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The Forum > General Discussion > Cost of NDIS

Cost of NDIS

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Whilst the concept of the NDIS might be fine as far as it goes, I very much doubt that the costs of operating the scheme have been properly thought out. Its obvious that only a miracle will save the Federal ALP in September, nevertheless the clowns are pulling out all stops to gain support & as with most projects with the ALP stamp, the numbers don't add up. There would need to be thousands of additional public servants recruited to administer the thing, including a fair number of the horribly overpaid & underworked fatcat variety. These turkeys are wont to take long & expensive lunches and to run around the world with requisite retinue of gofers ... all paid out of the public purse. Ultimately I can forsee this event costing several times what was glibly predicted & at a time when we are supposedly already in financial poo. Just like charities which ostensibly exist to improve the lot of some unfortunates but which in reality serve mainly to enrich a few parasitic opportunists, the NDIS will employ an army of largely unproductive leeches, will consume vast quantities of money in its administration, and do little or nothing for those its supposed to support.
Posted by praxidice, Thursday, 9 May 2013 7:18:54 AM
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Quote - "I can foresee this event costing several times what was glibly predicted"

I would not be surprised if it was a deliberate Government tactic to quote a low price for large projects so as to make the taxpayers think it was okay BUT it is usual fact that with the passage of time nearly all these big projects are at least double or triple the original cost.

If the ran a referendum on it costing $3 Billion most taxpayers would probable say yes but if the said it was going to cost $9 it would probably be a resounding No.

Disability is like the refugee boats you really can not predict with any certainty what will happen in the future.

1 simple scenario that would blow the budget was the thalidomide chemical or asbestos, it could be as easy as Chemically modified food causing birth defects in the future.

Once it is voted in it is a probably burden forever.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 9 May 2013 10:09:25 AM
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LINE correction

If the Government ran a referendum on it costing $3 Billion most taxpayers would probable say yes but if the Government said it was going to cost $9 Billion it would probably be a resounding No.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 9 May 2013 10:11:07 AM
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"If the Government ran a referendum on it costing $3 Billion most taxpayers would probable say yes but if the Government said it was going to cost $9 Billion it would probably be a resounding No."

Well there's no way of knowing what "most taxpayers" would say yes to, is there?

All we really know about tax is that people don't agree to pay it because if they did, there'd be no need for tax, would there? The tax laws could be abolished, and all the people would just send in a cheque to Consolidated Revenue for the same amount of money they used to pay, wouldn't they?

But even if they would probably say yes to any given amount, that doesn't get around the inherent problem that people can and do use the political process to force others to pay under compulsion, for what they themselves are unwilling to pay voluntarily.

The best way to fund the NDIS is to pass a special Act of Parliament taxing all Labor voters, and anyone else who advocates the scheme; and no-one else. Remember these are the same people who tell us that there are no higher values than NDIS - when they're not telling us that there are no higher values than climate change, foreign wars, handouts to big banks and corporations, handouts to unions, and anything else they say they support but aren't actually willing to pay for themselves.
Posted by Jardine K. Jardine, Thursday, 9 May 2013 10:42:11 AM
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Who needs it? I get 600 download with copper from Telstra. The system will be obsolete by the time it is finished. Everything will be wire LESS
The damn thing gets to your footpath and then your up for thousands more to get it connected and more to use it.
Who needs it other than that Labor rat Kaiser'
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Thursday, 9 May 2013 10:50:57 AM
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chrisgaff1000 - You have confused the NDIS with NBN this is not the national broadband network.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 9 May 2013 11:07:31 AM
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Thank you for the correction, it's good to see some people are on the ball unlike our pollies who keep dropping it. Too slippery I suppose.
I shall withdraw Kaiser and replace him with all the others with their noses in the trough. Apparently there re too many to name.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Thursday, 9 May 2013 11:26:19 AM
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it has always amazed me how pollies luv to appear the compassionate loving ones when they are spending other peoples money. How nice it was to give all the handouts from the carbon (deceit) tax before collecting it. If Labour had not wasted billions on idiotic gw fantasy every child with a mild disability could be a lot better off.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 9 May 2013 11:27:21 AM
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I was rereading an interview with a disabled person last night. If what he is expecting comes to pass, I want to know where I can go to become disabled.

Currently he shares public housing with a couple of other disabled, with cares supplied to aid where necessary, cook, clean & do all the chores I hate. Mowing maintenance & replacements are all free of course.

