'The something from nothing brigade are interested to
know where God came from?'

We are honest enough to call it faith (all but reasonable). The something from nothing brigade are dishonest enough to teach kids their fantasy is science. No wonder they come to all the wrong conclusions.

Runner, you are such a joy....

"The something from nothing brigade are dishonest enough to teach kids their fantasy is science. No wonder they come to all the wrong conclusions.

The thing is Runner, religion and science are some what in the same ball park.....One thinks and the other doesn’t:)....but this might help you:)

Few people actually realize that the ancient Greeks, who are regarded as the genuine first free thinkers of all time, actually HAD a religion…


And we should not forget that Christianity was first willingly adopted by the founders of Logic and true Science, the Greeks…


And let us not also forget that all the Greek manuscripts of Aristotle and Plato, the founders of “free” scientific thinking as regarded today, were saved from the passage of time by the Greek Orthodox Christians in the Byzantine Empire and the Islamists Arabs of the medieval times.
It is characteristic that the priest of modern atheism, Richard Dawkins, is a professor at the College of St. Mary! So much “war” is going on between religion and science, that religion has created a college for its greatest enemy to teach…

See!....Religion=WAR...Thy world will have to become 1 of two things.

All religious or all Atheism.....but in the mean time, science is winning hands down:)

Planet

To tell the truth folks I'm not really interested in religious arguments. I'm more interested in what affect a growing atheist group will have on the domestic politics of Gulf states.

I can't imagine young atheists willingly living under sharia law.

Dear Steven,

It is indeed an interesting phenomena to contemplate.

And the topic does follow on from your last thread on China.

There was a time in the US when religion was held somewhat apart from politics. Now it is very much a player. When religious groups decide to really get involved and use the lobbying tools and other political means afforded them by western democracy then they can wield enormous power.

In the gulf states, where often the religious heads are so entwined within the power structures of their nation, disaffection with the government can well mean that collateral damage to the predominate faith is inevitable.

Where religious power becomes so dangerous is when it is combined with strident nationalism, criticism of either becomes especially fraught as arguments against one implies denigration of the other.

Slightly north of the Gulf I am finding both Turkey and Egypt are fascinating to watch as their peoples wrestle with finding the place for each nation's religious parties and their influence. I also wonder what lessons they might take from Israel.

csteele wrote:

>>When religious groups decide to really get involved and use the lobbying tools and other political means afforded them by western democracy then they can wield enormous power.>>

Agreed.

>>Where religious power becomes so dangerous is when it is combined with strident nationalism>>

That is always the nightmare scenario. It seems to be happening in Russia.

>>I am finding both Turkey and Egypt are fascinating to watch as their peoples wrestle with finding the place for each nation's religious parties and their influence.>>

I think you are seeing a toxic combination of religion and nationalism in both countries.

>>I also wonder what lessons they might take from Israel.>>

Never give religion, any religion, too much power.

In fact it's a lesson most countries could learn from Israel.

In Australia the Christian churches are smart enough to let Islam do the running. Foolish Lefties bash so-called "Islamophobes" - ie people who express the view that contemporary Islam is evil. But once you outlaw "Islamophobia" we're back to blasphemy laws and the Christian churches are the main beneficiaries.

Muslims also seem to have succeeded in conflating "Islamophobia" with racism in the minds of airhead Lefties.

I am happy to say that in Israel there seems to be a growing backlash against the "ultra orthodox" or "haredim" as they are known.

If you want to contain the power of religion in Australia you need to fight against any religion claiming immunity from critique, analysis, satire and scorn.