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The Forum > General Discussion > Heroism – often found in unlikely places.

Heroism – often found in unlikely places.

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in their minds ultimately there can be but one outcome, the total subjugation of all others.
Paul 1405,
That is the gist. Unfortunately, too many can't see or refuse to see that. The asylum seeking single men are their soldiers waiting for the numbers to be right here.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 25 May 2013 6:10:24 PM
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Joe, that's pretty simplistic.

The French fellow was 78 years old, a very long-term right-wing polemicist and acting out of what he saw as patriotism in one of the greatest symbols of France and of the religion that has been at the heart of the French State since Charlemagne. He was making a straightforward statement rich in nationalist semiotics and it didn't cost him much to do so at 78 after a rich, full life, so it wasn't very heroic as a self-sacrifice. I don't see any heroism in his failure to attack others either, to do so would have been in opposition to his patriotic motivation and would have confused the message he was trying to convey.

The people in Britain were almost polar opposites. They were both raised in Britain, as I understand it, but felt so little attachment to the place and so much hatred for it that they attacked somebody they saw as a symbol of the state's authority. They didn't attack the very brave lady who spoke to them, or anybody else except another symbol of the State, the police.

The BBC coverage is very good, as far as it goes.

I think this one may yet turn out to be a lot more complicated than you think. The rant about the radical Islamicist agenda may well turn out to be a bit of a red-herring, given their background. Although it's possible they were primed to act their anger out in this particular way by associates within the Islamic community, it seems to me that their motivation for acting out at all was much more personal and rooted in a sense of alienation, isolation from the mainstream culture, lack of opportunity, etc. If they'd been born Irish they'd have been in the IRA.
Posted by Antiseptic, Saturday, 25 May 2013 6:40:33 PM
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Hi Antiseptic,

No, I'm certainly not saying he was some sort of hero, just that - by comparison with the Islamists in London - he didn't intend to take anybody else with him, or worse, kill somebody else in his rage against the world. No, he's no hero, and most certainly, neither are those butchers.

But for all that, I'm not so sure that they would deserve the death penalty, if it were applicable in the UK. Their lives are precious too, and that approach should be a feature of distinction against the Islamists' notion that any non-believer is fair game, and that any member of a 'group' which has wronged Muslims somewhere is collectively liable, especially a soldier. Preferably unarmed. In other words, that collective punishment is okay and yes, I'm aware that not only the Nazis used that rationale but so have the Israelis an to an extent, the Yanks. It's wrong, evil, and impermissible whoever uses it.

Todorov has suggested that the mark of a barbarian -who could be from any group, any of us - is to regard somebody from a group other than one's own as not-human, as expendable, as un-valued, as eliminable. We surely must be above that.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 25 May 2013 7:56:30 PM
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Dear Poirot, Lexi, Belly and Paul1405,

All entirely reasonable positions to take, thank you. We are all individuals and so stories like these will of course impact us differently. I certainly am not claiming anything definitive for my take.

Dear Antiseptic and individual,

Thank you for having an appreciation of my perspective.

Of course the all too familiar course of events probably would have been another depressed loner in the US massacring yet another group of innocent people before turning the weapon on himself.

I feel it is fairly certain that thoughts of following this depressingly common path were occupying the mind of Carnell Moore when he wrote of the Monster inside of him getting stronger. He had certainly gathered a collection of weapons capable of inflicting a terrible carnage which he took to the airport. This really could have had a dramatically more tragic outcome.

Suicide by cop is not only an American phenomena but occurs in this country too. I get a real sense of Carnell's Dr Jekyll taking the Mr Moore/Hyde to his death. "I bring the life of that unhappy Henry Jekyll to an end" mirrors Carnell writing “I could not save myself I could spare others”. However I think it is hard to be sure he knew exactly which way this would turn out. Would the monsters gain control?

Of course like most Aussie kids of my generation the literature of Robert Louis Stevenson was part of my formative reading.

“You must suffer me to go my own dark way I have brought on myself a punishment and a danger that I cannot name. If I am the chief of sinners, I am the chief of sufferers also.”
Robert Louis Stevenson, The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

Perhaps this is why Carnell's story has so much resonance for me.

Cont...
Posted by csteele, Saturday, 25 May 2013 8:03:14 PM
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Cont...

Antiseptic, I do take your point about lives of 'quiet desperation' yet Thoreau was taking about the ordinary man, not one obviously afflicted with a personality disorder where part of him was clamouring to do evil.

Topically this piece, The Flawed Concept of “Good vs Evil” - The philosophy of Hayao Miyazaki by artist Ashley Allis was posted to Imgur recently.
“When I say 'hero' do not picture someone with the strength to fight and conquer evil – because evil is not something that can ever be conquered or defeated. Evil is natural – it is innate in all humans. But while it can't be defeated … it can be controlled. In order to control it and live the life of a true hero, you must learn to see with both eyes unclouded by hate. See the good in that which is evil, and the evil in that which is good.”
http://imgur.com/a/60fev

I have found much to contemplate in Carnell's story.

“There comes an end to all things; the most capacious measure is filled at last; and this brief condescension to evil finally destroyed the balance of my soul.”
Robert Louis Stevenson, The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

For me his act of warning people in the area was a clear sign that he reacted before his soul was entirely destroyed. This must have taken courage, the type I'm not sure I would be capable of. I certainly hope never to find out.
Posted by csteele, Saturday, 25 May 2013 8:05:54 PM
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csteele,

I think I understand a little better what you were getting at earlier.

Are you saying that somehow the more "Dr Jekyll" part of Moore managed to muster the strength to warn the public of the danger from the "Mr Hyde" part of him. That his trajectory in space and time was to commit murder and mayhem, and this was somehow thwarted by the enfeebled but still viable "good" part of him?
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 26 May 2013 1:04:01 AM
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