This is a poem written by a real farmer ( in Australia) to highlight the seriousness of the depression they are suffering out there.


RAIN FROM NOWHERE



His cattle didn't get a bid, they were fairly bloody poor,
What was he going to do? He couldn't feed them anymore,
The dams were all but dry, hay was thirteen bucks a bale,
Last month's talk of rain was just a fairytale,

His credit had run out, no chance to pay what's owed,
Bad thoughts ran through his head as he drove down Gully Road
"Geez, great grandad bought the place back in 1898,
"Now I'm such a useless bastard, I'll have to shut the gate.
"Can't support my wife and kids, not like dad and those before,
"Even Grandma kept it going while Pop fought in the war."
With depression now his master, he abandoned what was right,
There's no place in life for failures, he'd end it all tonight.

There were still some things to do, he'd have to shoot the cattle first,
Of all the jobs he'd ever done, that would be the worst.
He'd have a shower, watch the news, then they'd all sit down for tea
Read his kids a bedtime story, watch some more TV,
Kiss his wife goodnight, say he was off to shoot some roos
Then in a paddock far away he'd blow away the blues.
But he drove in the gate and stopped - as he always had
To check the roadside mailbox - and found a letter from his Dad.



Now his dad was not a writer, Mum did all the cards and mail
But he knew the style from the notebooks that he used at cattle sales,
He sensed the nature of its contents, felt moisture in his eyes,
Just the fact his dad had written was enough to make him cry.
"Son, I know it's bloody tough, it's a cruel and twisted game,
"This life upon the land when you're screaming out for rain,
"There's no candle in the darkness, not a single speck of light

PALE - I agree with the sentiment, and I live in rural Australia myself. I see how hard it's getting every day.

Though it's a little contrary, when one of the only solutions for many farmers is to shift their operation to an intensive animal industry for profitability. It's happening all over the area where I live now.

Which baffles me as to why you state in your moniker that you're opposed to one of the few things that are allowing farmers to stay on the land, after a fashion.

(Just to clarify, I'm referring to intensive animal industries. I'll concede live exports don't necessarily do that much for farmers and cause unnecessary suffering to animals.)

POEM CONTINUED

"But don't let the demon get you, you have to do what's right,

"I don't know what's in your head but push the bad thoughts well away
"See, you'll always have your family at the back end of the day
"You have to talk to someone, and yes I know I rarely did
"But you have to think about Fiona and think about the kids.
"I'm worried about you son, you haven't rung for quite a while,
"I know the road you're on 'cause I've walked every mile.
"The date? December 7 back in 1983,
"Behind the shed I had the shotgun rested in the brigalow tree.

"See, I'd borrowed way too much to buy the Johnson place
"Then it didn't rain for years and we got bombed by interest rates,
You said 'Where are you Daddy? It's time to play our game'
"' I've got Squatter all set up, you might get General Rain.'
"It really was that close, you're the one that stopped me son,
"And you're the one that taught me there's no answer in a gun.
"Just remember people love you, good friends won't let you down.
"Look, you might have to swallow pride and get a job in town,
"Just 'til things come good, son, you've always got a choice
"And when you get this letter ring me, 'cause I'd love to hear your
voice."

Well he cried and laughed and shook his head then put the truck in gear,
Shut his eyes and hugged his dad in a vision that was clear,
Dropped the cattle at the yards, put the truck away
Filled the troughs the best he could and fed his last ten bales of hay.
Then he strode towards the homestead, shoulders back and head held high,

FARMER POEM CONTINUED
He still knew the road was tough but there was purpose in his eye.
He called for his wife and children, who'd lived through all his pain,
Hugs said more than words - he'd come back to them again,
They talked of silver linings, how good times always follow bad,
Then he walked towards the phone, picked it up and rang his Dad.
And while the kids set up the Squatter, he hugged his wife again,
Then they heard the roll of thunder and they smelt the smell of rain.

Murray Hartin
February 2007

Muzza (Murray Hartin) A farmer has been asked to pen something. He
came up with this poem which I think is exceptional, brought a tear to my eye
anyhow.

