Now it is time to discuss labour leadership.
Who would be strong enough to reverse the present bad decisions, and still have the backing of the party?

Dear worldwatcher,

The only one that springs to mind at the moment
is Bob Carr.

I'll have to give it some more thought and get back
to you.

Car is a highly motivated man, a statesman, and very knowledgeable. His presence would be very beneficial if the need arouse at any time.
What is meant by present bad decisions, or do you mean decisions you don't like. Remembering au is 50/50

Hmmm, I was never impressed by Carr as premier.
He was not a total disaster but not a roaring success either.

What about Martin Ferguson ? He seems more down to earth.

Bazz Every body has faults, no matter who they are, There are several possibilities for labor, who knows what happens. You must have a plan B at any time. But that is a matter for the political party involved. Some probably have more potential than others, if such need arises.
To have a perfect PM would be to much to ask, human beens will be human beans, some are prone to be ignorant and some are prone to be less ambitious than others, some are obsessed with power at any cost to their own well being. The world is full of power drunk individuals. Take Assad and Gadaffi, they fight to the death all for power.
I Suppose it comes down to a persons beliefs and upbringing.
We are headed for an election later this year, no doubt if any political shifting is to take place it best not be to long in coming. Parties like a stable situation going to the poles.

Bob Car for god's sake, a blithering idiot. Obviously you 2 didn't live in NSW during his years. Do you even know anyone who did?

What Labor need is a couple of years on John Howard, followed by a decade of Abbott.

Anything less would be incapable of belting any honesty into the rotting barrel of union dropkicks they are today.

579,

Where would you like to start?
400 boat arrivals up to Dec 23
Foreign aid diverted to this problem
Retirement age up to 67
Single mothers payments reduced
Failed insulation scheme abused through policy not thought out properly
Money being promised to countries where it will never reach the people
Carbon tax which has produced ZERO returns
Paying $50,000 in an effort to make Ashby drop his allegations
Supporting a speaker of the house who made a mockery of his important role
Not accepting culbability for our present deficit.
NBN not included in deficit figures.

These are just a few for starters, and I'll let other posters add more.
These are not my thoughts as you call them, they are indisputable facts.
Who in this tainted government could be trusted as a replacement leader?

Bazz,

Have just done a search on Martin Ferguson. He may be more down to earth, but he's come up through union ranks, and for me that is a problem.
As a small businessman it has been my experience that the original idealogy has been lost over time.
I now see it, especially when labour is in power, as an old boy's club to benefit the few at the top, and allowed to misuse it's unsuspecting members hard earned money to indulge their lifestyles.

Ferguson has also been quoted as saying this country could store nuclear waste, but this would not be politically acceptable. The mere fact that he thinks this way is disquieting.

So I wouldn't endorse him either as a leader.

Hasbeen>> Bob Car for god's sake, a blithering idiot. Obviously you 2 didn't live in NSW during his years. Do you even know anyone who did?<<

Hasbeen old mate, be fair. Carr with Egan and Refshauge delivered ten consecutive budget surpluses. Not bad going….

But he did let infrastructure go to the end of the line in times of plenty, and then was forced take any deal from the private consortiums to build it.

He did reap a staggeringly huge and ongoing fiscal bonanza when NSW house prices and his tax receipts went through the roof in a five year housing boom. But unhappily I could not see what we taxpayers got for that revenue either.

Carr is a Fabian like Gillard, so there is a world agenda that comes before and over rides any of our national agendas.

Bob was involved with stem cell research (therapeutic cloning) after his first stint in politics. Perhaps he can knock up a Ben Chifley for us.

Worldwatcher>>579,
Where would you like to start?<<

Then, bang bang bang...lol...

>>These are just a few for starters, and I'll let other posters add more<<

That does not make sense at all WW, we will be here for pages worth.

Let’s list Labors triumphs:
.
the end.

One person that I admire is Penny Wong.
However I realise that to many people
she would be unacceptable for a variety
of reasons. Still it would be interesting
if it did happen by some remote chance.

WW, they all come up through the unions, or legal firms supporting
the unions, so if it is labour it will always be the faceless men.
Remember the question is to pick a leader not a prime minister.

