http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/lid-lifted-on-nsw-black-box-20120923-26ewc.html
Many folk are confused at my instistance on hold my party to account for the knifing of Kevin Rudd.
Yet I too fear the very same thing in NSW indeed country wide, Liberals/National politics.
Power brokers.
A blot on politics and a damaging insult to us all.
We should fear power and wealth owning our politics.
The link? no gloating my ALP!
It is us every bit as much.
Light on the hill?
No longer our light it is just to gather us like moths to be used as required.

oh..come on mr bell you can do better
how about the purse virgins attacking toney
or the guy defending her being one of two not so foreigin affairs..and at the time of the marriage debate..missing out the two were married men

so much more if we could be honest ol mate
buty no..we cant sleep..so lets frame the word for the day

PUSSY RIOT*..reveals much of the games oiur leaders are playing

juliar AND KEVIE..have gifted TENS of million's BRIBING a seat on the securities boarde of thieves..who gift by bribe..igf kevin/juliar got it right..

but thats not bering talked about
\no lets gossip about..black boxes not red flags..and bribes

yet if your the wheat board...or selling plastic money to corrupt public servants..yeah mate wink nudge nudge..just dont go the juliar[who will meet with nutty nenmene mene endtime stooge nett ahem yahoo.

giving the clay goyahum her written instructions
script if you will..as the fix all to their faulse cures..goes to plan b

the black flag to steal more cash from juliar
army o geddon..you can lay a bet on..usually within 10 days of all getting briefed in briefs..yea i know you dont understand it..ignore it

everyone else does

Dear Belly,

The Westminster system is based on inaccountability. The people do not elect the prime minister. A small group of parliamentarians can get rid of a party leader. There is no separation of powers between the executive and legislative branches of government. Party discipline doesn't allow members to vote the wishes of their constituents, the prompting of their conscience or the good of Australia and the world. The Westminster system is basically undemocratic.

That is the way things are done in Australia. A small group replaced Rudd with Gillard, Nelson with Turnbull, Turnbull with Abbott, Hawke with Keating etc. The rot is not confined to libs or labs.

The rot is not in a particular party. The rot is the Westminster system.

If we read the link, OUG does not, it becomes clear, much of what Davidf says is truth.
Why do we sheep except it.
We if we are not talking about the weather,are firing arrows at politicians.
And so we should, in matters like this.
While it is both party,s,and both lots of voters, it tells me this clearly.
Our party,s are not ours.
We only need vote then retreat back to our hole, such things as accountability are not our business.
And SOME not even interested in the faults of the team,for it can be one eyed support just like a footy team, have less ideas about the whole subject than anyone.
This link OUG requires nothing but the greatest concern, it puts the view a whole party has been hijacked.

About time you started to get it?

"""
Why do we sheep except it.
"""

Because there's too many of "you" around. Add that with the ones that are too busy watching the football and we're "royally" screwed!

One one side we have the ALP which is historically influenced by Unions and has Left-Right factions.

One the other we have the Conservatives who are influenced by shady groups like the NSW Uglies and have been hijacked by both religious and big business groups and they have their own Wet and Dry factions.

Inbetween (or actually now to the left of both sides) are The Greens who, like the previous Democrats are a "none of the above" option who seems to be generally against more things than for them.

One side tries to change things - the other tries to consolidate the interests of their lobbyists by keeping things pretty much the same.

We get no real say in either case, it's just the way it is - both here and internationally. It's not a true democracy, it's a Representative Democracy.

More accurately, it's really just a Dumbocracy. Tou get the choice of "all or nothing" from either side and can't pick and choose specific policies.

As the late George Carlin once put it - "It's a Club - and you ain't in it".

No matter who's leading the Coalition, Nats, Labor, Greens or ANY party, one thing's for certain ....

Prepare yourselves ....

Yes it's true ....

Believe it or not ....

Here it is ....

"THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A MULTITUDE OF WHINGERS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LEADER".

Australia is full of whingers who think they have all the answers.

I take it for granted DiamondPete you include your self in that quote.
The link, read it, then comment.
Help too to re look at the polls, no good quoteing the parts you like but ignoring the ones you do not.
Gillard and Abbott have negative scores.
Both have near 60% who do not like them.
AND IF ONE GOES both do.
However this thread is about both party,s,in this case the Liberal right/Conservative section, even telling the Little swaggering Abbott not to dare interfere.

what ya think belly

https://twitter.com/KeiserReport/status/249556017564749824?uid=423028860&iid=bc01b612-0ca5-468e-954d-85f947f68cbb&nid=12+42+20120922

the block box
or the black dog?

