown them out
for weakening the company's asset base.

As for the current government's economic profile the
following link sums things up rather well:

http://www.indexmundi.com/australia/economy_profile.html

It is easy to have a surplus if you don't spend any of it on infrastructure. Health, education, roads and other infrastructure were run down considerably under Howard and this is what the ALP inherited in 2007 along with the GFC.

Taxes are to provide services. If you hoard revenue just to say what a wonderful little duck am I, it begs the question why are taxes so high if they are not being used to fund services.

Dear SOG,

Talking about "personality" politics.
I thought that this is what this discussion
was actually about. The personality and
character of Mr Abbott - and what he stands
for which seems fair enough seeing as he wants
to be our next PM. And with that thought -
as you continue to point out the failures of
the government - here's a few of Mr Abbott's
just to balance things out:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/tony-abbotts-catalogue-of-failures/

Dear SPQR,

Here comes the judge, here comes the judge ...

Thanks SPQR, facts are facts, but some facts are orphans, particularly to the Labor acolytes on OLO.

Not being partisan to any party, I might take this opportunity to relay some facts on the one year old NSW O'Farrell Liberal govt. He and his government are liars.
O'Farrell regurgitated a load of lies in his policy speeches regarding the rights of landowners and the CSG licence renewal caveats…he did a Gillard…he just plain lied.
O’Farrell gave undertakings re the failed Labor solar scheme, another Gillard…plain lies. We will see what Abbott lies about, if he does lie. We will see if Abbott’s utterances are worth the kilojoules it cost to produce them.

If they are not, we are in trouble, no real servants of the people in either camp.

Yes, Pelican,

Talking of infrastructure. Australia is only second to South Korea amongst OECD countries in its expenditure on infrastructure.

http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/aa/releases/2013/March/aa057_2013.aspx

It's strange that Tony Abbott should choose that particular theme for his election campaign (besides "Turning the Boats Around" the musical)

So Australia is already a world leader in investing in infrastructure.

One would think he'd choose a theme where Labor has been lacking.

Here's Mr Abbott waxing lyrical.

I'll have to add that I'm none the wiser as to his and his team's substance than I was before the interview (but that, it seems, is to be expected)

So the upshot according to Tony is...

"We are better than them."

"We are more stable."

Okay....

"We are going to implement an emissions reduction fund."

Electors will lose the carbon tax (you know the one which hasn't affected people)...but, wait for it, "People will lose the carbon tax 'but' they will get to keep the carbon tax compensation."

Excellent, Tony. Care to tell us the reasoning behind that?

His US style presidential campaign launch was to say "Here I am - and we stand for certainty and stability."

Okay.

"Rudd can talk the talk."

Tony can't.

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/watch/17805418/abbott-unfazed-by-labor-polling/

"If we are to be tolerant as required by Australian legislation and the UN Charter of civil rights, we cannot discriminate or sledge on the basis of religion as you make a habit of doing." Habit! I do it all the time, I consider the Catholic Church a criminal organisation akin to the mafia, certainly not a religion.

Beach person, is referring to some women as the "handbag hit squad" covered by the above.

I am not a Rudd supporter, As a clear cut conservative and a supporter of the "turn back the boats" policy how about putting your answer to Rudds questions.

Q1 What happens if you turn back a boat and it sinks, and a couple of hundred people drown, how do you explain that to the rest of the world?

Q2 What do you do if Indonesia also turns the boat around, or is boat turning an exclusive right of Australia?

I'm very interested in your answers.

Without climate change Tony Abbott could not have become leader of his party.
At that time much like Americas Republican party it was cool, for some,to say climate change is crap.
Now look at Tonys plan, overall it will reward land owners/farmers for growing trees.
And tax us not the polluters.
Any room for thought here?
Has the time in between Abbott,s rise and now changed the views on climate change.
Labor did not get it right, hamstrung by the greens we followed orders, tax not trading scheme.
See we all, both party,s all leaders other than Tony wanted a trading scheme.
Polls clearly say Labor has not yet got it right, but watch this space.
Those polls too, show most want action on climate change.
Now Rudd, bless you Kev!is on the move, can Tony take us in the other direction?
Tony me mate you must avoid giving speeches near cliffs sandy beaches you could be part of the sand slide in to the sea.

Poirot,

If you imagine that Australia is keeping on top of its infrastructure needs you really haven't had a look around the State capitals for at least 10 years. There is a desperate need for new infrastructure.

The cause was and is over-enthusiastic migration. Mr Rudd, as many will recall, is BIG on his "Big Australia". In fact, it was Kevin Rudd's one man band crusade for high migration and population growth that was one of the crucial factors that drove Julia Gillard's challenge against him and she promised a reduction on becoming PM. Growth is good says Kev and forget sustainability.

Population growth,
<..demographer Mark McCrindle says the growth in the population is being driven by net migration, and he says the 40 million milestone will come earlier than the ABS estimates.

"The proportion of the net migration to our population growth has increased from 54 per cent a year ago to now 60 per cent of our growth," he said.

"We can say that Australia has world-beating population growth right now. The world is growing 1.1 per cent per annum and Australia [at] 1.7 per cent is really out in front.

"When you compare us to comparable developed nations, we really are ahead of the comparisons."

And he says the population is on track to hit 40 million by the middle of the century>

Any wonder that for years State premiers have been demanding a reduction in migration. They just haven't been able to keep up with infrastructure demands. The public are feeling over-taxed because of the costs of providing new infrastructure. There are practically public revolts over the increases in price of energy and water. In some cities, council rates have blown out by over 60% over several years.

Has Kevin Rudd forgotten his "Big Australia"? Probably not! But Kevin Rudd is not saying, is he?

chrisgaff1000, "Did any body else apart from me notice the prominence Rudd gave for the well worn Bible he was carrying all through the swearing in ceremony?"

That is Kevin Rudd to a tee. He does like to flaunt his religion. This from his previous time as PM,

<Shriven, blameless, fresh from Communion, the Prime Minister [Kevin Rudd] stands at the lychgate of St John's Canberra and takes questions from the media. Although he rarely does the rounds of the Sunday current affairs shows, Kevin Rudd stands at the weathered gate of the old church on Constitution Avenue, available for the cameras, whenever Sunday finds him in Canberra.

The message is clear: Rudd is a Christian. To find a Labor leader as openly of the faith takes something like archaeology. Keating was tribal Catholic but not devout. Hawke was agnostic. Whitlam wasn't a believer. The last man to fill the bill for Labor was Andrew Fisher in the First World War.

But Rudd is the full box and dice: born a Catholic and now an Anglican, he signalled his candidacy for the top job in the nation with a thoughtful essay on Christianity in The Monthly. "It's another day," he told a press conference at the gates of St John's in the Brisbane suburb of Bulimba on the morning after his election. The other day he slipped into Mass at the Mary MacKillop Memorial Chapel in North Sydney as the story of her impending sainthood began to break.>

ww.smh.com.au/national/politics-and-religion-crossed-paths-20091225-lezy.html

Here's a Sunday Profile interview with Mr Abbott from 2005.

I found it reasonably enlightening - far more than anything that's emanating from his direction of late.

Worth a read.

http://www.abc.net.au/sundayprofile/stories/s1389511.htm

Poirot,

Of course you win. Abbott could never hold a candle to Saint Kevin from Nambour in any religious joust.

<"Kevin Rudd's politics of piety put on parade"
.....
In his own eyes he's the nation's number one church-goer, the politician who brands himself with St John's heritage-listed chapel in the Canberra suburb of Reid in the background in much the same way John Howard made his mark in an Aussie tracksuit walking his way around the world.

Rudd's faith is a given for most Australians, although Abbott, a Catholic whose own faith was such that he considered the priesthood, sometimes throws out muffled hints that it might not be as genuine as it appears.

After the 2004 election loss Rudd's mission to become Labor leader went into hyper-drive and faith was one of the cards he played, appearing on the ABC's religious program Compass to discuss why parties of the Left should engage with the Christian community.

He told host Geraldine Doogue that he worried colleagues might see him as a "slightly besotted God botherer".

Rudd didn't need to worry too much.

He already had a reputation as something of a God botherer, a persona he coloured in himself when he worked for Wayne Goss in Brisbane.

