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The Forum > General Discussion > Horse Racing - The Sport of King's or the business of Rogues ?

Horse Racing - The Sport of King's or the business of Rogues ?

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A few months after my retirement I was in a Bank situated quite close to a leading Race Course. To my utter surprise I met this bloke therein, with whom I previously worked, who was now the Chief Race Course Detective for this nearby Race Course. A most illustrious title I must confess !

After some discussion away from the Bank, and with our collective business there concluded, he asked if I'd be interested in joining his small but elite staff, now that I was retired ? With the proviso naturally that he received positive acquiescence from his superior, the Deputy Secretary of the relevant Course.

Most employed in that capacity are generally all ex-coppers, with a few ex Prison Warders. With the essential qualification for such a role, was simply a thoroughly good knowledge of who's who in the zoo ! Faces particularly, and more Faces ! Being able to recognise individuals who've been officially 'warned off' the Course, both by the law, or the Race Course officials themselves.

So these 'plastic' detectives could direct anyone who's come under unfavourable notice to leave the Course immediately. Failure to do so would result in the 'real' coppers being promptly summoned and invariably the miscreant was charged with trespass, together with + +, as deemed necessary ?

I don't have any specific knowledge of the industry per se, other than my specific understanding of one distinct component. Let's just call it the 'Collections' Department ? And that it does attract a large number of criminals. Other's essentially use the facility as a effective strategy for cleansing money. Further, many of those actually involved in Racing, need to submit to a meticulous and exhaustive character examination too !

In fact in my opinion Racing in all it's forms, needs a permanent, Judicial Commission of Enquiry, with the broadest, most compelling, and persuasive powers, in order to completely exorcise and eradicate the many miscreants it has, for so long, deeply entrenched within it's ranks.

To admit my unequivocal love of ALL horses, would be a gross trivialization, in the extreme.
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 3:44:15 PM
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i don't think o sung su that most people really care that the industry is corrupt. The afl don't care that players are drugged unless it starts to affect revenue. people pour millions into pokies knowing that they get far less than 100% back. In one sense I suspect its part of the game for real gamblers to work out the doped horse or the jockey pulling the reigns. That was certainly the case back in my gambling days before I was delivered. Have you ever noticed that its people who can't afford to gamble that normally do the most. the habit blinds them to corruption. The whole carbon tax rip off is far more serious as people don't get a choice in helping the Government with this wastage and deceit.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 4:38:09 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

Horse racing is the Sport of Kings and the business
of rogues. Were there's so much money involved
corrpution comes with the territory.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/police-probe-racing-corrpution-20120805-23o1k.html

And:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/youre-an-absolute-sham-gai-lashes-out-at-singleton-20130506-2j26b.html
Posted by Lexi, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 5:39:08 PM
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cont'd ...

My apologies for the typos.

Very frustrating.
Posted by Lexi, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 5:40:46 PM
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I rather like the summary of the "sport", provided today by Crikey's Canberra correspondent, Bernard Keane:

"Racing is a corrupt industry that profits from the stupidity of gamblers and the infliction of pain on animals"

Forget the "permanent Judicial Commission of Enquiry" o sung wu.

Apart from the fact that it would not know where to start, or whom to believe, or what rules to observe, the highest likelihood is that its members would simply either be, or soon become, part of the corrupt merry-go-round it was set up to monitor.

As far as the current brouhaha is concerned, it would not surprise me in the slightest if it turned out to be a pantomime, established by the financial advisers and lawyers of one faction or the other (or both) to facilitate the passing of tax-free moneys from one to the other. Defamation payouts are of course tax-free...
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 6:02:29 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

Good to see you in the saddle mate.
Posted by csteele, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 6:14:54 PM
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Hi there Folks...

CSTEELE - Many thanks for your words of welcome, I really appreciate them.

LEXI, thank you for your two Links, more on them later.

RUNNER; I wasn't aware that you endured some exposure to the world of gambling ? And as you say there are many who get caught in it's grasp, experiencing severe losses, not only of money, but spouses, jobs, in fact heavy gamblers often lose everything, including that of self respect, sadly ! While these unsavoury criminal slugs, engorge themselves on others hard earned assets, causing no end of misery, and without any compunction or conscience whatsoever ?