A LETTER FORM MY SISTER
Hi Wendy,
Great poem. poem? I thought ages ago that it would be great to get a school to "adopt" a farm - raise money to feed the animals and buy water etc. and the farmer's kids could take some photos and sed it back to the school and when the drought breaks (it must sometime !) then perhaps the kids could have their "school camp" visiting their adopted farm. My problem is I cannot get in touch with the right people on the other end. I sent a letter to the CWA and got a letter back giving me the phone number of the President but she did not call me and when I rang I got no reply. With a poem like this it would be a good opening to get a school interested.
We would be Happy to start Off With Our School AICOL

Just my thoughts. { Those poor Animals and Farmers!
Love Jan
Jan

Reply To Turnrightleft and Center

Here is our support Free Range Farmers web site.>

http://www.freerangefarmers.com/freerange/

Intensive farming is cruel and unnessay. We support Free Range Farming. Intensive poultry causes dieases such as bird flu. Feedlots cause foot and mouth.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=+disease+caused+through+animal+intensive+farms+.+indonesia+&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N
http://www.themeatrix.com/


Intensive Farming "An Act Of Gross Injustice Carried out Under a cloud of secrecy and a mockery Of Legality.

paleif,
"Feedlots cause foot and mouth" and here was me thinking it was a virus!

Plenty of feedlots in Australia, no foot and mouth.

Murray Hartin's poem is certainly one of his best and unlike his usually humorous works. He's not really a farmer but definately from a rural background.

Rojo
There has been years ago. All diseases are caused through intensive farming. That includes bird flu. It only stands to reason if you Jam people in together in tight areas diseases and viruse spead.

Same with Animals. Except probably Anthrax which comes from the soil spornes.
Australia has a natural belt of Anthrax and we have lost a few meat workers. Of course its hardly been mentioned.

When I get around to it I will post some info on Animal Diseases etc.
They are many many in particular with the intensive piggerys.

Thats why they stuff them with Anti Biotics all the time.

However I think you already are aware of that.

I would really like to concentrate on this thread as to what we can do to help farmers if you dont mind.
. Good night All.
.
Parliament of Australia: Senate: Committee:Provisions of the ...72, Australian Federation of Islamic Council and Councils (in conjunction with Halal Kind Meats, PALE and RSPCA Qld) (PDF 81KB) ...
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An extraordinary poem.

Brought more than a tear to the eye. Just been sitting here mulling over it for ages, trying to find some appropriate words. But no words fit the emotions.

Outstanding! Words that stir the spirit like those of A.B.Paterson. I'm a city dweller, and we have water restrictions which means we can't wash our cars. Our fellow Aussies in the bush have water restrictions which mean they can't feed their livestock or pay their mortgages and some are putting guns to their heads.

Thankyou for sharing this poem, it gives us an insight into what's its like for those living off the land.

I would like to see a copy of this poem put into every mailbox in the land - both real and email. How can we do that? Who can we talk to? I'm going to send a copy to my local federal MP.

Shadrach
Yup its true blue. That is a wonderful gesture.

I would like to help you achieve that goal.

You may contact me at this email address and we can come up with ideas. Hopefully others might offer to get involved as well.

info@livexports.com

PALE

It's all very well to support organic farming, and say you don't like the process of Intensive Animal Industries

I speak with saleyard operators frequently - you know what is keeping the industry going? Feedlots.

It's cuddly to say, yay organics, but how exactly is the drought afflicted farmer your poem describes supposed to do that on his absolutely parched land?

Switching them all across to organic farming sounds nice, but the resources required are immense.

You're holding on to impractical ideals which doom the farmer you describe to more misery.

Turnrightleft

This thread is about raising awareness for farmers on the land.

Real farmers. Plenty of them out there.

What I said was Farmers. Didnt you know that there are crop farmers as well. What about the beef farmers dairy all the other farms.

The attempt by yourself to take away from these blokes on the land and their families is shameful.

The poem was put up to raise awareness of how hard it is in the country.

How hard it is for all the Aussies running hundred and thousands of acres.
The poor bloke growing lucerne and other crops.

The farmer who sent this to us is a lucerne farmer.

He reckons that he is pretty worried that "his neighboiur" down the road "who as he put it" might be doing it a bit tough.

He thought we might be able to send him a bit of feed and water for some of his stock.

All that concern while he sits on his own verandah and eats dust himself.
This is Australia and those are our true Aussie heros!
The ones you know knowing about. the ones inlike you who never complain. The ones that always worry about their mates first.