He attends university 3 days a week, & complains that the taxi fares are only partly subsidized, poor dear. As he doesn't expect his education to enable him to become independent, & self supporting, why are we paying for it, & preventing the access of someone who would use it.

He expects the NDIS will mean he gets a home of his own, exclusively, with his own full time, & part time careers. He also expects to be provided with a car, modified to allow him to drive it.

He expects a new wheel chair. His old $15,000 one is 5 years old, & doesn't have a couple of the latest knickknacks. This & a host of other special gear to make his life more enjoyable.

All up he expects a capital investment in his welfare of about $750,000, recurrent annual equipment costs of about $70,000, & annual wages bill of $250,000.

Now I do believe a disabled person should be supported to the standard on a low/medium income earner, but being given that which most work their whole lives to attain is ridicules.

No wonder the country is going broke.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 9 May 2013 11:43:25 AM
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Dear Hasbeen,

Come on mate, this is the internet.

A link or it didn't happen.
Posted by csteele, Thursday, 9 May 2013 11:58:33 AM
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While I welcome the author, and can assure him/her the thread will draw the red necks, I disagree with its direction.
Covered by this extraordinary great plan, supported by both sides of the house are folk truly in need.
The young, living in the only place they currently can, old peoples homes.
I would have thought caring for those far less fortunate than us is a good thing to do.
And the method agreed to by both sides to pay for it seems fair.
Having said all that, I understand Labor under Dillard is lost, but some things thrown at her and Labor have no more substance than that sandwich yesterday.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 9 May 2013 2:09:46 PM
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Belly - Quote "the thread will draw the red necks, I disagree with its direction."

Definition of a red neck according to the Belly dictionary - Anyone who does not agree with him. see hypocrite.

If implemented the scheme should be carefully worded to ensure extravagant claims and items are not included, like $28,000 wheel chairs or fully renovated homes etc.

I also see a system administered by thousands of public servants and extremely high paid bureaucrats, as stated by the author.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 9 May 2013 2:25:49 PM
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Here's a link that may help explain things:

http://newmatilda.com/2013/05/02/disability-levy-serves-common-good

They say that a society is judged by the way it looks after
its most vunerable.

I'm more than happy to pay such a small levy to help.
Posted by Lexi, Thursday, 9 May 2013 3:25:47 PM
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Lexi - Quote "I'm more than happy to pay such a small levy to help." If people abuse the system because the wording is not strict as to what they get a small levy can grow into a big levy.

They say that a Fool is a person in debt who keeps giving money away to others.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 9 May 2013 4:39:42 PM
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There are a couple of concerns about the NDIS

Firstly, I do not see where the word insurance comes into the situation. Insurance against what exactly? It does not stop people from becoming disabled. The word should be dropped from the name.

Secondl, I have serious reservations about the financial estimates being made. Sure the levy gives about $3 billion but what about the rest? I have seen estimates of 6-9-even $15 billion per year so where is the rest of the funds to come from, I cannot see the states coughing up the difference. The present government has a poor record of management and estimating finance. They over estimated their income for this year by $12 billion. That does not look good for future.

So what is going to happen? Is it a gold plated scheme we really cannot afford or are we going to pay a lot more tax to fund it. Remember there are many things that have to be budgeted for.

Or has the expectations of the disabled been built up too high and they will not get the assistance they now expect, or will many not qualify for assistance. 410,000 seems alot of disabled.

I am not against assistance for disabled people but the whole scheme appears airy fairy at this point. We do need more deffinate information.
Posted by Banjo, Thursday, 9 May 2013 4:43:10 PM
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Dear Betty

Can you identify even one initiative dreamed up by the red-headed witch, or for that matter, any other bloodsucking parasite, that didn't end up costing taxpayers many times what it was supposed to do ?? Note particularly that precious few of the clowns have ever achieved success in business. Most were in fact failed lawyers, unquestionably the most deceptive & avaricious leech that ever evolved on the planet. The whole motive for the NDIS is the attempt (albeit futile) by the federal ALP to avoid political annihilation. I'm absolutely incensed that the lying witch can stoop to misuse of disabled folk so she keeps her grubby snout in the feeding trough.
Posted by praxidice, Thursday, 9 May 2013 7:22:19 PM
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Dear Prax.,

The link that I've given at the end of this post
may help to clarify things. Here's a bit from it:

"The Productivity Commission outlined the NDIS as
a significant economic reform that will boast
employment by almost a quarter of a million and add
to our national economic growth. While the upfront
price tag for disability care is significant up to
$14 billion when the proposed scheme is fully implemented,
it will pay for itself over time with reduced health care
and welfare costs, higher national income and greater
opportunity for the cared for and ther carers."

