Gillard is following an unwanted tradition.
In picking a very good candidate over party rank and file choice she. like Sussex Street, is claiming ownership of the party.
A long term problem that must be addressed Many,. hand picked *stars*
Not in any way linked to politics ,or even members until picked.
It should be noted local members are put aside and have no say.
Along with long time 15 years, Senators.
In the second or third year of talking about Labor reforming this asks questions, why have membership if they have no rights/voice?

Strangely, this reminds me of a cocky and arrogant Alan Carpenter when he booted out a disabled member of his successful government and replaced him with another choice for an upcoming election. I can still see the "team" striding out in some grassland attempting to be a go ahead team having jettisoned anyone who didn't fit their vision.

They lost to Barnett convincingly in that election.

Typical political leader showing contempt for the people -she forgets - put her there in the first place. Just like the American presidents who now and in the past have used Executive Orders to bypass the congress.

Politicians = lies and deception.

She will get what she deserves at the next election.

Why would anyone believe that someone who can run fast, & hit a ball, would make a good senator? They may of course, but probably won't

In this instance I have heard both ladies speak, & was not enthused by either.

Obviously Gillard has seen the result in the last Territory election, & aspires to copy the move to aboriginal candidates. This is not only a mistake, but wrong. Once a party starts picking for ethnicity they are starting to rot. It is only a matter of time, before the public will notice the stink of putrefaction.

Belly,
I feel sorry for you and other rusted on labor supporters. You must dispair at the continued stuff ups the current government engages in.

Why labor persists in picking show ponies for leaders and celebrities for candidates is beyond me. This latest proposed candidate is not even a party member and yet she is to take the place of an experienced parliamentry member, all on the basis she is aboriginal. If Labor wants aboriginals in parliament, why did they bypass Mundine before? He is a long term and well thought of party member who has served well and has the respect of the community.

I wonder if the Labor party in the NT will rebel or just go along with another imposed candidate? I well remember the seat of Cunningham, a very solid Labor seat, where head office imposed a candidate over the locally preferred person. The rank and file objected and supported and elected the Green candidate for the first and only Green in the Lower house. One would think the hierarchy would learn from that.

Dear Belly,

Political commentators in the media have stated
that the current Labor Party Senator in the
Northern Territory has not been winning the support
of the Indigenous voters. If the Labor Party wants
to win back the support of the Indigenous voters that
it previously had in the NT the Labor Party has to make
realistic choices to do so. That is why the current
decision by the PM has been made.

Another thing to consider was the possibility
that the current Senator would have easily
lost her seat at the next election anyway - thus
causing an upset to the Government.

This is an attempt to win back the Indigenous vote in the
NT.

I go along with that Lexi. A sure seat set to be lost. The aborigional's need a voice in the NT. They will feel more comfortable talking to their own kind, and a person that has a foot in each camp.

Dear Belly,

In a representative democracy the citizens of an electorate decide who is going to represent them. Gillard in endorsing a candidate for them shows she has contempt for representative democracy.

Athletic ability does not correlate with wisdom, reasoned judgment or knowledge. Gillard did not start the trend to put 'celebrities' in office. Peter Garrett of 'Midnight Oil' is a example of a misplaced rock star. I favour rock stars in government only if they are well-known and competent geologists.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has told Fairfax Radio he supports increasing the number of Indigenous representatives in Federal Parliamen
"It's terrific that Labor might finally be getting its first Aboriginal representative in the Federal Parliament, so I'm all in favour of that," he said.

Lexi some truths are hidden in this matter.
Gillard has seen an opportunity, and taken it.
It is not possible for me to say any thing other than good about her candidate, a loverly woman.
But the party is again not served by*star* appointments.
A system is in place, part of the rules of the ALP.
Not the first time that system has been ignored.
Both party,s, my target however is mine, get star candidates, not even members of the party.
Sussex Street has dirt on its hands, it picked many, not totally sure but think the current ex HSU man, now an independent came that way.
I personalty watched Mark Latham ignore local branches and get Garret to join the party, taking a seat reserved for an active member.
It it was your task to pick a member of your party to stand in your seat what would it say if you had to look out side the party?
In the NT Aboriginal voters,feeling Labor ignored them, threw them out of office this is an opportunity to buy support, nothing else

579 why wouldn't Tony Abbott encourage the fool Gillard in her making yet another blunder. It is no different to you lot trying to talk the Libs into the blunder of making that fool Turnbull leader again.

579 you, more than any one should be appalled by this.
So what if it is a move to get the vote of Aboriginals?
What however if this great Australian acts as Mundine some times has?
If we need stars, if we can not produce a following in that community, then be brave, Pick Noel Pearson.
Name him Minister for Aboriginal affairs, soon to be shadow minister.
A commitment and understanding of party policy's should come first.
Remember a 15 years veteran is being told to go for Gillards pick.
The ALP looks this morning like it can not produce a candidate

Belly, Gillard does not have a team.

She occasionally does a few things that she thinks make her look prime ministerial. Other than that she is captive to the system that created her, she arrived on a whim and she will depart on a whim, unless the Australians get there first.

In the meantime she will do more harm to the traditional ALP, Unions, and caucus than any other politician in history. That’s why I personally wish her to stay until the job is complete

Dear all,
Obviously we differ on the word 'star'. Nova is no star and probably never was. Her main claim to fame came as an indigenous team sports member and not a very talented one at that. I'm sure a star means something else.

Waterhole

Belly,
yes, it says a lot when Labor has to go outside the party membership to find a candidate to endorse.

The only reason Gillard is still leader is because not one of the parliamentry party members is prepared to take the leadership role in the face of sure defeat. I am sure some members have aspirations of leadership, just not now.

Doesn't say much for the political nouse of the proposed senate candidate either if she is not now a party member and will join a party facing certain defeat, for the presteige of being an opposition senator if elected.

If there had been a vacancy, it would be differenr but to oust a sitting member for somebody untried is ridiculous. Garrett was a flop and so was that ABC sheila who won Bennalong and was turfed out after one term. Celebrities both and failures both.

I think the motive here is payback for the current member supporting Rudd in the last leadership challenge. Does not say much about the morality of the current PM or the party.

If NT Labor has any balls and principle they will reject Gillards proposal.

Gillard has the backing of the executive.
IT is somewhat hard to change a persons pigmentation, on short notice.
You be best woried about Tonies foot in mouth disorder, before you worry about who is going to win the election.
Pares is no star she is known moreso for her educational skills. Make a mighty fine indiginous rep;
Abbott won't be best pleased, is he still here, or is he still chasing that dark female across the simpson desert.

Yes Lexi, that's all this stunt is about, winning back this votes.

She is a doozy alright!

<One Labor MP described the move against Ms Crossin as revenge in return for the Senator's support of Mr Rudd.

"It is appalling, she seems to think that the party is her own little play thing, she is settling a score with someone who didn't support her in the leadership ballot, it stinks," the MP said>

http://www.news.com.au/national/labor-source-says-gillards-peris-move-is-revenge-over-rudd/story-fncynjr2-1226559576381

Queen Bee syndrome? The 'real' Julia? No wonder she did not curtsy to Queen Elizabeth 2. Awaiting the next instalment of the Queen Julia saga. :)

Dear Belly,

There's something that I don't quite understand.

