This mornings polls ask that question.
The yo yo like 1 or 2 point change is now normal,first one then the other gain a preferred leader status but both fight a never ending fact,more dislike than like them.
Lets concentrate on Gillard.
Todays poll says more Labor voters prefer Rudd.
In fact look closely at the poll.
It seems universal Gillard cannot win.
I am forced to ask why is the ALP committed to defeat?
On the day Kevin Rudd was knifed was some promise made to Gillard?
I must continue to look for a reason this Government is willing to fall rather than change.

maybe its the same reason Labour backs Turnbull as Liberal leader. Just look at last 3 picks. Poor Kim Beasley must feel sick in the stomach.

Belly, you have admitted yourself that labor are in for the flogging of their lives, Gilkard or no Gillard, as John Huston couldn't even loose this upcoming election.

So my I'll informed opinion is that nobody other than Gillard actually wants the job.

My prediction is that once they are trashed and reduced to a hand full of seats, Rudd will come in, unopposed, pick up the scraps and start about the process of rebuilding what's left of the former labor party, in hope that one day he can be PM again, that's provided time is on his side.

That's step one.

Step two will be to find a trigger for a DD election, won't be hard cause we will still have the greens with a say, then throw the entire senate out and start afresh, and hopefully the greens will become a failed experiment as well.

So in essense, I dont think it's as much a case of labor supporting Gillard, as it is of a lack of interest in others to face the music, because let's face it, about the only record labor have left to break, is that of the shortest primisterial term in history.

Now, if the libs can make even the slightest bit of headway towards rebuilding our economy, stopping the boats and regaining the nations trust, a huge task I might add, then chances are Rudd will run out of time, unless of cause he chooses to set another record for the oldest PM in history.

Dear Belly,

When I first joined OLO The Forum I wrote that Kevin Rudd had been stabbed in the back by Gillard Laborus, Brutus Laborus, Cassius Laborus, et al.

You responded by telling me that that was crap, that I did not know what I was talking about, and therefore must have the brain of a 10 year old.

Now you are going around telling everyone that he was stabbed in the back!

I'm glad to see that you are now agreeing with me.

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/pm-facing-landslide-loss-in-new-poll/story-fncynjr2-1226599417855
Two comments one, fails to attempt any answer, runner in his usual spite and nothing like any Christian I ever knew.
Rechtub too fails the test.
Just why, why is Labor contemplating its near death.
NSW is much more than harmful, in truth my party has not yet begun to face this.
If it was not an ALP issue picket lines would scream for justice, cash collections to support action against those who STOLE from the people of NSW would be massive.
Much to gain, if the ALP CONFRONTS ITS RIGHT WING.
Who promised Gillard immortality if she knifed Rudd.
Surely only such a promise can be keeping her in power.
LANDSLIDE, than is the headlines month after month.
Such an out come puts power in the hands of Liberals for 2/3/ even more elections.
Why.
Why are the factions, far too powerful, ignoring Kevin Rudd,s popularity?
Why are both party,s putting up leaders who often have more not trusting them than those who do, as the polls show.

Kevin Rudd would be mad to take hold of the reigns on the eve of a disastrous election for Labor.

All the King's horses and all the King's men cannot put Labor back again ................... before September!

Keep Gillard and let her shoulder the blame.

Mr Opinion,welcome to the I'll informed club.

What you have to understand about Belly, is that he is never wrong, but I love him dearly.

What Belly fails to see, or a least admit, is that in order to replace a leader, you first must have a show of hands from those interested.

Need I say more.

It was Rudd and Gillard who stabbed Kim Beasely in the back.Kim was the only honest credible person they had.The chickens are roosting Belly.

Keep Gillard and let her shoulder the blame.
Mr Opinion,
Yeah, but that would let the other incompetents off the hook.

Belly first I agree with the other comment, you need someone willing to take on the job and at the moment its a very toxic chalice.

Maybe you should be asking why the Greens are backing Gillard. When they did the "Labor has walked away from our agreement" thing recently it was made clear that they would not vote in a way that would bring down the government while Julia was leader but if she was gone that agreement would go with her. Can't remember the specifics but from memory it was on votes of no-confidence and or blocking supply.

If Labor did swap leaders (assuming they could find someone willing to take on the job) the new leader may not be PM for very long at all.

R0bert

Robert & Belly,
Never mind the Labor pollies, what about the many, many families they have let down ? How about some compassion for them ? Stuff the pollies they have their million plus payouts & won't lose a minute's sleep over those whose lives they ruined.

So most Labor supporters won't vote for their party if Gillard is their leader but Liberal supporters will still vote for their party in spite of Abbott's unpopularity?

It makes no sense.

The media were largely behind the dumping of Rudd before the last election and now are campaigning to have him reinstated?

It also makes no sense.

They have been tipping some sort of coup almost every week since the last election.

It seems like a bogus campaign orchestrated by the media for their own ongoing benefit and the opposition to distract from the discussion of any real issues.

rehctub - What you mean is just when they see the iceberg the captain says who wants to take over the SS Titanic.

Never mind all the backstabbing stories, the real reason Rudd was dumped was because he was impossible to work with - from his staff as well as his Ministers. His micromanagement style led to numerous policy backflips when things didn't go the way he wanted them to.

There has been an election since that time and Gillard became the elected PM.

Likewise Turnbull was dumped because he ignored his National Party partners and, like Rudd, refused to take advice from others.

Both have egos too large to manage and both are irrelevant in the current campaign.

Rache is right as far as I am concerned Belly.

There were very good reasons why Rudd was 'knifed', and Gillard was by no means alone in that decision.

So I don't see Labor backing Rudd for a return at the top job, no matter what the opinion polls say, because they are the ones who have to work closely with him.

I believe Gillard will remain at the helm until the election, and then she will be voted out soon after.
Maybe Bill Shorten, for want of any better choices...

Dear Belly,

You ask, "Why is the ALP backing Gillard?"

My guess would be that she's done a good job in
holding together a diverse and quite difficult
group of votes in the Senate and House of Reps
and has pursued the business of government with
some efficiency with many bills going through
unopposed and many others passed with narrow margins.

In that sense her role as head of the executive process
of government has been impeccable, so why wouldn't the
ALP continue to back her?

Fixing the problems of the ALP requires more than changed
leadership. The control by party machine men and relying
on bad research to justify egregious policies that prove
the government is tougher than the opposition would
still be there if the PM was removed or left.

The PM has many characteristics to be admired.
She has a strong sense of who she is, what she stands for,
many negotiator skills, the ability to stay cool and
collected under considerable pressure, a good parliamentary
performer, and I suspect a warm personality up close.

It would be way too easy to blame her for the general behaviour
and direction of the party she formally leads. She is not
solely responsible for the mess Labor is in at present.
She was not responsible for the disposal of her predessor.
That only proves the power of the party itself.

Dear Suseonline,

You can get a hint of what will happen from the following movie titles: "The Return Of Rudd", "The Son Of Rudd", "The Rudd and I".

Ruddly Do Right is hated by his own party because of his treachery and self indulgent narcissism.Labor's lack of talent and fidelity is reflected by this reality.They have no one of any credibility to replace the two most incompentant lying treacherous leaders we've seen since Federation.

The biggest fear of the ruling elites is that their puppet Labor will be replaced by a party that truely represents the people.