And, being the details-obsessed politician that he is, Rudd was running a multi-tracked strategy at the time which included appealing to the blokey constituency in the Labor Caucus by swearing a lot and telling bawdy tales.

Soon after Rudd became Prime Minister he introduced the Sunday morning doorstop outside the Reid church. Nothing speaks solid, respectable and trustworthy leadership more than this almost weekly image.

Howard, who was a man of sincere faith, never did this.

Perhaps the most shameless example of the politics of piety was when Rudd wrapped himself in the looming sainthood of the late Mary MacKillop.>
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/kevin-rudds-politics-of-piety-put-on-parade/story-e6frerff-1225813655079

A win to Kevin, most definitely. The sun rises with him. God is on his side and he does come from God's Own Country. LOL

onthebeach,

I posted an interview with Tony Abbott.

I was interested to read what he had to say.

Why don't you toddle off and grow up a bit.

Poirot>> If you imagine that Australia is keeping on top of its infrastructure needs you really haven't had a look around the State capitals for at least 10 years. There is a desperate need for new infrastructure<<

I believe you are right P.

Labor governments ruled the states for the last decade....hence no infrastucture....but we have the debt.

Can't take the credit for that, sonofgloin.

I believe it was onthebeach.

Poirot, interesting interview. Not too dissimilar from some of the other stuff I've hear from him. For me nothing particularly alarming in his reponses. Did you get a different impression from it?

R0bert

RObert,

No, same impression as you.

Nothing "alarming" at all. In fact, he comes across quite well, even a little humble (always a good quality).

But, you know, I don't think he translates well in political life. I linked to an interview he did with Sunrise this morning, and frankly he came across as wishy-washy...his mouth was moving and words were flowing forth, but he wasn't really "saying" anything, if you get my drift.

My feeling is that now he actually has to fight for the Prime Ministership (Notwithstanding at present he's still in the box seat), I'm dubious as to whether he has the mettle to contend with Rudd.

Time will tell.

But keep anchored to the truth.
Belly,
The truth ? Then why don't you confirm the truth Rudd & Co failed miserably. You either don't know what truth is or you're simply too selfish to care what your lot did to many working Australians. Some Union Rep you must have been, Geez !

sonofgloin, "Labor governments ruled the states for the last decade....hence no infrastucture....but we have the debt"

Agreed, they have always had 'better' ways of spending the money, but the pigeons keep coming home to roost. However the same State Labor governments were consistently critical of their federal counterparts for continually setting new records of migration while all of the migrants lobbed in the big cities. Sydney's problems is one example.

In Queensland, that blithering idiot federal minister Peter Garrett hung Premier Anna Bligh out to dry by refusing the Traverston Dam at a very late stage. Queensland had to go ahead with hugely expensive and environmentally damaging desalination plants, while the water that could have been held by the Traverston later flooded Gympie and surrounding areas before lost, flowing out to sea.

Poirot, but he wasn't really "saying" anything'.

I do get that, I'm not entirely sure the small target approach is one Abbott is very comfortable with. Not one I like but I can understand the choice, a sad reflection on where politics has got to overall.

My own impression of him over the years is that much of the bad press he gets is the same lies and spin shouted over and over by his enemies rather than his lived values. Like a lot of men of our generation struggling with the balance between traditional values and where they find themselves now. He seems to not have a problem with strong competent women in his close circles but does not do so well with those who try and use their gender as a weapon.

I related to what I heard when he admitted to being uncomfortable around gays, the attacks on him over that bothered me. I liked the honest of admitting being uncomfortable while still seemingly being willing do accept equality in most issues (I disagree with his stance on gay marriage but as I understand it Gillard and Rudd both voted against that).

I liked that he admitted that what he says on the fly is not always true, I'd prefer that the reality was different but also prefer that honesty to the pretence of those who lie and pretend they don't.

As for ticker to take on Rudd I'm undecided. He seemed to not have problems last time round but then it looks a lot like Gillard was white anting Rudd behind the scenes (as it appears Rudd was doing to Gillard during her term). We may never have had Abbott dealing with a Labor PM without inside help so it is hard to tell.

But then Gillard and her supporters are still in parliament and some of them may have mixed feelings about Rudd saving the ALP from political decimation. It would be so tempting to ensure Rudds revival of Labor fortunes was a little less than outstanding if you were on the outer.

R0bert

Beach person and the rest of you conservative rabble, Noticed none took up the offer to answer Rudds 2 questions on turning back the boats.
Come on, what will the Mad Monk do if Indonesia send the boats right back in his direction? It's a rhetorical question; the fool would s#@t himself.
Beach, if ever again I should be subjected to a "verbal" in the streets of Marrickville by a couple of Jew nutters over the Greens support for the Palestinian people I will remember that "UN Charter of civil rights, (where) we cannot discriminate or sledge on the basis of religion" before I tell them to shove their Torah where the sun don't shine.
I don't know how much "political experience" you have outside of posting on this soft soap forum, but if you were to get out in the real world of the streets of the inner burbs of Sydney sometime during an election campaign, and if all you cop is being sledged with a tag like "your the Mad Monk" you would be getting off light. In my book politicians are fair game, including those from my side of the fence.

Paul1405,

ATM the people smugglers highly profitable business model permits them to choose the cheapest, expendable vessels and cruise just offshore to international waters. Phone contact with counterparts in Australia ensures the Australian navy cab rushes to the scene.

Because the smuggling gang and the Oz contacts are not part of the same gang (I would assume) the authorities are legally frustrated, with the bonus that the smuggling gang's anonymity is assured.

There are a number of ways of attacking the problem. If it was my watch I would not be allowing people smugglers to dictate where the naval vessels are located, which has also been compromising their other main roles. If necessary I would put small, fast coastal vessels on watch, restricting their distance of operation and carrying capacity. Again, aerial coastal surveillance should not be compromised by the dictates of people smugglers. Indonesia doesn't allow people smugglers to dictate its patrol boat dispersal and operational priorities.

The government's decision to keep decision makers and courts up to date with the situation in other countries is good.

What Howard did very successfully was to ensure smugglers' vessels had fuel and tow them back to the brink of Indonesian waters, having contacted the Indonesian authorities for cooperation, which was given. It doesn't take many tows to break the smugglers' business model as far as their clients are concerned.

Been an interesting swim in the warm waters of OLO this morning.
I have seen us who think Turnbull may comeback branded funny but closed minds and all that.
This thread is another switched to the boats rather than its intended path.
*Do we care*
Do we want to resolve the issue or Abbott like turn it in to a weapon?
If today the ALP installed the very little of Howard,s policy,s the boats would still come at the same volume?
We would not, for the sake of returning 4 from 200 as Howard did, upset our neighbor.
We will, this very week, see improvements in controlling the arrivals.
If Labor wins the election, and can get it past the air wasters senate, stop them dead.
Malaysia will be implemented.
Yes pain and all that seems the best and maybe only way to do it,

Beach, That is all well and good and I do not dispute the fact that the boats have to be stopped, nor do I dispute that the Howard solution was effective at the time. However times change, can Abbott categorically guarantee that "having contacted the Indonesian authorities for cooperation, (cooperation will be) given." Last October Abbott had the opportunity to raise this very issue at the highest level in Indonesia, he failed to do so, Why? Was Abbott afraid a rebut from Indonesia would destroy his slogan policy of "I'll turn back the boats."
As a politician Abbott is well aware that a slogan is not policy, but is designed to appeal to the bottom feeders in society, I will admit it is a vote winner, but is it the way an aspiring PM should act.

No comments on the lie that Abbot is going to put Australian infrastructure at the top of his agenda. The one infrastructurer promise was building an agrarian utopia at the top end of Australia to feed Asia’s growing population.
He knows there is huge potential market for food in Asia there always was. He
ethically right and it is possible but at enormous cost . Sadly he does not seem to understand the constraints standing it the way of his vision. However he must be aware of top end development failures in the past

PEST! my regards and thanks!
Great stuff I saw the pain and fear in your use of the word lie!
Just a tip from an old bloke, never let the other bloke know you are hurt.
He maybe hurt too and thinking of chucking in the towel.
Your next punch may take him out.
Having great day, all my pain and fear,years in the making is washed away.
Uncle Kevin is back and going strong.