George Wright, ALP National Secretary has said that
Labor's National Executive had unanimously admitted
Ms Nova Peris as a member of the NT Branch and they
have credited her to stand for pre-selection for
the position on Labor's Senate ticket in the NT.
A ballot will be voted on the 29th January 2013.
Applications close on the 28th January.

Doesn't this mean that its fair? The current senator
can contest the seat as well - and who wins, wins?
That doesn't sound like an unfair process to me.
Or can't people contest seats anymore? If that's the
case - then parties would end up with a bunch of hacks
and seat warmers - right? A bit of competition would
not be a bad thing would it? And just because someone
is loyal to the party does not necessarily make them
a competent senator does it?

There is such thing as becomming to familiar, and predictable, i say that is the case here. Peris is new and fresh it will encourage people that have given up hope of any reform to renew their push for indiginous issues. The about face at the last local election warrants change, that is what this is about.

Afraid not Lexi, a complex story.
First I had no idea the deposed Senator is a Rudd supporter,so that plays no roll in my thoughts.
It may have greased the rails for Gillards actions.
I will try to explain what I see in this.
To understand first the group who entered this fine lady[ignore the trite comments she won gold and is gold] is not Representative of the rank and file.
REFORM a word that controls my every thought.
And this act again entrenches the rights unwillingness to even start true reform.
Complex? sure is.
The center unity of the ALP, my faction, came in to existence to ensure the left never controlled the party,I agree with that.
Times saw it roll leftist candidates before election, some very left among that group.
So far so good, Labor needs to be both just left of center and near midstream in politics.
But the right became lost, it supported that faction in every case.
And lead to total control, even over mainstream membership, time and again dumping non-Labor candidates on local branches.
Behind Rudd,s dumping, Gillard could rely on? power brokers from ALP PTY LTD power brokers, center unity.
WE need reform, we must get better candidates, only the best , any sex, not minimums set that push the wrong folk vie sex or star ratings.
But this move, in its imposing and removing a Senator to fit, in my honest view DAMNS Gillard and those supporting her.
We are, with Abbott putting two hand picked in NSW, fast becoming a country that has no say in who even gets to stand for election.
Center Unity is the right.
It stabbed Rudd, and sponsored the NSW FILTH CURRENTLY UNDER INVESTIGATION.

This is clearly a payback by Gillard of a Rudd supporter. Gillard could have 'picked' Mick Mundine to fill a causal Senate vacancy in NSW, she would have got her 'token black' that she so desires, and we wouldn't have been burdened with Boo Boo Bob Carr.
Labor parachuted Peter Garrett into the "safe" seat of Kingsford Smith, once held by a famous Labor stalwart, Lionel Bowen, Lionel could command 70% of the primary vote. Garrett has been such an outstanding success Kingsford Smith looks likely to fall to the Liberals for the first time ever at the next election. Gillard called it a "captain's pick", the captain of what? Labor's version of the Titanic!
This kind of rubbish can never happen in The Green where all candidates have to be endorsed by the grass roots of the party, through the democratic process of pre-selection. Every member has an equal vote, none of this so called parachuting or captains picks, endorsement by the back room boys etc. If you want to join a political party and be treated as a mushroom then join the ALP.

err, no one has brought up this point, are you afraid ?
Don't worry Nicola's new "free speach" laws are not in yet.

Has the PM contravened the racial discrimination law ?
She, as CEO of the employer, the parliament, has dismissed a white
woman so that she can appoint a black woman as candidate.
It has been stated that the purpose was to replace white with black.
No other reason was given.

What sort of a rumpus would there be if it was the other way around ?
Especially if a white man was to replace a black woman.
Talk about b%^^&y hypocrites !

579, you win!

You just can't see wrong in anything labor or Julia does.

Dear Belly,

Thanks for the explanations.

It's all a bit too complex for me.

I'm just going to sit back and watch what happens
next.

Interesting times we live in.

Lexi,

I can fully understand why Juliar should parachute in a token. In the state election, Labor got a hiding, and unexpectedly much of it came from the aboriginal population. With a federal election coming up this year, it is far more important to federal Labor to hopefully hold onto a seat than to consider the local Labor members.

As far as the local membership is concerned, however good Juliar's "Captain's pick" is, the reality is that not only has Peris not been involved in politics previously, but until a few days ago she was not even a member of the Labor party. This is a clear message to the grassroots members of the ALP, not only in the NT, that the promised objectives of inclusivity and consultation with members is a joke.

The proper thing to do would be to bring in aboriginal members and develop and fast track them over a couple of years. However, this is classic Juliar, going for the short term expediency over the long term good of the party.

As a coalition supporter I think this is great.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Thanks for that.

As I stated to Belly - I don't know the inner workings
of the Party System and how much actual influence
any PM has. I suppose it depends on their popularity
within the Party and how much "power" they're able to
wield. Political commentators have stated that this
is a ploy to get the Indigenous vote in the NT.
I guess only time will tell whether this ploy is
successful.

Interesting times ahead.

Of course it's a ploy and why wouldn't it be, labor lost out on the indig vote before, so a change of guard was necessary, no time for negotiations this is an election year. The exec; has confirmed that.
The indig; were aparently not happy with their reps; so julia showed leadership and made a political gudgement. SM is happy with that and so am i.
The policy free zone has not yet burped, let the crusifiction begin.
This will get more interesting as the months roll over.

Hi there BELLY ol' mate...

A question if I may ? Probably, you'd be the most informed Contributor, on the entire Forum on matters of the Labour Party ?

Given the Federal Labour Party (seems) to be facing some serious perplexities in their bid to obtain another electoral victory at the upcoming federal election scheduled for the end of the year.

Who in your opinion would be best to lead the Labour Party to another victory ?

Please don't say Malcolm Turnbull, the Libs know he's a substantial encumbrance, in whatever posture he decides to take ?

OK yes Lexi complex indeed.
SM repeated what I told you, with a sharper knife.
O SUNG WO, complex too, once without doubt Bill Shorten, he not please now, Conroy, and my proud Union and faction, knifed our best chance Kevin Rudd.
To understand my views first under stand me.
I am welded on Labor.
But after NSW, the pure FILTH, some, only some, of whom are under investigation, I DEMAND PARTY REFORM.
Some on the left frighten me, and little kids,But two Jewels come from that faction, Faulkner ,should be our leader and Albanese, could be too.
Our left is much cleaner and honest than the right .
And passion comes from them.
The right is going to be held accountable for or impending loss.
That will remove Gillard, I will begin to breath again.
Make no mistake, I know Gillards finger prints are on far more than that knife.
She stalled true action on boat people and introduced things to Parliament that showed her lack of any true ability's.
However , let the future talk for me and the ALP, the following policy's will stand the test of time.
And be considered great by most of us.
Carbon capture /reduction/health/education/the impending disability scheme, I remain convinced ALP is worth voting and fighting for, to remove the power brokers death grip.
Continued back on subject.

G'day again BELLY...

Thanks ol' man, I appreciate both you candour and your shrewd views.

The only thing that must not happen, never ever happen. Is Ms J. Gillard to continue to lead this country ! If that were to happen...
well God help us all.