Well, as I’ve said before; the answer to Labor’s woes is obvious. Gillard needs to come out and enforce her statement of three years ago that she wishes to see a sustainable Australia, not a big Australia, which is something Bob Carr has been very strong on for decades.

She then needs to hand over the leadership to Carr!

He is the third most popular person for the job after Gillard and Rudd, although unfortunately he has said that he is not interested. If he was interested, he’d in like Flynn, I reckon!

I would say emphatically…

BOB, WE NEED YOU!! The country needs a sustainabilityist as its leader very badly indeed.

Labor is down and out. They’ve got nothing to lose by embracing a political paradigm of genuine sustainability, centred on a series of big annual reductions in immigration and the achievement of a stable population as soon as is reasonably practical.

CARR SHOULD BE LEADER. Gillard should be his deputy.

And Rudd should be nowhere to be seen!

"Gillard should be his deputy"

Not a way to reduce Carr accident stats.

well it seems Carr agrees with you Ludwig.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/ministers-desert-pm-20130318-2gbba.html

he helped stuff NSW with his corrupt mates.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/trouble-brewing-but-dont-blame-it-on-the-usual-bloke-20130318-2gb8m.html
I found every post interesting.
Mr opinion we did not hit it off from day one.
I am aware I took offense with you often.
But not those words in relation to Gillard knifing Rudd.
I have taken the boot to what I have loved all my life, and will continue to till death.
The ALP and my Union.
Because the knifing of Rudd was BETRAYAL of both and all who need both to be strong, for our country,s sake.
I watched heart broken, as my words, not just recent but from even my working days, that bought me as a union official in contact with McDonald,slime in the extreme, and many in NSW Labors right,who murdered my party here.
My head is in a spin, just how can my party have produced men , not the filth they are less than that, who did nothing while NSW under Labor was infested with robber barons?
And tell me, I need to know, how can the once driver of my party the right get it so wrong in putting Gillar don the throne.
Maybe she belongs on what county Aussies call the throne, onefar out back.
Reconsider how we fell out, Mr opinion your charge is untrue.

I must admit it, often tell others to read all contributions, then comment.
I took offense at Mr opinions and Rechtubs slash at me, not guilty never said it in that context.
But read the polls folks and review your memory's.
I a student of politics, not claiming I am always right, knew only this pre Rudd knifeing.
Saw reports of his bad temper and was uninformed and shocked at his dumping.
Most of you got the idea he could not be worked with after the dumping, released by Gillards supporters.
Now those polls, even Lexi must see, they show Gillard has zero chance of victory.
NOTHING CAN CHANGE THAT.
But those polls too show a Rudd leadership change turns the polls upside down,Abbott would have no chance, as the polls say of beating him.
Taking the bits of polls you like and ignoreing the rest? madness.

Dear Belly,

Retaining Gillard as far as I am concerned could show that the Labor Party has some principles. Although both are flawed Gillard seems to me much more competent as a leader.

A political Party can better its electoral chances by appointing a popular but incompetent leader or they can think it is more important to have a more competent leader even though that leader may be less popular.

although there is much to criticise in Labor I think they are making a principled choice. Keating was onto something when he said, "The souffle does not rise twice."

Couple of things Belly. I am dyed in the wool Liberal. If I was asked who I preferred I would say Rudd just to hobble Labour. Lesson one do not trust your enemies to help you because they will not!
Every professional criminal knows to never plead guilty and delay the legal process for as long as you can. This is because things can come out of left field and you are off!
Same in politics, you never know what fortune can bring you. Mind you the flaw in the second statement is that Craig Thompson could plead guilty or that the two NSW sleazes could be arrested in August.
Sorry Belly no sympathy I suggest you go with Rudd, refer my previous comments.
And before you complain about me again I humbly apologise to the whole world lol.

Dear Belly,

There was a time when I felt some sympathy for the rusted on ALP supporters. You ask the question “Why is the ALP backing Gillard”? Answer, they are not but the Union leadership is and at least 75% of Australians don’t care either way.

The socialist elites took control of your beloved Union movement a long time ago and now run them as officials. Through patronage, cronyism and voting clout they have now taken over the ALP and caucus. They remain unrepresentative with 13% of the general workforce and 19% if you include public sector Union membership. Yet the ALP ministerial representation within government is 90% union heritage. What is it you find so difficult to grasp?

The Union membership is like a flock of sheep being fleeced. It is so easy to continue to follow a 100 year old ideology because no cognitive skills are required, you just follow.

The Unions still blow hard on attacking the bosses, big business, Banks, big oil and mining and yet you fail to see that the main culprits of ripping off the Union memberships is the Union leadership itself. When the HSU, Obeid and AWU rips offs hit the press, where are your membership? You’re like a bunch of Turkeys cheering on Christmas.

The Australian electorates have had enough of the divisive, vexatious, wasteful, centralized and power hungry ALP politics. We put you on notice in NSW, then QLD and now WA. You are still not listening and continue bleat about your own internal machinations. Great, this will get the ALP wiped off the electoral map for generations.

Keep up the good work, keep Gillard, you can have Kevin, your welcome to Shorten and we look forward to seeing much more of your ALP MP’s when the Royal Commission begins next year.

Spin doc do you know I agree?
Yes men in suits have taken over the ALP, and no hiding it, strange do you understand only few here know?
Know my life,s love drove the bus that ran over Rudd.
Forgive me folks, but putting this subject up bought out denials, see some, both see the death of Labor, based on the polls.
BUT ignoreing the fact.
Rudd is much loved, OUTSIDE the Parliament!
He , with no doubt, could have reduced our loss, at the least.
So, any answers? so far I see comments, personal views and biases, how do we ignore the question why?
Look with me to September the 15th.
Post train wreck, already plans are in place to put the head knife man in Gillards shoes.
By then, by God I hope! some of the leftist NSW FILTH, sponsored by? left to kill my party by? Sussex Street right!
Will be in prison, Labor in 2007 faced calls it could not be trusted with the economy, GFC and all we wiped that out.
In 2016 we will confront t5he miss use of power of factions and be back to 1970, faceless heart less and brain less self serving men.
Tell me, how did the suits kill the working mans best friend, and how any ALP voter can be conned by them they axed Rudd because he wanted reform.
davidf a truth, your kind heart is blinding you, post election it will be clear Labor will linger in opposition for at least a decade and look back at lost opportunity we see today.

Well Belly I hope Labour remain in opposition for ten years or more but I would not count on it! The larger the defeat the more hangers on you will lose and then you will get more people of principal in Labour and they will soon be forgiven. For God's sake Labour ruined Victoria and yet the bleating about Jeff Kennett and what he HAD to do is still going on.
Here is a tip, stop the corruption of voting and ensure members vote for good representatives not shifty little club.
Oh by the way the GFC is going to come back. Mark my words you aint seen nothing yet and Australia will be in as much of the brown stuff as the rest of the world.INMO.

Dear Belly,

I do feel for you and I appreciate your honesty. You ask how did the men in suits take over, how did this happen?

It happened by stealth, so slowly that most of those rooted in the foundations of the Unions and ALP never saw it coming. Blinded by ideology rather than thinking for yourselves your membership always and perhaps still do, take the view that the Union movement and the ALP have the best interests of the “working person” at heart.

