Aboriginal woman are eighty times more likely to be abused than other Australians

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/violence-against-aboriginal-women-80-times-worse/story-fnhnv0wb-1226661209335

why no outrage? Probably because even people pointing this fact out they are likley to be labelled racist. Historical revisionist (black arm band view) have a lot to answer for. Just as Labour's compassion for boat people have been exposed (ending in 1000 plus drownings), so has those who blame the whites for violent actions of tribes and individuals.

Good point, Runner. You may enjoy a recent publication by Stephanie Jarrett - 'Liberating Aboriginal People from Violence', in which she goes into devastating detail about male-on-female violence in remote settlements.

Over the past ten years, there have been around 120-130 murders in the NT, of which more than 100 would have been committed by Aboriginal men against Aboriginal women, some in the most horrific circumstances involving star-pickets, bricks, tree-branches, rocks, bottles, knives, etc.

Frankly, I don't see the slightest positive coming out of remote settlements, not now, not in the near future, maybe not ever. The quicker women can get away from them, the better off they will be.

The time is long overdue when we have to ask: "Is 'community' part of the problem, rather than part of the 'solution' ?"

Joe

'The time is long overdue when we have to ask: "Is 'community' part of the problem, rather than part of the 'solution' ?" '

Thanks Joe. I must admit I agonise over this one. I have visited and know many in communities in WA. As you know their are enormous integration problems when tribal people move into 'towns'. The thing that disturbs me is that many of the men and woman accept violence as a way of life.

True enough Runner,there's a force field of ideology surrounding the facts of the matter, it'd be fine for a Feminist to catalogue these facts and speak about them in public but a conservative wouldn't get away with it even though he might be proposing a solution.
There was another similarly themed article in the age a few weeks ago, about how older White women in the Territory are effectively surrogate mothers for numbers of Aboriginal children. One woman said that because the Aboriginal Grannies that she went to school with in the fifties are now either dead or too worn out to care for their grandkids they are appearing on her doorstep. This woman was very critical of the Gen X and Y Aboriginals and the system they were raised in, she said that when she was young the aboriginals were expected to do everything the White kids did at school and for the most part they succeeded.
Neo Liberal Multiculturalism is a brutal system, it's not just damaging Aboriginals but Whites and every other ethnic group, we already have a lot of very hard, very callous young people coming into adulthood and in outlook and temperament they're not like the preceding generations at all.

Jay,

Can you locate that Age article ? I'm amazed that the Age would run something like that.

Gen X and Gen Y remote Aboriginal people, dumping their kids onto their grannies - I hadn't considered that. Probably standing over their grannies for grog and ganja money at the same time, saves two trips.

I was just talking today to a lovely young student and when I mentioned about the numbers of young mothers (40) at one settlement dying in childbirth back in the forties and fifties, leaving 140 school-age children between them, she immediately and rather glibly threw in that the grannies and uncles and aunties would have looked after them. Maybe, but as you say, they were already tired and overloaded, and what is amazing is how FEW of those children were ever taken into care.

My poor old father-in-law lost his first wife in the mid-forties, and along with his two brothers-in-law-in-laws - the three men had married three sisters who had all died very young - they had fifteen children between them to somehow look after. They were a bit useless so he had to look after all of them and from the school records, you can see when he takes them all out of the school so he can go fruit-picking - then brings all of them back again a couple of months later. A real battler - none of his own kids were ever put into care of any sort, a good man, constantly working, gone now forty years.

Life was hard for Aboriginal people in the earlier part of the twentieth century, rural work, seasonal work, poor wages, the constant threat of economic destitution. Families fell apart, blokes shot through, mothers had break-downs under the pressure of no money and endless pregnancies. Mothers died, fathers died. Nobody has to posit any b@stards in white coats deliberately taking children away - circumstances were bad enough, for Christ sake, and for what ? What a stupid bloody interpretation.

Joe

runner,
It is about time the aboriginal communities faced this fact and took it on themselves to do something.

I read the 'Little children are angels' report, which motivated Mal Brough to start the NT Intervention. It is beyond me how a 3 year old child can have VD. I was disappointed when Brough was not re-elected and I hope he makes it this time. He seemed to me to have the strength to make the intervention work and I hoped it would be expanded into other states.