Normally this would be a busy time of the year for him mind you.
He was telling me he broke down a bit because the phones ringing its head off with people looking for lucerne.

He said he had never been so bloody busy answering phones for orders, he laughed. A big deep sad laugh that brought tears to my ears and pride too!

He cracked a joke saying he reckons they are all working harder this year than another year because all the city people were calling not wanting to pay the higher prices in the produce stores.

He said in that wonderful dry humour that only a bush bloke has.

He actually touched on something about Amanda doing it tough in parliment but I wont share it with you right now because I reckon he would figure that was not right somehow.

PALE - we're agreed on how hard it is for farmers. It'sa bit rich to hear you say my efforts are shameful, when every single one of your posts says "against intensive animal industries."

How do you think this makes the farmers depending on these businesses to support their families feel?

I'm living in the country, where it is so hard - and I live among those whose livelihood depends on intensive farming.

You speak of a grain farmer - a great deal of grain goes toward these feedlots.

By all means, post the poem for others to consider - but be aware that your stance on removing intensive animal industries would threaten livelihoods.

Pointing out that you're a) asking farmers to remove their intensive industries b) suggesting organic farming as an alternative while c) pointing out how hard it is to make a living using standard farming practices, is rather difficult to countenance.

PALE

Thanks for sharing the poem with us all and it is great to see that is strikes a cord with both urban and rural dwellers.

I do however have to share TurnRightTurnLeft sentiments with the possible conflict between trying to help farmers and yet taking away one of the only resources available to them during drought and declining rates of profitability.

Feedlots, for example, provide bulk rates and quantities for cultivation crops and then set margins for cattle producers to finish their stock.

I currently live and work in South West Queensland. It makes it hard when it doesnt rain, but even harder if it doesnt rain for 6 years!

In my area we have had one of the best seasons over the past decade. Grass, in part has responded, and people are contemplating re-stocking. Added to this, the Channel regions of Queensland are bursting with grass, cattle and wild life. Our Northern friends are complaining of too much rain! While it may be dry in some areas- other areas are absorbing great conditions. The old adage- as long as it is raining somewhere- the market will stay up.

In my line of business as an agribusiness advisor we deal with suicidal and very depressed clients every day. While I sympathise with them and recognise the signs when people are in real trouble, my aim is to provide them with objective solutions to their problems. It is amazing when people sit down and calmly go through a business plan and budget and you put up straight forward and practical decisions how the "weight of the world" can be lifted. The decisions are not always easy- sell more stock, sell a property, refinance a loan, - but being equipped with the best possible information and advice takes the pressure off the decision making process.

While I was moved by the romantic image of the poem and the "bush spirit" it invokes- we must not loose sight of the need for practical and objective solutions which farmers require.

Like or not- it involves intensive agriculture.

rightwrong

The poem was Posted to tell what people living on farms are going through.

Keeping poultry, pigs, cattle in areas so small they cant spread their wings or turn around, walk, stand up or have any natural life is not exceptable.

You are shameful to try to take this thread away from the REAL FARMERS and what they are going through.


I am sitting in my dingy little office, where a stingy
Ray of sunlight struggles feebly down between the houses tall,
And the foetid air and gritty of the dusty, dirty city
Through the open window floating, spreads its foulness over all.

And in place of lowing cattle, I can hear the fiendish rattle
Of the tramways and the buses making hurry down the street,
And the language uninviting of the gutter children fighting,
Comes fitfully and faintly through the ceaseless tramp of feet.

I often go to bed in the wee hours of the morning in tears weeping for these people who have weeped for their no crops and starving animals.

One bloke I spoke to couldnt even afford bulltes to put the out of misery.

Surley you have watched the news and seen the farmers screaming about their water supplies being re-diverted from to citys.

And in place of lowing cattle, I can hear the fiendish rattle
Of the tramways and the buses making hurry down the street,
And the language uninviting of the gutter children fighting,
Comes fitfully and faintly through the ceaseless tramp of feet.

And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt me
As they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,
With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy,
For townsfolk have no time to grow, they have no time to waste.

And I somehow fancy that I'd like to change with Clancy,
Like to take a turn at droving where the seasons come and go,
While he faced the round eternal of the cashbook and the journal -
But I doubt he'd suit the office, Clancy, of "The Overflow".