This was achieved by “selling” an old ideology, to which most of the left would respond, when in fact the new paradigm is more to do with the power and authority of a different ideology.

You and your fellow Trade Union membership have been used and abused. It is no longer about “you”, it is now about “them”. Their power, their state pensions, their prestige and their ability to use your support for their self interests are all that count.

When did the Trade Union movement ever represent such values? The answer is never because the Trade Union movement was founded on the principles of fighting against such values. The Trade Union movement, to its eternal credit, always represented the best interests of those employed by the man. It fought tooth and nail for reforms that were specifically for the benefit of the membership. I have absolutely no problem with that and in that respect they did a fantastic job.

I find it very sad that the principles against which you fought have now been adopted by those who seek to represent you, your own. The leadership of the Trade Unions now have their snouts in the trough of the very “corporate pigs” that you once fought against, you have been sold out by the principles of self interest.

It is now up to the movement itself to recognize and act against those who have usurped your trust, distorted it to their own benefit and trashed the values you once held close to your hearts.

Well Belly I wouldn't give up just yet. They still have another 6 or 7 months to go.

Individual "Never mind the Labor pollies,"

Not real concerned for them, none are likely to fall on genuinely hard times as a result of being tossed out of office.

I am interested in who gains from Julia staying on as PM longer.

I don't think it helps the coalition, it may if all goes smoothly help them pick up a few more seats but the real test for them won't be this election, it will be the one after. The longer the election is delayed the bigger the mess they have to clean up and cleaning up messes tends to make coalition governments unpopular.

It's unlikely to help Labor, an optimist might be hoping that Abbott stuffs up in a way that changes the election outcome but that's a long shot. He's not done well enough to become personally popular over the last few years but neither has he made himself unelectable despite a very strong personal campaign aimed in his direction. It's more likely that delaying the election with Julia as leader will just makes the election a bigger disaster for Labor.

The only ones I see gaining as they are the ones most likely to pick dissatisfied Labor supporters as Labor implodes. Some of them might vote Liberal during this election but when they want to go back to the left the more damaged the Labor brand the better for the Greens to have a chance of getting some of them.

I've noticed that a significant portion of those on OLO telling us what a great job Julia is doing also say they don't vote for Labor or the Libs and I doubt that they vote for Katter.

R0bert

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4581706.html
This link is of interest.
It even stoops to let Latham get a say.
He brilliant man he once was, did nothing to understand the party, its factions and knew nothing of Unions.
How many know?
Some will but not the most, knowing and understanding is unneeded for some,however.
Latham/Gillard/ and Crean three failures, each as surely linked to the other two, still.
Link has poll a different and interesting one.
I truly wounder, true, why do people think I wear the sack cloth and ashes publicly about my party.
I may have owned suits, but never was other than a bloke.
Let me be honest, suits think they can mount the stump,like a bantam rooster leave the little pile on the stump and leave, content they have been heard.
Frustrating , but my job was to hear those other blokes and women, members, tell me what they truly thought, but in the end I at least got membership forms.
Average Aussie wants nothing to do with the Comrades, the chances of more than 5% singing solidarity forever are nil.
Yet they are willing to join unions but not the ALP.
CHANGE AND REFORM WILL TURN THAT AROUND.
as HEADLINES threaten me, this morning, threat my party,s instant near death! CREAN AS leader? no please we have suffered enough.
Tell me.answer my question, why are we outside ICAC in Sydney screaming for blood in the thousands?
Why are we intent on our own defeat by keeping Gillard safe in the arms of one union, my lifetime union.
Are we in training? to sing solidarity forever as we scuttle the ALP under the weight of suits who are out of touch with membership and reality?

RObert you have tempted me to respond to your post.
Some things I need too to say.
First I would return to my job, as union official without pay if the chance came.
HSU and the actions of some, even in right wing unions, are not the average, and I know my past mates think as I do about both.
But at the hot end of unionism, away from the factory floor, few under stand, or have even heard, members threaten to resign if they are addressed as comrades again!
A day will come that sees unions grow, taking the opportunity to recruit even conservatives, as sure as I am here.
After however reform,s distance both ALP and its birth parents unions.
Currently Union heads, not members, took Rudd down, and back a once so far left woman you needed help to see that far.
Been to the races? have a bet? Gillards form looks like the clerk of the causes horse and she will follow the Ambulance home in the big one.
But reforms will result,and my inside detractors, may their lieing mouths weld shut! will say they always knew it would be so.
Detractors in party and union, not here.

did nothing to understand the party,
Belly,
If you really were to look at the situation & think you'd find that Latham had too much integrity for your party hence his being crucified.
That's the difference you don't comprehend, party- people not party people.

Why is the ALP backing Gillard?

It's obviously not because her untrustworthiness nor her gift for creating crisis after crisis, it has more to do with the complete lack of a viable alternative.

Rudd who is the most popular is tainted both by his incompetence in governing and the vilification by Juliar's supporters.

The alternatives are Shorten Crean and Smith. All political light weights with little public backing.

Juliar has driven HMAS ALP onto the iceberg, and no one is stupid enough to take the helm on the way to the bottom.

SM, you have omitted any mention of Bob Carr?

He is Labor’s third most popular potential leader and is a political ‘heavyweight’ compared to the ‘lightweights’ you mentioned.

I think your omission of him, while mentioning every other possible leader, is very telling.

<< …it has more to do with the complete lack of a viable alternative. >>

The only reason why he is not a viable alternative is apparently because he just doesn’t want the job. If he did, I reckon he’d be their man, for sure…. and he’d be in the position within a couple of days!

Crikey, I can see Labor making the worst possible choice going for a return to KRudd!

Heavens above, I hope Bob sees the folly in that and puts his name forward if they are heading in that direction!

I never seriously considered Bob Carr, for various reasons:

1 He is a senator, which makes it difficult to lead the lower house.
2 While he is an experienced politician, he is federally a newbie.
3 His record in NSW is far from spotless, and his association with Obeid is a huge vulnerability.

Shadow Minister I know you can do better than that, we fight, and it will always be so. three above mine here, you matched individual in scrambled thoughts that are untrue, baseless and silly, you can do better indy can not.
Ludwig, mate, I respect and like you.
But bloke know you are mounted on your hobby horse the wrong way around.
Despite indys references to me not knowing the people or is it party, who truly cares.
I know this much Carr was once while Premier of NSW asked to go federal, at that time to be come Labor leader.
I wanted it, he did not and still does not, Carr, once held great power in the center unity group, he dos not now and never will, its a shame, but true.
You my friend dislike Rudd because as every leader of every party says, he wants the big Australia you and I see as a threat to our country.
Have read many links today, about Gillard, I think the challenge may come, if not this week May.
But know, the thing that haunts the ALP, factional power brokers, will continue to put their interests in front of the party.s.
Can any Labor supporter think we can win an election with this dead fish around our neck? read the polls.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/reforms-are-wounded-and-the-damage-is-selfinflicted-20130320-2gg0y.html
So we have stalled.
Not surprising.
Of late I have been even more than usually sharp in my comments.
But is it better not to speak as we see it?
Maybe pretending some thing very bad is good is the first step towards total agreement with all that is wrong, in Australian politics.
The link highlights the brash and rude Conroy, a power broker in harness with Shorten, and along with the Union out side Parliament, the current and recent past, owners of the ALP.
We if we look, will see true reason for concerns at recent events IN EVERY Liberal state government.
Much more is given to Labors ills, as it should be, the filthy fingers of Obead have gone to the funniest man.
A former National, remember that, then independent, who became the hope of Nationals, to beat Windsor, the Heroic ex National then National again, was bought and paid for by the biggest grub in this country Obead.
A truth, to Lexi, if I had never whispered a word about my party,s decline, had SM never refused to see any good us.
The truth would remain true.
While Labors policy,s, those not tainted by Gillards *tought lady without brains* hands, are great.
We are outstandingly better than our foes, foes they are including media.
But this woman, her power brokers, union mates, refuse to even consider the proud history of the ALP.
If today Gillards bus came along my party may survive.
IF we all take for the briefest time, our eyes from the side we hate, and demand better from our own, a third of both sides would be forced out of politics many on both sides in to prison.
We become more like America every day, every one is getting kick backs.