Thanks again BELLY.

Hi Belly, I am neither labour nor liberal supporter as you know, but I was wondering why you think Julia has been so bad for the party?
Surely a Prime Minister can't make all the decisions in isolation? Doesn't she have to consult the other members of her cabinet?

I am still not totally convinced Labour can't marginally win the next election, given the bumbling leader the Liberals have in Tony.
If that man does end up as the next PM, then I sure hope he doesn't get to make ANY important decisions himself!

I think what has taken place in the NT senate seat is self serving, do not buy that anything is wrong with the great lady hand picked to fill the spot made vacant by the Lady with the Knife.
It says my party can not be trusted to endorse its own choice.
Be careful anti Labor posters, Lib/Nats do it too, and often.
My party needs reform, in this area right now.
And end to power brokers putting fellow scum bags in seats is over due.
Currently Representatives of membership should select the candidate.
Just a thought, why not reform the selection process, AG, after Gillard, my party will face reality, reform or stay out of power for decades.
What if every candidate for every seat, had to front ALL state members telling us why they want the seat and how they think.
We have voted on line once, a reform thing, and should be able to side step this HIJACKING.
A rule exists, it truly does, that you MUST BE A PARTY MEMBER TO STAND.
Gee I hope Gillard is not.
Do not mistake my humor for other than if I do not laugh I may cry.
This move INSULTS every member in the NT.
It too reminds my fellow travelers once in the Parliament you can forget those who put you there knife, others at will.

Faulkner Belly, now that really frightens me. If he is the best you have, I'm afraid Labor is nothing but finished.

This is the Hindmarsh Island man you're talking about isn't it? The bloke who wanted a court of law to accept a sealed envelope as evidence in a court case. The only reason for that was he knew the evidence was shonky, & could never stand being exposed to scrutiny.

I was amazed he was still in parliament after the next election. I reckoned trying to pervert the course of justice should have made him impossible to nominate.

I also thought it a little strange when everyone knew what had been done, that he & those involved in the "evidence" were never charged.

Sorry mate if a known liar, & cheat is your top choice, is it any wonder your lot are shot?

Suseonline I am not a casual observer, while nothing is more ex than an ex I am the same bloke who loved being a Union official, and party stalwart.
But in both tasks I was/am high maintenance, unwilling to miss use the word solidarity to hide my true thoughts.
Harsh but true, the male population of this country, majority of, dislike her as much as me, will unlike me, never vote for her.
Rudd,s removal was a LIE, he needed pulling up, yes, but this woman, by her whole history, wanted the job, and stole it.
Her backers must confront the damage they have inflicted on my party.
Gillard held hands with other total FAILURES, Crean and the THING Latham.
Giving her a roll in dumping big Kim.
I admit to being pleased in the end Rudd took over.
Kevin Rudd gave us hope, promise, Gillard gave us certain defeat.

Alison Nampitjinpa Anderson - Aboriginal politician who left the Labor Party in 2009 and joined the NT Country Liberals in 2011. Tonight she stated on the 7.30 Report "Labor are false friends to the Indigenous people" and expressed her disgust at recruiting Nova. Julia is false - always was and always will be.

Warren Mundine (Indigenous)and ex President of the ALP who left the Labor Party in November 2012 because it is "no longer the party I joined". Many Labor elders are disillusioned with where Labor has gone.

Hi there BELLY...

Your recent thread to SUSEONLINE, was excellent my friend ! I reckon you succinctly encapsulated exactly what needs to be done and who should be leading your Party in the next election.

My knowledge of politics amounts to nothing really, but something I do know, as far as Ms Gillard is concerned, she has absolutely no credibility at all. Personally I'd need to establish the truth of anything she said. Such is the level of trust that I have in my Prime Minister. In fact I'm totally ashamed whenever she has a need to interact or greet with oversea's leaders.

Probably more embarrassed than ashamed. Imagine if you will, when the head of a Nation plans an official visit to Australia. He receives a formal briefing from his foreign affairs people. They inform him the Australian PM is a well known liar and can't be trusted

That leader must think very very little of us, as a people. for putting up with this self-perjured Prime Minister of ours ? Roll on the election eh BELLY !

Speaking as a man what's causing me to turn up my nose at all the political parties is the across the board, unisex bitchiness thrown in our faces every day. Males like Rudd, Abbott, Turnbull, Bandt and Katter are unmanly, fake "blokes", martinets and wimps while their "empowered" female colleagues are the very opposite of the strong women real men respect and love. There are no strong men and women in politics, no leaders, no fighters or loyalists, parliament's ranks are filled with craven weaklings, obnoxious prigs and teacher's pets,
it's no wonder that authentic bottom feeders like James Saleam and Australia First are gaining a following.

Yes Belly, you are probably right that many men do dislike Gillard as PM,
but on the other hand , the vast majority of women can't stand the thought of Abbott as PM either!

Maybe politics is really decided more on gender issues than we are willing to admit?

Bazz, you raise an interesting point there, as I also believe there is little doubt that a swap from black to white would have caused an outcry.

I guess it's simply another case of discrimination, when it suits.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/obeids-trust-is-the-best-ad-for-tax-reform-20130124-2d8p9.html
Thanks all, the link at first may look unrelated to the thread, it is at the very heart of the issue.
First, for the most part we know little about politics.
We, all of us, tend to grab at head lines and run with them Sorry but it is true off many not just here but in the nation.
Why is the link, about pure filth relevant?
It too, is about the family who CONTROLLED THE NSW Parliament POST CARR!
In need of a figure who could steady a boat in danger of sinking Labor, my much loved party, KNIFED Rudd.
Gillard, from our left, now right, who would stand naked in the street to rule, is in relation to a liked public figure, not even in the race.
For get the anti candidate junk, she is a good candidate, IF SHE HAD HISTORY of party membership, and IF Madam knifev was not dumping an enemy.
Look see my post about ex,my words here have seen me become that ex,to all but my past members.
My party has its head in the sand, those of us brave enough to see the election loss, unless we face Abbott, are turned on.
Yet had Gillard the intelligence, to find a way to get both this candidate and Noel Pierson in to the house?
The toucan of this move would be seen as other than touanism if she actually put the two in power.
Mundene, sorry from inside the tent, is not what he seems and never will be.
So soon be foot,y time , the only game, NRL Gillard as a coach would put the half back andb five eight in the front row and the front rowers on the wing.
It Time ALP dump her do it now.

Belly said "My party needs reform, in this area right now.
And end to power brokers putting fellow scum bags in seats is over due.
Currently Representatives of membership should select the candidate.
Just a thought, why not reform the selection process,"
We know what a disaster the 2011 NSW State election was for the ALP, a huge swing decimated the party. You would have thought the alarm bells would have rung and party reform would have been top of the bill, with the candidate selection process being high on the agenda, no more back room deals, no rewards for past favors,no none of that, you would think party democracy would be the new name of the game. When the first opportunity arises for the ALP to enter a new light, I refer to the resignation of the ex-premier 'Hairdo' Keneally, who promised the voters of Heffron to serve a 4 year term come hell or high water, alas after 17 months the call of basketball was to strong, and unfortunately exit one "Hairdo'. Does this trigger new found ALP democracy, one would think so. No, what happens a Sussex Street deal is done and presto, some half a million bucks later, the cost to the NSW taxpayer for a by-election, the 60 year old Mayor of Botany Cr Hoenig is installed in the safe seat of Heffron, no democratic pre-selection, Hoenig got the job. What happens next, who's the new Mayor of Botany, Keneally, no not the Kristina but hubby Ben. Why does the man with no profile, hubby Ben want to be the Mayor of a tiny Sydney Municipality, it sits in the middle of the presently Labor seat of Kingsford Smith, I'm sure you can work out the rest for yourself, 2016 and all that.
Win, loose or draw nothing will change with those that exercise the power and control within the ALP.
Rank and file members are very important to the Labor Party, who else would be dumb enough to hand out their 'how to votes' on election day.

