Dear George,

My position is exactly analogous with the Christian position of hating the sin but not the sinner.

The verb, respect, in my dictionary has two meanings, to esteem or have regard for.

I esteem and have regard for you because your previous postings have made you sound like an eminently reasonable, knowledgeable and civilised person.

I do not esteem or have regard for your religious convictions because I cannot ascribe any validity to those convictions. Apparently you feel them strongly and feel they do have validity. My lack of respect for those convictions does not mean I do not respect you as a person.

My oldest son had a Trotzkyist period. I had absolutely no respect for his political opinions in that time. However, I did and do love him deeply.

We certainly need to call evil evil and good good. The problem is that different world views demand different responses to good and evil. In some culture uncles marrying young girls is good. In some cultures killing the unborn is considered good. In some cultures homosexuals are stoned. To respect and love all people is good however to respect all beliefs leads to such idiotic policy as our current Immigration one. The reality is that all are fallen creatures and need a Saviour. Only a conviction from ones Maker will unsear the conscience of fallen creatures. The vacum of morality left by athiesm have done more evil than all religous wars put together.

Runner,

“The vacum of morality left by athiesm have done more evil than all religous wars put together.”

You might want to adjust your spell-checker and grammar program.

Some questions for you about the above comment.

1. Can you enunciate what is this vacuum of atheism of which you speak?

2. How does freely chosen atheism by individuals do ‘evil’?

3. What is this alleged ‘evil’ that is directly attributed to atheism freely chosen by individuals?

4. What is the alleged remedy for this ‘evil’ allegedly done by atheism freely chosen by individuals?

5. Is the remedy to bring back widespread childhood indoctrination of your specific religion/god or should atheists just believe in something which has no evidence at all or have you something else in mind?

6. What is your formula for picking the right religion/god and why is your formula better than that used by the thousands of other religions?

David

I don't know how to answer George's post. It is an interesting article and one that poses some questions worthy of deeper thought. My initial response was similar to Davids about respect the person not the view with the obvious caveat of 'no harm'. But who defines harm?

Some people believe the act of being a non-believer in the supernatural is in itself harmful to the greater morality. Some atheists think religion and evil acts committed in the name of religion means religion should be banned. There are some extreme views out there but thankfully it is not the majority (not in Australia anyway for the most part).

Simply yes we should respect each other's views. It seems a no-brainer really but I acknowledge it is not as easy as it seems.

As far as proselytizing. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with putting forward a view. Much depends on the forum and context. For example it would be wrong in my view to push a particular belief system in a public school which is open to all people and is not established (as say a Catholic School) with a formal religious agenda (other than perhaps a study of comparative religions/cultures/ethics).

As an atheist I am also willing to put forward a view but I don't go around trying to convince people they are 'wrong' (from my perspective) rather preferring to take a reactive approach. People need to find their own place and examine their own thought processes and reasonings but proselytizing in many cases seems to me to be overly intrusive and often the act of fervent believers with many agendas, not all ethically based.

We can all strive to be good people and to treat others with respect and how people choose to enable those behaviours seems a personal choice.

pelican,

“Some people believe the act of being a non-believer in the supernatural is in itself harmful to the greater morality. Some atheists think religion and evil acts committed in the name of religion means religion should be banned. There are some extreme views out there but thankfully it is not the majority (not in Australia anyway for the most part).”

I agree and would point out that most of the views that atheism is harmful would originate from those with a religious perspective. I don’t know of many or any atheists of any worth that think religion should be banned. No doubt there would be some but they are negligible and ineffectual.

“Simply yes we should respect each other's views. It seems a no-brainer really but I acknowledge it is not as easy as it seems.”

Again, I agree, but respecting the views of others must come with a caveat. If those views lead to impinging upon others, it is a right and a duty to object to them.

As an example: In Uganda at the moment there is a push to bring in the death penalty for homosexual acts. Millions of people throughout the world have objected to that view by petition. The views of those attempting to initiate such a foul act should not be respected.

And then we move down the scale to lesser savoury views but still in the objectionable class.

I personally take the right and duty to object to harmful views very seriously.

David

David

thanks for your majoring on something very minor (spelling and grammar). I take it you knew what I was saying by your questions. I must say your wording for your questions are quite ambiguous.

1. Can you enunciate what is this vacuum of atheism of which you speak?

The idiotic belief that we are not being held accountable by a Creator has led to many self appointed gods. Hence because our court systems and judges reward crimminals and punishes victims many young people think they can do what they want with no accountability. The killing of the unborn is just one example of this albiet usually by older people.

2. How does freely chosen atheism by individuals do ‘evil’? did I say that?

Failure to give thanks to the One who gives air to breathe let alone every other good gift in life is plain rude and ignorant.

3. What is this alleged ‘evil’ that is directly attributed to atheism freely chosen by individuals?

pride, greed, lust, murder and every other sin that is common to all men.

4. What is the alleged remedy for this ‘evil’ allegedly done by atheism freely chosen by individuals?

To open their minds to truth instead of inventing their own brand.

5. Is the remedy to bring back widespread childhood indoctrination of your specific religion/god or should atheists just believe in something which has no evidence at all or have you something else in mind?

The failure to teach children about their Maker and Saviour is child abuse. The fantasy of something from nothing doctrine should be exposed for the fraud it is rather than indoctrinating kids.

6. What is your formula for picking the right religion/god and why is your formula better than that used by the thousands of other religions?

Ask Jesus. You might leatrn something from His writings, claims and teachings.