Dear Belly,

When all else fails you can always bash the United States.

In the United States the National School Chaplaincy Program and subsidy to private schools would be illegal. In the United States legislators are free to vote their conscience, the views of their constituents and the good of their country against the party room decision without being disendorsed or penalised. In the United States there is separation of powers as visualised by Montesquieu. The US has many flaws and is the dominant power in the world, but would you prefer a world dominated by Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan or Soviet Russia? That's what would be without the United States. Would that be better?

Well they are not!
Standing by Gillard.
The spill takes place at 4.30 today.
Tony Abbott asked a question, the two supplementary, then is still standing on his feet putting a very weak vote of no confidence in her, just hours before her party does the same.
Tony may feel the hairs on his neck standing up.
He is witnessing his fate.
He too, as a result of his carbon tax stance, and the loss, to him of his best asset Gillard, will stand in her shoes of this day soon, before the election.
I have seen today and in recent weeks a far better Fitzgibbon, and Crean, tomorrow I will see my party much better.
Every political party has its politicians, who are in fact the *Wise Rodents who live in that legendary out back Australian Dunny*
We all will see them emerge at 4.30 this afternoon, and in time not far away that brings the downfall of Abbott.
A better Australia the result.
But the question remains, on both sides WHY did we have to live with the wrong leaders for so long?

I see an election in 6 weeks, and with Rudd in charge, Labor will still lose. Everyone forgets scrapping the border protection, the collapse of the mining tax part 1, and the vicious criticism of Swan, Roxon etc that will come back to haunt Labor.

If rudd wins and calls an early election, it will be the easiest campaign for the Coalition. Hockey was already sharpening the spears in parliament today.

Well I got that wrong, as wrong as the two posts under mine above.
Rudd did not stand.
Because he knew he did not have the numbers.
My party is as split today as it was in the DLP days.
Its current owners, those who stopped the Rudd/ALP victory, the AWU/Labor right, won a right to drive my party head on in to its greatest loss.
They unseated Rudd, to its praise worthiness the NSW right partlty, came back.
But the right is owned and controlled by AWU inside and out side the party.
Abbott survives, because Gillard is as bad.
Today, AWU/Labor right gifted Abbott victory.
See above all the cat fight in Parliament, to back not just the worst judge of policy's in our history, Gillard they ignored.
Even took for granted both union and party voices crying for change.
Thanks for that, thanks for just maybe 23 more years in opposition.
MS Gillard? tough? the day you go my party breaths again.

Boy has the red witch put Ruddy on the point of the sword.

If he doesn't challenge he's a pathetic little woos. He'll have to resign from parliament, to preserve his ego.

If he challenges & looses, he is a pathetic little man, no one wants.

If he challenges & wins he's a pathetic lame duck PM, about to get his butt kicked by a bloke who can't string 10 words together.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke.

Of course who ever wins, the majority, us, all loose.

She really is a female Latham isn't she? They would make a perfect pair.

Just imagine, in a perfect world, the pair would have married, & been happy ever after raising lots of little vipers.

So we now have a government with a majority of one, and a ruling paty which is bitterly split something like 55-45.

The Gillard supporters hate Rudd more than they do Abbott, and the Rudd supporters hate Gillard more than they do Abbott.

And we still have 177 days to go to the election. Unless something drastic happens.

Given that the Labor party will be decimated at the election, the task will be - is now - start planning to salvage, re-form, re-assess and painfully re-build.

But perhaps that can't even begin as long as the party is so divided. So clearly, in order to save it, both Rudd and Gillard have to be expelled from the Labor Party, for life. A stop-gap leader could then take the Labor Party to complete defeat in September, if not sooner, and then get on with the job of re-building, over the next three or vour cycles.

I'm about the same vintage as you, Belly, but I honestly don't expect to see another federal Labor government in my lifetime.

What could have been ......

Joe

So Juliar survives because Rudd was too much of a coward to challenge.

So much better for Abbott now that it is clear that Juliar no longer has the support of the ALP.

What a day this has been.

I was watching News 24 and listening to the
commentary from various Labor MPs who were
so certain that Kevin Rudd would challenge
the PM. He didn't. And Simon Crean
has found himself without a job. Ah well,
politicians are like poultry - roosters today and
feather dusters tomorrow.

At least any sort of leadership challenge has now
finally been put to rest and the Party will get on
with putting the blow torch onto the Opposition -
holding them to account for their reform agenda,
policies and costings.

The government can now
continue with the business of governing. There's
still so much to be done. They've already
Passed many bills unopposed (and many others passing with
narrow margins). I watched the PM's performance today,
and I have to admit that I admire her ability
to stay cool and collected under considerable pressure.

The next six months are certainly going to be interesting.

It is all misogyny, glass ceilings and that [*BLEEP*] Rudd. Can't be anything else.

Now we will see the Real Julia, 'hyper-boles' and all. Hmmm, maybe another make-over might help.

I'm standing by the "Presumption of Innocence" for Ruddy. He's not been convicted in a court of plotting against the PM so any suggestion that he may have done so is just smear.

R0bert

I told you so
I told you so
I told you so...

NOBODY WANTS THE JOB.

Now, just how long and how many more acts of incompetence do we have to endure before these so called independents say, enough, is enough.

What a joke.

"NOBODY WANTS THE JOB"

Butch, Rudd wants it but hasn't got the numbers. Personally, I'm looking forward to hearing nothing from the indiscrete and egotistical Joel Fitzgibbon, who promises now to shut his fat gob. Actions speak louder than words and all Labor MPs better get to campaigning rather than whinging.

We've witnessed the first step towards Labor winning the unwinnable election, as Keating and Lyons have done before.

What a great day. Rudd didn’t become PM!

That is just fantastic!

I was feeling gravely depressed this morning as it seemed that he was indeed going to rise from the ashes.

<< If he doesn't challenge he's a pathetic little woos. He'll have to resign from parliament, to preserve his ego. If he challenges & looses, he is a pathetic little man, no one wants. If he challenges & wins he's a pathetic lame duck PM, about to get his butt kicked by a bloke who can't string 10 words together. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke. >>

Heheheeee!

Yes indeed Hazza.