Belly>> Having great day, all my pain and fear,years in the making is washed away.
Uncle Kevin is back and going strong.<<

I am glad to hear that china, we all like see treachery get it’s just reward....but Kev is the same old failure that he was while he governed.....anyone have a spare deck chair?

Paul 1405>> Beach, That is all well and good and I do not dispute the fact that the boats have to be stopped, nor do I dispute that the Howard solution was effective at the time. However times change,<<

Yes Paul we went from a sovereign nation to a turnstile for economic venture capitalists…..another Kev policy that cost us BILLIONS.

My local teaching hospital will not take on any new cancer cases…..no bloody money for us….BILLIONS for strangers. Kevin or Gillard they are incompetent clowns by their own track record.

Dear SOG,

More nonsense from you.

Kevin Rudd saw us through the global financial crisis
of 2008. His apology to the Indegenous people
will go down in history. And Mr Rudd will undoubtedly
continue with the great achievements of
his predessor - that has given Australia a gold
AAA rating by all four credit agencies and a stable
economy that world can only envy:

http://www.indexmundi.com/australia/economy_profile.html

Stop buying into the MSM's garbage:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/business/media-2/ten-reasons-why-most-australian-msm-journalists-are-absolute-shyte/

Kevin is a good bloke but not a leader! He cannot make leadership decisions on his own, he wants consultation. Time consuming and waste of a 1,000 voices. Anyone who listens to all points of view only becomes unsertain in his decisions. I say a leader has a clear vision of what should happen and is able to inspire the troops that his decision is right.

Lexi,
Are you inferring that the Liberal Party in Govt will spoil Australia's Credit Rating?

Josephus,

You are kidding, aren't you.

Rudd was roundly criticised for his autocratic style the first time round.

His pledge to consult widely this time is in response to that.

Lexi>> Dear SOG,

More nonsense from you.

Kevin Rudd saw us through the global financial crisis
of 2008. His apology to the Indegenous people
will go down in history.<<

We have been down this road before Lexi, you and I. So I will address it as I did before.

GFC-NORTHERN HEISPHERE:
Banks needed taxpayer bailout.
Australia:
Not a cent.
GFC-NORTHERN HEISPHERE:
Tens of thousands lose their homes because of subprime loans.
Australia:
Not one.
GFC-NORTHERN HEISPHERE:
Unemployment numbers skyrocket.
Australia:
Employment numbers stay stable.
GFC-NORTHERN HEISPHERE:
Highest business bankruptcy and foreclosure rates since the Great Depression.
Australia:
No spike in numbers.
GFC-NORTHERN HEISPHERE:
GDP takes a severe fall.
Australia:
Nothing.

Lexi my belle, you live, you breathe, but you see nothing other than party rhetoric.

Rudd stimulated the economy…what a joke. He stimulated the retailers to import RECORD electrical and white goods that year….retailers still look back fondly on that year. The year everyone got a new IMPORTED telly or refrigerator or….

About Rudd’s apology to our first Aussies, I note that there was no apology for lying about the Indigenous Housing Program….Labor blew half the funds and did not build a single house.

Joesephus>> Kevin is a good bloke but not a leader! He cannot make leadership decisions on his own, he wants consultation. Time consuming and waste of a 1,000 voices. Anyone who listens to all points of view only becomes unsertain in his decisions. I say a leader has a clear vision of what should happen and is able to inspire the troops that his decision is right.<<

Well sighted J.
There is a line from a Richards Clapton song called Best Years of Our Lives:
“Looking for a leader on our hands and knees.”

I feel we are in that position now. The leaders in the Labor party have had enough and left, the factions murdered and chased off the individual, as they did at branch level.

The names in the Liberals camp give no solace, Abbott the untested, Turnbull the undecided, and the last straw, Hockey the unpalatable.

At least two of these guys strike me as just followers with bravado masquerading as a vanguard, and only Abbotts parliamentary "stuff the carbon tax" stance gives me some hope towards rationality... but on the face of it there are no point men among them.

But I gave Kev and Gillard a go, and so I will for Abbott, but if he, his team, and their policies fail I will slam him for it. I did not expect integrity from Kev and Gillard, but I expect it from the self confessed christian.

Dear me, does anybody see the contradiction in saying "he's an obsessive micro-manager who everyone hates" and "he can't make decisions, he ahs to coinsult with everyone"?

In his first term he faced a hostile caucus controlled by a man who had a gun to the head of the most obvious successor and only let Rudd in because he knew Gillard couldn't beat Howard. That no longer applies.

This will be a very different PM to the one we saw last time.

sonofgloin,

The key word in Global Financial Crisis, I suggest, would be "Global".

Of course, it wouldn't occur to you that your Australian examples were "because" of the "timely" action taken to stimulate the economy.

Antiseptic>> This will be a very different PM to the one we saw last time.<<

Anti , Rudd won’t win this year, but what caught my interest on his return was that some of the first rhetoric to come from his mouth concerned a “reformation” (my word) of the Party. If all he does is bring the party back to a point where greedy bastards like Obeid and MacDonald were the pariahs, not the norm, he's done enough for Australia.

sonofgloin,

"...Rudd won't win this year..."

It's pretty hard to get your heads around that possibility, isn't it?

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/morgan-poll-july1-2013-201307010635

What difference a week makes.

Poirot, "What difference a week makes"

As the honeymoon wears off the bounce will be lost.

Buyer's Remorse will set in as voters recall the scandals, waste and high taxes, and the internal disunity that festers below the surface.

Spin didn't work for Whitlam and it will not work for Rudd.

Poirot>> sonofgloin,

The key word in Global Financial Crisis, I suggest, would be "Global". Of course, it wouldn't occur to you that your Australian examples were "because" of the "timely" action taken to stimulate the economy<<

P, I understand the term “global” it fitted the collapse because all nations trade. But it did not affect Australia to any great degee. Our GDP hardly moved
2008 1,034-2009 976- 2010 1,244- 2011 1,541-2012 2013 1,589- Billions

Re Australia, we have a unique domestic economy, we are scattered in population bursts like flies around a plate. Small and medium businesses can’t trade across borders like the northern hemisphere; we have a “closed” domestic economy when compared to the northern hemisphere.

As the numbers indicate P, 2009 was more brutal than 2007/2008. I certainly recall clients remarking exactly that.

Re the stimulus that was handed directly to the taxpayer, as I said that went on imports.

Re the stimulus via the BER and Pink Batts, most of that was stolen, the local bloke got crumbs at below market rate and the likes of the now bankrupt Reid Group got everybody’s share.

Poirot>> It's pretty hard to get your heads around that possibility, isn't it?<

P this poll probably is the most significant in poll history. The poll reflects how much the electorate despises Gillard, and that’s about all this early on, you must realize that…surely….

sonofgloin,

What this poll reflects, now that that their whipping girl has been removed, is the stark reality that Tony "don't really stand for nothin'".

There's a big hole where the substance should be.

And trying to plug it up with an hysterical Muppet in the shape of Julie Bishop, doesn't really cut it.

Poirot your claim about Gillard being a wiping girl are in part true.
But a host of other things about her are too.
She has her spot in history.
But it will also tell of her early extrems, her possible involment in the so called AWU scandal.
It will tell of her not wanting to raise pensions.
And that she could not sell her party or self,and never would have.
Her removal was vital, and no more bloody than her removal of Rudd.
In getting that job done my party sees many problems leaveing the house.
And other troubles will be confronted reform is assured.
Abbott stands for? look to Bolt, Jones, Sky news, look to Murdock, you will see what he stands for.
It like his supporters is an ugly sight but lies are standard practice for them, not policy,s.

Belly,

My main observation is that now Gillard is no longer the big fat target, the Opposition is going to have to produce a bit of animated action....and I don't mean that in the sense of every time Rudd speaks, having Ms Bishop enact a Shakespearean tragedy.

Too many unknown and unskilled in the new Rudd Cabinet. The experienced Labor members have resigned from politicts.

Josephus,

Well judging from the electorate's perception of those previously in cabinet, their experience didn't count for much.

We had a cabinet of "experience" about to go gushing down the political gurgler - big time.

Dear SOG.,

Here's a few more facts:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/tony-abbotts-budget-reply-porkie-pies/

Lexi,

Here are some more facts,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-01/former-labor-mp-craig-thomson-back-in-court-on-fraud2c-theft-c/4791192

What specifically is PM Kevin Rudd and Labor's side-kicks the Greens Protest Party under Christine Milne doing to prevent such cases arising again?

