Gillard's unprincipled political exerpts of Maxine McKew’s book: Tales From The Political Trenches) What kind of person would want to become PM at any cost? To plan and plot to ungraciously bring down an incumbent PM, and then to deny the assassination had been planned over a much longer period of time? This surely not someone who deserves to be PM, let alone a parliamentarian. Yes, I can accept the rough and tumble of internal party politics (from whichever party) but I cannot abide those whose hunger for power is greater than their sense of fairness and decency. We can look back in time and ponder about the personal tussles between the likes of Keating & Hawke, Howard & Costello, but we can never look back now and describe Gillard’s assassination of Rudd as anything less than a ruthless and cowardly king hit.

Rainer,Labour are a political cesspool of dishonesty and corruption.A new party must be born from their ashes.

While the Coalition are marginally better,they still have some fragments of integrity.

Rainier I though that was all pretty much known anyway. Denied by Gillard and her supporters but there seems to have been enough indicators out there for a long time to make it a given.

I've not seen anything to convince me that there is any strong interest in the concept of fairness from any of the political parties.

As as far as I can tell it's all about their agenda's or appeasing the lobby groups and stuff any concept of fair play.

R0bert

The whole concept of people who dedicate there time and life to the service of others is gone.

What we have now are people who want to appear to be working for the good of the nation but in reality are lining the pockets of there friends and relatives most are not stupid enough to be lining there own pockets at the present - there reward comes in the future with massive directors fees being paid to them for as little as a few hour meetings once a year or lucrative other job offers from people that they assisted to grow richer.

Hold on Rainier, Rudd NEEDED TO GO!!

The Labor power-brokers and indeed most of his ministers and back-benchers could see a huge stuff-up occurring before their eyes, conducted by their leader.

It wasn’t a matter of Gillard planning long in advance to topple Rudd, it was a matter of Rudd putting himself in a position where he not only could be toppled, but really needed to be toppled!

And Gillard was then the obvious choice as his replacement.

Your criticism of Gillard is misplaced. Rudd got his comeuppance and Gillard whether she liked it or not, whether she had had long-standing plans to become PM or not, whether she had in any way schemed behind the scenes or not, was THE person to take over.

The important point is that Rudd really just totally muffed it and needed to be relieved of his duties.

And I say; damn good move. Boy, it was a hoot and a half to see that actually happen!!

Rainer I agree with you and have a thread talking about this.
I want to highlight my mate Ludwig is wrong.
And arjay is quite lost on this issue
This mornings poll is not a Labor rise.
In truth it is the boy who cried Wolf being rejected.
Abbottism, that crying Wolf distancing them selves from truth, has bought about a 50/50 two party preferred.
But too the end of a rather frothing at the mouth silly little man Abbott,in time Gillard too, Australia will be the better for it.

So in other words Belly, we have simply taken another step DOWN the ladder.

Here we go, it's yet another race to the bottom for us.

Whuppie!

Neither party seems to possess a drover’s dog.

It’s rather unfortunate that McKew is a woman. I mean, it makes it a mite difficult for the spin-doctors to explain away her exposé as a bad case of misogyny.

Whatever you may think of Rudd, he deserved better than the lying, scheming and backstabbing that (his loyal deputy) Gillard and (his old school chum) Swan dished out.

Rudd would probably have lost the 2010 election.
I found his press stops and his goody too shoes religious approach pitiful and annoying, particularly after is New York escapde.
Can anyone imagine Rudd coping with a hung parliament. Julia Gillard has done an excellent job in the most trying of circumstances.
Every politician thinks he or she has a Field Marshall's baton in their kit bags but most don't! Instead they have an inflated opinion of their own worth and the gift of the gab.
Even Rhodes Scholars in windbag subjects aren't much use. We need people capable of accurate assessments of situations and solve problems. In wartime those who showed they had those abilities were mostly science graduates, particularly in physics. Physics and Euclidean Geometry teach people to think clearly, even laterally.

Rainier,
In Belly's thread, he is talking about giving the rank and file members more say in party matters. In this case you are talking abouta party leader who is elected by the parliamentarians.

How else can they replace a leader that is not performing or does not work better with his fellow members? If some members want a leader replaced they have to quietly talk amongest themselves and lobby the others untill they have the numbers to call a leadership spill.

One can call it scheming or plotting but if the incumbent does not wish to retire, there is no other way.

