Stephan Molyneux makes an articulate and convincing argument as to why the West on it's present course has no way out of this economic mess.http://freedomainradio.com/ Molyneux is rated amongst the the top ten most influential people on the alternate media.You can down load this video off his website.

Molyneux argues that social programs are doing the exact opposite of their intended purpose.In the USA $168 per day,per household is spent on social programs which is 20% more than median incomes.

In 1950 85% of men of working age had a job,while today only 65% do.In July 2012 the USA lost 1.2 million jobs and created 847,000 but 73% of these were Govt jobs.The USA has lost 9 million private sector jobs since 2008.

Molyneux has checked this incredible statistic.41% of Americans of working age are not employed or are not looking for work.This is 88 million Americans.

The average Govt sector worker gets 60% more money than the average private sector worker.

US share of global GDP has fallen from 32% in 2001 to 21% in 2011.43% of Americans spend more than they earn.Real inflation is 10% so people have their wages being cut in half every 7 years.

We are going the way of the USA.The only thing that has saved us is a small population and the sale of our resources.China is slowing but also they are securing resources in Africa and South America.

I don't think Australians have the nous or the will to see the dangers and initiate the necessary changes.Our taxes are now used to bribe and seduce us all into crumbling socialist state by both major parties.

While I agree with Molyneux about the impotence of the Socialist State,he thinks that the US Federal Reserve is an arm of the Govt.The US Govt does not share in the profits of the Fed.It is a private banking cartel owned by numerous banking interests.

You & he are probably right Arjay.

I can't remember now who it was that suggested that a democracy was a self destroying thing. Sooner or later the smarties decide to vote for a living, rather than work for it. Human nature being what it is, so many would rather bludge on the rest than work, no matter how much better off they could be working.

We are definitely well down this path, when people expect to be able to live permanently on unemployment benefits, rather than have it tide them over while finding other employment.

It is even more true today, with all the bleeding hearts, do gooders, & academics, wanting to cry all over their chosen people.

I am so sick of hearing about the underprivileged, & the disadvantaged. I would love to take them to PNG, where the only thing the government does for you is send the tax man to your village to collect your head tax. Saves you walking too far.

Funny how an empty belly makes it easier for people to get off their butt.

My reputation may well be in tatters, but in part I agree with arjay.
We are, for the most part, powerless in this matter.
I constantly warn arjay and others, conspiracy's so silly they are laughable, hide real truths.
FEW will understand the truth of about Americas Federal Reserve bank.
Even less, will understand the true history of banking.
EVEN IF you research the subject on line, you will find an awful truth, hiding in plain site, aside conspiracy theory's,that taint the truth.
Capitalism, the only true driver of sustainable humanity, other than Dictatorship is in trouble.
It, by its very nature, is self sustaining, able to regrow after injury.
But this can not be forever.
America, can not pay its debt in the lifetime of your grand childrens grand kids.
Parts of Europe without the harshest of actions, are about to fail.
We, in comparison, are safe.
But in truth we must understand with no need for our exported minerals, we must shrink back to a food providing nation to exist.
Food is the last to fall in value and the one thing a hungrey world demands, but can they pay for it.
This gloomy forecast has a back door,a way out.
Will will see it used, not our great grand kids, maybe us,War changes all things.
War is/was/and will be the prop under a lot of problems and the answer to this trouble, no matter who wins.

I trying to reduce my profile on OLO, as are sult of a few, MUST not let Hasbeen,s words pass without comment.
While we area Capitalist Nation, under both forms of Government we too, are in part Socialist.
IF ONLY, the right, extreme that is Hasbeen,s home, he may not understand but it is truth.
And indeed the bleeding hearted destroyers on the left, could only see a truth.
This country is the birth place of the term fair go mate.
The center will not ever use words like Hasbeens, or thoughts.
But will,and do, demand only the true needy get help change, reform,better out comes for those in need not verbal bashing.
Let us be proud most think like that not Hasbeens kicking the true poor.

Hasbeen and Belly.Look at these stats for Australia.Our Demographics;
24% of our pop is 18 yrs or younger.
19-64 yr old make up 63% of our pop.
65+ yr old make up 13% of our pop.

We have close enough to 23 million people and 11.5 million in our workforce.You only have to work one day per week to be considered employed.