Kevin Rudd kept his promise?.
He did not stand because his number crunchers told him, minutes before he spoke, he did not have the numbers.
He did have many more than last time, had he the numbers I think he would have been a candidate.
Rudd will never again lead the party.
He in my view will leave the party, this could be at the election, or soon after, QLD will vote solidly against Labor, as the polls show.
Gillard, backed by ALP PTY LTD, Shortens ex AWU team, AND Bill Ludwigs team inside and out of the Parliament, will as Crean [ back on track now] did in the Latham /Crean/Gillard trio, will pass her wounded leadership to her field Marshall, Bill Shorten.
Labor, now headed for an assured defeat, has two things that may lessen the loss, Abbott, and the unlikely as it seems,Labor may find the ability to sell its message, highlighting the carbon tax and in detail, Abbott,s planned reduction, same targeted reduction, and the quite silly way he proposes to get it done.
Poor fella my party.

A PS watch the polls in the next two months
And unfortunate truth will emerge.
One Gillards ALP PTY LTD team, owners for a time of my party, have ignored.
Voters do not want the tough lady.
In fact if Abbott went under a bus, driven by Turnbull?
Climate change, two party,s, same reduction target.
One telling us its childlike policy funded by taxing us to pay offenders?
This interesting thought.
Abbott,s policy,s may just wound him enough by election to remove him.
Leaving ALP PTY LTD standing at the starting blocks.
Question, will she put Rudd in a ministerial roll?, it may keep him from resigning pre poll.

Dear Belly,

Don't you get it? Of course Rudd didn't want to challenge Gillard. Why would he want to lead Labor to its obvious defeat at the September election?

When Labor is left in ashes after the election Gillard will be sent to the backbenches forever and Rudd will emerge as the Phoenix from those ashes to ressurect Labor. He did it in 07 and he'll do it again in 16/17!

Abbott as PM will put his foot in his mouth on an almost daily basis and will make Rudd look like Jesus Christ! Yes and the book shall read: And on the 16/17 he arose from the dead and walked among us.

Perhaps you're right, Mr opinion, but I don't think there is room in the Labor Party for two show-ponies, or even one.

So the problem is: how to convice both Gilalrd and Rudd to resign from the Labor Party and allow a fresh generation of leadership to build a new Party.

While either of these turkeys is in Parliament, Labor is doomed.

My two-bob's worth :)

Joe

Dear Loudmouth,

Problem with your argument is that Rudd is no turkey!

Plus, with Gillard's career shot down in flames after September, who is there in Labor who can compete against him?

If you know of any bookies giving '1000 to 1 on' against Rudd returning to the leadership of Labor after September please let me know. Easy money!

Mr O I'm not quite sure just what Rudd would have to do to qualify as a turkey, & I sure don't think anyone should maligne turkeys in that way.

No definitely not a turkey, but most definitely one of the dirtiest bits of slime ever to appear in Oz public life.

How anyone could see that hand on heart "I'm keeping my promise" bit of tripe from the pathetic gutless slob, & not be disgusted I really don't know. I guess some Ozzies are just so thick nothing can get through.

Anyone with a promise from Rudd to back them, should be damn careful, just ask Beasley. They need not fear a knife in the back, or front, he doesn't have the guts of a Gillard. No it will be a slow drip of poison, administered in the dark, similar to what he is doing to the party that once elected him.

An on line poll on MSN asks the question “Do you think the ALP leadership crisis is over?” Responses say “NO” by about 6:1.

The ABC thinks it’s over, as do the ALP, Caucus, the Trade Unions and much of the progressive media. Given that these all got it wrong after the last time Rudd had a tilt at the windmill, I guess we can be certain the Rudd will find a way to continue to torment the entire Gillard government.

The majority of Australians don’t care either way as they will put an end to it in September, that will be a very definite end to it. Just like NSW, QLD and WA.

Gillard is doing precisely what Christine and Anna did, reducing the ALP and its parasites to a token rump.

Dear spindoc,

I have only one thing to say:

Go Gillard! You definitely are the feisty bitch you keep telling us that you are!

I heard some gits saying something like Gillard is a tough Lady. That's no tough Lady, she's a sheilah with egoistic stubbornness.

I really do not like Julia Gillard for a myriad of reasons but what about we just drop all the abuse? Here at least we should pick up shortcomings of people rather than just throw insults.

No not buying the thought Rudd did not want the job.
He begged for it.
After numbers men found he probably would not win he caved in, he should have stood.
The Conservatives here will not let light in, on their anti Labor thoughts.
The polls said he was wanted.
A faction Lord won.
He will be Labors next leader, look good doing it, to most, not all.
He like Gillard, is uninterested in party reforms.
Rudd let me down yesterday,along with himself and his followers inside and out.
Gillard, is not bright enough to be that shrewed rodent living in the out door dunny.
Look only at the failed policy,s with her name on them, however Shorten, her successor, will look at keeping Rudd from leaving, give him a ministry.
He has a part to play in our country,s future, it is not in federal politics, he finished that yesterday, hiding from opportunity to rebuild the party.
Shorten stands just out side the spotlight , but has the power to see Rudd is offered a role.
After all his power breaker partner can bring men to his office wearing red undys on their head, and to produce failed policy,s that bought us to yesterday.

Dear JB,

Thank You for your reasoned appeal although I
suspect it will fall on deaf ears.
Intolerance is the most socially acceptable
form of egotism. It permits certain people to
assume superiority without personal boasting.

<< I never seriously considered Bob Carr, for various reasons:

1 He is a senator, which makes it difficult to lead the lower house. >>

Shadow Minister, he COULD be PM and remain in the Senate:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/carr-could-become-prime-minister-in-the-senate-20120311-1us9y.html

Now this is something that might just work strongly in Labor’s favour – having a PM who is a senator. Just simply this difference could present an interesting new aspect to Australian politics that people would be willing to support… not least because we are all heartily sick of the current setup and are really hanging out for something a bit different.

This in combination with Carr’s eminent credentials for the position could be a Labor winner!

Well, old KRudd did the best thing he’s ever done and not challenge Gillard. But I reckon the leadership wrangle is not yet over, because Gillard really does have stuff-all chance of winning the next election. Labor’s got to do something really different, and that’s the bottom line.

A sustainability-based policy platform, led by Carr, from the Senate. What a wonderful idea!

Sorry Luddy old mate, anything run by Carr would be a greater catastrophe than even Gillard could manage.

Just remember NSW used to be prosperous.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-pms-famed-toughness-is-exposed-as-a-terrible-flaw-20130322-2gl9f.html
J Bower/Lexi, most of the true hate mail, that is the end product of such name calling is based on fear.
Fear and no understanding.
This link is not one that flatters those in control of my party.
It however shows the fact ,as the polls do, its future.
I hold my hand high, to admit a truth, my words come in fear, for my party, its future and its present position.
Nothing can,in the modern world, hide the truth, the NSW ICAC has not yet ended its flogging of my party, a *Party that should, now, turn on those who used it and turn with intent*
Not to, as in the federal party not to, face the grievous need for reform, is to insult those from our past who left us a far greater party than todays.

If Rud had challenged, the best he could have achieved was to softened the blow at the election, however to do so would have meant breaking a promise, which is something labor are now renowned for.

I believe he will lead the party after the election, however I also believe Gillard will step down, so he will simply pick up the scraps.

Now as opp leader, he will still be able to prance around and look good, he just won't have his hands on the cheque book.

Now that's a win win if ever we could have one.

