So Mr Swan has finally given an early Christmas present to his loyal followers. Trouble is, it's a big fat whammy.

I just can't believe how this guy, promoted as the smartest treasurer in the world, could have got this so wrong.

The signs were there, yet time and time again he buried his head in the sand, and what's more worrying, is that he provided false hope to his believers as time and time again he assured the die hards that he would achieve surplus, at any cost.

Blind Freddie could see it just couldn't happen, even after he cooked the books, yet he pressed on.

Well I just hope none of this loyalists pinned their hopes and dreams on the ambitions of this incompetent person hailed as the worlds best treasurer, as he has simply confused his ambitions with his abilities.

Please, please, please, bring on the election so we can remove this incompetent mob

Hey Rehctub - who hailed Swan as the world's best treasurer?? Sure wasn't anyone I've spoken with!

However, I would hail him as JG's best sycophant. He stands head and shoulders above the others she has. And she has quite a few too.

Would give this label to all those who helped her depose Rudd, and as a result they must now fervently defend all her policies. They are fully aware they would be fools not to.

The reason for Swan promising a surplus 'come hell or high water' would seem to be more a political ploy when Gillard's approval rating fell so low, and when there was talk of Rudd possibly regaining his former position.

This continuuing debacle makes one want to bang one's head against the wall with despair. No, better still- bang some commonsense into theirs.
Does anyone else have my level of frustration with failed policy after failed policy, and the 'let's blame Abbott' accusations they manage to yell out at every opportunity to deflect legitimate questions put to them?

Maybe Swan will next tell us - not to worry, she'll be right mate if we give it a little more time, and it isn't really my fault anyway.

Just once it would be good to hear them say "Yes, we aren't doing a good job". Instead they use personally based attack as a defence, and a means to deflect questions for which they have no good answers.

When Swan stated on television that Abbott was a thug was in reality a prime example of Swan running scared and falling back on Gillard's tactics when feeling threatened and not having a good answer to a question
Imagine their tete-a-tetes must discuss in depth what will be the next deragotory term they can use, and who to use it against.

This thread may make me a better for caster than the Mayans.
Knew it would come and chuckles too.
Those wild eyes as Abbott made his pitch.
Hockeys stern faced gaze.
Both will not wipe away the fact as one of the worlds triple A country,s, international business and financial advisers are saying it will not affect us.
BUT beware.
IF OUR TWO LEADERS AND THE TWO POSTERS HAVE IT RIGHT WE ARE IN it DEEP.
This next few weeks will prove it our dollar will fall to 20 American cents and we will wish the Mayan,s got it right.
Comment is free but much better if even remotely related to truth.

The only thing Labor can deliver is a surplus of broken promises.

Quotes from Labor as recently as a month ago:

Treasurer Wayne Swan:
"We'll be back in the black by 2012/13, as promised." (May 2011)

"The government remains absolutely committed to delivering our return to surplus as we planned." (August 2011)

"We've nailed our colours to the mast." (February 2012)

"Despite the tough global conditions, we remain determined to return the budget to surplus in 2012/13, and we will get there." (March 2012)

Prime Minister Julia Gillard:

"My commitment to a surplus in 2012/13 was a promise made and it will be honoured." (April 2011)

"We stand by the predictions, the entries in the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook. We stand by the figures and we're on track to deliver a budget surplus." (November 2012)

Labor couldn't manage a barbecue let alone an economy.

I am trying to think of a Labor policy that has actually worked. Any help Belly?

Belly>> Both will not wipe away the fact as one of the worlds triple A country,s, international business and financial advisers are saying it will not affect us<<

Do you never tire of posting ideological rubbish china?

Five years ago we had 20 BILLION in the treasury and no real net govt debt to speak of. The budget was in surplus.

Today we have 170 Billion in debt and no money left in the treasury.

Yet you quote international bankers who tell us we are doing great. Belly only one lot are doing great, the bloody bankers. Don’t be a bankers stooge…they don’t love you.

Well I can't see what everyone is excited about.
We all knew it was BS for the short memory masses.
It won't effect the next poll for the same reason.
Belly, no it won't effect the AU$ as the US is flat out printing US$
so as to generate inflation and so reduce their effective debt.
It may well increase the value of the A$.

The next government presuming that Labour is out will have no choice
but to abandon all Gillard's recent schemes.
In that list I include the Disability Insurance Scheme.
Bit tough that but this the sort of choice they will have to make.
All costs associated with global warming will be cut.
The Climate Warming Dept will be scrapped, that is an easy choice.
the Government has tied up with a rental contract the new building for
that Dept. I wonder what chance they have of sub letting it.
They will have to withdraw all benefits from illegal entrants.
No doubt a few hospitals will be put on hold.
The NBN will have to come to a grinding halt.

These unhappy decisions will happen because YOU DON'T HAVE THE MONEY !

AFTER four years of shortfalls totalling more than $173 billion - and with more red on the way - Wayne Swan and the federal government have to work harder on their economic management, the nation's top business group says.

The clear message from the Business Council of Australia is that Labor simply isn't doing well enough.

