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The Forum > General Discussion > Climate of fear.

Climate of fear.

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Bugsy/qanda/Poirot,

Well, this is real progress. Having been abused as a “liar, denialist, spin-doctored-assertions, childish and churlish, no neo-cortex, skeptic, amateur, spin, deny and lie, superfluous crap and shenanigans that seek to stymie global policy to address global warming”, you have come full circle.

Your initial reactions to the five statements below were utter rejection, anger and vilification. Having been unable to contradict these you now grudgingly accept the facts but trot out a load of excuses.

1.0 What are the international regulatory and governance processes now that Kyoto has lapsed?

2.0 Why have the international emissions trading markets collapsed?

3.0 Why has the renewable energy market collapsed internationally?

4.0 Why are all the key global “scientific” advisers to government’s trying so hard to keep their science secret from the public?

5.0 If the science is so good, why can’t it convince the international infrastructure that was created to support it in the first place?

What I find really fascinating is the sheer obsessive effort you have put into your science whilst being so myopic and disconnected from reality that you never realised, or were too lazy to find out, that all the things once created by your science and for your science have gone!

You all seem to be intelligent and yet you have no idea what is actually going on! You just keep churning out more and more links to the science that has not only failed you it has also failed the entire global response to CAGW.

Your anger, frustration and disbelief perhaps understandable but you are going to have to think things through on your own. Your case becomes absolutely unsustainable when you seek to blame “shenanigans that seek to stymie global policy to address global warming”.

You just cannot believe that it is your science that failed you, your paranoia that the rest of the world is trying to “stymie” you says it all.

Aren’t you all just a little bit curious as to why the only remnants of action on CAGW are people just like you? Quite sad really.

Regards,

Barry.
Posted by spindoc, Sunday, 17 February 2013 10:15:33 AM
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warmair,

On your point:

"The process that skeptics use is to concentrate on the areas that are not perfectly understood and then claim we don't understand anything."

Here's great interview with Michael Mann tiled "Besieged by Climate Deniers, A Scientist Decides to Fight Back".

http://e360.yale.edu/feature/climate_scientist_michael_mann_fights_back_against_skeptics/2516/

He echoes your sentiments:

"These attacks obscure the bigger picture. Climate science is like a vast puzzle. Individual papers like ours are a single piece of that puzzle. Scientists are still filling in pieces [of] the puzzle, but we can see a relatively complete picture of our climate that tells us the Earth is warming, human activity is the cause, and that we are locking in substantial rises in sea level, increasingly intense heatwaves and floods and threats to global fresh water and food resources as we continue to burn fossil fuels.

But politicians and ideologues try to make climate science out to be a house of cards. Remove one card and the whole thing falls down. The hockey stick papers, they decided, must be one of those cards and their response was to attack our research and challenge our integrity. I call it the "Serengeti strategy", in which predators look for what they perceive as the most vulnerable animals in the herd."
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 17 February 2013 10:33:00 AM
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spindoc,

You're the guy who titles yourself "spin" doc.

And that is such an apt descriptor...the totality of your denialist rhetoric is spin.

Your questions (which for some reason you seem to think are triumphant game changers...?) are on based political and economic contingencies.

Are you suggesting that a country, say like Canada, is thumbing its nose at Kyoto and emissions control because there is no scientific basis for AGW. On the contrary, Canada is executing the complete denialist routine because it wishes to continue its dirty energy emissions - of which tar sands is the major player.

Canada's attitude is the ultimate denialist template. It is a perfect representation of big business and government ignoring and demonising climate science in order to line its own pockets.

World-wide, its right-wing think-tanks who do the bidding of big business for those very ends. Deny the veracity and the integrity of climate science and scientists....and then have your acolytes ask why global agreements have trouble sustaining themselves.

Your "questions" are disingenuous - although it's what one expects from a apostle of a movement of such dubious integrity whose only recourse is to contort and misrepresent motives and research.
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 17 February 2013 10:56:34 AM
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We will have to adapt eventually...

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/opinion/global-warming-already-costing-us-billions-348428.html

When the denialists can no longer deny, and when big business and vested interests see their profits evaporating from lack of action - the tables will turn.
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 17 February 2013 12:40:26 PM
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@Warmair

<<In climate science a number of facts are well established….
4 Greenhouse gases interfere with the cooling process by absorbing long wave radiation>>

It’s always heartening to come across a source who has such a command of the facts.

Apropos of your established fact No. 4, what percentage of atmospheric CO2 --does THE SCIENCE tell us-- is derived from human activities?

If you don’t know the answer just say “pass” .

______________________________________________________________________

@ Poirot

Ok. So you’ve done your little witch-doctor dance and rant routine –but it did work, it hasn't driven away all the nasty challenging skeptics , we’re still sitting here, waiting, hanging-out for the answers to Spindoc’s five points.

Here they are again to save you looking for them:

<<1.0 What are the international regulatory and governance processes now that Kyoto has lapsed?

2.0 Why have the international emissions trading markets collapsed?

3.0 Why has the renewable energy market collapsed internationally?

4.0 Why are all the key global “scientific” advisers to government’s trying so hard to keep their science secret from the public?

5.0 If the science is so good, why can’t it convince the international infrastructure that was created to support it in the first place?>>

And please don’t try that Arjayian conspiracy hype about right-wing think tanks controlling everything. There are heaps more, and much better funded lefty NO-think tanks!

(Talk about irony – after ranting-on about credibility –she links to the Epoch times! to substantiate her point [ROFL]–still , I suppose, it’s a massive improvement n Naomi Klien!)
Posted by SPQR, Sunday, 17 February 2013 12:57:46 PM
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SPQR,

Nice try, yerself and spindoc...

Keep asking the same disingenuous questions ad nauseam - and then -

Continue to ask the same disingenuous questions - and then -

Ask again the same disingenuous questions - and then - and then - and....

You're the dupes who hang out the "conspiracy" flag at every amateur blog site.

You're the incredulous acolytes who extol the likes of Monckton as your defender and spokesman.

Sling as much critique as you like at Klein and others - 'sall you've got:)

I'd stack them up against Lord "Promote-Thyself" Monckton of Brenchley any day.

What a joke!
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 17 February 2013 1:29:58 PM
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