I have not heard lately how things are in the NT now, relative to kids abuse and education but one hopes it is improving.

Abuse of women and kids must be of the utmost importance.

The terrible neglect of successive NT governments in funding rehabilitation services for prisoners has been an absolute disgrace and continues to offer only token resistance to breaking the cycle of violence that afflicts the territory.

Charitably referred to as 'spartan' the NT rehabilitation services in many cases just did not exist. In 2003 there were strong prison based violent offenders programs in states such as NSW which funded up to 800 hours per offender and WA where it was 450 hours. The NT had none.

An assessment done by CAYA Management Consulting International Inc for the NT correctional services in 2003 found “The report correctly identifies significant gaps in rehabilitation opportunities provided to prisoners within the Northern Territory, and makes recommendations that aim to enhance the range, scope, and efficacy of rehabilitation options available to prisoners.”

Yet by 2009 the NT still had the lowest spend per offender on corrective services, $164 per day, of all the states and territories. Compare that to $349 per day in the ACT.

The Australia institute of Criminology tells us that the prison based drug and alcohol program in the NT is low intensity at 24 hours of 'psycho-educational' services per offender. Compare again to the high intensity of 100 hours of therapeutic intervention for prisoners in WA. Additional WA has another program called “Indigenous Men Managing Anger and Substance Use (IMMASU) which is another 55 hours of intervention.

While the NT's domestic violence program of 54 hours per offender is about the average for jurisdictions around the country they were still working under old paradigms. “The moderate to high-intensity (75–100 hours) domestic violence programs have moved away from feminist theoretical orientations and towards social learning and behaviourist perspectives; more in line with theories associated with the management of other types of violence and aggression.”

There is arguably not another area in Australia where the need for adequate rehabilitation services is so dire yet the NT remains the least funded. This is a wrong that certainly deserves our outrage.

csteele,

'The terrible neglect of successive NT governments in funding rehabilitation services for prisoners has been an absolute disgrace and continues to offer only token resistance to breaking the cycle of violence that afflicts the territory. '

I know you are unlikely to accept it csteele but rehabilitation services simply have little or no affect on indigeneous prisoners. I know many who have gone through numerous programs to no affect. Usually someone rehashes an idea, launches it enthusiactly with Government funding and then it dies out with next to no success and sometimes doing more harm.

Thank you, Runner.

C. Steele, you write about rehabilitation. Rehabilitation ?! For Christ's sake, we're talking about thugs and rapists and murderers, and you go on about fcuking rehabilitation ? What about PREVENTION ? How to stop men - after all, that's who the 'rehabilitatees' would be - from committing such violent acts against their beloveds, and their nieces and nephews ? Yeah, it takes a community to raise a child, all right - and one ghastly act to destroy a community too.

But anybody who has ever worked with such people, whether in alcohol or drug or family-violence or child-abuse programs - knows that nothing so far has worked effectively. If an Abbott government is elected in the next couple of months, guess what programs are going to be axed ? And thank Christ - then we can get down to business, women and kids might gain some breathing space.

I suspect that there will be a huge crop of social workers etc, who will be looking for work after Abbott gets in.

Wonderful. Then we might start to get somewhere.

Joe

I agree with you Joe.
There needs to be immediate action taken to remove the offending men and women from their homes and keep them out.

If the indigenous kids aren't brought up with violence, then maybe it won't keep repeating itself with every generation.

Forget the 'stolen generation' and start a 'new generation'.

And I don't mean that e should only do this with Aboriginal Australians, but with all violent homes.

Dear runner,

So let me get this straight. You think we shouldn't be funding rehabilitation services because they 'simply have little or no affect on indigeneous(sic) prisoners'. What a bloody minded and unchristian thing to say. What empirical evidence do you have to make such an assertion? I give facts and figures and you think claiming “I know many who have gone through numerous programs to no affect” will cut it? Not a hope laddie.

How about this, why don't we try and fund rehabilitative services to NT indigenous prisoners at least to the levels the rest of us enjoy in our southern states and see if that has an effect.