What policies are being pursued to prevent the union interference in Caucus and in day to day administration that has been a feature of the federal Labor/Greens government?

Dear onthebeach,

I'm not privy to what the PM intends to do in the
future. I imagine though that these matters will
be settled in court - as will Mr Abbott's "slush-fund,"
and other litigations pending.

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/tony-abbott-and-his-slushy-question-of-character/

Lexi,

Alan Austin is capable only of writing polemics against the coalition. His article is almost entirely his own biased opinion, and factually very light and generally off the point. The reason that no reputable paper spotted the "lies" is because intelligent people didn't see them.

Lexi,

I don't mind that you defend Pauline Hanson. That is fair enough. Many believe she was given a rough trot by the established parties, LNP, Labor and Greens, and by 'Progressive' commentators especially, who loved to play unfairly on her more rudimentary education. I don't agree with what Abbott is alleged to have done.

Pauline is not my cup of tea, but I do believe she is frank and has the good of the country at heart. She is heaps better than (say) the Greens' Shoebridge or the seat polishing Greens senators in Canberra and the lunar Rhiannon(Brown).

It is regretable that ordinary people in small parties are sledged out of participating in politics by bullies who have had the benefit of a better education and better opportunity.

Now would you like to reply to my earlier post, instead of ducking and diverting?

SM,

http://independentaustralia.net/2013/business/media-2/ten-reasons-why-most-australian-msm-journalists-are-absolute-shyte/

onthebeach,

I've already answered the question in your previous post.
Go back and read it.

Lexi,

I always try to respond to a poster, even where the person has stone-walled and ducked the issues.

Up to you of course, but there isn't much to lose on a discussion site and maybe something to spark some re-thinking of long held views. I can understand why people might sign up mentally to the various political parties. But we are not debating for sheep stations here and nothing ventured, nothing gained

onthebeach,

You keep on responding as you see fit.
And I shall do the same. I have answered
your questions - and if you don't like the
answers - well that's not my problem.
As I stated earlier - I am not privy to what
the PM is going to do with any court cases -
pending,
but I imagine that he shall do what the
previous PM did - and that was leave it to the
courts to decide the outcomes. I can't make it
any clearer for you. You can always contact the
PM via email - and ask him.

Lexi>> Dear SOG.,

Here's a few more facts<<

Lexi I am not a Lib fan or Abbott for that matter, but I have a fair idea of whom is bank rolling who…..

The media controllers like Murdoch run with one over the other for their personal interest and this has been the way of the world since cuneiform.
My interest is in policy and the effective progression of the implementation of the policies. Labor failed at all they touched for six years… failed spectacularly while setting new records for debt and incompetence.

Dear SOG,

The economic experts don't agree with you.
Neither does the Reserve Bank the International
Monetary Fund and all the global credit agencies.
But hey, you think you know it all, and in fact
you don't. That clearly points to a political
career with the Liberal Party.
Good Stuff!

Lexi>> Dear SOG,

The economic experts don't agree with you.
Neither does the Reserve Bank the International
Monetary Fund and all the global credit agencies<<

Lexi the only reason we have a AAA credit rating is because of what we can did up and what we can grow. This coupled with our largest trading partner (China) whose economy is still growing is the sole reason we have not been knocked down a peg or two on the global credit rating system.

Only an economic imbecile would suggest that carrying a $300 billion in debt is no different to $20 billion credit, which is what we had before Kev and Gillard lifted our borrowing limit 3 times in 6 years.

SOG Gday bloke, just a tip, never call or infer your opponent is what you did in that post.
Glass houses and all that!
Now my well informed friend what is the level of debt of America? Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Greece, Kiwi land,
How did they get that debt.
What is their credit rating.
How many unemployed still post GFC.
Mr Tony Abbott loves ya bloke!
He thrives on such people who pick up every rant and run with it.
Loves ya, Australia however does not love Tony.
Rudd however can side step all that and will.

Dear SOG,

Do a bit more research on the subject -
then we can talk some more. And don't call
yourself an "economic imbecile." All you need
do is take a course in "Lateral Thinking 101."

Dear Belly,

Things are looking up.

PM Kevin Rudd is showing his lateral thinking,

<Beef with Jakarta on new PM Kevin Rudd's menu

THE revival of Australia's stricken $500 million live cattle export trade with Indonesia will be a key agenda item in talks between Kevin Rudd and Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono on Friday aimed at boosting the business relationship between the two countries.

The cattle industry is hopeful last week's change of prime minister provides the catalyst for Indonesia to resume or boost its live cattle orders from Australia, two years after Australia's five-week ban on exports over accusations of "barbaric cruelty" in Indonesian abattoirs deeply offended our nearest neighbour>

If agreed by Indonesia, that is something that the Opposition doesn't have to stand for.

Did Rudd walk that through the consultation process with Caucus though

I'm a bit put out.

I was going to post an article from the SMH by Turnbull, circa 2009, calling Abbott's policy on climate change "Bullsh!t".

Except I couldn't post it because the "profanity" was in the article title, so couldn't be altered.

Oh well.....

Really Lexi,

"Ten reasons why most Australian MSM journalists are absolute shyte", by a social science teacher with absolutely no journalistic experience.

The main stream media has a journalistic code of ethics and independent fact checkers who require at least two sources, or confirmation. While errors do slip through they are few and far between.

Notably the IA and New Matilda do not adhere to the same standards.

The AAA credit rating was achieved under Howard, after paying back Labor's debt. This now seems under threat as the rating agencies voice concerns at Australia's inability to balance the budget.

PJack,

You have also completely failed to provide even one of Labor's fully costed policies.

Who needs policies when you've got pamphlets.

Just ask the Coalition.....

Poirot>> Who needs policies when you've got pamphlets.
Just ask the Coalition.....<<

While we are on pamphlets P.
Do you think the government back benchers will start putting the "Labor" brand back on their pamphlets and hand outs now that Kev is back? With Gillard they seemed more ashamed of their party than the welded on acolytes on OLO.

Belly>> SOG Gday bloke, just a tip, never call or infer your opponent is what you did in that post.
Glass houses and all that!<<

China why is that term not appropriate to one who believes that a record debt is a badge of courage and identifies it as strategic spending in response to the GFC. Our banks were not in trouble, we did not have foreclosures, our GDP hardly faltered in 2007 or 2008 and acolytes claim that Rudd saved us, saved from what?

Belly don’t get too tied up in the gravitas of the word imbecile. If we were discussing engineering I would describe myself as an engineering imbecile.

sonofgloin,

I believe all the pamphlet makers are fully booked up until the election making them for the Coalition.

I mean so say, whenever an Opposition member is asked a question on future policy direction, up pops a pamphlet.

If you don't believe me, I'm sure there's a pamphlet available from one of your friendly Libs to explain it more fulsomely.

Poirot>> If you don't believe me, I'm sure there's a pamphlet available from one of your friendly Libs to explain it more fulsomely.<<

P, I am not questioning your veracity on the pamphlet thing, simply making an observation about Labor pamphlets.

At least Abbott is true to his word, he said you can’t rely on what comes from his lips, but he will stand by it in hard copy.

So P, a bit unfair slamming them for answering all questions with a pamphlet, but that’s the what Tony said he was going to do....well not in so many words....I just followed cause and effect.

sonofglon,

The problem is that they don't "answer all questions" with anything.

Their pamphlet ploy is rather light on detail.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/tony-abbott-policy-gap-coalition?CMP=twt_gu

SOG just reminding you, you told me you would kick the Libs just as hard if they come to office.
This morning I read in another thread the west is to blame for the middle east.
What are your politics?
See SM is here, still with his back turned to public opinion, all he needs is his own.

All so worried about announced policies.

Current PM - There is no circumstance in which he would return to the leadership of the party.

Previous PM - No carbon tax under a government lead by her.

Some ALP voters are still upset that Howard once did a "never ever" to the GST, later had a change of mind and took it to an election as an announced policy.

So how much use are announced policies when those we elect to power so willing to break their word.

The focus on lack of announced detailed opposition policy by those who broadly support the left looks like nothing more than dishonest spin.

R0bert

Excuse us, RObert,

You seem to think it's unreasonable that we're asking for a "more detailed vision" from Mr Abbott and Co.

