I'm taking bets on when Julia will step down or be stabbed in the back?
My guess is by the end of this week.

Don't be so sure. She won the previous challenge by a mile, so the hatred of Rudd, by parliamentarians, is high.

Word is that Rudd's effort at Geelong on Friday was all set up. Apparently it was in an adjoining electorate which is a safe labor seat, with bussed in supporters. Gillards mob would be aware of that.
Just to give the impression he has 'rock star' popularity.

When will Labor get their act together. It is well known that a return to Rudd would be a disaster.

Rudd is well known among parliamentarians for his real self. It would be a great mistake to make him leader again just for the purpose of saving a few seats because of electoral perceptions. Spin and US style campaigning will not save Labor. This pre-election era is election by media and polls. If people keep reading and writing that Labor will lose, will it become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It seems some members are already packing up before any election results are in. How about getting out there and campaigning about what Labor has done that is worthwhile and stop the internal party bickering and put personal ambitions aside for the sake of the party. While I don't vote ALP I do preference them over Liberals.

If they don't get their act together, Australia will be governed by one of the most Conservative 'tea party' type manifestations of the LNP. The country will be governed ostensibly by the IPA and the mining magnates with money to throw around. Democracy will be further handed to those with position, money and power.

As much as I am critical of some of the ALP's record the alternative is much worse.

'If they don't get their act together, Australia will be governed by one of the most Conservative 'tea party' type manifestations of the LNP. '

yep Pelican and how competent and trustworthy they will be compared with the totally incompetent mob in power. Over a thousand drowned and tens of thousands of muslims with little propect of getting jobs joining our dole queue. Thanks Labour.

Labour are running out of labels for the incoming Government. Unbelievable that their are still about 28% of aussies willing to vote for Labour. Mainly unionist, public servants and academics full of self interest.

Do be careful what you wish for pelican, You might actually get it.

"How about getting out there and campaigning about what Labor has done that is worthwhile" you say, but if any of them started speaking the truth, it would be the end.

If the general population ever saw the real black heart of labor, they might even sink below the Greens. They are now reduced to those who keep their eyes & ears tight shut, to avoid learning what they desperately want to avoid knowing, so perhaps they are safe with what they have left.

I agree it would be ludicrous to go back to Rudd, the one who established the rot, I'm sure he would only use a return to try to use us to full fill his UN dreams, to our detriment of course.

However, with out Labor holding enough seats, the greens become just a noisy pressure group, of no importance to anyone.

I don't think they will bother. We stopped listening long ago. How do you minimise the damage when there is no talent or credibility to replace the present rotting carcase.

IT Pelican is not well known Rudd would be a disaster!
The very same polls that tell us Gillard has been a failure.
Point to Rudd as the preferred leader.
I wounder how you got that idea? unproven and sure to be proved wrong if Gillard, for any reason steps down/is replaced.
Knowing the ONLY challenge Rudd made, failed is no pointer to current speculation.
But it proves too that some in the party do not care much about its future if they go down with Gillard that will be imposable to ignore.
50/50 that is how it stands right now, very few want Gillard in and out side the party.
But do the likes of Shorten care? once I would never have doubted him, now self interest seems more important that party to him.

Belly
Do you still have Labor mates in the party. Ask a few of them. It is not that some of the Labor Caucus want Rudd for himself, it is about saving seats especially in QLD.

Arjay
You are right. Both sides of politics are not listening. It is a shame that in Australia we are pushed for the most part, to vote for the least worst.

Delighted to kick Gillard's crew out in Queensland. A dead cat would poll better than Julia Gillard, or her lurking side-kick and sleeper, Christine Milne (shudder, shudder).

Julia Gillard did a seagull whistle stop visit after the Queensland floods, deigned to tell all to carry on and fend for themselves (which they were already doing no thanks to Julia!), and then jetted off for long cushy travel overseas throwing millions of taxpayers' money away wherever she went to ingratiate herself.

Here is hoping there will never be another PM and federal ministers as self-serving as Gillard and her mob. Not that they will ever be letting go of the public teat when they are finally dislodged. They have big benefits to come, for their 'partners' too and for life.

Pelican writes

'You are right. Both sides of politics are not listening '

is that why the Liberal/National party look like winning more seats than any other for a long time. My advice then is don't listen especially to the mob that lies about climate change, that has loaded on Australia ten of thousands of refugees who paid people smugglers to get here before destroying their papers, whose policies have proven barbaric along with the Greens which has resulted in thousand plus men women and children drowning, to a Government that has spent money like no other, has left a dreadful mess. Thankfully with about 58% of people likely to vote for Liberal/national they can stop listening to the extreme small loud minorities normally given a voice by the ABC.

i hope Liberal/National don't listen to Labour or the rest of its 28% or so of Government workers unions and failed ideologist.

Wouldn't stepping down cost her some pension benefits?

It that's the case, fat chance, ours & Buckley's.

Listen up all to these important words. Abbott is going to get it so put pressure on him to take control of our Reserve Bank. The RBA should be at least creating our inflationary money of 3%.Our private banks borrow $35 billion pa from OS banks just to service our mortgages.

We lose out 3 times just with the creation of inflationary money as debt. First by depreciation of our currency, then having to repay the principal and lastly repaying the interest. Our private banks will also benefit here because more money will say here to enhance their money creation system. Banks are allowed to create from nothing $100 worth loans with just $10 worth of deposits.

Arjay - You may know this already but just in case.

The moment you put money into the bank it is not yours anymore, the bank can do anything they want with it and you have no say.
The only obligation the bank has to the depositor is to give the money back if the person wants it BUT if they lost or do not have enough when you ask for it you can't do anything.

Some banks have a guarantee on a certain amount like Cyprus $100,000 not sure what it is in Australia. It is nowhere near the amount some people have deposited.

In theory the bank boss can go to the casino and there is nothing you can do but hope you withdraw your money before it is all lost.

Welcome to the world of the rich and greedy.

They (labor) are simply following the script.

I, along with others said that the way Gillard wormed her way into office at the last election would be very damaging to the party, and we were spot on.

I personally said something along the lines of, "one posetive out of the election outcome, was that labor would self destruct and I would not see another labor governmnt for the rest of my working life".

