With the big issues now off the agenda, driven from the scene by the media, particularly in the western world,

I lived to witness for example, sales processes deteriorate from sales by informing the customer, too sales reliant upon the customer not being informed.

I have watched customer service deteriorate too a mere surface response instead of an intention understood by all to be beneficial.

I watched the treatment of hardworking loyal employees by employers deteriorate to an exploitive relationship, instead of a mutually beneficial one.

I have observed verbal communication skills deteriorate from conversations and consultations, too verbal jousts with the object being professional blame deflection, instead of problem solving, in a generation.

I have suffered the separation between the cost of something and what a consumer is expected to pay for it.

I have tally-ed the cost of increasing control for the wealthy and powerful, against the continuing abrogation of the rights and freedoms of the citizen in my lifetime and have decided , that it ("the future") won't be my cup of tea. Even in our once wonderful land.

This has all happened in a mere 15 years or so. It's kiss your a#se goodbye stuff for mine on all sorts of levels. What do you think ?.

Life is wonderful.

You really need to smell the roses and consider how lucky you are.

Travel.

Get some perspective.

If you have a loved one or a family, tell them how much you love them.

Enjoy a hot shower, something we take for granted, that so many never have, and consider you are one of the luckiest people in the world.

Indulge your senses, heighten them with drugs, luxuriate in philosophy and pontification, pay $7.95 and hold 32GB in your hand, videophone someone in Japan, google, taste the culinary delights of different cultures, down shots of Gletscher Eis, watch the Big Lebowski, and marvel at the angelic face of your favorite actress.

There are an infinite list of joys, simple joys, and when you die, you wont really be too worried about such trivialities.

I agree Houelle that there are many wonders and distractions for us all and I am a willing participant in all that, but this post is not about me.

It's about our changing attitudes, and my case the comparative view that age allows provides me with insight into the things we have lost, that someone not having lived in earlier times could not possibly understand or perceive.

In fact Houelle, your topic shift towards me is a prime example of the blame deflecting type of conversation that has now become the norm.

e.g I have this view because "I don't get out enough", "I don't tell my family I love them enough",I haven't held 32GB in my hand (as we descend into trivial achievement), all of which is inaccurate, personal, and off topic.

You have nothing it seems to discuss re ethics attitudes or generational change.

Well I don't think my perspective tonight is going to do it for you either, thinker 2.

I sat down earlier tonight with my eleven year-old son and we watched a chef called Po (from Australia) visit Cambodia. She went to look at the work of Scott Neeson and his organisation CCF who work with children who inhabit an area once surrounded by a huge rubbish dump...I mean the rubbish dump was their sustenance.

I know this all sounds rather cliche, but I was really uplifted. These kids are still extremely poor and vulnerable, but they have a school and they are fed and clothed. My son was visibly shocked as he realised how these kids had lived - and still live beyond the school day. He watched as a few children emerged all bathed and dressed in "new second-hand clothes", their hair brushed and a backpack set upon their shoulders. We couldn't help but feel that this is "what it's all about".

Anyway, the main thing I noticed was the absolute gratitude that radiated from everyone, the sheer kindness with which people treated each other. It made me smile, because these people are so humble. The young women who were shepherding the younger children had spent their younger years fossicking on the rubbish tip, until this fellow came and began to help them get the community together.

I know what you're trying to say in your post, that the way we treat each other has deteriorated - perhaps because we have too much.

Perhaps we don't know how to be humble anymore.

Come on smile.
Just 12 years ago we had work choices, now even those who over looked its implementation say it was wrong.
We fight carbon pollution and plan a disability scheme.
We saw a landing on Mars that is still brilliant.
Find a date in history, any one.
Then look at it in 20 years, we are going ok warts and all.

I recently have had two very positive experiences with sales people.
They knew their job, they were helpful and were able to find what
I was seeking quickly and sorted out my misunderstanding on a detail.
One was at Myers and the other was in K-Mart.