As the government came under fire for yet another broken promise, BCA chief Jennifer Westacott demanded that the government do a better job of economic management.

"It is essential that the government redouble its efforts to lay out a future path for fiscal policy that is predictable and credible," Ms Westacott said.

"This process also needs to be accompanied by policies focused on improving productivity and competitiveness and reducing business costs.

"There will be no avoiding the need for a comprehensive review of the scope and size of government in Australia."

Most of my income comes from US pensions. If the Australian dollar falls to 20 cents I will have 5 times the purchasing power. I don't wish it as it will not be good for Australia. However, if it happens I will put the money back in the Australian economy. At least in that way I can help Australia.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

This big deal to deliver a $1.1 billion surplus is an illusion yes we have this tear a surplus BUT we still owe hundreds of billions in debt from bond issue, unfunded superannuation etc.

So in reality a $1.1.billion surplus is meaningless because the debt level is still hanging over our head.

CORRECTED

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

This big deal to deliver a $1.1 billion surplus is an illusion yes we have this year a surplus BUT we still owe hundreds of billions in debt from bond issue, unfunded superannuation etc.

So in reality a $1.1.billion surplus is meaningless because the debt level is still hanging over our head.

errr, I don't think you corrected it.
Our surplus for this year, $1.1 billion, went up in smoke and left I believe an extra $3 billion deficit.

After all he is the world's greatest treasurer !

Bazz - The amount $1.1 or $3 billion is irrelevant my point is even if he was to have attained that it would still have left us oweing hundreds of billions in debt from bond issue, unfunded superannuation etc.

That is what I wanted to have confirmed.

SOG as it is I had no intention of visiting this thread again.
You however should stay,'
You are a master of not knowing or understanding, at home here.
SPIN!
TRUTH BLOKE, try just this once to put your miss placed ego in the bucket at the door and research.
If my quote is wrong, if yours even resembles truth I will leave this forum forever.
By the way, in truth many have and I MAY, debate is not helped by blind redneck rage.
This section has lost its best as more and more uniformed kill debate.
Leave no message for me here,some threads take turns that make them not worth reading.
This one is such.

Belly - Quote "SOG as it is I had no intention of visiting this thread again" So what you are saying is you have now resorted to dropping in on a thread posting your posting your biased comments and sometimes snide remarks.
next you, like a spoilt little brat will be telling people "my daddy can beat yours"

To Quote you again "Leave no message for me here,some threads take turns that make them not worth reading.
This one is such."

Then why did you stick your big mouth in here in the first place?

Phillip, Belly either wins, or he takes his bat and ball and runs, you just need to get used to that.

I note my old sparing mate 579 has not commented. He is probably rallying the troops of the easily miss led, brain washed labor supports. Good luck with that I say.

As for our dollar plunging to 20 US cents, I can only assume Belly meant that it would drop by 20 US cents.

But seriously, to think this Swan guy is on top of the treasurers Jean pool defies logic, but more so it speaks less than little of the other treasures in the world.

This man, in fact this entire government is an utter disgrace and about the only positive to come out of the past five odd years is that there is a good chance I will never have to deal with a labor government again. At least not until I am being fed though a tube, in which case I wouldn't give a toss anyway.

The man is a total failure.

I suspect he is making a little voodoo doll of me ready to stick pins in it now.

Bazz,

Keep shouting your last sentence!!
Maybe, just maybe, it will finally sink in for those who can't see the wood for the trees.

How many times must it be said for people to understand the dreadful plight we are in through allowing JG and her faithful followers to spend our money as if there will be no tomorrow.
Despite the Mayan myth, 21st December 2012 has not brought the end of the world. Nevertheless, courtesy of Julia and her crew, our Aussie world is being shattered anyway.

You said;
Despite the Mayan myth, 21st December 2012

Hold onto your hat we are 20 hours ahead of them.
It will be sometime today !

YOU DON'T HAVE THE MONEY !

Butch,
Total incompedence hardy describes these fools in government.

They spin and lie at will. 'Revenue down' is a lie as well. Revenue is up on last year, it is their spending that is the problem.

Like drunken sailors they throw money away.

And lie. Abanese, only a few days ago, was spruking a surplus and he is one 'in the know'.

Question: Can we survive another 12 months? Already J P Morgan has the predicted deficit at $14 Billion.

I had hoped that aiming for a surplus would curb their spending but now the brakes are off. Just watch the spending from now on and the vote buying.

I feel sorry for the Libs being saddled with this hugh mess.

Yes Banjo, it is likely the libs will win the next election, and govern in their own right, as the greens and so called independents will also cop a hammering, and a well deserved one at that.

So the lins will get in and go about the same old task as last time, stabilizing things and repaying the legacy that is labor's debt.

Only this time they won't be able to see the top of the mountain of debt, let alone get to it in a reasonable time frame.

At the end of the day, it just a pity that if and when they do balance the books (for real), enough voters will decide it's time for a change, which is really what happened in 07.

Also, for the record, I'm not opposed to not achieving surplus, it's just the lies and miss leading spin this fool of a man has thrown out there, and there is just a chance that confidence will head south, and that could be a very bad outcome, because many in business today are questioning their logic.

