More even than the numbers who buy the paper it is advertising that keeps them in print.
We are seeing the end of NewsWeek, 80 years of informative Journalism.
Once on my must have list even TV is suffering because of lack of advertising.
Changes are coming, what will they be.
Trying not to be biased but I think many papers are not going to be around in the next 15 years some sooner.
It is my view, an honestly held one, news papers are over all far less quality items than even 30 years ago.
That given the chance on line reporting is the future.
At a cost but anyone producing such a paper, if it brings enough readers/advertisers, it may not need a charge.
So what will the near future look like for the print media.

Belly, I am afraid it's simply another case of tech taking over.

Just consider for a moment, how many jobs are involved in producing all those papers.

There's the tree harvesters, the truck drivers/loaders, the mill workers, the store workers and distribution staff, that's just to make the paper.

Then you have all those involved in the printing process.

We then have those involved in the distribution, selling and delivering of papers.

The number of jobs at risk is mind blowing when you think of it, and most of these can not be replaced.

Although I am young than you, I am 52, we have both seen a huge shift in our industries and related workforce, and while many changes have been good, many are very worrying.

We often receive e-bills with the notation, 'consider the environment before printing this statement', but, no one considers the jobs at risk.

No good having the healthiest planet if no one can afford to live.

We are shooting ourselves in the foot I recon.

You're missing something in your reasoning, rehctub. All those jobs have been replaced by an industry than never existed when newspapers were popular, the computer industry. Think of all the mining to extract the raw materials that go into every computer and tablet. All the toolmaking, engineering to manufacture them, the lines men to run the cables across the globe, the IT staff to run the servers, the programers to write the software, the web developers that create and maintain the websites you visit everyday.

The best part about their demise is: Before the news was controlled by a handful of a-holes with their own agenda to push. Now at least for a while, anyone with a computer can have their own say and report the truth. They can't die soon enough from my point of view!

The next battle will be keeping stinking politicians off our internet and making more rules to shut down anyone with an opinion they don't like! People like Comrade-Conroy, Obumma and the Red-Witch need to be fought at every opportunity.

I think we can blame universities, their journalism courses, & perhaps the type of people they attract. In the days of the old copy boy system, most journalists had some idea of how the world worked, but there are very few of them left. Today we have people, often girls, trained to string a few words together, but who can't understand what they are writing about.

Due to reporters who just had no idea, but thought they knew everything, I no longer buy any newspapers. Today most of these "reporters" are now captive of the press release, & produce misinformation as happily as truth.

I have given up radio, particularly the ABC, where one presenter continually stated, "I didn't know that", or "that can't be right" about the most simple, common knowledge things. Not understanding things is the norm today. With these dills in the media, there is no point in listening.

Then TV. The stations lobbied for years for more spectrum, & got it. Now they find they don't get enough advertising revenue to buy anything worth while to fill those hours. What is on is so bad, I find my TV is turned off more than it was when there was much less choice.

Even worse, overexposure of some programs has destroyed their appeal. I used to really enjoy Top Gear, when poor reception meant we only got it once or twice a month on SBS. After a commercial channel bought up old material, & ran it nightly, I no longer ever watch any of it. What was fun occasionally became extremely boring as nightly fare.

We see double hours of many programs today, with this excess exposure soon killing the program. One station has 3 consecutive hours of forensics. Just how many test tubes can any audience suffer, before the off switch becomes the most attractive fitting in the room.

Well it is my view Raw Mustard comes closest but not quite.
Rupert Murdock, what ever you think of him, has shown us the change.
And while he has always been a paper man, and a very good one, in terms of making money.
He long ago lead in investing in other media forms.
Unfortunately, for the very same reason, lack of viewer's leading to lack of advertising, that too is in some trouble.
I think we will read our papers on line on the way to work via our phones.
And that only the strongest will remain in print, and very few of them.
You can view a version of your favorite paper on line now, for free.
And it will tell you all the news.
It must, or others will, equaling less readers less adds.
Google has grown by its news as much as anything.
Maybe the future is one all papers low priced on line news site as well as individual ones.
Change is assured, in the stuggleing TV net works to.