They were simply given enough rope, amd the rest as they say, is history.

Thankfully, they have taken those so called independents with them.

What I didn't see coming was the $400 billion odd of waste, as I didn't think anyone could get things so wrong.

<< As much as I am critical of some of the ALP's record the alternative is much worse. >>

Yes indeed Pelican.

So where’s Kelvin Thomson?

HE is the answer to Labor’s woes, as I explained here:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15089#260810

The following links may be of interest - for
those interested in other perspectives:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/a-fair-go-for-prime-minister-julia-gillard/

And:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/judgement-of-history-will-be-kinder-to-pm-than-tv-news-cycle-20130321-2girw.html

And:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3886792.html

the funny part about the current situation is that just 3 years ago when the PM knifed the previous PM and then formed a very slimy alliance to form Government that the lefties took the high moral ground claiming that it was a legitimate democratic Government. Now they are claiming that Abbott is unpopular, a misogynist, no one wants him,people have lost faith in all leaders, blah, blah, blah

strange how they can't any longer accept the democratic process. Very very sour grapes.

Lexi,
I trust that the Labor Parliamentarians will give your links every consideration.

Yeah Julia should keep her job, at least till Sept 14

Ok, so no one is even remotely considering Kelvin Thomson.

So….. what about Mark Latham?

If you saw Q&A tonight, you might be able to appreciate that LABOR NEEDS HIM BACK!!

'what about Mark Latham? ' first one to admit Labours policies leading to a thousand plus deaths. He was loudly applauded for being the first honest one. Gillard and Rudd would be able to gain a tiny bit of respectability if they fessed up to their disgusting decision. So hard for them and their followers to admit they were wrong. Greens off scott free despite being just as guilty.
'

If, and every chance exists it will be so, Gillard remains.
What of her and her supporters post train wreck?
No doubt exists some support only them selves not the party ever.

Soon I hope, The ALP should draft K Rudd asap or face Armageddon
come September.
I live in fear and dread of a Tony Abbort led Tory Government in
Canberra, I would be even more more afraid if I were a woman, Abbort
in my view, has a noticeable dislike of women in general and female politicians in particular

loobee

Mark Latham didn't criticise policies. In fact he praised them but was critical of Labor's party structure and the power of faction leaders and sub-faction leaders who bring the party down and create lack of unity. Many would agree.

Pelican, Latham said that Howard’s asylum seeker policies were right and that Labor was terribly wrong to muck with them.

Yes Ludwig, but it is going to be very hard to reverse the flow.
A very hard line will have to be taken.
Turning the boats around will mean many will scuttle the boats and the
passengers and crew will have to be picked up.
There maybe a procedure that as they were passengers on an Indonesian
flagged vessel whose last port of departure was an Indonesian port the
vessel rescuing them should be able to take them back to Indonesia.

I don't know if that is maritime law, but it ought to be.

To scuttle a vessel at sea and place the passengers at risk would be
a capital crime in many countries. Perhaps it should be here.

loobee

'I live in fear and dread of a Tony Abbort led Tory Government in
Canberra, I would be even more more afraid if I were a woman, Abbort
in my view '

be horribly afraid loobee because you can see what a terrible husband and father Tony has been. I mean if he was the 'new age ' emasculated male his daughters might of been able to grow up without a dad and his wife could of joined emily's list. Be very afraid loobee.

That was the only one policy he commented on in a negative way. The NDIS, NBN and others he said were commendable but nobody was listening. Even Turnbull finds it difficult to support the 'turn the boats back' approach. He even said 'if it was safe'. He knows full well it will never be safe especially if the boat is scuttled.

If the LNP really wanted to deter boats they would have agreed to the Malaysia solution. This topic has unfortunately become a political battle ground with little thought to the people drowning. If the ALP cannot get the legislation through they are stuck with the current policy and then the LNP criticises it despite their own lack of real solutions.

The TPVs were not a bad idea and took people out of detention centres but as was discussed eventually the majority of people on TPVs were given citizenship.

Despite Labor's attempts at 'stopping the boats' in this case the LNP chose to sabotage the policy. The LNP stated they were concerned about human rights but this did not stop John Howard from using detention centres or to ignore the problems that arose from those centres as they are also happening now under Labor. It is dirty politics pure and simple.

I personally vote for the shrew to stay on. I want Labor to face the full consequences of its shocking policies, and am not keen to see a bounce in the polls due to Rudd's return and collective amnesia with respect to what a terrible PM he was 3 years ago.

Mark Latham was quite impressive on "Q and A,"
last night. I certainly never imagined that he
would make so much sense. He certainly was spot
on with the workings of the infrastructure of the
Labor Party. And he did make Malcolm Turnbull look
rather foolish with Turnbull's constant espousal of
the Liberal Party line. I guess when you're no longer
in politics you can say what you really think instead
of having to toe the party line. Politics is a dirty
business - and it is a shame that party's can't come
together to achieve better results for the nation.
Who cares whose idea it is/was - if it's a good one
why play politics. No wonder people are so disillusioned
with things at present - and both sides have a great
deal to answer for. As Emerson pointed out - things
are rather good at present despite all the media hype -
but heaven help us if the Opposition really get in.
All they keep doing is telling us what's wrong with
the government. If they get elected - they'll be able
to prove it.

I particularly enjoyed Latham's rubbishing of Labor's border protection policies, and support for the pacific solution.

I think Turnbull's description of turning the boats around, and escorting them to the edge of the 12 Nm territorial limit was sound, and clearly demonstrated that it is entirely possible for the boats to be turned around with or without Indonesia's co operation.

Bringing Rudd back would be as disastrous as bringing Ponting back for the Ashes.

Sometimes a team just has to take the thrashing, and use it for experience. The ALP should have started thinking about the next term in opposition. Bringing in Rudd now serves no useful purpose long term.

Then again long term thinking is illegal in politics.

"I personally vote for the shrew to stay on" SM If the Labor Mafia were to take a vote, will you be the ferret in the corner holding up your paw in support of Gillard?
I personally can't wait for September 14th when the Mad Monk and his band of Oompa Loompas start running the chocolate factory, its going to be very interesting. When the moaning and groaning starts, to paraphrase Mr Clocks, "it the government we had to have".
SM a question for you, what position do you see for Archy Pell in an Abbott led government? Mystical adviser.