Wobbles true.
Yet you a thinking poster should be as concerned as I am.
IF we let our biases, mine ALP, get in the way of being concerned,unless we are only concerned about the other side.
We fail most of all, our side.
The link reminds me, we Labor are, as hard a task as it looks now, going to again win back and hold NSW.
And Victoria/QLD.
Raw Mustard, who did you aim that at?
Do you not see?
Your views areas fixed as anyones.
I have targeted my side often, here I did that too.
But this link,it is still working, highlights a problem you should be concerned about.
Democratic rule should be the first requirement of any party.
I again say, why are Liberals/Nationals lips sealed in such matters here?
*And how dare they then EVER use the insult[ true] faceless men?*

Belly,

From my decades as a political spectator I've made the following conclusions -
Australians are fundamentally tribal, conservative and reactionary, are driven by self-interest and usually take the short-term view.

For all the talk of "long-term vision" and "political narrative" from our leaders it's what's in it for us now that matters most.

Politically our history is one of short-term reformist governments (usually ALP) amid long conservative periods where nothing much happens.

No matter that almost all socially progressive changes in this country have been introduced by the ALP but resisted by the Libs , memories are so short that people assume it's always been that way. Even current schemes like the NBN, disability support, parental leave and so on don't register with voters who only see them as electoral gimmicks. Like Menzies and his virulent resistance to the Snowy Scheme, he was able to claim credit for it when it was completed under his watch. There are a lot of infrastructure projects around with the wrong names on plaques.

Now we have an alternative government who get credit for a list of things it won’t do rather than a list it will do. Gillard is branded a liar but O’Farrell has broken over 100 promises and he just carries on unchallenged.

Like troubled teenagers we don't know what we want but we know what we don't want or whatever it is, I'm against it.

That’s the way it’s always been and nothing will change.

As far as the long-suffering voter goes, next time it will be a case of "same dog, different fleas" after a campaign like an episode of the X-Factor or some other sort of phony populism that drives our votes.

I'm just amazed at how worked up some people can get over it all.

Wobbles you confirm my thought you are well informed.
I am very much aware we differ at times.
A tendency to dream of better drives me, hence my open disgust with the knifing off Rudd, installation of Gillard a once lefty.
I think, deeply honestly while you have given a good description of voters, we can and should do better.
The faceless men insult, once was true, very much so.
It, as proven by the method and lack of informing the party why, axing of Rudd, proves it exists still.
I am CONVINCED ALP is the only party of real change/achievement to be proud of.
And in every case Liberals/Conservatives and their faithful cattle dog Nationals complain and try to stop it, then try to adobt it as their policy.
HOWEVER it is our she will be right mate, let some one else do it, that lets both sides sell us all out.
My biggest fear? as I said in last post such miss use of a whole party as shown in the link, always.
Leads to a rot that installs the other side, us, in power in time.
I FEAR we just walk in not bringing change or a better plan than the last time.
Constant improvement, from both sides is first wish.

Dear Belly,

You wrote: "I am CONVINCED ALP is the only party of real change/achievement to be proud of.
And in every case Liberals/Conservatives and their faithful cattle dog Nationals complain and try to stop it, then try to adobt it as their policy."

When you write 'in every case' all it takes is one exception to disprove your statement. I am an immigrant, and my knowledge of Australian history is gained through reading. However, I note the following.

Neville Bonner, a lib, was the first Aboriginal member of parliament. Malcolm Fraser, a lib, was our least racist prime minister. The racist White Australia policy was aupported by the Labor Party.

Economic Rationalism which contributed to the insecurity of the working man by turning regular jobs into temp or contract marked the leaderskip of Keating who returned from Indonesia proudly bearing a treaty signed with those butchers. Under Labor the Indonesian Kopassus Division reponsible for many atrocities was trained by Australians.

I think I had always given Labor preferences over the Libs when I have voted. However, I have no illusions that they are good. In recent times they are a stench, but the stench is not quite as bad as that of the Libs. They stink nevertheless.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/labor-has-lost-its-purpose-x2013-and-soul-20120925-26jjk.html
Davidf, first this link,every day, some times every hour, I charge my self because of my stand against the direction my party is taking.
Yet the link, from one of our very best, says much as I do.
I resent, every day, the fact power brokers claim to know what is best for the party,s they own, every party in this country.
I require better,for us all.
I and you will not be impressed, know, even in part agree with the reason we first gained factions.
Without center unity, Labors right, we would never have gained office, it exists,well did, to keep the very left from removing my party to the land no party is every elected from.
It however, too, put us here, on the edge of a nightmare.
David in 1975 Big Mal was no defender of the down trodden, his boots held us down, his kindness came years after he left Parliament.
But even Liberals still praise past Labor governments for achieving great change.
Sorry but in supporting the greens you look for a last sprint from a dead horse, anger? no mate reality, such a waste of the power that they held,and never will again.