Our workforce potentially 19-64yrs should be 14.5 million.So there is 3 million people at given time of working age who are not working.This means that 20% of our potential working pop is not working,compared to the USA which has 41% not working.

Molyneau argues that in the USA the compliance regulations,legal BS and OH&S are stopping people from opening businesses.The same environment occurs here where there is no incentive to employ people.That's why there are so many sole traders and partenerships.

We cannot keep borrowing money to pay for social security and employ people in cushy jobs in the Public Service.Both Greece and Spain did this and now live in serfdom to the banking system.

I was enjoying nodding my head to the general dilemmas of economic problems created by everybody's addictions 'to kicking the can down the road'...

It got a little more confusing with the need for capitalism not socialism - but without the banking component apparently.

But the second comment furrowed my brow.

If he is correct about everything else, why does Molyneux disagree with you that "The US Govt does not share in the profits of the Fed.It is a private banking cartel owned by numerous banking interests."

http://qz.com/42515/the-us-fed-made-a-greater-profit-than-apple-and-exxon-combined-last-year/

WM Trevor why does Molyneau insist that the Fed is a Govt body? It could well be that he does not want to stir up big Bro and suffer their wrath.He does attack the banking system for printing too much money.You don't attack a bull elephant head on with a spear.Perhaps he trying to come in through the back door and make real changes.

The US Fed has enormous power since they create all the money for the US Govt to function.They are the defacto Govt since they control the money and thus Congress.This reality also tells us that they must control the US Military.

With the sale of the Commonwealth Bank + 4 State banks our Govt is beholden to these international central banks for new money and will not critise them.No one has been charged for the looting our our super and the theft continues with the depreciation of our curencies.

Our RBA should at least be creating our money of 3% inflation since this is our wealth that is being created as debt by the private banking system.This could reduce our taxes by $36 billion pa + interest or improve our infrastructure without private tolls.

I'm with you, Arjay. And Belly, your first post makes sense too...:)

Tha labours of Sisyphus spring to mind, WmTrevor, when it comes to the task of educating Arjay about simple financial matters.

The significance of the fact that the Fed is obliged by law to remit its profits to the US Government seems to have passed completely over his head. Sad, really.

This was a bit off-putting:

>>Molyneux is rated amongst the the top ten most influential people on the alternate media<<

Not a particularly reassuring encomium, somehow.

But I absolutely agree that government bureaucracy is a fundamental drain on any developed country's productivity. On the other hand, I find this fascination with the consequences of debt to be all a little... well, morbid.

Belly sums up the emotion:

>>America, can not pay its debt in the lifetime of your grand childrens grand kids<<

What has become very, very clear over the course of the GFC is that it is not the amount of debt that is critical. If it were, then Japan would be a worse basket-case than Greece.

What is important is the ability to repay. I well remember taking on the mortgage for my first house. I was instantly in a position where my debt, expressed in relation to my "GDP", was substantially over 200%. This has never, at any stage in my life, through any number of changes in the security itself - I have moved house more than a dozen times - been a problem, as it has been my ability to service the debt on an annual basis that has been the critical factor.

And as we know, and have seen in the actions and reactions of various bodies such as the IMF, lenders will bend over backwards to retain that repayment stream, even to the extent of taking a "haircut" along the way.

The way some people view debt is almost Victorian-puritanical, something distasteful, to be avoided at all costs, or at least eliminated at the earliest possible moment.

Maybe it is time we grew out of this pointless panic, and took a realistic view of what debt is, and how it is managed.

Seems so, Pericles... "The labours of Sisyphus... " (Did you know he pioneered rock and roll?), not for the task of education but for the expectation of an apology for demonstrated untruths.

Perhaps the common courtesies could be encouraged if we adopted the philosphy of King David I of Scotland 'who knew how to entice a whole people, once rough and rustic (rudem et agrestem), to adopt manners which were civilized and domesticated (ad mores compositos et edomitos). According to William of Malmesbury, David used fiscal policy to that end, offering tax exemptions to all those Scots who were prepared to live in a more cultivated fashion, dress more elegantly and eat with more refinement’.

Yes, things are a'changing. No doubt about that.
Capitalism itself will have to change.
An economy, like Australia's is like any business, too much overhead
and the business is too busy looking after the trimmings instead of the
production of necessities.
Our future GDP will be very low or zero or negative.
This will force us to live within our means, as no one will want to
lend us money.
That was something interesting I read recently;
China is lending US dollars wherever they can so as to unload their
very big US$ holdings. They are hoping to get the Yuan to be part of
a basket of currencies to be the world reserve currency.