You're right raw mustard, except, these jobs you speak of have already been created, while news papers are still a way of everyday life.

I'm talking about the future, not the past.

*You're right raw mustard, except, these jobs you speak of have already been created *

Not really Rehctub, because in terms of the internet and marketing,
we have only scratched the surface in Australia. Only now under duress, kicking and screaming, are Australian retailers getting serious about online marketing. Overseas marketing is finally bringing them out of their deep sleep, as they simply had it too good
for too long.

So if your kids learn to be computer programmers/IT workers, their
future is assured.

Newspapers are here to stay:

There will always be the need to polish shoes, check the oil level in the car, mulch trees and a range of cleaning jobs around the house.

Many other things we can differ about, but the decline in print media,
and the changes in other forms are here, well under way.
And NOTHING to do with the numbers in their work places, although that decline is a symptom, it is not a cause.
Y will need to look for other polishing cloths.
A symptom?, please this is not about politics!
That New Zealand journalist, now working for is it channel nine?
He is the future of journalism.
Folk want to see/read the a current affair/investigative stuff.
That is what drives the scandal magazines.
And, like bait on the fish hook if enough of it is spread around, with a little burly, we will come.
Even Rupert Murdock, late in life, has taken to twitter, maybe not his wisest act.
We should in fact not let Australian politics blind us to worldwide events.
I think Raw Mustard has touched the future.
Governments over intervention, here on the net, is a very real danger.
Already, sometimes for good reason, and even more often to protect those who seem unable to do it themselves, we see intervention.
Not costs but delivering a product that brings enough users to bring advertising drives the change

Yabby, you sill never convince me that online retailing will replace jobs lost in regular retail.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/news/15148704/teen-web-entrepreneur-makes-mark/

Rehctub, perhaps you are like many of our generation, ie simply too
old to understand what is happening around you and the potential
involved.

Meantime above is an example of a Perth kid who understood
that potential.

You are getting old and set in your ways, mate :)

Sorry Rechtub yabby is right.
Bloke I can and have bought a big screen TV for half price.
Buy radio electronic parts from America for a third.
The Sydney morning Herald, once sold pages of advertisements and held the market, its shares are less than 40 cents now.
Millionaires like Harvey Normans owner know, and fear the change.
Much opinion we see, like it or not, comes from a black hole of no understanding.
Right now face book twitter and more are growing, sales of portable commuters phones, is one in every six humans have one.
A stunning figure.
But it will grow.
Current moves, user pays, to charge for on line news services, are not growing fast enough to suit the Murdock's, but will, as soon as the free stuff is stopped.
In less than 10 years we have seen only a tenth of the changes we will in the next ten.
Much of the anti NBN comment, the very thought it is so we can play games faster,is so uniformed it is funny.
No more peddle radio ,out back shopping is on line now ,then?

Rehctub, let me give you an example of the sort of difference that
the net can make. I saw an interview the other day with a twenty
something girl in the US, who in her city set up a website, where
people can go to do stuff or have stuff done. Only condition, they
need a clean police record. You want your garden tidied, house
cleaned, shopping done, drycleaning picked up, gutters cleaned,
any frigging thing really that you can imagine. People bid to do it.

Now lets say you unemployed, part time employed, married and home
but want a few hours work and some cash. You bid for what you'd like
to do, to fill in your spare time.

She is now spreading her idea to a dozen US cities as its taken off,
backed by some venture capital.

Now let me tell you, at 20, to make a few extra bob, I would have
been on that website like a flash. At 60, with a crook back, I would
hire people to do stuff around here tomorrow, if I could find them.

How much economic activity do you think that just that website can
create?

On a related issue. I used to buy all my books through a major local chain but in recent years have gone over to Amazon. It is so much more convenient being able to read/compare the reviews, scan related texts: “people who bought this also bought that”. Be given the option of Kindle or paper formats.And have it all delivered to your home.

From my perspective Amazon kills traditional book stores–its hard to believe that some years ago Amazon's business model was questioned and it's prospects deemed poor.