"It's also a social reform that will improve the quality
of life for hundreds of thousands of Australians."
Both the Coalition and The Government are joined in
suporting this long overdue reform.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/editorial-ndis-deal-will-bring-relief/story-e6frerdf-1226637900936
Posted by Lexi, Thursday, 9 May 2013 7:57:20 PM
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You make a good point Phillip, as who can forget the fiasco of the insulation scheme, when left in the hands of labor to administer.

At least some saving grace is that it will be a very long time before they (labor) get their grubby hands on it.

On the flip side, I wonder if we are going to see a huge price hike for disability aids, or more so, if your local mower man will all of a sudden, after sitting an Internet course, become some type of rip off administer, or find some way to get his grubby little hands on some of the cash.

This is the trouble with governments, they can pass all the laws they like, but rarely have what it takes to PROPERLY administer the idea, and it becomes just another failed trophy to add to the display case.

I sure hope this scheme is properly administered and that only a SMALL PORTION of the funding goes to the administrators, as it's those with the disability that need help, rather than just creating jobs for the boys.
Posted by rehctub, Thursday, 9 May 2013 9:09:11 PM
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Thanks for those links Lexi....a voice of reason in a sea of rubbish!
The reason why both parties have agreed that we do need a NDIS is because.....we really do need one!

I believe that the ridiculous paid parental leave scheme should be abandoned, and the money put towards the NDIS. I don't see how parents can't work out their finances themselves if they choose to be parents.

The disabled don't choose their disability, and need all the help they can get.
Hasbeen doesn't think they deserve help, because he won't qualify for the same 'fun' times they will have with all this new financial help.
Watch what you wish for Hasbeen....anything can happen in a split second.
Posted by Suseonline, Thursday, 9 May 2013 11:28:15 PM
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Why would anyone give the bloodsucking parasites yet another way to squander money when they have already proven beyond doubt that they lack both the ability and the ethics to handle what they have been given to date ?? Saying 'its needed' misses the point completely .... would you give a street drunk another handout 'to buy food for his starving kids' when the idiot is clearly going to spend it on more booze ?? Convince me that **ALL** the extra money ripped off longsuffering taxpayers will be distributed in a fair and equitable manner to those deserving it and I may change my attitude, however given the long and extensive history of conniving, dirty tricks & wool-pulling by bloodsucking parasites, I wouldn't trust any of the present crop with one red cent.
Posted by praxidice, Friday, 10 May 2013 12:48:33 AM
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PLEASE refrain from communicating with me.
As you demanded of me in another thread.
But thanks for the redneck rant! it is telling.
So too the chuckle worthy fact, some here do not know what they are talking about.
As both sides support the plan, why the concern?
Posted by Belly, Friday, 10 May 2013 6:19:41 AM
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Suse my sweet, I all ready do. After my 3Rd heart attack, with damage to my heart & lungs, I went on the disabled list, & am entitled to all kinds of help.

I can get my gutters cleaned of leaves, but it makes more sense for me to do it before rain, rather than them do it when it fits their schedule. As I can't breath when bent down, I bought a leaf blower to do the job

I can also get gardening & mowing subsidized, along with all the labour component of plumbing, electrical & general maintenance work I need. I did get a plumber from them, to fix a leaking pipe under a low part of the house that I found very hard to get to. I was most appreciative.

There is a scheme I'm entitled to which would have someone shower me 3 times a week, & do my cleaning.

I am also entitled to a mobility scooter or a wheelchair, but I park my ride on mower in the car port & use that. With the post office 4Km away, down narrow roads, if I get to where I can't drive a car, I'll get a quad bike, like a faster mobility scooter, but more capable, & safer.

We have a community service organization, government subsidized, which picks up oldies & disabled, twice a week for trips to a community center in town, & shopping trips. They will take you to appointments like doctor, dentist etc., & collect chemists scripts if required.

I think we are bloody well catered for actually, apart from being given houses & cars, what more can we really need, except perhaps some better organization, & efficiency.

Continued.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 10 May 2013 12:09:45 PM
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Continued

When my mother broke her hip at 94, the hospital therapist told us she had ordered a wheel chair for her, all free. After she came home, we waited almost a month, then bought one. When the free one arrived 9 months later, we gave it to a local nursing home.

