It would be troubling enough if Tony Abbott's shilly-shallying on electoral reform had merely killed off hopes of making overdue changes to the nation's electoral laws.

But it has shredded his credibility too. Credibility he had steadily rebuilt since admitting to routinely gilding the lily, to not always telling the ''Gospel'' truth unless he was delivering scripted comments.

The package was never going to be popular, particularly because it was headlined by a massive $20-million-a-year allocation of public funding to the major political parties via a $1 per vote formula.

The Liberal leader's failings on the collapse of this supposedly bipartisan package, are manifold.

First, his office claimed that the opposition had not seen the legislation. It also was less than upfront on the level and finality of the agreement. Abbott himself then reneged on a written agreement. And finally, if these integrity issues are not enough to raise voter doubts in someone who within months could be prime minister, he revealed himself as a shallow populist.

Since news of the ''secretly'' negotiated agreement was announced at the beginning of the week, Abbott's office has misled and obfuscated.

As the public backlash grew, and as MPs on all sides grumbled at the optics of politicians voting themselves money in the aftermath of a harsh budget, the Coalition deliberately went missing.

By Wednesday evening, with Liberal and Nationals MPs threatening open revolt, Abbott's office was already preparing to walk away despite assurances from the government that the agreement would hold.

This whole affair has shown politics at its worst.

A secret deal between sworn enemies, bound together by financial self interest, is a woeful look.

The fact that the alternative prime minister openly pretended to be uninvolved, and then simply reneged on a signed agreement, raises genuine questions of trust and reliability.

But perhaps the most troubling lesson from the whole tawdry affair, is what it says about Abbott's unpreparedness to argue for unpopular reforms, should he become prime minister.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/doubledealing-reveals-abbotts-failings-20130530-2ndhc.html#ixzz2Ul2yTkXX

I agree Praxidice.
The whole sorry tale smells of politicians from both sides agreeing to feather their own nests, and then denying it has happened.

If people think they are going to get a more 'honest' Prime Minister in the holy Abbott, then they will be sadly disappointed ...

Suseonline

When added to his utterly deplorable conduct in the One Nation affair, we have a clear indication of his moral standards. Two failed lawyers / failed priests & both are bottom-feeding grubs. is it any wonder people look at the RAbbott and Slippery Pete and claim christians are two-faced. Certain others here have asked me why I don't want to support either the ALP or the LNP, it should be perfectly obvious now.

Abbott said:

''Look there is an argument for public funding. There is an argument it would make political parties less dependent upon donations that may not always be made for entirely altruistic reasons.''

Absolutely right. However, as Larissa Waters pointed out; no attempt has been made to address corporate donations, which just makes a complete mockery of the proposed whacking great increase in public funding for political parties.

So now Abbott has admitted that the corporate donations regime is dodgy, and yet he will never move to fix it, will he.

Hey, both the ALP and LNP are rotten!

I can’t possibly vote for either. And that means not voting for anyone because, as I keep saying; the compulsory preferential voting system will STEAL my vote and make it count for a party that I wish to specifically vote against!!

Now, if Abbott or Gillard were to ‘collude’ in order to fix this despicable antidemocratic voting system, and to genuinely address corporate donations, then I might be able to gain just a tiny bit of respect for them.

"A secret deal between sworn enemies, bound together by financial self interest, is a woeful look."
The ALP and Conservative Parties, sworn enemies? I think not, sure, up front there appears to be "hostility" between the two, but that is nothing more than a manifestation of our adversarial political system. There is little in the way of any philosophical difference, more a divergence of emphases as to the best way to achieve similar outcomes.
Even my party The Greens is not that far removed from the big two, not wishing to overturn or replace what exists with another system, more or less arguing where to apply emphases to obtain a certain conclusion. The desire of those in power in Australia is to maintain the status quo, supporting and respecting the democratic process as defined by our practices and institutions.
I expect little change regardless of the outcome of the election in September.

http://australianpolitics.com/democracy-and-politics/key-terms/liberal-democracy

Ludwig - Now, if Abbott or Gillard were to ‘collude’ in order to fix this despicable antidemocratic voting system, and to genuinely address corporate donations, then I might be able to gain just a tiny bit of respect for them.

As Claude Greengrass is wont to say in Heartbeat, 'pigs might' :)

I'm hoping that the minor parties figure out a distribution of preferences that doesn't benefit either the ALP or the LNP. Obviously it will mean numbering every single box on the ballot paper, but I've always done that anyway. More importantly, will enough sheeple twig to the demonstrated abysmal lack of ethics on the part of both major parties & put in the effort to avoid giving them preferences ??

Paul1405 - There is little in the way of any philosophical difference, more a divergence of emphases as to the best way to achieve similar outcomes.

Yeah, like lining ones pockets whilst keeping the snout firmly lodged in the feeding trough and at the same time not falling off the gravy-train !!

The desire of those in power in Australia is to maintain the status quo, supporting and respecting the democratic process as defined by our practices and institutions.

It would be far more correct to say 'blatantly manipulating the so-called democratic purpose for personal gain'

Praxidice, you can’t avoid giving one of the two Laborials your preferences…. unless there is actually a third entity which is genuinely in the competition and can win more votes than one or both of these dinosaurs!

You have to number every square or else your vote is voided, even if your intention is perfectly obvious!

The vast majority of the time, the thing that counts the most about your vote is which of the Liblabs you put higher on your ballot paper. Even if you put them last and second last, your vote will in most cases filter down and count for the one you put second last.

We need the optional preferential system to be installed at the federal level. This system accurately represents the wishes of the voters. Qld and NSW use it. It works perfectly well.

The compulsory preferential voting system really does amount to disgusting collusion between the big parties. It works against the smaller parties, against political diversity and evolution…. and totally against democracy!

You people astound me.

What do you expect if you vote for minor parties & independents?

What did voting for minor parties & independents do last time?

Gave us this bl00dy mess in Canberra right now.

I suggest you take a very careful look at your selves, & what you want, before you vote.

If you want to go bankrupt, be over run with gate crashing boat people, & have neither mining or manufacturing to employ the population, voting any way that could possibly end up with the red head still in the lodge is just the way to go.

Yes you won't get much good coming from Canberra, but at least you could try to minimize the damage. So just keep on as you are talking, & total catastrophe is probably just around the corner.