Belly, I would consider you to be the very model of what the membership
of the Labour Party should be.
For you to be feeling like you do about the party, what are the rest
of the membership doing about the problems you describe ?

Are they being steamrolled ?

All parties will have internal issues, it would be to much to ask to say there are no problems, it is a matter of not letting internal issues disrupt the running of govt;
It's for the powers at hand to resolve, in their own way.
When are we going to see some policy making from Abbotts camp, or is that to much to ask.
I can not believe you can put so much weight on a political party that will not tell you what they stand for.
Is Abbott still leader, things have gone quiet, they may be thinking.

The Westpac Australia Day Report - launched on Friday - shows more than two thirds of Australians (67 per cent) are positive about the national economy, while two thirds of those (66 per cent) expect this to continue.
Respondents believed the resources industry, plus the growing strength of Asian markets, were behind the strong economy.
People were also upbeat about their own finances - with 67 per cent looking forward to a positive personal situation this financial year.
Westpac retail and business banking general manager Gai McGrath said she was not surprised by the positive attitude.
"This optimism is not surprising considering our resilient economy," she said.
"Australians are known for their positive attitude and feel they can handle anything thrown their way, however they also understand there is more they could be doing to make their money work harder for them."

Bazz I have fellow travelers, but too many 579,s who think hiding the truth is not in fact betraying my party.
Hasbeen I am pleased you have no say, for that matter understanding in our team, Faulkner is a statesman and without Rudd the only one we currently have.
In a way folks, we all let every politician who does us wrong get away with it.
This threads subject is becoming standard for both sides of the house, Abbott has done it twice, in the most important seats in NSW.
We take our eyes of our sides faults and magnifies the others.
In doing that we say ok to some dreadful behavior.
Both sides, by leaders actions, con us all , and more importantly, insult us all, convinced we can be bought and sold come election time by politicians changing their skin like a bright and shiny snake, they can do it then but not even try to keep up the pretense after winning.
NT voters have been treated as dumb by this act.
No party should aim to ignore its members and branches while claiming it is bound for true reform.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/pms-super-nova-blows-up-in-her-face/story-e6frfku9-1226561770691
In past time I would name this link as Liberal bias, it may well be why we see it in print.
But unfortunately it is true.
After Gillard is defeated, or more hopefully dumped, many from my side will rush to say much as I have.
Know them when they do, jellyfish each and every one, no back bone.
Now not after our train wreck, is the time to see Gillard for what she is.
Pure electoral poison.
This is not her first policy blunder, her office floor must be knee deep in things like cash for clunkers.
The once great, will be again, ALP is being run by a petulant group of self seekers unfit to sit at the feet of past ALP Governments.
Gillard looks good to them, until reality hits them like a brick.

Belly You must have infirmation that has not been printed. I know nothing of the fears you have. Why would i hide the truth, if i knew what it was.
I say it as i see it.
I have no problem with Gillard, being a female does not worry me.
Telling the odd porky does not put me off.
Show me a cleanskin politition, and i will show you one with something to hide.
Look at our economic figures, unemployment, we are doing very well. And all this in the face of a hung parliament.
No way am i going to advocate, a no policy, illiterate, bumbling, fool to head AU in politics.
I do it as i see it, and it is not about to change. I believe in the values of Labor. The alternative is a conservative, and i believe dangerous.

Hi there BAZZ...

I concur with your observations absolutely, apropos the image of 'BELLY' being the authentic Labour Party 'ideal' ! Since I've subscribed to this Forum, he's never for a moment vacillated in his vision of true Labour tenets and principles.

Moreover, he's (BELLY) very scathing of those 'faceless' factional powerbrokers who are relentlessly, destroying a once great political party. Seemingly motivated by this almost, 'manic desire' to feed their own 'prodigious hubris' that many of their (secret) number possess. And of course to ensure they maintain their grip on 'power', at any cost !

Watching our PM perform in Parliament oh so adroitly, expertly deflecting and answering questions, with a mix of pure venom even bile ! I do wonder, if she's not perhaps mentally ill in some way ? Whether, deep within herself, she has this odd, inalienably belief, that it's only her, and her alone, that can lead Australia along the inexorable, righteous path of the 'Marxist Theory of Socialism' and thus, our own salvation, who could tell !

Though, I'm quite sure there'd be sufficient work in 'the Mental Health of the Prime Minister' - for the entire, Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists to work with, at their next Annual Conference !

I must admit, I'd not care to be on the end of one of her verbal attacks, not for a moment. Yep, I reckon BELLY'S got the PM's measure, well and truly. She's certainly NOT the salvation of the Labour Party, rather it's annihilation, I should think.

Julia Gillard does come across as a controlling, vengeful narcissist. But there are some like that in all high positions and in political parties - check the Greens :(

It is not Julia Gillard who sets the policy and agenda though. But does even Caucus have control over that? A few big swinging sticks seem to decide what goes when push comes to shove. Not democratic or representative at all.

As well, there are others on her front bench who lurk in the shadows when there is trouble but step forward for kudos.

Gillard is more the "yes" man who survives to lead because she has no ideas, no principles she is staunchly wedded to and she is not a commitment politician. Sure she can work the lawyer's defence and attack, but she does has the gift of the gab. She is not an orator and is uncomfortable in that role. If she is prepared and has mulled it over for ages she can deliver by rote. Her attack on 'sexist' Abbott was an example.

579 said;
When are we going to see some policy making from Abbotts camp, or is
that to much to ask.

Well I can only presume that you are quite young, say mid 20s, or you
have memory problems.
Have you no memory of the Liberal Party taunting the Labour party as
being the no policy party before the elections during their 15 years ?

The oppositions NEVER reveal their hand until the campaign is well under way.
In any case where have you been ? I would have thought you would have
downloaded Tony Abbott's blue book within 5 minutes of its announcement.

Labour's biggest problem as the public see it, is their monumental
mismanagement of a long list of projects, which no doubt the Libs
will remind everyone, and the malicious attacks on Tony Abbott.
They have in fact to some extent generated a sympathy vote, amazing !
Interestingly, most of the sympathy vote seems to be amongst women !

Then I met at a meeting some RFS people and they were annoyed at what
one politician said putting Abbott down because he went off with his
brigade to the bushfires.
I did not hear it myself so I don't know what was said.