The cycle of political office.

1) labor gets into office by promising the people everything money wise & welfare wise, but but end up putting the country in DEBT.

2) The Liberals get into office promising to fix the debt (repay) and end up taxing or cutting services to do it.

Each in turn gets kicked out because of the debt in labors case and the massive cut backs in the liberal case.

NOTE. THIS CYCLE IS PRE - RUDD & JULIAR who wasted on welfare for lifers, foreign aid to countries that would never and have never helped us or who downright hate us. They wasted BILLIONS on ridiculous schemes that were overpriced or a con.
They tried to tax there way out with a mining tax that raised ZERO dollars but probably has employed lots of high salary bureaucrats to collect the massive ZERO dollars.

What a lot of unfounded frog // you lot are on about. It was business that convinced the treasurer to not push for a surplus.
As for the next election, i would not be that brave to predict an outcome, with the greens running at 11 % we may end up with a hung parliament.
Abbott and the libs are in trouble, over matters that will concern the public greatly. Using the judicial system to further their own agenda.
With Thomson being found guilty of nothing so far, the case is far from being conclusive.
It is all a lib set up to force an election.

Rechtub!you are aware we differ.
Not as much as I do with the apparent school kids who have joined of late.
UNDERSTANDING! not important in threads such as this.
Mathematics, voters, and facts however play a VITAL role in elections.
FYI, Australia has a half senate election not total this time.
Greens, as unhappy that makes me, can not see more than one senate seat fall.
NOW if you understand that.
You are half way to knowing.
WHY ABBOTT HAS SAID HE WILL WORK TOWARD A DOUBLE DISSOLUTION.
ASAP after conservatives gain office.
See you in another thread.

579,

Methinks an early election would not be in the Liberal's interest. It would give Rudd an opportunity to stand again. While he was the one who started the process of allowing the boats, he presented good spin to the people, with a smile on his little cherub face, Despite poor policies, that seems to be what sways their vote. Facts are completely ignored.

579; for gord sake don't use business as an excuse.
I am certain many business people would have advised him to scrub
the surplus. All they did was give him an excuse to make the lame
excuses. It was a bag of worms even when it was declared and that was
obvious by the moving of expenses to earlier and later years.

If you really want to make reasonable argument then please use better
argument or not comment at all.
Honestly, it does make you look like an automatic mouthpiece, that gets
triggered off by the least adverse comment.

I go on what i read, if that doesn't suite make one up yourself.
There is 6 months before a budget is due, unless you are a fortune teller who knows what the position will be in six months. Forecasts are just that, and subject to change, month by month.
It all depends on incoming receipts.
A boost to AU would be to nationalize iron ore mining. Australia is being raped by a handful of billionaires. Their only interest is taking the easy pickings, and leaving the real mining for us Australians.

belly,
You are right when saying understanding not important! It certainly is not to this government. They simply do not understand economices and how to manage money. They have no concept of project management. They lie and cheat. For the last 5 years everything has been on deception. They cannot manage the truth at all. To deceive is their stock in trade.

Can't think of one project that has been successful. Now I hear that because of the low take up rate of the NBN they will legislate to force people to have it by ripping the copper cable out and it will cost homeowners heaps to then get onto the NBN for both internet, phone and TV. What a balls up this crowd has made of everthing.

Big dreams and big failures. How they have lead the disabled on with the promise of the NDIS and they have no idea how much it would cost or how it can be paid for. I fear most disabled people will be seriously let down and probably not qualify. Labor has no shame.

On more than 200 occasions they promised a surplus. "No if, no buts" Gillard said "If you can't manage the economy , you cannot manage the country" So where is the resignation?

579 said;
unless you are a fortune teller who knows what the position will be in six months.

But but but, Wayne Swan & Julia Gillard said they did know, right up
to last week they maintained the stance.
Despite everyone advising it was silly to gamble on it.

I am not worried about that so much, but they have the same attitude
to Australia's fuel supplies, despite Martin Ferguson advising them differently.
They are bl%^&dy dangerous people !
The illegals in Java are in raptures about Julia giving them money and houses !

Banjo, I don't think they will be able to force you to take it.
You might have to put red underpants on your head but they could run
it in but if you did not connect that would be it.
The ACCC, as weak as it is could stop it as after all it is a company.

Just been looking on a web site of ships for sale.
Just one ship, $430,000 233 ft,if the people smugglers charged each
passenger $15,000 they only need 28 passengers to break even.
A ship like that could perhaps carry up to 1000 passengers.
Just on $14,570,000 profit !
Why aren't they doing it ? Maybe they are, there are plenty of small
inlets around the coast and a fleet of tourist buses would not be noticed.
They must be looking into it, it is just a normal business plan.
The illegals are all excited about the gift of money and houses.
Photos and quotes in 3rd December Daily Telegraph.
Quote:
This good news for us, if we stay here and apply for status we might
not be allowed into Australia, but if we come on boat we get the money and house, Adres said.

It may not be quite true but they believe it is true and that is what matters.