"""
Current moves, user pays, to charge for on line news services, are not growing fast enough to suit the Murdock's, but will, as soon as the free stuff is stopped.
"""

And these are the people that bribe corrupt politicians to bring in oppressive rules so that they may profit while we lose!(stop the free stuff) And the journos are right behind them because they pay their wages. Trust none of them, they're all low lifes that will do anything to shut down independent free thinkers who now because of the internet can voice their opinions and have their opinions reviewed and questioned by their peers. Just like happens on this forum every single day!

"""
You're right raw mustard, except, these jobs you speak of have already been created, while news papers are still a way of everyday life.
"""

It was the same when fridges were invented. As more people stopped getting their ice from the ice works, the ice workers went to work for the fridge makers. The problem today in this country is the fridge makers are in another country. And you can't work in most fields without a piece of paper to say you can; however getting that piece of paper can be next to impossible or unaffordable these days, bureaucracy has seen to that!

The other problem these days is choosing a new field to re-educate into that won't disappear or be shipped off to another country before you finish your re-education.
As Yabby pointed out:
"""
So if your kids learn to be computer programmers/IT workers, their
future is assured.
""
Not so fast, Yabby! Most of those jobs have gone to India. So, sure your kids future is taken care of as long as they want to work in India for a dollar a day!

A word of caution, buy only from folk you know are true honest traders on line.
Do not bring up they all can not be trusted,it will not wash.
Raw Mustard, think I went too far there, in fact just as Google is free now, advertisers pay for us, the biggest will always be so.
I agree we must confront the self interest of politicians right down to those wanting to sell us some thing.
In starting the thread I saw no doubt change has come, and will continue.
Here local not suburban villages are linked to activity centers, and served better than any local news paper ever has.
In fact locals, suffering from falling sales/advertising are struggling to get readership.
I know, out there now, some have thoughts on what the changes will be.
Some like yabby,s link, will become very rich by using those ideas.

*Most of those jobs have gone to India.*

Not really, Rawmustard. When they ring you from a call centre in
India, do you rush to buy?

I just had a quick look on Seek. 13500 IT jobs in Sydney alone,
waiting to be filled. Another 9500 jobs in Melbourne. When our slack
Australian retailers eventually get off their arses, they might be
forced to go to India, as city based Australians would seemingly
rather flip burgers then become qualified in something useful.

It's not about buying, Yabby. It's about consultants in Australia already offering IT services from India for a fraction of the cost of employing people here and the Indians are damn good at it. Not that I hold that against them mind you, good luck to them. I remember reading 80% of Windows OS is now programmed in India. Hmm, maybe that's why it's so shite hehehe :~P

As soon as bandwidth in Oz is improved via the NBN, you watch jobs and services disappear from here. There's absolutely no reason to run your IT dept from Australia now or have your website developed here if you know what you're doing. Unix/Linux is 100% administrable remotely. As too is programming.

I've witnessed first hand peoples lives destroyed in one month as the Chinese copy a program that took years to develop and offer it up for a fraction of the cost it took to do it for here.

As time goes on and bandwidth and technology improve, those remaining jobs will go overseas as well, it's already happening!

*if you know what you're doing.*

Well there is the rub, Rawmustard. Most non IT people don't have
a clue what they are doing, when it comes to IT. I was quite shocked
about 4 years ago, when a friend tried to get somebody local to
put a few webpages online for him and sell some stuff online. The
quotes were ridiculous!

So now just about every medium to large company, Govt dept etc, has
an IT dept and some people local. When the computers stop, the whole
company stops and ringing India is not going to fix it. Yes some
stuff can be subbed out to India etc, but as the net increases, that
still means a huge amount of jobs here. Just look at companies like
Atlassian, ARG etc and what they are doing here, with local people.

Or even local designing locally and flogging stuff on the small time,
like the Wally mob. The thing is, the net allows innovation to
flourish.

Yabby, not sure how IR works in the US, but here, unless you sign people up, it's simply not worth the hassle to employ for the odd job, unless of cause if you pay cash, which is often the case, but it's also illegal.

Even if you employ a person as a contractor, in most cases you have to pay super, as the law states that if you give clear instruction as to what has to be done, they are deemed not to be a contractor.