A.B. 'Banjo' Paterso

This poem by 'Muzza' Hartin (read in bush poetry style) was written at the request of the Salvation Army to bring public awareness to the plight of the rural farmer, and has been publicised by the ABC since February. It is a fictional piece but no doubt reflects tough country life - many people, bush and city (I hope) empathise with it. Indeed, rural suicide rates are climbing disproportionately across the nation - a fact.

I have this poem read when I give talks and presentations about global warming. I do this in the context that we all know there are changes in the wind, that something is not quite right - you know it. The poem epitomises anecdotal evidence of climate change. So then I talk about the real overwhelming scientific evidence of global warming.

PM Howard wants us to pray for rain for all farmers of the Murray Darling Basin, because of the serious water problems.

The agenda for this thread should be about pushing for action on government "climate change" policies.

I just cannot believe a federal coalition government who says they have known about global warming for the past 10 years has now resorted to praying for rain. Where have they been, what planet are they living on?

The issues should be about how we adapt to and mitigate against, climate change. Inherent in the answers is government policy. Policies that really tackle all impacts of climate change on society, including an important food bowl of the nation . Why? Because make no mistake, global warming is going to effect everyone, somehow, somewhere, sometime - and it will cost.

How much? It depends on what we are prepared to pay.

Howard is now a climate change believer? I hope not for political expediency. Unfortunately, some with vested interests in "business as usual" think they will have too much to lose. So be it, they will end up losing. The smart ones are taking up the challenge, the wary ones are hedging their bets and the dumbnuts are living in the dark ages.

What do you think?

Davsav
What Do I think. Methinks your right but you should open a thread on global warming.

I would be "really happy" to post on it.

The farmer who sent the poem to me is just one of many.

The only thing a farmer will say to you he needs is water and tucker.

The Aussie Helpers for example do not take one cent out of donations and all their helpers work without pay.

There are a couple of churches that have broken trend and work with them.

You have the lady who suggested that each school adopt a farm and farm animals to sponser.

Sadly the Salvation Army have written to say they can not assist with water or stock feed from public donations.

So I guess because of that we must try to do what the farmers have asked and get as much 'practicle' help out to farmers as possible.


Dont reckon Clancy would figure too much on prayers instead of produce me self but I guess he was just someone who told it like it was without the bull.

I think Clancy might have been right pleased if you did that.

Davsav it might be a good start to you global warming thread too.
http://www.themeatrix.com/

Remember there are little things which are big things each and everyone of us can do.
When you get up in the morning ladies and gentleman of Australia please put out a bowl of water for our birds and wild life [ some place up high] and keep it filled.
Then perhaps make it your mishion to contact one farmer each month to say- Goday mate Can I do anything for ya? Of course he will so no mate shes right.
Thats when you know to get in your car and drive out a leave hay money for water or cash in the old mail box or milk can.

Yeh i reckon old Clancy might of liked that idea.


I am sure they are capable of whispering a word of prayer to God in private some time later.
Thats What methinks.

PALE - why don't you post as a real person? It may help your cause.

This thread is dead - do you understand why?

Others (if your still looking) - ALL farmers are suffering - you may well pay the price.

What are YOU going to do about it? Are you willing to support them, help pay the price?

Our leaders have failed us, regardless of the spin they put on it.

Now is the time for action, in your minds you know you have to do the right thing - JUST DO IT.

Davsav
This thread which was after a farmer set up to bring awareness to all Australians into the plight of our farmers.

What am I going to do about it? Well I am not going to pretend that a prayer is going to fix the problem thats for sure.

My name is Wendy Lewthwaite. I am trying to assist by reopening abattoirs throughout Australia.

The simply fact is if we want to ask the Government to faze out live exports we must have an alternative.

Considering that most farmers cant grow crops anymore those jobs in regional areas will come in handy for people to feed their familys.

I also work with RSPCA QLD to bring about changes to improve animal welfare.

Now the suggestion of each school adopting a farm seems like a good one.

Perhaps you might put your ideas up as to what you could do to help.

It will take many hands and hearts to help the farmers and animals.

hi all,

has anybody ever thought of having their own dam, and or
saved enormous tanks of water.... ?
or is there a similar solution

I dont know much about farming, but I just wondered....?

those grey water house tanks for suburbs are cool
JHH

Regional/rural properties have tanks to store rainwater; they may have dams, bores or rivers for their water supply as well.

