Rainier Rudd is a ratbag, & Swan is a dumb ox. How either got where they did/are is down to good acting ability, & a total lack of talent in Labor.

However this thread is a bit pointless, as Graham will just delete any post which uses the only words suitable for describing Gillard.

I look forward to your next thread, it sounds interesting.

Banjo (and others who take this same view) I agree with the logic in your explanation in that getting rid of a dysfunctional leader is never easy and that there may not have been another acceptable process of mediation that Rudd would have supported in resolving his tyrannical style of leadership. However, I'm compelled to ask - does such a process exist now with Gillard? I suspect not, and this speaks directly to the problem at hand within the Labor party - many of the up and coming new brands of Labor leadership do not embrace notions of natural justice. Many of them were schooled in the dark arts of conspiracy of political assassination. Within this culture of "New Laborism" compromise becomes far more difficult; reasoning becomes far less responsive to facts; and combatants begin to believe that the ends justify the means. When that happens, partisans are more willing to break laws, play dirty tricks, lie, and ruin the personal lives of their opponents - all in the service of what they think is a good cause. I don't for a minute believe Rudd is championing for a reform of the Labor party & away from these toxic practices, but I believe McKew is arguing for this in her book, albeit in a rather clumsy way. Abbott is therefore face with a greater challenge and that is not only to (1) promise good governance, but (2) a shift away from this precarious political culture. Gillard by dint of the blood on her hands cannot run the same line. But I suspect she will.

<< I want to highlight my mate Ludwig is wrong. >>

Sorry Belly but I'm going to have to say that you are categorically wrong this time.

Rainier says:

<< I agree with the logic in your [Banjo's] explanation in that getting rid of a dysfunctional leader is never easy and that there may not have been another acceptable process of mediation that Rudd would have supported in resolving his tyrannical style of leadership. >>

Yes! How else could it have been done without it turning into an almighty shambles or at least threatening to do so?

The important thing is that Rudd had mucked up so badly that his colleagues deemed it necessary for him to go. And surely there was a lot of merit in doing it as quickly and cleanly as possible.

I really can't see where Gillard's purported lies are or where there is any fault of significance on her part in this event.

She probably got her information from Abbott and the libs.
Women write good fairy tales.

I note much of the anti Rudd stuff comes from Conservatives.
And just want to say what ever he is, Gillard her kill team are worse.
Day of her installation I said I would never trust her.
Only good thing? she will be gone soon, even if its after she leads Labor over the cliff.
Welcome Back Turnbull.

Noel Pearson rang the warning bell about Rudd in the run up to the 07 election. He was also reflecting on his own engagements with Rudd when Rudd was the Chief of Staff and then Director-General of the Office of Cabinet in the Wayne Goss Qld Labor government that overthrew Bjelke Petersen's nationals. Pearson said something along these lines. "Beware the snake within". And he was right. Rudd's narcisism operates at a much level than most - sociopathic even. Rudd's centralist leadership style, and his at times insulting and rude treatment of staff and other ministers would not have been a surprise to many. It makes me wonder if they knew that Rudd could 1) overthrow Howard in 07 but 2) would have to be nobbled soon after.