Things are not as bad as many believe.

T2, customer service has ,deteriated, partially as a result of Retail pressures.

Consumers increased demand for the best deal is one, as the conversion rate of customer enquiry To a sale has taken a dive, as so many today do so much research and cost comparisons prior to buying, much of which involves unpaid service (from an employers view) which after a while gets quite frustrating.

Add to this the huge increase in online sales, and growing, and whamo, we pushed for a better PRICE and we don't like the consequences.

While most involved In in retail, myself included, saw this coming, all the warnings were ignored.

People have to understand, that for every action, there is a reaction.

As for employer/employee relationships, I have no doubt that is a result of the likes of union demands and government policies, the likes of unfair dismissal.

You see, to catch the bad guy, you must also wreck perfectly good working relationships between the good guys.

Again, a reaction to an action.

I see there is a review of UFD laws, and about time I say.

As part, some suggestions are that any cases must be lodged within 21 day of the dismissal and, if found to be a witch hunt, as if often the case, costs can be awarded to the unfairly treated employer.

ABOUT TIME.

The original contributor has pointed to but just a few of the present symptoms of a very sick global society, one in which there are many indicators of decline. But in my opinion they merely describe symptoms of a much more serious malaise, and that is the increasing bankruptcy and inadequacy of the present world order to meet the needs of the time and of humanity as a whole. It is based on a system of division, disunity, prejudices and limited allegiances, at a time when we can see a new holistic global society emerging. But as there is increasing decline and obsolescence on the one hand, there is clear evidence of the emergence of a new and much more united system on the other, its just that the media concentrates mainly on the former. You have to get with the positive movement of the times and you start to see things in a completely different and much more positive light. There is much hope.

' that someone not having lived in earlier times could not possibly understand or perceive.'

You're not being ageist now are you thinker?

Ah, the good ol' days! When sport was sport.

'With the big issues now off the agenda, driven from the scene by the media, particularly in the western world'

We have more information than ever before, but we are not spoon fed like we once were. If you want to find out about something you have so many more tools available than you once did. Were the bastions of old media any more honest in years gone by?

'I have suffered the separation between the cost of something and what a consumer is expected to pay for it.'

Only if you refuse to shop online.

'I have watched customer service deteriorate too a mere surface response instead of an intention understood by all to be beneficial. '

Again, internet. You can get the specs of any product in a second, at your leisure. You can read hundreds of reviews, from those in the industry and from those who are using the product.

'I watched the treatment of hardworking loyal employees by employers deteriorate to an exploitive relationship, instead of a mutually beneficial one. '

Oh, so there was never a need for workers to unionise in the good old days?

All I can say is you take the good with the bad. We have also lost a lot of bad things. Things change for better and worse.

'Things are not as bad as many believe.'

They are what you make of them Bazz.

Hello there THINKER 2...

Em, as they say, '...life's a bitch 'n then you die...'. I wonder if there's any truth in that statement ?

I (personally) believe it's very true. Over my lifetime I've seen so much injustice, and hurt occasioned too, so many people who least deserve it.

How many times have I heard '...if only I/we could get a break...'? Yet, we've all witnessed over and over, people who least deserve it, 'get that break' !

Then, what do we mere mortals really know, what's in the heart and mind of those who get that break ? The 'break' that we don't believe is either justified or morally correct ?

My closest friend, a man I loved like a brother, survived some of the heaviest contacts near the villages of Long Dieu and Dat Do during the time of 'Coral'. We lost 9, with nearly 30 odd wounded during Coral. We survived Vietnam, repatriated back home, and generally made a good life for himself and his kids ?

Then the miserable bastard, had a couple of bad headaches, got himself a malignant Brain Tumour (he'd do anything for attention!) and died 11 weeks after diagnosis. He had no appreciation of how I felt. Both of us Veterans, and he left me. No, David Frank R.....s wasn't the victim. I was ! You see, the dead know nothing.