Just like the US cannot repay its debt, nor will we if we do not do it
very soon indeed.
A default, either by repudiation or inflation is inevitable for the US$.

Pericles said;
Maybe it is time we grew out of this pointless panic, and took a
realistic view of what debt is, and how it is managed.

Your viewpoint was correct in the past economies, but everything has changed.
In the era of expensive and restricted energy which has become such
a large percentage of a countries GDP, the old rules no longer apply.
Credit is becoming more difficult and it will be interesting to watch
infrastructure funding experience.
The NSW government is intending to raise partnership funding for the M4
extention, so that should be interesting.

Another example of total failure of Government policy then, WmTrevor.

>>David used fiscal policy to that end, offering tax exemptions to all those Scots who were prepared to 'live in a more cultivated fashion, dress more elegantly and eat with more refinement’<<

In that context, the haggis must be the ultimate symbol of revolt against royal edicts, flouting the test on all three counts.

Och weel.

And I was being quite serious, Bazz, and very modern.

>>Your viewpoint was correct in the past economies, but everything has changed<<

Past economies did not, except in wartime, routinely run up the kind of debt we are seeing as commonplace today. The difference is that we live predominantly in a virtual economy, courtesy of the permanent split away from "hard" currencies such as gold, cowrie shells and beads. No-one these days would consider selling Manhatten, for example, for any number of Venetian Trade Beads. We have moved on.

The breakthrough was so simple that no-one actually noticed it. Freed from the need to count the gold bars in the vault, the banking community started to not only describe their loan portfolio as assets, but actually treat them as such. The measurement of their worth came to be expressed as a percentage of their value (ROA), not as that value itself. Having a billion dollars of performing loans was goodness; having ten billion of impaired loans was - and is - somewhat frowned upon.

The phrase "too big to fail" applies in this case. Not in its pejorative sense, which is so often bandied around by people who like to find culprits that they can wave their puny fists at, but in the sense of "we each have the other by the balls; now, we're not going to hurt each other, are we."

Which, interestingly enough, is where the US/China game is being played at the moment.

>>China is lending US dollars wherever they can so as to unload their very big US$ holdings.<<

The key phrase here is "wherever they can".

Think about it.

errr, Pericles, I think we may be at cross purposes.
The point I was trying to make was that all debt is going to become a
thing of the past. There will be exceptions, eg barter in one form or
another including futures trading.
In a steady state economy there is no growth, so there is nothing to
repay debt with.
I am looking some time into the future, but certainly in the lifetime
of many of us. The real problem is how do we get from where we are now
with some countries with growth and some with zero or negative growth
and to the place where we all will be with everyone trying to achieve
zero growth.
There is another major problem, can the world in a steady state
economy support 7 billion people ?

If someone thinks they can have infinite growth on a finite planet
they are either a madman or an economist.

Pericles,in 2008 the Gillard Govt borrowed $40 billion from China.I wonder if we got that loan in $ US.

China is well liked in Africa because they are helping their countries and not totally enslaving them in debt.The West used to have the monopoly because our private banks would not let them trade or have technology unless they were enslaved by their debt money system.

Remember Domonic Strauss Khan ,the ex-head of the IMF? He was going to bring back bank regulation.That's why they white anted him with scandal.

The USA now has troops in 35 African countries trying to contain China.How do you think this will play out?

Arjay,

You're right. There is no incentive for personal initiative and business enterprise. The government bureacracies,academics, elites are making us slaves.

There is an English woman,Celia Green who describes what's happening in the UK and you may as well say the West in general, as Totalitarian/Communism. She was some kind of child genious and is appalled at the education system in the UK. She is doing an independent university and doesn't want graduates that have already been through the system because they would not be independent thinkers, but clones. I perceive what's happening as a pretty leftist takeover colluding with the vacuous latte sippers. I agree with Celia Green.

My father's own company was ruined by Labor - payroll tax. He had 13 employees and said he could of employed more. He ended up having to work from home with my sister as his part-time secretary. He quickly then went Liberal.

There only seems favour for big governments (nanny states) and corporations - like how banks have become vampirical. All they want is a debt ridden society. Corporations get cheap rent in comparison to independent businesses. Now we have our ugly Westfields which are destroying villages, towns - ie. community culture because corporations are ruining local businesses. And everywhere around the world will end up looking the same. Now that's a scary thought. Any villages that survive will end up becoming Disneylands.