In this particular case their replacement has turned out to be a bad choice and now appears to have made the party unelectable.

hey its nice to see old mates posting on this thread, thanks :)

my motive for posting this is that I'm trying to fathom the mood and thinkinng of the electorate i guess. McKew appears to put a lot emphasis on people not forgetting how Rudd was sacked, others not so much at all. I think Mckew's book will be the last of the long trail of revelations and there will be no more bomb shells. Rudd will no doubt be grumbling about his sacking for the rest of his life - not inlike a punch drunk boxer who lost his last fight and title. And for the record, I've got a personal interest in this because I was only a year or two behind Rudd and Swann at Nambour High and I'm still trying to understand how they both ended up in the Labor Party, at least the Labor party I knew back then. More on this soon.

Rainier Rudd is a ratbag, & Swan is a dumb ox. How either got where they did/are is down to good acting ability, & a total lack of talent in Labor.

However this thread is a bit pointless, as Graham will just delete any post which uses the only words suitable for describing Gillard.

I look forward to your next thread, it sounds interesting.

Banjo (and others who take this same view) I agree with the logic in your explanation in that getting rid of a dysfunctional leader is never easy and that there may not have been another acceptable process of mediation that Rudd would have supported in resolving his tyrannical style of leadership. However, I'm compelled to ask - does such a process exist now with Gillard? I suspect not, and this speaks directly to the problem at hand within the Labor party - many of the up and coming new brands of Labor leadership do not embrace notions of natural justice. Many of them were schooled in the dark arts of conspiracy of political assassination. Within this culture of "New Laborism" compromise becomes far more difficult; reasoning becomes far less responsive to facts; and combatants begin to believe that the ends justify the means. When that happens, partisans are more willing to break laws, play dirty tricks, lie, and ruin the personal lives of their opponents - all in the service of what they think is a good cause. I don't for a minute believe Rudd is championing for a reform of the Labor party & away from these toxic practices, but I believe McKew is arguing for this in her book, albeit in a rather clumsy way. Abbott is therefore face with a greater challenge and that is not only to (1) promise good governance, but (2) a shift away from this precarious political culture. Gillard by dint of the blood on her hands cannot run the same line. But I suspect she will.

<< I want to highlight my mate Ludwig is wrong. >>

Sorry Belly but I'm going to have to say that you are categorically wrong this time.

Rainier says:

<< I agree with the logic in your [Banjo's] explanation in that getting rid of a dysfunctional leader is never easy and that there may not have been another acceptable process of mediation that Rudd would have supported in resolving his tyrannical style of leadership. >>

Yes! How else could it have been done without it turning into an almighty shambles or at least threatening to do so?

The important thing is that Rudd had mucked up so badly that his colleagues deemed it necessary for him to go. And surely there was a lot of merit in doing it as quickly and cleanly as possible.

I really can't see where Gillard's purported lies are or where there is any fault of significance on her part in this event.

She probably got her information from Abbott and the libs.
Women write good fairy tales.

I note much of the anti Rudd stuff comes from Conservatives.
And just want to say what ever he is, Gillard her kill team are worse.
Day of her installation I said I would never trust her.
Only good thing? she will be gone soon, even if its after she leads Labor over the cliff.
Welcome Back Turnbull.

Noel Pearson rang the warning bell about Rudd in the run up to the 07 election. He was also reflecting on his own engagements with Rudd when Rudd was the Chief of Staff and then Director-General of the Office of Cabinet in the Wayne Goss Qld Labor government that overthrew Bjelke Petersen's nationals. Pearson said something along these lines. "Beware the snake within". And he was right. Rudd's narcisism operates at a much level than most - sociopathic even. Rudd's centralist leadership style, and his at times insulting and rude treatment of staff and other ministers would not have been a surprise to many. It makes me wonder if they knew that Rudd could 1) overthrow Howard in 07 but 2) would have to be nobbled soon after.

Rainier,
I seem to recall that you have been critical of Noel Pearson, or at least some of his ideas/proposals, so it is good to see that you acknowledge his early warning about Rudds personality.

Gillards performance has been disastorous but maybe she has survived thus far because that Labor has sunk so far that no up and coming politician wants to risk being blamed for an election defeat, so no one will stand against her. They are bidding their time untill after the election defeat.

Rudd is probably the only one with sufficient ego to think he can win for Labor, but so far the caucus won't have him.

"She probably got her information from Abbott and the libs.
Women write good fairy tales." http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5447#148734

There is an article of female authors of fairy stories at http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/modern_language_quarterly/v065/65.2seifert.html

Somehow I doubt that was what the post was about though. In context it looks more like a touch of the new wave mysogony.

Mysogony to defend a misandrist, what a trend setter.

R0bert