Are we talking to WW today or G kelly which ever one you are. you are supposed to remotely stick with the topic.
I have no problem talking about alt leaders do you.
It should be talked about like anything else.

579,

Still waiting to hear who you think would be a good leader. Was just setting out a reminder for you of decisions made by our current leaders in case you've forgotten.
I'll say it again, these are not my thoughts, they are facts of failed policies and downright lies we have been fed.
E.G. Budget surplus touted to the very end and endorsed by JG until , by his own admission Swan said it isn't going to happen, and JG went pretty quiet.

So, no more statements, just your opinion who would handle labour party affairs better than they are currently being handled? My original question still hasn't been answered by you.

Name calling doesn't hack it with me!
Serious answers to serious questions, should you have any, would be far more fitting, don't you think?

WW good subject.
I admit to being biased.
As a member of and supporter the ALP I have an interest.
I want better for my party, so not Gillard, not Swan.
I firmly believe Democracy is best served when both party's are strong and well lead.
I dread the thought a man I once, not very long ago idolized may get the job, Bill Shorten, or his side kick Conroy.
Time has made the dumping of Rudd much more visible, self interest of power brokers was the only reason it took place.
Greg Combet is my wish, with Faulkner involved as a mover towards the much needed party reforms.
2013 is to be what was it the Queen said about her bad year?
NSW for its past sins/crimes against its self and its members and all voters is to see a greatly improved but not yet back NSW ALP suffer.
In both state and federal voters eyes.
Watch however the emerging scandal! Shorten took the HQ of the AWU when he led it to Victoria.
National head Office of the ALP is going there now.
While my view will not change Shorten will be well received by many, a reward for knifeing Rudd?

WW Hasbeen those quotes gee come on, in paying Ashby the government saw it could cut the costs of long litigation.
If one thing is clear it is this Ashby is as big a grub as Slipper.
I think the thread is a good one.
But turn around, read every post, if you can not find remarks that are just untrue you deserve to be here.
I leave because even the author is not looking for a leader.
Just another opportunity to sling the product of the southern end of a north bound bull!
Are we content to be so very childlike?
See you in another thread

It's irrelevant who leads them as long as the average voter has more sense & not put them into government again for a very, very long time.

Sonofgloin,

"let's list labour's triumphs"

Still racking my brains on that one.

Quite simple really.

Only two persons to choose from :
1. Kelvin Thompson ( Federal Victorian backbencher )
2. Bob Carr

The rest are population boosters, which will result in further distress for habitats, best farmland , social equity and sustainable economics .

Cheers,
Ralph

Bazz,

You're right - I did say leader not p.m. What amazes me is that so few suggestions have been put forward for a strong labour leader!

Especially from those who have been very quick to suggest who in their opinion should lead the liberal party.

Have just noticed Ralph has come up with a couple of names. Thank you for listening to the question Ralph.

I believe Greg Combet or Penny Wong would do a better job than Julia Gillard.

Penny Wong would be my choice, but I doubt the other Labour politicians would elect another woman so soon, especially a gay woman. They aren't modern, forward thinkers.

Wong is very bright and intelligent though, a good public speaker, and is calm in the face of journalist questions...something that can't always be said for both GIllard and Abbott.

The bookies say it is Crean or Rudd, with the walking haircut Smith a distant third.

JG is abysmal. No-one would take her home if they won her in a chook raffle. But would anyone take Crean as second prize or Rudd as third? You would tip them in the Council bin before you'd waste a round trip with the box trailer on any of them.

Julia's work is nearly done, RIP Labor.

'They aren't modern, forward thinkers.'

Thank God for that Susie. In actual fact I would call it backward and regressive in choosing Wong. May be if we keep being 'forward thinkers ' we could have a polygamist or some other destructive family role model.

WW.
Pity you put the word 'good' in your header. It prohibits me from making any suggestion as i simply cannot think of anyone of the current lot that would be passable let alone be good.

In any case they may have little to chose from after the election.

I am looking forward to seeing most of the current Labor members gone for good, and for the good of the country.

Onthebeach,

Love the way you make a succint point with such humour. Always enjoy reading your comments.