My point is, life is unpredictable. None of us know what's around the corner. And, it's not a dress-rehearsal either. So, don't worry about tomorrow or yesterday, merely live for the moment and 'enjoy' whatever life throws at you.

Count your 'blessings' THINKER 2, we've all got 'em. Even though they tend to be a bit overshowed by our negative thoughts and daily occurances. I'm now seventy, so I value each and everyday, I sincerely hope you do to. Remember, try to 'value add' to each of your days, it does work...truely.

Take care - THINKER 2.

I think the nature of an analytical mind leads to negativity. An analytical mind wants to solve problems, so it looks for problems, so much so that all it sees is problems.

I agree, Houellie.

I'm prone. as you may have noted, to over analyse. But I'm not particularly prone to depression. I do occasionally take a dive, but seem to bounce back within twenty-four hours (which I'm quite pleased about)

My saving grace, as it turns out, was a particularly lean childhood with an alcoholic gambling father. I've lived in a very crappy three-room flatette, with no sink, people always chasing dad for monies owing, 10 changes of school, etc - no jumper or shoes or decent blanket in winter, hands covered in chilblains, etc. I looked like the waif that I was...

But, jeez, now I feel like millionaire - so fortunate.

That always helps me when I'm feeling hard done by.

Good afternoon to you POIROT...

Apropos your last comment. I just wanted to thank you for sharing with us that lovely, positive reflection, of your times' past.

And the many critical lessons you've learnt, that will no doubt hold you in good stead in preparation for any future demands, and adversity you may need to confront, today, tomorrow and in the future.

Thank you and take care...Sung Wu.

*But, jeez, now I feel like millionaire - so fortunate.*

Some good points there, Poirot. Life really is relative. It seems
that we need some hard times, to appreciate what we really have.

Take kids who are given everything. They then expect everything
and think they are hard done by. I've had kids tell me that they
suffer from child abuse, as mommy won't buy them a mobile phone!

We really should stop occasionally and appreciate what we have.
Like you, I feel that I am very fortunate.

Thinker 2, I get the feeling that you just suffer from "Grumpy
Old Man" syndrome.

I'm with Houelly & Poirot on this one. Yes perhaps things were a little better in the 60s for a young couple to get ahead, but only a little. I was lucky to be starting out then, but only if I stayed fit & healthy.

Compared to my parents we are now on easy street. There was very little chance for ordinary folk, born in the early decades of the 20Th century to ever attain home ownership, rent & food was about all they could afford, & there were no low start loans either.

Even if they had not had a couple of world wars, & a depression to contend with, it was no bed of roses.

They paid their own doctors, & hospital bills until medical insurance came along, & pensions were much lower. Anyone down on their luck had only a soup kitchen, & even then, only if they lived in the right places.

If anything we are a bit too kind to the bludgers & ne'er do wells today.

I shared your waif like status, Poirot, but only up until secondary school when the paper-round money kicked in.

"Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?"

Or typing into the internet ether. (either?)

But $7.95 for 32GB... really? Where?

Looking to the future? You betcha... it's still better than the alternative.

"And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you."

Hi, o sung wu and thank you for your post, and G R gets it, and Poirot I must say that I like you have my moments, and Houelle, I too agree about the analytical mind.

I don't believe I have ever suffered from depression, if I have, I probably quickly forgot about it when I went on to next thing. I've always kept myself busy. Music was a professional pursuit in my past and it still takes up a lot of my time (and my day job) despite that my wife of over 40 yrs still loves me I think.

So my own situation is pretty nice.

But and here it comes, my post was reaction born of discontent with the extreme and diabolical things occurring at both my own and my wife's workplaces simultaneously.
Completely different things but equally devastating to the persons' working there.

It's like Workchoices never went away Belly, employers are acting in my experience with impunity towards their staff these days in many different ways. I believe it's behaviour they (the employers) learned from Workchoices, and they liked it.