If you would like any more evidence as to why I think this NDIS is just a cynical vote buying rip off, just ask, I'll give you a hundred more examples.

The only thing I really need is oxygen equipment, to help me recover when I've forgotten I have to walk very slowly. I can walk quickly out to the front gate, [about 70 yards], but have to lean on it for a few minutes to catch my breath, if I do.

My doctor tells me there is no chance of getting it, until I'm within a couple of months of dying. Then it will probably arrive months to late to be of any use to me.

I'm looking for some which is of no further use to its owner, but will have to use industrial oxygen if I find it.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 10 May 2013 12:10:39 PM
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The true cost of this thing is already going potentially sky high.
QUOTE
"The Productivity Commission predicts it will cost $15 billion a year when fully operational but there are suggestions by the Centre for Independent Studies it could be as high as $22 billion."

Here is a nice bit Quote "The scheme will exclude those aged 65 and over." - What happens when someone disabled reaches 65 the highly paid bureaucrats come and reposes there wheelchairs, stop giving them home assistance etc?

That is a $7 Billion dollar difference, reminds me about the sky rocketing costs and problems with the National Broadband Network (NBN)

At least this Government can say they are consistent and have underestimated the costs and benefits of nearly every single project they have been involved with.

Too bad it is the poor tax payers who will bear the burden forever not the greedy politicians on there indexed for life pensions.

The more that comes out the more I believe they do not know what is going to happen and what the final cost will be.
Posted by Philip S, Friday, 10 May 2013 5:40:19 PM
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The State insists on the right to life,

even with severely disabled people, therefore, the state must take responsibility and not just leave it to families
who struggle all their lives to look after disabled relatives often on a 24hour basis with hardly ever any respite,
while this country spends billions on aid for overseas people.

This country has a rapidly aging population and I doubt whether their will be enough nurses and finances
to look after the masses of those who will develop Alzhiemers and other age related conditions that make people bedridden
and unable to get to the toilet for one thing.
Again no right to choose Euthanasia.

So I hope all the posters here are ready to have the care of their aged relatives put back on their shoulders, as their life burden,
as those families in 3rd world countries have to do, because the government simply cannot do it.
Believe me this is what will happen.
Hope you all enjoy cleaning soiled sheets and clothes and never
being able to let dear old demented Daddy or Mummy out of your
sight.

It's highly probable that there will be no assistance like NDIS
forthcoming from a swamped government.
Posted by CHERFUL, Friday, 10 May 2013 6:05:39 PM
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Yes CHERFUL, and sadly this is just the tip of the ice burg, as the past five plus years of total mismanagement, by the most incompetent government in history, has to be effecting someone.

Welcome to our new world, LABORLAND.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 10 May 2013 6:43:05 PM
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I propose we pull all the world aid money back home and
fund an insurance back-up for the care of the coming
aged population or otherwise set another place at the
table kids, for your in need of round-the-clock care
parents or grandparents or severely disabled in a car
accident relative.

We send 12billion a year to Indonesia,alone.
The Greens have just introduced a bill into parliament
to raise the percentage of the money we donate overseas.

Instead of the Greens crying for people in overseas
countries see if they can't fund the needs of their
own people here first.
Posted by CHERFUL, Friday, 10 May 2013 7:41:04 PM
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CHERFUL - I don't know where you got the $12 billion from, officially we give Indonesia around $540 Million foreign aid, probably a few more million not accounted for.

We give foreign aid for schools, water etc which allows them to buy missiles and attack helicopters in place of looking after there own people which Australian taxpayers do.

Welcome to the world of International diplomacy and foreign aid.
Posted by Philip S, Friday, 10 May 2013 8:41:29 PM
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Foriegn aid is somewhat similar to welfare, whereby we provide CASH in the hope that the recipients are going to use/spend it wisely. How dumb is that.

Give them (foreigners) our surplus goods, or perhaps we could use our resources, including our unemployed, to manufacture goods to send.

However, as has been said many times over, charity starts at home, and with cut backs looming in many areas, not to mention levies, there has not been a better time to act than right now.

I would even go further than that and say to the likes of Indonisian, if you can't stop the Australian bound boats leaving your ports, then we will use your forign aid money to address the issue.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 10 May 2013 9:11:37 PM
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rehctub,

Australia spends around 35 cents in every $100 on foreign aid.

0.35 percent of Gross National Income


There's something cringe-worthy listening to fortunate first-worlders revelling in their insularity and greed.