Dear Prax.,

I can't help wondering what's happened to Mr Abbott.
He's not the same man we saw last year. It's as if
someone's done a "make-over." But it's not succeeding
very well. Instead of coming across as a future leader
He's coming across as a bit of a "namby-pamby."
A "wus." Someone who simply does not present well.
Give us the "bared knuckle" fighter. This new image is
not an improvement.

Perhaps he's not well? He certainly is not as self-assured
as he once was. Can't help wondering if there's any internal
strife going on in the Party. Politics is a dirty business.

So um Hazza, who do you suggest we should vote for??

Surely you are not suggesting that we should all vote for Abbott….. are you??!!??

Lexi

Dunno about the RAbbott, judging from his stuff-up with the electoral funding business, one would almost think he's got early alzheimers. I don't believe the bared knuckle stuff was real, maybe just some weird aberration of the lawyer / priest background. As for dirty business, nothing unusual about that in the political circus. I have heard from an impeccable source that he's been seen several times schmoozing with the red-headed witch, could have been just the funding stuff or could be anything, but I get a whiff of something fishy that isn't seafood. I've even tossed around the idea of giving the ALP a slightly higher number on the ballot paper than the LNP. Whilst I don't have any time for either ALP or LNP, I can't abide the thought of the RAbbott getting a General Disaster style majority. Torpedoing One Nation was despicable in itself, but now we have the funding fiasco and the bunch of associated obfuscations. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Yes Luddy, I sure am.

Voting for the cowboy hat or the mining magnate is not on. Neither of them are likely to get enough votes to do more than spoil.

Voting independent is what gave us the current mess. Can you imagine a parliament with a dozen of those egotistical idiots & Gillard. God help us!

Voting Green is like cutting your own throat. They are such twits they would have us starving, bankrupt, & over run with illegal boat people before they knew what was happening, & probably would be happy with that result anyway.

Voting Labor, apart from pleasing Belly would be no better than green really. You would have a very dumb tail wagging a totally incompetent dog, & that horrible woman still degrading our TV viewing. I expect she'll disappear after she looses, I'm sure she wouldn't want to downgrade her pension.

So mate, Abbott is the ONLY choice. Pity Barnaby is in the wrong party. Another 3 years of this bunch & half of us will be eating bread & dripping, & that will be the 3 day old bread I currently get for the horses.

praxidice I like you went to the trouble of voting below the line to give Pauline a go. I was sorry quite quickly. Even at state level the party was a rabble, & did more harm than good. Hell I think it is a toss up which is the worst we've had, One Nation or the Greens. Time to bury the hatchet, & do what is best for our kids future. Cutting off your own nose is a grand gesture, but a bloody silly one.

Just in passing, you wouldn't be Pauline would you? Nah not practical enough, when I think about it.

Dear Prax.,

So who to vote for?

Suggestions would be most welcome.

I tend to agree. Abbott will use austerity and a scorched earth policy to resolve what he sees as the problem. Abbott is locked in with large corporate interests and won't do anything radical that might upset his corporate masters.

Unless we find a new party we can trust,nothing will change.

Big Clive is the dark horse. He has bulk money & is prepared to spend it, he has assembled 39 good quality candidates in three weeks (no failed lawyers or ex-priests), he won't have any difficulty signing up the 150 by end of June, he has nothing to prove, he cannot possibly be bought off by external interests, he does not oooze sleaze like the red-headed witch & the RAbbott & unlike other contenders , he actually has a clue about business. In person he has a lot in common with Richard Branson, same kind of infectious enthusiasm, same sense of adventure, same 'who gives a rats about money' attitude, and same desire to leave the world better than he found it. Unlike the red-headed witch & the RAbbott, one doesn't feel an urge to count ones fingers immediately after shaking hands and then race off to wash away the feeling of toxic contamination. Female associates in the counselling profession tell me very few males can comprehend the 'dirty' feeling women report after being raped. That may well be true, however simply being in the same room as the red-headed witch & the RAbbott left me feeling like I should have had a long shower a week ago. They are like those uber-slimy Parramatta Road used-car salespersons except a thousand times worse.

I don't know what Tony Abbott could have been thinking, sending a note to the GG indicating his agreement to this proposed over-the-top political re-election slush-fund, without consulting with his cabinet or the party-room. Peculiar, and really somewhat out of character, even for loose-lips Tony. Thankfully he only sent the note to the GG and not to Julia.

Still, I commend him for heeding his colleagues in this matter (even if they had to hold a knife to his throat, or threaten him with a 'Turnbull' style of revolt). And I believe the public is generally pleased that Abbott put the kibosh on this ridiculously excessive free handout from the public purse - especially given the last budget projections.

Does anyone think political donations are not a reasonable measure of the mood of the electorate? No funds must surely mean no confidence?

My take is that Julia was concerned that Labor would get little financial support this time around from industry, and somewhat diminished support from the Labor rank and file, and so was looking to raid the public purse in a last ditch effort to flood the media with even more endless self-praise in the run-up to September.
We can be thankful for small mercies.

Whether you call it politicking, or belatedly getting the right 'message' from the public and the party-room, I give Abbott credit for making the right call on this issue. Better late, than too late.

As for September, I tend to agree with Hasbeen that a vote for Bob Katter's mob or Clive Palmer's can probably only result in an even more clouded and disjointed minority government than we have had to suffer these past three years.
As for the Greens, with perhaps best of intentions, I fear they have lost the plot, and may at best expect a minor and slender balance of power in the Senate.

My inclination is to give Tony Abbott a chance, because nothing could be worse than three more years of Julia.

the laborlites select Latham, Rudd and then Gillard. Gillard tells Rudd to dump carbon tax and then does a sleazy deal with Greens/Independants having lied to public. After several dudds and continous broken promises all they can come up with is abbottphobia. And this before he moves into the lodge. To think that about 30% of aussies will still vote Labour. Unbelievable. Hatred really does blind.

Arjay I'll settle for the boats stopped.

The damn fool excesses in the NBN, & don't forget that is another huge debt that is "off budget", so not counted in our debt figure.

A few welfare excesses stopped.

And a cut back in alternate energy generating stupidity planned spending.

Oh, & it would be nice if we could restore our previous still low defense spending

Hell if we can get that much we'll be way in front.

Is there any reason to regard the RAbbott as any more trustworthy than the red-headed witch given that his history suggests otherwise ?? His 'stop the boats' proposal is a poorly conceived long shot at best, his support for propping up the already moribund motor industry shows how little awareness he has of real world economics and he clearly has no better grasp of welfare than JooLIAR, dying duck & wong wun. I don't believe the NBN is necessarily the disaster some believe it is, Australia can't remain a technologically backward backwater & still expect to achieve any measure of significance. For that matter, its almost certainly too late to change horses this late in the race anyway.