I think Ben Chifley had a good idea in wanting to nationalise banks. But what did the people do, voted this one good man out for that very reason.

I think we are all sleepwalking - it's like people have been doped. People have become very indifferent, and I must say stressed. There are a lot of zombies and psychopaths in my workplace. But she'll be right, mate!

Arjay said;
Pericles,in 2008 the Gillard Govt borrowed $40 billion from China.
I wonder if we got that loan in $ US.

I am sure we did and probably the money was used for our foreign aid to China !

They must think we are bl%*dy stupid, and we are !

Constance said;
Any villages that survive will end up becoming Disneylands.

Well no actually, smaller towns and villages are the future.
Already Big Malls in the US are closing down. There is even a web site
for closed malls !
Big business, world trade, exporting jobs will end.
Local manufacture, farmers markets, no 1000km food, local trades thats
the way it will be. It is virtually inevitable if we can get enough
people back on the land as farmers. Otherwise it would be chaos.

Just on the subject of debt - there was a big hullabaloo at the end of 2011 when US public debt reached 15 trillion...it's now heading for 16.5 trillion (and I think it took around 7 months to go from 15 to 16 trillion). Gross debt to GDP ratio is 105.7 percent. Total debt has jumped from around 54 trillion to 58 trillion in the same space of time, so nothing has changed in the US - deeper and deeper into debt.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Btw, cheap Chinese imports have helped to keep the US economy afloat in recent years.

Arjay, please note, comments about the fed reserve, I say time and again crying wolf in the end lets true conspiracy's remain hidden.
Lets not panic at the use of SOCIALISM here, it is and we would never except different, entrenched in our Capitalist system.
Health education so very much more here to stay.
Capitalism has changed/been modified to take that, in this country not America.
It is in our hands, do we abandon our needy, I doubt we ever will.
Credit and debt, as inferred in Pericles post is not the problem.
It is the very oil Capitalism needs to run on.
Providing you pay the interest on time.
Just as a housing loan can overnight, go from manageable to? imposable.
Any thought Australia's debt, in any way, is crippling shouts we are doomed!
IF true the world is too for we stand out as far better than two thirds of the world, more in fact.
Credit buys a home and car furniture and food.
Remove it/borrowing, and then the word is in crisis.
I recommend researching the history of banking, in England and Europe, ending with the fed reserve.
Take care to avoid the BS, you will at times be very deep in it,but a truth that should concern us lives there too.

An excellent summation, Bazz. "I am looking some time into the future, but certainly in the lifetime of many of us. The real problem is how do we get from where we are now with some countries with growth and some with zero or negative growth and to the place where we all will be with everyone trying to achieve zero growth. There is another major problem, can the world in a steady state economy support 7 billion people ? If someone thinks they can have infinite growth on a finite planet they are either a madman or an economist."

The answer to your penultimate question is a resounding 'No', and that means a great deal of misery that will make what's happening in Syria look like a birthday party. Interesting Stats, Poirot, and your comments on China vs USA are pertinent, Arjay, however, their 'niceness' doesn't last too long if you look at the countries that border theirs that they have annexed. They just have a different way of colonising, something like 'slowly, slowly catchee monkey.'

Article by George Monbiot on neo-liberalism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/14/neoliberal-theory-economic-failure

You worry about the silliest things, Arjay.

>>Pericles,in 2008 the Gillard Govt borrowed $40 billion from China.I wonder if we got that loan in $ US.<<

And it's all because you can't be bothered to learn basic finance. It's a lot like a kid being scared of the bogeyman under the bed - the fear goes away when they understand the world a little more clearly.

I would be interested to hear what it is about allowing China to buy Australian Bonds that causes this concern of yours.

China is (in case you hadn't heard) a major trading partner, and they are as free to invest in Aussie Bonds as anyone else. Unless you have information to the contrary, by the way, it is likely that this debt is denominated in Australian dollars, much as the loans to NAB and Westpac from the US Fed around the same time would have been denominated in US dollars. It was a reflection at the time that lending to Australia was a Good Thing, given our relative stability and our measured response to the impact of the GFC.

These actions - overseas investment in Australian debt - are also beneficial in keeping our internal interest rates down. Demand has a habit of lowering the price of debt, you know.

