/cont

We saw the same thing with sea surface temps where models vastly over-estmated what turned out to be mild to no warming. Models also predict a 'hot spot' in the atmosphere over the tropics and its only when the real data came in that we found this to be false also.

Re the whole conspiracy thing...this does neither of you any credit. Its just guilt by association and indicates that you know your case is weak and requires these childish assertions. For the record I'm not a truther, or a birther, I know the US landed on the moon, that the earth is round, and I don't think there is a vast conspiracy among climate scientists to deceive the world. I've said in the past they're wrong not evil. Do you know that the Unabomber was a strong supporter of Gore and AGW. Should I write a post explaining how you are guilty of evil based on your association with him?

Poirot wrote:"Hows about we invite you, mhaze, to list the things that would convince you that your denialism is misplaced? "

Well I wrote in a previous thread the following. As I recall you assiduously avoided the issue which is where I first realised that your belief is more religious than scientific.

My list is:
* we had rapid warming of approx 1c over the next decade or two
* we saw evidence that the postulated positive feedbacks are indeed positive and exist outside the models and that they overwhelm negative feedbacks
* we saw evidence that models are able to simulate cloud movement/formation and still predict a warming
* we saw evidence that models were able to replicate past climate changes

mhaze,

You go on as if your opinions are above all the peripheral denialist guff...

And then you raise the Unabomber......

Whaaat!

The Heartland Institute's use of that particular argument demonstrated an almost complete lack of intelligence and veracity - it was "stupid".

You post here, regaling us with all your 'skeptical" points - and then you raise the Unabomber, saying "....Should I write a post explaining how you are guilty of evil based on your association with him?"

I really wish you would : )

That's exactly the strategy that Heartland came up with when they tried that stunt (which misfired badly:)

http://heartland.org/press-releases/2012/05/04/heartland-institute-ends-experiment-unabomber-global-warming-billboard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/may/09/heartland-institute-donors-lost-unabomber-ad

But that's what organisations and their followers do when they don't have the"the science" (and in Heartland's case, nor the integrity).

They pull stunts and resort to strategies - in place of real science.

mhaze

Just clarifying that in quoting part of your point "...based on your association with him."

I realise that you are referring to Gore and not the Unabomber.

I don't know why you bother poirot/bugsy. If it was left up to 'fake sceptics' you wouldn't adjust for calibration errors, urban heat island effect, satellite drift, changing methodology/technology, station bias, etc - you wouldn't concern yourself with quality control/assurance - just use raw data. Sheesh, when Roy Spencer adjusts data it's ok, when done by 'alarmists' it's bad science - go figure. As far as oceans go, the Argo and satellite data is available and there has been enough time for statistical validation, as you know.

I remember all too well Josh Willis some years back said the oceans were cooling - the 'sceptics' went hoopla. Yet when Willis realised there was a calibration error with some of the floats' instrumentation, corrected for it (showing no cooling) the anti-science mob went rabid. Fake sceptics often turn to fallacious and strawman argument to justify their 'scepticism' - nope, don't buy it. However, if you want to keep banging your head - be my guest, entertaining to watch.

yeah, qanda....I often ask myself the same thing.

Being that it's all so perfectly pointless, I'm sure with a little self-encouragement I can find something more useful to do with my time.

(Hard to resist sometimes:)

Poirot

Just to lighten things up a bit here is my favourite climate change cartoon.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3xO_3Lntxeo/S5mljT805_I/AAAAAAAAA30/Sk-RY6_0Mi0/s320/Climate+Cartoon.jpg