Dear Belly,

Political parties appear and disappear. They arise because they appeal to and fulfill the needs of groups of people. In power they also fill the pockets of those who represent the party. We have to accept that as the inevitable consequence of being in power. When a party is almost solely preoccupied in filling the pockets of its leaders and no longer does a job in representing its constituency it will disappear and be replaced by another party. That doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Loyalty to a party which no longer has any purpose or meaning is pointless.

However, I don't think that is the case with the Labor Party. I still think there is a need for a party which represents the working man. The Labor party's record of concern for the environment is much better than that of the opposition. Neither party has any particular concern for the separation of church and state which I think is important in a democratic society.

If Labor's defeat means that those responsible for its defeat will still stay in power in the party it will be tragic. If Labor's defeat means that it will try to get back in power by discovering its original purpose of being for the workingman and promoting social justice then most of us will benefit. Unfortunately, I don't think it will improve itself while it is in power. Occasionally it is time for a change. I hope that people like you will take over when Labor gets thrown out.

what about we just drop all the abuse?
JBowyer,
if you're referring to my post then I have to inform you it wasn't abuse, it is an observation.

Labor is not to blame for the mess, it's the ALP that's doing it all. It's not Labor's fault that it's name is misused by the ALP. It's the pseudo-intellectuals who claim to be academics who have invaded Labor like AIDS invades a body. The method of spreading the infection is the same by the political equivalents of the human reproductive parts.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/how-it-all-went-so-horribly-wrong-for-labor-20130322-2gl6y.html
Rechtub I am sorry you said as you did in your last post here, and sorry you got it so wrong.
See Simon Crean, for the right reasons, at the wrong time, finished forever my dream of a Rudd return ever.
He may get an Ambassadors place, even from Abbott, but will never again lead my party, we are poorer for it, the link is worth the read, for every one who wants truth to play a roll in their thoughts.Individual, I wounder if you under stand the power of words, written ones exist for a very long time, are not throw away insults, but firmly there to be seen for a long time.
Rather than yet again highlighting your posts, the picture they paint of you, let me tell you about mine.
I am a front row forward, see my task as tucking the ball under my arm[ a ball I produced and stand by] and running!
Are you pleased to be considered one of the last some look to for balanced and understanding comment?
I am content to be disliked, to get it wrong, but never to be seen as a poster of just and only insults.

David f words flow free-er if we speak face to face, if you and I did that we would find much to agree with.
Sadly I know the power brokers that drove Labor on to the rocks won this week.
After the fall,you will know it too, they stole the lifeboats.
Gillards best backer will succeed her Bill Shorten, a bright Intelligent and likable bloke I until recently Idoliz4ed.
Reforms under his leadership will be only window dressing, his power well earned badly used comes from the union movement and Labors right.
By now I am rubbish, in both, but party first idols last if it is clear they think other wise.
Simon Crean may not know it, yet he may have, every step of the way, but he put Abbott on the PM s chair.
And Shorten in opposition, trying to look the part with 25 less seats!

<< …anything run by Carr would be a greater catastrophe than even Gillard could manage. >>

Haz, Gillard and Abbott would both continue down the all-growth-is-good-and-faster-growth-is-always-better antisustainability path to hell. It is pretty damn irrelevant who wins the next election in this regard.

It appears that our only chance of breaking away from this complete ABF*CKINGSURDITY is for Bob to get the top job!

What ever you think of his record in NSW, he is THE ONLY person in the top echelons of Australian politics who has a sustainability ethic strong enough to translate into some real changes in the right direction.

And this has got to be as important as just about everything else put together!

Ludwig I like you.
I would love to know what you do about our trees.
I understand your liking Carr, I like him too.
You ever met him?
I am lucky enough to have his photo on my wall, with the great Kim, and me.
Others too, from a night to Celebrate the man Carr served before he became, ignore the insults,the great leader he was,NSW.
However you are trying to swim up a waterfall, a very big and fast one.
IF asked Bob would kill your dream, instantly.
He took the Choice job, one Rudd did as well, maybe better.
But would not have restarted his political life, for any other.
A brilliant man, ignore the junk comment, but you ask him to do what he never will.
Watch the polls, watch those who made this remark to reporters.
Gillard is awful, but better than that *&* Rudd was the target.
If Crean wanted to, he could not have served Gillard better and my party worse.
May would have been it for her.
It may still be but you and I will have no say Shorten owns the spot you reserve for Carr.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-24/poll-shows-unease-with-labor-leadership-instability/4590800
No joy in the link for me.
Just a truth I can not ignore.
One no one should.
Tony Abbott intends to take away the carbon tax.
Head he says, for the same reduction , with an imposable plan, that sees polluters rewarded and us pay.
Tell me how disliked he is, how stupid, even cruel his plans are.
Then take a deep breath.
And understand, Gillard is so unloved she can not beat him?
Labor voted its self out of office last week.
Stamp your feet hold your breath, call me traitor.
But in the end I am still right.
AFTER OUR LOSS, so very many gutless men and women, in my party,s caucus, will emerge like the worms they are, to tell us they wanted change!
Congrats to Liberals on their victory won last week, no need for September 14 results are in.

<< However you are trying to swim up a waterfall, a very big and fast one. >>

Probably right Belly. But you never know.

Labor is absolutely desperate to recover lost ground and win the next election. The country desperately needs a change in federal politics towards a balance between the demand for everything and our ability to supply it, instead of the demand forever increasing and all our efforts at increasing economic growth just chasing the tail of this increasing demand, which is the stupid side of growth.

And I reckon that there would be a great deal of support in the general community if Labor were to make a concerted push in this direction. But in order for it to be believable, Carr would have to be leader.

I think Gillard has a genuine sustainability ethic, especially where it really counts: with population growth. But she has proven herself to be capable of saying one thing and then doing something entirely different in this regard. So she’d have to go as leader. But she could make a good deputy!

It is all so eminently sensible. One has got to wonder why it isn’t happening!

Could it be because Labor is just too closely associated with big business, which forces the continuous-rapid- growth burden upon them??

This stuff should be at the forefront of debate in the lead-up to the election.

So Belly, please don’t dismiss this stuff about Carr becoming leader and Labor embracing sustainability as being too ethereal to bother discussing here. While it may be an extremely unlikely occurrence, it is still very much worth talking about and pushing as hard as we can.

BTW, while I seem to be the only one on OLO pushing this, there is a great deal of support for it in the circles of Sustainable Population Australia and the wider sustainability movement.

Sorry bloke it is pointless us tossing this back and forward,s, it just will not happen.
BUT before the election day, my party,s owners the right.
Will eat humble pie.
See they, the blind mice that they are, still think Rudd and his followers are the problem.
IGNORING this truth, voters do not want Gillard.
Each new poll will show not much change in Labors polling.
I think only Gillards Black Knight Shorten has any chance.
But if it is after the loss, faced with Labors shattered few left, he would not want to bruise his ego, so who?
Labor sold its sole, with gutless Gillards mining tax back down.
Do not dream they will be a full on conservation party, it too is not on.
Gillard, exposed by her half wit policy,s, can no longer blame others.
She however has in my view enough traitors to my party to keep her producing junk policy till after the train wreck.

Hi Belly,

I suspect that one thing is sure: that neither Rudd or Gillard will ever lead a federal Labor government again after September 14.

