Surely the fair work commission would have had the brains to at least wait until the economic information was released, before placing even more preasure on an already shrinking economy, especially given the slow down in the mining industry, the driving force of our economy.

Total economic vandalism from yet another out of touch body, fueled by an even more out of touch union movement.

So I guess the big question is, will we see wages fall now?

The next thing on their (unions) agenda will be their much pushed for HUGE 33.3% increase in super, of cause, in leu of a wage rise. Yea right!

What a joke!

One saving grace is the wicked redheaded witch will not be in power to rubber stamp the continuing demise of Australia, due to political incompetence.

The evil you know is better than the evil you don't know.
With regard to the present Labor group this statement is wrong.

The sooner they go the better.

Why would you want wages to fall. Why should wages of the lowest paid fall while those at the middle to high end continue to enjoy salary rises?

How are low paid workers supposed to keep up with the cost of living?

If you are going to reduce wages at all, reduce them across the board. The largesse and greed is not at the bottom end of incomes but at the middle to upper level. With growing wage disparity the last thing any nation needs is a lower minimum wage. The welfare costs of that will end up costing all of us a lot more in the long term.

Simple maths.
If wages fall by 10 percent.
So too will the economy.
Small business will feel the brunt.
Sorry but 0nly post for me I am no fan of DILLARD but find PS offensive.

Philip S - The evil you know is better than the evil you don't know.
With regard to the present Labor group this statement is wrong.

Presumably you don't live in Queensland, otherwise you might just have a different view. We had no option but to get rid of GoAnna the Blight, but I'm not aware of one resident of Queensland who hasn't had the despairing thought 'what have we done'. Maybe if we'd had the foresight to not give General Disaster such a massive majority ..........

pelican - Why would you want wages to fall. Why should wages of the lowest paid fall while those at the middle to high end continue to enjoy salary rises?

Thats EXACTLY the point. Standing from a distance, its quite clear that worker wages are such that many industries are unviable. On the other hand, cost of living is such that many if not most workers are doing it very hard. Whilst I fully support incentives where they are due & warranted, crazy renumeration for unproductive snouts needs to be addressed as a matter of priority. How is another question. The exponential increase in gubmunt charges doesn't help, especially considering what we pay elected officials.

Pelican something has to give.

We are on our way to the Mediterranean but only their problems, if we keep going as we are.

Government is all ready spending money it can't raise, & keeps promising more spending.

Companies can not make a profit with current wage rates, unless they have something special like the mining boom supporting them. Manufacturing of domestic use products is gone or going.

Workers can barely live at all, let alone comfortably on their income, after government has ripped almost half of it off them, one way or another. Higher GST anyone?

Sooner or later government particularly has to pull it's head in, & stop trying to keep almost half the population in comfort, off the other half, who are struggling. The buying of votes has to stop. Those weho work in productive industries should be at least a little better off than those receiving welfare.

We really only have two choices. Reduce the government payroll including all levels of education, health, bureaucracy & welfare by 50% or more, or start harvesting the oil under coastal central Queensland & the Great Barrier Reef, & in our shale deposits.

Without one or the other, here comes your Mediterranean holiday, from work at least.

Hasbeen - here comes your Mediterranean holiday, from work at least.

I don't necessarily agree with the finer points of all your steps however the end result is inevitable

If wages fall by 10 percent.
So too will the economy.
Belly,
That's old hat thinking. Just think those top bureaucrats dropping 30 - 50 Grand a year how quickly that would fill the coffers. Drop any wage above 150 Grand by 10% and anything down to 40 Grand by 5% & you'll have an economy screaming in top gear.

individual - That's old hat thinking. Just think those top bureaucrats dropping 30 - 50 Grand a year how quickly that would fill the coffers. Drop any wage above 150 Grand by 10% and anything down to 40 Grand by 5% & you'll have an economy screaming in top gear.

There is no excuse for *ANY** bureaucrat being paid over $100,000. That level of income should be restricted to medical specialists, high ranking military officers and stuff-all others on the public teat. Anyone who don't like it can always go get that much higher paid private sector job they continually crap on about.

Ok, so wages can go up, but not down.

So how is that fair?