We can certainly expect a scorched earth approach with a RAbbott gubmunt, most probably even more so than General Disaster has inflicted on Queensland. In both cases, ALP gubmunts responsible for re-writing the textbook on ineptitude need to be brought to task, however having witnessed the consequences of awarding a humungous majority to a dictatorship trinity & simultaneously obliterating the opposition, I'm very very wary of seeing history repeated. We still have three months til the big day so I don't see any immediate need to set things in concrete. That said, I can't at this point in time imagine any situation whereby both the ALP and he LNP will rank anywhere but the very bottom of my ballot paper.

If Newman is a prototype for federal that will be a massive improvement.

The only thing wrong with Newman was that he did not go nearly far enough with clearing out the bureaucrats. He needs to triple what he has done so far.

Can Abbott be trusted? Probably as much as you could trust anyone.

What suggests that Palmer is a pillar of honesty. From what I saw of his disillusionment with the Libs, it was not getting special person status, & having his resort plans given ministerial approval that upset him.

Now that hardly sounds like a paragon of virtue to me.

Yes most of his ideas sound good to me, but I doubt he would be very welcoming of compromise no matter how necessary. He could be a total disaster.

OMG Haz, you really ARE suggesting that we should vote for Abbott!!

OMPH! (Ohhh, my POOOR head!)

I reckon the red-headed witch, er…. I mean; the lovely Julia, is a better bet (albeit 99.8% rotten compared to Abbott's 99.9%!).

As chronic as she and her mob are, they still look decidedly better than the other mob (you could argue that 0.2% good is twice as good as 0.1%!).

Come on, Abbott not only inspires no confidence whatsoever in anything, but he constantly portrays an image of the LAST person in the universe that should ever become our PM!

Hasbeen

Newman might be an improvement on the red-headed witch (or GoAnna the Blight), but that wouldn't be a particularly difficult thing now would it ?? An awful lot of Queenslanders who voted for the clown are now wondering why they did. Unemployment is in orbit, business confidence is even lower than it was under GoAnna the Blight, costs are rocketing exponentially, his litany of lies is rapidly catching up with the red-headed witch, and there is no end of the madness in sight. Sure he didn't do a decent job on the horribly bloated public sector, but its hardly the sheeples fault that it was primarily the lower level types (who did most of what precious little work was performed) were dispensed with, retaining the ridiculously overpaid but totally non-productive management layers. Even more crazy, now Newman / Seeney / Nicholls are copping flack from the very people who should have been top of the list for termination. Duh !!

Re Big Clive, is 'could be a total disaster' as bad as 'is beyond any shadow of doubt a total disaster' ?? I suggest there can't be much doubt about applicability of the latter to GoAnna the Blight, the red-headed witch, the aptly named 'General Disaster' & the RAbbott

Luddy I reckon you're think through your stamen there. Come out of the green house & look again.

About the only thing I could think of worse than our Julia would be the Green harpies from Tasmania. There is so much hate behind those eyes I'm surprised they survive.

Apart from that we know we have a really nasty hate filled bitch, & a proven liar of massive proportion. It is even reasonable to believe, from her record, she prefers lies & cunning, to truth & honesty.

Add to this her total incompetency & the labor technique of trying to buy votes, rather than use decent policy, & there is absolutely no recommendation to vote for her.

On the other hand, we have a bloke who was once heard say global warming is cr4p. That alone is enough reason to vote for him.

Then we find he is into volunteer work in many areas. Can't be all bad. Can you imagine the red #ich doing anything where there was no quid in it for her.

I think you had better turn the temperature down in your hot house old mate, & stay out of it until after the election, I'm worried you've been overheating the grey matter.

Hasbeen

Convince your RAbbott mate to apologise for his utterly despicable actions re One Nation, his nonsensical support of the motor industry, his unprincipled support for the scandalous salary rise last year, his money-grabbing motivation re electoral funding & the numerous related porkies and his not even half-thought ideas re the boat-people issue, then 'maybe' I'll consider revising my opinion of the grub. Apart from the (very) odd fanatic, almost nobody in Australia has remotely complimentary word for the red-headed witch, nevertheless I'm halfway inclined to lean Ludwigs way, after all 99.8% crook is still MUCH better than 99.9% crook :) :) :)

Hey, there is still three months to go, both the RAbbott and the red-headed witch could get run over by a truck or something before September ..... then we can debate the respective merits of the dying duck, the wong wun, Hockey, Turnbull & probably a few more lost causes.

What I see is yet another grubby scheme that Labor tried to foist on the voters. Abbott was stupid enough to agree, but then backed out.

Considering that this bill violates the written agreement that Juliar had with the independents, Juliar's faux outrage is completely hypocritical.

Onya Shad, you can always find an out for the Mad Monk (yeah, it's OK for a future PM to be stupid) who today blames the carbon tax for Ford's closure in 2016. We've got three whole months of further exposure to his disingenuous twaddle unless he can pull off his no confidence motion.

Lucyface,

"(yeah, it's OK for a future PM to be stupid)"

Abbott's smarter than Juliar, who has made stuff up after stuff up. Juliar can't even match Abbott academically. Abbott has out played the flaming haired liar at every turn. The most popular web site for Labor MPs is now Seek.

Look forward to him being PM for a decade and being celebrated with Howard as the best PMs in decades.

Shadow Minister - Look forward to him being PM for a decade and being celebrated with Howard as the best PMs in decades.

Surely you jest, one can only hope someone convinces the f**kwit to go on a one-way trip to Alpha Centauri before September. None of us have any time for the red-headed witch but its touch and go whether her or the RAbbott is the most despicable. Now there's a thought, both the parasites could go together & I wouldn't mind a bit if they took Little Johnny as well !!

Dear praxidice,

The more you rattle on, the clearer it becomes that you should vote informal (not that your vote will make any difference anyway).
It is surely the easy way out of your predicament (since you seem to hate everyone except 'Big Clive').

Still, your postings on this subject have merit, they indicate clearly that everyone registering to vote should undertake a psychological and intelligence test to determine their suitability to hold such responsibility - since it would not be good to have psychotic morons or people with other major intellectual problems wasting their time with such menial matters as voting, would it?

Your criticism of poor old Tony (and just about everyone else) is nothing short of malignant, and mostly ill-founded.
Still, you are of course entitled to your opinion, and good luck to you.