Bazz,

That boat is a steal for the price. I'd bet the people smugglers have already calculated how many people they could cram on board, and how many trips they could make in 12 days. Two maybe? 3 days to get here, and 3 to get back for the next lot.

Another alternative I can think of is that the Labour government buy it, then gift it to the Indonesian government who can then hand it over to the smugglers.
So, I sound a tad sarcastic and cynical? Quite possibly! Disgusted? Most definitely!

579,
You appear to be an eternal optimist regarding the budget.

As for nationalising mining,
a: how quickly do you think this government would find a way to wantonly spend the revenue mining generates. Government spends your - yes- your money and mine freely because they don't have to account for their actions - YET.
b: since whenever has nationalisation given better productivity than private enterprise.
c: it has been the mining sector which has been the largest contributor to keeping this economy afloat
d: the mineworkers have well paid jobs, and the companies make good profits. Government officials have extremely well paid jobs and have put us in debt
You defend incompetence, and don't see that we need the 'billionaires' the revenue they create and the wages they pay.

leaving the real mining for us Australians.
579,
Somehow I can't believe your soft little hands could handle more that two minutes on a wheelbarrow.
And yes, this Outfit of a Government does seem to have an agenda to destroy us all.

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that this promise was never going to happen. They didn't make the promise because they thought it was a good idea. They made it because it deflected criticism of their spending. Whenever people complained of the level of spending/debt they were able to counter that they were going into surplus and therefore the debt would be paid off. Meanwhile the court eunuchs in the press gallery pretended not to notice that it was all smoke and mirrors.

I'd doubt that even Gillard/Swan really believed they'd deliver a surplus - they might be spectacularly incompetent but they're not THAT stupid. I'm guessing the plan was to continue to pretend that they were on-track and then go to an election in the first half of 2013. Then, if by some chance they were re-elected, they'd suddenly announce that they were as surprised as anyone else that the surplus had evaporated. And the court eunuchs in the press gallery would go along for the ride.

The problem is the polls. They now know they can't go in early '13 so they'll still be in power when the final 12/13 budget numbers come out. So they had to come clean now rather that a month or two out from an election.

As usual with these characters, its all about power. The good of the nation runs a distant last in their concerns

Banjo because I hold you and Bazz as poster who I respect I will answer you.
To not even KNOW the election in the SENATE IS NOT A FULL ONE.
TO NOT UNDERSTAND ZERO chance exists for Liberal National party to win control of the senate.
Surely should bring in to question some commentators right to mouth silly things.
I as you know, think a government elected in the lower house should not have to confront such as the thankfully dieing Greens.
Abolish the senate,both majors should preference the other or better still one vote one value.
Banjo,I do respect you, even like you, but you look like you are standing on your head stark naked and full of cheap beer if you think this government is as bad as you charge it.
Tell me two years in to your government I am wrong.
I am not coming back, very close and probably will leave forever.
The child like invasion of red necks has made the place unpleasant.
And made truth in one in every two new threads unneeded and unwanted, this thread HIGHLIGHTS THAT.
Let me be honest! its author in hundreds of threads gets close to truth only by accident!

worldwatcher - Quote "gift it to the Indonesian government who can then hand it over to the smugglers." WRONG they would sell it to the smugglers because The police etc have to be getting paid of.

It would be impossible to congregate 30 - 120 foreigners of the nationalities we get in one place without the police knowing about it.
They would stick out like a sore thumb.

THEY KNOW what is happening.

Belly - you wrote Quote "Leave no message for me here,some threads take turns that make them not worth reading.
This one is such."

I knew you would be back you just can't help yourself, curiosity will keep you coming back.

Your words are lies just like those of the labor politicians.

No Philip the cops would probably put a per head tax on each boat load.
Mhaze said;
they're not THAT stupid.
Are you really sure about that ?
What have they done to ensure fuel supplies for the country ?
The refineries around the country are closing and they do not even see
the message in that. There is no point in keeping them open, but they
don't get its message.
All they can say is that there is no problem foreseen over the next several decades !
Their departments do a study on our fuel supply and
then suppress it. It is now a non-report. Left a hole in the list of
reports. Fortunately it escaped.

Philip S,

My apologies - I quite rightly stand corrected. Completely forgot that it was found that the police are also complicit. How could they not be aware of large numbers sunddenly appearing in small villages. In such small communities. Strangers stand out like sore thumbs, even if they are few in number, and especially if they can't speak the local language.
Thank you for drawing attention to my oversight.

Belly,
The fact is that which ever party gains the most seats in the Lower House gains government.

This is the worst government in my living memory and I intend to do all i can to be rid of the present incompedents. The reality is that if they are ousted it will be the Libs that replace them.

The senate is not so critical as many governments have operated with a hostile Senate. How much the Senate changes only time will tell. The critical thing is to take treasury away from the current lot. It is almost unbelievable the mess we are now in, all because of the lies, stupidity and deceit of the current Labor party.

It is not just Gillard, but the whole stinking lot of them. None of them are worthy of getting a feed of chook pellets IMHO.