It's an economic fact that a higher minimum wage creates a higher level of economic efficiency. People are simply expected to do more for the money they are paid and employers are more likely to invest in improving staff skills and productivity.

The only people who want to reduce wages are those big businesses who employ people in "dead-end jobs" because it improves their bottom line in the easiest way possible.

Over the last 15 years the number of people employed in high-skill occupations (ABS classifications “managers” “professionals”. “technical and trade workers” and “community and personal service workers”) has grown by 2.3 million or 52 per cent, while the number of people in lesser-skill occupations (“clerical and administrative workers”, sales workers”, “machinery operators and drivers” and “labourers”) has risen by only 0.8 million or 20 per cent.

The workforce is changing, a point clearly acknowledged by the commission, when it observed that the proportion of workers described as “award reliant” has fallen from 23 per cent to 16 per cent since 2000, and that non-award incomes were running well ahead of award incomes.

The ACCI seems to be locked into an early nineteenth-century model of class struggle, which divides between “bosses” and “workers” with antagonistic interests.

So, my back woods butcher, how are you going to do when 90% of your customers can afford nothing more than sausage mince?
Or would you prefer to reduce wages to the point where us peasants have to give up meat altogether?
The exercise has been done time and time again. Smith's "invisible hand" and Reagan's trickle down economics DOESN'T WORK.
The one single thing Aus Labor got right (under Rudd) was to stimulate our economy from the bottom up; giving money to those who had little choice but to spend it straight back into the economy again.
Compare our success to the USA, who gave the money to the very criminals who caused the 'Great Recession' in the first place (they said "gee thanks" and "shored up their position" -gave themselves bonuses and left the rest in the vaults as increased collateral.
Which would any retailer prefer: have one billionaire walk into their shop, or a thousand ordinary people with money to spend?

wobbles - The only people who want to reduce wages are those big businesses who employ people in "dead-end jobs" because it improves their bottom line in the easiest way possible.

Unfortunately its nowhere near as simple as that. Among other issues, the still too high $AU, existing wage structure & inappropriate industries combine to render manufacturing here for the most part unviable. Reducing wages would help, however thats clearly impractical due to the steadily escalating cost of living. Fatcat salaries, particularly those awarded to totally non-productive corporate parasite CEOs are right off the planet, likewise public sector fatcat & political renumeration (what mindless lunatics approved a half million for the red-headed witch & only slightly less for the dying duck & RAbbott ??). Probably worst of all are the exponentially increasing gubmunt charges which vastly exceed cpi. The latter need to be the subject of ratepayer / taxpayer revolt.

how are you going to do when 90% of your customers can afford nothing more than sausage mince?
Grim,
It's that mentality that prevents our economy from recuperating. A slight drop in wages cost would not have a negative impact at all, it would be beneficial to all. We can not compete even amongst ourselves because of the immoral wages structure here. If the top earners reduce income & low income earners get a slight rise you will find an improving economy because of the increasing spending power of the masses. High income earners who do not produce nor employ are a hindrance as they don't spend either. It is spending that stimulates an economy not saving.

Grim, showing your ignorance again hey.

There is more profit in mince and sausages than there is in chops and steaks.

Why, simple, less wages.

If I had a shop that only sold mince and sausages, and turned over say $20K per week, I would need a mincer and an auto sausage machine, investment, $60K.

My staff would consist of One, myself.

I would by trims for lean mince at $4 per kilo, sell for say $7 and sausages would cost about $2.5 to make and sell for $5 per kilo.

Thats a gross profit of about $8000 WITH NO WAGES.

I suggest you don't pick a fight when you don't know what your talking about.

Now, if you can get off your high horse, and think about the thread, consider this.

Wages generally increase when the economy is doing well.

Well, guess what, it's contracting. And that's my point.

I'm not suggesting we slash wages, but seriously, don't you think it would have been wise for these fools to at least wait for the economic data to be released before increasing wages.

After all, we are talking about three or four DAYS. THATS ALL!

As for Rudds stimulus, not a stupid idea, just stupid implementation, as the way it was handed out led to billions being wasted.