To answer the question should Julia resign the question I ask is why is she so unpopular.

The first and most obvious reason is, she is seen as having stabbed Rudd in the back, in a way that most Aussies perceive as not fair play.

The second reason I believe, is she has produced results seriously lacking any substance, for example the mining super tax, which so far has raised minimal tax. The question of boat refuges is another example where she has taken a tough stand which has turned out not to achieve the stated aim.

To cap it all off she manages to rub a lot of people up the wrong way. I meet many people who tend to support labour, and they simply can´t stand her.

It is very obvious that under Julia the labour party is heading for a train wreck. It is also unlikely that Rudd can win the next election but at this stage it is virtually certain that under his leadership they would retain many more seats.

I doubt the labour party has the courage to dump Julia, it would mean accepting that they had made a very serious error of judgement. The labour parties best chance, would be for Julia to resign and also give up her seat. In view of labour chances of winning the next election under Julia being close to zero, it would be the best way for her future reputation.

Paul,

As I am not sufficiently corrupt to be associated with the Labor caucus, I won't be getting a vote.

I also can't wait for September when Australia votes to restore government to the sensible status it had prior to 2007. Hopefully the fruitcakes and whack jobs in the greens (the only party worse than the ALP) lose most of their senate seats and their only lower house seat.

What position do you see for ET in the greens? Now that Brown eyed Bob has left, will he continue as moral advisor to Milne?

The best solution for the Labour Party would be for Gillard not to
stand for re election.
I cannot see that happening, but it would be the best all round way out
of the whole mess. Rudd should also not stand and that would give the
party a clear field with all the baggage of the past six years wiped out.

The only reason that there is a move to get Rudd back in is to try and
save the seats of some of the Labour ministers by attracting just a few more votes.

Pelican I no longer move in such circles.
But as I always have and will, live with the type who once voted for us.
It is true, within the party, and its owners/boss the Unions, hate Rudd.
His intentions to give the party back to the people seem to drive that hate.
A smugness those owners live with, thinking the ALP is their toy, is not representative of what the voters want.
Gillard will survive, because those smug mugs want her to.
She will sink and hopefully so to will the smug tug boats keeping her tormenting my partys rank and file, and ruining its last chance.

Post Gillards sinking we will remember those who knew saying sorry would improve our vote and show they have been wrong from the start.
Our best hope is they too sink.

No no no, she must stay.

No one has the right to deny the Oz people the opportunity to kick the bitch out. After all the damager she has done to so many, we deserve that final act.

SM,

Of course you'd think anything that Turnbull or
any Liberal party MP said would be "sound".

However Turnbull did specify that turning the
boats around only when it is "safe" to do so.
And if the boats are scuttled or "unsafe."
then they won't be stopped. This gives the
Libs the "loop-hole," they'll need, when they
can't stop the boats. Clever. Just like the
"core" and uncore" promises under Howard.
Hypocrites! "Stop the Boats," indeed. Slogans,
and more slogans!

It's unsatisfying Hasbeen.

I was so excited to evict the Rodent, personally have a hand in him losing Benelong, yet no more than a year or two later I felt empty, with nobody to despise.

Hopefully I can despise The Monk like I despised The Rodent. Not that the left would ever stoop to using pejorative terms against a respected parliamentarian.

In hindsight, the rodent runs rings around anyone left in parliament. At least he had a coherent consistent philosophy, even if it was rubbish. He had the balls to ignore the polls much more than either the monk or that weird school principal woman.

And who doesn't aspire to being 'Relaxed and Comfortable'.

Lexi my sweet, I'd pay at least triple the going rate to any people smuggler who would take Julia, Turnbull & Rudd on a one way trip to any where but here. If ever there were people who's space was of more value than their presence, those 3 are at the top of the list.

Yes Houellebecq I expect it is. All the expectation, the hope for a better future, then nothing, or complete disillusionment.

I've only experienced it when a very poor company CEO left, & we were all happy. The new one was even worse. We had not thought it possible but it was.

You have to give Howard that Houle, he had guts. He was prepared to stick his neck out to do what he thought was right. Got away with it a couple of times too.

Got to be better than someone who doesn't give a stuff what's right, only what might buy a few votes.

SM, any comment on that grand old man of the Liberal Party, Malcolm Fraser calling for a vote for The Greens, yes Malcolm advocates a vote for democracy and the best way to achieve that is to vote Green. A true statesman, a man of the people, Malcolm, I'm overcome with emotion.

....the NDIS, NBN and others he said were commendable

Yes, but did he say affordable Pelican, I doubt it.

Even now the pm is pushing so hard to have her Gonski reforms implemented, because she knows they (labor) in opposition can acuse Tony Abbott of failing to fund this, and other currently unfunded policies/promises/dreams.

The sad part Paul, is that prior to Kevin 07, it was a very successful BOOMING economy, as it was labor who manage to take this great nation and turn it in to the chocolate factory you refer to.

Lexi,

Quite so.

Howard never really "stopped the boats". They still kept coming but were turned around and this was deliberately not reported in the media (as admitted by Downer on ABC radio after the election).

However, Indonesia protested about this at the time and when the Oceanic Viking - a private vessel - tried to offload rescued refugees back on Indonesia, they were turned away.

What chance would a Australian Naval vessel have of cruising into an Indonesian port and dumping people on the dock?

None, I would think.

Scuttling boats is an easy strategy and this is what the Navy has already warned about.

I'm guessing that this would qualify as Abbott's first electoral lie, loophole or not.

The failure of delivering an "automatic 10% reduction in electricity bills" will be his next one when he removes the evil Carbon price wrecking ball from the economy.

Clearly never, the so called tough lady has no intention of putting party first.
However the power brokers/party breakers still have time to remove her.
I think the fact doing so, says they got it wrong.
And that alone stops them.
What then for them,once they drive the party over the cliff.
By the way see and hear her speech to her women supporters?
Made me quite sick.

Changing leaders now would be like offering a lamb to the slaughter, as I doubt even Bob could save this party.

The theme in the party room would be something like, "ok, so hands up who wants to be shot", I doubt it will happen.

Besides, if Rudd does challenge, he goes against his word, and after all, more lies are the last thing this party needs.