Worldwatcher, it gets worse. One report I read.
The police even organised and escorted a bus load to the coast to meet
the boat. They make all the right noises, tut, tut etc but it would
not surprise me to find that the police minister had instructed them to
"provide assistance".

Will Abbott remain leader of the noalition. Abbott, Pyne, and Bishop have all been in the no about the Slipper malfunction. Hochey's involvement is dodgy. Who would be left to lead and make up a front bench. The other Bishop, Turnbull.
The Thomson accusations have suffered a hit. No paperwork or anyone come forward to say Thomson was ever at a brothel. It has the makings of a set up, just like Slipper.

Oh really ?
They would no doubt have seen a political opportunity in Slipper's slipup.
I am sure they knew varying amounts of what was going on, and I would
have been very surprised if they knew nothing.
It seems Brough gave advice to engage a solicitor. So what ?

I am sure they were happy for it to go to court.
It seems the judge decided that if there was court precess available
there would have been no complaint, ie the court was to be a tool for
something different.
However there does seem to have been an offence committed, else why did
the govt settle out of court for $50,000 ?

However there does seem to have been an offence committed, else why did
the govt settle out of court for $50,000 ?
Bazz,
For the simple reason that the whole of the Labor machine & it's brainless wonders supporters are devoid of integrity. In fact it's an outfit that is unfit.

The 50g was to clear the govt, so the slipper case could be heard.
You will probably find there will be action taken against the lawyer involved and the liberal's for the set up.
The court was a tool, that in it self is an offense.
Our judicial system is not there for political agendas.
Slipper lost a lucrative job over it, so i expect there will be repercussions, against the lawyer involved, knowingly pushing false claims.

Slipper lost a lucrative job over it,
579,
Yeah ? Well, at least he's got a bank account to keep him going. What about those workers who lost their jobs with no such bank account backing them all due to Labor.

579 said;
Slipper lost a lucrative job over it, so i expect there will be
repercussions, against the lawyer involved, knowingly pushing false
claims.

False claims, the judge did not say that, he didn't even hear any evidence.
So no one can say they are false claims. The govt obviously thought
they would lose. The govt auditor would not be happy if they paid up
without a very good reason.

BTW, Teflon was invented in 1938. It was used in various parts of the
Manhattan Project and went into public production in 1945.
So its use as an insulator of wires would probably have been during the war.
Thinking about it there was a lot of radio war disposal equipment
that had a white fabric covering that had an additional coating over
it that was real cow to strip.
That might have been Teflon.

Slipper lost his job because of the obscene and sexist texts, (that Julia Gillard supported) and so will have no claim against the lawyers.

Whine swan and Juliar are laughing stocks. Only a week ago they were assuring everyone that we would be in surplus. Now we are looking at an up to $15bn deficit.

579, we, small business owners are actually fortune tellers, or at least we try to be, because unlike those who have their jobs provided for them, we often place our house, our investments, even our relationships and families at risk each day we walk out the door and go to work.

One advantage of taking these risks, is that we can see into the future, to some degree and base many of our descisions on what we think may happen, unlike the government who base their descisions on what happened a month or quarter ago.

We work on what may happen, they work on what has happened, and it is this way of thinking that causes most of the failures they make.

While many in business may tighten spending after a strong year, governments usually increase spending,simp,y because last austere numbers look good, and given labor's inability to implement almost anything, their waste goes hand in hand with their increased spending.

Now as if that's not bad enough, they also take the likes of yourself along for a ride, only to drop their promises at a time when they feel many won't care because of Christmas and all.

I also remind you that they have taken out an IOU from big business, by way of advancing tax payments.

So they borrowed from next year and still failed.

So I invite you to pull your head out of your #%^# and take a good hard look around, because if enough busimesses opt out of the crap labor have laid upon them, there will be he'll to pay as governments arnt employing at the moment.

One local restaurant I know has paid about $2K in power per month for the past year.

His latest bill is $5 grand. 150% increase. How does he pass that on I ask?

From 2G to 5G has to do with what. That sounds like an Abbott bill.
Fortune tellers are frauds, no-one can see the future.
No one is employing, just as well don't you think, we would have to get some from another country. We are at capacity.
Employers don't advertise jobs unless there is a position. Check out employment vacancies.
Food is the safest type of business, as people will continue to eat. That is future telling. It has nothing to do with fortune.
Christmas spending up 4% on last year. Two more Quarters before the end of budget, so be careful of predictions, that may not materialize. Swan said it was unlikely there would be a surplus, that means there will not be further cuts, and cause unemployment.

I must have missed something here, what is the 2G to 5g about ?
The phone system ?

Fortune Telling;
Well thats where Wayne probably stuck Julia out on a limb when he
guaranteed that there would be a surplus, even if they did have to
move charges early & later years. I doubt she will ever forgive him that.
I was surprised at the time he did not put any qualifiers into it.
Especially when all the experts were making mumbling sounds about it.
Some were actually saying "Won't Happen !".
I suspect he actually believes he is the worlds greatest.

That is what makes him and the government so dangerous.