Well OSW, I don't think the PM has a mental problem, but she does seem
to be very sure of herself. That is a good point in a politician, but
I suspect she may never take advice.
I draw this to your attention, just a couple of days before Wayne Swan
announced the end of surplus, Gillard was saying that a surplus was
certain. Surely she must have been aware of Swan & Treasuries knowledge
of the deficit, at that time.
Or was she just trying to push it away by public statements so that Swan couldn't announce it ?
I was surprised that no commentators picked up on that.

The biggest problem we have is our economy in a very few years, some
say this year, but neither party has come to grips with the future.
Julia Bishop's recent post about energy costs is a hopeful sign but
the Labour party has committed itself to a policy of no problem.

Bazz Polititions are not into conspiracy's. So the libs were taunting the labor about policies, can't it happen the other way round. Abbotts book is an example of what this bloke is; he is mute amongst other things.
The public have moved on and not into Abbotts negative statements, That is why he is in the predicament now.
If we acted on conspiracy's ?
Gillards mental status is hardly a political statement .
I have the feeling you lot are against women, no other reason for it.
I would not give you two bob for Rubb , to me he was a pansy.
You will go a long way to find a leader with so much punch, as julia.
She has shown real leadership in adverse conditions, To good for Abbott, she will cut Abbott to shreads in a policy debate. Abbott is an economic illiterate, as is well known.

579 said;
Polititions are not into conspiracy's. So the libs were taunting the
labor about policies, can't it happen the other way round.

What are you talking about, what conspiracy ?
Hey, it was me that said both sides go on about no policies.
I am afraid it is very difficult to have a sensible discussion with you.
Then you jumped away to have a go at Rudd, then about Abbott being an
economic illiterate despite having a economics degree (not that I put
much weight on economists) and being a Rhodes Scholar.

You bounce around in just a few sentences.

I should have learnt my lesson from the mobile phone subject.

You can't change or relive the past
but you can plan for and shape the future.
The role of our PM comes down to designing
and delivering the policies that give us and
our children a better future. The voters will
decide which Party is capable of doing just
that, at the next election.

It's much easier to do well in good economic
times - then its a question not so much of
good management but luck. However it's much
harder to deal with a minority government,
a global financial crisis,
as well as being attacked from all sides.

As I stated earlier - interesting times ahead.
However, the voters usually do get it right in
the end.

579 <"I have the feeling you lot are against women, no other reason for it."

Ummm, ya think? :)

Lexi, you are so right.
Gillard has had a particularly hard time in Government with the current problems.
I am not a huge fan of hers, but I still believe they had to get rid of Rudd, and she was the best candidate to take over at the time.

I too believe that the Australian people are not stupid, and that they will choose the best party to govern us at the next election.
I just fervently hope it isn't Abbott!

Yes. The best pick at the time, and proven her worth. I think i may have hit something with the female bit.
The people will make a choice and no one in their right mind would pick a party with no directon and no policy. Except Bazz.
Bazz says it is in the book.
I bet Abbott never had anything to do with it, probably can't write.
Is that Rhodes or roades schollar, is that where attendance is optional.
Parliament resumes in early feb; no doubt we will have some half baked ideas coming from the opposition. This year will be interesting

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/evidence-questions-obeids-pecuniary-interest-statements-20130125-2dc3k.html
I thank those who support me, and grin in joy at those who oppose me.
This link Ostrich, sorry leg pulling 579, proves how low, how disconnected, the NSW ALP fell.
We, NSW ALP are still a shattered rump,yet well lead battered and bruised we are just a few steps , on the long path to our long past greatness, we will complete the trip, because true beleivers will except nothing less.
Know , please, the Sussex Street general, who rode his reward, a senate seat, then Marshalled the troops, Gillards Gullible self seekers, to knife Rudd.
Hate drove that knife,HOW DARE ANYONE, want to return Labor to its rank and file.
The power brokers, MISSUESING THE UNIONISTS who made them powerful owned the monopoly Bord!
How dare any one try taking their play thing away.
579 our ALP is not served but giving total reign to such as them.
My childhood, true, saw spuds and pumpkin for tea and only the skins for breakfast, these filth eat my party!
I never, will stop demanding reform for my party, good policy's but not all, while lead by Gillard is rank and vile.
Can you 579 think it is her alone that fires my contempt, am I in your view that shallow?
SHE damages my party with her every breath, as do the props who only have one task to lead after she is gone and continue to betray us, me and you.

Is the only way to reform, by self destruction. In my opinion Rudd had to go. Politics is no place for pretty boys.
Gillard has done a fantastic job in the face of adversity, and come out on top.
Her oponent's only roll was to man the lodge by the end of 2010. So much so they forgot to make policy, there was not going to be any need for policy.
Sorry but i must stick with Gillard if she is going to be there for the election, as to hand it to Abbott is far to scary, to contemplate. If it were Turnbull, i would consider.

Gee Belly, you really are upset with Gillard!

But as I have said before, she didn't elect herself to the leadership, and she had to have had a lot of help and support from within the party to take the leadership from Rudd.
So why aren't you upset with all her cohorts as well?

It has certainly been hard for many die-hard Labour fans to accept a strong female leader maybe?

I for one am hoping she drags Labour into another term in office...anything rather than Abbott being involved in any high office at all.

A good year for a referendum, we could have a Yes No vote on AU becoming a republic.
As Turnbull says any year is a good year for a referendum on republicanism.
Changes to the schooling system and disability insurance scheam will be part of the 2013 budget.
Jibes about the mental health of the PM is dirty and something abbott would say.
The runt has gone quiet lately, probably throwing some policies together. The costings will be dousies, done by the big boy.

Suseonline mate, while I forgive you, you insult me and brand me shallow if you think you have stated my reason.
Have you sat in a room with her,? 3 meters away long before she knifed Rudd and heard this scheming lady tell you she knew better than those she addressed?
She was addressing a INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS FORUM both my union , its birth place, and local business leaders IR lawyers and more.
In my first shocked post after the knifing, *I said I would never trust her*
I too tried to support her butchering of my party, remember *she was never elected leader*
I said, gee forgive me, she would govern well.
I AM A student of politics, not a casual observer
Hours daily learning and reading about it.
Over my shoulder is a dinner photo me with big Kim and Carr between them my work area member who rose to great heights.
Why look for the lowest common gutless, reason I post this way, without honor if true?
Suse I respect you very much, but KNOW my every act is because I LOVE THE ALP.
Far too many ride on my party's back, leeches , never did an honest days work in their lives and never will.
Gillard has not a single bit of love for my party, is your defense of her, rebuttal of me because she is a woman?
The next woman in Australia who wants to lead us, has Gillard to over come, frauds leave bad taste in Australians mouths.
Her only single asset, what a dreadful but true thing to say, is TONY ABBOTT.
579,Stay blind but stay loyal, try to be strong and honest our job is to rebuild with both or not at all.
Look please, at the link, the dreadful control of my party in NSW, Gillard used the same filth to install herself.
She is not lady and no good.

Sorry Belly, but I wasn't really meaning you specifically.
I know you are a fan of women as a general rule :)

I am not a Gillard supporter, but was even less a supporter of Rudd. He was a known dictator amongst his own party members Belly, and there were many in his party who 'knifed' him, not just Gillard.

Just because you are a diehard labour supporter, doesn't mean everyone else's views on Gillard, Rudd, or anyone else in that party are wrong.