My view is that if Rudd wants the top job, it's his, as he will simply step in after Julia does an Anna and flees.

Rache, I still say that we should suspend all aid to Indo, until THEY stop the boats from leaving.

Either way, labor are criticizing an LNP policy (turn back the boats) but at the end of the day, this is a mess CAUSED by labor in the first place.

So the new trend appears to be, break something, then blame the other side if they try to fix it.

Labor will never be forgiven for this mess THEY CREATED!

It is more of the gender war and feminist bandwagon stuff that got arrogant, selfish, careerists like Julie Gillard where they are.

She has well and truly over-worn it though. To such an extent that the tough old left feminists like Eva Cox are afraid that Julia could ruin what has been a very lucrative gig for them for decades. The gaff on feminism's faking and bluff is well and truly blown though. As well, it always was about the interests and careers of an elite of educated, middle class women.

<Feminist commentator Eva Cox said she was "wary" of Ms Gillard's latest bid to win female votes. "I think it's a fairly shallow attempt," she said. "I am much more interested in the policies she's putting out there, not the rhetoric and there's nothing new or exciting here for women."

Ms Cox took issue with Ms Gillard's use of the abortion debate, saying it was "not really a federal issue", and she was just attempting to turn the focus on to Mr Abbott.>

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillard-fires-abortion-salvo-in-gender-war/story-fn59niix-1226662153495

so the 100000 or so baby slaughters per year under Howard is not enough for the feminist. More more they want. And Gillard is disgusting enough to cheer the sisterhood on.

Julia Gillard has really lost all sense of the plot.
I can only think that she is very desperate.

That speach to those women, probably means she lost the vote of more
men than she gained the vote of women.
Not heard any womens' comments, but my wife thinks it was stupid.
She is off to the hairdresser's today, so she is going to poll them.

What on earth did she think she was doing ?
I never thought she was stupid, but now I am wondering if I was wrong !

The next thing we will hear from this desperate PM is that Abbott will set fire to kittens.

rehctub
If revenue can extend to subsidies and corporate and middle class welfare it can extend to those in our communities who need support to care for the disabled.

A high quality NBN will give Australian business a boost, which will do more than any wasted subsidies thrown at it.

SM
Have to agree with you on the gender issues being raised. The last thing Australia needs is another divisive wedge. This was poorly thought out by the PM and smacks of desperation. Tony Abbott is not a monster and if she paints him as such she will only end up looking as bad as the LNP did when they spruiked vile commentary such as 'ditch the witch' and worse. This sort of disrespect for each other does not endear either to the general public.

Now Mal Brough is at it as well. At least he said sorry, that makes everythign allright. What is going on with these politicians these days. Is it the water - rusty pipes up at Parliament House?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-12/mal-brough-says-sorry-for-menu-jibe-at-gillard/4748516

I think if the Prime Minister was to walk on water
some people would still cry, "See, she can't swim!"

It's interesting how these same people don't hold a
blow-torch to Mr Abbott, et al, and call them to
account. But I suppose if wearing blue ties is enough
of a credential for the top jobs in this country -
they deserve what they get.

Yes, well Wayne Swan had a blue tie on yesterday.
Is that an indication on the wind direction ?

Dear Bazz,

No. Not at all.
It's an act of defiance.

Besides the colour of ties will now change for the
Opposition. Mr Abbott told his dentist his
teeth were going yellow. He was told to
wear a brown tie. ;-);-);-)

I have to say that it does indeed look like a typical act of desperation to reprise the misogynist/anti-women topic.

I'm no fan of Abbott, but it's pretty clear that Gillard is toast...and desperately attempting to put another spin on the situation.

Although....having just seen this little gem courtesy of a Liberal Party fundraiser - perhaps she's more on the ball than I've given her credit for

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-12/opposition-on-back-foot-in-sexism-row-after-menu-published-onli/4748826

Good old, Mal Brough - it he's not helping Ashby out, I suppose he has to find something to do with his time.

Mr Abbott says he condemns it, saying also that this episode "...should 'absolutely not' cast doubt on Mr Brough's pre-selection..."

(Stinky pollies:)

The subject is for supporters of Labor, and for just those who fear Abbott, is frightening.
Knowing what he will do, and how it will drag us apart, is too.
But take all that on board, give me the solidarity speech again.
And still *enough will never vote for a party led by Gillard*, unpalatable as it is, Labor/Gillard can not win.

I seem to remember a Labor party conference a few months ago with all the cabinet in attendance which poked obscene and sexist jokes at Abbott's chief of staff. (and at which not one ALP member protested until after the event).

If Mal B had made the comment and not one of the catering staff, there might be a reason to take umbridge. However, given above, the ALP is just as sexist as the Liberals, and given the history of say Hawke's womanising, they have nothing to preach about.

SM,

Hawke's womanising wasn't displayed on a menu for future reference.

The Libs are pretty stoopid sometimes.

pretty bad Mal but a woman who uses the slaughter of the unborn to demonise someone leaves a lot to be desired. I suppose that's what they teach u at Emily's list. Not happy with 100000 murders under the Howard Government they scream for more blood. A distasteful menu is very minor compared to this despicable act from a PM who stabbed the former PM to gain the job. What a role model for the young girls! not.

runner,

Why are you so obsessed with the fetus
from birth to nine months only?
Human life is worthy of being nurtured
during all its phases.

No neo-natal care, no day care, no school lunches,
no welfare. If you're pre-born you're fine.
If you're pre-school, you're screwed.

How about broadening out your outlook?

Live babies should not turn out to be dead soldiers
because some politician decides who the enemy is.

Just take two seconds to think before you post.

Criticism is very valuable if it promotes robust debate
But before you criticise, think what gain is going to
come out of that criticism and sometimes maybe you keep
it in the think bubble istead of a post bubble.

Lexi

just because your dogmas has calloused your heart so hard that you don't recognise human life being killed does not mean others don't.

But Pelican, there in lies the problem, the revenue doesn't extend, in fact, we are slashing spending in many areas, while a the same time borrowing to fund things like, the illegals and aid to Indonesia.

Work that out!

One can't imagine just where we will be post coal mining.

Poirot

looks like you owe Mal an apology. I won't be holding my breath.

