So Paul, the unions are off again seeking a $30 per week pay rise for low income earners.

So in your way of looking at things, I guess it would have been higher, but some of the increase was given up in lue of the super increase.

Yer right!

It may well have started off as a trade off, but not any longer.

It is simply labor's way of shifting welfare from governments responsibility, to business.

Thanks Lexi a couple of good links, The Age one in particular.

Rehctub, following on from your notion of "common knowledge" about the economic performance of Labor. In case you have not read the 2nd link Lexi posted, here is an extract which I have no reason not to believe is factual:

"Average annual increase in Australia’s gross domestic product was 3.65% during the 11 Howard years. Then down to 2.44% under Labor.
Australia’s average through the Howard years was about the same as equivalent countries. The USA averaged 3.04%. Canada 3.3%. Some European countries were higher. Luxembourg averaged 4.78%.
Then the GFC knocked the stuffing out of every economy — except one.
In the five years under Labor in Australia, growth has been 2.44%. But in the USA: 0.54%; in Canada: 0.94%; and in Luxembourg: 0.52%. And the Euro Zone: negative 2.3%!
Economists around the world regard this as a major pointer to the Australian Government being the world’s best economic manager."

This not to say the Coalition would have performed worse, or better than Labor, had they been in office this past 5 years, any conclusions would be pure conjecture on our part. What we can conclude is the economy has done well under Labors watch. Whether this "done well" is entirely, partly, or not at all, due to Labors economic management, we do not know. Like all politicians Labor, in the light of the fact we the voters throw brick-bats when thing go wrong, are entitled to claim credit, when things go right.

"So Paul, the unions are off again seeking a $30 per week pay rise for low income earners."
Unions are a pressure group, representing one section of society. It would be remiss of them if they did not put forth such argument as you outline. As it would be remiss of employer representatives if they did not counter that argument. With impartial judgment, let’s hope the outcome is acceptable to all.
I very much suspect the expectation from the unions is not $30, nor do I believe the employers expectation is zero dollars, the outcome will be somewhere in between, as determined by the independent umpire, who has no vested interest one way or another.
Work Choices from Howard failed the test of fairness.

Paul as you and I understand, the union funded ACTU National wage case is mostly on behalf of those who are not union members.
Sir Robert Menzies, yes but! bloke the man is one of us these days!
Said every worker had a right to be represented by a union.
And to have what we would call today, a living wage.
He knew wages are the oil that is spent by consumers and keeps the economy strong.
In another post today I spoke about a dreadful sight, two folk looking for food in a rubbish bin.
It hurt and reminded me how truly important true welfare reform is, to see only the right folk get it.
Rechtub no doubt would want to tax them on what they found.
Why Paul do you bother.

Belly, you make sense, but many don't/can't see it that way. A bit of a blast from the past; wages are what oils the economy, too true.
"two folk looking for food in a rubbish bin." my beat is the inner burbs of Sydney and I see that every day of the week. I met a girl the other day, about 25 looked 40, hanging out for a fix, called me sir, asked could I help her out with a feed, bought her a couple of sausage rolls and a can of coke, cost me $6.40, no big deal. Should I have said P off, you junkie B, christ, what would be the use of doing that? I can't judge people, I don't know her deal in life was and most likely will never know. Just as I don't know the story of the aboriginal bloke who the next night 'bit' me for change for "coffee", I knew where he was headed, the pub 50 yards down the road, incidentally where I had just seen him come out of, heading that way for another schooner. Getting 'bit' for a few bob is par for the course around that part of town, I just go with the flow.

Paul in my Sydney days I at first gave to every one of them.
Then found out beggars can be getting more than us.
I never expected to see this in that town.
It hurts.
The woman was clean and well dressed.
The bloke dirty and desperate.
Amongst my banking [ needed to build it up for a buy] was 30 dollars in silver.
Woman would not take it man took off as I got out of car.
Gave it to Salys round the corner after banking.
I think, no evidence, housing costs are part of the problem.
And am sure drugs and grog are not the problem for these two.
We must confront waste, cut it, and give alternatives to the true poor.