If it doesn’t rain, or the rivers don’t flow – there is NO water – not even to flush the toilet, brush your teeth or water your pot plant – or irrigate/water YOUR food source.

The average water consumption in the city is ~ 240 litres per person per day.

The average water consumption in regional OZ is ~ 115 litres per person per day.

The average water consumption in rural OZ is ~ 50 litres per person per day, if you’re lucky.

JHH, every suburban house should have a rainwater tank – there are issues, but yeah, it’s cool.

In the cities, all reticulated water is treated to drinking water standards, and then you pour it down the sewers after the majority of it is used for industrial processes.

In the cities, water is cheap.

In the country, water is gold.

When carrots cost $20/kg because the OZ carrot farmer no longer exists and we have to import carrots from Canada (think of all the GHG emissions per kilo) – then will city people start to understand the gravity of the situation?

We have never faced such a complex problem on such a large scale as climate change. The physical, social, financial and environmental effects of climate change are becoming more evident everyday – and it will affect everybody.

We need real leaders with a real vision – you can do something about it. A prayer might help, but so too might be timely strategies and policies.

JHH – in the mean time, you can help, even if it’s finding out or learning more about farming – it will change your life.

thank you dav for the info

I meant storing water in the rain or flood times ?
and or a dam for shared big properties....to be filled in flood times..

re buying australian, I check....
I get the bananas marked australia.... much nicer thank you...
and I check all the others too....

our products are great, and the quality is extremely high,
I have found.... from everything from cheeses, to jams and honeys..

I wonder how much and if properties can make their own dams...?

thanks for the info

JHH

JHH
Farmers do that now; especially the very big farms with the very big money, but certainly not enough as they would like – because they need a lot of water and even lots more money.

Understand this though; the vast majority of farmers can’t do this because they are struggling to survive, they do not have the huge resources or capital behind them – and even if they did, they probably wouldn’t get the return on investment that they deserve.

Australia is the 2nd driest continent on the planet (Antarctica is drier because its water is locked up as ice). As the planet warms, more water is evaporated and falls as rain – but it is not falling where we need it, especially here in Australia. The climate is changing to a wetter north and much drier everywhere else.

Can we store, pipe or channel this flooding water in northern Australia? Yes, but the costs in dollars are huge and at the moment, not practical or indeed justifiable – this may change in the future.

We may have to shift our farming practices to where the water is – but this is very costly and disruptive – it would take many decades. We have to do something in the mean time, adapt at the local level with a view to adapting at the national level.

This is why negotiations are being had between State & Federal governments over a national water strategy – better late than never.

We also have to think again about the type of water intensive farms we do have, e.g. cotton – do we really need this industry now and if we do, can we do it better?

It has been suggested that we (individuals or groups) adopt a farm, this is a very good idea. Maybe Wendy or others can help in establishing this concept – particularly for people or groups living in the cities.
Cheers

JHH and Davsav

Happy to hear suggestions kicking off the Adopt a Farm School progect.
However- I would be loathed to have "any organisation" taking "one cent" in admin costs.
Perhaps a letter to Australia All over requesting they promote this idea.
What might work is if everybody could write out a list of farmers in need in their areas.
Later we could invite the kids of that school to camp out a couple of nights on the farm they helped save.
That was first suggested by my Sister Jan.

The Aussie helpers are the ONLY ones who are providing such a service for farmers and animals so I think we should all support them. They asked the Churches to help with stock feed and got knocked back.
http://www.aussiehelpers.org.au/
The Australian people have ALL said they are happy to pay more IF its going to the farmers.
If you have any ideas on how we can set this up so one hundred percent goes to farmers and animals I would be most grateful.

We would do as much as possible at no charge but it would take more than us.

JHH. Regarding water we need to re think our whole farming style.

I have just left a man who knows how to get water "and plenty" out of trees[especially mangroves etc] He spent half his life in ME and other places supplier water. [ I mean without power without anything!.
I hope to meet with this man next week and be able to share some of his amazing knowledge with you.
In the mean time you might like to view this>

http://www.halakindmeats.com/aussiehero.html

What farmers need is food and water for stock. Church Based organisations do not and tell us they can not provide this.
I would strongly urge you buy hay and have it sent to the farms direct.
If a farmers animals survive - So does his family and Animals are Gods creatures just like us.