Yeah, runner,

Mal's a top bloke.

Just look what Rares J says about him here:

http://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/judgments/Judgments/fca/single/2012/2012fca1411

Just in case you can't be bothered, here's an excerpt from the Judge's conclusion (199):

"....Mr Ashby acted in combination with Ms Doane and Mr Brough when commencing the proceedings in order to advance the interests of the LNP and Mr Brough. Mr Ashby and Ms Doane set out to use the proceedings as part of their means to enhance or promote their prospects of advancement or preferment by the LNP, including by using Mr Brough to assist them in doing so. And the evidence also established that the proceedings were an abuse of the process of the Court for the reasons I have given..."

Great stuff, eh, runner.

P,

So Bob Hawke, after a string of dalliances dumps his wife for his secretary. And Labor has crude jokes about Abbott's chief of staff to the senior labor caucus. Yup, Labor are the worst hypocrites.

Labor are in the zero policy zone, where all their populist policies have been a disaster.

Gillard SM kept that menu for near two months.
I think you need not confront her she has done that her self.
So I assuming the roll of old Doc Bell, having failed to find a pulse in the ALP, advise we watch the next two weeks to see who owns the ALP.
But I fear the illness/Gillard may be fatal.

PS we Labor tragics will use far more offensive terms in talking about Abbott, Howard,s wifes toy.
But will we,on gaining evidence put in in a draw for two months before announcing to the world it is offensive?
Dillard lost more male voters with her silly walks act at her female supporters meeting than she won females.
At least she killed of other than the very best females at the top in our future by her declarations , my blue tie is now my favorite

It is a bit odd. This dinner all the fuss is about was in March but the
menu has only just surfaced.
Did it appear just as Gillard was being attacked on the speach ?
Had someone being holding it waiting for an opportunity ?

Then after all that it turns out that it was not the menu anyway !
Which explains why Brough and Hockey said they had not seen it.
However they were called liars by government members. How ironic.
Gillard cannot even manage a political scandal !

The upshot is she is now a Blue Tie laughing stock !

Any politician that becomes a laughing stock is truly finished.

Bazz - Any politician that becomes a laughing stock is truly finished.

The red-headed witch has been a laughing stock for years but somehow it manages to keep going. Whats even more scarey is that some big company will undoubtedly give the creature a highly paid job after September.

SM,

Just a couple of reminders:

Tampa, Utegate, Slush funds, Ashbygate,
Yeah, blue ties are the ties that bind,
and bind, and bind! Keep on with the slogans
of the "Carbon Tax," "We'll Stop The Boats,"
give the electorate what they want to hear.
After-all if these things weren't vote-winners
and didn't represent an advantage in the opinion
polls, then our political discourse would be
different. Who needs respect - after all it's
all only politics. And, sadly you've got nothing
else.

Dear runner,

I assume that you have a heart. You just need to get it
to beat more often.

Lexi

If there was any semblance of legitimacy associated with the vast majority of boat people, why wouldn't they take advantage of the infinitely cheaper & safer 'visa' approach ??

Likewise, why don't the red-headed witch & the RAbott want a public debate on the issue ??

As a number of contributors have stated, there is no suggestion Australians in general oppose 'legitimate' refugees, the whole problem is the considerable suspicion that most are NOT genuine & this view is enhanced when we see tricks like destroying passports, scuttling boats etc. Whats the problem with requiring them to demonstrate their bona-fides ??

So…. What do we want from our government?

It seems to me that there is an awful lot of diversity in the electorate amongst those who do have some idea of what our government should be doing, but that the majority of voters simply don’t have a strong feeling for any particular political direction.

It is also apparent that the electorate is making it nigh on impossible for the government to do its job. The main problem is that the people demand lower taxes and costs of all sorts, but also demand better services and infrastructure, which simply doesn’t add up.

The other major point is the continuous push for rapid population growth, which makes it impossible for the government to significantly improve most services and infrastructure on the national scale.

So, how on earth do we get the government we want if we the people don’t know what we want or what is best for our future??

It’s all very well for us to be concerned about improving efficiencies within government, but if it is then used to take us in the wrong direction, we could all be even worse off. And there is a much greater possibility of it being used in just this way than for our betterment for as long as the vested-interest big business fraternity is allowed to rule the roost.

It seems to me that Labor is closer to following the right sort of path than the Coalition. Abbott’s mob really is stuck in the short term, while Labor has made genuine attempts to deal with some of our big issues.

So what we really need here is to NOT to install Abbott as PM, but rather to keep Labor in power. We need to push for a new baggage-free Labor, which will do what Gillard wanted but was unable to even get started – the achievement of a sustainable Australia.

continued

No one on OLO seems very interested in my push for Kelvin Thomson as PM, or Bob Carr. But I really do think that this is the best way forward.

Currently, all the banter about Gillard and Abbott, lies and mismanagement, is really getting us nowhere, and is pushing us more strongly in the wrong direction by promoting an even more strongly antisustainable Abbott government.

Dear Prax.,

As I wrote on another thread,

"Australia's refugee policy is symptomatic of a
political preparedness to pander to short-term
electoral interest over tenable long-term
planning, much less humanitarian concern.
With a federal election looming and an
incumbent government needint to pull a political
rabbit out of the hat, it is hard to see how
things could improve, indeed, the likelihood is that
the politicking at the expense of asylum seekers will
only get worse."

Out politicians' nonsensical and frequently inhumane
remarks ("We'll Stop The Boats") about asylum seekers
are partly, if not largely based on what they
believe Australians want. (Sad). If the brutal logic
pf deterrance of "stopping the boats" wasn't an advantage
in the opinion polls, the political discourse would be different.

We are part of the problem. It is time we became part of
the solution and demanded more of our politicians.

Ludwig

Its inconceivable that the red-headed witch will be around after September, even the majority of the ALP members recognize their day has passed. Personally I hope the RAbbott doesn't get up either, anyone who resorts to the depths to which he did in respect of One nation isn't worthy of trust.

Praxadice,

My take is that the only job she could get would be back in the union fold, as she has no business experience outside of representing them. Big business is savvy enough to realise that taking her on board would be a fast way to bankruptcy.