So, I politely beg to differ with you on this one.
At least we seem to agree that Abbott would be an embarrassing , ineffective PM...

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abotts-man-under-fire-over-extreme-right-lobbying-20130126-2ddls.html
This link, while appearing to be off topic, is not.
Liberalism, is in no way related to Republican Tea Party politics, show me how many Liberal voters support this man, you will find some but not a majority.
Now Rudd,s removal, remember at that time NSW voters had blood in their eyes for NSW Labor.
Yet it was that state that carried the election for him.
Right wing Sussex Street convener, Mark some thing or other, won the senate seat he later gave up.
And became a high paid employee of the Packer Casino.
He left remember, to settle the boat, after Rudd failed to get back in the seat.
Susionline you are well respected but in this matter, please remember, never trust what politicians say, ANY OF THEM.
Rudd had a few very rude claims made against him and without doubt was guilty.
His biggest crime? sharing the view Labor must reform.
And the view too many , some true greats, many not, union officers got seats based on other than true worth.
So our Mark, as is his normal, I have seen it in action, undermined Rudd.
So too did * A FEW* power brokers uniting to? save long standing benefits power brokers and the self interested groups get.
Continued

From now until after the election you will see far different politicians than normal.
Both sides will try to catch any wave to surf on public opinion.
And revert to who they truly are post election.
Rudd,s knife team did that,not telling us why they removed him, remember he picked his own front bench not the factions.
They neglected to inform us how bad Rudd was, until they needed a reason, and rejected Rudd,s offer to turn the polls around or leave.
In 2007 *only Kevin Rudd bought Labor to Government*
Gillard lied, no not carbon capture, at least twice this tough skinned politician with no morals has lied to us all.
Read the above link, know it is extreme and a small minority.
But too, this country is about to see, yes it will, Abbott if still leading, reward the fool with a Ministry.
My feelings are truly held, fears that we are being asked to rebuild after not before a smashing defeat.

Abbott has been reinvented, but his rheteric is not in sinc with his party. He is changing from Dr No to Mr Yes. Can Leopards change spots.
Interesting words but go against some of the doom predictions from Bazz and a few others.
Will they keep Tea Party tactics or abandon that style. Hasn't really worked for them has it. And the no policy, is a no brainer.
Gillard is on a roll, and pushing on.
The community just want streight politics, with out the mud and slander.
Will Abbott be able to keep it together, and show real reform or is it crap as usual. Pledges in blood are going to bite Abbott, with billions of $ involved.

Yes I know and understand.
I have hogged this thread.
And others commenting on my partys wrongs, and those of its fellow travelers.
Not to extend the length of the thread.
But in desperation, that true reform come to Australian politics.
My party specifically.
I just can not settle, under a blindness that lets those in control of my party off the hook.
We mostly do not truly understand politics, truly we do not.
579 tells in his post above how good Gillard is going, while I fail to see that, is it not clear the better she goes the closer Turnbull gets to his second chance?
Tammany Hall may not mean a lot to some.
But it was a New York Irish control system totally self serving corrupt indeed dirty.
Both side have been like that in NSW, we are reading about *one family* by the control its head had over the very government in NSW bought down the whole party, Obied,held the majority in his hand, of a whole party!
No words can hide, or describe, the pain of *TRUE BELIEVERS* who stand today at the foot of the hill we must climb to get our honor back.
So sorry, yes I hog the thread/threads about these things.
I often, ask for Liberals/Conservatives, Even the mad Hatters Greens to tell us of the wrongs in their teams.
Yet no one takes it up.
Before condemning me, know a legend is in the making today.
It will take generations to forget NSW PTY LDT
How long before coming generations forgive both party,s for the horrible results of this hung Parliament.
579, the very guts of this matter are these truths,if you are blind to our party,s reality's yet seethe others sides.
*You except dirty politics, as so many who unknowingly post half truths about us but see no evil on their side.
The 3 wise Monkeys are from from wise, only a criminal would consider them wise. gutless more likely

Abbott has got another piece of paper floating around, don't they have a spokesperson. Without costings it does not mean a thing.

Gillard has pledged help for flood victims, and infastructure, abbott says it's a bad idea. So what does that mean, let them sink or swim.
Sounds like a foot in mouth again.

579, Something you have failed to point out is an Abbott led government will be nothing more than a front for the Catholic Church. When it comes to social justice issues. Abbott will be the mouth piece for the views of one, Archy Pell.
Belly, as for reform of the Labor Party it ain't going to happen! Not today, not tomorrow. not next week. not next month, not even next year. Never ever, nope, not before an election, not after an election, never ever. The party will be dead and berried before there is the slightest inkling of any nonsense of reform. If you don't believe me, just ask the Labor right, they run the show. You can keep on dreaming, or to be positive give the ALP the flick, and join The Greens a truly grass roots democratic party. Who knows you could end up Senator Belly, sitting next to your favorite from NSW my friend Lee Rhiannon. Nah, I think Cate Faehrmann got that job.

Paul really!

When on your soap box, Poetic (or political) license is no excuse for bald faced lies. Abbott is no more a mouthpiece for Pell than Gillard is for Marx. (Lee Rhianon perhaps)

Outrageous claims may gain you kudos amongst those disconnected from reality (such as the greens), but the rest of us think this is idiocy.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I have no doubt whatsoever that Cardinal Pell
will have a great deal of influence (consciously
or unconsciously) on Mr Abbott should he become PM.
That is - if Mr
Abbott is a devout Roman Catholic. Which I believe
he is. However, whether Mr Abbott will be a "mouthpiece"
for Cardinal Pell remains to be seen. However, it is
something that many people are definitely concerned about.

Lexi,

You have no doubt whatsoever? You mean you devoutly believe the labor propoganda?

Abbott proposed a royal commission into child abuse long before labor. He has openly supported free access to pregnancy termination. His Catholic conviction has lead him to state that he would prefer that abortions were unnecessary.

The issue as to whether he is Pell's mouthpiece has been convincingly settled, as well as the level of influence that Pell has.

There is cause for alarm there. Womens issues will go by the wayside, so to will same sex partnerships.
Abbott is not keen on helping out the flood or fire victims.

I am not surprized at the opinions of Paul or 579 as they have to muck rake because the are not positive things to say about the parties they support. But am surprized at Lexi, I thought she would be far less bigotted than that.

Rudd was, or is, a devout christen who attends church regularly, so why would Abbott be subject to church presure and Rudd not?

579, you are on the bottom with muck now, if Abbott said anything, or implied such, it would be screaming headlines. Best you supply evidence for the allegations.

Its a fair bet Abbott will handle the truth far better than gillard.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Please try to be civil.

Equating an opinion that I express to "Labor
Propaganda," is not arguing on a mature level.
It would be remiss of me for example, to suggest that your
opinion in this instance is "Liberal Propaganda."

I am merely pointing out that we all are influenced
by various friendships, beliefs, and our ideologies. Mr
Abbott is no different. However, seeing as he wants to
be our next PM - many people are naturally concerned
about some of his 'influences'. Of course the media
tends to influence people as well - and there is no
denying the fact that Mr Abbott does come across in
a certain way.

