As everyone would be well aware, I've been interested in the issues surrounding the vast social change that has occurred over the past couple of generations for quite a while, especially the way the relationship between the sexes has become so devalued and what has driven women to want to reject stable relationships based on a mutuality of interest and respect in favour of an abstract concept of independence, when it was clear that this was not a better way to live life and required great investment from the state to support it. The justifications didn't gel with my own knowledge of human behaviours and the denigration of men completely unnecessary. This wasn't personal, it was a wholesale rejection of men in every aspect of life. I've written a lot about it, trying to understand how and why this has been driven and I've come up with a lot of ideas, but no real understanding.

I know that it was driven deliberately as a means of increasing consumerism, but I have no idea why it was successful or why men have been so passive in accepting the abuse and the loss of opportunity and social approval.

So I've enrolled to do a Bachelor of Psychology, hoping to learn more about the social psychology that has driven the individual responses in both men and women, among other things.

I start next month. Wish me luck!

How sad.

Why would anyone seek “answers” from an institution such as Universities who don’t even understand the “questions?

Why don’t you just read Max Weber and save yourself heaps of money and liberate some personal time for rehab.

Good luck, you will have to be very strong to avoid becoming contaminated.

Do remember, if you want to avoid spending the entire tine is a "sent to Coventry" silence, do avoid asking questions based on common sense. That is one thing that is most definitely not permitted in any humanities subject.

Excellent, Anti - that you are doing something to further your understanding of subjects that interest you.

Mature-age students take something extra to higher learning, and are not usually led by the nose as are the younger generation.

Regarding spindoc's friendly directive....that's the sort of advice one would expect from those who believe that posting and gleaning opinions from opinion sites is the apex of information dissemination and deeper understanding in (our) culture.

I'm one who thinks the modern Western paradigm is finite regarding gender roles. The thing is that we're not androgynous, even as we pretend we are for the benefit of consumer society.

I'm expecting a few years down the track, someone like you could illuminate our follies and maybe shine an additional light on ways to go forward.

As far as rehab goes: you're already doing it by taking control of your future.

Good luck!

I prefer to draw my own conclusions, spindoc.

At 50, I'm only just learning that there are no bad questions, only bad attitudes. Every question answered adds to understanding in some way.

Of course, if you are of the view that knowledge of the ways people interact stopped advancing in 1920, then you won't agree.

On the subject of Weber, I am not a fan. My background is in science and engineering and I am firmly of the view that empiricism and logical rationality are essential to understanding. The solipsistic interpretive approach that Weber promulgated is what has caused the problem I'm trying to understand.

get far more truth and benefit from reading the bible Antiseptic. Psychology in most universities teaches that man is inherently good and only does bad things because of environment and many other excuses. Whole premise is a lie. They also assume we came from apes (another unscientific lie). Bible tells how we got our corrupt natures, how God has dealt with it and explains heaven and hell. Psychology is really part of the problem not the answer because it is essentially dishonest.

Thanks Hasbeen and Poirot, I'm looking forward to it and a little daunted. It's a four year program and pretty academically dense.

I was very encouraged by the response to my enquiries. The course convenor was emphatic that I should enrol, because of my background in the physical sciences and possibly my age and gender. He made a cryptic reference to "people who can write", so he may have seen some of the stuff I've published elsewhere under my own name if he did a google search. At least it didn't scare him off!

I suspect that the student body is disproportionately female and young, which is fine in itself, but doesn't reflect the demographics of those in need of mental health services and they are probably not bringing a lot of experiential knowledge to frame their understanding of the topic.

I'm not too interested in clinical practice, more in academic social research, but I guess they inform each other.

I'm not sure if I need rehab or a refurb, but in the meantime I'm still getting older at one day per day.

Dear Antiseptic,

Now that is exciting news and Congratulations.
I wish you every possible success.

I was a "mature-age" student and I remember my
Graduation to this day. When they called my name
and I walked up on stage - I little voice yelled
out from the balcony - "That's MY Mum!"
The entire auditorium cheered. Quite a moment.

Anti, I also remember how nervous I was when I first
started attending classes. I thought - how will I
cope amongst all these young kids. Well, much to my
surprise I found that there was a very wide age range
and I actually fitted in very well. I also learned
so much in the process.