>>China is well liked in Africa because they are helping their countries and not totally enslaving them in debt.<<

You really have completely the wrong idea about debt, don't you Arjay. Rather than "enslave" people, it makes the lender far more concerned about the stability and prosperity of the borrower. Just like your bank manager would far rather you paid the interest on your mortgage, than be forced to foreclose and lose money.

Hope this helps.

I no longer follow the Forum much as I got tired of the endless, carping negativity.
Now and again I drop by to see if things have improved.
Not much, it would appear.
So, here's another view of Australia:
Our debt levels are low.
It's easy to legitimately and honestly make money here; I doubt if it has ever been easier.
Our biology related industries, which is where the next wave of wealth creation will be, are doing very well
Our stock market is somewhat undervalued so has plenty of upside.
Our high dollar, while hurting local businesses, makes it easy to invest overseas. I'm having no trouble making healthy profits on US property.
Our national debt is one of the lowest in the developed world.
For all the yelling and screaming, our political system works better than most.
We have amongst the lowest levels of corruption in the world.
I have to ask if many contributors travel internationally much. I spend five or six weeks each year in Europe and usually drop in on an Asian country on the way.
Every time I land back in Brisbane, I return with a strong sense that here in Australia, we've got it about as right as any nation has.
There is so much about this country that is fantastic, especially the economic opportunities.
So why do so many here spend so much time carping about how awful everything is.
Many of those who are alway complaining should perhaps look closer to home for a reason and quit blaming the rest of the nation and the world for their situation.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anthonyve,Which Govt Dept do you work in? Perhaps you're a Banker.In most of the real world in private enterprise we are all working longer for less.

Belly>> My reputation may well be in tatters<<

Welcome to my place Belly my china.

>>FEW will understand the truth of about Americas Federal Reserve bank <<

Listen to AJ, he is one of the few.

Anthonyve>> Many of those who are alway complaining should perhaps look closer to home for a reason and quit blaming the rest of the nation and the world for their situation.
I'm having no trouble making healthy profits on US property<<

Anthony, I agree that all is about effort, but it is a bit self proclaiming to bag those who are not travelling as well as you.

Reminds me of this, funny mate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Kum8OUTuk

You make a good point, sonofgloin.

It wasn't my intention to bag those not doing as well as I. Maybe some here are doing a whole lot better.

My point was that the endless complaining from some, (present company excepted), about every aspect of our nation is exceedingly tedious, to say nothing of deterringly boring.

But, anyway, let me put the cat among the pigeons, by observing that the AGW denialists appear of late to be keeping a low profile.

Perhaps they have accepted reality...

I hope so for that alone would be a major and well earned victory for the Forum.

Anthony
http://wwwobservationpoint.com.au

On reflection, perhaps I ought to apologise.

Yes, I was being just the tiniest bit mischievous in my last post.

Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

I dunno Anthony, overstatement in the first post....understatement in the following….” just the tiniest bit mischievous”.

A red rag provocateur I would suggest….lol.

Ahh, caught in the act.
I confess all and plead guilty to a momentary abheration. Although... perhaps that's an understatement too.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Athonyve what ever else I am I am a realist.
On seeing you leave I knew in part I was a reason for it.
So be it, even if you despise me, I value your posts and the way your mind works, very much.
But the last month has seen me contemplate going too.
A thought has stopped me, so far.
Every opinion has value, some far less than others, and for some their contribution is nothing more, or less than the Australian leg pull.
It works far less in print, actually back fires often, I by choice, think the truly offensive few, [all ALP voters betray our county] come from those type not as most would think .
It is a fact, I have found no forum as good, and many far worse.
In respect of my views, sometime harsh even rude about my lifes loves ALP/UNIONS it remains my view both are too important to except second best from.
You are right about Global Warming, it will be worth waiting to see how some switch as Liberal policy will be forced to,in the near future.
SOG,AJ has it right? bloke it is folk who think like arjay that hide every real conspiracy.