Her petty mudslinging at Abbott only proves she has not progressed beyond schoolyard name calling, but I notice she is not so happy when the tables are turned on her. Every time she opens her mouth proves nothing more than she is good with words, but should NEVER have been allowed to continue to run our country. She is a disgrace to her position, has tarnished our image on the world stage, and many women now also realise she assumes by speaking on their behalf as well that they share her inferior complex.

BTW, if a report I read is correct which states 70% of this government have no experience in the business world, how then can we expect them to run the huge business of governing this country efficiently?

Praxidice,

Sorry, misspelled your Forum name. Just correcting my error here.

Dear worldwatcher,

Just to correct a few things.
If you were to Google the biographies of
the politicians on Labor's front bench
you would have a more accurate picture
of their vast experience.

As an example, the PM's experience includes:

1) President of the Australian Union of Students
at Melbourne University in 1983.
2) Handled many difficult cases for Slater and Gordon
and became a partner in the firm in 1990.
3) Was Chief of Staff to the Victorian State Opposition
Leader John Brumby .
4) Won a seat in Parliament in 1998.

She's held several portfolios including:
a) Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations.
b) Minister for Education.
c) Minister for Social Inclusion.
d) Deputy Prime minister.

She's been described as a good negotiator and a consensus
politician. Is persistent, focused, very bright, and not afraid
to take risks. She's gotten where she is in the blokey world
of politics on sheer ability and persistence passing many
bills. Her team is equally impressive.

Mr Abbott on the other hand has done nothing to establish
his, or his party's economic credentials. He seems content
to coast along on inane slogans and rhetoric.

Lexi - We are part of the problem. It is time we became part of
the solution and demanded more of our politicians.

Agree 100%. I'm doing my bit at a local authority level, quite a few hundred people in the group who are absolutely incensed about the inanity of several southern Queensland councils to the point where they are prepared to make as much noise as is required to force the clowns to sit up and take notice. Hopefully we'll grow big enough & ugly enough to tackle the state gubmunt later this year.

worldwatcher - Big business is savvy enough to realise that taking her on board would be a fast way to bankruptcy

Remember that big business (if it can be called that) took on GoAnna the Blight, easily the most inept premier in recorded history. One can only hope that the private sector has the nous not to fall into the same trap with the red-headed witch.

worldwatcher - 70% of this government have no experience in the business world

Actually I'd be surprised if the percentage with real world experience is anywhere near 30%, and even then they undoubtedly proved to be miserable failures. The LNP figures wouldn't be appreciably better, failed lawyers & failed priests are simply leeches and don't rate as relevant in my book. I've never been able to figure why even the smallest business has a trained, qualified& experienced beancounter but the biggest business in the country gets a half-cut certifiable lunatic to mess with zillions of taxpayers money. Is it any wonder nobody can balance the books ??

I see Poirot

in keeping with the feminist dogma after defaming someone falsely we shall never admit we are wrong. We shall divert the issue. Typical.

runner

I see you forget the two primary rules of feminism

(1) men are ALWAYS in the wrong in everything they say and do

(2) if in doubt, rule (1) applies

Worldwatcher I am an ex union official.
From this country,s best one,always.
The very one Gillard was said to hurt in the fraud thing.
I doubt she would find work there, ACTU? maybe.
My life,s love, that union is a distant thought, nothing is more ex than an ex.
It too is the one, the very one, that both knifed Rudd.
And supports the woman.
More than I can say for some of my former mates there now,in relation to me.
Predicting Rudd,s rise, I was the subject of jokes.
After? even the solicitors wanted my views.
Now? keeping my back to the walls.
Yet just as much as my prediction of Rudd,s rise was right, my views about Gillard and those who support her are too.
She after the wages of PM would be unable to live on my former wages.
Do you know every chance Abbott will give her an embassy exists? they look after each other this breed.
It is not over both leaders may not be the ones at election.
But I shudder to think what Gillard would think if she heard what some of the best very long term union delegates call her in e mails every day.
Or in the crowded lunch shed on any construction site.
The fact is she is gone and my party too if it try,s to breath life back in to last years road kill.

Lexi,

You forgot to include in Juliar's CV,

Sleeping with Clients, of S&G
fired from Slater and Gordon,
and that her performance in any of her ministries or shadow portfolios was poor.

PS, How did the mining tax negotiations go?

<< Its inconceivable that the red-headed witch will be around after September. >>

Probably right Praxidice, but I don’t think that it is inconceivable that Labor could still be in power, if they play their cards right, in the way that I have suggested.

Afterall, who really thinks that Abbott will do a good job? Everyone expects him to stuff it up. He and his mob are just going to get hounded continuously right from the very start.

Therefore the scope for Labor to reinvent itself and win the election has surely got to be considerable.

Kelvin Thomson for PM!

If he doesn’t win, he’ll be opposition leader and will put the party in an excellent position to win the following election.

But hey, if they just continue on with the same old same old, they’re not only stuffed this time but for the following and election as well and quite possibly forever!

The way I see it, it’s a complete no-brainer. They simply MUST profoundly reinvent themselves. And the Kelvin Thomson / sustainability motive seems like a very clear and obvious way forward. I can’t see any alternative.

Belly,

You speak from your heart, and unfortunately you're probably right on most every point. Do you think that the original role of unions bosses- to care for the well-being of their party members is now just a self serving 'look after the ones in charge' role? I'm leery of anyone who rises from the union floor, and can suddenly afford one or more over million dollar homes.

Lexi dear,

I did say business experience. Maybe I should have clarified the point. I meant business as in manufacturing, retail, mining etc. etc. as opposed to being a union lawyer graduating to government employee.

I do not dispute she is a master of debate, as are many people. This does not equate to hands on business acumen. BTW, Obama also took the same route to power as Gillard, with even more devastating results for his country, although per capita, we're not lagging that far behind are we?

Regardless of the spin we are being given, our unemployment figures are rising, as are the number of homeless, and our economy is now under stress. A fast disappearing species is the happy-go-lucky Aussie who faced problems with a "she'll be right mate".
When was the last time you heard that?

Wishful thinking, or self delusion old mate. Which ever it is not good for you.

Don't forget that Rudd is even worse than Gillard, at running things. She is just a nasty bit of fluff, who never gets anything done, so not too much damage, & easily reversed by that smart Abbott soon.