Now for this who think online provides the same number of jobs, pull the other one I say, as having been in retail all my life, there are huge costs savings in online selling. HUGE!

Plus there is far less waste, something else that creates Jonson, dealing with waste.

*Now for this who think online provides the same number of jobs, pull the other one I say, as having been in retail all my life, there are huge costs savings in online selling. HUGE!*

So Rehctub, what do you think that people do with the money that they
save?

""" The quotes were ridiculous! """

Perhaps the quotes reflect the cost of living in Australian cities, Yabby?

""" has an IT dept and some people local. """

That's the point though, Yabby. "Some people local". IOW, the heavy lifting is done in another country and we have a few burger flippers here to turn the power on and off. Hardly a great career doncha think?

""" The thing is, the net allows innovation to flourish. """

No argument there, Yabby, it's a great thing for sure. But in what country is the majority of employment going to occur as a result of all this new innovation? So far India and China have seen the most benefit due to running costs. Where's your pad come from, Yabby? and where was it programmed?

*Perhaps the quotes reflect the cost of living in Australian cities, Yabby?*

More like the Aussie way of doing business, Rawmustard. Ooh a customer, time to screw him for every cent! There is no need to charge thousands of dollars a page, for what even I could do some years ago, with a simple programme.

*the heavy lifting is done in another country *

Well clearly not, or there would not be 13'500 vacant IT jobs in Sydney alone on Seek, never mind the many who already have a job in
IT. Aussies clearly can't be bothered, when its easier to flip burgers.

*Where's your pad come from, Yabby? and where was it programmed?*

The Economist actually did an analysis on that. Most of the profits
from an Ipad, goes to the Americans. Parts come from Japan, USA,
Korea, Germany, Taiwan, assembly is in China. Software is American. Apps
are written around the world, wherever there is talent. Angry Birds
was written in Finland and earned them 600 million $. Even you can
create an App and market it through the Apple website.

For every negative you can find, as in the few posts above more positives exist.
Rechtub if it was not snags you sold,you may well have used the net, and even an over seas call service.
Have we the right to say no one should, how would the affect world trade, our business out comes? if we put fences up would others?
Australian firms, not all some, actually promise you will be answered by an Australian, as a sales point.
I note your admit-ion it is less costly to trade on line,this answers your own question to yabby, yes newspapers are in decline.
Yabby,s work site is working, just as I highlighted world ownership of I pads and portable computers, unbelievable but true numbers.
Australia is said to have a black market[cash]economy in the many billions.
And only this weekend, news that sale of second hand goods is in the same range, mostly on the net.
By the way, using the net a whole cut up carcase, beef, or sheep, can arrive at my door in 24 hours.

'or every negative you can find, as in the few posts above more positives exist.'

Good stuff Belly.

I see a few scared old men here.

H thanks, I am an olds bloke, no idea why but at 67 I feel half that.
Living on my own for the near last 30 haws kept me young.
I have faith in the young, a great deal.
They say a gene exists that leads to grumpy old men,our last years are not time to spend being unhappy.
Just saw face books profits 286 million!think I read in in a British paper so not sure if its dollars or pounds.
Shame more teaching for oldy,s to use the net is not available, I am bringing a few on, but need the training myself.
Bringing on? I mean teaching to e mail read papers and research, that hooks them the rest follows.
Print media?
Some out back dunny,s will need a different paper.

Writing in the sand has had it's day.

Writing on stone has had it's day.

Writing on paper has almost had it's day.

Guess what?

Writing on the internet WILL eventually have had it's day too.

The "real" question is .... What will replace the internet?

My prediction is that within 50 years the internet will be considered ancient, inefficient and a past technology .... interesting only from an historical perspective.

Within 200 years I predict we will be writing only within our brains, and we will be communicating with anyone, anywhere, anytime via direct brain to brain technology. Our brains will be initially implanted, and eventually biologically altered, to enable this. Communication "machines", and old time carrier methods, will be a thing of the past, relegated to ancient history.

I'm 81 years old and run my own small IT business .... BRING ON THE FUTURE.

