It appears that some of the media are censoring or just deliberately not reporting the arrival of the boats. yesterday afternoon and overnight there were 2 boats with more than 140 people on board.
Maybe it is a little bit embarrassing that while the 3 Australian ministers are in Indonesia having talks Indonesia still can't seem to be able to find any of these boats before they leave.
Now I could be wrong but I would say 140 foreigners standing on a wharf then getting onto a fishing boat would rather stand out.
In 2006 Indonesia had 470,000 police there would be a lot more by now, so why can't they stop any of these boats?

Good point Philip, perhaps the only theory I can come up with is money. Are they (fhe police) being paid off.

Meanwhile, we have no doubt sent a well catered for support crew along for these TALKS and as usual, they will be just that, talks.

Perhaps this government should have been around in the early 1900's to say 1970's, cause at least then our Anzacs would not have been shot, nor our diggers from both world wars or our VN vets, cause all that would have happened was a lot of talk, no action.

At some point, someone must take the big stick approach, and as I say, what is the trigger for that, cause we simply can't keep throwing tax payers dollars at this and expect a resolution just by talking.

<< It appears that some of the media are censoring or just deliberately not reporting the arrival of the boats. yesterday afternoon and overnight there were 2 boats with more than 140 people on board. >>

But Philip, it’s not news any more. It’s old hat!!

We don’t really need to hear about every boat that is arriving while they are coming at such a rapid rate, do we?

Perhaps we should start hearing a bit of political truth each time a boat arrives, such as…..

‘Another example of Rudd’s incredibly stupid undermining of Howard’s border protection policy arrived today.

Gillard’s amazing inability to simply reassert Howard’s policies has led to 140 new arrivals, which makes up a total of …. for the month and …. for the year.

Thanks to this and the Greens’ extraordinarily policies of onshore asylum-seeker facilitation, this latest set of arrivals will cost the taxpayer an estimated x million$. And a total of X million$ for the year so far and XX million$ since Rudd blew our border-protection policy apart’

I think the Gillard Govt is putting pressure on the media.I've heard they have pressured the media over the Bruce Wilson AWU affair eg revoking licences etc.

Perhaps they are threatening to use John Howard'as Sedition Laws.These have been broadly framed to give advantage to the Govt.

Ludwig: But Philip, it’s not news any more. It’s old hat!!

You are right , it's old news. Too much saturation turns readers off. They'll wait for a while then it'll be headlines again. Sells papers.

Ludwig: this latest set of arrivals will cost the taxpayer an estimated x million$.

That's right. It's time to put a limit on how much Australia can afford to spend on Asylum Seekers.

Philip S: 3 Australian ministers are in Indonesia having talks Indonesia still can't seem to be able to find any of these boats before they leave.

The Indos don't want too. They know they are in transit so they don't hinder them. These people are illegal immigrants in their country & they don't want them there, so the sooner they leave the better. They don't want the problem Australia has with associated cost of looking after them.

Just think of the quality of Health Care, Schools, Infrastructure such as Road, Rail & water conservation Australia could have without this unwanted burden being thrust upon us. Maybe, just maybe we wouldn't bitch about politicians pay if they put a cap on Overseas Aid & Asylum spending. Oh! & bring the Navy back to within 200 K of the Mainland. I don't know why we are patrolling in Indo waters. Let them patrol their own waters.

Philip has a point regarding the skewed reporting from certain media organizations.

Every few months a journalist will resurrect the “Tampa” and “children overboard” beat up. Not one fatality from this event but it still rates a regular mention years down the track.

Under the Labor watch we regularly see women drown, children drown and men with life jackets survive and it gets one or two days in the spotlight, then the story is forgotten and buried, like the victims.

Regading Indonesia....stuff em.

One other thing is the story keeps changing the boat with 67 on it few weeks ago the captain said he was threatened to take them to Australia then it changed to he wasn't now today it has changed back to he was threatened, and what's worse is Quote
"Mr Clare says he is concerned by the behaviour and emphasises the 67 asylum seekers could be the first sent to Nauru or Papua New Guinea for offshore processing"
1) they should be charged with piracy as the Government said on the first day.
2) Why on earth would you want to process them they have displayed they are unworthy of being good Australians, send them home in handcuffs.