Less paid prayers more "practicle" help- like produce please lord.

NOBODY SHOULD EXPECT TO GET PAID OR TAKE A PERCENTAGE FOR ADMIN

davsab, Do we need cotton? At the moment the cotton industry is down to 30% of "normal" production and without rain will be practically nothing next year. Price increases in food may even divert water earmarked for cotton to grow vegies etc.

Effectively cotton as an annual crop gives a high economic return when water is available. It isn't grown and doesn't need to be maintained when the water is scarce, unlike orchards and vineyards.

When we have average rainfall there are enough fruit and vegetables on the market and using cotton country for these crops will literally flood the market. When water supplies are low there is virtually no cotton anyway.

paleif, the only real shame is that you have used this poem for your own agenda and whilst chastising others for not sticking to commenting on "helping farmers" you still take some free kicks toward intensive farming. You are a little too frugal with the truth , especially with comments like "All diseases are caused by intensive farming" What absolute nonsense.

"Feedlots cause foot and mouth". Not in Australia, last case here was in 1872. Wasn't aware of 30,000 head feedlots in those days.

Why would I know whether or not pig producers use anti-biotics?

Why even mention Amanda Vanstone?

"The simply fact is if we want to ask the Government to faze out live exports we must have an alternative."

If the alternative proves as valuable as live exports then why would govt intervention be necessary. Won't supply and demand be adequate

rojo

Exactly my point - cotton farming requires a-lot-a-lot-a H2O.

Cotton farmers really do it tough when there ain't any.

We have to find a better way because cots are not top of the food chain.

And yes, I agree.

The poem was sent to me by a Farmer.

You dont mind if we do something a farmer asked us to do - Surley.?

Perhaps you might like to exchange your views with him if you like?

Tell him how awful he is asking us to put it up to try to help his fellow neighbours.

I prefer he never see your comments.

The blokes got enough on his mind.

We have never taken one cent of any donations and totally self fund along with RSPCA QLD
.
So I dont see how we are so shameful.

Its a lovely poem and I think it would do every Australian good to read it.

As for discusing intensive farmers it was not myself who first raised intensive farming- I simply replied with the "facts".

As Global Warming was mentioned. I pointed out Intensive cruelty is a major factor of Global Warming.

Why would I mention Amanda?- because somebody mentioned intensive pig farming.

Everybody now relates to Amanda as a intensive pig farmer - or share holder- Which ever you prefer.

Surley you saw the currents affairs and newspapers covering the story Australia wide after the wonderful work done by Animal liberation.

Everybody is talking now about Government reps being involved in such cruelty.

As for anti biotics- if every single Aussie doesnt know by now that these cruel places where they stuff animals in pens so small they cant stand or turn around must also stuff them with anti biotics they must be living on another plannet.

value adding and jobs are what any country looks for.
Thats why the countries overseas buy live animals in the first place.
Considering especially the drought it is shameful that WA have blocked people trying to open abattoirs there.
Did You know the only skilled workers not allowed into Australia are abattoir workers in WA.
Every other trade is fine.
Its pretty clear that they are blocking us from being able to compete which takes our rights away.
Perhaps you know of another poem you could post for the Aussie Farmers.

paleif,
Have I actually critisised the poem, or that you posted it? Absolutely not. My issue is when you sprout some lame comments about intensive farming and then try to hide behind the poem, and helping farmers, when anyone addresses those comments.

I am aware of Amanda's involvemnt in a piggery, I was asking why it is relevent with regards to this poem. Incidently you are the only one who has mentioned pigs in this thread.

And now you relate intensive cruelty with global warming! It's becoming hard to take you seriously.

.

davsab,
"cotton farming requires a-lot-a-lot-a H2O."

Depends what you compare it too. About the same as grapes, less than citrus and lucerne and on par with the average lawn.
But in reality does it matter how much water it uses if that water's return is maximised. The same amount of water would be used on other crops, not necessarily to the same financial benefit. The seed from the cotton is part of the food chain.

"Cotton farmers really do it tough when there ain't any."
Very true, just like graingrowers with no rain and graziers with no feed. There are few winners in such a severe drought.

http://www.themeatrix.com/

The poem is for the farmers.