What about price control? Fix those outrageous prices being charged in butcher shops. Butch you would be okay with that. Do bosses in butcher shops still tell new starters, ".remember to get your wages through the scales".
I went into a butcher shop the other day, the block had beef mince at an outrages $9.99 kg so I said " giv us a half kg of mince please." He hands me a bag and I hand him 5 bucks. Turn to walk out of the shop and he said "that's another 80 cents" I said " not when I went to school, mate!" Outrages overcharging in my book a 16% rip off 500 is 500 not 580 mate.

Paul1405

Your point is valid, however customers can boycott retail businesses in most cases because there are alternatives. Unfortunately they cannot boycott gubmunt departments (including local authorities) which have a monopoly & which regularly increase fees & charges many times over CPI. Probably the most obvious example of fee hikes is electricity prices. Successive gubmunts have systematically raped the state whilst doing their level best to set some of the people against another group (eg the solar power kerfuffle)

I'm currently embroiled in a matter with a local authority that has decided without any semblance of consultation to inflict 'user pays' charges on ratepayers despite all relevant services being paid for in rates payments. Seems the rates have been treated as consolidated revenue & the moment the local authority got into financial poo, they looked around for some convenient sheeple to fleece. That battle is far from over however, even the sheeple are starting to realize their elected officials are way out of order.

Queenslanders have had numerous other unnecessary costs imposed since General Disaster seized control, including MASSIVE increases in driver licence fees (like 50 times CPI), new charges in respect of renewable machinery tickets (previously untimed), etc etc, not to forget a $50,000 wage rise for the bloodsucking parasites (33% increase) when the state is supposedly so broke it can't give 2% to anyone else.

I suggest that costs like the aforementioned are probably even more significant than rising retail prices for groceries and the like. We all (well most anyway) 'need' electricity, we need to pay car registration fees, we need to renew our various licences, we need to pay local authority rates blah blah blah. When those costs are escalating daily & wages are stagnating or decreasing due to underemployment, even more pressure is placed on the hoi-polloi.

Paul, I don't know your age, however I am suggesting your not a young fella.

Now I ask you to cast your mind back to the year 1977. That's when I first started my apprenticeship as a butcher.

Mince, that same mince you are complaining about paying $9.99/ kilo cost about $3.99/kilo back then.

This blows holes in your theory of overbthe top butcher shop prices.

That same year petrol was about 19 cents per letre.

If only our cars run on food, we would now be saving a fortune.

Go back ten years ago, you could buy a whole rump for $5.99 kilo.

Today, you can still buy a whole rump for $5.99/ kilo, difference being, the costs of providing that whole rump have increased enormously and the profit margin is all but zero.

While the service industry can charge what ever they choose, food is, and will always be a product that is sold at a negotiable price.

As for your over charged mince, you actually received 580 grams when you asked for 500 grams.

My policy was to always tell the customer if it was over, and ask if that was ok.

As for adding weight on the scales, it's impossible with modern day scales, as they are too sensitive, unless you buy pre packaged goods.

While there are still some rougues out there, the majority are the discounted shops, with the likes of the Vic markets being a prime example.

Having been there recently, it still amazes me with the amount of substitution tha goes on, and the fact that shoppers still get sucked in.

Prax we are, without doubt, way over regulated, no more so than in our tourism industry, where doing the simple things that we used to do, are now more often than not, illegal.

Meanwhile, countries without the nanny state approach are flogging us to death here.

A DD election, getting rid of the greens out of the senate will be one huge step in the right direction, as they are poison and he'll bent on shutting us down in many areas.

rehctub - we are, without doubt, way over regulated, no more so than in our tourism industry, where doing the simple things that we used to do, are now more often than not, illegal.

Hard to find fault with that statement, but then given the voracious hunger for power & control by those we appoint to run stuff without demanding proper checks & balances, isn't much of the fault with the people / sheeple ?? I keep harking back to the situation in Queensland because without an opposition of consequence, no upper house and a perpetually AWOL governor, what can we do to bring General Disaster to heel ?? As far as the federal scene is concerned, we are marginally better off (well hopefully so if there is an opposition left after September) with an upper house, same goes for the governor-general however, there is no indication she would jump on an out of order government and risk the flack that descended on Kerr.

.....Simple maths.
If wages fall by 10 percent.
So too will the economy.
Small business will feel the brunt.
Sorry but 0nly post for me I am no fan of DILLARD but find PS offensive.