Banjo,

We're not doing very well trying to think of someone suitable are we?
Seems few are brave enough to make suggestions. Guess not having much to choose from does make it rather difficult doesn't it?

Oh it goes without saying that Wong wouldn't be your choice Runner!

After reading Sunday's papers I was wondering how you felt about Saint Abbott now, after he denies he ever had a 'problem' with abortion or IVF?

Of course we both know he certainly does have a problem with abortion, legal or otherwise, don't we?

You lot have had at least six suggestions of a leader, but you still want more, how many did you get for the opposition leader. The only one i remember was Turnbull.
Any other questions are against the forum rules, which you should read.

GUILTY!
Yes know I said I would not return.
But I must just this time.
Do not be shocked when I leave this forum.
See in time we all do.
I love the place and its contributors.
But look via my eyes, even briefly at some contributions.
Show me the balance and understanding in claims Carr was a failure in NSW, you can not, it was his leaving that MURDERED MY PARTY.
TELL ME AGAIN all ALP voters ARE AS DESCRIBED OVER AND AGAIN HERE.
SHOW ME any words I ever posted saying any thing like that here in OLO about all Liberals
I fearlessly defend this forum.
BEG still for WW to say he got it wrong, no crime that, but real weakness in not doing it
But look to at individual and hasbeen post history.
My ability to not return serve,has long gone.
A day will come that see,s this lack of respect for half my country,s people will leave me no choice but to leave.
Let us please not have a race to the very bottom.
Carr as SOG [in sog case how good he was in NSW]said, as Ludwig says,as Lexi said, would make a great PM.
Power brokers and his age are the road block that denies him.
No saint up to my earsin verbal tennis but in truth we all can do better.
see you in another thread.

'After reading Sunday's papers I was wondering how you felt about Saint Abbott now, after he denies he ever had a 'problem' with abortion or IVF? '

Susie where did you get the idea that he was a saint? He was born into sin like you and me. Anyone who does not have a ' problem ' with killing the unborn is either ignorant or heartless.

WW,
I am sure there are some current Labor members that hold leadership ambitions.

But who of these would want leadership now, when heading for a massive defeat.

The best they can do is try to hold their seat and then throw their hat in the ring after Gillard is gone.

For the good of the country, after some years Labor may come up with some parliamentry members that do have some common sense and ability.

Turnbull may even change horses if he sees the opportunity, and Labor would be welcome to him. Another member of the AGW religion. No common sense, he would be ideal for them.

Me was think'n. Why doesn't the ALP rope in Eddie Obeid from NSW. A true financial guru, can turn $1M into $100m, that deficit problem would be turned into a surplus in no time with Steady Eddie at the helm, to speed up the process Eddie could bring along Ian Mcdonald, could make him Minister for Every Thing, Macca will cut through red tape, gets thing approved, no problem.

I was wo wondering whether Rob Oakshoot or Peter Slipper might get a run. They are in favour of open and accountable Government.

worldwatcher

Thank you. Your civility and good sense always impress.

runner's dry humour (see above) is delightful. It nearly resulted in a keyboard disaster with my hot java.

Runner>> Thank God for that Susie. In actual fact I would call it backward and regressive in choosing Wong. May be if we keep being 'forward thinkers ' we could have a polygamist or some other destructive family role model<<

R, it’s not logical to exclude Wong because she is a dyke. Homosexuals did not make a lifestyle choice, bisexuals did, and there a load of politicians out there masquerading as hetro’s and getting the moral kudos.

Penny Wong is a smart articulate union lawyer who has been cloistered in the university socialist and then the wider union movement from day one. She has little real understanding of what the plebs are about other than what she reads in the papers. Penny is new Labor, educated up to their back teeth and full of the belief that they know what is best for the underlings they rule.

What is best for Penny is what she regurgitates from international agendas such as AGW. Penny is a Fabian like Bob Carr and for that reason alone she is not on our side….she is an internationalist….and we need a nationalist.

Dear SOG,

I've just read your post where you seemed to
infer that being a "Fabian," was a bad thing
for a politician (in the case of Penny Wong).