However, I will make this concession - only time will
tell what he's really like - we have to wait and see if
the voters decide to give him the opportunity to show us.

Banjo, to the contrary I have many positive things to say about The Greens, a truly democratic and progressive party with great policies and terrific membership. What else do you want me to say.
On the other hand, why did the Mad Monk try recently to hide a meeting he had with Archy Pell. You know the meeting he tried to conveniently forget about.
If Abbott comes to power do you think that former soldier of the Third Reich Joe Ratzinger in Rome will be calling the shots, just a thought.

Almost anyone calling the shots would be better than a couple of harpies from Tasmania.

Dear Banjo,

I hope that I'm not "bigoted".

You've had quite an influence on me on certain
issues. So, my views aren't set in concrete.
And especially in politics, I tend to change my
mind depending on what makes sense to me.

I guess though that we may interpret things in
different ways. In other words we tend to see
things from a viewpoint of subjectivity (an
interpretation based on personal values and
experiences). Each of us is inclined
to perceive facts selectively and to interpret
them accordingly. All of us will be guilty of
some measure of bias - the tendency, often
unconscious, to interpret facts according to
our own values.

Lexi,

With all due respect there is a world of difference between:

"I am merely pointing out that we all are influenced by various friendships, beliefs, and our ideologies." (Which is a generalisation I agree with.)

and

"I have no doubt whatsoever that Cardinal Pell will have a great deal of influence (consciously or unconsciously) on Mr Abbott should he become PM." Meaning that one man holds sway over your future PM, Especially given the double meaning of "influence" in politics.

Paul,

At least TA does not need to consult the aliens before making a decision, which I understand is standard Green's practise.

&#9658; 1:47&#9658; 1:47
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvYzLIywCiA

579, well dredged from the bottom muck!

That death stare is withering, like a pre-fight boxer's.

The general populace will forget this and many other examples of Abbott's bald-faced lying and intimidation by September 14, but thanks for a great laugh.

Dear Shadow Minister,

We won't agree on this topic.
I've stated my personal opinion and
in this case I prefer to stick with it.
As I see it - Cardinal Pell is a personal friend of
Mr Abbott's as well as his spiritual leader -
and to me that's quite significant. It may also explain
Mr Abbott on being - anti stem-cell research,
same sex marriage, abortion, and so on.
It's these sort of things that make
many people query Mr Abbott's suitability for the job of PM.
You see things differently - which is fair enoough
but that doesn't change the
fact that many voters don't see things the way that you do.

Lexi, have you even been in close proximity to the NT? Try walking the streets of Alice Springs at night. You'll be lucky to make it from one end to the other without being assaulted by a non white person. Visit Coles at night, and you have to step over the indigenous drunks on the ground to get in. And don't try to collect your mail at the PO after the sun goes down, as you'll be putting your safety at risk. The security people in town are fully uniformed and heavily armed with necessary protective devices, and their overt presence makes one feel like Alice Springs is a Gulag.

The indigenous people in the NT need educated, informed, civilised, non indigenous people to help them break away from their maladjusted, violent, drunken lives. Many of them can barely speak English. They can't help themselves.

Go there, venture out after sunset, open your eyes, and see what's actually happening. The romantic, southern white trendy view of indigenous people there is simply not accurate. The NT indigenous people are in a state of utter collapse.

Dell, welcome, while it is worse in Darwin, we do not need to go that far.
Name any fair sized country town in NSW say Dubbo, even the fishing paradise Queenslanders love to visit, Evans Head on a weekend night.
We whites have to share the blame.
Unpleasant? maybe, but we have failed in our attempts to change it for 200 years.
I started the thread.
To express my contempt for sections of the ALP/UNION movements, for backing Gillard.
For the rest of this year, I must hope, no beg, that I am wrong.
And too, see with increasing understanding, and yes fear,Conservatives offer only pain, for me and my country.
Lexi, a thought, Richo, a bloke saying much as I have, was once one of our very best,and controlled in a level headed way, a faction.

Dear Dell,

I appeciate and understand your concern about the
plight of the Indigenous pople in the NT although
I don't quite understand why you brought this issue
up on this thread which doesn't deal with this topic
and why you're directing your post at me.

However, indigenous-white relations is a complex issue
and it is a difficult matter to deal with. It will
perplex us for many years to come. We can only hope
that working together - our governments will not
evade their responsibility in this area and that
with time things will improve.

Dear Belly,

I used to admire Richo

Lexi in this matter we will continue to disagree.
For me my party is my life, it will always be so.
After our loss, it sadly will be so, we will find our selves with the best policy,s and record, standing in the wreckage of our party.
Haunted by the reality of the effects of knifing Rudd.
The truth in Sussex Streets roll there and in putting Thomson it t0o his seat.
HSU the yet to be found other such events, Lexi do you know right now, without pay I would return to union work.
That I think it is life,s greatest honor to serve union members?
Yet so many in that roll, are there for the cash and the opportunity to climb the ladder.
TOO many end up in parliament,and with no memory or concern for the reason they first started that climb.
Richo is still a lover of the ALP he like me bleeds for the true ALP.
I WILL VOTE AND WORK MY GUTS OUT FOR THEM, WE WILL STILL FIND OUR SELVES STANDING IN THE RUINS
That day, grief stricken I will see and hear every remaining Labor voice saying the words I say now.
It took years of hard work to put us in Parliament it will do so again.
We inflict Liberals on Australia, by not isolating the dreadful actions of some in our nest.
No house is truly clean until the carpet is lifted and the dirt truly removed.
Without change power brokers will always own my party.

Dear Belly,

I don't for one moment doubt your sincerity and
your integrity - and I wish you every possible
success in your life's goals. I've read
Lindsay Tanner's book and the suggestions he,
Bob Carr, Brachs, Faulkner, and others have made
in ways to improve your Party. Hopefully, positive
changes will come sooner rather than later.