Reluctantly I must agree with PERICLES when he asserts, the introduction of a (permanent), formal government watchdog, is just a waste of time, pie in the sky situation...? Then what ? How can society ensure the industry IS adequately regulated, and the criminal element is purged completely from it for all time ? Or is it simply, all too hard eh ?

Gee, we're a joke, if we can't even clean up our own agency of 'The Sport of Kings' ? Yet here we are, gloating thunderously on how we gained temporary membership of the 'United Nations Security Council', and we can't even interdict our own Horse Racing Industry ! Are we fair dinkum, us tanned, rock hard, tough Aussies, sons of the famous fighting Diggers !

Or are we, as once described to me, by a visiting 'pommy' detective many years ago; '...you're (we're) like a Cat trying to catch mice while wearing gloves...' ? Says it all perhaps ?

Thank you all for your contributions.
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 9:18:23 PM
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o sung wo good to see you around friend.
Any one notice how slow the site is today?
My first bet o sung wo was at age 5, 6 pence each way the horse Neville selwood was riding.
Continued till I left work, and cut the habit clean.
A thousand story's can be told, true ones, of dirty tricks and the fact you just can not win.
Unless you are a book maker or one of the criminals .
Current problem in front pages, includes a bloke, no names no pack drill, who at a charity function on stage!
*told the world more money was to be made pulling horses up than riding winners*
I have been totally hooked on greyhounds trots and gallopers.
My love for NRL football warns me, believe me and most followers, its often the controllers/judges who are most bent.
Do not mistake me, I have bought new cars on a days winnings, but in the end the game is crook and you should go in to it knowing that.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 8 May 2013 6:52:22 AM
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Dear runner,

I appreciate your decision to avoid gambling. Unless one owns the venue it's generally a harmful activity.

I attended two Atheist Conventions at the Melbourne Convention Centre. I do not gamble or smoke and had one taste of an alcoholic beverage this year. When I told my host I really didn't want any more after he offered me another kind of alcoholic beverage he accepted that. From what I have observed of most atheists they smoke, drink and gamble less than the general public does. The Atheist Conventions were picketed by both Christians and Muslims who were presumably disturbed about our spiritual welfare.

The Crown Casino was next door to the Melbourne Convention Centre. There were throngs moving in and out of that venue. However, nobody was picketing that den of iniquity. Possibly those who gambled also were likely to smoke and drink.

From this I conclude:

Muslims and Christians accept those who gamble, smoke and drink
But are mightily enraged by those who question and think.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 8 May 2013 12:12:32 PM
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o sung wo, truth is we would not be in the race.
Cleaning up such a sport has seen hundreds of years pass without successes.
My words re my form of football, league, is likely to be strange to those who do not follow the game, but is just as apparent in any game that brings betting.
NRL fines players and coaches, for just being honest!
That seems clearly to stop us talking openly about match fixing by on field and of officials.
One night at a suburban trotting track, I saw with my own eyes, a race fixed before the horses left to warm up.
Grey hounds have been fixed more often than let run on their merits.
If big money is involved so is crime.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 8 May 2013 2:34:18 PM
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david f

'From this I conclude:

Muslims and Christians accept those who gamble, smoke and drink
But are mightily enraged by those who question and think. '

you obviously have not seen the froth coming from the mouth of pseudo scientist when their gw or evolutionary fantasy is challenged.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 8 May 2013 2:35:56 PM
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Dear runner,

It is the pseudo-scientist who accepts the creation fables in the Bible as scientifically valid. There is no more reason to accept that than to accept the Aboriginal Rainbow Serpent account of creation. They are both mythology. There is no evidence for either.

Fables must not be taught in schools as fact. You can believe what you like but keep such nonsense out of the schools.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 8 May 2013 3:14:36 PM
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G'day there LEXI, and my old mate BELLY...

Dear LEXI...

Many thanks for those two Links you kindly sent me, I do appreciate them. Police are ALWAYS probing these alleged 'links', that organised crime and Horse Racing have, and continue to maintain. I was involved in several 'unsuccessful' inquiries involving the 'Collection' procedures, of debts between one party, owed to another, as a result of unsuccessful wagering ?

The 'principal' of the debt was one issue. It was the huge 'interest' incurred (circa; between 500% to 800% or more) that caused the original debt to become almost beyond repayment - unless of course it was substituted by another 'acceptable consideration' ? This whole business is rotten LEXI.

BELLY...

How are you old friend ? Not very rich I suppose, given your wager's were limited to only 6d each way ! Though, Neville Selward, from memory, was a pretty good Hoop, but I can't speak with any authority I must admit. Indeed, I've spent many an enjoyable night, at Harold Park, (on duty) and generally enjoyed the night, but only with Harness Racing, not so much with the Dogs.

From my own inquiries, most 'organised' crime figures are associated with the 'gallops', rather than that of Harness Racing. Further, from my own evidence, there's no component of the Racing Industry, that has not proved vulnerable to the tentacles of organised crime.

Though I have no experiential evidence myself, but it's my belief BELLY, that ALL sport in this country, that attracts any form of serious gambling, on 'outcomes' is in any way resistant to, or immune from, the unlawful intrusions and meddling from criminal influences. And that's my view only, and it includes particularly, the Olympic Games !
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 8 May 2013 3:30:30 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

It's so good to hear you back to your old self once again.
I'm sending you a big hug.

Horse racing like anything may have its share of corruption
but I've got to admit that I thoroughly enjoy the Melbourne
Cup. It's the only time that I indulge in betting. I love
the atmosphere, the fashions, everything about the cup. And
of course the thrill of winning a place, let alone the thrill
of picking the winner.

I grew up near a riding school - and to this day I still have
an affinity with horses.
They're beautiful animals.
I would love to live on a farm with horses, and
cows, and pigs, and a few chickens, and a veggie garden,
and...

Ah well, perhaps one day when I retire.
Posted by Lexi, Wednesday, 8 May 2013 6:58:27 PM
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They are not mutually exclusive. Horse racing could be both the sport of kings and the business of rogues. In fact many kings have been rogues and villains.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 8 May 2013 7:23:51 PM
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Good one, DAVID F !

Indeed, there've been many an English Monarch who've been out n' out Rogues. Some, albeit dedicated rogues, were quite good Kings too apparently ? viz. Henry Vlll was a pretty good Monarch, but he was, nevertheless a real rogue ?

LEXI, thank you so much for that BIG HUG, I very much appreciate it. I don't believe there's an Aussie who doesn't have a bit of a 'flutter', or enters a sweep during Melbourne Cup week ! It seems the thing to do, doesn't it ? It's all an important part of our precious Australian culture really ? As far as being lucky, I've not had much success, but my wife won her sweep, about sixteen or seventeen years back !

I'd also go as far to say, there'd not be a single Aussie person, who deep down, would deny they harboured a very special place within, for those stunningly beautiful thoroughbred horses !

They can evoke a really strong emotional attachment, when you have the rare opportunity to be with them close-up ! Even that peculiar, equine smell they exude while sweating after an exercise session, is not at all unpleasant or disagreeable ? Their massive size, together with their considerable weight makes one realise how powerful these stunningly prepossessing creatures are !

Gee LEXI, you're getting me all 'sloppy' and 'mushy' with all this sentimental chat, about our admissions of love, for horses ! Oh well, so be it then.

Thank you everyone for your contributions to this Topic, I appreciate it very much indeed.
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 8 May 2013 9:36:03 PM
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o sung wo the bet came from my pocket money, 2 shillings at age 5 or 6.
Both trots and dogs have seen race fixing , done by stewards! even top man in the dogs.
It remains true , history shows us, money brings crime.
Yet I did enjoy my racing days, and nights, like all gamblers thinking I could pick the one running on its merits.
My big wins came from not thousands invested but a few hundred.
I once without even looking at the form, had $50 each way a Newcastle trained horse, because its trainer tried always, it won, first start back from a spell and paid 73 dollars for every one.
Such wins often turn casual punters in to big ones, wrongly thinking they can do it often.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 9 May 2013 6:02:01 AM
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Unfortunately many have an addiction to the apostrophe and put it where it doesn't belong. The Sport of King's is an example.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 9 May 2013 6:33:32 AM
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david f

walk around with your eyes shut. Observation was always something real science valued. You obviously don't. Keep your head in the sand.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 9 May 2013 10:38:55 AM
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Dear runner,

Keep your head in the sand, and you'll never grow hungry because of the sandwiches there. Keep believing in biblical fables, and you'll never think because of the nonsense which is there.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 9 May 2013 11:00:37 AM
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As a copper, back in the Underbelly days I used to have a few 'free drinks' in a pub near Randwick racecourse. I could always get a winner or two there as well. I wonder if things have changed? I'd like one now.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Thursday, 9 May 2013 11:21:57 AM
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Dear runner,

One of the greatest of scientific observers was Charles Darwin. He also made great sense out of what he observed. Observation is only part of science. Data is the raw material of science. One must go on from there to make sense out of the data.

I also value observation and go out on occasional field trips with the Queensland Mycological Society to observe the local fungi.

What in nature do you observe?
Posted by david f, Thursday, 9 May 2013 11:41:06 AM
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The data-information-knowledge-wisdom hierachy has as its antithesis, absence of data, misinformation, ignorance then folly...

which might explain anyone who thinks that horse racing is a sport when it is merely nothing more than the excuse for horse betting.

Mind you, maybe someone didn't understand (or spell) correctly when they heard that people can profit from a gambol on a horse?
Posted by WmTrevor, Thursday, 9 May 2013 12:03:48 PM
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david f

'What in nature do you observe? '

the total lack of humility and pigheadedness of pseudo scientist who can't find one fossil backing their absurd fantasies despite millions being spent on in doing so.

The redefinition of a human being used by scientist (as did the nazis) in order to justify murdering babies. They refuse to look in a microscope.

the fantasies from pizza dreams in the explanation of something coming from nothing. (obviously to are blind to the simple fact that creation requires a Creator).

cheers
Posted by runner, Thursday, 9 May 2013 12:15:49 PM
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Dear David F.,

I've adapted this one for you from the web:

"It's plain as the face on your nose
The apostrophe goes where it goes
And shouldn't replace
A comma or space
That's something everyone knows."

BTW: My husband worked for an international petro-chemical
company in California whose strict rulings for written
communication were - not to use any punctuation and
the message had to be conveyed clearly and briefly and to
the point. Any new employees who overlooked this instruction
were reprimanded.
Posted by Lexi, Thursday, 9 May 2013 12:25:56 PM
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Dear Lexi,

Working for that corporation must have been of indefinite duration since one couldn't end one's sentence with a period.

Dear runner,

Once one assumes that has been a creation then one logically assumes a creator. That's a bit of circular reasoning since one assumption implicitly rests on another. One can ask how the creator was created if one assumes that something cannot come from nothing. Then one can ask how was the entity that created the creator created. Then one gets into infinite regression. It is sensible to discard the nonsense of creator and created.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 9 May 2013 12:51:59 PM
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Runner is one of those rare thinkers who considers an infinite regress of load-bearing turtles a simpler and more elegant explanation than a world freely floating in space.

Cheers,

Tony
Posted by Tony Lavis, Thursday, 9 May 2013 1:17:08 PM
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Then your husband would be regularly disappointed by the frequency of my editing mistakes. Already today I let a misspell of institution get through. Oh, the horror of it!

Doubtless there is a teacher lurking somewhere who might take us all to task for it. Not that I would mind because I have become very casual with my grammar.

Back to the OP, I am no expert on horse racing, having long ago given up trying to force some interest in the Melbourne Cup. Racing is cruel to horses and crime is always associated with it. However there is the occasional nice story, an example being the owners of Black Caviar who retired the horse before she was injured or broke down and will provide a safe green pasture for her indefinitely. Who wasn't a bit choked up by that?
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 9 May 2013 1:39:52 PM
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Gambling has always been followed around by corruption, they are hand in hand. The organised crime families from Calabria (N’drangheta) launder their money by putting it on a horse after the race is over and paying a bookmaker for the service. Rugby league on Channel nine has become the Tom Waterhouse show with his sales pitch for match wagers. You cannot clean racing up but it can be pushed into the background with reduced media coverage and some negative publicity. An example is that slow racehorses end up in pet food and as very few horses make the grade that is a lot of animal food.
Posted by SILLER, Thursday, 9 May 2013 1:44:06 PM
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Dear David F

A new sentence began with a capital and a new train of
thought began with a new paragraphNothing was indefinite
everything was conclusive

BTW when my husband gave notice that he was returning to
Australia they made every effort to convince him to stay
Posted by Lexi, Thursday, 9 May 2013 3:13:50 PM
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Hi there CHRISGAFF1000...

You were in the job yourself, back in the 'Underbelly days ? I'm sorry mate, I've not watched or read anything apropos the 'Underbelly' series, so I'm not entirely sure to what era you refer ? You're right, there's many a pub around Randwick that was used as a bookies 'clearing house' for the alleged SP operators ? You know the one's I mean ? Those who no longer exist as a consequence of the introduction of the TAB ?