I wasn't quite sure what a "Fabian" was
and had to look it up. If you think that
being a "Fabian," is somehow a "shadowy"
thing to be, then what about being a "Freemason?"
Is that also a bad thing?

Because many of our
former Prime Ministers, celebrities, sportsmen,
were Freemasons and many pollies and others still are.
From John Howard, Tony Abbot, Malcolm Turnbull, Kim
Beasley, and the list goes on. BTW - Tony Blair,
Vladimir Putin, Mikhail Gorbachev, Ariel Sharon
are also Freemasons - and the list goes on.
Who's an "internationalist" and "who's a nationalist?"
And why do we need one and not the other? Can't a person
be a nationalist as well as seeing the bigger picture
of the necessity of global interaction as well?

Lexi

thanks for your post. Are you sure that John Howard, Tony Abbot, Malcolm Turnbull, Kim Beasley are/were freemasons? I have not heard that before. I know there are a large number of men in high positions that are freemasons but wonder where you got your info on those you mentioned? Historically catholics and freemasons did not get along. In one Government Department I worked in it helped to be a Catholic but certainly not a freemason.

I was once accused of being a freemason could you believe. While it would not surprise me if some of the men you listed were/are freemasons at one stage a group of men were labelling every second person a freemason. I know many freemasons who are decent men but the beliefs of the freemasons is nothing short of demonic when you look at it closely. They refuse to pray in the name of Jesus and refer to the Great Architect of the Universe.

Banjo,
By the number of comments I've read, it would seem that Labour supporters really like him.
So maybe then they would welcome him as their leader.

Lexi my belle, Freemasons at grass roots level comprise of the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker. Up at around the 33rd degree, everything that comes with power and affluence takes place…..but they do not socially engineer societies.

The Fabians took their name from Fabius Maximus who employed the tactics of harassment and attrition rather than head-on battles. The Fabians have a global agenda that they have implimented by the generational process of placing ideologues in top government authorities and NGO’s. Decisions are then made for a global agenda, not a national one.

Lexi, I example Miliband, a Fabian.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2041593/Ed-Miliband-admits-Labours-immigration-policy-DID-drive-wages-living-standards.html
>> Labour’s open-door immigration policy drove down wages and living standards in Britain, party leader Ed Miliband has admitted.

He conceded that the last government ‘got it wrong’ on border controls and said that British workers had been ‘undercut’.

However, Miliband is still refusing to match the Tory commitment to reduce net migration –<<

He admits that Labours “swamp the country policy” is a dismal failure, and the last thing he says is that he won’t change it….why?
Why admit to it and then say bugger you, suffer, we are not changing. Because it is the agenda of the Fabians to break down the homogeneous nature of the first world. He can't retract from it in the same manner Gillard can't retract...it is not their decision. It comes from an ideolgue in Europe.

Lexi, there are many agendas to control the globe, and unlike the European banking cartels that now control all currencies and all international trade and finance, the Fabians control the bureaucrats.

Governments come and governments go, but the bureaucrats endure.

Who would be a good alternative labour leader?

Me!!

No

On second thoughts, I couldn’t hack it.

I nominate Ralph Bennett!

<< Only two persons to choose from :

1. Kelvin Thompson ( Federal Victorian backbencher )
2. Bob Carr

The rest are population boosters… >>

Absolutely right Ralph.

Dear SOG,

Thanks for that. I've certainly got a great
deal to learn.

With all the choices at hand, it would be hard going to find a replacement for Julia. So motivated and person friendly, It is probably best left as is.

Why can't they recycle Bob Brown as Labor leader? He has done the job before. The Greens know it was an injustice that Julia got paid for it.

Lexi>> Thanks for that. I've certainly got a great deal to learn.<<

Lexi, my family was red as red labor, involved at branch and state level. I was indoctrinated into football and Labor politics at our dinner table. They were the only subjects discussed and I only discovered that there was a conservative party when I entered uni, an overstatement of course.

My father turned his back on the party in the 1970’s because of the Lima agreement. From that point on, old Labor was dead. A centralist party emerged with young things that had been indoctrinated into the Fabian scheme of things and that is to bring everything down to the lowest denominator like in the old USSR. Doctor or train driver the only elitist class are the politicians and party hierarchy.