I'll let you in on a secret (I'm thinking that both parties are not really that dissimilar.....there are many areas in which I'm dissatisfied pertaining to modern social policy).

Yet, I'm interested in the machinations of leadership and policy setting.

Why shouldn't Mr Abbott be called to account "this late in the race"?

He's been allowed to coast in a contest whereby the media was more likely to concentrate on how big his opponents butt was (you get my drift). Now the game has changed and he's being called on to sell his vision - with a little more detail.

That can only be seen as a plus in any healthy political model.

The Labor/Greens government is the most foul, scandal-ridden federal government in history. It is linked with and directed by union heavies who themselves are mired in fraud, corruption and crime.

It is also a government where an ex-PM, deposed and scourged as mentally unfit - chaotic and power-driven (among worse epithets) by his own colleagues and by the union heavies who interfere in Caucus - has been returned to the role. The 'punters', as politicians and their spin-masters insultingly cat-call responsible, law-abiding citizens, are supposed to 'suck it up' and forget what has been said before.

The Labor/Greens government has displayed complete contempt for the electorate.

Here is just one example of a Labor and union embarrassment that has dragged on for years thanks to blocking action by the Labor/Greens government. So much for the many lowly paid workers who put their trust in the union and Labor:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/craig-thomson-heckled-outside-melbourne-magistrates8217-court/story-fni0fee2-1226672447313

I am waiting as most people are, to put out the rubbish in Canberra. I want a date to look forward to and it cannot come quickly enough. In the interim, if Mr Rudd wants to build some credibility, what about some action to break the control union heavies wield in his own Labor Caucus? How did he get back, by the way?

Poirot,

If you want to see what KRudd stands for, simply look at all the popular coalition policies. That is exactly what KRudd did last time. His "me too" covered everything except work choices.

Note that suddenly Illegal immigrants are "economic refugees" and his vow not to swing to the right has evaporated. KRudd and Labor cannot be trusted.

Belly>> SOG
What are your politics?<<

Years ago when I joined OLO you asked me that.

I mentioned to you then “democratic socialist” to which you replied NAZI. I didn’t bother to point out that NAZI’s were “national socialists” and you have painted me right wing ever since.

Particularly because I bag poor governance you place me in opposition to socialist ideology. As I have said for years, I grew up with socialists and your current Labor crop is centralists.

China I replied to the Arab thing on your Arab thread.

RObert>> So how much use are announced policies when those we elect to power so willing to break their word.<<

Yeah that is about it sport, who cares what comes out of their mouths we should judge only outcomes.

Do you remember Kev and the PR machine grinding out a line that Kev was an economic frugalist back in 2007 and Labor deficits would be a historic memory….nah he was no spend thrift…..can’t believe a word….it’s outcomes that speak the volumes.

Seen Kev on the news this morning, if he was not such a dud, you could almost like his tenacity for role of Labor savior.

Yes, SM,

I'm inclined to agree with you.

I've noted the ramping up of the "economic migrant" line too.

Populist - media-driven........Yep!

Shadow Minister>> Note that suddenly Illegal immigrants are "economic refugees" and his vow not to swing to the right has evaporated. KRudd and Labor cannot be trusted.<<

That is an interesting juxtaposition on a current bug bear of mine SM.

I suffered through more than a decade of corrupt and incompetent NSW Labor governments. I reeled as term after term non performing self serving ideologues were voted back in to rule my States future.

Then when the stench of decay and corruption was overpowering we got Barry O’Farrell and his Liberal team. O’Farrell has broken or ignored some of his most undamental pledges to the electorate on issues like CSG and the rights of the individual over the corporation…he has told many more porkies than Gillard.

SM I am not disputing your statement but your lot are as self serving as the Labor rabble. Time will show who Abbott, Turnbull and Hockey are owned by, us or vested interests

SOG,

You reel off a litany of Labor corruption and failures, and then try and claim that the liberals have done the same with only feeble attempt to provide examples.

There is a huge difference between BOF not doing everything you feel he promised on CSG, and the blatant lying of Juliar in abandoning a iron clad guarantee, and back flipping on just about every fundamental promise.

SM,

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3886792.html

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-dirt-on-dodging-the-gfc-20100531-wr5e.html

http://theaimn.com/2013/01/19/never/

It's always good to read from a variety of sources.
Gives one a more informed overview than simply
the extremely narrow, predictable and strident views
presented in the MSM.

BTW: What qualifications do either Alan Jones or
Andrew Bolt possess? Both need to take a
course in "Journalism 101," because of the factual
errors and misrepresentations their views contain.

the MSM.

Shadow Minister>> There is a huge difference between BOF not doing everything you feel he promised on CSG, and the blatant lying of Juliar in abandoning a iron clad guarantee, and back flipping on just about every fundamental promise.<<

I have never contradicted or discounted your comments on the current incompetent Labor mob. I have shot at Wobbles, Belly, Poirot, Lexi, Paul and a host of other posters for being welded on’s.

If you cannot see the moral liability of politicians to enact what they have pledged is unilateral, that no one party owns it, we will never have accountable government in Australia.

The CSG promises were big SM, How would you like a corporation to run freehold over the land you own? O'Farrell promised to halt new mining applications and review the ones for renewal, but a few week in and he granted and renewed licenses.

The only positive thing he has done is haul back on spending and pay some of our debt….but that’s his job and gets paid plenty to do it.

Lexi,

It is clear that you have no maths, science or accounting background, for if you did, you would realise that the 3 opinion pieces you linked are devoid of fact, and those they do provide are wildly unrelated.

For example the pacific solution applied specifically to the boats, and the opinion piece gives no boat figures at all.

The reality is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BoatArrivals.gif

Which clearly shows that the pacific solution worked to stop the boats and its removal started them. Even KRudd has been forced to eat crow and admit it.

As for the GFC, every country with a significant mining base fared far better than most in surviving the GFC. However, no one in the coalition has ever claimed that there should not be stimulus, the criticism of Labor is that it was poorly targeted, extremely wasteful, and most of the spending occurred well after the stimulus was no longer required.

As for your criticism of Andrew Bolt, his accuracy far exceeds most of the New Matilda or IA cretins you love to quote.

SOG,

Firstly the CSG issue was only ever a peripheral issue issue for BOF, and as far as CSG is concerned BOF has gone further than any other premier in AUS.

Considering that in Aus as in any other country, for more than a century, land owners have never owned the minerals below, and have always been required to give reasonable access to those wishing to exploit the minerals. This includes payment for access, and so far more than 90% of land holders have been more than happy with the compensation.

SM,

I must be a sucker for punishment.
Because I keep responding to your posts
despite their nonsense.

Try this link on for size:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/australias-problem-with-racism/

It does deal with "boat people."

Shadow Minister>> Considering that in Aus as in any other country, for more than a century, land owners have never owned the minerals below, and have always been required to give reasonable access to those wishing to exploit the minerals.<<

That’s exactly right SM, I should have expanded the point. The fracking process atop water tables and on some of the most arable land we have is the issue, not mining per say. O’Farrell made commitments to duty of care and then turned his back on them. I cannot overlook the lies, you can placate them by calling them peripheral commitments but he and his shadow resources minister met with anti CSG groups and promised them the known world, but they were lies.

sonofgloin,

Perhaps "peripheral commitments" are in the same category as "non-core promises".

After all, we are talking about Libs here,

Lexi,

Playing the racist card? run out of other ideas?

Yup I am racist against bludgers, human traffickers and economic refugees wanting to live off our taxes.

P,

Yup, a few years from the election, it is not always possible to complete everything promised, sometimes practicalities dictate an outcome that is not exactly what was promised, but meets the intention of the promise, such as BOF's CSG solution.

Core promises are Iron clad guarantees that cannot be broken without shredding one's credibility such as "there will be no carbon tax in a government I lead." and "There will be a surplus in 2013".