Actually I'm firmly convinced you are purely and simply just bitter about any money being spent at all.

Dear Loudmouth,

I'm sick and tired of the old 'knows that nothing so far has worked effectively' being trotted out every time. Rehabilitation services in the NT have always been markedly behind those of all the other jurisdictions in this country and the results speak for themselves. As adequately funding it hasn't been tried at all in the NT that surely would be a marvellous place to start one would have thought.

Rehabilitation and behavioural intervention programs do have a very good track record when done properly. It isn't being done so in the NT. The need is demonstrably enormous yet you and runner want none of it. Rough justice or nothing huh?

I agree runner but too think the shame has been in many threads here some I started.
Loudmouth has a thread started that is about this problem in part.
He, for that matter me too, understand some self reliance is called for.
And far less interference by the soft heads and hearts, put brains there too, of do gooder,s.
Why do we call those failures do gooder,s?
The very last thing they are is do gooder,s.

A point I believe in totally, men who bash women, ill treat them, no matter what race, are unsure of their manhood and need help.

Belly,

I think I can be of assistance here:

The reason the usual suspects call people "do-gooders" is because it's a convenient hackneyed term employed as a soft glove slap of an insult to fair-minded people, by those who are too vacuous to reach around inside their cranium for cogent argument.

'What a bloody minded and unchristian thing to say

csteele have you lefties no shame. We see the old 'we are compassionate ones' and you are mean uncovered clearly in the drowing of over 1000 people due to 'compassionate ' policies.
where r the facts and figures you assert as to the rehabilated violent ones from the communities. You are speaking rhetoric as usual.

Why do these important topics end up reverting to kindergarten sandpit commentary. You know the "I'm better than you" "No you're not, I'm better than you", "No, pick me, pick me I am the more compassionate one", "You're just a do-gooder who does no good" etc etc. Good grief.

There would not be one person on OLO that would not argue there is a problem in Indigenous communities. The difficulty is in finding a solution that involves those communities and one that works and isn't just a government showpiece.

There is much being done by some amazing women in those communities already who want to improve the conditions for men and women and stop the abuses.

Pelican

'There is much being done by some amazing women in those communities already who want to improve the conditions for men and women and stop the abuses. '

There are numerous men and woman who 'want to improve conditions'. I am sure there are many that weep over the situation. The problem is not solved by wanting better conditions. I am sure we all want that and have done for a long time. Maybe we just fail to ask the right questions because we don't like the answers.

Okay folks this is directly from the link in runners original post;

“Dr Bath blamed alcohol and drug abuse, overcrowding and "consistent unemployment". "Alcohol is the worst factor by a country mile," he said. "Between 60 and 70 per cent of violence is directly related to alcohol.”

So what had been achieved by decent 'do-gooders' policy in places like Alice Springs?

The then Labour Government introduced the Liquor Supply Plan in October 2006. The sales of cask wine, a principal method of delivery of alcohol to certain sections of the community immediately started falling from a 135,267 litres of pure alcohol content in 2006 to 23,274 litres in 2009.
http://www.nt.gov.au/justice/policycoord/documents/statistics/wholesale_pac_supply_2002to2009.pdf

Take a look at those figures again.

John Paterson writing on behalf of the Aboriginal Medical Services Alliance Northern Territory says that;

“The decline in alcohol consumption in Alice has seen projected admissions for assault to Alice Springs Hospital for Aboriginal women reduced by about 130 per year.”

It has also assisted in a dramatic effect on indigenous life expectancy rates with the NT average annual change in indigenous death rates per 100,000 from a 2006 baseline to 2011 of -57.6, the best in Australia.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/05/indigenous-reform-report-document

Over 100 communities in the NT have self imposed bans on alcohol. This has resulted in the prevalence of alcohol consumption by indigenous adults in remote communities being 25% less than indigenous adults in non-remote areas.
http://digitallibrary.health.nt.gov.au/prodjspui/bitstream/10137/515/1/Alcohol%20use%20in%20the%20Northern%20Territory.pdf

The NT's CLP government has stripped some of these initiatives away including the banned drinker register which was so successful.