We have an international socialist movement for workers, but the Fabians are like the old Jesuits, the storm troopers of the movement, they indoctrinate not annihilate.

That the European Banking Cabal controls the fiscal globe is evident, you just follow the money. But with the global Fabian agenda for control you follow the administrations. The latest blow in from the northern hemisphere is Nicola Roxon’s gag legislation, where you can be convicted if someone takes offense to your views. They are pushing it in Canada, USA, and England….and now here; a global agenda instigated by bureaucrats….Fabians.

Lexi my belle, not every machination is a conspiracy, but as modern technology empowers those who have the access to it, while at the same time that we steadily lose our right to verbalize our dissent, we become powerless victims, where the people work for the state and not the state working for its people.

Not much difference between Socialism and National Socialism really.

Dear SOG,

You're beginning to scare the daylights out of me.
All this talk about "Fabians" reminds of the scare
tactics of "Reds under beds." When in actual fact
the Americans with their "propaganda" were just
as lethal (even more so perhaps, because they were
supposed to be the 'good guys').

I like Penny Wong from what I've seen of her on
television. She remains calm, sounds intelligent,
and answers questions with reason and calmness.
Something we could use in our country's political
arena. Besides I had always assumed that the ALP
was for the underdog. Who was it that gave us
Medicare, a fair wage for workers, Supperannuation,
and the list goes on. Sure they're not perfect -
what party is. But I'd sooner trust a party that
sees the bigger picture and does provide us with
at least the basics in services - than one who's
obsessed with budget surpluses and the cutting of
services, while providing all sorts of tax loopholes
for the rich.

In the interests of straight talking and fact, it is quite a coincidence that so many past Labor leaders have been Fabians.

Just taking two easy examples of senior Labor politicians with Fabian connections, Julia Gillard listed membership of the Fabian Society in her parliamentary register of interests and Penny Wong has addressed meetings of the Fabian Society. See here,

http://www.pennywong.com.au/speeches/queensland-fabian-society-queensland-public-service-club-brisbane/

Lexi>> I like Penny Wong from what I've seen of her on
television. She remains calm, sounds intelligent,
and answers questions with reason and calmness.
Something we could use in our country's political
arena<<

I like Penny Wong, gutsy chick, but at the end of the day she serves a global agenda. Lexi all parties have factions. In fact your mention of the freemasons being associated with the conservatives globally, both politically and economically I believe that is true. But the Masons are associates, not a creature of the conservative movement.

Whereas the Fabians are the socialist “A” team, not all global socialist parliamentarians are Fabians, but the ones that matter are. And when they get together they aint talking national party politics. They are the spearhead of the global agenda, in conjunction with global bureaucrats and U.N. policy makers.

The bloody U.N……..it is the vehicle for the Fabians socialist engineering agenda, and the global fiscal agenda run by their opposition the European banking Cartel. Conservatives and socialists handing down mandates from Europe that change laws in Australia. We are crazy.
TBC

>>Besides I had always assumed that the ALP was for the underdog. Who was it that gave us Medicare, a fair wage for workers, Supperannuation,and the list goes on. Sure they're not perfect -what party is. But I'd sooner trust a party that sees the bigger picture and does provide us with at least the basics in services - than one who's obsessed with budget surpluses and the cutting of services, while providing all sorts of tax loopholes for the rich.<<

Yes Lexi, they were the party of the working class. The social benefits and the infrastructure they implemented in the brief periods that they have held power over the past 80 years is almost everything decent we ever received from a government or built for ourselves. That sort of committed passion blows a gasket regularly, hence the faction infighting that split the party in two in the 1950’s.

If one thinks the lawyers that hold most of the prominent positions in the Labor party now are akin to old Labor, then one would have no idea of the passion for our brothers and sisters that old Labor carried.

Lexi you have exampled what old Labor achieved let me give you an example of new Labor.

Julia Gillard:
“Don’t give the pensioners a pay rise, they don’t vote for us anyway”

November 2012”
Gillard government dumps r$40 million ebate for chemotherapy drugs.

Lexi, I have told Belly ad nauseam that I am not a conservative, but if Labor is this, then I am not that either.