I have been saying for ages that Indonesia and Malaysia will not stop them like us they don't want them there BUT they are the problem because they let them into there country knowing full well they are not tourists who will go home after a holiday, they are DELIBERATELY UNDERMINING AUSTRALIA. They can stop most of them in 1 day by doing what Australia do via visa return ticket and vetting to see if they are tourists or not

A few years ago boat arrivals were so scarce that it made front page news. Now it is so common place that it is like the sun rising, and isn't going to sell papers.

Labor's great hope is that eventually incompetence will the accepted norm.

Con'T
The other most alarming detail is that everyone supposedly rescued by the navy are all bought to Australia even if the boat is 370 km outside our water and only 40 km from Indonesia all except for the last boat and apparently it was one of the navy people that offloaded them so he could go out to get more.
Anyone want to bet these talks in Indonesia did not specify that any rescued boat people will be returned to Indonesia as maritime law permits.
$4.6 Billion dollars this new solution is going to cost anyone also want to bet that figure soon doubles or triples.
If you look at a map these refugees are much closer to England, France and many other countries than they are to Australia why don't they go there.

This thread is a legend!
WHY.
Because it is wrong.
Every boat arrival is reported.
Unless you spend your days watching sesame street.

Here is more proof labor is not serious about stopping the boats.
The big campaign of Juliars (to persuade people not to get on boats) to be done in 5 countries only has a budget of $1.3 million dollars, that would not even allow you to produce and put on TV a 30 second advert. In less than 1 month we have had over 1,600 come a lot courtesy of our own Navy well done boys you are paid to stop an invasion not help it. JULIAR and Labor has to go after all you issue the orders to the navy.

Belly - Like usual you fail to read before you comment.
I wrote quote "some of the media are censoring or just deliberately not reporting the arrival of the boats"
I personally consider a story of national interest covered by a small regional radio station or newspaper THAT is not covered by mainstream media to have been censored or deliberately not reported.

This whole Boat People issue is a scam. The LMP won't let Labor have a solution & to be sure as hell Labor won't let the LMP have a solution. If they do then they will lose the next election. It's got nothing to do with Boat People or what's right, it's all to do with getting into Power or staying there. It's all just a big game that costing you & me, the economy & the Country.

Next time there's an Election refuse to vote for any one of the two major parties & the Greens. Then we might see things put right to some extent. Vote in Minor Parties. They will form a Coalition of Politicians who are willing to correct what's wrong with this Country. It'll save the Country a fortune in Political Pensions as well.

Phillip S excuse me for saying it but you are having your self on.
It seems to be a lifetime habit from your post history.
I again make my claim EVERY ARRIVAL IS REPORTED
If you can get away from the cartoon channel read ABC on line nine MSN, SMH.
Try sky news and then the locals you name.
But get it right you are no place near it yet.

Spoken like a true patriot Jayb,
John Hewson was on the wireless today saying much the same thing, we can't stand our politicians, we're voting for the least worst option instead of the best one, the Yanks can't stand Obama and Romney either, they're seen as equally despicable characters. I haven't cast a formal ballot since the end of the first Howard government, from that point on things just went rapidly down hill, my favourite saying nowadays is one that was painted on a wall in the West Melbourne rail yards during the Fraser era:
"DON'T VOTE,IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THEM!"

Belly - You presume too much, for you do not even know where I am and what media I can access. In some places all the media you mention are not available. EBBOM.

Sorry no intention to hurt your feelings.
You put your self out there in this thread.
You make many claims that are not even close to the truth.
You have quite firm views as I do.
Because you are here, telling me I am wrong let me tell you how I started this day.
Log on, read on line SMH NINE MSN, GOGGLE NEWS, follow every interesting link on line and free.
Then ABC,my local, two far away locals my holiday area
Two British papers.
I check first every time I log on major news feeds.
FREE!