The lock em' up mentality that has prevailed for so long in the NT has seen it become arguably the highest place in the world for incarcerating Indigenous peoples. That should be our to our shame. To those here wanting more of the same and rubbing their hands together in anticipation of Abbott withdrawing proven initiatives need to have a good look at themselves

I agree totally with Runner and Loudmouth on this.
There comes a time that if you can’t or won’t help yourself even by taking some small positive step, then nobody can help you.

These men have to know that what they are doing is wrong, belting their wives with star pickets for heaven sake and giving sexually transmitted diseases to small children. These aren’t one off cases.

The fact is anytime they like, they can come down to a regional city (the amount they spend on grog would pay for the fare and accommodation). Send their children to school, go to
night school or get a job even as a trolley boy and they would soon be middle class Australians.

It’s the lack of will to change and the excuse to laze about, under the guise of victim that is the problem now.

We see big strong aboriginal lads, riding around on bikes and hanging around the local river on any working day of the week, all the time, not in the Northern Territory but here in this big regional city. Meanwhile, African lads and men have got jobs as trolley boys at the local shopping centres.

The horrific circumstances they come from, haven’t caused them to lay down and cry victim, can’t work or look after my family. Are the Northern Territory Aboriginals(not the ones at UNI or who do work, much respect to them)going to still be refusing to help themselves
in 50years or 100years time?
still going to be doing that in 50years, 100years, when will they
give their kids and families a better shot at life.

Joe,
Growing them up, The Age June 1 2013

http://www.theage.com.au/national/growing-them-up-20130527-2n613.html

Thank you, Jay - this is an eye-opener.

And yet there are smug idiots who oppose inter-group fostering. Surely the child should come first ? Aren't little children sacred ? So surely, unambiguously, culture comes second. If same-group fostering is possible, well and good, but not at the cost of a child's well-being.

Cheers,

Joe

Here's looking at things from a different perspective:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4055530.html

Thanks Lexi

Paints a very different picture than the one runner is trying to deceive us with.

The "outrage" is that people like runner feel they have some right to condemn and proscribe for aboriginal communities while ignoring the filth that goes on in their own tribes.

What was that about motes in eyes runner?

Lexi, Walter Shaw's article tells it like it is. Unfortunate both the ALP and Coalition have failed the Aboriginal people. One problem is indigenous people do not have political representation in Australia and the mainstream parties do not see Aboriginals as a priority. I am totally in favor of self determination, but without political representation that is difficult to achieve. I support the New Zealand model of providing exclusively, indigenous seats in parliament, the Maori have 7 seats and from firsthand experience the system works well over there and I see no reason such a system could not work in Australia.

we know you can't accept democracy Paul but have you not seen what the Labour quota for woman has produced. The most incompetent, immoral Government this country has seen.

Why thank you, runner.

Are you intimating that more women in those roles equates to "incompetence and immorality"?

ie - Woman = incompetence and immorality.

Please correct me if I've misread your intention.

false compassion leading to over 1000 drownings should even be immoral even by your standards Poirot. Although you will probably find a way to 'rationalise ' it.

runner,

I realise that you have difficulty coming up with your own outrages.

So mouthing the anti-refugee propaganda employing false compassion regarding the drownings is the best you can come up with.

I don't believe you give a toss what happens to those people at all.

You've just found a "seemingly compassionate" hook to hang up your "we don't want 'em here" rhetoric on.

Pull the other one.

Poirot,
The most charitable assessment of Labor's affirmative action program would be to say that it empowers women who are just as corrupt or incompetent as the Labor men but at the end of the day the problem isn't gender it's the Neo Liberal and Fabian Socialist value systems.
We on the radical right understand that people like you are basically decent folk who just want to help "Those less fortunate" but taking responsibility for the way another etnic group's lives are to be lived is a backward step.
Normally when White people try to take over responsibility for the lives of non Whites and make special laws to govern them we call them out as White Supremacists. If you like I can provide you with a link to a very long lecture on the origins of White Supremacism delivered by a short Communist who speaks very quickly, it might be worth your while watching it, it certainly changed my views on White supremacy, Racism and Whiteness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gq77rOuZck

Oh yes, Jay...not to mention "Westerners" like to stomp around the globe disrupting and destabilising other ethnic peoples through military or economic interventions.