Hi Belly,
Quite the contrary.
You don't insult people who hold a different opinion to yours and you explain the reasoning behind your positions on various issues.
Moreover, you are usually looking to find a way towards something better rather than others here who simply make extreme assertions that they cannot possibly support and then call those who disagree with them stupid.
As for your passionate support of the union movement, I have sat in enough boardrooms and strategy meetings to know that without the power of collective bargaining, within a single generation we would be back where we were at the end of the Nineteenth Century.
I once attended a corporate strategy meeting at my employer's head office in Chicago where a financial analyst presented calculations showing that annually the cost of paying out for injuries would be less than the cost of a particular non-mandatory injury prevention program I was keen to implement, so we should not proceed.
The board agreed. There was no discussion about the injured employees; it was purely a cost analysis issue.
One of the reasons why I quit the corporate world.
So you'll get no argument from me as to the need for strong collective bargaining capability.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Harking back to the reality we are all facing this year.Max Keiser says watch the collapse of the US Bond Market.This will herald hyper-inflation and bring on the collapse of the derivative market.

I'm a realist and like many others realise that our system has become totally corrupt and dysfunctional.

There is a real possibilty of war with China/Russia and civil war within the US as Obama tries to dis-arm the US citizens who continue to suffer theft via the counterfeiting of their currency by the US Federal Reserve.

We can reduce the pain here by puting pressure on our pollies to get the RBA to create at least our inflationary money of $36 billion pa.It will not affect our private banks since they borrow this money from OS Banks that create it with the click of computer mouse.In fact it will make our banks more profitable since our inflationary money will stay here.

So contact you local member and get our RBA off it big fat impotent backside.

Arjay, I'm a little surprised to hear you describe yourself as a realist.

A realist is a person who's understanding of the world is real.

So, my question to you is this. What have you predicted that has actually come to pass?

In other words, do you have data to support that assertion?

Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.a

Sorry arjay, I to think you over generous in that description.
You at times, get close to a rare but true conspiracy, but your reputation see,s others not want to look.
I know the history of modern banking is in need of a very good look.
And if anyone does not think conspiracy's exist try this.
Enterprise bargaining, big international building products/timber/cement/every thing firm, just told the world yesterday, it is about to dump 700 workers.
Now in cutting workers wages to the bone, a person from their side of the room, told us the negotiators would be paid very big bonuses for doing just that.
Mate you are no realist, but if others truly research world banking, how we went from no interest loans in the middle ages to banks lending funds they never had?
stranger than fiction.

Anthonyve do the sums youself.The world's derivative market is 10 times the GDP of the planet ie $ 700 trillion of derivatives.When that implodes your super will be worth a fraction of its present value.

Well, here's my point, Arjay, you've been forecasting disaster for ages, but things just keep getting better,especially here in Australia.

I note this morning that the head of the worlds biggest bond fund just gave Federal Labor's management of the economy a big tick as we moved from the world's 10th most secure currency to the world's seventh most secure currency in just three months.

Must be frustrating for you, all this good news.

Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

You do insist on making the same basic error, Arjay, over and over again.

>>The world's derivative market is 10 times the GDP of the planet ie $ 700 trillion of derivatives.When that implodes your super will be worth a fraction of its present value.<<

As I have explained on numerous occasions, you can only arrive at this figure if you add the puts and calls together, instead of netting them off against each other. It is also worth pointing out that an "implosion", as you call it, would actually require them to be netted off, so the impact on your super will be minimal.

So long as you and Barnaby Joyce keep making these elementary errors, you will - both - lack any financial credibility whatsoever.

Arjay To much doom and gloom forecasting, conspiracy's are just that , every now and again a version of a conspiracy may get up, but very rare.

When Max Keiser,Gerald Celente,Webster Tarpley and hundreds of others are proven correct,will you lot admit how wrong you were? I think not.

It will be a case of moron this later.

This is sort of apropos your last post, Arjay. I'm only an occasional visitor to this forum, but I don't think I have ever noticed anyone changing their minds because of what another person has written. It seems that everyone sits down at their computers with their opinions intact and then 'hurl/throw/toss them to their 'opponents' until the end of the week, and they everyone goes on to next week's 'game'. Sort of like a replacement for Saturday footy with the blokes. Or am I missing something?

ybgirp it is called cognative dissonance.Emotional feelings over ride logical thought.

If enough people see the dangers we can turn this around.The Banking Military Complex which caused the GFC have Obama sending troops to 35 Africian countries to contain China.If that does not alarm rational people then there is little hope.

Nearly everyone lost super in the GFC and there is proof of fraud on a massive scale but people are distracted and outraged by the cheating of cycle rider Lance Armstrong while they all get taken to the cleaners by this totally corrupt system that is bringing on WW3.