We help the Real Farmers of Australia. How dare you suggest we support the corp lot with their cruelty.

Thats NOT farming and they are not! farmers.

What a huge insult to every real farmer in this country.

Somebody mentioned global warming and green house gasses. I can hardley respond to that without mentioning intensive farming now can I.
I cant believe that you dont know that intensive farming creates hugegreen house gasses.

Intensive farming has slipped under the carpet here. Its a big thing in the USA. Common knowlege with its citz that its a huge cause of gaases.
Actually I was sure you were aware of that because wasnt it yourself who posted on green hoses gasses on another thread./

Possibly it was another persons name I read.

Its good however that you have raised this very important issue.

The best thing to do would be to start a new thread tittled -Does Instensive Farming Cause Green House Gasses?


Its awful when you think of those poor animals that are not even able to stand.

Lying in their urine not even able to stand.

Have you seen some of the pictures with them biting, biting into the metal bars screaming and shaking at the bars to get out.

Animals "are" intellergent.

Actually that farmer that sent me the poem mentioned intensive pig farming .

Great bloke. Amoungst all his own problems when I told him the work we did he said- mate when I get back on me feet the missus and I will give you a hand.

You see our work is to educate the people about animal cruelty.

It doesnt matter which animal or where.

God doesnt give restrictions.

By the way its against forum rules to use more than one identity.

For those good people who wanted to help "REAL FARMERS "- what did you think about my sisters idea of asking Australia All Over to kick off the Schools adopt a farm progect?

paleif,

"We help the Real Farmers of Australia. How dare you suggest we support the corp lot with their cruelty."
Taking your comprehension skills into account even I don't see how you come up with this one.

I'm also perplexed as to why you think I post under other names. I have no reason to do so, and consequently don't. I recall you saying something like this before. Are you suprised more than one person questions your agenda?

You are right, I have a general understanding of global warming and know methane is a greenhouse gas, some 20 times more potent than CO2. What we don't hear about is the concentration of CH4(methane) is about 1000 times less than CO2 in our atmosphere.

It is the logic behind linking intensive farming to GW that irritates most. If demand dictates a certain number of say cattle for meat or milk production, why does it matter whether they are intensively farmed. The same number of animals is required free range or intensive. They all burp, flatulate and defeacate.

You may also be aware that, particularly in Europe, intensive farms are harnessing these gases for energy production. This isn't as easy in the open. Wouldn't you think that is a environmental positive?

Rojo

I think you should stop complaining about a group of Australian cits working to help Animals.

I dont hear you offering to help farmers. Four of our people have just retuned from working twenty two hours straight! - Without pay- and supplying hay and water to farmers- supplied from their own donations.

What are you! doing to help farmers?


I also think you had best turn your TV on and watch about bird flue.
Guess where `that ` comes from??

When ever, you put animals in small cages in unhealthy conditions you have new virus.

Because of the huge amount of anti biotics pumped into intensive farming animals world wide the virus builds up to the point nothing stops it.


We know it comes from people who keep poultry in tiny cages often just in their back yards.
We know it comes from birds being kept in large poultry intensive farming.'
We know other virus also comes from other animal intensive farming.

I am not even going to bother to comment on your ignorance [ or pretend ignorance] of gasses created by intensive farming.
I will open a thread regarding intensive animal farming later- but for now we want to leave this thread for people to suggest ways of helping farmers.
To others, I will say the AICOL School has offered to kick off the adopt a farm school project.
Its a start and we will contact Australia All Over.
If you know a farmer in need of feed or water for stock please contact us.
Perhaps everybody could consider contacting one local shire council in regional areas.
A thread could be set up to register anybody wanting to help.
I think other poems would be welcome.
Most people seem to really relate to the one the lucerne farmer sent us.

Pale, I commend you for your suggestions in offering ideas to assist farmers. Fact is, the writing's on the wall. Agricultural activities must change quickly. Michael Paton, on OLO gives an excellent account of how our forefathers brought unsustainable farming practices to this arid land. The results are now evident and the farmers are suffering. The consumers are next in line!