Just after I sent that last post I realised something;
Just a matter of few days, I think less than a week Julia Gillard was
saying that the surplus was certain, before Wayne Swan announced the
negative surplus or in real words a deficit.
He must have known he was in trouble at the time and probably had
Treasury scambling for numbers to avoid having to admit failure.
Yet he kept the PM in the dark, or alternatively she was complicit.
If complicit she was lying again.

Do you realise under the new laws the govt is to bring in in 2013 the
PM would be able to drag me into court because she was offended by me
saying she was lying ?

The most dangerous person here is Abbott, he wants govt; but doesn't want to say what sort of govt;.
If you can put your trust in that situation, go for it.
A request has been lodged with the fed police, to look into the conduct of the lib and nat, party over the Slipper case. Nice way to start an election year. Half way through the year it probably be Thomson's turn.
That is better than dragging it around parliament, wasting time.
The budget has two terms to run, not a done deal yet. The last quarters figures were down, and prompted Swan to hedge his bets.
Bazz did you look up Telstra's rim service, they are doing that because it is cheaper. Not so good for the locals.

At capacity you say 579.

Ok, then can you explain a few points that I just don't get, assuming you are right.

1. If we are at capacity, that also means we are collecting tax from more PAYG payers than ever and, it also means that source of revenue is pretty much, at capacity.

2. If we are at capacity, why then are we borrowing so much?

3. If we are at capacity, which pretty much means anyone wanting a job, has one, why then are most people doing it tough?

4. If we are at capacity, how are we going to fund labor's out of control border fiasco?

And lastly, if we are at capacity, yet we can't collect enough taxes to provide for the basic services, how then are we going to fund these in the future? Not to mention Julias wish list items, such as her education dream and NDIS?

Of cause I will understand if you either can't reply, or chose not to, as you have placed yourself between a rock and a hard place.

Rehctub,

Totally agree with you. Small business is doing it really hard. In fact so hard many have closed down. Even 100 year old larger companies have realised this fact, and also closed.

579,
Have you ever got it wrong!
Employers are not employing because their trading figures are so way down, not because we are at employment capacity.
As for our trading figures being up this Christmas, have you given some thought that since the introduction of the disastrous carbon tax prices have increased, therefore trading figures have too. Does this mean business is doing better. Ask business owners if they are worse off now than they were before Labour started slugging them wherever they could squeeze a bit more out of them.
Employees have proved they are incapable of saving for their own futures, so employers by law have to pay the - [is it 9% still] for them.
Quite frankly, it is no wonder that some retailers and companies have decided to just give up, and close down completely.
Here is a true story from a small retailer friend of mine. He advertised a vacancy, and when the 18 year old who had applied was told how much pay the man was offering, he was very offended. Said he could do better staying on the dole and working for cash when he needed extra money.
The older generation had work ethics instilled from a young age, and on the whole have proved to be more diligent workers for my friend, and happy to accept a reasonable wage. They have learned their experience warrants their income being what it is. Young people expect an equal wage with no experience under their belts.

Is Wayne Swan or Julia Gillard 579 ?

Employment are showing good figures, don't mix QLD with the rest of the country. Revenue was down in the last quarter, it was not stated where the revenue was down from, it could have been export, or retail. The christmas figures say there was a rise of 4% on last year. To late for the last quarters figures.
There will always be people that bludge on the system, that's why employment is said to be full at 5%, so much for newmans 4%. The rest of the country is carrying the can for QLD.
As for someone being offended by the wages offered it was either illegal, or the dole is paying too much.

there was a rise of 4% on last year.
579,
That rise is from the spending by the 3000 illegals who started buying when their Centerlink payments got rolling.

Seriously though, the unemployment figures are doctored. Where I live unemployment is close to 95 % amongst the locals whilst Government Departments have closer to 150 % employment & rising.

Is Humpty or Dumty Wayne Swan, who knows.
I don't think 579 believes what he says, but Wayne Swan believes
everything he says is true, after all he is the world's greatest treasurer.
Julia would like to be the world's greatest PM but she can hardly come
out and say it herself.

Anyway I thought I suggested who, or rather what 579 was a couple of weeks ago.
579 is a rather clever device than monitors channels such as this and
generates replies consistent with government policy.
Trouble is, it has trouble sorting policy from reality.
Never mind practice makes perfect.

Bazz,
Yep, I'd agree with that, 579 definitely sounds like an it.

individual - here are some facts why Australia is in trouble.

1) 2011-12 the federal public service has more than 168,580 employees.
There are lots more than that but the figure are hidden for example all the job agencies are mostly funded by taxpayers, not sure if centerlink are in those figure.

Divide that by 20 million Australians = 1 at least federal public servant for every 118 people

Add to that all the state public servants.
Add to that all the local Government Public servants.

That is a recipe for disaster

Add to that all the contracted workers paid for by the taxpayers.
The service providers, guards and the charities that at TAXPAYER expense kook after the welfare for lifers.

Philip S,
In my area there simply aren't any jobs yet CEA has an office here with 12 employment officers who regularly go on jaunts to communities to "train & counsel" people for jobs which will never exist.
Something has to give & give soon. I only pray it's not the sanity of the good people.
speaking with a young Police officer recently i was told they can't even arrest anyone anymore, they have to politely ask those mongrels if they had any objection to accompany them to the station. If the mongrel declines the officers just have to leave in case someone calls harassment.
Official incompetence rapidly approaches breaking point for this country. We must rid ourselves of Labor Governments & work on opening the eyes of their supporters before it is too late.

Philip, I can't see 1 in 118 being excessive when you realise it
includes Federal Police, Customs, AQIS, airports, aviation, marine etc.
There are organisations like CSIRO, Minerals, Medicare etc.
There are real functioning people that have to be there.

We need to be careful we do not get into American think where
everything the government does is sinister and only business is good.
There are a lot of stark raving people running around the fringes of
US politics. Just watch how some of them perform over their medicare
scheme.
They think it is Joe Stalin's scheme to enslave the American people.
It is that groupthink we have to avoid.

Public servants = services. Unless you are Newman , or the libs, which of course see public service as a waste and put thousands out of work.
The creation of an unemployment pool, is the libs way it stabilizes wages, and is in the business agenda.
It all comes down to which way of life you want to pursue.
Newman is making inroads into the welfare of the QLD people, good for some but if you are an employee not so good. Belchin Joe was a tyrant, and newman is of the same mould.
The carbon tax is on the top 500 polluters, it's hard to blame 10% on 50% rises.
Butch had a bill the other day it went from 2000 to 5000, carbon tax of course. The one that was going to make the sky fall in. the one you don't hear about any more.
The libs have their worries at the moment, it could prove fatal.

Public servants = services.
579,
I'm convinced now that you are Wayne Swan. No-one else is capable of such extreme idiotic statements.

570,

Some public servants provide services, many simply push paper around. The public service has increased by 6% under labor for no more services, lower educational results and greater debt.

I note 579 that you didn't reply to my simple questions, questions that were in direct reply to your notion that our employment numbers are at capacity.

No surprise there I might add.

So further to my questions, you say employment is at capacity, which means so too is our PAYG collation at capacity, as the two go hand in hand.

So the only way for labor to collect more taxes, which is A MUST is to further tax big business.

But hang on, they (BB) have already been hit with either the carbon tax, mining tax, or in some cases, perhaps both.

So what's your solution then, tax them even more!

Do we what to drive them away for good?

Now on the other hand, with employment being at capacity, your words, this just proves labor are poor economic managers because, unemployment, although fudged, has been around the 5% mark for a couple of years now, meaning that labor, knowing full well they had maximum taxes from employees coming in, still went about spending like drunken sailors.

Now there is a work for that type of practice in the real world (business), and that's called BANKRUPSY!

Butch read my last post to you. Swan said tax receipts were down for the last quarter, if that trend continues there will not be a surplus.
Tax receipts being down could be in export figures.
We do have low unemployment, but we are subject to commodity pricing, which won't necessarily effect employment.
Grain will be stripped and sold at market price, weather it be a good price or a bad price. This will effect tax receipts.
On one hand you talk about basic services, and then you say spending like drunken sailors. There again you have a confusion between state and federal funding. Not all downturn in services can be attributed to federal govt;. Most services are % funded with states. So if the state pulls it's share of funding the % of federal funding will drop also.
So be careful who you blame for funding cuts, the first cut will come from the state, and federal cut will be % proportionate.

579>> Butch read my last post to you. Swan said tax receipts were down for the last quarter, if that trend continues there will not be a surplus.<<

Surprise, surprise, surprise

579>> Tax receipts being down could be in export figures.<<

Well it is certainly not from diminishing bank profits.

579>> We do have low unemployment, but we are subject to commodity pricing, which won't necessarily effect employment.<<

So pleased we have you to forecast for us…we sell less coal and minerals…and the number of jobs stays the same…that makes sense.

579>>Grain will be stripped and sold at market price, weather it be a good price or a bad price. This will effect tax receipts.<<

Guess it would, but that is no insight, it is more the obvious.

579>>On one hand you talk about basic services, and then you say spending like drunken sailors. There again you have a confusion between state and federal funding. Not all downturn in services can be attributed to federal govt;. Most services are % funded with states <<

Are you talking about the states that had consecutive terms of Labor governments that corrupted and mismanaged their state’s coffers and left huge debts to their political rivals?

579>>So be careful who you blame for funding cuts, the first cut will come from the state, and federal cut will be % proportionate<<

All cuts courtesy of Labors inability to manage finances. State or Fed finances, they take care of their own needs …Take Obeid, Rosenthal and even Gillard as fine examples of slight handing others money.

4 of the 6 you have proven correct. the other 2 are still waiting for your answers.
Where the lib state cuts come from is their difference in values to the community.
The libs see all expenditure on services as a deficit.
Their agenda is to give tax breaks to the Gina's of this nation.
Why else do you think that most lib govt; are short-lived.
They take and take from the community, with no remorse. The public will not put up with that.
Our govt; is expected to supply services, not give public money to superrich people or companies.
Abbott wants to give upercrust welfare.
Those sorts of policies fail in a very short time.
Newman in QLD is how not to survive political assasination

Bazz - My point is 1 for every 118 people then you add the state Government and local Government employees to that.

Also a lot of federal government employees are hidden under different organizations but the taxpayer pays for everything for them.

Garbage collectors, street sweepers, and everybody that does something for you, is a dead loss, right o.

Garbage collectors, street sweepers, and everybody that does something for you, is a dead loss, right o.
579,
Are you the perfect oxygen thief or are you just winding us up ? We're talking about the Public Service bureaucrats not decent, important people like the above mentioned.
Anyone that does something to provide a service is a useful citizen. I suppose one could possibly get 2 or 3 useful public servants out of every hundred but I haven't personally seen that yet.
The only reason why we have so many pointless public servants is to bolster the election chances of the ALP, nothing else.

Phillip, a lot of state govt employees are in public transport and
the like.
Still the bureaucracies are ever expanding.

With the drying up of government revinue the coming cutbacks will be
something like nobodies nightmare. We have zero growth now once you
discount the falling mining income. The whole world is struggling to
increase growth, any growth would be appreciated.
China has been managing to get some growth simply because western
countries have surrended some energy flows to China and India.

However there is a limit to how much we will be able to reduce our demand.
So far we have surrended about 5 million barrels a day.

579,

Private companies almost always provide services at a far lower cost than public servants. Reducing the public service and contracting out services generally provides better and cheaper services.

Bazz,

The entire mob, from the police minister down, will really see their incomes dry up when a saner government hopefully wins our next election.

The last boat to slip through will probably be filled with their police and the smuggler organisers too, because they will want a taste of our good life here as well.

Willing to bet they know our policies at least as well as ourselves, and are very aware of how many freebies are showered on illegals.

Wouldn't surprise me to hear they already own luxury properties here
anyway.
We also probably have their kids in our schools too, as that is another way in for them - a method already in use by others wishing to eventually relocate here.

Individual,

I have read that 69% of Queensland public workers have accepted voluntary redundancy payouts, with most of the remainder still considering it, and just a handful asking to be redeployed.

So it would appear Campbell Newman realised that the first place to trim expenditure was within the public service. The fact that so many took voluntary redundancy could lead one to suspect they were unnessary in the first place.

He has applied good business practice by reducing staff, and encouraging the remaining ones to perform well by offering them a pay rise. It's called sorting the chaff from the wheat.

With his State being in dire financial trouble he's taken steps to help it back up, and in so doing has lost his popularity. Go figure!

We could do with a leaner and more efficient administrative public service throughout the rest of the nation too

WW I have no doubt that should the libs get in, they will take an axe to public spending, including public servants.

The real issue is whether the labor die hards will be able to see past next week, and see that it is what is required if we are to prosper, and remember, China is still buying coal, but that's tipped to change within two years.

I some how doubt they (the die hards) will see that, esspecially considering the support they are still offering this incompitent, wasteful government.

They have literally brought us to our knees, finically, yet they (the die hards) still see no reason to vote labor out.

What are they waiting for, total invasion and finacial ruin!

Pretty much says it all.

Take an axe to public spending including public service.
You don't see a link between the two.
What services would you like to see discontinued. Or do you mean limiting services. Maybe a bus once a day instead of 10 times a day.
Some say the hands on public service people are ok, it's the ones you don't see are the ones that need culling.
So what are these people that you don't see doing. Filling empty seats, shuffling paper, or weighting for something to happen.
The questions that need answers is what level of services do you expect from out govt's. \
The states are saying now the flow of federal money has dried up. Do you want the flow to resume, or not.
The federal govt; has stopped all that public spending.
It's time for the states to reconsider their spending priorities.
In vic there was a train carriage on permanent order every month, until the libs got in, and cancelled the order, now they are training people again to make train carriages. Short term gains for longterm pains.

579,

Public provision of services is notoriously inefficient. A recent study showed that privately run hospitals perform surgeries for about 30% less than public ones. Privatising services could provide better services for less taxpayer money.

Secondly there is a lot of labor monuments to bureaucracy that contribute bugger all, such as the department of climate change. The entire dept can be axed without affecting anyone.

I have no problem with private hospitals or privatization of any sort.
since our power network was sold off, we make our own decisions who we buy power from.
I do not think water should be privatized.
Private busses and trains, it's all there.
Those are state issues.
That only works where the population base is to support private enterprise.
V line circumnavigates the entire state here, Probably would not work in states where there is nothing but iron ore.
So privatization can be limited. Or someone is going to miss out.

QLD public servants taking pay outs no surprise there, the downside is you may lose more than you bargain for.
Why not privatize departments of public servants, seeing private costs less. Still under the authority of ministers.
C Newman is a one man band, just like you know who. Tony keeps in touch, probably picking up a few tips.
Abbott wants to spend 4 billion on infrastructure, but there is not any plans done yet. It'l be several years away.
Interesting times ahead i reckon, Power usage is continuing to fall, they may have to drop the price to encourage some more power to be used. At the rate solar is going in i don't think the decline is going to stop any time soon. They have opened a can of lively worms now.
Power generation could even end up back in public hands again.