Why are not people initiating massive legal actions against these corrupt institutions?

My detractors just don't want to get because their secure vision of the world will be distrupted.

Arjay tell us what these troops are doing in Africa, to stop china.

Arjay,
Given that so far not a single one of the disasters you're regularly predicting has actually happened, isn't it likely that, for all your purported certainty, you've got it wrong again.

I believe it was Mark Twain who said, "In my life I have feared a great many things. Few of them actually came to pass."

Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

579, The US will do their usual bit of a small number of troops and use money to corrupt Govt Officials.They will locate in countries primarily where China has yet to help develop.There are many subversive things they can do like paying the poor in those countries to sabotage counstruction ,oil rigs or murder those helping the Chinese.The West is very practised at this corrupt form of subversive colonialism.They know what works.

When the USA attacked Libya thousands of Chinese oil workers were forced to leave.Gaddafi was developing a new gold backed currency for Africa to force out the US $.That's why he had to go.

Why would not these countries say no to US Troops on their soil? This is the most powerful military on the planet and they can just point to what happened to Libya and Colonel Gaddafi also offer bribes. Stick and carrot approach.

The US is also vastly increasing its presentence in the Pacific.China is feeling very surrounded with the US in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Japan, Australia,Phillipines etc.It will only take one false flag event to set off a powder keg.

The USA with its small strategic nukes thinks that this will give them an edge.They are counting on bluffing both China and Russia by having a short sharp nuclear war primarily in the Northern Hemisphere. They are counting on Russia/China not using lots of big nukes.We are also a serious target.A small nuke war will they think achieve their aim of one world Govt( New World Order), save the world from Global Warming,and bring Russia and China to heel.Nothing like an environmental excuse to justify world fascism.

A lot of ex-CIA think that it is real and many have headed for South America to escape possible chaos.Why do they have 800 empty FEMA camps in the USA? Glen Beck tried to debunk them but couldn't and then was going to do a show on their existance.Within 24 hrs Glen Beck denied their existance and canelled his show.

The Western Oligarchs are serious about WW3. http://www.globalresearch.ca/

My goodness Arjay, you really are wound up.
In the US there is a whole range of off the scale political hype groups.
I think you have read too much of their output. Many of them are
expecting an invasion by US troops into various US states.

That is why some of these gun nuts are armed to the teeth.
It is US troops that they expect to be fighting.

You really need to take a Bex and have a nice lie down.

@ Arjay "My detractors just don't want to get because their secure vision of the world will be disrupted."
You are correct, you're wasting your energy in the same way as freethinkers who attempt to point out the absurdities of belief in an omniscient supernatural superman are wasting energy. People will believe what they want, and then search for like-minded individuals or groups to support them in their prejudices/beliefs. They'd sooner be dead than have their precious hopes and fears disproved. And so it is with climate change. Already official reports have moved their predictions up a notch - six degrees hotter by the end of this century instead of the four they were predicting a month ago, and devastating climatic changes within the next seventeen years.
Bazz, the USA is already at war with its own citizens. They have many more of their own people in prisons than any other so-called 'free' country on earth - and what foul prisons and treatment they are! Surveillance of their own citizens is complete - every email and mobile phone conversation - several billion of them - are recorded and stored every day. Drones are already deployed in USA airspace, or will be soon, to spy on them with cameras that can detect dandruff. So far, they do not intend to arm them with anything except cameras, but they haven't ruled out the possibility. Poverty and unemployment are deliberately managed to create cannon fodder for their armies that soon will be stationed in 130 of the world's nations. They show no sign of changing their habit of provoking recalcitrant leaders such as the president of Iran so as to make him make the first move, giving them the 'excuse' to attack. They cheat their electors, steal elections, buy votes and favours... It is one of the most corrupt nations that calls itself a democracy - and our pathetic PM worships them with the same sort of fervour that inspires fundamentalist religionists.

Don't worry, Arjay. They'll just mint a platinum, trillion dollar coin and fix everything, problem solved. Or they could just declare war in Mali and make a trillion in gold, LOL!

You know I've always wondered why we're not all rich beyond our wildest dreams if all we have to do is make a coin to fix the worlds economic woes? I mean just make a 1000 trillion dollar coin and end world poverty for good. When that runs out we'll just make another one. What's wrong with these fools? It's so simple!