Anyway, once again - this is an excellent thing you're
doing - you'll never regret it, and again I wish you
all the best and kudos to you.

Big hug.

Yes good luck to you Antiseptic, although I hope you know how tough it will be?
When do you start?

I did a psychology subject, amongst the other medical subjects, when I went back to Uni in my early 30's.

Psychology didn't provide as much answers as it did questions, but it was very interesting. I found myself thinking...'is that me?'...when reading about some disorders.
Although, maybe that is purely a nurse thing.

In any case, it will do you good to mix with all those supposedly many 'feminists' at the Uni : )
What on earth will academic-hating Individual say? Lol!

Thanks Lexi. Since I'm an arrogant so-and-so, I'm more concerned for how they'll fit in with me! I'm only half-joking...

Actually, I'm really quite excited. I've got a lot of ideas I want to test and the only way to do that is by acquiring the skills and credentials to allow me access to the resources that make it possible.

I think Poirot is absolutely correct in what she said about the current gender relations model. Lots of people are starting to realise that their life isn't all it's cracked up to be and that will accelerate rapidly as the subsidies dry up. I think of it as a chemical process. It takes a lot of energy to break a stable bond and it takes a lot more energy to keep the atoms separated. Social energy is in the form of money and that's running out.

There are going to be a lot of unhappy people over the next few years.

Suse, thanks. I'm sure it'll be interesting. The thing about learning is that it should inspire questions, which then require more learning to answer.

Fortunately, I enjoy learning and I have a framework that I can fit the new knowledge into that should help.

My only real concern is financial. I've informed my boss and he is receptive to cutting back my hours to suit, but it may not be reasonable in the context of business needs, so I might be left a bit short for a while. Time will tell.

I'll try not to do too much feminist-baiting. I think the poor things will be sufficiently traumatised by my presence and I wouldn't want them to suffer any mental health problems.

Great news! You'll meet a lot of people who think they have all the answers. Some of them will be students; others will be lecturers and tutors. You'll have the advantage of age and experience, but if you're ever daunted by what they say and do (or how they treat you), remember that intelligent people can see through their bluffing. As a first-year law student, terrified of all those who seemed to know so much more than me, I received some encouraging words from a kind tutor. She reminded me that, as these people were studying the same courses as me, they didn't necessarily know what they were talking about. They just talked in order to fill silence.

Oh, and ignore the precocious twits who roll their eyes every time you (a mature-aged student) ask a question. I was one of them, and wish I'd listened to the questions and answers more carefully. I did just fine in my studies, but I've learnt as I have grown older that my seniors are much more experienced in formulating insightful questions that get the answers we all need. You're paying enough for your studies, so you certainly deserve answers to your questions.

I hope you're as lucky as I was Antiseptic.

I left to go fly fighters, & came back after flying. Back then you had to pay up front, then keep yourself. The first bit was OK, but I was running out of money. I had previous credits, & some from my navy training, & needed what was usually about 18 months to do. They let me cram that into a year.

Every time things got tight, I always found something someone wanted done, that gave me another couple of months living. I was always looking, & some how something always turned up.

One of them became permanent as soon as I had finished, & then grew into something much better quite quickly. So my advice is keep your eyes open, & things seem to work out.

Antiseptic, I hope that goes well for you.

I had to go back and check to see who had posted a comment on the Man Therapy thread re the inability of people in the industry to relate to a lot of men http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5833#163800 but it was Houellebecq not you.

A point I agree with so I hope you can eventually make a difference.

R0bert

Anti, go for it, I am a water leveler by trade, but I got a psyche degree well over a decade ago when I became a philosophy devotee.

What you will find is that there is not a great deal of revelation in the syllabus but more so a revelation of cause and effect focusing on rationalization. The study of urges, drives and outcomes is how I described it in one of my assignments. Good luck, you will do well.

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. R0bert, I am convinced that there is a recognition of the need for a better understanding of the way social dynamics impact men's mental state and that the profession is well aware that it needs more male insights from outside the academy to be brought inside. I'm reading a lot into it, but the response from the department was much stronger than I expected and my name was already known to the course convenor for some reason I didn't go into. Perhaps QTAC passes details to the institutions preferenced?