Great news Belly, as I assume this means despite all the negativity of late about our economy detracting, it's actually going to increase by about 3.6%.

Thanks for the heads up!

Some good comments above.

My real beef is that many people look to the poorest paid workers to bear the brunt of the burden of competition and globalisation. If we are to be competitive, wages should fall across all sectors to ensure that the quality of life for all people are preserved.

It will also have a positive impact on prices. Australia is at very real risk of losing it's industrial base. And it has nothing to do with higher wages. It is completely to do with playing into the free trade game which benefits a minority of the population and exploits cheap labour in the developing world.

The real problem is greed. Greed of consumers to want to continually pay cheaper prices (even if only perceived) on the back of exploitation, greed of big corporations to exploit cheap labour and charge the same prices to their richer consumers back home (happens with all designer label products), greed of governments currying favour with the corporates for donations and support at election time.

Reducing worker wages whilst cost of living is increasing infinitely faster than CPI simply isn't on. Politicians expecting 33% increases when they claim the country can't afford 2% for others would be the trigger for a revolution in 'funny' countries, unfortunately we are too civilized here.

Politicians' hypocrisy regarding wages is hardly new. Fraser famously told us to tighten our belts and “y'know, life wasn't meant to be easy” when rejecting an ACTU claim for a 4% wage claim, while in the same month approving a 9% wage hike for himself and his mates.
This thread is essentially about the rationale for Globalisation; the problem of separating producers (who Retchtub and his ilk want to keep poor, in order to keep prices down) from consumers, who need sufficient income to buy things and support the retail sector.
Globalisation makes this easy. Buy from countries with lower standards of living (lower wages) and sell to -relatively- rich consumers.
The fatal flaw, of course, is that to become rich you need to produce something. Japan provides stark evidence for the weakness of the Global scam.
As Pelican points out, the problem is Greed; -and it certainly isn't wage earners who exhibit the most egregious levels.
Witness butchers who can make $400k a year from selling the poorest and cheapest quality meat, without even having to employ anyone.
Retchtub, you do know the Sheriff of Nottingham wasn't the hero of the piece, don't you?
Meanwhile, back at the farm... Heavy steers today are struggling to make 200cents a kilo. In 1991, I was selling heavy mixed breed steers for 240cents/kilo.
I guess we can't blame butchers wages, since ol' mate doesn't need any to make as much money as doctors, or even politicians do.

I think the question we always need to ask ourselves is: “then what?”
We give our money for cheap goods “made in Japan” which makes them rich and us incapable of supporting a domestic manufacturing industry.
Then what?
We swap to buying cheap goods from China.
Then what?
We do away with government oversight and regulation; say of the banking industry. Then what?
The Great Recession of '08.
We make wages as flexible as prices. When the economy contracts, lower wages. Then what?
The Great Depression.
We curb the power of the unions. Then what?
We witness the greatest acceleration of salary increases for the bosses, while workers wages stagnate; the gap between the richest and poorest grows to the highest levels ever.
Retchtub needs to count how many wage earners are behind his counter, then count how many are in front of his counter, then ask himself seriously whether he -and every other retailer- wants wage earners to have less money.

Put your spurs away Grim, my example was nothing more than a hypothetical.

In any case, gross profit is BEFORE EXPENSES.

Heavy steers.

If you have been involved in the industry, you will understand the volatility of it, as your 240 cents on 91, fell to as low as 49 cents around 95/96.

The problem with this crash is that it has been manufactured by labor's incompetence and gross knee jerk reaction to a television program, one that may well have been a set up at that.

Labors next solution is to build abbs and process here, then send the boxed beef to the likes of Indonesia.

Dream on I say, because even the floor sweepers are on $20 an hour.

The whole wage balance has been thrown out by mining, as miners are on unrealistic wages, and these wage rates and conditions filter down the line.

You know you have a problem when a safety officer, having obtained training, often over the net, can earn $200,000 per year, yet a policeman, serving and protecting the public, often putting their lives on the line, are on less than half of that.

Once mining retracts, wages will get a huge shake up and labor and the unions won't be there to interfere in the negotiations between two grown adults.

However, this thread is about wages, and why they can't come down, when growth slows, as it has