What ever I say about the man will upset some.
Some will claim I am biased.
Well yes I am, based on my understanding Tony Abbott, the man we are being sold today and the real /past one, I can not praise him, bias!
He once was just not a consideration for party leadership, he wanted it,his party thought that a joke.
His manifesto came out in the year before his rise.
He was the right man in the right place at the right time.
My party is quite often charged with moving away from its roots.
Liberals, maybe driven by their faithful pup Nationals, moved further right, Republican right right.
Climate change, the thought it is crap, rebutted by todays world wide facts, drove a Liberal Liberal out and a man who would, as he told independents, *do any thing but that* but may consider that! to be PM.
We the world, have moved on.
Republicans are desperate to retrieve their lost ground.
Abbott is living in a world that turned upside down as he reached for his prize.
Chanting negatives tell them any thing but nothing and lie,has him on thin ice.
We are a better country for that.

SM,

The issues are far more complex, but it will
continue to be difficult for you to see and
comprehend them because you insist on seeing
all discussions through a fixed ideological
viewfinder. It's sad really, because such
on-eyed bias is a triumph for negativity,
which is what Mr Abbott represents,
and this country has never needed a more
positive, open and compassionate approach to
important issues than now.

SM I understand, not easy for you to take.
Just a week ago you had the rails run and your only opponent was racing in the wrong direction, on three legs.
It has to be hard confronting Rudd and the truth in that short time.
Your party is a policy free zone.
Intent on negativity and random use of fear and loathing , it is stumped.
Well carry on old mate.
But watch the next few sets of polling and a tip!
Get you reasons ready, why Turnbull is no longer a twit.

Lexi, "this country has never needed a more positive, open and compassionate approach to important issues than now"

Just who do you reckon that might be? Please advise.

Because in another thread you have slammed PM Rudd and Labor for lacking compassion.

otb, Lex,

I'm not overly impressed with the bipartisan dog-whistling on refugees either.

But it doesn't alter the fact that Mr Abbott appears to be sounding a tad hollow now that people are actually giving him a shake.

The Opposition = a policy-free zone(apparently)

onthebeach,

No I didn't.

That's your take on things.
As I stated to you previously -
I can't be responsible for your perception problems.

I actually gave you the following link.
I suggest you read it:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/immigration-what-a-political-and-policy-mess-20130704-2pes8.html

Dear Poirot,

Political commentators keep pointing out to
us - "there are more votes in the "hard-edged"
approach then in showing compassion and tolerance
when it comes to asylum seekers". I too would
like to see both major parties put aside
their political differences and try to come up
with policies that would help solve this complex
issue. But I won't be holding my breath in this
election year.

Lexi,

This is what you said, "the Rudd government has decided that refugees are fair game". Here, so you remember,

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5889&page=30

Where is your evidence that Rudd and Labor (and the LNP for that matter) have lost compassion for refugees?

onthebeach,

Go back to my original statement regarding Bob Carr's
comments on page 15 of that particular discussion.
It may put things into perspective for you.
Also, look up the two links that I gave in another post
on that same page. It should clarify things for you.
You're barking up the wrong tree here.

Lexi,

As I responded to you in the other thread, you levelled a serious accusation against Kevin Rudd and his government: "the Rudd government has decided that refugees are fair game".

If you had any evidence for that allegation you would have provided it then or at least by now, instead of ducking and playing games.

No-one would seriously believe that the major parties have no compassion for refugees. I cannot believe that of Mr Rudd and his colleagues or Mr Abbott and his fellows. For someone who can wear her belt high at times you are very casual with what you say about others.

Fancy President Yudhoyono suggesting that it's necessary to have concrete cooperation on the boats.

He rebukes the Coalition's idea of unilateral action to "turn back the boats".

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/07/05/15/45/rescue-mission-as-boats-dominate-talks

Lexi,

I read the article, and SBY simply said that unilateral action should be avoided.

Remember that towing the Indonesian boats back to Indonesia's territorial limits does not need co operation from Indonesia.

SM yesterday your leader stood along side a shadow Minister who said Rudd was unfit to govern this country.
He made his claim based on the pink bats tragic events.
Both he and Abbott ignore the truth,the children over board and other tragic events make them culpable.
Much more so than a PM who was in government when shonky builders killed their workers.
In the end surely it is them who failed to train and protect the victims.
Abbott stands for that.
Blaming every one but never looking in a mirror.
If you can find other than the very start of a regional answer to the boats in SBY words I feel sorry for you.

As I mentioned before I am no great fan of towing the boats back, as it:
1) Ties up our naval vessels up, and
2) More importantly, it leaves us exposed -- just imagine if one of the boats we towed back sank,or someone fell overboard. In fact it would NOT even need to happened (no proof would be required) going on past events even "a report" "it was reported that" of such would be enough to send the ABC and SBS and a thousand human-rights lawyers into a frenzy (not to mention the UNHCR and a million NGOs)

But having said that, the issue of "regional co-operation" is a nonsense.Even while Rudd & SBY were mouthing sweet platitudes about "regional co-operation" there was an asylum scammer boat 80KMs of the Javan coast --80KMs off Java -- calling the Oz navy for help.
FFS! WHERE WAS THE REGIONAL CO-OPERATION FROM INDONESIA?

As I said before regional co-operation will amount to the other countries corralling illegals for a while before passing them on to OZ.

SPQR,

How else is Australia going to deliver boats back into Indonesian territory "without" the cooperation of Indonesia?

It's all very well to say they were mouthing platitudes, but the reality is that the Opposition's idea was merely surface blather. They had no agreement.

At least now there's an agreement to talk about the issue with the other big player in the drama.

It's called "diplomacy".

It is called a grudging return to Howard's policy that worked.

Indonesia is aware that Kevin13 has a time imperative set by the election and needs to re-brand to make it all seem to be his idea.
Kevin13 has delivered Indonesian diplomats a heavenly run, while hamstringing his own.

Indonesia has been given on a platter the upper hand in negotiating a better outcome for itself.

'Cooperation' will come with a big price tag. Millions more out of the pockets of Australian taxpayers and a loss of at least some decisionmaking capacity in who can come to Australia.

It would be infinitely better if Kevin13 could leave the negotiations for the government elected in a couple of months time.

Oppositions do not conduct diplomatic discussions with foreign governments.

SM,

This is a regional problem
and we do need the co-operation of Indonesia in helping
to try to solve it. It would be great if the current
political and policy mess could be straightened out
as a result of co-operation between all parties
concerned.

DIAC figures from 30 April 2013 record a total of 8,797
people in immigration detention with a record of 5,178
people in immigration detention centres with thousands
more in alternative places of detention.

More recent figures include 1,852 children are in closed
facilites. It has also kept over 50 refugees indefinitely
detained because of secret ASIO reports, many for more than
3 years. The "no advantage" policy has meant that processing
has deliberately stalled. There are now 20,000 people,
including thousands in community detention who have been
waiting since August last year to have claims assessed.

Poirot

<<How else is Australia going to deliver boats back into Indonesian territory "without" the cooperation of Indonesia?>>

I am still preparing my election ads, you caught me off guard.

Need we deliver them back --cut the incentive to come in the first place.

Here's a few ideas for starters

1) Stop govt funding of groups who's main purpose in life is to spruik for a more asylum scammers and run challenges to refugee legislation.
2) Tighten our selection/vetting processes.
3) Both Labor and Liberal should put the Greens stone motherless last in their preferencing.
4) Toughen sentencing for boat crew AND when they have served there lengthy sentences fly them home on Garunda (not Qantas) --that would scare the pants off them!

<<At least now there's an agreement to talk about the issue with the other big player in the drama>>

I'm not sure what sort of sport they play way over in the boondocks (aka WA) but here in the civilized zone we play rugby league.
And I can tell you that if I was playing a match I would not want a <<player>> in my team who played the way Indonesia does.
Heck! he'd be hogging the ball till the last moment them passing it to you when you're about to be crunched -- in RL they call it a hospital pass. That's what player-Indonesia has been doing to Oz , giving us hospital passes--then shrugging its/their shoulders and "saying what else could I do?"

Please ignore the above post-

KarlX,

Why ignore?

I was referring to the Coalition's big ticket item of "turning back the boats"".

(Btw, WA has has some of the best infrastructure in the country. We have governments - even Liberal one's - who look to the future in that regard)

So far Rudd13 has given Indonesia two C130 Helcules military aircraft and two patrol boats.

Heaps better than a civilian Cessna and the boats used by our own Water Police.

It is understood that Rudd13 is also allowing Indonesia to buy Australian cattle stations. He will fund training of Indonesians in in Indonesia in raising and managing cattle.

Will the travel of Indonesians in Australia without visas be the next concession of the table?