Those farmers who lobby for an urgent national plan for a drastic re-assessment of current practices will be better off. Our environment can no longer withstand the devastation of salinity, desertification, clearing, chemicals, pesticides and herbicides and the degradation of land to grow crops to feed an overload of commercialised animals.

Many of us accept that the inhumane treatment of farmed avian species in other countries has resulted in the outbreaks of bird flu and SBS warned only last night of the real prospect of a pandemic.

4000 wild birds tested for the virus in the UK since last year revealed no trace of the bird flu.

We need to consider whether we can continue farming sheep and beef in the current manner. Who wants to eat unhealthy animals which have struggled to survive on so little water and depleted grazing lands? And who wants to continue eating intensively farmed pigs, force-fed toxic chemicals to fatten them for market?

The idea of moving the food bowl to new lands in this country, where water is more plentiful, has some appeal, providing more sustainable practices are put in place. Is consideration be given to the building of infrastructures to pipe water to drought stricken farming areas?

However, offering short-term solutions to maintain the status quo will not resolve the critical situation in the long-term.

We have learnt the hard way that it is extremely imprudent to continue arguing with Mother Nature who will always have the last say.

Note: Methane's effect on global warming is purported to be 21 times stronger than CO2. The lesser volume of atmospheric methane compared to CO2 is hardly relevant.

Dickie I beleive your interpretation of methane concentration to be incorrect. On the same ppm basis methane is 21 times more potent than CO2. Our atmosphere does not have similar ppm concentrations.

Carbon emitted as methane will have a 21 times greater effect than as CO2 and so it definately is an issue. It will take a lot more methane to have the same effect as increasing CO2 by 50% as has occured over the last few hundred years.

If paleif reads my posts properly, I am not denying animal methane emissions, but that free range animals donate gas too. Since the required number of animals will be the same then the emissions will be so too. She finds it easier to attack than answer hard questions.

paleif - nobody's criticising the poem - we're all agreed here that farmers are doing it tough.

I know plenty of people who would be offended by this arbitrary line you have drawn as to who the 'real' farmers are, and who aren't.

Apparently, the only 'real' ones are the ones who fit your idealised farming image. The real farmers I know are practical people who do what it takes to support their families.

I ask you - if a farmer is struggling to pay his debts, and to keep his family supported he establishes a feedlot, would you criticise him? Would you tell him he's not a real farmer? Would you insult him and tell him he should be ashamed?

I'm sorry, but you can't just dismiss arguments put forth and insult people, and try to hold some moral high ground by telling others to be ashamed. I'm looking at the practical issues and doing what I can in the country - no offence, but who are you to tell farmers they aren't 'real' farmers?

You only support them when they fit your agenda. Sure feedlots are unpleasant. But I'm not willing to pass such harsh judgment on farmers (and yes, they are farmers and it's not up to you to tell them otherwise) who are doing what they have to do to support their families in drought.

Reality tends to be a little less black and white than the arbitrary lines you have drawn.

Turnrightleft
Fair Enough OK
Your Question Answered.
No I would try to talk him into creek feeding instead.
If he didnt have the land I would try to get him some at NO cost to him.
If he then said "but that is more labour intensive" to creek feed instead of intensive- I would offer to supply staff for the first year.
We would also introduce him to people very interested in his Free Green Meats.
He would be offered a better price for his stock with a steady chain of supply. This would of course eventually make up for the extra wages - and some. The bottom Line for farmers is a good price at a steady rate.

Later when he was on his feet I would hope he might make a small donation towards helping else in the same way he had been helped.

He may then once happy with these contacts like to go further.
He might like to become a farmer supplier exporter.
If so arrangments could be made to either re-open or establish new abattoirs on his land or close by.

Accreditations infrastructure would be paid by others. He would be encouraged to ask other farmers to get involved.

There of course is a fair bit involved but thats your question answered in brief.

Um ... may I suggest the antagonists share contact details and work together in resolving the real issues - you might even find you have something in common.

This thread is dead for others - let's move on.

Davsav
Hi
Well its no more dead than many others. I agree with you about making contact and getting things going, absolutley.
So I am inviting everybody to email me at info@halakindmeats.com
Any more comments on the schools and contacting Australia All Over?
Any other ideas from others
How about Some old bush poems. I will post a few more in the next week.

http://www.halakindmeats.com/

http://www.freerangefarmers.com/freerange/pigs_vic.html