SP,

Any low life that simply spews bile on everyone and uses swear words is called a troll. That he uses the name of a greek goddess that most commonly appears in world of warcraft shows that it is probably because he is sad and lonely, and probably gender challenged.

Hahaha Haz. And you seem to be thinking through your pistil, old mate ( :>)

.

Any thinking person, with the slightest bit of principle, has to vote ‘informal’. Or I should say; has to vote for the option of ‘no candidate deserves my vote or preferences’, which we all have the right to do!

Abbot’s going to win, with a considerable majority. But only a tiny portion of those voters are actually going to be voting for him, which makes a complete mockery of our voting system.

It would be MUCH better if we had optional preferential voting, with a formal option to vote for no candidate.

He’d still win. But at least we would get a more realistic idea of his level of support!

Even then most of those who vote for him would do it on the basis of being the slightly less horrid of the two highly despised major parties.

Ludwig - Even then most of those who vote for him would do it on the basis of being the slightly less horrid of the two highly despised major parties.

Dunno, the One Nation business was utterly despicable & the funding debacle provides even more reason to detest the RAbbott. As things are at present I'm wondering about the argument the red-headed witch is preferable at 99.8% crook whilst RAbbott is 99.9% crook doesn't have merit. In any case if its obvious coming into September that RAbbott has substantial support, I'll happily give the witch a tick to minimize the effects of a RAbbott landslide.

Ludwig - Any thinking person, with the slightest bit of principle, has to vote ‘informal’. Or I should say; has to vote for the option of ‘no candidate deserves my vote or preferences’, which we all have the right to do!

A far more transparent approach would be to have a 'none of the above' option on ballot papers, that way the will of the sheeple is unmistakable.

I can't help wondering how well would companies
survive if they were run along the lines of a
two-party system? If they had a "Management" group
and an "Opposition" group. How well would it function?

Would they spend their time arguing instead of getting
the job done?

Any thinking person with even a modicum of scruples could not vote for Labor, the party of fraud, corruption, staggering incompetence and general lying to the voters.

P, for all your feigned impartiality, you consistently only bag out the coalition. Your choice to vote labor (supposedly to prevent a liberal landslide) is no surprise, as I bet you have voted labor or green all your life.

Shadow Minister - for all your feigned impartiality, you consistently only bag out the coalition. Your choice to vote labor (supposedly to prevent a liberal landslide) is no surprise, as I bet you have voted labor or green all your life.

Blind as a bat I see, maybe you could try asking the regular labourites how many times I've use the terms 'red-headed witch' and 'JooLIAR' :) :) :)

Lexi

Some approximation of the 'party' system does exist in very big businesses in that there are teams with different objectives all competing for the same resources. As you suggest, the differing agendas are every bit as divisive as they are in the political circus. Assuming you are headed where I think you are, yes the political circus could certainly be improved, but to do so we'd need to do away with the pretend adversarial party system & to do that we'd need to handle the inevitable faux cries re 'death of democracy'. Good idea but ......

Dear prax.,

The point of my suggestion was to try to get ideas
from others as to a better political system in this
country. Because none of us seem to be too enthralled
with what's currently on offer.

How successful do you think minority groups are going to
be at the next election?

Lexi - How successful do you think minority groups are going to
be at the next election?

With three months to go its anyones race, although its difficult to see the ALP making up lost ground now. The LNP is also lurching from one disaster to another & I believe only the lack of a clear alternative has been keeping its support artificially inflated. Big Clive has a massive financial advantage over the rats & mice but we won't see the Palmer mob get up to speed til late June when he plans to have 150 candidates, that will change the rules of play considerably. According to an interview today, Big Clive thinks he'll end up with as much as 100 seats in the house & at least thirty senate seats. If that occurs, he'll take government without having to do a deal with anyone else and also control the senate. None of the rats & mice are in the same league however Katter is bound to win at least two or three in the house plus a senate place, the DLP & the CDP are likely to take another seat or two each in the house & Madigan looks to have enough support to keep his senate seat without difficulty, maybe Pauline Hanson will be a late starter & there is still a handful of also-rans that are bound to win a few more seats between them. Personally I think Big Clive will take a LOT of seats from both disaffected ALP & LNP regulars and his 100 seat projection isn't too far off the mark. Its never happened before because we've never had a third option. Even in the worst case, I can see Big Clive having enough seats in the house to have the upper hand in any coalition, more likely with rats & mice parties than the LNP since the differences of opinion between himself and the LNP heirarchy are pretty substantial.

P,

You're correct, I just did not see them. However, proposing voting for Labor after the disaster of the last 2 terms, just because they are going to lose so badly makes no sense.

Dear Prax.,

Thanks for that.

I guess it all comes down to who you want.
The party that supports big business, big money,
big media and cuts everything in sight for the
people who elected them - to make their lives
easier. Or those who have to clean up after them.

Not brain surgery.

Lexi

I don't have ANY time for either major party and couldn't imagine ever giving either a halfway 'meaningful' vote. Whatever happens, both will share the highest numerical spots on my ballot paper. my LNP member is a useless slug anyway & its never been ALP territory so its not a difficult decision to support the very switched on Palmer candidate. Both ALP & LNP leaders are full of **it, ONLY reason I'd consider placing the witch above the RAbbott is the 99.8% versus 99.9% factor. The One Nation debacle, support for humungous salary grab in 2012 & electoral funding issues put the RAbbott well into the utterly despicable slimeball category. Sure I have no love lost for JooLIAR, but even a feminist **ithead rates a fraction of a whisker higher than a despicable slimeball.

For what its worth, I see in todays Courier Mail that Pauline Hanson is joining the race. What I'd REALLY love to see is the fish & chip lady somehow getting into a position where she can stick voodoo pins in the RAbbott :) :) :) As I've noted previously, I believe we'll only see Big Clive in full flight after the end of June when his 150 candidates have been announced. We've never had a real third option before so there is nothing for comparison. What we do have is a LOT of dissatisfaction with ALP / LNP so the time could well be right for a complete change of direction.

Shadow Minister - voting for Labor after the disaster of the last 2 terms, just because they are going to lose so badly makes no sense

Given the extent of my disgust for the RAbbott, ANYONE else woulde be preferable. As I've just said in another post however, its not relevant to my local situation as the sitting LNP member is the greatest oxygen bandit that ever existed, its not an area the ALP have ever contested to date and the Palmer candidate is full of beans.

Prax,

I haven't really been following the "Big Clive" circus....