Dear Belly,

Kevin Rudd called global warming, I don't remember his exact words, but it was something like the moral challenge of the age. Then he forgot about the moral challenge of the age. He seemed oblivious to the implications of a great many more Australians on a land with limited water supply and, for the most part, poor soil. The Greens are concerned with what happens to the environment much more than the lib-labs seem to be. That's the main reason I joined the Greens. We are destroying our life base.

The Greens are also concerned with militarism and living together with other nations by following international law. In the discussion of the boat people the only party that wants to observe the Refugee Convention are the Greens. The other parties differ on the best way of avoiding following international law.

I am a Green because they care about what I care about to a much greater degree than the lib-labs.

Sure, the Greens will probably continue to be rejected by most people. I personally see no alternative. The Labor Party is not going to care for the working man as it once did. They are simply a bunch of pols like Graham Richardson whose main aim is to get and keep power. The libs will continue to be a servant of the corporations. They are both stenches.

Will be away for a few weeks.

Belly, you are a good fellow, and I wish you well.

Belly, as you know I have been on about the "black box" syndrome that ruined the NSW Labor from Sussex Street for some years.

I had a faint hope that the Coalition would do what is right for Australia and not what is right for the individual self serving politician..........Hope for me went when out the window when O'Farrell began to govern.....This country and her people are orphans....we have no leaders and we have no benefactors.....we have an orphanage with 22 million uncared for residents.

Davidf Richo was once a power broker in our party, he left under a cloud but has the party in his blood and heart still.
Often his truths hurt, as mine do.
Sonofgloin, well no defense you are about right.
But too, in both party,s live good folk who mostly think alike.
So why do we let the powerful use us?
Tanner from my link, was one of our very best, he will remain so, forever.
As both party,s stagger toward a judgment day, it will come to both, we can hope for change.
In just less than six weeks America will reject ultra Conservatism.
Not long after Slippers case will re emerge, heads may roll then.
No certainty Abbott or Gillard will lead come election day.
We can be assured, until both sides manage to get heads in meetings , not branch stacking, our party,s will have Private property keep out signs on them.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/welcome-to-cesspit-another-town-sucked-into-the-political-machine-20120926-26lg0.html
A point that should not be ignored.
If this thread uncovered such from Labor, it does not try to avoid compassions, it would be viral by now.
The inner workings of NSW Liberals is some thing to be afraid of.

Davidf,
When it comes to politics and racism, you should remember that it was the Howard regime that ignored agreed convention and played the racist card for political gain.

He failed to challenge Hansonism, preferring to draw their supporters away by going even further and cashed in on growing anti-Muslim sentiment even before 911. He was the one who demonised the refugees themselves (before Rudd softened it to target the smugglers instead) and painted the post-Wik aboriginals as greedy landgrabbers. He was the one who publicly admitted he felt "uncomfortable" about seeing so many Asians on Sydney streets.

It was the Stopposition who let that particular genie out of the bottle and now neither party is able to stuff it back in.

It's true that both Parties are on the nose but it's pretty easy to see which one places it's own interests above those of the community.

rache it will not surprise me that you will differ with my view.
But the truth is we are extremely lucky J Howard lost the plot on gaining control of the senate.
He had always hated UNIONS but failed to understand his work choices targeted too, his middle ground voters he owned until then.
For he understood, yes he did, what voters wanted, and confronted with the worst of Labor,apart from Big Kim, he owned the lodge.
He knew, we all will soon, Islam-phobia is not rare, on both sides of politics, and matched by a similar feeling aimed at us and our culture.
I would have thought/hoped enough to be concerned with, for any one on any side of politics, exists in the links here.
In effect, the lack of interest is a sure sign we are not very interested in? good balanced politics.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/labor-given-a-hand-to-take-stock/story-e6frfku9-1226483286673
The thread, stunted as it is, was about the control of the NSW Branch of the Liberal party.
By its Right wing faction.
I never tried to hide, in fact the opposite, my ALP too has its owners.
But had no idea Lyndsey Tanner, a party great from our left, was about to agree.
This links talks about the re- building of the ALP.
But seemingly ignores the report we must not see, yet.
And the reason for our near death and maybe an impending one on election day.
I am unsure just what topic we want, we are getting away from deep debates, on deep subjects.
But in time we all will and must confront who owns and who controls our party,s.
I would travel great distances to see and be part of my party,s re building, but not to the front door to hear Gillard tell me I had won lotto.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/divisions-erupt-over-unions-purchase-of-luxury-mansion-20120927-26nzo.html
This link may well become a thread.
Not me, sickened by it I would not bother.
But my much loved trade union movement must.
It is another nail in the coffin of a once very proud movement.
Some Unions we would be better without, this is such a union.