Indonesia is aware that Kevin13 has a time imperative set by the election and needs to re-brand to make it all seem to be his idea.
Kevin13 has delivered Indonesian diplomats a heavenly run, while hamstringing his own.

Indonesia has been given on a platter the upper hand in negotiating a better outcome for itself.

'Cooperation' is coming with a big price tag. Millions more out of the pockets of Australian taxpayers and a loss of at least some decision making capacity in who can come to Australia.

It would be infinitely better if Kevin13 could leave the negotiations for the government elected in a couple of months time. Better still, he should call an election at the earliest.

Kevin Rudd has certainly proven himself to
be a capable diplomat as his recent visit to
Indonesia has shown. He managed to discuss a
wide variety of issues, amongst which were
talks on the regional problem of asylum seekers.
Things may not change overnight - but this is
about building foundations that can be built on
in the future.

The establishment of the Indonesia - Australia Red
Meat and Cattle Forum - a $60 million 10 year initiative
to boost investment in the Red Meat agri business sector
in Indonesia will be good for the Australian beef industry,
good for Indonesian investments and good also for consumers.
The NT's Cattlemen's Association welcomed the support for
increased live export quotas.

Not bad for a man who's only been back in power for a week.

<<Kevin Rudd has certainly proven himself>>

I'm sure if he is handing our $60,000,000 cheques he'll have half the PMs in Asian wanting to join his talkfests.

Dear SPQR,

Empty rhetoric doesn't achieve anything and neither do
Slogans that sound good

<<Empty rhetoric doesn't achieve anything and neither do
Slogans that sound good>>

What are you talking about Lexi. It worked well in 2007 [the 2020 change Australia summit, the signing-up to Kyoto and saving the world initiative , the no kid will be living in computer poverty promise]

Why on Earth would it NOT work again?
After all he's already fooled you with it, AGAIN!

SPQR what Lexi said.
As I said in another thread Abbott is a first class teller of lies.
Nothing he says, ever can be believed.
It must come as a shock to you, road kill Labor alive and thriving again.
But live with it you must as Kev rises Tony sinks.

Belly,

I know you think you've got me pegged as a diehard LNP supported --but it aint so.

I am no great fan of Abbott. And I'm not convinced he is as committed to stopping boats as he is to getting the PMs position.

However, I believe as a party --at least in the present age --the LNP are more committed to border control than is the ALP

There are too many in the ALP who see caving in to asylum scammers as another one of our great moral causes/obligations and are only half-hearted in their approach to border control.

Dear SPQR,

My family lives in rural Australia and
there is no way on this planet that they
are voting for the Coalition while Mr Abbott
is leader. They simply don't trust the man
who puts his personal ambition ahead of the
country and will do anything short of "sell his
a*se," (as Tony Windsor confirmed) to be PM.

As I stated many times previously Mr Abbott has
to do more than just keep breathing to become
the next leader. It is not enough to have the
job presented on a plate. Australians need
to know precisely why they should vote for him
and the Coalition. This requires work, not
glad-handing, nor empty rhetoric.

If Mr Abbott believes he leads the next government-in-
waiting it is incumbent on him to enunciate the policies
and vision that drives them.

Again, I repeat that clearly, there has been huge
advantages while in Opposition in offering a small
target to Labor, but to carry that strategy any
further now is to treat voters with contempt.

Throwing out a government is not the same as electing
an opposition. The electorate, like nature, abhors a
vacuum. Without detailed policies it cannot properly
assess who deserves to govern.

I can't wait for a public debate between the two
men - Rudd and Abbott so that voters can see for
themselves who they want to lead us and represent us
on the world stage. Abbott would have floundered in
Indonesia. For heaven's sake the man can barely speak.

Yep, Abbott needs to present actual *POLICIES*, that are fully costed.

He did that at the last election, but, only 1 week before the actual election. It was proven to be a shonky costing job, and was the main reason he lost the election for the Coalition.

He NEVER learns. Abbott will do the same thing this election. The final, costed policies will be presented to the public as close to the election that they can get away with, in an attempt to evade proper and complete scrutiny.

The Aussie public is not totally stupid, and will see through this. it will cost Abbott the election again .... just like last time. Abbott was a loser, and he'll remain a loser. He's the Coalition's main weak link, amongst a large group of weak links like the 2 Bishops, Pyne, Hockey, any member of the Nats, that crazy woman who lost personal control in her speech last week etc etc etc. They are a bunch of aggressive and angry amateurs, who have had the biggest dummy spit ever since they lost the last election.

SPQR Abbott unfortunately has taken his party to new lows.
Not all, not most but too many tin pot screamers and not enough thought.
You may think I am mad or just bad.
But have no doubt, a thinking Australia may bring your party back to Turnbull.
That would make this a knife edge election.
Like Rudd he could clean out the cob webs and put popular policy,s back.
Rudd is a populist, but so was Howard it takes one to be elected.
I say what I think.
Abbott is the wrong leader.
Both sides need to very carefully watch what they give birth to in this country in relation to the way we think of our near neighbors.
And we need Abbott,s thoughts of stopping the boats like a hole in the head.

Lexi,

The vast majority of country electorates go to the liberals or nationals. Virtually none vote in labor or the wack job greens.

Pjack,

Labor has yet to introduce a policy that works or meets budget, or even introduce a budget that is not a work of fiction. The existing budget, upon which Labor's fantasies are based has many assumptions that even treasury describe as "optimistic".

Swan and Gillard blatantly lied when they claimed there would be a budget surplus in 2013. They didn't even try.

Belly,

A few polls which show that Labor is headed for a lesser defeat and suddenly you are masters of the universe?

What did KRudd get from Indonesia? Diddly Squat. Promises of further meetings? Regional action plans? That sort of bureaucratic idiocy is what KRudd is great at, and is why Australia is in the self induced trouble we see now.

Turning back the boats will help break the Human trafficking model that Labor built up. Tax payer funded meetings won't.

SM,

Explain to us how this "turning back to boats" is actually going to be implemented, especially without Indonesian cooperation?

(And that is something that requires serious dialogue between our two nations)

I mean merely shouting it from the media rooftops (or spinning it in a "pamphlet") is one thing.

Having a concrete blueprint, replete with detail is another.

Poirot, "Having a concrete blueprint, replete with detail is another"

That Kevin Rudd cannot produce either.

So far all that Kevin13 has been able to do is create more jet trails with the luxury VIP Boeing 737-700, which fortunately must not produce the 'poisonous CO2' now that Julia's carbon (dioxide) tax is fleecing Australians to support the UN.

Meanwhile, the Indonesians have managed to relieve Kevin13 of a cool $60 million and counting, with another talk fest being the only outcome. Just another conference and another excuse for Kevin13 to wear a gay Batik shirt and promote Kevin13 for a UN job one day.

onthebeach,

How long has Kevin Rudd been back at the helm?

Oh, would that be a week and a half?

In that time, he's set up dialogue with the leader of the other country to which this issue pertains in our region.

Geez, what a slacker.....

Poirot,

Labor has been in two terms.

Kevin13 merely has to restore wht he destroyed. Kevin07's nano-second decision to remove what Howard had in place has cost $$billions of taxpayers' money, delivered an ideal business model to criminal gangs to set up in people smuggleing and has drowned children put on boats by economic migrants seeking family reunification and to live forever on "Wonderful Centrelink" (that slip by one such referring to "Wonderful Centrelink" on Jenny Brockie's Insight program on SBS).

Shadow Minister I think it is time to take you on my lap and teach you about me.
I took the sword to my party for a few reasons.
Some one had to do it, it needed doing.
I saw our future as bleak, Australia's I mean.
Rudd has seen to the above, we no longer confront a dreadful event in our country,s history/future *and Abbott Government*
I understand bloke, it hurts, even falling leaves in Autumn could be, with some success, blamed on Labor while Gillard lead.
You do know,come on my mate you know?
Abbott is no better a leader than her.
Just a tip,start finding reasons for a switch to Turnbull, you will need to rebut your past words.

Lexi, Belly,

Did you know that Mr Abbott "was forced to repay taxpayers nearly $9,400 after receiving travel expenses to promote his book "Battlelines" in 2009".

http://nofibs.com.au/2013/07/06/exclusive-abbott-forced-to-repay-taxpayers-9400-he-charged-taxpayers-to-promote-his-book/

This information was garnered through an FOI request

It puts Slipper's $900 dollar travel allowance debacle in a new light...he's been charged on that one.

