Dear Bazz,

Thank You for the book references I shall
certainly try to get a hold of them through
the library. But more than that -
You've raised so many valid issues
and given me much food for thought for which
I'm grateful.

Another resource thatis very much in short
supply is fresh water. Although ours is a watery
planet, most of the water is in the oceans.
The bulk of the fresh water is frozen in icecaps
or hidden underground aquifers, so less than 1 percent
of all the earth's water is available at the surface
for human use- and much of it is in the wrong place.

Yet modern industrial societies require huge amounts
of water for domestic, agricultural, and industrial
purposes. I've read that it takes 120 gallons of water
to put an egg on the breakfast table, 15,000 gallons
to grow a bushel of wheat, and 60,000 gallons to
produce a ton of steel. American society consumes
enormous quantities of water - more than 2,000 gallons
a day per person, which is more than three times as much
as the Japanese use.

Another concern is that all over the world, and especially
in the less developed societies, the pressure of the
human population and its technologies is devastating
natural ecosystems. This pressure takes many forms -
urbanisation and highway construction; transformation of
of virgin land into farmland, chemical pollution of
fresh water, dredging and landfil in coastal areas;
uncontrolled hunting and poaching especially of
African wildlife; deliberate and accidental o=poisoning of
wildlife with pesticides, disruption of natural
predator-prey relationships; strangling of millions of
birds and fish with discarded styrofoam pellets, plastic
bags, and other synthetic flotsam, dam construction and
irrigation; and massive deforestation.

As far as getting politicians to listen to us. We
can't give up. If enough of us continue to join in
the right to have our voices heard and we continue to apply
the pressure - then we just may be able to make changes.
As history has shown us - the collective action of people
can achieve change.

Ahh, yes Lexi, you mention water as a concern.
There is also phosphorous and another few more elements developing shortages.
Heinberg wrote a book called Peak Everything !
Not far wrong either.

Search on the library for James Kunstler. He is a bit way off the
planet but he does think we could live in small towns very comfortably.
He wrote two fiction books, 1st in the series World Made By Hand and
the 2nd in the series The Witch of Hebron.

They are placed after the collapse and the US government is rumoured
to be somewhere in Wyoming.

It was interesting to look at the google view of the towns in the
books in upstate New York where he now lives.

Dear Bazz,

Again Thank You for the book references.
You've given me enough to keep my busy
for quite a few months.

Nice one Bazz,

Unfortunately this all seems like 101 reasons why socialism is failing. Whilst we have been busy strangling western economies and our wealth creators with socialization, it has taken us some time to take notice, now we have noticed and the left doesn’t want to cop it sweet so, look over there, is that a Unicorn?

Spindoc, Not sure it is either caused by socialism or is the death of
socialism.
I think ultimately it will result in a merge of socialism and capitalism.
Industry will be very local and will be small time companies so that
will be the new capitalism, and communities will be very much more
reliant on all the members of that community, the new socialism.

For instance, government funded old age pensions will either be non
existent or will be a pittance.
Unemployment benefits will likewise reduced to near zero.
Most governments have unfunded pension funds, and debts that will not
allow the pensions to be paid. Australia is close to that.

Food production will be very local, except perhaps wheat.
Airline traffic will gradually, hopefully, decrease until only the
very rich or government ministers are travelling by air.

I know that sounds way out, but it is a natural consequence of a
decrease in available energy.
All this of course would be modified if enough nuclear stations were
built to power the economy and transport could all be converted to electricity.
There might be a job for you as a stoker on a coal fired 747 !

Unfortunately some who know have calculated that we have left it too
late as there is not enough credit and capital available to do the job.

Hi Bazz, Yes but!

So eliminate everything before the word “but”.

Your explanation is far too complicated to be true. Your comments embrace a wild and diversified body of “opinion”, far too wide to have any meaning other than a much diluted version of events.

If you want to have an impact, you need to focus upon some key points and then substantiate them. This ever broadening spectrum of “explanations” for everything and anything is just an example of “I have all the questions but no answers”.

Why is it that you have the ability to articulate so much detail but lack the capacity to drive home any point? The best example of your scattered thinking is embodied in your assertion, “I think ultimately it will result in a merge of socialism and capitalism” WTF does that mean?

If you cannot define either socialism or capitalism in relation to the topic then of course you can only draw such a conclusion. What is it, what does it do, what are the effects, what will be the outcomes, what are the benefits and who will be the beneficiaries?

Your diatribe moves further and further away from any form of reality until it is so diluted as to be meaningless. What is it you are trying to say for pities sake? Your post stimulates only those who are driven by emotion, no cognitive skills are ever invoked; only “Yes, I feel the emotion”. You are off with the bloody fairies.

Come on, you can do better than this.