May I ask, are you a graduate from 'cock-roach' castle or Goulburn ?

LEXI... I will have to admit and apologise, for I tend to overuse so many punctuation features and marks, and commas etc., you'd believe it was going out of fashion ? Please accept, it's simply a peculiar marque of an uneducated individual, who feels very unsure of his merit, in his expression and use of written English ?

When I was working we all tended to write very much like automaton's using a lot of official lingo and slang, peculiar to our industry.

Thanks everyone for your continued contributions, I appreciate it very much.

Speak with you again soon BELLY old mate !
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 9 May 2013 3:48:03 PM
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Dear o sung wu,

I make so many typos, and grammatical errors.
Plus I have to regularly check spelling.
I think we all do it. It gets worse when I'm tired
especially late at night and early in the morning.

Anyway, who cares? As long as the jist of what we're
trying to say is understood. I remember getting pulled
up by my mum when I was learning a different language
and she corrected my grammar. I got angry and asked her,
"Did you understand me?" She replied, "Yes, but that's not
the point." I wasn't game to yell at her but I did mutter a
great deal under my breath.

Now back to the topic...

Onthebeach evoked such lovely feelings about Black Caviar,
and I must admit that I also had a lump in my throat on
hearing that the horse was retiring. Bless the owners.
What a great thing to do for this champion.
Posted by Lexi, Thursday, 9 May 2013 4:02:04 PM
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Hi there BELLY and LEXI...

That's exactly what I mean BELLY, when you say even the Stewards were copping a few backhanders ! Aren't they the people who are essentially responsible for regulating, controlling, and administering justice, for Racing in all it's varieties ? In my opinion, it's far too easy to launder large quantities of money, openly and without too much official scrutiny ?

A solution to all that perhaps, we should create a local Taxation Branch, at all Courses, and have it linked into all 'On Course' Bookies ! Each time you lodge a Bet, it must be accompanied with your official Tax File Number ? The crooks would be beside themselves if such a strategy were to be introduced !

'evening to you LEXI...The mere mention of 'Black Caviar' would bring a lump to everyone's throat, I reckon ? She's an absolute icon in Aussie Racing, and her owner's did the right thing by allowing her to retire with good grace and the dignity she so richly deserves. She'll be recorded forever in the annals of equine History for all her accomplishments, and the sheer majesty and beauty of the way she gallops !
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 9 May 2013 10:03:31 PM
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Hello o sung wu,

I did my time at Redfern, went in three weeks back from Vietnam. Goulburn was still a pipe dream then although I did a stint there in Anti Terrorist training under John Avery who later became the only non corrupt commissioner I ever worked under. I worked with Wells, Gaskill, Fagan, Kelly, Rogerson in the ols 21st.out of the squads up at Darlo.
When I mentioned Underbelly I did so 'tongue in cheek' since most of that crap was "made for TV" rubbish.
The racing fraternity,sports and crime reporters together with the hard head coppers used to hang out at the "Ox on the Rocks" in those days.
Always a tip or two there.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Friday, 10 May 2013 1:55:31 AM
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Any one want to comment of Tim Priest?
While I am aware my thoughts are not based on personal knowledge he and this bloke at the inquiry in Newcastle look good to me.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 10 May 2013 6:24:01 AM
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G'day BELLY ol' mate & CHRISGAFF1000...

Indeed, Tim Priest was an excellent detective, the son of Rusty Priest former head of the NSW RSL. He (Tim) worked with the druggies around Fairfield and Cabramatta, and had a lot to do with the Vietnam community in that area. I heard he authored a book about his career ? A pretty straight, fair minded bloke in my opinion. I was at Parramatta when TP was over there, so we'd not done too much together in those days - he was a fairly 'thirsty' gentleman I believe ?? Not that I'd have any such knowledge of course ?

CHRISGAFF...

So you went through Redfern too ? John Sliger (dec) was OIC when I went through with Ian Vickery (dec), I/C of Physical Skills Unit. Ian, had been there for years and was an exceptionally good bloke. Frank FARRELL was at Darlo when I did my stint up there. Another good guy, particularly if you played League. As you'd know, Frank had a big rep. all the way along Darlinghurst Road, and environs. You served with the 21 Div., you were saying ? You mentioned Kelly, it wasn't 'Ray' Kelly ? Never worked with the 'Dodger', but was associated with him on several jobs though.

Actually Chris, my last major job was Op 'Haig' headed up by Ron Stephenson. All tied up with the Allan McQueen murder by John Albert Edward PORTER I heard after I pulled the pin (retired) he and his wife had been killed in an accident ? Ron was a terrific bloke to work with, so it was very sad if true ? Sure the dreadful murder of Allan was bad enough, but it diminished in comparison (considerably) as a result of the official Inquiry, into the shooting death of David John GUNDY which was conducted by none other than the 'Royal Commission Into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody'. As you'd know, we seemed to spend more time 'jumping the box' then being coppers eh ?

Thanks very much for your contribution too Chris, nice to speak with a former colleague
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 10 May 2013 2:40:38 PM
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Hi o sung wu

Farrell was the "Big Bad Bumper" of course, hard as nails and straight as a die and the Kelly was none other than Raymond. Wells was Kelly Wells I didn't want to confuse the two. All in and out of 21 div at various times. If you didn't know League, played league or had you kids and grandkids playing league you really didn't have much of a career in the job then.
I put in a few years around the squads even did stints in the 'boaties to get my nickel sidearm and Internal Affairs chasing the arseholes on the North Shore who worked the kids for their cash to avoid the courts.
I got my crown and went back into uniform. I had no ties so I worked every station from Bateman's Bay to Lismore. I finished up 2/IC Bowral before being seconded to QLD. in 87 to the The Fitzgerald Inquiry then back to Bowral out of uniform in time to be opted into the State Crime Command's Homicide Squad as Clive Small's liaison mainly because I knew the area well and especially the Milat family.
I still don't think he did it. The links to "Ustaše" were very strong and his father and uncle were training commanders in Yugoslavian training camps between Berrima and Goulburn. Our Govt was supporting their efforts to overthrow Tito in Yugoslavia. My theories were never welcome.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Friday, 10 May 2013 9:40:26 PM
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O sung wo the thread ended in my view too soon.
Such is the nature of many threads.
And an unwillingness to talk much about sport in this place.
This thought came to me yesterday.
Not just a lost game and blind supporter.
The NRL, once the working class game, now making billions from its fans from every thing advertisements to gate money and TV rights.
Yesterday [not a random thought, and not a original one, but a shared by increasing numbers,Much time could have been saved if the referee ans linesmen, had informed us who they intended to let win, before the game.
Bitter? yes but too and honestly held FEAR.
Betting on sport is killing it.
NRL would fine me $10,000 if I was linked to a club,for highlighting concerns most fans hold, just think, forget the drugs in sport, it shrinks along side the need not to say what you think!
Posted by Belly, Monday, 13 May 2013 7:34:55 AM
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Hi CHRIS...

Yes Milat, a piece of work to be sure. Had nothing to do with him, but the evidence, thus the brief was solid ? Interesting what you say though ? '...my theories we never welcome...'? Mate I've heard that before. As you'd know, it's not hard to fall out of favour in the job, doesn't matter how you go, it's easy enough to get off side with many of them. I must admit I don't miss it, but I miss some with whom I've worked ? Did you ever work with the old TRG ? Tommy Luptin and Barry Lewis & Company ? A great Bunch until it was disbanded and merged with others, into a very 'bloated' SPG !

Thanks again for your contribution. I really appreciate it. Speak with you again soon, I hope.
Posted by o sung wu, Monday, 13 May 2013 3:58:08 PM
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Hello o sung wu,
I kept as far away from the 'response' squads as I could. They had their job and I had mine. I managed to put in a year running the old Broken Hill Goal which remained in the Police brief where I finished my law degree (Prosecutors brief) mainly because of the Barrier Councils stand on only allowing workers who had family roots to get a job in Broken Hill. I was lucky because my grandfather actually started the Barrier Council.
After that I put in a stint in the police courts at Central with Murray Farquhar on the bench(he got 8 years)another Broken Hill boy after that it was general dogsbody; squads first and then traveling relief or fill in around the country circuits. Farquhar comes back to the corruption in racing. His best mates were "Hollywood George Edser and George Freeman, a real nasty piece of work that one.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Monday, 13 May 2013 9:10:27 PM
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'evening to you BELLY...