And I can't believe I'm saying this Rehctub, but I also mostly agree with you as well on this subject.

Thanks guys.

WmTrevor,

Yes, I didn't have a paper round but I did get a job after school when I was fifteen in the city in the evenings at a steak/coffee house - where I proceeded to become the world's worst waitress. Actually I much preferred being left in charge of the huge industrial dishwasher in the little room out the back where I could do my own thing and listen to Bohemian Rhapsody : )

Just on interesting times in childhood. I think my most memorable occasion (apart from waking up to a flat full of smoke and finding my day lying sound asleep on the half of the pillow that wasn't glowing red kapok) happened in the northwest when I was ten. Dad had secured us a caravan which we'd lived in for quite a while, and one day I came home from school and the caravan was gone and so was he. I was so shocked to see the empty space that I retraced my steps thinking I had somehow come down the wrong road. I hadn't of course, and I knew it, but that action seemed to delay the realisation. So that's about as abandoned as you can feel at ten. My belongings, my home and my dad just vanished - sort of strange as you can imagine. It's just as well I'm so charming. I needed all the charm I could muster to graft myself onto all the families that took me in whenever dad disappeared.

I often laugh occasionally when I'm called a snob on OLO - which seems to occur reasonably often.

I wonder how that happened?

That's "..finding my "dad" lying sound asleep....."

(I was a better waitress than I am an editor : )

one of the more happy topics
so much wisdom..regarding surving this living moment

lol
the future..isnt needing to be considerd..
by us with no hope of realising it..we just living in the moment..sadly that means awareness of too many things..not that happy

i too never been 'depressed'..but suspect thats just my base state[so compensate its just the cost of total awareness[of personal situation..and likely result..some vague future moment..when then the delusion lives in the reality of the now..

so thinker too i say to you
that any depression thoughts..you may hold towards..your imagined.. to morra..isnt depressing you enough today

its got no hope of getting to ya lol tomorra
we are too busy making this moment the best IT NOW*..can be..

so if ya up to ya neck in quicksand..relax ya head a while
or if its your head on the choping block..lean into the block..openup that ta0[path]..way of the choppers blade

nice clean quick..let each moment be used
to find a way to be comfortable..in the skin we are in..*now

rather think too much
than too little..ditto worry..but only when its happening..now

fearing tomorra ..isnt helping this moment
so i move on

Poirot,

<<That's "..finding my "dad" lying sound asleep....."
(I was a better waitress than I am an editor : )>>

No No No now you’ve gone and ruined the imagery.

Leave it as it was: “ apart from waking up to a flat full of smoke and finding my day lying sound asleep on the half of the pillow that wasn't glowing red kapok”

It has a very poetic, Prufrockian feel to it.

“Let us go then, you and I,
Leaving the day resting soundly
'pon half a kapock pillow;
Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
Our smoke filled retreats...

And, I’ve always seen you as a Prufrock like character.

"...on interesting times in childhood." Sometimes I wonder if in our decline into dottage reliving our childhoods is such a good idea? Assuming we're still capable of forming an idea, of course.

Daring to disturbe the universe is the game of life after we think we have finished with childhood games.

Snob, Poirot? Nah. Just folk who can't differentiate between charm and unctuousness because they confuse the two conditions in themselves - though mistaking their being unctuous for charm.

The pity of life can be that our most character building moments are the least deserved.

Well noted, SPQR : )

Certainly some superior imagery there.

WmTrevor,

I wonder, my childhood experiences are always there somewhere in the background - like a watermark.

But I find they mitigate some of life's more challenging occasions. And, as much as I endured a pretty hard time, I was really free as a bird. It was left to me to fashion my own sense of conduct and control - and although our lodgings were usually of the meanest kind, they were usually in the "better" suburbs which, although they provided a starker contrast between myself and my contemporaries, they also provided a pleasant backdrop to many episodes of my childhood.