Dear Hasbeen,

First, the Jewish issue is not to be confused with immigration: Most Australian Jews have been here for as long as any other non-indigenous Australian, some have even come with the first convict fleet to Botany Bay, so:

<<If they don't like what they find in Oz>>

When their grand-grand-grand-parents came to oz, they found here no electrical devices whatsoever.

Second, you assume that their reason is belief in 2000+-old pronouncement. That may be the case for some, but not all. One could for example observe the Sabbath because they solemnly promised to keep it to their mother on her deathbed.

Avoiding electronics on the Sabbath is more relevant now than ever and is very much in line with the original spirit of the Sabbath. While nowadays lighting of actual fires is no longer Laborious, electronic-addiction has become a modern plague. Most people now use electronics at work, but don't stop it when they arrive home to their families. A discipline of foregoing electrical manipulations for one day a week is a good detox program, not only for Jews.

Computer games are now available where one doesn't even need to touch a keyboard, a mouse or a screen: the computer just watches and follows the player's hand and eye movements. When one is on an electronic-detox program, CCTV introduces a dangerous slippery-slope: why would a recovering-addict say 'Yes' to CCTV, but 'No' to an addictive computer game that similarly doesn't require physical touch?

Third, if people were restricted for being stupid then...

Fourth, and most importantly, nearly everyone lives for something, dear to their heart and bigger then their physical needs - be it noble or stupid (such as being a fan of a football team). For orthodox Jews, this is the following of God's alleged biblical commandments.

If you allow government to rob what's most dear to others, don't be surprised if one day government will rob away the apple of YOUR eye.

I found this little gem on wikipedia:

>>Nobel prize-winning physicist Richard Feynman recounts that he was approached by young rabbis in a seminary who asked him "is electricity fire?". He replied, "no", but asked why they wanted to know, and was shocked that they weren't interested in science at all, but just wanted to interpret the Talmud. Feynman said that electricity was not a chemical process, as fire is, and pointed out that there is electricity in atoms and thus every phenomenon that occurs in the world. Feynman proposed a simple way to eliminate the spark: '"If that's what's bothering you, you can put a condenser across the switch, so the electricity will go on and off without any spark whatsoever—anywhere." But for some reason, they didn't like that idea either'.<<

Cheers,

Tony

I am unsure how we came to yet another minority, those of the Jewish faith who are orthodox.
Even in Israel they divide that community, with many unacceptable practices including a reluctance to live other than on governments purse strings.
Nothing racist here, I am pro Jewish, but with every shop having cameras, just about, and speed cameras, it is too late to say stop the world I want to get off.
Many of us, hopefully, heard of the mind seeming to set us on our lifes political paths, based on mind set.
Here I without reserve, think we are set to oppose small links to our privacy, concerns I see as unusual to the extreme.
Yet ignore the simple fact huge and real, not straw man, information banks on us are increasing and sold firm to firm.
I, rather than reduce our safety on the streets, think large paper bags eye holes cut may be the answer for those fearing being seen.

Not cameras but the IRS targetting of conservative groups applying for tax exempt status in the USA is I think relevant to understanding the ways those with access the power of government can misuse that power even in a situation where it does not appear to be government policy. http://m.apnews.mobi/ap/db_6776/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=bmDT8dvt

There are so many ways that digitally stored recordings could be used to selectively hurt individuals or groups. The technology for automated tracking of individuals may not be there yet but I think it will be soon.

Putting aside the misuse under an extremist government and working with a similar proactive approach from low level staff, its easy to imagine selective leaking of images damaging to one side of politics or some cause and hiding of similar by the other side.

I don't have neat answers, as others have pointed out we don't really have privacy in public places (and may have less in private than we hope for). The cameras may help in some situations. At the same time think that placing additional power in the hands of government and its functionaries is something that should be subject to serious consideration.

R0bert

RObert I am aware of the American situation.
But while concerned, even aware both sides world wide target the other this and other ways.
Miss using the power we give them.
It is far away from a council doing what most rate payers want all to do.
Installing cameras to help cut crime and catch offenders.
We all, should/must? confront in a world that has real dangers of terrorism and increasing disregard for law we need any protection we can get.
Rather cameras than American gun culture.