Ah well matey, that's life. Not many people like talking about murder rape and mayhem all the time, and I don't really blame them ?
And I'd have to agree with you, about the burgeoning commercialism associated with most sport.

Money always seems to 'corrupt', whatever activity it manages to entwine itself in ? In my view, the day they allowed professional sports people to compete in the Olympic Games, was the day it lost it's innocence, decency, and integrity.

BELLY, you would know as well as anybody, money (if it's intended use is destined for some iniquitous motive) tends to destroy everything and anything that's decent. Look at the burgeoning amounts of 'Performance Enhancing Drugs' found in the Olympics now ? Why would any of these fit, brilliant young athletes, ingest all these harmful drugs ? To win the big money, the endorsements, fame, lavish lifestyle, you name it. Tour de France...Tour de 'Corrompre' more like it !

Take it easy ol' fella, please.
Posted by o sung wu, Monday, 13 May 2013 9:28:15 PM
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'evening to you CHRIS...

Indeed, from memory Geo. Edser was 'warned off' every race course on the planet. Apparently, Edser had a 1st Floor Flat, on the high side along Allison Road, overlooking the race course ? Apparently he'd conduct his SP activities from there, using high powered Bios ? I Did a stint at Randwick, liked the area immensely, particularly around the Coogee Beach area.

George Freeman, like Leonard Arthur Murray aka McPherson, were both slugs. Lenny gave-up everybody, and it surprised many that he died 'peacefully' ? Small world too Chris, my first wife was sworn-in as a JP, by the lamentable Murray Farquhar, before he joined 'buckets' Jackson (former Minister for Corrective Services) somewhere down in Berrima Gaol for his corrupt activities !

You've done alright by the sound of it ? Did the job pay all your Uni. fees when you did your LLB? I guess you would've spent most of your time at Liverpool Street, or did you travel around the suburban Courts ? Are you in private practice now ? Sorry for the Q & A's sounds like you've done well, by all accounts ?
Posted by o sung wu, Monday, 13 May 2013 10:24:35 PM
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Chris and o sung wo, I have a weird story for you.
My childhood was in a few railway side towns, dad was a fettler.
Mum born in Bargo, dad in Bowral.
At about age 9 dad was driveing past Belagello state forest.
He told mum and us this tale.
Years before, even before my birth, he said a man had killed and buried his wife and kids there.

Think dad said the family was from Sutton Forrest.
Strange how life goes, I worked on a project DMR/RTA that Ivan Milat worked on.
After [police informed and have investigated] a body was found on a fire trail nearby.
Had schooling, just a short time at Bargo, unsure if they lived their then.
I know much of what you two speak of, not in the depths but read a lot and have had a few mates who as you would say are in the job.
May have to reopen Berrima to house the NSW FILTH after the Royal Commission, gee I hope if so it stays open for a long time.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 14 May 2013 6:46:13 AM
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Hi there BELLY ol' man...

I had no idea they closed down Berrima Gaol BELLY ? I was aware it held those on protection, including ex coppers too of course. It was a very historical place by all accounts, being one of NSW's oldest Prisons I think, next to Parramatta and Darlinghurst, the latter being closed many many years ago now ?

To your comments apropos Belangello Forest, and Ivan Milat. Chris would be far better acquainted with the facts touching on the activities of Milat than I, BELLY ? Having driven past the area on many occasions, it would not surprise me in the least, the number of secrets that particular part of the State would 'give up' if ever thoroughly and scientifically searched ?
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 14 May 2013 3:25:00 PM
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Hi o sung wo & Belly,
As we would say to the magistrate or Judge, "May I refresh from my notes". I will post a few thoughts tomorrow when I gather my thoughts. I can tell you that because of budget constraints we were told NOT to find any more bodies in Belanglo or to investigate possible bodies in the forests around Galston Gorge beyond Hornsby in Sydney. I used to get Roger Rogeston and Rex Jackson out of Berrima for weekend leave.
The network still operated back then. Talk more tomorrow.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Tuesday, 14 May 2013 5:42:29 PM
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Hi there CHRIS & BELLY...

"...If your worship pleases, my memory is exhausted, may I refer to my notes...' ? Today, I'd need to refer to the entire damn Brief, my memory is no longer exhausted, it's gone completely ?

Speak with you both on the next Topic ? Until then, thanks a lot for your very informative contributions, I really appreciate your collective input(s).
Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 14 May 2013 10:34:29 PM
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