Rudd is as much or more despised, & incompetent, but he does actually get things done. Always the wrong thing, in his case, just as Julia, but done never the less.

Nah, you're going to have to bite the bullet old mate, & vote for at least some improvement.

Abbott for ever!

Shadow Minister,

As always, the devil is in the details, and no amount of accolades Lexi gives her can alter the facts. Google is great for facts and figures [most times], but the details are more important, as you pointed out.

I also have to wonder how a lawyer who [previously]specialised in industrial [for this read 'union']law was given a portfolio in the then 1981 Shadow Government for population and immigration policy. From there to Indigenous affairs and health. Well, that one bombed too, didn't it?

As I've noted on other threads, there have been some really great women leaders in our world. And then there is Julia who has let down all the women who pinned their hopes on her, as did some men. Wayne Swan comes to mind here as a prime example, along with chubby cheeked Kevin who actually trusted her to back him up.

Lexi dear,

May I gently suggest to you that selecting a CV on Google to publish on the Forum is not quite the same as reading our political history. Even then, we the people will never be fully aware of the behind the scenes drama played out by politicians. Maybe future generations will learn more from their history studies. By then today's issues will hopefully no longer be relevant.
What we do understand is when our lives become affected by the Machiavellian actions of politicians which impact on us at this moment in time.
Quite rightly, any Prime Minister should be scrutinised by the public. They are employed by us to serve our country, and should at all times be beyond reproach

Julia simultaneously holds the position that she need not be married or have children to relate to the needs of families, but argues that men in blue ties can not possibly understand the plight of women in this country. Somehow the latter is not be considered sexist. Or rather misogynist, as she has redefined it.

Dear worldwatcher,

I am judging the PM by her actions. By the amount of
worthwhile legislation that has been passed. By
her toughness and coolness under
intense pressure which is an asset that all Australians
of all stripes should appreciate. It's what we need
in a leader - a person who's not prone to panic. A
person who does not run out of Parliament
at the drop of a hat.
Or punches walls, people, or talks in slogans.
The trouble is Australians are not used to such qualities
in a woman and there are plenty who feel uncomfortable
with it. Being a tough leader and a female, makes our
PM a unique target, but what has been shown is that no
matter what's been thrown at her, she, stands firm.

Libs will always have us believe it's a choice
between looking after the economy and looking after
the people who make the economy work. They want Australians
to go down the path of privatisation and inequality where
government exists to serve Big Business and ordinary
people are left to fend for themselves. Punishing roads
to cuts and austerity is not what creates lasting
prosperity.

Tony Abbott keeps talking about the "Golden" years
under Howard. The truth of the matter
as economic experts
have pointed out - is that the
Coalition had the fortune to hold office in good
economic times, especially from 1996 to 2007 when the
Howard government enjoyed the dividends of the Hawke-Keating
economic reforms and when the world economy was enjoying a
long speculative driven boom.
Good luck perhaps, but hardly good management.

The experts make it quite clear that:

The Howard government let fiscal impression management
displace sound economic management and directed political
attention to only one side of the public balance sheet,
the debt side while ignoring the asset side. If the
Howard cabinet had been the board of a publicly listed
company, the shareholders would have thrown them
out for weakening the Company's asset base.

As for our current economy? That's why we have a AAA Credit
rating from the 3 key ratings agencies.

Ahhh, Lexi, you disproved your own case.
Ref was to Julia's CV.

I think you are aware that I believe that both parties are driving
along not being aware of what is really going on in world economy and
industry and resources.

I am hoping that the Lib/CP will have the guts to pull the plug on many
programs that are fast taking us past the hope of ever having a sustainable economy.

If they do wake up and start cutting back to a sustainable level there
will be an unholy uproar, and I can hear you now saying "I told you so!"

We have little enough time to get an alternative energy regime up and
running without governments doing their best to ignore it all.
An example of their out of touchness is to allow NSW & Victoria to be
soon running short of natural gas while we go flat out exporting it.

Can you suggest anything more stupid !

There you go again Lexi, it's all about passing legislation for you.

So, may I suggest that you follow up on that wonderful legislation, and see just how many great polices have been SUCCESFULLY implemented.

Trust me, you won't be needing a calculator.

we r taught that it is how people lose that demostrates their character more so then them winning. Obviously Gillard never won but formed slimy deals. Abbott has done well to remain a great opposition leader. I wonder what more Julia will show us about herself if she loses?

runner,

(I'm intrigued by your use of Letters like "u" and "r" to communicate on this forum. It's not a mobile phone , you know - or are you trying to regain that teenage feeling? Mid-life crisis, perhaps)

Anyhooo...just wondering when they're going let Tony out of the wardrobe and remove his gag on anything that matters?

The only time we hear him say anything these days is to apologise for some gaff his underlings have made and to let us know he's not going to disendorse them.

Lexi dear,

Thank you for your impassioned defence of Julia, along with the accompanying lecture regarding your opinion of present past and present Libs.

Now may we revert to the original topic of her CV please? You have yet to comment on that, so I will ask you again what experience has she had apart from being a lawyer for the union and then into government. What formal qualifications does she hold in business management, i.e. an MBA perhaps? Has she even had any formal training in economics or political history?

Tony Abbott on the other hand studied for bachelor of economics and law, was a Rhodes scholar,and has also experienced life outside the rarified atmosphere of law and government. We hear and read constantly detrimental comments about his catholic background, but little notice is taken of his trips to Indigenous communities or volunteer fire fighting. At least the man has some admirable old fashioned principles and values. Since when has marriage, religious faith and voluntarily helping his community become of lesser value than JG being proud to publicly announce herself as being a childless, unwed self confessed atheist?

Sorry Lexi - now you have me deviating from the main topic too. Shame on me for allowing it! However, 'facts is facts' as we say, and sometimes we need to be reminded of them.

Lexi,

You are quite right in saying the Howard government had the good fortune that they were in power in good economic times.

Labour also had the good fortune to inherit power in good economic times, so why aren't we in a surplus situation now?

Runner,

What will Julia do if she loses? Brace yourself! I believe the saying 'Hell hath no fury greater than a woman scorned' will apply in this instance.

