rojo, I think you are pretty much on the mark with your comments. We actually have a socialist mentality in general (reflected in the fact that we have set up and maintain a socialist state). This mentality is also demonstrated in the vast willingness of the Australian people to dig deep and donate to those in need during times of crisis. To make any further improvements to the system would be dependant on the recipients of assistance being willing to take it as a hand up and not a hand out. Eg I respect your right to bum around the beach and surf all day, but I shouldnt have to pay for it because I choose to work. On the other hand, if you are a single parent of small children, then I have no problem with some of my earnings going to help you through that time. The problem is, that the more people rip off the system, the more disillusioned the contributors to that system get.

Country Gal, rojo -

In reference to economic theory (not cultural), what you both describe is essentially social liberalism in a nutshell - the idea that the market can dictate the minutiae of supply and demand, though there is a role for government to pick up the slack where market economics do not act in the interest of citizens.

As opposed to classic liberalism, which describes the market as the be all and end all goal for society.

When faced with the flaws of classic liberalism, its proponents point to the fact that the system has never been properly executed, as protectionism and regulation exist everywhere and prevent trade on an equal footing, be it international or domestic.

Ironically, the socialists can put together a similar argument for their system.

I'm of the view that either system in totality is damn near impossible - we're looking at two diametrically opposed visions of economic utopia. Depending on who you ask, each can be heaven or hell.

Which is why I tend to think that debates on such a broad level are doomed to failure, and you're better off focusing on the issues at hand... but that's just my view.

One of a large family I grew up in a far less welfare state than todays.
Social welfare did not play a big roll in my life, but I have seen a great deal of waste in that field.
miss using the system is rampart, my new Socialism would never be inclusive.
And never a hand out, accountability for every dollar spent is not unlikely.
We and the world will not forever be doing this well, right now we do hand out sit down money and get no returns.
If I found myself out of work I would rather a job than dole check.
But a whole lot of issues could be handled better, more low income government housing.
And CG even in my birth place more worthwhile help for drought stricken country towns.
Why not a government paid for scheme to divert some river water and waste water inland?
Above all this should not be a leftist thing but something for a caring country.

Socialism is now just a very dirty word.

NO_ NO-no and no; Your kidding?
Socialism is Communism with a few mutating synthesis factors;It is a preditory word that denotes Looting and nothing else.It is a pathological disorder that denotes and underminds peoples actual abillity to acheive, and even when people do acheive, it is then stolen by higher Socialist Uprovdome Dictates.
Socialism in any form can only exist on the basic principle of propaganda and lies.
What a sack of Trope theological steaming fretilizer- That is Socialism.

100 odd years of murdering an mayhem puts it on par with primative socialism that is Jihad; whoood a thunk it?

all while I understand your post and the reasons behind it I hope you understand 2 things.
The great difference in the 2 communism and Socialism, the fact communism knew the difference and blackened the name Socialism.
And that my thread is about a new far different Socialism.
Why different? easy I like many in a partly miss spent youth thought one or the other of use to mankind.
Not for the first time I was wrong.
Communism makes slaves of workers and nearly every one it controls, it is the enemy of freedom.
Socialism ?I have not seen it work other than as a dictatorship and freedom is too good to waste.
We do have partial Socialism now.
But one day soon capitalism may stumble and even if it never does I would like a more caring sharing world.
Public ownership of some things would not ruin the world.
Why should government run Telsra say not be run well?
Or why can government run trains not run on time?
Far from waste my new Socialism would ask for returns on investments.
Do we think sink or swim is a worth while way of life?
Would you pay for better services?
or are we bound for profit makers running every thing?