Belly,

You are missing the point. If you look you will find the reports of the boats arriving, whereas 5 years ago, a boat arrival was front and centre of every major newspaper.

belly -
1) From time to time all Governments ask the media not to run stories which can be sensitive in nature or just plain embarrassing.
2) boat arrivals are probable the major embarrassment to this Government especially since they had 3 ministers in Indonesia having talks.
By embarrassment I mean voters become more disillusioned very time one comes. So it is in there interest to suppress the stories.
3) 2 boats that had over 140 people went largely unreported by Yahoo Australia and other media.
I posed a question about this, but if you read the original post you will see the main trust of it is with such a large enforcement arm can't the Indonesian stop many boats and pointing out that "140 foreigners standing on a wharf then getting onto a fishing boat would rather stand out." Also the embarrassment of the 2 boats arriving to the Government.
Why do you think America wants Assange so bad he showed them to be total hypocrites and blatant liars. Virtually all Governments would love 1 thing - no free press or media.

Misc it is now September 9th and not 1 refugee has been sent to live in a tent like Juliar said.

The opposite scenario could be true as well, if you were a government planning on turning back refugees or aiding the Indonesians in removing all illegal immigrants from their territory you probably wouldn't want the public to become used to and therefore accepting of boat arrivals, if it became normalised in people's minds and if they saw no obvious effects on their own community it'd be harder to promote strict border controls as an election issue.
What we are really discussing is whether the mainstream media is part of the state or not, most people would say that it is, that it's an arm of the modern state and that the state exists and self perpetuates regardless of personnel changes in parliament or the public service.
The media serves the state, the state is an entity unto itself which is steered by the managerial castes, elected and non elected.

Jay Of Melbourne - What you say is correct in that Governments to get compliance from media withdraw there access to ministers and media events in other words be nice or you will not get anymore stories. This does not always work for them but it is one of there tools.

Phillip S I have given you a list of promises made by various Governments over the years that have not come into fruition. In other words they told little white lies to get themselves elected.

You haven’t remarked to any of these. Why is that? You can have a full sentence here.

Do you think it's OK for Governments to deliberately lie to the people to achieve Government? (LNP not Labor, of course.) Note: Any more than, “Yes" or "No" is an excuse.

Other contributors. Please help me out here with Promises made in your area that have never be forthcoming. I'm sure you all have a list somewhere.

Jayb - Sorry I missed it but I have written on at least 3 different stories my thoughts on that subject which is as follows.
Any politician who lies to get elected should immediately be removed from office.
I have nothing but contempt for politicians who lie even to the point of saying the police should bring charges against them for " gaining advantage by deception " which is a criminal offense (but it won't happen who controls the police)
The last time was August 20th when this appeared in the media
" Labor backbencher Steve Gibbons has called for fines for journalists who publish misleading or incorrect stories." "the Member for Bendigo, told Parliament that people were losing faith in journalism and voiced concerns about the lack of accountability in the sector."

This person person obviously does not know the saying the pot calling the kettle black

Philip S: I have nothing but contempt for politicians who lie even to the point of saying the police should bring charges against them for " gaining advantage by deception.

So I take it that you will be voting for a minor Pary not the LNP, Labor or the Loony Greens next election. Am I right?

Still haven't remarked on the list I gave you. Why Not?

Jayb - Where is this list you say is for me?

Phillip S you must understand governments, a Labor one for sure, has no control over a free press to think other is to dream.
You and Shadow Minister could have made more hay, targeting the increasing daily arrivals.
INFORMED folk know every boat on or before arrival.
Post nonsense about conspiracy and it will be targeted.
This new system is not working-yet.
Hence we, and in time Abbott.s successor need Malaysian solution.

Belly - I have stated so many times on this forum why the Malaysian solution will not work, it is getting to the point I hope it comes in so I can finally say I was right and shut up a lot of people who do not understand the economics involved.