Take care.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/alp-vice-president-savages-nsw-right/story-e6frfku9-1226567130150
Lexi a truth is hidden here.
I value every one of our greats who that book speaks of.
But, without people like me, willing to be the disliked one, but speaking the truth, my party may die.
Hard to imagine?
Be leave me no party infested with such as NSW Terigal, faction, /Obied gang, can survive if no clear intention is shown to put them on public display, rather than pretend you never knew them.
This link, comes from a bloke with guts, I have campaigned with him, not for politicians.
His words are true.
Rudd is saddling up, for a last run at being returned, if he fails, we fail, and he, followed by many more, will not contest Gillards election.
IF any chance exists for a Labor victory, even a lessor loss, Gillard and Swan, a life member of my union, must be removed.
And a commitment ,even a real start, to true reform must be under way before spring.
POWER BROKERS INSULT THE RANK AND FILE.
Sad but true, real reforms harsh and honest team building, will come as a result of defeat at the hands of our own power brokers and Gillards team of fools.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/at-last-obeid-forced-to-reveal-all/story-e6freuy9-1226567335979
Yet another link.
Yet another unfortunate truth.
My words are far from alone and far from the only ones from within my party.
Pleading for an open,headline making, rejection of the filth that killed NSW Labor.
It is strange, and challenges our right to honest government.
But if this thread was about corruption on this scale,and it could have been/maybe one day, my detractors would be posting hourly.
In the end, this country must demand always, that
no
politician ever again uses us this way.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/hurtling-towards-nowhere-20130202-2dra0.html
This link, and the one above, will help folk in states other than NSW understand just how low we went.
I see it everyday, but am not sure if other states record the events in full.
Note if you will the fact a currently under investigation/rat politician, appointed a failed Premier of NSW!
In the end I fear the extremes of current Liberal leader and some of his crew.
I too want an ALP federal government.
When this one falls, my age says it is unlikely I will see another.
But my party is the party that grew from the tree of knowledge,and toughened in the 1950,s DLP days.
It sent men who had to by a suit for the first time in their lives to parlement.
Men and women who knew hard times, who valued solidarity as other than the rug we sweep the dirt under.
I know ,with no doubt, Labor will reform, but fear post election, those who prove, who forced their views down our throats,may be our leaders.
Rewarded for? sweeping Madam Gillards /NSW filths rubbish under our carpet.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/postobeid-labor-sets-mp-income-rule-20130202-2dra4.html
On the brighter side a man of truth and great merit, maybe NSW,s Kevin Rudd.
But not for years yet.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/familys-shopping-centre-windfall-20130203-2dskx.html
No I am not trying to extend the thread.
The things in the 4 links posted need airing.
Far too many base opinions on not much at all.
My gratitude at the good news about reform in NSW is not letting me forget why we need it.
Here it could be found, other Ministers in the Last NSW Labor filth/government, have dirty hands.
Again, and if need be again, I want to bring to the attention of my fellow travelers, note todays polls.
You can not build a fine home on a rubbish dump
And it is us, the rank and file, who must see this is viewed ,so we can be assured it never takes place again.

Belly,

Robertson's attempt at window dressing the NSW Labor is a bit of a joke. Where was he for the last 5 years when Obied was buying properties for millions, fast cars etc? This was in the paper several times.

Either Robertson was monumentally stupid not to see it, or was quite happy for this corruption to be swept under the carpet. Trying to present NSW labor as a shining light of moral standards will require all of the old guard including himself to go.

SM of all the blues you and I have had, must have given your inability to see both sides.
In this matter you are wrong.
I know this blokes heart.
I know and respect him.
He, long ago was our life boat, he entered Parliament to try to get the ship sailing .
He first fought power sell off, even at risk to himself.
He was pushed aside, marginalized, by that dreadful fat hungry criminal Obeid.
And came up smiling.
Few see the first thing he did, on gaining his job, rebuilding the very shreds of our party, was to kick the remaining dregs out.
No widow dressing here, his job is massive, but he in time, will return my party,s heart stolen by three years of criminal ownership, and six years of pure filth riding on its back in NSW.
SM, your party, bar Victoria, will soon have all governments.
You appear unconcerned about filth in your ranks, BUT HONEST MEN KNOW
Sir Robin Askin, matched by Neville Wran, was as bent as old Joe.
Your side will one day stand in its own ashes as mine has in NSW and will until knife welding Gillard is gone.
And that day is both certain and sponsored by one eyed folk such as you.

Belly,

So you are claiming that Robertson was completely ignorant of what was going on with Obied and MacDonald? That Obeid was buying multi million dollar houses from the savings of an MP?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/not-so-fast-says-eddie-not-my-man-20130204-2dumn.html
Shadow Minister, even you will note,I continue to post the truth about how far down in to the filth Labor went in NSW.
An unlikely event from you, but in time those who truly love the Coalition, yet demand [an important point] honesty and constant improvement, may post about your side.
As unlikely as it is, they may not have this degree of filth to wade through.
So why?
Tell me SM, WHY would I not include Robbo? if your charge had any truth in it.
Sadly a complement must be given to your side of the house.
Unlike the ALP it is not a death sentence to cross the floor/vote against your team.
Had Robbo or, or many others who had no part in the filth done so?
We must adopt that rule.
Read the links, see for your self, how much power this Obied had, and how filth gathered around him.
My detractors on my side excepted this and continue to by their silence then and now.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/young-labors-faulkner-motion-a--joke-20130205-2dwne.html
Yet another link.
Opportunity,s to post such about our current position are not rare.
In my defense, I need to defend myself, not from the under informed here, but my once life,s mates.
I remind those few, My track record and understanding of politics has been approved of in the past.
This telling link, must be seen in partnership with the others above.
While Labor is confronting its need to reform,while we struggle to put our verbal hands over our eyes, and those of voters.
Survival is threatened.
By the once savior of the ALP.
Its right wing nuts,and party owners/power brokers.
Ostrich, in hiding thier heads, leave far more vunerable parts exposed.
In our refusal to hasten reform, lives the reason Tony Abbott continues to lead.
And because of that, we except the wrong leader Gillard.
Funny stuff politics.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/labor-mates-snowed-under-by-eddie-obeids-generosity-20130205-2dwm0.html

Belly,

Robertson, Conroy, Shorten, Arbib, all enjoyed lavish entertainment by Obeid. Did they all think that Obeid was very good at saving?

Sorry, but "Robo" is just as guilty of turning a blind eye to corruption in the party.

Feeble stuff SM.
Shorten has already said it is not true.
If it is the best you can do ok by me.
Have you ever got a freebe from work contacts, little bottle of Scotch from a successful tender?
Are you sure?
Ever let some one use you boat or weekender?

Belly,

So your argument is that Robo is only a little corrupt? Accepting this type of largess would get most employees fired.

Yes I have received a bottle of whisky, wine or even a ticket to a game, but I have never accepted a weekend at a ski resort or anything worth more than $100 even for contracts worth tens of millions. All my tenders are above board and transparent. It appears that for Labor and the unions they have different ethical standards.

Belly how I love that dribble you post about the ALP. Its so comical Oh! my god my pants are on fire, quick pour some petrol on me.
Corruption in the Labor Party has been a way of life from the year dot. If you want to get ahead in labour politics you have to be prepared to do favours, scratch backs, while watching your back and kick heads. Its all in a days work for the ALP poly.
The conservatives have had their corrupt ones, and some have been very good at it, Robin Askin springs to mind here in NSW. But the conservatives have never had the bite that a good corrupt Labor pol has. must be something in their diet.

The two posts above mine come from the extremes.
Greens and far right tea party.
Middle Australia should note, both do a disservice to truth.
I point out both refuse! to even look, at filth within their own party,s.
And that I have dug out every grub and every grubby issue in my side.
Why then would I hide Robbo if SM charge had any truth?
I would not, ever.
See I know the current NSW inquiry is in to the single biggest political corruption KNOWN/UNCOVERED in my country.
I think *nothing less* than full public exposure, and commitment to change is good enough.
My rabid opponents?
I see no wish for accountability from them, for their side.
Robbo stopped at an emptryhome on the snow slopes, hardly as bad as SM states.
Liberal, their slightly twisted friend Paul, have chosen to hide their sides wrongs,yet many forced resignations, over shares and AWB over many purely corrupt acts, from their side, is OK,in doing so?
Sponsoring the next scandal.
Robbo will lead NSW Labor one day, to government,that concerns SM , more than faults in his team.
Paul, lost in a moving world in the 1940,s wanting other than what the rest do.