Always an education on this forum.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 10 May 2013 9:47:33 PM
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Er Cherful, according to this article, Indonesia received $491 "million" in foreign aid from Australia.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4435572.html

Care to let us in on how that translates to "12 billion"?

(Oh, just noticed that Philip has already addressed this, but I'll let it stand)
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 10 May 2013 10:59:04 PM
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Hasbeen, my dear one, just as an aside, here in WA you can have oxygen concentrators and portable oxygen cylinders etc at home for free if they are ordered by a respiratory specialist....as long as you really need it.

Ask your GP for a referral.

It's cheaper for the Government to keep you longer at home on oxygen than send you to hospital or residential care.
With all those problems, no wonder you are a grumpy old thing : )

Lucky you live in Australia.
Posted by Suseonline, Saturday, 11 May 2013 1:21:22 AM
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A sea of failure to understand,while Susionline described how she see,s it, I shudder, every time the usual suspects get such a home.
To rant and yell, their failure to understand.
Life has told me, and Rechtub, often, take government assistance from them! and watch the fun!
Offer it to those most in need, even with BOTH SIDES supporting it?
Our author needs desperately to find a mirror, on doing so do not spend too much time looking for a balanced or understanding person, time is too valuable to look for what is not there!
At least mate, I make my own insults for the woman, not re-useing the red neck convoys shallow and self amuseing ones, then again my mind works!
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 11 May 2013 6:12:40 AM
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Poirot, I am afraid you are falling into the Belly Trap, of criticizing everything I say, without first reading what I say, as my comment was based more on the fact that the aid could be wasted, than the amount paid.

Now having said that, tell me, do you honestly think it is wise to provide aid to a country that is in surplus, while we, the provider are in deficit?

More so, dont you think the Indo authorities would make a better effort to stop the boats leaving, if their much relied upon aid funding was at risk! Because after all, if the boats dont leave, then we don't have to they to stop them.

Food for thought hey!
Posted by rehctub, Saturday, 11 May 2013 6:47:44 AM
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I can't see how the problems are a bad as you suggest rehctub...

"Whilst the concept of the NDIS might be fine as far as it goes, I very much doubt that the costs of operating the scheme have been properly thought out... the NDIS will employ an army of largely unproductive leeches, will consume vast quantities of money in its administration, and do little or nothing for those its supposed to support."

It has bipartisan and broad public support in concept and since you know the results of the September election, all of those problems of maladministration and mismanagement you fear can't possibly happen. Can they?

So no downside, and some septuagenarian parents desperate - not because they have borne the costs of caring for a disabled child their entire lives - but with fear for the future when they no longer can, might have a little peace of mind.
Posted by WmTrevor, Saturday, 11 May 2013 8:09:02 AM
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Sincerest apologies, rehctub... obviously the previous was to praxidice.

Although the general point applies.
Posted by WmTrevor, Saturday, 11 May 2013 8:35:34 AM
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Spot-on WmTrevor.
Parents of any age worry for the future of their disabled children.

At least this fund is in the right direction, and has been agreed on by both parties.
Is it because it has been started by the Labor Party that so many on this forum dismiss it's value?

Won't it be the beloved Holy Liberals who will be primarily dealing with it anyway, as the sure winners of the coming election?
Posted by Suseonline, Saturday, 11 May 2013 11:33:50 AM
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the NDIS will employ an army of largely unproductive leeches, will consume vast quantities of money in its administration, and do little or nothing for those its supposed to support."
WmTrevor,
that's probably the safest wager of them all.
Suseonline also is spot on the money when she says it'll be the next Government that has to juggle the funds whilst Labor will be poking interference after interference from the sideline.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 11 May 2013 12:19:51 PM
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The credit you are extending, individual, should be directed to praxidice who wrote the quote in starting this thread.

As to the sentiments, shouldn't you wait until the coalition are in government before denigrating their administration skills in implementing the NDIS?

Seems only fair.
Posted by WmTrevor, Saturday, 11 May 2013 12:34:35 PM
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before denigrating their administration skills in implementing the NDIS?
WmTrevor,
Do you really think that I'm jumping the gun in the face of every labor administration having denigrated themselves without help from us?
I'd have thought there wasn't an ounce of doubt left.
Labor has introduced compulsory Superannuation & for that I'll always give them credit even though the ulterior motive was to keep their back bone (public service) strong rather than worrying about blue collar workers' retirement
Posted by individual, Saturday, 11 May 2013 4:55:33 PM
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