But cough! splutter! - did I read right that you quote him as surmising he'll "...end up with as much as 100 seats in the house & at least 30 senate seats..."? (which would be both hilarious and surreal to watch if it actually came about)

But it sounds like fairy land stuff to me.

Someone should stop spiking his sausage rolls......

Dear Prax.,

I like your style!

Poirot

We've never had a third option before, at least not one substantial enough to field candidates in ever house & senate seat. At the same time, we've never had such widespread dissatisfaction with the major parties. Those minor parties & independents which dared to threaten the extremely lucrative stranglehold of the ALP / LNP duopoly have been unmercifully targeted by the majors, Pauline Hanson being the obvious example but by no means the only one. The two major parties have always believed they have sole right to government and consequently there are no depths to which they won't stoop to retain control. When, as has hitherto been the case, the challenger has limited resources, its a simple matter to put them out of business. Big Clive is a horse of a completely different colour, firstly he could easily buy both the major parties several times over, secondly, unlike 99.9% of politicians & contenders, he doesn't regard money / control / consumerism / big-business as supreme Gods, thirdly, he doesn't agree with the established system of 'professional' politicians, fourthly, he abhors lobbying, fiftly, he has a fair-dinkum tried and tested approach re boat-people, sixthly, his candidates to date include **NO** lawyers, failed priests, union heavies, or for that matter any of the other parasites so beloved of the ALP & LNP. I could go on for a about the need for dramatic change to curb the present unholy rorts, whatever, blind freddie can see that sticking with the kind of thinking that landed us with the likes of the Undertaker, Little Johnnie, the KRudd, the red-headed witch, the RAbbott, Teflon Pete, GoAnna the Blight & General Disaster is akin to the definition of insanity, ie doing the same thing that never worked and expecting a different result.

>>secondly, unlike 99.9% of politicians & contenders, he doesn't regard money / control / consumerism / big-business as supreme Gods<<

Yep Poirot, we're definitely down the rabbit hole here.

Cheers,

Tony

Hey, hey, Tony Lavis : )

Prax,

Well, yes, I'm dissatisfied with the two majors...in fact, at present I'm composing a witty limerick to write on my ballot paper(s) for the entertainment of the vote counters.

However, I find it difficult to imagine that "Big Clive" is going to make the spectacular splash that he envisages. He pops up a number of months before the election, announces (with a Freudian slip of the tongue) that he wants to be Prime Minister - and what.

Do we have policies?

Can you provide them for me?

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see the two-party strangle-hold challenged "seriously" - to tickle 'em up and shake them out - but why haven't Clive's scintillating possibilities percolated down to me as yet?

I'm not feelin' the buzz.

Poirot

I understand the policy list is being formalized and will be published on the party website well before September. That said, there appears to be considerably more room to accomodate the wishes of constituents than has been the case with the political circus to date (ie a quantum move away from the traditional 'toe the party line or else'). A lot has been covered in media interviews, some of which are available on the party website. A few that come to mind are mandatory visas for boat-people or rack off hairy legs, onshore mineral processing, no lobbying, no 'professional' politicians, reduced income tax on second jobs. All candidates appointed to date have been interviewed by media & all have been 'ordinary' folk like small business operators, ex-military, etc, nary a lawyer, union heavy or failed priest.

Hell, now I'm really worried. For me to be in agreement with Poirot must mean I've got it wrong, but I'm damned if I can see where.

I mentioned earlier what happened to One Nation when they rushed around gathering up almost any one to stand candidates in as many seats as possible. They had more bad members than good, & we all know that is true.

Now I see Clive with old footballers, & Katter with an aging singer, desperately trying to get high profile candidates to help them make a show.

Well folks, what happened when Labor did the same? Yep we got a bald headed ex singer, who has proven to be actually worse than Swan, if that is possible, & is still stumbling around Canberra stuffing up what ever he touches.

Both these parties will be exactly the same, if they rush into expansion. Like one nation their hooch pooch of rushed policies will be rejected even by some of their own members, & they will make an English soccer crowd look intelligent.

Surely anyone taking into account the reason Clive split with the LNP will see him as totally self serving. There is also too much of the spoiled kid taking his bat & ball to go play by him self, shouting I'll show you, as he goes. Now I think of it, some posters here may be right at home with him.

Katter I'm sure has his heart in the right place, but is too thick to run a two up school, & will never hold any party he forms together. He would have some great policies, & some disastrous ones. Sure he could be an improvement on what we now have, at least he would be on our side, but I doubt any rushed new party would.

P, There you go again!

"Given the extent of my disgust for the RAbbott"

The only ones that are "disgusted" with Abbott are from the far left, either greens or rusted on Labor voters who suck up the propoganda from the Labor/green/Getup spin machines.

I doubt you can point out anything that TA has done that other politicians have not. Juliar has been far more deceitful, she has manipulated government bodies far more than TA, and she has a far more shady past.

Hasbeen,

It keeps happening...now I'm agreeing with you (gives me chills:)

You hit the nail on the head with "rushed new party".

It's nice to know that their policies will be with us "before the election", although probably not much before.

It does have similar feeling to the little pig that built its house of straw.

Rushing to construction with anything supposedly destined for lasting and stable value is not usually recommended.

At least Tony Abbort ( our next PM ) has the guts and good sense
to know when to dip out of an obvious ALP trap ( the "reform" of public funding of political parties electoral funding )

He shall win in a trot on 14 Sept, at last Australia will regain the good and wise federal Govt. we deserve. Mr Abbort will be ably assisted by
a very competent team of ministers of outstanding calibre e.g.

B Joyce, K Andrews, A Robb, S Morrison, B & J Bishop, S Mirabella
along with other very capable people currently in the shadow cabinet.

durmese

Lets not beat about the bush.
Tony Abbott has a credibility issue.
He tells lies, punches walls, gets in
line to compete for a vote of the Independents.
He's even admitted on national television that
he can't be trusted with the "gospel truth."
Kerry O'Brien and Leigh Sales have made him
appear foolish and contradictory.
There's so many examples of his lies. All you
have to do is Google "tony abbott - lies,"
and see what comes up.

He's big on 3 word slogans, small on policy detail.

He's good on simple pledges of negativity that do
little more than try to emphasise the government's
supposed failings.

His "stop the boats," rhetoric only dog whistles the
community's xenophobes and bigots. His "scrap the tax,"
comforts only those who think climate change is crap.