Maybe the only way to heal the Party and lead it to a more-or-less honorable defeat in September (or before) is to see off both R and G and choose a Unity candidate, to heal the rifts, and to salvage what can be salvaged at the election, then to prepare the way for a new leadership team.

Of course, that candidate would have to resign in dignity, to make way for a hard-working, young new Opposition Leader, once the dust had settled, and help to build that new leadership from the back-bench.

So that certainly rules out both R and G. Enough of Narcissists. Expel them both now, for the good of a thoroughly reformed Party.

Crean for PM !

Dear Loudmouth

"neither Rudd or Gillard will ever lead a federal Labor government again after September 14."

I agree with you on Gillard but definitely see Rudd taking back the leadership after September.

1. he wants to be leader 2. he's too smart to take over prior to an election they cannot win 3. he knows there will be a lot of Australians who will be disappointed if he doesn't become PM again.

Oh well, at least you will be in for a surprise!

Yeah, won't we all ?

No ...... only you.

Well Belly, there is one posetive you can take out of this, that being that once your beloved labor party reaches ROCK BOTTOM, the only way from there is up.

Two problems I see

1. Have they hit rock bottom yet?
2. Do they have enough time left?

Your good mate Kim
I recall seeing one of the funniest cartoons in the paper about Kims popularity, or should I say, lack of it.

He was walking out the door, dressed in a singlet and shorts, with a pork chop tied around his neck.

The caption was, "he said to his wife, on the off chance the phone rings, I'll be down the back playing with the dog".

Yep, you shaw can pic em.

But seriously mate, your parties problems have little to do with leadership, as it's far deeper than that, as the present day labor leader is simply a front man for the faceless men, as it is they who pull the strings, not the leader.

Now until this changes, I doubt they will make headway.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/alp-boss-calls-for-more-grassroots-say-20130324-2go2w.html
In my defense!
The link is from the very top of my party.
While avoiding the rather harsh, but true, words I use, it shows the same concerns.
As our country stands very close, do not under estimate this truth!
To for a while being in effect a one party country,this shows the reason I fight to see true reform comes.

Rechtub , mate, if ever I need to ask you for advice on this subject please shoot me.
I think I can stand by my record, for putting the boot in to filth in my party.
BEG someone from your side, well maybe a Liberlal or Nat, not right of Tea Party, to highlight the troubles on that side of the river.
I see great policy,s mixed with some of Gullible Gillards rubbish.
But we have not yet hit rock bottom.
NSW ICAC is only part way in to its death roll.
Gillards crew are not yet finished murdering my party.
We hit rock bottom on 15/9/2013.
And shrapnel from our death dive, Bill Shorten takes over.
People will love the bloke, I will see his skills but remember his kill, the ALP.
Above all the murdering of party reform.
Do you know I can not sit and watch or hear Gillard?
How many Australians think like that? want to bet it is less than 30%?

<< Sorry bloke it is pointless us tossing this back and forward… >>

Belly, I beg to differ. Nothing related to how we may achieve a sustainable society is pointless.

However, talking about Labor leadership without connecting it to fundamental policy platforms, let alone the overall imperative for a big change in political direction, is nigh on pointless.

What else could Labor possibly do to win the next election?

You suggest Shorten as leader. But no, that will definitely not cut it.

Think of what the country needs. Think of people being generally smart enough to see this. Then think of Carr and a full-on sustainability push. It all fits together beautifully.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Carr create most of the mess that is now NSW?

If so, why then would anyone even consider going there.

Bill Shorten has already made his reputation in Australia and overseas,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/27/bill-shorten_n_1459923.html

Luddy just because Carr & you are on the same page on "sustainability", does not make him any smarter. Looking at his efforts in Foreign Affairs indicate he has definitely not gained any ability since his stint in stuffing NSWs prosperity.

His inability to think things through means his unintended consequences nearly destroyed NSW, & would do more harm than good to millions of ozzies.

His ego prevents him from taking advice, [& I doubt he can read & understand history], hence he has to make every mistake himself to learn. Mate, we just don't have the time, or the capacity to pay for his mistakes, particularly while paying for Ruddy's & little Julia's as well.

Mate you have to look further. The long term result of a twit like Carr would be a bankrupt nation cutting down all it's trees to use as cooking, & house warming fuel. Sustainability that ain't.

Belly
You could also ask why isn't the ALP backing Rudd. There may be very good reasons and if you still have contacts within the ALP maybe you could determine these for yourself.

Although I understand the ALP's concern about possible loss at the next election, backing a highly unsuitable leader (and all the problems it brings) is not a worthy strategy just to save a few marginal seats.

"""
Bill Shorten has already made his reputation in Australia and overseas,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/27/bill-shorten_n_1459923.html
"""

Hehehe! Bill (has anyone got an opinion for me?) Shorten.
Simply breath taking :~(

And to think people on this forum see him as some kind of god?
Un-fruiting believable!

Juliar really must be a witch. What else could conjure up pheromones so strong as to put the rest of her party in such a stupor?

Standard stuff Rechtub, from you, his leaving saw NSW ALP rot on the vine.
Pelican, well Rudd did his dash, he knows it and the reason?
IF the numbers had been on his side he would have ran without doubt.
I am wondering how long he remains in the house, wealthy in his own right he may want a job.
And it may just be to run hard in the election pretending Gillard is not an anchor, then leave.
Ludwig in this case you can say never, Carr will leave politics on the day his senate seat needs re electing, and shine in other things.
Any one else hear Gillard? complaining about just what she did? funny stuff.
Raw Mustard Shorten if you understand the knifing of Rudd, lead even there.
His every life move has been toward the PM chair.
He will be loved is good at his job, I at least know the bloke you smear him without that backing.
Post the defeat, we need other than a power broker, not someone saying he is for reform when clearly no union or ex union head wants it.
First thing reform does is return the party to its members.
They have shown they do not want that , need a dumping spot for ex union heads and the ALP is that.
Got to turn Gillard off, she is on TV swearing, not as much as me, in her new crawlers/team.

<< Luddy just because Carr & you are on the same page on "sustainability", does not make him any smarter. >>

Haz……. I think it does!

It makes him smarter than most pollies!

Anyone who can appreciate the sustainability imperative and can see how utterly antisustainable our current system is, is definitely smarter than your average politician.

You knock the stuffing out of poor old Bob each time I mention this business, which I have many times now on OLO. Well, I think you’re probably right to some extent. But that’s not the point.

The point is that we have so desperately got to start steering our society towards a sustainable future, and it seems that Bob is the only one up there in the top levels of our political circles who could get this happening.

Belly....Standard stuff Rechtub, from you, his leaving saw NSW ALP rot on the vine.

Yes, a bit like Anna Bligh/Peter Beaty's QLD mess, they are gone, but the mess left behind has formed a mountain that is unable to be climbed without serious pain being incurred.

Something that labor and their supporters just can't accept as their own doing, as it was their (labor's) waste and missmanagement that have caused the mess.

Kinda rings a bell, QLD, NSW, FEDERAL, with history to back it up.

One of QLD's biggest contributors was poor oppersition, which allowed labor to become extremely complacent as they stood no chance of being voted out until Campbell came along.

I told you that the moment it was announced, just like I told you Gillard would become PM, yet you continue to tell me I am I'll informed.

You and I come from different sides, whereas I have always created jobs, while you (unions) only focus on saving them, often at any cost.