We take "responsibility" for the way ethnic people live their lives ad nauseam.....but we prefer to do it when they are safely tucked up in their home countries.

Strange how we act surprised and reassert our supremacy when things fall in a hole and those people start heading our way from distant shores.

Poirot,
Maybe perception of the issues are gendered after all,from what I've observed women tend to approach righting a perceived wrong by trying to revise and repair the past whereas men will try to take control over the future and ignore the past, I'd say that thesis is borne out in your comments and exemplified by yesterday's piece by Lyn Bender.
The ramifications of that thesis for political parties should be obvious, a 50/50 gender split in parliament would render the institution powerless to act on any bill and no progress would be possible on the material situation of Indigenous people.

Jay,

It's not a matter of "repairing the past".

It's about continuing to do the same things in the present day that we've always done.

....and trying to pretend it's all in the past.

runner
How would you solve the problem?

Runner are you of the opinion that New Zealand is undemocratic because Maori have representation in parliament?
"We on the radical right understand that people like you are basically decent folk" Unfortunate we on the "radical left" cannot return the complement.

Hi Paul,

Interesting that you raise that issue, because my answer would be "Yes, to the extent that one ethnic group has been allocated some rights and privileges that no the group has, New Zealand has become that much less democratic."

That would be an empirical observation, not a value judgment: if people from one group have rights that others can never have, what else would you call it, good or bad, right or wrong ? New Zealand, has, to that extent, become less democratic, no two ways about it.

Of course, what is even more worrying is that only the elites within the iwis and hapus and whanaus are going to be able to exercise those extra powers. Ordinary Maori, especially urban Maori, as Alan Duff has said repeatedly, are not going to get a look-in, they will stay disenfranchised, i.e. less enfranchised than non-Maori.

'Equality' means equality for all, or it should. Equal rights, equal obligations, equal opportunity. It's one reason why I have no interest in 'recognising' Indigenous people in the Constitution. The Aboriginal Flag is an official Australian Flag, it can be flown everywhere in Australia, and is immediately 'recogniseable' wherever and whenever it's flown.

These 'brilliant' initiatives seem to benefit only the elites - more Committees, more plum jobs, more overseas Conferences and yet more committees. And so often, it is the same names, of talent-less hacks who seem to get put onto those committees, clueless people who know the right mantras but have not a single bright idea between them. Except yet more fancy ways to 'recognise' Indigenous people, basically themselves, who can, over time, put each others' names forward for AMs or AOs for some obscure service to 'their communities'.

Genuine and enriched equality for all, and be done with it.

Joe

Paul1405

how well do you thin ATSIC worked? Self determination would lead to more corruption, more tribalism and worse outcomes for the woman being bashed and the kids being neglected.

Poirot,
Fair enough, I can see your point but from a practical point of view there aren't many options, either "we" leave "them" alone, or "we" supervise "their" lives and physically prevent "them" from self harming or harming others.
What I'm saying is that Whites taking physical control over the lives of Aborignes is a bad idea for all concerned since it simply reverts to the old system of White supremacy and White supremacy, simply put is a rotten deal for Whites too, that's why there was so little resistance to the disestablishment of those old systems.
You see the problem here? The ideal solution would be one that delivered mutual benefits to both Whites and Indigenous but if "we" don't get anything out of the deal because "they", the addicts, the damaged and the indolent have nothing to offer why should "we" give it a second thought? As I said, in that situation no matter how many billions you throw at it and however good the intentions behind it all you're doing is trying to patch up the past, to right wrongs that stretch back beyond living memory.
Why do you think there's so little enthusiasm among Whites for engagement with indigenous people? And for Pete's sake don't say "Racism", I couldn't bear another one of "those" conversations.

Rehabilitation and behavioural intervention programs do have a very good track record when done properly.
csteele,
Can you provide links which state good track records for compensation for the victims of crime programs? Not only due to indigenous offenders but all.

Lexi et al any chance of helping csteele with this one ?
Thanks

individual

u do have a sense of humour.