Lexi I am not happy with Abbott, and particularly Hockey, but I am not voting for these clowns again.

Onthebeach,

Have just finished reading the link you posted.
My conclusion was that Penny Wong was a very fluent speaker, but could poke holes in many of her statements.

It sounded very much like a pre-election address to me. I noticed she took the opportunity to attack both the Opposition and the Greens in her speech, as well as the Queensland premier, and portrayed her own government as one which could be trusted.
Also noted that her speech made on July 12 maintained Labour would be back in surplus this year. Is there something she should be told?
I also noted an implied critiscm of her own P.M. when she said we should not shout at those who disagree with us.

My conclusion was that she makes good speeches, but overall it wouldn't inspire me to vote for her.

Susieonline and Lexi,

If labour had an outstanding candidate, I fail to see why gender or sexual preferences should prove a deterrent.

You both like Penny Wong, and I agree she is an accomplished and calm speaker. Please read the link posted by onthebeach, and tell me if you think she is outstanding leadership material.

One doesn't have to calm or even a good speaker to qualify for leadership. They should be able to inspire us, fire us with enthusiasm, and set out clear agendas of which we approve at the polls.
Indira Ghandi, Benazir Bhutto were P.M's in a patriarchal society.
Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher, Angela Merkel are prime examples of respected leaders.
Sad fact is, we don't currently have a woman who can attain the same stature, so it's not a gender problem.

Dear SOG,

I'm not familiar with the factional workings of
either political Party. As I've stated time and
time again on this Forum - I tend to go for
policies that make sense to me and ones that I
feel will be good for me and my family and also
the country. No one's perfect and in politics
things can change overnight and often are beyond
the Party Leader's control - such as having a
minority government and being forced to make
certain compromises.

Dear worldwatcher,

Who knows what sort of leader Penny Wong would make.
I certainly don't. I merely stated that she possesses
qualities that I admire and with her background as a
lawyer - she would be capable of lateral thinking.
I can't think of anyone else in the Labor Party apart
from Bob Carr who I can see as a good alternative
Labor Leader - but I'll keep working on it and see
who else I can come up with. I agree that gender should
not be a deterrant - but unfortunately for some voters -
it is. In Penny Wong's case - some voters would also
hold the fact that no only is she a female, but being
gay, and Asian, would also be held against her.

Julia Gillard is the best one they have in the ranks at the moment. Greg Combet, while still finding his feet, will make a good future leader I think.

Julia Gillard has made mistakes there is no denying that and hopefully she is learning from them but she is better than Kevin Rudd and a better manager of programs.

Greater transparency and increased democratic participation by citizens would improve the system as well as a competent leader.

Lexi,

I think most of us decide our preferences rationally, and yes, we should think of the effect of policies put before us on our families, as well as our country.

One would have to be very small minded to judge Penny Wong on anything other than the policy she promotes.

However, it has been my experience that a clever lawyer can be very convincing, and turn any argument presented to them to their advantage. Trust me on this - I have a son who is one, and have seen it in action for years.

Instead of using so many lawyers in government, don't you think people who hold these high positions should have qualifications in the fields they represent? A mining engineer can't to the job unless they hold the relevant qualifications, neither can a ship's captain - well you get the drift. Yet we have a lawyer in charge of a whole country. I have to wonder what other qualifications she has to bring to her position.

WW Toughness, resilience, Good speaker, There's a host of qualifications JG has.
She has the measure of a man, that has been in the grip of Tea Party tactics.
AU is in a sound position, both financially and ethically.
Be a tough act to beat.

Why don't you call it as it is 579.

What you are trying to say, nicely, is that she is a nasty bitch.

Oi...here's a good one...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-11/imf-labels-howard-most-profligate-pm/4460900

Dear worldwatcher,

I think you may enjoy the following regarding "Lawyers" :

Dennis Pryor pointed out in his satirical dictionary
of Australian politics, "Political Pryorities: How to get
on top of Australian Politics," :

"Lawyers are a common form of training for future
Members of Parliament. The Liberal Party is
frequently referred to as a lawyers' party. Legal
training equipe members for unlimited nit-picking
when in Opposition and to employ their forensic
and rhetorical skills when in government. It is also
a convenient qualification to justify kicking an
embarrassing or senile member upstairs to serve on
boards, benches and quangos of a sinecure nature."