In any case, I hope to be able to make some sense of it all and hopefully make some difference.

sog, I would like to be able to add some genuinely quantitative empiricism to my qualitative observations and get some proper understanding of the relative importance of different factors. Rationality is my preferred mode, as you may have noticed, but it can only work with premises that are correct or it reduces to rationalism and solipsism. That may yield interesting insights, but it's not going to yield solutions that are reliably useful and it can lead to seriously non-linear outcomes.

Antiseptic,

Hearty congratulations and go for it.

Do buy an older sportscar. Open, what other sort is there?

Get buffed up by a decent hairdresser and a few good casual outfits.

Then lie back and think of whatever you like while the SYTs (Sweet Young Things) educate you. Take them to the theatre or to an arty happening somewhere and never set foot in a pub.

Positive goals, enjoy the young minds and become one, smell the roses and a personal reward no matter how small each and every day.

Hmmmm, did I mention the very pleasant and stimulating SYTs to be found at the uni tennis clubs?

Antiseptic,

Sorry to post twice.

I should have mentioned the value of a unit or few of English literature. The big questions we struggle with in life are not new. Even if you don't want to pick up such units try to work your way through the reading lists of English honours students. You will not regret it.

I rarely read for pleasure anymore, I must admit, but I used to be voracious. Literature, science fiction, historic romances, modern novels and especially short stories.

I just sort of lost interest when I realised I could get pretty close to the story arc after the first chapter or so. I think there may be a critical information density which lets us start integrating the data and arrive at new insights. It certainly seems to me that my ability to see patterns in apparently disparate data has become much more highly tuned over the last 5 years or so and I sometimes find myself writing or saying things that I haven't consciously considered, but that make sense when I do, sometimes in ways I find a little surprising or draw on things I had forgotten I knew. The subconscious can do amazing things

I'm certainly willing to take your advice on the SYT front. When I was last at uni I was doing science and the absence of SYTs was very evident. Evidently I should have done humanities.

Antiseptic,

Good luck with the uni. I am sure you will do well with purpose and life experience.

Thanks Chris, it will be great fun trying, anyway.

Antiseptic>> but it can only work with premises that are correct or it reduces to rationalism and solipsism.
but it's not going to yield solutions that are reliably useful and it can lead to seriously non-linear outcomes.<<

Indy, non linear outcomes and primate behavioral anomalies run hand in hand as you know.
Because of that truism psychology is the most fascinating science for me. Unlike physics and other unequivocal subjects the way we administer our “free will” is the primary factor to outcomes in psychological prognostications.

Plato was the first to formally declare that our “soul” is a trinity, containing an impulsive/instinctive driver, an emotional driver and an intellectual driver and they all resided in different parts of the body rather than our brain. He further tendered that the proportional mix of these drivers determined an individual’s personality.

Indy it’s a bloody great subject, just wait till you get to intrigueing stuff such as the “inoculation effect” and “fugue states ”.....I wish I was doing the syllabus again. If you need some input during your course, start a thread, there must be other psyche majors on OLO ready to help out.

Antiseptic, I referred to you as Indy rather than Anti......psychological slip.

Lexi>> I was a "mature-age" student and I remember my
Graduation to this day... little voice yelled
out from the balcony - "That's MY Mum!" <<

Probably the most pertinent thought evoked from the floor or the dais.

Lexi my campus belle, I was a secondary to tertiary student and a mature age student but I didn’t get to either of the graduations. The first graduation found me working for BHP in the back blocks of WA. The second found me working in NZ.

In saying that, I have been to numerous graduations over the past thirty years; Quentin Bryce was the chief dignitary at the last I attended just before Xmas. To see the kids full of hope and ambition more than compensates for having to digest the carefully couched rhetoric of some academics and their guests.

A positive aspect I noted over the years is the acknowledgement to our first Aussies at the beginning of proceedings these days.

Dear SOG,

I'm sorry you missed out on your Graduation.
I wanted my family there to share mine with me.
Especially the kids. It was a memorable moment
on the day. But then I've got to say - so was the
entire experience of studying. I learned so much
from it - perhaps because it was the right time for
me, being a mature-age student and wanting to do it,
and not being pressured by parents as I had been
earlier. I got a lot out of it. And I know that
Anti - will do really well. It makes a difference
when its something you really want to do.