I expect you won't know about it because MSM seems to think anything dodgy pertaining to Tony is a news-free zone.

I note that Juliar did not have the decency to pay back the $140 000 for using the government jet to travel to a party fundraiser. She simply apologized and the taxpayer had to suck it up.

Thaks for that, Shadow Minister,

Here's more detail on Glenn Milne's investigation.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/35544.html

Now you can put up the detail on the one you just mentioned.

SM,

Here's the story of Prime Minister John Howard and his commutes between work and "home".

Unfortunately home was in Sydney and work was in Canberra...so it took lots of jet trips to take him to and fro (being the PM and all that)

"....RAAF VIP jet taxi service between Sydney and Canberra..."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/archive/news/pms-jet-a-taxi-service/story-e6frf7l6-1111114449873

And the taxpayer had to suck it up......

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/gillard-called-to-pay-for-fundraiser-flight-to-brisbane/story-e6frg6nf-1225886408456

Howard was using the plane to commute between his home town and Canberra, which at the time he was entitled to. Juliar was not entitled to use the jet for private purposes, She has yet to repay this.

Yes, SM,

If you're going to criticise Gillard, that's okay.

It's interesting to see how you huff and puff about that, yet excuse Mr Howard and his "arrangement" in going through taxpayer dollars at a rate of knots, simply because "he" decided to live at Kirribilli instead of the Lodge.

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for that.

But it's not surprising.

There's so much more we don't know about
that man that will one day come out.
David Marr has made a good start.
If you haven't seen it, get hold of a copy
of "QE (Quarterly Essay)- Political Animal -
The Making of Tony Abbott. It's interesting
reading.

There's also a book entitled, "The Wisdom of
The Abbott." A Collection of Tony Abbott
quotes. Mr Abbott speaks - on climate change:
"absolute crap."
On Honesty: "One man's lie is another man's
judgement call."
On Poverty: "we just can't stop people from
being homeless if that's their choice."

And there's more ...

As for spending money? The following link may be
of interest:

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/former-pms-cost-nearly-1m-year/1394043/

Our former Prime Ministers cost us a fortune, and of course
John Howard tops the list with $300,000 for the 2010-11
financial year. (and that's not even
counting his generous pension).

Close observers of politics will have no trouble remembering Tony Abbott used government travel to sell his book.
Charged with that by Labor he denied it.
Held on to his position strongly.
As the election nears he just paid, every cent, for his flights to sell him self and his book.
That is what he stands for, untrustworthy and that is the man.

Story picked up by MSM....

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbott-forced-to-repay-travel-expenses-20130707-2pk9b.html

Yes that is the one I quoted.
However I need to correct my self, I got it wrong in part.
Tony paid it quietly after saying he had no need to, 2 years ago.
Hope he stays fit.
He will soon have more time to peddle his push bike.
I would not like to be one of his advisers who told him the negativity thing always works.

Lexi, Belly,

"If Slipper is guilty, what about Abbott?"

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/if-slipper-is-guilty-then-what-about-abbott/

Dear Poirot,

I think this is only the tip of the iceberg
to what the man's really done.
He like his mentor John Howard deserve to
end up on the dung heap of history.
Disgusting!

Australian prime minister Kevin Rudd reduced a flight attendant to tears with a torrent of abuse.
Mr Rudd, known for his swearing rants, lost his temper when the 23-year-old said his special meal, with no red meat, was not available.
The attendant burst into tears and reported the incident to senior crew on the Royal Australian Air Force Boeing 737 flight from Papua New Guinea.

What a revolting abusive person.

Kevin Rudd deserves to be flushed into the cesspit of history.

Yeah, well, Lexi.

He's still denying he wrongly claimed travel expenses.

"No, I did not." (when asked the question today)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/08/tony-abbott-book-tour-expenses?CMP=twt_gu

So, after 266 posts we have not had even one person who can supply even one fully and properly costed Abbott policy. That gives a pretty clear idea of what Abbott "really" stands for ..... lies, deceit, manipulation and endless political and personal spin, spin, spin,spin, spin and more spin. NO fully and properly costed policies, just personal abuse, and no no no no no no, and spin.

Says it all.

Here is the latest Morgan Poll.

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/morgan-poll-july-8-2013-201307080647

Two party preferred:

Labor - 54.5% (up 3%)

L-NP - 45.5% (down 3%)

Time for Gonzo to go and Malcolm to gird his loins, a new game seems on.

I knew a pollie called Phony Tony
Cred as thin as a stick of macaroni
See him duck a point with his blue tie on
So dishonest just treats us like drones

Polls don't love him but he loves he,
So we're not as happy as we could be.
'til Malcolm's costing policies'n'apple trees....

Apologies to Larry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdmuqYCf5Ik
Red wine mid-week does this to me. C'mon Shad, join in and dance!

I see PJack is out of the box again

Sorry, guys.

Watched Mr Abbott on 7:30 tonight - and it was the same old vacuous performance as usual.

When asked how he'd turn back the boats without Indonesian cooperation, he of course was light on detail and heavy on slogan.

(Apparently) "Howard did it"..."Howard did it"...Howard did it".....explains how Abbott is going to do it.

There was "nothing" in his performance that really clarified anything.

He seems to have an extreme problem mouthing anything but slogan and general political platitude.

I'm beginning to suspect that if someone stuck a pin in him - he'd pop!

Poirot, and the really interesting thing about Abbott's "Howard did it" slogan (designed to con the Aussie public) is that Howard's policy turned back just 4, yes that's right, only *FOUR*, boats. Abbott never, ever mentions that.

So, turning back the boats was NOT the reason why hundreds and hundreds of boats did not arrive during that specific period.

I challenge Abbott fans to leave the bias in the bucket at the door.
Look at his polling post Rudd,s return.
Then to help revive you read any of our once Australian, now American Rupert Murdock.
Remember as you revive you have just read the criminal lies of a criminals toys, *the Murdock press*
Touch the reality again, Turnbull.
He would make it very hard for the ALP, Abbott increasingly out of touch, unlike Howard was, with the battlers.
Mr Abbott stands as surely as Labor does, for a class of people, just above middle class.
He takes orders and acts as he is told.
Those who write our history will not be kind to this little man and even less to his followers who blind them selves to the deliberate and miss leading things he says, on any subject.

Here's what Malcolm Turnbull seems to think will do the trick to get the Libs message out there:

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1787048/Rudd-can-debate-himself-Turnbull-says

It's interesting that Abbott and he are waffling about it not being a campaign "yet" because we have no definite election date.

What was all that sugary US-style hoopla the other week?

Oh, yeah, it was Abbott's "campaign" launch.

SM,

You list Kevin Rudd's "fault" - so it's only fair
to give you something of Tony Abbott's:

http://theaimn.com/2013/05/01/may-day-may-day/

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/poilitics/tony-abbott-and-his-slushy-question-of-character/

http://theaimn.com/2013/01/19/never

I really don't understand why Labor is so accepting of Abbott's misdemeanour and does not refer his rorting to the AFP as the Libs did on Slipper (who they once lauded and protected when he was their man)
http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/tony-abbotts-battlerorts-scandal-goes-mainstream/

Turnbull controlled centre-stage on QandA last night. Abbott can't even do that when he's the only one on stage, which is why he refuses to go on the 7.30 Report where he melts like ice-cream in the sun when challenged.

Australia needs leaders capable of articulating alternative policies we can vote on. We need public debate between them which, despite Malcolm's claims, does not happen in our parliament as it should.

Democracy in Australia needs saviour from mantra, spin and populism and the media could/should be a great aid in achieving it. Unfortunately, as Conroy found out, media moguls insist on the right to forge their own "truth" without accountability.

It's your choice folks:

One wears glasses and a smile,
The other a sneer on his dial
One can talk and enunciate
The other's a bruiser who won't debate
We need a leader to lead us through
But the question is?
Who, Who, Whoooo?

A public debate between the two would help.

Will wonders never cease?

ABC now covering story...albeit from Abbott's angle.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-09/tony-abbott-says-labor-dirt-campaign-behind-questions-over-expe/4808492

(All you needed to do, Tony, was correct the public record)