Now back to Penny Wong...

I believe that she belongs to a different parliamentary
tradition. She's not a seat-warmer, a hack, a careerist, or
at best an adventurer. I believe her when she stated in
her interview with Annabel Crabbe that she went into
Parliament to make a difference, to make changes that
she believes in. Whether she's given the chance to
do precisely that only time will tell

579,
Toughness - as demonstrated by stabbing her leader in the back?

Resilience - demonstrated by sticking to her guns re illegal migrants?

Good speaker - can't think of a lawyer who isn't, which is why they are lawyers in the first place.

Again good speaker. When faced with unpalatable truths about her decisions, she wastes a whole 15 minutes of taxpayers money labelling a man a mysogynist, rather than addressing the nations far more pressing problems.

We don't have any? My friend I hardly think RB would be concerned enough to continually lower interest rates if we are in the sound position you state we're in.

Ethically - now that one really made me smile. Ethically, Slipper, Thomson are pillars of society? JG is still spouting 'the matter has been dealt with' instead of answering forthrightly questions about her past dealings, and has mislead the public over many issues, especially the touted surplus.

Internationally, it's been absolutley nauseating to watch her fawning over Obama at every opportunity. To lecture other world leaders on how they should handle their affairs smacks of her inflating her own importance. Maybe that is why she and Swan have earned the label of country bumpkins.

No, we are not in a good financial position, and this is a direct result of financial mismanagement. We can't continue to blame outside forces for this.
Anyone who has any understanding of other countries financial woes, would say this is the time we should have a surplus as a shield. Instead we have a massive debt - a lot of which has been deliberately hidden by being conveniently left off the books.

< she has the measure of a man>. As do all women, so that isn't a quality particularly unique, especially when a woman allows her emotions to rule in place of calm, balanced dialogue.


You still haven't answered the question I asked. What other qualifications has she brought to her position, other than being a lawyer? I'll spell it out more plainly. Has she obtained a degree in any other area pertinent to running a country?

Sorry worldwatcher, but I have to pull you up on this one.

As for JG fawning over Obama - may I remind you that Mr Howard demonstrated the most nauseating toadying to that dumb-clutz George W. Bush during those years. In fact, it was my analysis that Mr Howard derived quite a bit of personal kudos from being seen as Georgie's buddy.

I'm afraid it's basically incumbent on Australia's leader to practice obsequiousness in the direction of whomever inhabits the presidential office in the US - always has been since WWII......it's just that watching Johnnie cozy up to Georgie was particularly nauseating.

Absolutely correct P , and they were the same sex, i think.
A lot of people put foot in mouth after speaking.

Poirot,

I must have missed that. I was overseas during part of the Howard era, so won't dispute you on that
George w.Bush was an idiot- a damaging one too. Can't think why Howard would cosy up to such a man.

Hasbeen,

<why don't you call it as it is>. You cracked me up with that short observation. Still laughing!

What qualities give the inside running to be Labor leader? In order of importance (some suggestions),

1. Fabian
2. Union certified
3. Follows orders (see 2 above)
4. Superficially anti-capitalism and anti-American when at home

- Although some here would put lesbian (converted is OK) and membership of Emily's List first and second.

What qualities detract when a pollie is in the running to be Labor Leader?

"...Superficially anti-capitalism and anti-American when at home."

Pull the other one, onthebeach, the two majors are pretty well neck and neck in the decadent-democratic-consumer-tradition of pork barrelese. It's difficult for some of us to imagine who we're going to vote for because Labor in many respects is neo-liberal up to its armpits.

How can you be "anti-American when at home?

You know they invented the radio telegraph some time ago - it goes all the way to America (and there's a rumour that dem dere sattylites are pretty sharp for communicatin' too) - no secrets.

What's with the lesbian reference - or is that you being scintillatingly witty?

You have no helping or hindering qualities to list?

So be it. Next please!

Wait a bit! Sorry, you did list "neo-liberal" as a deal breaker.