Philip S, my most sincere & humble apology. I was thinking about another forum when I posted that. Sorry.

I'd just come up from my shed. Those little self tappers do screw in tight don't they. It's OK I put the drill in reverse & backed it out. I screwed my finger to two sheets of metal. Nothing that a little Peroxide & Pawpaw ointment won't fix. |-0 Sure takes ya mind of sex.

Jayb - No probs, we all make mistakes at some time

Phillip s Sorry in no way have I seen evidence your opinion over rules every one else's.
The continued posting of totally wrong and half true themes is my evidence.
Shut us up?
Sorry thought this place was about open discussion.

Jayb,
I once saw a plasterer screw his hand to a piece of ceiling batten with a tek gun while back blocking a join, it happens, we had a devil of a job freeing him because he was at the top of a step ladder.
What was the list of minor parties, if you please?

Philip is another Butch, Julia was to talk to Malaysia in Russia, another day another place. We will need malaysia, Nauru will fill within days. I don't see why the boats will stop coming. On the other hand Malaysia has a definite outcome, and far better chance of being a boat stopper. Refugees are on the move around the world, and drowning in great numbers.

@ 579 [who continues to believe the Malaysian NON-solution will stop the flow --‘cause his party told him so]

We don’t need the Malaysian NON-solution
All we need is a little bit of resolution.

SAY NO TO OPPORTUNISTS MASQUERADING AS "ASYLUM SEEKERS".

J of M: What was the list of minor parties, if you please?

There's hundreds of them. Here's just a few of the top of my head.

Democratic Labor Party.
Katters Australian Party.
Australia First Party,
One Nation.
& even the Australian Sex Party, if you are so inclined.

Anyone except the two useless self serving bullies we have at the moment.

I would have thought that the most effective way of disrupting the people smugglers would be to follow the money trail. If these folk are being charged a minimum of $US5000 per passenger it should not be that hard to track the money trail, find out who bought the boat, who recruited the crew and who collects the fares.
Again, Indonesia needs to step up and show that they are interested in stemming the flow and it is their lack of commitment that is frustrating our efforts.

Back to the business in hand.

There is a lot of bitching on what will not work. The big question is. What will or might work?

Does anyone here have a suggestion that will or might work. Please don't say, "It's not my job." Just think of a possible solution, post it & we'll debate it.

Jayb To me it is easy.
1) MOST important take away the golden hand - They get what the refugees in Africa and Jordon get a tent and some food and water. That one alone will stop many.
2) No welfare for lifers you come you work.
3) No using the money they get to bring there relatives.
4) No documents no entry, first plane out.
5) No more Royal Australian Taxi service if you call the navy you go back to Indonesia
6) TPV that way when it is safe they go home.
7) Get rid of the bleeding heart Greens Hanson Young crying every time a boat sinks makes me puck.

Belly - You are like a broken record that is why I said what I said

Philip S:
1) MOST important take away the golden hand - They get what the refugees in Africa and Jordon get a tent and some food and water. That one alone will stop many.
2) No welfare for lifers you come you work. I agree.

Unfortunately we have to abide by the "UN Refugee Conventions & Protocols." Articles 20 to 27. The thing I take issue with is that Australia provides 1st.Class assistance instead of Basic which means it's costing a lot more than it really should.

3) No using the money they get to bring their relatives.

I agree, refugees sponsoring their relatives? Why is it allowed?

4) No documents no entry, first plane out.

Now Article 28 is a dusie. I says we have to provide refugees with papers if they haven’t got any. They then can travel back to their own country to arrange for their relatives to come out.

5) No more Royal Australian Taxi service if you call the navy you go back to Indonesia.

Unfortunately Indoneasia won't accept them back in most cases. They've got rid of them so they don't want them back. Australia should only be patrolling it's own 200 mile limit & Christmas Island should be on the no pick up list that was abandoned by Labor.
6) TPV that way when it is safe they go home.

Too bloody right. No automatic citizenship.

7) Get rid of the bleeding heart Greens Hanson Young crying every time a boat sinks makes me puck.