As political commentators point out - Abbott's
campaign of "no," has lowered the bar on public
discourse. Political discourse as one commentator
claims has "descended into megaphone territory with
partisans using any and all platforms to besmirch,
ridicule and aggressively denounce those who don't agree
with their party's line."

"Skirmishes and biffs constantly break out on social media
and talk back radio, Christopher Pine is a perfect advocate
of this style. While confected conflict masquerades as news
on tabloid television and in print media."

We are all the poorer for it.

To vote for the same team that was kicked out in 2007,
would be a huge mistake. As Queensland, NSW, and Victoria,
are now finding out.

cont'd ...

In the 20th Century as a result of the Catholic
Education System when punishment was dealt out
for insignificant reasons pupils learned to lie
with the knowledge that all was forgiven in the
Confessional.

It appears that this influence has carried through
to many who have been educated in the Catholic
School Systems. We do know that Tony Abbott had
the benefit of such an education.

Lieing becomes inbred especially when great ambition
dominates one's life.

"Lieing becomes inbred especially when great ambition dominates one's life."

So that's why Juliar lies all the time!

You mean like this, Lexi?

http://www.smh.com.au/national/read-my-lying-lips-abbott-admits-you-cant-believe-everything-he-says-20100517-v9ge.html?rand=1274144300447

The lying issue isn't something restricted to the red-headed witch & the RAbbott, rather its endemic to the human race. Most of us aren't in, or even aspire to a position where it really matters. As Lexi correctly observes, a catholic upbringing does assist to some extent in encouraging less than ideal habits, but even that doesn't in the majority of cases, result in pathological liars like the RAbbott. JoolIAR however can't blame a catholic upbringing for her propensity to spout mistruths. A far more likely explanation for the production of male bovine droppings by most of the political persuasion is found in the words of Lord Acton in 1887 'Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men'. In the 1950s, David Brin expanded on the earlier statement with 'It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power. Good people usually are not lured by power. They do not seem to require all of that recognition. We have so many examples of people doing good while staying behind the scenes and going largely unnoticed. For them, goodness seems to be its own reward.'

Its obvious then that lying, and indeed a host of other evils, results from allowing people to have power, without first placing very clearly defined limits on that power. We can't rely on the individuals on whom we confer power to regulate themselves, because thats tantamount to shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. A truly effective regulation system then must be not only developed by those who elect officialdom, but it must be maintained wholly by the people else it be watered down by those its intended to control.

Hi Poirot,
Sorry this is off topic. Noticed your post on 14 July 2010.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3793#92883
I am a historian researching Goodlet and Smith and would like to make contact with you re your great great grandfather.

JHG,

I think the procedure here is for you to give Graham Young permission to pass your contact details onto me.

We can go from there.

Cheers.

It wasn't just the 'major parties' that the $1 a vote would have favoured, because the Greens would have done very well.

I cannot see how it is anything but a plus for democracy that the LNP said no because public opinion went against the idea.

What I do criticise is the secrecy negotiating the deal. It is no good for democracy that legislation, particularly legislation that affects elections, is framed behind closed doors. Transparency and proper consultation with the public please.

Dear onthebeach,

I couldn't agree with you more about transparency.
Tell that to Mr Abbott and his "slush-fund."
"Australians for Honest Politics," indeed.
Litigation pending.

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for that.

There's even more on the web.
What's worse than being a liar - is a liar who's
also a hypocrite. But then look at who Abbott's
mentors were/are. Apart from JH -
Cardinal Pell springs to mind.

onthebeach - What I do criticise is the secrecy negotiating the deal. It is no good for democracy that legislation, particularly legislation that affects elections, is framed behind closed doors. Transparency and proper consultation with the public please.

Note that the grub agreed to the deal with the red-headed witch without mentioning he'd done so to his LNP compatriots. If they had any sense they would turf him out immediately, the fact they haven't suggesting there is nobody else interested or capable of taking on the RAbbotts job.

praxidice,

I agree with you. Time the politicians remembered that they govern at our pleasure and they serve to us, not the other way around.

The 'greed is good' self-serving attitude of Labor ministers, the LNP and the Greens is disgraceful.

onthebeach

I'm right over these parasites, seems everything the scum do costs us heaps, more often than not to fix things resulting from the utter ineptitude of the preceding galahs. They constantly lie, cheat, distort, mislead and fabricate with impunity, they thumb their nose at us by awarding themselves the 'honorable' title, and even when we finally get the opportunity to turf the clowns out, they expect us to keep them like royalty for the term of their natural !! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR What may I ask are the oxygen bandit governors doing to earn their scandalously obscene salaries, apart that is from swanning around squandering money faster than a whole Navy of drunken sailors ??

'Abbott's credibility is shredded '

certainly not according to the latest polls. Suck it up guys. Maybe your hatred is blinding you that little bit to much.

runner

the only poll that matters is the one in September, there will be a lot of water pass under the bridge before then

Oh dear, runner,

So it's the old "hatred is blinding you" routine.

Can't you come up with another not-so-hackneyed line?

Poirot - Can't you come up with another not-so-hackneyed line?

I wonder whats worse, people who believe the sun shines out of the nether regions of the RAbbott or the red-headed witch, or folk like moi who detest both their guts (almost) equally :)

Good point, prax.

From my vantage point, it's got less to do with Abbott's so-called credibility - and more to do with yer average "sheeples" gullibility.

Runner,

According to the latest Newspoll the PM is catching up.
Remember the story of the tortoise and the hare?
Interesting times ahead.

Lexi - According to the latest Newspoll the PM is catching up.
Remember the story of the tortoise and the hare?
Interesting times ahead.

Actually the race is between a red-headed witch & a RAbbott, at least until Big Clive gets the Cessna Citation fired up. Can a RAbbott run faster than a red-headed witch ?? .... probably not if she gets her broomstick tuned up although even that will have a hard time catching a corporate jet :)

Lexi

'According to the latest Newspoll the PM is catching up.
Remember the story of the tortoise and the hare?
Interesting times ahead. '

r u using wayne swan or penny wong economics to reach your conclusions?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/both-sides-buckled-on-party-funding-but-voters-punished-julia-gillard/story-fn59niix-1226656560806

runner - wayne swan or penny wong economics

Ahhh so, the wong wun vs the wabbott.

We certainly do live in interesting times :)

Poirot, I think your vantage point may turn out to be quicksand.

Praxidice I don' know where you get your info. but internal labor polling leaked today says Rudd will be the only Labor member from Qld after the election. I'll bet "London to a brick on" that the red head would love Abbott's credibility right now. Sorry Lexi.

