Just on the subject of debt - there was a big hullabaloo at the end of 2011 when US public debt reached 15 trillion...it's now heading for 16.5 trillion (and I think it took around 7 months to go from 15 to 16 trillion). Gross debt to GDP ratio is 105.7 percent. Total debt has jumped from around 54 trillion to 58 trillion in the same space of time, so nothing has changed in the US - deeper and deeper into debt.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Btw, cheap Chinese imports have helped to keep the US economy afloat in recent years.

Arjay, please note, comments about the fed reserve, I say time and again crying wolf in the end lets true conspiracy's remain hidden.
Lets not panic at the use of SOCIALISM here, it is and we would never except different, entrenched in our Capitalist system.
Health education so very much more here to stay.
Capitalism has changed/been modified to take that, in this country not America.
It is in our hands, do we abandon our needy, I doubt we ever will.
Credit and debt, as inferred in Pericles post is not the problem.
It is the very oil Capitalism needs to run on.
Providing you pay the interest on time.
Just as a housing loan can overnight, go from manageable to? imposable.
Any thought Australia's debt, in any way, is crippling shouts we are doomed!
IF true the world is too for we stand out as far better than two thirds of the world, more in fact.
Credit buys a home and car furniture and food.
Remove it/borrowing, and then the word is in crisis.
I recommend researching the history of banking, in England and Europe, ending with the fed reserve.
Take care to avoid the BS, you will at times be very deep in it,but a truth that should concern us lives there too.

An excellent summation, Bazz. "I am looking some time into the future, but certainly in the lifetime of many of us. The real problem is how do we get from where we are now with some countries with growth and some with zero or negative growth and to the place where we all will be with everyone trying to achieve zero growth. There is another major problem, can the world in a steady state economy support 7 billion people ? If someone thinks they can have infinite growth on a finite planet they are either a madman or an economist."

The answer to your penultimate question is a resounding 'No', and that means a great deal of misery that will make what's happening in Syria look like a birthday party. Interesting Stats, Poirot, and your comments on China vs USA are pertinent, Arjay, however, their 'niceness' doesn't last too long if you look at the countries that border theirs that they have annexed. They just have a different way of colonising, something like 'slowly, slowly catchee monkey.'

Article by George Monbiot on neo-liberalism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/14/neoliberal-theory-economic-failure

You worry about the silliest things, Arjay.

>>Pericles,in 2008 the Gillard Govt borrowed $40 billion from China.I wonder if we got that loan in $ US.<<

And it's all because you can't be bothered to learn basic finance. It's a lot like a kid being scared of the bogeyman under the bed - the fear goes away when they understand the world a little more clearly.

I would be interested to hear what it is about allowing China to buy Australian Bonds that causes this concern of yours.

China is (in case you hadn't heard) a major trading partner, and they are as free to invest in Aussie Bonds as anyone else. Unless you have information to the contrary, by the way, it is likely that this debt is denominated in Australian dollars, much as the loans to NAB and Westpac from the US Fed around the same time would have been denominated in US dollars. It was a reflection at the time that lending to Australia was a Good Thing, given our relative stability and our measured response to the impact of the GFC.

These actions - overseas investment in Australian debt - are also beneficial in keeping our internal interest rates down. Demand has a habit of lowering the price of debt, you know.

>>China is well liked in Africa because they are helping their countries and not totally enslaving them in debt.<<

You really have completely the wrong idea about debt, don't you Arjay. Rather than "enslave" people, it makes the lender far more concerned about the stability and prosperity of the borrower. Just like your bank manager would far rather you paid the interest on your mortgage, than be forced to foreclose and lose money.

Hope this helps.

I no longer follow the Forum much as I got tired of the endless, carping negativity.
Now and again I drop by to see if things have improved.
Not much, it would appear.
So, here's another view of Australia:
Our debt levels are low.
It's easy to legitimately and honestly make money here; I doubt if it has ever been easier.
Our biology related industries, which is where the next wave of wealth creation will be, are doing very well
Our stock market is somewhat undervalued so has plenty of upside.
Our high dollar, while hurting local businesses, makes it easy to invest overseas. I'm having no trouble making healthy profits on US property.
Our national debt is one of the lowest in the developed world.
For all the yelling and screaming, our political system works better than most.
We have amongst the lowest levels of corruption in the world.
I have to ask if many contributors travel internationally much. I spend five or six weeks each year in Europe and usually drop in on an Asian country on the way.
Every time I land back in Brisbane, I return with a strong sense that here in Australia, we've got it about as right as any nation has.
There is so much about this country that is fantastic, especially the economic opportunities.
So why do so many here spend so much time carping about how awful everything is.
Many of those who are alway complaining should perhaps look closer to home for a reason and quit blaming the rest of the nation and the world for their situation.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au