DP here in our history in OLO we can, without digging too much find a fear like rejection of the NBN and change in general
I offer this link
http://www.smh.com.au/business/intelligent-investor/why-nbn-will-kill-the-tv-networks-20121022-280vn.html
To support the threads intended path, print media is in crisis.
And to highlight why.
You and I will not see what comes after the net, but we have seen the whole thing grow from the 486 to todays and we can smell tomorrows changes but not know, even guess what it will be.
I would have one hope, that those who do not share my views here in this thread read the link.
Information is my drug, I crave it.
But so many seem to sit on opinion,unwilling to learn and growth, in our final years, middle age was surely not later than 45? we prosper by growing still.

Diamond Pete

<<Within 200 years I predict we will be writing only within our brains>>
But wouldn’t that put Green voters at a distinct disadvantage –they’d be left out of most conversations.
I can see the Greens of 2080 campaigning hard for subsidized brain implants to bring their voters up to par with the rest of the community.

On a serious note though, you surprise me on two counts. I can’t believe you are 81. I had you pigeon holed as a 40 something,
And I agree almost entirely with your take on the communications revolution.

With satellite dishes you can, even today, tune into any number of oversea TV or radio channels. And you can use that to update yourself with science & technology, or , you can watch some Mullah rave on about the joys of Islam. It will be a great waste and pity if the NBN's primary usage was more downloads of the latest Psy hip hop or missed episodes of Modern Family.

Dear DiamondPete,

<<Within 200 years I predict we will be writing only within our brains, and we will be communicating with anyone, anywhere, anytime via direct brain to brain technology.>>

Good for you, being 81 you will not need to suffer this. Me too fortunately I won't be around to witness.

Assuming those living 200 years hence will have faster an easier ways to communicate, will they also have that much more to say, that much wisdom to share? or will they simply be able to disturb others even more with their babbling nonsense?

Remember that when communicating, at least half the time you are on the receiving side!

The slight effort required when putting things on a physical form such as paper, means that you need to think first, to consider WHAT you are going to write, is it worthwhile, whether you really mean it and hopefully also try to check and make sure that it will not hurt the reader.

Can't you see that this whole technology thing is not about comfort but all about survival, trying to squeeze even more billions of humans on this tiny planet - and if in the process they will not even remain as much human, as you suggest brain implants and/or biology-altering drugs, don't you wonder what is the point of this exercise?

I would doubt the greens will exist in 200 years, hopefully we will all be conservation minded long before that.
2FC Sydney,s first Radio station, few know it was the call sign of a ham radio/wireless experimenter.
From such came radio TV and in no small part the whole computer scene.
I do not fear change, not in this area, we already are being lead and controlled not by tec-knowledgy.
The thought we should retreat into grass hut villages is quite fun,and silly.
We now live our longer lives because of the better health outcomes we gain from that tec-knowledgy
Fear of the future some times come from those who know they will not be there.

I dropped the pen[key board] the instant the presidential debate started.
Formed my view who had won.
At the half way point of my life would have had to wait till tomorrow morning to find out who others thought had won.
Not long ago finished reading, on line American opinion .
Seems Obarma two out of three.
Evidence print media can not keep up with the new media.
Still a close race over their,I remain concerned, want Democrats not another GWB.

I will miss reading a paper rag should they ever cease to exist, but like most things we all adjust to changing technologies and I find myself reading more online as well as my daily paper subscription. There is just more information out there. Can there be too much information? Especially if much of it is noise rather than substance.

The problem with mainstream media in some respect is the idea that journalists are under pressure to make copy within smaller timeframes and good journalism is reducing. There is a tendency for some journos to seem themselves as insiders of a secret and exclusive group (read self-important and secretive) and many won't risk that membership for strong investigative reporting, fact checking and good research.

Pelican I agree, with every thought.
A difference exists in what I see as investigative Journalism and the flaming headlines of todays so called reporters.
Often more thought is going in to headlines [often not truly about the story than the story.
But because some still believe in Wrestling, and things like the national inquirer, these type of papers will continue.
Rags like anything Murdock own,s will shrink but still be around.
The problem with that stable is its readership do not seem to transfer to the web, yet.
I think we will see more go than stay but billionaires will be made on the web from very little start up funds.