Yes in deed, interesting times. What will be very interesting is watching just where all those Labor people chucked out will find jobs. Academia won't have so much money to waste, or perhaps even the inclination, after having 1.5 billion extracted from their budgets, & the unions are getting a bit short these days.

We have mechanical street sweepers now, did away with night carts years ago, & even took the men off the garbage trucks, so what are the poor dears going to do. Oh I know, live off us on their pension.

runner,

The Australian newspaper shows that the Prime Minister
has narrowed the gap on Mr Abbott on who would make the
better leader. This was taken from the Herald-Sun.
The election
may well turn out to be a surprise (not the landslide
as some would have us believe). Don't forget they said
that Keating wouldn't win...

Dear Prax.,

This may lighten things up a bit:

I'd like to share with you a bit of good-hearted humour
which shows the difference between the PM and Mr Abbott
and their qualifications for leadership:

Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott are sitting next to each other
on a flight from Sydney to Canberra. Tony leans over to Julia
and asks if she would like to play a fun game. Julia just
wants to take a nap, so she politely declines.

Tony persists. He explains, "I ask you a question, and if you
don't know the answer, you pay me $5, and visa versa."
Again Julia politely declines.

Tony gets agitated and says, "Okay, if you don't know the answer
you pay me $5, and if I don't know the answer, I will pay $50."

This catches Julia's attention. "How much is the GST on a
loaf of bread?" asks Tony. Julia doesn't say a word, reaches
in to her wallet, pulls out $5 and hands it to Tony.

Now, it's Julia's turn. She asks Tony," What hops, carries its
young in its pouch and flies?"

Tony looks at Julia with a puzzled frown. He takes his laptop
computer and searches his references. Taps into his air phone
with his modem and searches the internet, the Commonwealth
National Library. Frustrated, he send emails to his pals in the
Liberal Party - all to no avail.

After an hour, he wakes up Julia and hands her $50. Julia
politely takes the $50 and turns away to get back to sleep.

Tony, who's more than a little miffed wakes Julia again and
asks, "Well, so what is the answer?" Without a word, Julia
reaches into her wallet, hands Tony Abbott $5 and goes back
to sleep.

Hasbeen - Rudd will be the only Labor member from Qld after the election

I don't have any decent contacts inside ALP Queensland however I wouldn't doubt your information, certainly the dying duck is politically a dead man walking, his Lilley constituents definitely won't give him another run, likewise Graham Perrett at Sunnybank or whatever his electorate is called and a few others I've had dealings with in the past. On the other hand, there is a massive amount of angst with the Newman / Seeney / Nicholls dictatorship that just maybe might translate to a few more ALP ticks than we'd otherwise expect. The numbskulls have just written their political death warrant with their hairbrained attack on PV system owners & that won't help the RAbbott. The real dark horse is Big Clive. If, as there is every reason to expect, he runs candidates in every house & senate seat, he'll be the first third option we've ever had. He has good 'real world' candidates with infinitely better credibility than the average major party candidate and will undoubtedly pull votes from both ALP & LNP. Whether enough to take government in his own right is yet to be seen, but in any case he has every chance of being top dog in a coalition of rats & mice parties. I think its far early to tell how things will pan out by September but it certainly won't be a boring run-up to the election.

Lexi

'The Australian newspaper shows that the Prime Minister
has narrowed the gap on Mr Abbott on who would make the
better leader '

Sorry Lexi you are using swan/wong maths. What don't you understand about the question on who would make the better pm according to newspoll.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-caucus-challenges-gillard-on-foreign-work-visas/story-fn59niix-1226656744177

now read it slowly

Praxidice it was on the Labor party propaganda network news, the ABC, so it must be true, mustn't it?

I have been mystified by this thread from day one.
When did Abbott get this creditability?
We, watch, are about to put him in Gillards job!
Poor fella my country.
Surely we deserve better than those two

runner,

You're the one with a comprehension problem.

Even the Libs themselves are having second thoughts
about their leader. And the divisions between the
Libs and their Coalition (Country Party) has many
internal conflicts and divisions which promise to
destabilise.

As for the team that Abbott is locked into.
They're a joke.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-30/bourke-abbott-liberals-leader/4721720

Lexi

u r getting very desperate indeed when you have to lie about polls and then drag up something said on the drum a couple of months ago.

Lexi - As for the team that Abbott is locked into.
They're a joke.

albeit not a particularly good one :(

BTW your JooLIAR funny was quite good

Did you hear the one about the people who went into a post-office to collect a parcel and were asked to identify themselves. Seems none had their drivers licence or other photo ID, so the person behind the counter asked them what else they had to prove who they were.

First was a Greg Norman who did some unbelievably tricky move with a golf ball which was judged sufficient identification

Next came Matrina Navratilova who did her bit with a tennis ball which was also judged sufficient identification

Finally came JooLIAR who scratched her head for a while before admitting her mind was totally blank. The counter person immediately recognized her and said 'thats fine, here's your parcel' :)

You could or course easily replace JooLIAR with the RAbbott

Hasbeen - it was on the Labor party propaganda network news, the ABC, so it must be true, mustn't it

Come to think of it, I seem to recall the RAbbott 'rabbiting on :) :) :)' about flogging the ABC and SBS so you may be correct

Belly - When did Abbott get this creditability

He found it in a packet of Cornflakes. You don't mean to suggest the clown got it legitimately ??

runner - getting very desperate indeed when you have to lie about polls

There is no need for anyone to lie about politicians, they do far more than enough themselves for everyone on the planet. Remember the line about their lips ??

Dear Prax.,

One has a nose
The other has ears
One gets things done
The other builds fears.

The thing is that there's no shortage of the
natural resources of ignorance, apathy, hate, and
fear. As long as these things are in the collective
conscious and unconscious, the Liberal Party will
get votes.

Oh Lexi

u r getting bitter indeed.

runner,

No, I'm angry, not bitter.

"Runner, dear runner, swindles and schemes,
voting for Abbott won't be
as much fun as it seems."

Lexi

fair enough Lexi however both Abbott and Gillard are only human with a fallen nature like you and me.

After a year of General Disaster, no half sentient Queenslander would even dream of giving the RAbbott a tick. Its rapidly getting to the point where voters will initiate a vote of no confidence against Newman / Seeney / Nicholls. I've been on the phone all day talking to various groups, looks like we've got over a million in favour with more to come. Its yet to be seen if a million is sufficient, otherwise the only significant obstacles are the AWOL governor & lack of an alternative gubmunt.