Agreed whole heartedly.

May I add an 8.

8) Any person travelling to Australia sign a form as part of their Visa that they will not claim Asylum when they arrive. Also tick a box on the Customs Declaration to the same end.

Yeah Jayb, I do have a suggestion that would work, close down the refugee program and pull out of the treaty, that would solve everyone's problems except the people whose fault all this is in the first place, the Colombo and Karachi regimes. No refugee intake, no refugees, no hope of asylum, no asylum seekers, a very simple solution that won't cost a cent.
Oh no! They'll all say "The eyes of the world are upon us!" well do you really think the opinions of anyone who matters will be altered? China, Japan and India won't care, the U.S will get over it, Indonesia and Malaysia will thank us, there is no down side for anyone except SERCO, Gillard, Abbott, Milne as well as the churches, NGO's and "refugee advocates" who profit from people smuggling and who really cares if they're put out anyway?
Nobody I know wants refugees here, even other people who came here as refugees themselves, ask an old European migrant from Broadmeadows or Springvale what they think of Afghans, Sudanese and Sri Lankans.

Jayb - I can't see why we can't give them a tent and some food and water when that is what others including the UN do.
point 5) our Government is the problem we go 370KM to get them when Indonesia can't go 48KM to find them

Jay Of Melbourne - I have continually said the real problem is Malaysia and Indonesia BECAUSE they let them in knowing full well that they are not tourists who will go home after a holiday, they will be on boats to . THEY are the problem.
To me it is a clever way to undermine a country. $4.6 BILLION dollars for the latest scheme.
I agree the refugee convention should go or be changed The UN even said most were economic refugees.
New Zealand said they were not welcome anymore I don't hear any country saying anything to them - Israel said they don't want them here is a Quote from Israel.
"We are determined to stop the flow of the infiltrators," Netanyahu said. "We have built a fence to achieve that goal ... and we will continue our efforts to return the infiltrators to their countries of origin."

This issue has to be dealt with now, non european migration is not only costly and dysgenic it will lead to very real social problems, Golden Dawn have already formed a crew here in Melbourne, this is what it's come to in Greece, this is what will happen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dhJntEn4ddA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XVFR3Scu-fM
Do you know why Golden Dawn get away with this sort of thing? Becaase they have Police, soldiers,prosecutors, judges and public servants on their side, everyone is fed up, the first video is CA propaganda, the second is for balance.

Philip S: point 5) our Government is the problem we go 370KM to get them when Indonesia can't go 48KM to find them

The problem is Christmas Island. It's ours, so there is a 200 mile wide area around it that we are responsible for. Indonesia is 194.38 Nautical Miles from Christmas Island. Within Indonesias Territory. Why isn't Indonesia patrolling this area as they have a larger Navy than ours anyway. Why, because they'll have to take responsibility for them. Once they leave Indonesia they are not responsible any more, That's why.

That's why Howards idea of Christmas Island, Ashmore Reef & a few other places were withdrawn from being our responsibility, Labor lifted that restriction. It must be brought back.

The Defence Force spending is not counted in the spending on Refugees. It's costing the Navy more than it costs to patrol the Gulf of Aden for pirates Geilgof saved with his Save the Children Fund.

Jayb - Nearly all the boats the navy has gone to were still in Indonesia's search and rescue zone, Indonesia just want them to come here it undermines our country. Our stupid Government had 3 ministers go and get permission so we could go into there zone to get them To me Labor only want to appear to be doing something without actually doing anything.
Also I will bet not 1 of them end up living in a tent as Juliar said they would.

I am impressed apparently 1500 tents have been set up now all they have to do is put people in them.
"A tent city is being constructed on Nauru to house up to 1,500 asylum seekers."
Now to stop them gaining access to the Australian legal system annex Christmas Island and Cocos Island.

Now I am unimpressed - Overnight the Royal Australian Taxi service picked up 80 more people off the coast of Java (which appears to be in Indonesian search and rescue zone) no guessing where they are being taken Australia.