So Gillard is one tough lady?
Never liked or had respect for that type.
Never knew one who could find her bottom without a map.
Who will she and her crawlers blame for todays polls?
Can it be this developer of cash for clunkers [she would be worth a quid], and so much more forgettable flops think being tough is the answer.
Can her crew of miss fits say now Rudd has gone, think voters lifeboats, she will get the voters?
Rechtub rest, you weary me, and just may get a seat in Gillards front bench if you talk nice, she is looking for supporters.
To go over the water fall, with her then be dragged to the train wreck
that follows

<< …a bit like Anna Bligh/Peter Beaty's QLD mess, they are gone, but the mess left behind has formed a mountain that is unable to be climbed without serious pain being incurred. >>

Too true, rehctub.

Some on this thread lambast Carr for the state NSW was in after his long tenure as premier. But compared it to other states and other premiers over the last 20 years, it is not significantly worse.

Hey, Carr, Beatty, Bligh, etc, etc, have been trying to do the impossible – accede to the demand of the voters to not significantly raise taxes or levees in any form while trying to bring about real improvements in this, that and everything else, while the pressure on everything steadily increases due to population growth.

It is asking the impossible. It is no wonder it all gets tangled up in misallocation of monies, overgovernance, corruption, gross inefficiencies, lies, and/or the perceptions thereof.

So, if we really want to reclaim some respect for government, see some large-scale genuine improvements in health, education, infrastructure, etc, have a healthy economy that is working properly for the whole of our society, have a healthy environment in which to live, and so on, then we’ve absolutely GOT to embrace a paradigm of sustainability, with an end to population growth at its core.

We need a paradigm in which we don’t have to have constant rapid economic growth in order to struggle to stand still! That is: in order to try and maintain the same level of services and infrastructure for an ever-rapidly-increasing demand base, let alone implement real large-scale improvements!

continued

It is just pure insanity to continue on in this manner…. which is exactly what Abbott would do….and Rudd if ever he should lead Labor and the country again.

Carr has been talking about this stuff for decades. He’s the man for the top job.

Whether or not he’ll be able to implement it is another thing altogether, given that he didn’t really achieve much along these lines in his decade as NSW premier (although he would rightly blame the federal government for imposing a rapid immigration influx on Sydney) and given the power of pro-growth vested interests, but…

… we simply MUST make a move in that direction….and we really do have the most excellent opportunity at the moment, with Labor sunk to an unwinnable position if they continue on as they now are.

They are desperately seeking an answer to their woes....aren't they??

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/doug-cameron-anthony-albanese-opposed-push-to-strip-ian-macdonald-of-preselection-icac-told/story-e6frg6nf-1226606710798
The link is direct to the heart of the actions of the NSW FILTH.
Do not however over look the power not of leadership, but factions within Labor.
Nothing new about them.
But of late their have both hands around the throat of my party, hence working Australia.
Named are Luke Folly, Labor Left , Albanese, Labor treasure, he is just that.
But so tied to the star of the ALP, Days long gone, factions and solidarity the party needs reform like it needs air.
It will not come, not until factions agree to an open vote a vote for the party not the faction.
Ludwig, no intention to insult you.
But my dream leader cut his own legs off last week, his support will never return, best he go.
Never, not ever, will the party give Carr his chance.
Look towards the current owners of the ALP.
Bill Shorten, his some what rude and idiotic mate Conroy, to lead, factions can reward themselves- for my party,s problems they imposed on it, strange stuff!

Luddy if you want to get some policies, which are most likely to be unpopular, with a huge prospect to be a catastrophe, particularly when managed by fool bureaucrats, you need someone with some proven ability. The last thing you can afford is a twit, who has been proven to get most things very wrong, but push on regardless. He would set any possibility of what ever you want back decades.

I say what ever you want, as I have no idea what you are talking about. We have fool ivory tower academics, who know so little it is ludicrous. Long haired radical ratbag hippies talking garbage. Reasonable wise farmers, & you talking sustainability, & I'll bet that is at least 4 entirely different things.

To give us some idea, do you;

Believe in east coast water being used to give Adelaide a nice fresh water water sky venue?

Believe wild rivers is a good policy?

Believe private cars should be banned?

Believe trees should be harvested to build housing?

Believe in wind power?

Believe in eating meat.

Do you still believe CO2 causes dangerous global warming?

You can see there are so many things that you may be suggesting with that one word, sustainability, that I have no idea what you are actually saying.

Why don't you give us a thread on the subject?

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/preselection-rumble-over-labor-seat-20130326-2gsde.html
IF Hasbeens comments are directed at Bob Carr, then he does not understand the subject Ludwig.
This link, for observers who want to understand why Labor is in a mess,is informative.
It highlights the power and influence, not truly related to the party,s health some own and miss use.
Conroy shares his power with Bill Shorten.
It has not yet finished its
Cyclone like path of damage in the very heart of Labor.
Too, evidence is clear politicians, not branch members, intend to tell the party who gets a run at the seat.
As Gillard has most support from women, I warn a problem is on us, more women entering Parliament on Labors side risks a growing concern, surely the best candidate without reference to sex is the one who should win.

Haz, thanks for your interest. Perhaps a new thread just on sustainability would be a good idea.

But hey I do regularly outline the basics of sustainability as I see it. I do this repeatedly because I know what a fuzzy word it is.

It is simply the achievement of a balance between supply and demand for our essential resources, infrastructure and services and which is achievable in an ongoing manner, with a big safety margin. Most importantly this means curtailing the demand for all of this stuff.

It is so fundamentally important. I find it absolutely amazing that there wasn’t an inkling of this sort of thinking evident in Rudd’s tenure as PM, a strong hint but no action in Gillard’s…. and none to be seen with Shorten or Combet. Kelvin Thomson is very strong on this stuff and Craig Emerson has a small sway in this direction, but on one here is talking about them as potential Labor leaders!

To answer your questions…

Me not undastand da foist qweschun.

Wild Rivers? Yes in principle.

Ban private cars? No.

Trees to build houses? Yes

Wind power? Yes, as part of a diverse renewable energy strategy.

Eat meat? Bloody oath mate!

CO2 Global warming? Yes to anthropogenically released CO2 fossil being a causal factor of climate change. But rather than addressing this directly in Australia, we should be mindful of peak oil, or at least the rising price of oil and how that will affect our economy on all levels.

So, if all those who support a sustainability paradigm give the same answers, does this mean that you reject the notion of sustainability?

You have previously agreed with me regarding population. So I will take a guess that you broadly agree about it in principle??

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-27/cameron-tells-icac-macdonald-27deserved-to-leave-with-dignity/4597076
It is only fair, that I go on record saying I am far less than a fan of Doug Cameron.
In fact he is from the left of reality, if such as he ever ran the ALP we would not have enough votes to get party status.
Two points need expressing, as information to those unaware.
Cameron, his very left mates, is the reason the right gained total control.
But the second point is very important.
This link shows the factions, after long standing rules, get to say who fills some seats and, without reference to ABILITY serves up positions in Labor.
The right does too, and the result is todays Union heavy weights, inside and out side Parliament, controlling my party.
Ability's lacking, clearly includes the ability to understand Gillards polling is not as a result of Rudd, any Labor member who holds a seat, but Australian voters.