P,

It's good that queensland is low on half sentient labor voters, as it looks as the sentient majority still greatly favor Newman and Abbott.

It looks as though Labor might be left with only one seat in queensland.

Don't discount the minority groups
coming up through the ranks.
They just may surprise.
And where would the Liberal Party be
without its Coalition?

shadow minister

As I've said previously, you may just be correct about one federal ALP member in Queensland but LNP will also take a big hit. There are 14,000 public servants, tens of thousands of business employees who are on Newstart because of the public service sackings, every single pensioner, every single ratepayer, nearly 500,000 PV system owners who are fed up to the back teeth with the mindless crappings on by McArdle & Newman, actually just about everyone in the state has been put offside to some extent by the Newman / Seeney / Nicholls dictatorship. There is no way known Newman has a ghost of a chance of winning his seat of Ashgrove again, same goes that knuckledragging thug Seeney & the near moronic Nicholls. Its inconceivable that Village Idiot Bates will last the term, Phantom Driscoll is already a politically dead man walking, the list goes on and on. For a party which had every opportunity to stay in office indefinitely, the clowns have excelled themselves with the number of 'interesting' events in which they have become embroiled. I'm not aware of one person in favour of the latest state budget, even one-eyed (or no, two, three or four eyed for that matter) Queenslander who is in favour). I spoke to a number of group leaders yesterday who are discussing the possibility of pushing for a vote of no confidence in Newman / Seeney / Nicholls & seems that is a distinct possibility. At least some of this angst is bound to flow on to RAbbott & Co. Like Lexi says, there are alternatives, including one with good candidates in all house & senate seats ... something that has never been the case previously. The 2013 federal election is a different event than any before, we are entering uncharted waters.

P,

You need to take a step back and differentiate between your feelings and those of the rest of Queensland. Whilst trimming the bloated public service, the LNP's popularity dipped, but recent polls put them pretty much where they were at the election.

As for a no confidence vote, given that the labor opposition can all fit in a large SUV, that is a bit of a joke. As for the "angst" about which you talk, all the latest polls seem to put Abbott and the coalition in the best position it has been for nearly a decade.

Prax,
I support Hasbeens view. The priority now is to be rid of this Labor mob. The reality is, under present voting system, the LNP are the only alternative. I will give my primary vote to a minor parties as an encouragement, but the second vote will go to the LNP. I do not like the present system but we have it for the coming election and will have to make the best of it.

I have some reservations about Abbott but he is not the LNP and has recently been shown the party can overrule him. All very well to say I don't like either party and vote informal, but that is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I expect the LNP to stop the boats and have far better financial management as they have previously shown. I can lobby for change after the election.

Shadow Minister

I fully agree that the horribly bloated public service needed to be savagely slashed, however there are major problems with the way it was undertaken. Firstly, many of the worst parasites (ie the A06 - A08 & senior executive service drones) were retained, and indeed some of those are attacking the Newman / Seeney / Nicholls dictatorship from within.

Secondly, neither Health nor Energex / Ergon have been subject to significant trimming, Health still has three administrative staff per clinical, and Energex / Ergon have four administrative per 'worker'.
There are reasons for this, most significant of which is the ease of sale to an entity wanting an 'under management' operation.

The list of Queenslanders disenchanted with Newman / Seeney / Nicholls goes well beyond public servants. There are numerous businesses which used to trade with gubmunt areas that no longer exist, some have gone to the wall and others downsized, whatever, there are tens of thousands of victims there alone. Next there are pensioners, property owners, business operators, retirees etc who have been hurt by Newman / Seeney / Nicholls actions. Over the past few days, Newman has picked up the 'PV system owners are evil' cudgel previously wielded by Energy Minister McArdle. Despite advice from barristers they are flogging a VERY dead and decaying horse (400,000 strong class action), the clowns are determined to shift focus from their own avarice & ineptitude onto people they until recently commended for saving the state the cost of new power stations.

The aforementioned plus a raft of other issues that have yet to be taken account of in the various polls mean that things aren't necessarily what they may appear. Sure the opposition meets in a prehistoric Tarago, however there is a Plan B that hasn't been published.

Hasbeen is correct in stating first priority is to dispose of the rad-headed witch, nevertheless there is more than one way to de-fur a feline.

Lexi, "where would the Liberal Party be without its Coalition?

Where would Labor be without the Greens protest party?

Whoops, whatever you do, don't mention the Fellow Earthians. The Gaia Religious Party.

onthebeach

I think Lexi is on the right track in that rats & mice parties will figure much more than ever before. Dissatisfaction with the major parties is at an all-time high, the red-headed witch has successfully alienated at least 70% of Australians & the RAbbott isn't appreciably different, regardless of what the polls suggest. Big Clive is the obvious dark horse, however there are a few electorates in my part of the world where sitting members are, and always have been oxygen bandits, where I expect him to clean up big time.

P,

I can't find any evidence of the "tens of thousands" of victims. Are you making this up?

The polls would indicate that Queensland still strongly supports Newman.

Shadow Minister - I can't find any evidence of the "tens of thousands" of victims

Bit hard to see anything when your head is up the nether regions of General Disaster

P,

So you are making it up?

Dishing out insults is not a good look when you have been caught out bulls**ting.

I live in Sydney, so the complete lack of any reporting of the "tens of thousands" of victims leads me to question you claim. If you have any evidence please provide links etc, as the word of a poster prone to flamboyant exaggeration carries little weight.

Shadow Minister

There is no shortage of reporting, however given the incestuous relationship between the LNP & the Murdoch press its hardly surprising the truth doesn't exactly get front page coverage. Suggest you consult a few Queenland folk before you put your mouth into gear.

P,

When you have got yourself in a hole it is a good idea to stop digging. None of my queensland colleagues are aware of the "tens of thousands of victims" about which you prattle, and even then anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Feel free to quote any of the non News Corp papers, or anything to support your grandiose claims, or be an adult and simply admit you exaggerated.

I'm sure there are quite a few Labor mates who no longer get government contracts. We all know the ones. They got contracts, & did nothing but subcontract them out to others to do the work. I'm sure some of those will not vote LNP, but of course they never did.

However I can't see how too many of the voters can be too upset, when the latest polls show they will wipe out the Labor lot at the election. Just one from QLD is the present count. Praxidice I believe what you are suffering from is called wishful thinking.

Now if the rest of the country come to their senses, we might get labour down to less than a score. My only worry is with labor so on the nose, we might get some of the other riff raff into the lower house.