Dear Antiseptic,

Congratulations and all the best on the degree. My daughter is currently doing her second year in the same discipline after coming straight from high school.

She has found no problems with mature age students except for one lady in her tutorials who really drives her batty. This person is highly opinionated and strives to assert that opinion at every occasion, so much so that my daughter has missed a couple of sessions because of her. It is not that opinions shouldn't be expressed, forcefully on occasion, but being a mature woman I think there is a natural deference afforded her, not only by fellow students but also by the tutor who is relatively young as well. It is often difficult for a young person to challenge or to impart/impose their views in such a setting.

I think there are two things worth remembering; if there are 10 in a tutorial then ideally 10% of the time is legitimately yours, the rest is only to be taken by the grace of the others. The other is that the thoughts and opinions of the young are really worth listening to. Wisdom is not eternal and fixed. Their truths are different to ours and if you open yourself to them I think your experience of university will be greatly enhanced.

Meanwhile I have had a great time helping my daughter collect her thoughts on her psychology assignments, and proofing the work she has done. She, as daughters tend to do at that age, often takes a contrary position to mine, but defending it helps her line her arguments up. Her philosophy elective has been particularly fun.

All the best.

Thanks csteele, I take your point.

Unfortunately it's something I need to work on, even with my own kids. I have a tendency to lecture which overrides my ability to listen, so I'm working hard to overcome that.

I wish your daughter (and you) well with her studies. It would be nice if my own kids were academically interested, but neither of them are.

Antiseptic, "I have a tendency to lecture which overrides my ability to listen"

Heh, heh, that is not uncommon in men. We are inclined to interpret a difference, unknown quantity or complaint as a problem to be solved.

You are going to have to awaken the feminine in you and see the goal as listening and empathising -well, sort of, just keep confirming sympathy and empathy while waiting for a chance to whinge yourself. Here you go for instruction, Sybil "Oh, I knowwww",

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPtIHwbguO4

csteele,
Nonetheless, your point was well made and it is pleasing that your relationship with your daughter is sound enough that she discussed her student experiences with you. Well done.

Is it too late to back out? I hope they have counselling services...

Yeah, my first response to any problem is to try to solve it. It sometimes drives my kids nuts, because I keep asking questions as I come across things that need clarification as I reason my way through it.

Apparently, judging from a comment on another thread, it makes some other people uncomfortable too. Never mind, I'm sure that I'll find out all about it.

Antiseptic,

May I add my congratulations also.

Four pieces of advice.

Never be intimidated by your lecturers.

Be confident in yourself.

If you have a question you need answering, persist until you get the answer.

If something doesn't resonate with you, challenge the lecturer or text.

Danielle, thank you.

I have to say I feel no sense of intimidation. Mostly expectation. The subject interests me and I hope to learn a lot.

This is a chance to study some fundamental aspects of being human. What a great opportunity!

My biggest problem will be keeping my mouth shut and my ears open, but I'll do my best.

Antiseptic,

You will be very welcome - especially as you are one to talk and debate. So very many in academia complain that students in tutorials sit mute like shags on a rock.

Anti
I have just seen this thread. I wish you all the best and am sure you would make an interesting addition to the group. There are many mature age students at uni now so you may find you are not alone.

Homogeneity is boring and I am sure you will do fine. Don't forget to look at the reasons why men may choose to break the pair bonds as well as there may be cross-over experiences. We are really not all that different and there is always that nagging question of nature vs nuture. Even the psychologyists are still pondering that one. :)

Good luck with the course.

Thanks Pelican,

I'm sure I'll be in good company, whatever age it happens to be. The thing is that it'll be something I'm doing for the right reasons, so all I want to do is soak up whatever I can.

An advantage of age is experience, which gives a framework to evaluate things against. It might also be a problem, if it prevents new ideas getting in, so I've got to be very open to hearing things that conflict with my own understandings.

Danielle, I'll argue anyone's ear off who'll sit still long enough. I hope the uni's ready.