This is a person who will not go gracefully, nor forgive anyone in politics who she feels has contributed to her demise, or even we the people, for voting her out.

I don't know worldwatcher, I think she has well & truly proved herself incompetent enough to offered a senior post at the UN, & bugger off quick time.

God wouldn't that upset old Ruddy, if she got what he was angling for.

I reckon they will have to use plastic knives at any Labor leaders old boys, [& girls] meetings for many years to come.

worldwatcher - the man has some admirable old fashioned principles and values

Huh ?? You mean like torpedoing One Nation in order to avoid accountability, siding with the red-headed witch to get a criminally exorbitant salary increase & doing a deal with the female reincarnation of Lucifer on the electoral funding issue without having the decency to mention it to his party ?? Values & principles like that I can do without.

We should watch this weekend and the next two weeks in Parliament.
The odds are right now she will remain.
And in doing so inherit a name more sullied than Latham,s in the party.
No one can tell how bad the wreckage will be just that it will be.
My rantings [in the eyes of a few fellow travelers] will be in common use after we smash on the rocks at Gillard point.
How much braver it would be, if only those plaintive voices to come spoke out now not post tragic near death of my party.
In the right hand my party can go very close still.

Belly - The odds are right now she will remain.

The witch is clearly far too arrogant to step down, regardless of the damage it causes the party. As someone else noted 'hell hath no fury'. Furthermore, she'll be wanting to ensure the higher PM retirement perks apply, similarly to GoAnna the Blight who subjected Queensland to the cost of a by-election simply so she could maximize her rip-off.

<< Nah, you're going to have to bite the bullet old mate, & vote for at least some improvement. Abbott for ever! >>

Wow Hazza, what an extraordinary contradiction!

‘Some improvement’, ‘Abbott’!?!? ( :>/

Ludwig

Queenslanders believed it would be impossible for any gubmunt to be worse than the Blighters (who were unbelievably inept), however after 18 months of the Newman / Seeney / Nicholls debacle, most of us are now wondering 'what did we do'. What makes the deep north possibly 'different' is the lack of an upper house, an 'opposition' that meets in the back of a prehistoric Tarago, and an AWOL governor who figures her mission in life is squandering taxpayers money. Whether or not a RAbbott gubmunt would be as bad as what we have in Queensland is another question. There is a chance the senate will have some clout & even the possibility what remains as opposition will retain legitimate party status (not the case in Queensland). Dunno about the GG, I see no reason to believe she has any more interest in keeping the parasites in line than does the Queensland one. Ideally I'd love to see Big Clive get then numbers for control in his own right, and if perchance the fish and chip lady gets to lord it over RAbbott, that would be a major blessing. Must remember to ask Clive to declare 'One Nation Day' in commemoration of freedom of expression prevailing over greed.

Prax are you aware just how raw your insults are?
In truth you can do better.
She when ever she goes will stumble as is her normal way, not step down.
Hopefully soon.
This mornings Labor based, insult about her, in my e mail is harsh and rude, but still has class too.
Sattler would have been beheaded for it, and it comes from within the ALP.

http://www.afr.com/p/business/sunday/june_transcript_laura_tingle_on_quTB5E1fhy1hpTcVeBl24H
A link not from an extreme.
And in no way extremist.
Yet it asks again the questions.
Why will she not step down?
Why do her supporters support her?
And why, taking the polls in to account, can power broking union heads support our coming loss?
Chuck in a last but important question, do they not see the stand they take puts Liberals in power and recent union gains at risk?

Belly - Why will she not step down?

Elementary my dear Watson (or Belly or whoever). The red-headed witch is quite aware that if she steps down, her retirement handout will be around half what it will be if she stays til September 14th. GoAnna the Blight did exactly the same in Queensland although the wicked witch of the north actually won her seat of South Brisbane but chose to subject Queenslanders to a by-election. Scum the pair of them.

Prax NOT WITHIN A BULLS ROAR.
Stepping down highlights the lie Rudd,s polling saw him knifed.
Highlights the knife men got it wrong.
They value their ego not my party.
Dillard [far more class than that red witch kids stuff]is power mad,maybe the latter word alone.
She will not go.
Factions within my party prop her up,with threats not to endorse those who say party first!
Prax you tell me.
*Why would any group of party owners kill the only bull in the paddock and wait for new born calf's*?

Belly - *Why would any group of party owners kill the only bull in the paddock and wait for new born calf's*?

Your guess is better than mine, mind you the people keeping the witch there are the same ones that put it there so I can only assume they are still as deluded as they always were. When I phoned the dying ducks Lilley office the other week, his staff clearly believed the ALP was absolutely 110% guaranteed to get up again 'due to the wonderful policies that everyone is in raptures about' Hullo !! As for my point about the retirement perks, note that if she is voted out while PM, she gets something like double what she'd get as the backbencher she would be with Kevvy steering the ship. Surely you aren't suggesting more than a few million difference wouldn't be a significant motivator to an avaricious failed lawyer ?? GoAnna the Blight thought it worth subjecting Queensland to a by-election over exactly the same issue albeit much less money in dollar terms as a premier vs a PM.

I can feel it in the air.

P,

I don't believe Juliar will step down, and given Krudd's preconditions, I don't see many Labor pollies eating crow and grovelling to KRudd.

There still is a chance of a caucus revolt which chucks her out of office. Self interest of the Labor MPs in marginal seats is not to be discounted.

If in the service of this country, Gillard is dumped.
Abbott would be too.
Just think.
From such a badly confused parliament, comes a far better country.

Belly

For once I agree with you ... could we possibly dare hope that both the slimeballs fall off the earth quickly ??

Belly,

Abbott dumped because Juliar is?

Wishful thinking I am afraid. Abbott is very popular within the libs.

There is already the first drop of blood on the carpet.

Rudd is PM.

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGHHHHHH!!

( :>(

Yippee!!

Yeah yippee, our wortht-ever PM hath returneth to again impothe hith wrath on the Authralian peoplth!

For the first time, Abbott is actually looking like the better option!

The answer to the thread's question When will Julia step down? is Never.

Rudd had to drag her kicking and screaming to the gallows.

I am interesting in seeing what happens to KRudd when his usefulness as Labor's sock puppet expires after the election.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig!