So the polls say we sit at 50/50 labor/libs.

So I challenge you, go to any pub, club, shopping centre, footy game, etc, and try to find more than a handful of people who think A. Julia and labor are doing a good job and B, that they are worthy of another term.

Good luck!

rehctub,they are bribing their way back via tax fiddling.The electorate at large are very ignorant.I see no immediate solutions.

rechtub, if what you say is true, then what does that say about Tony Abbott?

If the election will be won or lost on Julia, that puts her in the drivers seat doesn't it?

Rehctub, what about the other side of the coin?

How do you reckon your pub-crawling mates would answer these questions?:

Would Abbott do a good job?

Would he be better than Gillard?

And I reckon at least half of your average pot-bellied yobbos would answer:

No

and

No!

Hey, it’s about 50/50, with Labor on the ascendency. So what does that tell you?

It tells you that the yobs are thinking twice about Abbott.

Rechtub, may I be honest Mate?
You, if you look, know I do not think A Gillard lead Labor can win.
I too, in all honesty think you are not fully aware of the subject of politics.
Currently polls show, and disliking them is a shallow reason for claiming they are just not right,a fall in Abbott,s likability.
Clutching at the straw it is because Labor women, are running a sexist war, against a man charged with sexism for decades?
Shallow untrue and at the same time funny.
Facts will not line up in the wrong column to suit our biases.Abbott is EXTREMELY unlikely to lead your party to the election.
Turnbull should, but such is the state of Liberalism, it could be Pyne, best serve the parliament with broom and bucket.
Hockey best serve by leaving.
July Bishop by opening a hair saloon in say Hobart.
Rest, breath deeply, you will , unless Labor gets a leader, win hands down.
Not my wish, but in the end truth wins, even against our country,s worst ever leader of the opposition Tony NO Abbott.

When you look at the stunts Abbott has pulled it is not surprising.
He only speaks to blunder. A negative approach. I think he has worn out his attack.
He was designed to have an election as soon as possible after the last election, and now he is stumped as to what to do or say.
The lib front bench is not very impressive, and hockey is a mixed bag.
We continue to have growth, and low unemployment, while a fair chunk of the world is in depression.
At the moment we have a hung parliament in the making, the race to the polls will be very interesting.

Belly, politically it would be dangerous for the coalitiin to change leaders. It would be easy for Labor to manufacture an excuse to go to the polls before a new leader was settled in and then play the disarray, inexperience card for all it was worth.

Turnbull faces the massive disadvantage that most of those calling for him to be leader are clearly left leaning in their orientation and unlikely to vote Liberal anyway. Abbott is not well liked nor trusted but in practical political terms it seems unlikely that it would be wise to replace him now.

R0bert

Ludwig>> Hey, it’s about 50/50, with Labor on the ascendency. So what does that tell you?<<

I'll tell you what it tells me Luddy, we need a first past the post ballot system.

579>> The lib front bench is not very impressive, and hockey is a mixed bag.<<

Seems that I can never find agreement with you 579. When you are defending Labor we clash and in describing Hockey as a mixed bag, we will again clash.

Hockey is no mixed bag, he is a zero, a dunderhead and dud whose mouth is obviously not connected to a hard drive. There is nothing redeeming regarding Hockeys tenure as a polly and he has achieved nothing except the taking up of space.

<< …we need a first past the post ballot system. >>

Soggy…. Why?

Pray tell, what’s the significance of this?

Of course what we really need is the optional preferential system, rather than the despicable antidemocratic oxymoronical compulsory preferential system!

So again I challenge you, not to bag me, as it's water off a ducks back, but seriously, go out there, go to your local church, crochet game, brige party, what ever it is you do and ask the question.

As for Abbott, hey, I'm no fan, in fact, I suggested a year or more back that the best thing he could do was shut up amd let Julia go about digging her hole.

But, in reality, the question must be, not whether the libs deserve a chance, but rather, whether labor have earned the right for another term.

Very few elections are won, and this one will be no exception.

Butch maybe you should answer that question, does lib deserve a chance or does labor deserve another term.
Hockey is a nothing, and taking up space.
How could anyone vote for libs with Abbott at the helm, we would be sunk in no time.
Julia is not perfect, but she is strong, and knows how to put Abbott in his place. How will Abbott go debating the economy. Hardly the right subject for him.
Not the right substance for a PM. Reckless and dangerous.

You really know your stuff don't you 579?

In Gillard we have a known shonky lawyer, with a track record of financial stuff ups.

Then you say," How will Abbott go debating the economy. Hardly the right subject for him". Interestingly Abbott is a qualified economist.

That is about the only thing I can find not to like about him.

Ludwig, unknown to the person that bought it up first past the post, until Gillard came along would put labor in government much more often.
Such a system would negate not just greens votes but in some cases, Nationals as Liberals out polled them.
I support no preferences so one vote one value or first past the post.
Rechtub takes correction as insult but in truth the chooks should settle down.
Labor is not going to win, unless, mounting internal disquiet in the Liberals, with Abbott is stalled.
Abbott is the best thing Labor has going for them.
RObert, internal moves, not Labor voters are likly to place Turnbull in the chair.

*That is about the only thing I can find not to like about him.*

In that case Hasbeen, you must be happy that Abbott is also a
trained seminarian, who could tell you that you are an evil sinner
who should repent :)

Hasbeen. Abbott was described as a political illiterate. Howard did not like Abbott at the front.
He has not spoken one word about economics, he is not interested in the welfare of AU.
Turnbull would be far better as leader. Abbott would then leave politics.
He was desperate to win over the independents etc, offering a billion $ hospital for Hobart.
At least Gillard talk about moves in caucus, Abbott is likely to say anything at any time, traits of a dictator.

<< But, in reality, the question must be, not whether the libs deserve a chance, but rather, whether labor have earned the right for another term. >>

Rehctub, surely it has got to be all about policies and the ability to actually achieve what they say they will. Good policies and credibility – that’s what counts.

And didn’t old Turnbull blow it for the Libs yesterday:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/in-depth/people-mean-growth-says-malcolm-turnbull/story-fng387xs-1226509489548

I thought he was actually one of the most promising of our leading pollies. But he’s completely cooked his goose as far as I’m concerned.

The majority of Australian voters desire a sustainable Australia and a much lower immigration rate. So this is another substantial boost for Labor, I’d reckon. Thanks Malcolm.

Hey, THIS is the sort of stuff that really matters - baseline philosophies and associated policies.

Luddy, there is some merit in your preferences comment.

I believe that if extra numbers are needed to form a government because neither party has the numbers we should go back to the polls. Alliances with independents to form a government should be restricted.
The independents may vote with whom they wish when the parliament is established but their union with either major party to form a government is a betrayal of the electorate who voted against both major parties.

Consider the Italian parliament who horse trade independents regularly, they have had 50 parliaments in 50 years so policy has a 12 month shelf life.

We should also ditch compulsory voting.

<< That is about the only thing I can find not to like about him >>

Whaaat??

Hazza, I thought you hated ALL pollies!! ( :>|

.

Belly, yes I can see that FPTP voting could favour Labor. Well, what can I say – of course we should not have a system that favours one party over others, if at all possible.

We absolutely need a preferential system. And it must be optional preferential, not compulsory preferential. HUGE difference!

<< Abbott is the best thing Labor has going for them >>

Yes, well… up til yesterday. Now Turnbull appears to be their greatest ally!! (See my last post)

Before his absurd comments yesterday, Turnbull may well have boosted the Libs quite substantially by becoming leader. But now I would think that his probable forthcoming leadership will take them substantially backwards.

Twenty three million people is not much, We could comfortably go to fifty million. People drive growth.
We can have a sustainable country, and growth at the same time.
Our own lot as is does not cover the death rate. So you would have a contracting economy, without immigration.
I don't like boat people, because they are que jumpers, invitation only.

The reason why the lefty acolytes keep bleating on about Turnbull being the preferred Coalition leader is because he is their boy.

Turnbull has one allegiance only, and that is to himself. How this chameleon landed in Liberals backyard is due to one thing alone and it is not ideology, it was opportunity. Remember Whitlam Turnbull & Co? Turncoat was in partnership with Neville Wran and Nicholas Whitlam so his ideological bent was obvious.

Turncoat is a plant.

597...lol...continous growth is why the world is in such a mess. Its people like you that cant see. Question. When today's youth leave school, where are they going to go?

50 million...lol.....is there a name for whats wrong with you?

Oh dear.....

Planet3

Hasbeen,
Yeah Turnbull is in the wrong party. Now he is advocating abig population like Rudd was as well as an ETS, so he and his banker mates could play money games and make heaps for themselves.

Funny that labor supporters are naming Turnbull for a Liberal leader. Labor has a real good record of picking leaders. They picked a show pony in Rudd who completely stuffed the border controls that worked, then gave in to the hyjackers on the 'Oceanic viking'. Then they gave us Gillard and that just made things worse. Now they have scandles relating to the unions, the HSU, AWU, and now the CFMEU. ON top of that we now have 3 former Labor NSW ministers facing corruption hearings. Yep labor can sure pick em!

If Liberals want government, they should totally ignor anyone labor supporters suggest.

At least Abbott saved us from an ETS.

rehctub you're spot on & the likes of 579 ( poor thing couldn't make it to 580) are simply wrong.

"Interestingly Abbott is a qualified economist?."

And a failed journalist, a failed priest, an unethical man of demonstrated amoral standards, a proven liar, an inept and inherently dishonest politician and a hypocrite of the highest order. A man with no vision but only a lust for personal power at any cost. A man who has been bought by - and is controlled by - a religious extremist faction within his own party. A man who surrounds himself with lickspittle reich-wing acolytes who he refuses to allow a conscience vote on non-partisan social issues.

I guess that qualifies him.

a lust for personal power at any cost.
wobbles,
you just described the bulk of Labor to a Tee & openly displayed your utter lack of judging another's character. Being a perfect cronie for the left I suppose is what you lot excel at.
I just would like you to answer this question please. Do you people really believe you care about others ?

wobbles mate, I see you are letting your self be insulted yet again.
While backing down is not an option just read the junk aimed at you.
Like swimming in an open septic tank.
You will find it hard to believe, but I am 100% labor
But see no gains in ignoring our faults or dreaming others will.
Yet you take on fixed position posters who never would change, and allowe them to charge you with?
The very biases they hold too.
That post under yours is par for that posters course, do you think you can cut through that bigotry?
IMPOSABLE! nothing can open a closed mind, teach a rock anything.
Look at this days papers, see the truth about past LABOR CRIMINALS.
look harder try to see current and recent past HIDDEN ACTS of the other side.
Review the NSW government, its 120 million gift to Packer.
Know truth only is heard about Labor.
Know too such as your detractors sponsor the grubby crimes we hear little about, by seeing only one side.

It will be an interesting lead up to the next election, as labor, thanks to thier incompetence and missmanagement of our funds, have nothing to offer in the way of 'pork barreling' in a desperate attempt to win votes.

Un,ess of cause they take funds from elsewhere, but they have flogged this option to death thanks to Mr Swans quest for a surplus at any cost.

In fact, he's even taken out an IOU from the big end of town, by way of making them pay tax earlier.

It will most likely be a negative campaign from both sides, the difference being that while labor will be predicting the negatives that the libs may do, the libs will be highlighting the negatives THAT LABOR HAVE ALREADY DONE.

If this is the case, labor will start to slide the minute the campaign begins, as there is a huge difference between a 'prediction' of poor performance and a 'track record' of poor performance.

579. Mate, do yourself a favour and take your head out of the sand and take a good hard look around.

579 it is clear, every thing you say is wrong.
As rechtub /runner/or individual, they know.
Only pulling your leg.
But gee they have a hide!

My guess is that they will time the next federal election to coincide with a huge number of school leavers i.e. first time voters to count on.
To rehctub's challenge I have conducted my own survey over the past few days among contractors & their employees & public servants.
The blue collar brigade shot Labor down in flames & even went through the trouble of (verbally) burying them. As could be expected the majority of public service employees ran down Labor but still vote for them because they spend more than the conservatives.
My conclusion is that people are simply exploiting the incompetence of Labor & dislike the idea of Liberal on account of perhaps having to actually perform i.e. have their employment based on merit. And they're forced to vote !
Sad, sad society indeed.

Butch,
What is the betting, Labor will just borrow more to buy votes at the election. Labor has no concept of financial management, they only think about the here and now. If it sounds good and will get a few votes, they will do it.

Look how they conned the disabled a while back, into thinking they will get a NDIS at a cost of $4.5 billion a year. When in fact they had no money and no idea how they could get money. The education thing is another one at a cost of $6.5 billion a year and no idea how it can be financed.

Labor is all about spin, all hype and no substance.

A trial concept of the NDIS is being instigated in Geelong now. The NDIS is a joint funding with the states.
The Education concept was a recommendation by experts, labor put the recommendations forward, with the estimated costing. If it is seen to be viable or not remains to be seen.
What makes you think it is set in concrete. A lot of different recommendations are made, not all succeed some have to be bipartisan.
With an opposition that do not talk politics it is a tough ask, for any advancement to the betterment of our nation.

Well here we go again,
For someone with the tag of "individual" you seem to let the Bolts and Jones' do your thinking for you.
Any amount of unqualified personal abuse can be levelled at Gillard but just dare to criticise Abbott and suddenly it's an "utter lack of judging another's character" and the being a "cronie for the left" old chestnut dragged out yet again.

Is that the best you can come up with? How about some facts to dispute what I've said?

Do I care about others?

I certainly care more than those who think the poor should be fed from the scraps of the rich man's table and the best way to help the poor is by giving the rich larger meals as you rusted-on Tories and failed Reaganomics refugees continue to believe.
That remains the core belief of the Libs.

I care that people should be awarded their full entitlements in a fair society, including both personal dignity and truth rather than being played for fools by a pervasive self-interested media who dish their version of the truth up as ten second sound-bytes.
I care enough to think that public assets should remain in public hands and not be awarded as prizes to corporate sponsors.

Despite what you assume, I'm no fan of 21st century Labor but care enough to find out what's really behind the alternative.

Do your own historical research. Read some (quality) books and find out how the system really works instead of becoming a Tea Party astro-turf acolyte.
Listen to full parliamentary broadcasts sometime rather than rely on selective snippets by spin merchants.

Find out what power base is responsible for "hot-housing" Abbott (and others) rapidly into positions of influence and what their agenda is.
You may be surprised.

Otherwise, just vote for him and keep your fingers crossed.

wobbles,
stop hiding behind those clichés of tory-bashing. Pull your head out of the sand & look at how many families are struggling because your beloved party & it's union masters have all but ruined the chances for employment in this country. You say you care yet you support those who ruin it all. Get real.

Read some (quality) books and find out how the system really works
wobbles,
I live & work in a heavily Labor seat with labor supporting bureaucrat managers, Labor voting blow-in experts from various Universities etc. i.e. your average indigenous community.
Our local employment rate has gone from 85% to about 1% of blue collar jobs. All other work is by 1 week every 3 months fly-ins. I leave it to your imagination as to how much actual work gets done.
Training for locals ? What's that ? Ah I see, you send them 1000km to the nearest town with all expenses & allowances for a week to attend a 2 day course. Then give them a certificate no matter if they passed or not. Then you send them back & complain that they aren't doing their job which no-one actually knows what it is. Well, at least you can say look how much money we're spending on training. Hooray! The taxpayers won't know & the bureaucrats don't give a hoot.
That.s what Labor has done over the past 20 years. Now the Coalition is copping crap for trying to sort out that mess. There wobbles is some research for you.

I'm a bit late joining in here, but I'll offer my thoughts.

I think you're right - it would be hard to find more than a handful who approve of the job Gillard is doing. I think approval ratings reflect an awareness of the alternative: Abbott is a bit of a scary prospect. I don't particularly like Ms Gillard, and I find little endearing about the ALP, but I shudder to think of Mr Abbott as our PM. Consequently, I probably don't think of Julia Gillard in as harsh a light as I would if her opposite number was up to scratch.

I think some of the other posters in here are right, too: if you asked about the people's faith in the Coalition and, in particular, in Tony Abbott, you'd get a similar response: thumbs down.

I don't share the sentiments expressed in here about many others - Julie Bishop, for example, stands out in my eyes as one of the better MPs on offer. She certainly stands a head and shoulders above Julia Gillard and Penny Wong (in my opinion, that is). I don't see her as PM, though. I once thought Turnbull would be a great option, but his stint as leader changed my mind.

I reckon the 50/50 balance represents a disdain from and towards all sides rather than a true faith or hope in one or the other.

otokonoko,
I'll give you 11 out of 10 for trying to destabilise Coalition support by offering a merry-go-round of MPs' rather than give Tony Abbott a fair go. Remember the catch cry ? Fair Go ! Labor's biggest catch cry but not when it comes to others.
Tony Abbott has you lot cringing in fear & rightly so, you've been on the bandwagon at our expense for too long.
My prediction is that Abbott will make a very good, down to earth Prime Minister who will govern with sense & dignity. If you don't know what sense & dignity means you can look it up just about anywhere except in Labor journals I suppose.
Even If Abbott can't govern properly due to Labor interference he'll still perform better that Labor ever could. Don't lecture us about good leaders, try & find one amongst yourselves. Good Luck !

"...If you don't know what sense & dignity means you can look it up just about anywhere except in Labor journals..."

Excellent, individual....don't argue the point - insult the poster instead.

Otokonoko posts a well-balanced and non-inflammatory view - and you decide that anyone who doesn't roundly extol Mr Abbott as PM deserves to be censured.

"....Mr Abbott has you lot cringing in fear & rightly so - you've been on the bandwagon at our expense too long...."

Why say the above to Otokonoko?

Let's face it, Mr Abbott should be a shoe in. If he exuded a true statesmanship or a definable quality of leadership, and if he wasn't so likely to put his foot in his mouth, us lefties would see him as a more viable option.

So far this guy seems to me like a cardboard cutout - I'm waiting for signs of life

Signs of life. That maybe beyond recall. The carbon tax took that much out of MR Abbott, only to find it beyond mentioning.
He has shifted his rhetoric to the surplus, albeit a little soon. Closely followed by Hockey.
Not one of the opposition talks about economy, or anything else that is relevant to AU.
There is a cringe factor going on, with nasty comment as well.
Everything has to do with past tense, never future events.
Foot in mouth is rampant, sexism, old news, nail thomson, slipper, gillard, do anything except talk politics. They can not be seen to be politically illiterate

Poirot & 579,
here you are having a go at me with worse. get real. .

don't argue the point - insult the poster instead. That's not an insult, since when is stating facts insulting ? I'm not making these remarks without basis, I'm taking into account the poster's history. He/she/it supports the crowd that makes life very hard for many & is ruining the country. In my book anyone who supports something like that is not a genuine decent character.

Oko put a post together that speaks for most Australians.
In that post he made it CLEAR he is no lover of Labor, as is his right.
But in both party,s, remember less than 20% swing, and those undecided,think the same.
Our leaders are unloved, by most of the population.
Soon Abbott will be replaced, this may force Gillards replacement.
Look with an honest heart at indys posts.
He is far from alone here, unbalanced comments and formed around insults.
Some past and present posters got extra rope, it was clear they did not quite have a grip.
Do we gain anything by rebutting such, or are we feeding the problem.
Oko you have it right, do not let your self be BULLIED.
Challenging Tony Abbott's fitness to govern is treated as war, doing the same for Gillard?
You have to laugh.

individual,

That's an impressive piece of rationalisation.

And what's this?...."In my book anyone who supports something like that is not a genuine decent character."

Something like what?

Here's Otokonoko's post:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5456&page=0#149032

It's an eminently reasonable post - perhaps the most considered on this thread.

individual,

It's a bit rich to blame everything that happened in "the last twenty years" soley on the ALP - and what party was it again that made savage cut-backs to education, abolished all the Keating training schemes and hiked up HECS fees? Who introduced the biggest regressive tax hike in our history and remains the highest taxing party we have ever had? Who plundered the public purse and sold off most of our assets so they could use the cash to buy middle-class votes and reward their owners? Who went against all agreed convention and played the race card just to hang onto power? Who got us into two unwinnable and rather expensive wars?

Not everybody saw those mean-and-tricky years as a golden age and a lot of people had been badly hurt - as the subsequent election results later proved.

I said I wasn't a diehard Labor supporter but I simply don't think the LNP are capable of making the necessary changes we need now to prepare us for the years ahead. They are good at doing nothing unless they really have to and historically it's always been the ALP that makes all the big changes.

As for "union control", what groups do you think is behind the Libs? Abbott is only their PR front man and they are not so squeaky clean as you seem to think. His power base is the same one that got rid of Brogden and they control most of NSW.

Look at what's happened with incoming Liberal governments in NSW, QLD and Victoria and just imagine what's in store for us nationally.

Something like what?
Poirot, I did point that out quite clearly.

wobbles,
it is definitely not rich to blame Labor for just about all that's gone wrong, because they did & continue to ruin all we work for.
Those savage cut backs to education were cut backs to waste. There was no evidence that any of that funding ever made into educating. Health is the same. Law & Order are non existent to a large extent. ALL thanks to Labor. There is nothing you can state that will convince the sober thinker of Labor being nothing but a mob of incompetent suckers on our tax dollars.
I experience this incompetence on a blatant scale on a daily basis. If you can't see that then all I can put that down to is ignorance, after isn't ignorance supposed to be bliss ?

Abbott says getting rid of the carbon tax is the way to lower power prices. 10% will not do much in lowering power prices that have risen 50%
When asked if he had a plan for the rest of the increases he could not answer.
No policies, no ideas, no political nous.

When asked if he had a plan.
579,
In all probability he was asked by a Labor crony so I'd be tempted not to bother answering because why waste the time when no explanation is the best explanation.